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View Full Version : What Do I Do Wrong Here ??



Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 06:33 AM
hi. hope this is the appropriate place for this.

this was a game i played a while back and lost. i had the feeling throughout the game that i would at least get a draw, then i somehow i let the queenside pawns advance without applying sufficient pressure in the middle to neutralise those pawns and ultimately got my rook trapped on a8.

see what you think.

Event: FICS rated standard game
Site: FICS
GameBotGameNo: 5491196
White: lubitelche
Black: quentinfuller
WhiteElo: 1858
BlackElo: 1603
TimeControl: 600+12
Date: 2009.01.28
WhiteClock: 0:10:00.000
BlackClock: 0:10:00.000
ECO: C21
PlyCount: 83
Result: 1-0

1. e4 {[%emt 0.0]} e5 {[%emt 0.0]} 2. d4 {[%emt 2.218]} exd4 {[%emt 11.837]} 3. c3 {[%emt 1.125]} dxc3 {[%emt 1.902]} 4. Bc4 {[%emt 1.281]} Nc6 {[%emt 7.032]} 5. Nxc3 {[%emt 1.266]} Bc5 {[%emt 21.029]} 6. Nf3 {[%emt 2.812]} Nge7 {[%emt 12.444]} 7. O-O {[%emt 1.719]} O-O {[%emt 1.742]} 8. Bg5 {[%emt 9.343]} d6 {[%emt 12.702]} 9. Nd5 {[%emt 4.391]} Bg4 {[%emt 27.215]} 10. h3 {[%emt 7.906]} Bh5 {[%emt 9.68]} 11. Bb5 {[%emt 7.5]} f6 {[%emt 13.587]} 12. Bh4 {[%emt 15.859]} Bxf3 {[%emt 12.879]} 13. Qxf3 {[%emt 4.922]} Nxd5 {[%emt 2.242]} 14. exd5 {[%emt 8.813]} Ne5 {[%emt 10.562]} 15. Qf5 {[%emt 8.156]} c6 {[%emt 21.049]} 16. Bd3 {[%emt 26.297]} Nxd3 {[%emt 40.223]} 17. Qxd3 {[%emt 10.219]} Re8 {[%emt 5.293]} 18. Rfe1 {[%emt 11.813]} Qd7 {[%emt 6.002]} 19. Kh1 {[%emt 15.734]} Re5 {[%emt 14.636]} 20. dxc6 {[%emt 8.172]} bxc6 {[%emt 14.929]} 21. Bg3 {[%emt 1.641]} Rd5 {[%emt 33.122]} 22. Qc4 {[%emt 5.516]} Rb8 {[%emt 39.927]} 23. Rad1 {[%emt 12.344]} Rb4 {[%emt 18.145]} 24. Qc2 {[%emt 27.859]} Bd4 {[%emt 37.621]} 25. b3 {[%emt 22.515]} Be5 {[%emt 19.396]} 26. Rxd5 {[%emt 8.875]} cxd5 {[%emt 3.458]} 27. Bxe5 {[%emt 25.344]} dxe5 {[%emt 2.224]} 28. Qc5 {[%emt 1.531]} Rb5 {[%emt 14.054]} 29. Qc3 {[%emt 17.953]} d4 {[%emt 7.804]} 30. Qc4+ {[%emt 4.422]} Kh8 {[%emt 19.143]} 31. Rc1 {[%emt 6.094]} Rb8 {[%emt 16.586]} 32. b4 {[%emt 24.922]} d3 {[%emt 2.368]} 33. Rd1 {[%emt 2.203]} d2 {[%emt 10.568]} 34. Qc3 {[%emt 12.312]} Rd8 {[%emt 22.528]} 35. a4 {[%emt 6.0]} Qd4 {[%emt 27.654]} 36. Qc7 {[%emt 24.094]} a6 {[%emt 73.924]} 37. Qa5 {[%emt 10.578]} f5 {[%emt 26.322]} 38. b5 {[%emt 7.672]} axb5 {[%emt 8.442]} 39. axb5 {[%emt 3.032]} e4 {[%emt 36.74]}
40. b6 {[%emt 5.625]} Qd5 {[%emt 76.563]} 41. Qa7 {[%emt 34.594]} Ra8 {[%emt 18.106]} 42. b7 {[%emt 28.781]} {Black resigns} 1-0

Spiny Norman
30-03-2009, 07:24 AM
Try putting some line breaks in after every 10 moves ... if there is an unbroken string of moves that is too long, it seems to break the viewer sometimes.

1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 Nc6 5. Nxc3 Bc5 6. Nf3 Nge7 7. O-O O-O 8. Bg5 d6 9. Nd5 Bg4 10. h3 Bh5
11. Bb5 f6 12. Bh4 Bxf3 13. Qxf3 Nxd5 14. exd5 Ne5 15. Qf5 c6 16. Bd3 Nxd3 17. Qxd3 Re8 18. Rfe1 Qd7 19. Kh1 Re5 20. dxc6 bxc6
21. Bg3 Rd5 22. Qc4 Rb8 23. Rad1 Rb4 24. Qc2 Bd4 25. b3 Be5 26. Rxd5 cxd5 27. Bxe5 dxe5 28. Qc5 Rb5 29. Qc3 d4 30. Qc4 Kh8
31. Rc1 Rb8 32. b4 d3 33. Rd1 d2 34. Qc3 Rd8 35. a4 Qd4 36. Qc7 a6 37. Qa5 f5 38. b5 axb5 39. axb5 e4 40. b6 Qd5
41. Qa7 Ra8 42. b7 1-0

Igor_Goldenberg
30-03-2009, 08:25 AM
25...Be5 is inaccurate, as it lets the advantage slip away.
27.Bxe5 is a terrible move, delivering winning advantage to black.

Starting from move 35 I'd suggest for black to play 35...h6 to secure the king, then march pawn e with the assistance of f pawn without wasting too much time on queenside (white is not achivening anything anyway).
41...Ra8 is obviously a tactical oversight. I'd play 41...h6.
However, after 42.b7 Qd6 43.Rxd2 Qxd2 44.b8Q Rxb8 45.Qxb8+ it's close to a draw.

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 09:36 AM
25...Be5 is inaccurate, as it lets the advantage slip away.
27.Bxe5 is a terrible move, delivering winning advantage to black.

Starting from move 35 I'd suggest for black to play 35...h6 to secure the king, then march pawn e with the assistance of f pawn without wasting too much time on queenside (white is not achivening anything anyway).
41...Ra8 is obviously a tactical oversight. I'd play 41...h6.
However, after 42.b7 Qd6 43.Rxd2 Qxd2 44.b8Q Rxb8 45.Qxb8+ it's close to a draw.

thanks igor, appreciate the reply.

thanks also to snail avatar with distended right eye for help with viewer.
(sorry snail king but by line break, you mean simply pressing enter to create a clear line between say move 9 and move 10 ? i still cant get this thing to work.)


i definately think i should have pressed on with the central pawn push instead of worrying so much about the queenside.

Spiny Norman
30-03-2009, 10:08 AM
Yeah, sorry, that was I.T. speak ... press enter after about 10 moves worth ... so that the game continues on a new line ... do that again after the 20th move, and so on. That will fix it.

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 10:27 AM
sorry but im still not getting the pgn viewer to work.

the steps im taking involve -

# click on pgn uploader, copy pgn file from my hard drive.

# data appears in message with the game data enclosed with PGN /PGN in square brackets.

# press return key after every ten moves.

.....and i still keep getting the same result

SORRY DISREGARD THIS POST IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING NOW. thanks again .

Basil
30-03-2009, 10:29 AM
sorry but im still not getting the pgn viewer to work.

the steps im taking involve -

# click on pgn uploader, copy pgn file from my hard drive.

# data appears in message with the game data enclosed with .

# press return key after every ten moves.

.....and i still keep getting the same result

am i missing a step somewhere ?
Can you see Snail King's viewer?

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 10:34 AM
Can you see Snail King's viewer?

i seem to be able to see my pgn viewer post now, even though before i could definately see snail kings but not mine.

the only part of the pgn viewer i was able to see before was the blue bar with "pgn viewer" written on it.

probably just a case of my piece of rubbish computer not being bothered to load it properly.
(dont buy an acer laptop theyre cheap and nasty)

oh well, crisis solved. :D :D

Spiny Norman
30-03-2009, 10:49 AM
after editing, I find I need to exit the thread and then come back in again for the changes to be effective ... probably something to do with the Javascript PGN presentation software needing to reload something.

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 10:59 AM
i suspected as much (though it took a while for the penny to drop).

but honestly im still happier blaming my acer.
its nearly slower than my "ye olde" amiga 1200 was.

:D :D

Capablanca-Fan
30-03-2009, 12:04 PM
5... Bc5 is a bad mistake, because White could regain the P with great advantage with 6. Bxf7+ Kxf7 7. Qd5+.

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 12:55 PM
5... Bc5 is a bad mistake, because White could regain the P with great advantage with 6. Bxf7+ Kxf7 7. Qd5+.

yes, that certainly goes a long way to killing off my game.

i guess the more sedate bishop move to d6 was appropriate. is that what you would think is best even though it blocks the d pawn?

Capablanca-Fan
30-03-2009, 01:03 PM
i guess the more sedate bishop move to d6 was appropriate. is that what you would think is best even though it blocks the d pawn?
No, definitely not. You'll need those Q-side pieces. 5... Bb4 and swap for the N when White castles removes some attacking force, and 5... d6 and Be7 is also playable.

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 01:19 PM
No, definitely not. You'll need those Q-side pieces. 5... Bb4 and swap for the N when White castles removes some attacking force, and 5... d6 and Be7 is also playable.

if the purpose of curtailing the knights movement is now voided due to the king finding safety through castling, do we usually take this pinned piece immediately after castling or reassign the attacking piece creating the pin to a different task.

is there a general maxim to every situation when the pin is removed ?

Capablanca-Fan
30-03-2009, 01:25 PM
if the purpose of curtailing the knights movement is now voided due to the king finding safety through castling, do we usually take this pinned piece immediately after castling or reassign the attacking piece creating the pin to a different task.
The N could become a dangerous attacker with Nd5, so best to remove it once the pin is inoperative.

In this line, it is normal to play 4... cxb2 5. Bxb2 d5 6. Bxd5 and now I like 6... Bb4+ better than Nf6.


is there a general maxim to every situation when the pin is removed ?
I doubt there is a general maxim to any situation ;)

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 01:47 PM
The N could become a dangerous attacker with Nd5, so best to remove it once the pin is inoperative.

In this line, it is normal to play 4... cxb2 5. Bxb2 d5 6. Bxd5 and now I like 6... Bb4+ better than Nf6.


I doubt there is a general maxim to any situation ;)


i think with 4..cxb2 i was a little hesitant that by taking another pawn my piece development would suffer and made my decision to develop pieces instead.

(not that i found the right square for my bishop as you mention, due to the bxf7 maneuvre).

i think a good book on traps may go a long way to help eradicate oversights like the one you pointed out. could you recommend any books that might help me in that regard?

Capablanca-Fan
30-03-2009, 03:14 PM
i think with 4..cxb2 i was a little hesitant that by taking another pawn my piece development would suffer and made my decision to develop pieces instead.
But with two extra Ps, you can give back one and still be ahead.


i think a good book on traps may go a long way to help eradicate oversights like the one you pointed out. could you recommend any books that might help me in that regard?
Here's a page (http://www.geocities.com/LifeMasterAJ/chess_traps.html) that lists a few traps and recommends some books.

Redmond Barry
30-03-2009, 03:35 PM
thanks again for the help