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george
28-06-2004, 12:18 PM
Hello Chessplayers and administrators.

The three tournaments scheduled for Mt Buller have been cancelled - official confirmation from Chess Victoria came through late Friday.

The ACF Executive is meeting this Thursday evening and a full Council meeting is scheduled on July 12th.

On Friday morning after Executive meeting I will post more information but anything definitive cannot be assumed until after the Council Meeting on 12 July.

The three tournaments WILL be held the dates etc may be changed but they certainly will not be at Mt Buller. Chess Victoria will make a submission that will be addressed at these meetings.

Regards
George Howard
President ACF

jase
28-06-2004, 12:26 PM
Thanks for clarifying the rumours George.

There'll be a flurry of vitriol and finger pointing, and amidst that, good luck with rescheduling the events. It does seem that alternative arrangements are being made, and it's only mid-year so there is plenty of time to still make the tournament a success.

Rincewind
28-06-2004, 12:35 PM
Yeah, bummer of a situation but still time to hopefully get good outcomes.

I suppose the appearance of the OS GMs are now up in the air too. I wonder if anyone took up the "Sponsor a GM" scheme, and what this announcement means to them.

arosar
28-06-2004, 12:42 PM
Whew!! Lucky I hadn't made any reservations yet. What a joke?

Now what's that saying - "once bitten, twice shy"? Perfect for an editorial headline, eh Brian Jones??

And oh Kevo mate, calm down OK mate. Don't have a heart attack.

AR

samspade
28-06-2004, 12:45 PM
And no doubt the ACF will arrange for reimbursement for anyone left out of pocket by buying plane tickets that are now useless

jenni
28-06-2004, 12:49 PM
Whew!! Lucky I hadn't made any reservations yet. What a joke?

Now what's that saying - "once bitten, twice shy"? Perfect for an editorial headline, eh Brian Jones??

And oh Kevo mate, calm down OK mate. Don't have a heart attack.

AR

Fortunately the Benmore Lodge is happy to refund our money, so we have taken no loss.

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 12:49 PM
And no doubt the ACF will arrange for reimbursement for anyone left out of pocket by buying plane tickets that are now useless
if you booked through qantas, virginblue or an airline agency like harvey world travel or flight centre- you can get those tickets put on credit with them and then you can use them within a 12 month period. You will have to pay an admendment fee of about $30 though.

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 12:50 PM
Hello Chessplayers and administrators.

The three tournaments scheduled for Mt Buller have been cancelled - official confirmation from Chess Victoria came through late Friday.

The ACF Executive is meeting this Thursday evening and a full Council meeting is scheduled on July 12th.

On Friday morning after Executive meeting I will post more information but anything definitive cannot be assumed until after the Council Meeting on 12 July.

The three tournaments WILL be held the dates etc may be changed but they certainly will not be at Mt Buller. Chess Victoria will make a submission that will be addressed at these meetings.

Regards
George Howard
President ACF


i guess with this information, my recent email to David Cordover will go down well when he receives it :doh:

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 12:56 PM
i guess with this information, my recent email to David Cordover will go down well when he receives it :doh:
I would have thought that would have been obvious given starter's comments that fiirst brought this to light. :whistle:

samspade
28-06-2004, 01:19 PM
if you booked through qantas, virginblue or an airline agency like harvey world travel or flight centre- you can get those tickets put on credit with them and then you can use them within a 12 month period. You will have to pay an admendment fee of about $30 though.

Note I did not say that I booked tickets. If someone flies once in a blue moon credit on tickets dosn't help much. In anycase this is an allmighty disgrace and humiliation for ACF and very serious questions must be asked.

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 01:19 PM
I would have thought that would have been obvious given starter's comments that fiirst brought this to light. :whistle:
yeah i know, but still thought it would be best that someone actually contact David himself, Doesnt matter now :hmm:

arosar
28-06-2004, 01:30 PM
I have a special request to the moderators. Would you, gorgeous creatures you, allow us to use nasty words in here this thread - just for a bit and only in this thread? Would you, please, pretty please beautiful moderators?

Them posts would be sooo much more colourful you know.

AR

george
28-06-2004, 01:31 PM
to Samspade.

It is NOT a humiliation for ACF.
For others it may be an acute embarrassment.
It is most unfortunate but at the ACF Conference in Adelaide in January The ACF Council was assured both by the Organiser and the Representative from the Hotel Group that any repeat of the occurrence of a couple of years ago would not happen and the offer financially and in many ways was too good to pass up.

George Howard

Thunk
28-06-2004, 01:42 PM
I have a special request to the moderators. Would you, gorgeous creatures you, allow us to use nasty words in here this thread - just for a bit and only in this thread? Would you, please, pretty please beautiful moderators?

Them posts would be sooo much more colourful you know.

AR

mr arosar

with thosE words you sound likE gollEm.

with that avatar you look likE gollEm in thE dark.

just skip around a fEw rocks for us will you so wE can sEE your gait.


:classic: :cheeky: thE HUNK :cheeky: :classic:

jenni
28-06-2004, 01:49 PM
I have a special request to the moderators. Would you, gorgeous creatures you, allow us to use nasty words in here this thread - just for a bit and only in this thread? Would you, please, pretty please beautiful moderators?

Them posts would be sooo much more colourful you know.

ARIt's tempting :)

I have to admit the air around me turned blue when I opened a certain e-mail on Saturday morning and was informed of what was going on. Two minutes later when talking to Libby (who is always very ladylike), the air was positively sizzling. :eek:

samspade
28-06-2004, 01:51 PM
to Samspade.

It is NOT a humiliation for ACF.
For others it may be an acute embarrassment.
It is most unfortunate but at the ACF Conference in Adelaide in January The ACF Council was assured both by the Organiser and the Representative from the Hotel Group that any repeat of the occurrence of a couple of years ago would not happen and the offer financially and in many ways was too good to pass up.

George Howard

I agree ACF is not the main party at fault. However it is humiliating to ACF by association. Australian chess must look pretty ridiculous now to those GMs who were coming.

Here's another thought. Will Daryl get his appearance fee now?

george
28-06-2004, 01:53 PM
Hi Jenni,

Yes I am being very measured and polite and politic. Inside I am fuming at what has happened and will expect a full explanation at the appropriate time namely at the Exec and Council meetings coming up soon as I explained in my opening post.

George Howard

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 02:11 PM
interesting, as soon as news of the aussie open at mt buller goes belly up, look at all these ppl online :lol:

jenni
28-06-2004, 02:13 PM
Hi Jenni,

Yes I am being very measured and polite and politic. Inside I am fuming at what has happened and will expect a full explanation at the appropriate time namely at the Exec and Council meetings coming up soon as I explained in my opening post.

George Howard

I will be on Dunk Island on Thursday with my family. Will try and spare a thought for you, while I relax and watch the sunset with a glass of wine. :)

george
28-06-2004, 02:23 PM
Hi Jenni,

Well may you relax now little do you know I will be lobbying you to take on being President of ACF for the next two years - then we will see you somewhat less relaxed. Wouldnt it be exciting Jenni. Anyway chillout have a ball and have a glass of wine for me!!

Cheers
George Howard

PHAT
28-06-2004, 02:58 PM
Has there been a contract signed anywhere?
Has that contract been broken?
Can the ACF take Sum-Kun to the cleaners?

jenni
28-06-2004, 03:09 PM
Hi Jenni,

Well may you relax now little do you know I will be lobbying you to take on being President of ACF for the next two years - then we will see you somewhat less relaxed. Wouldnt it be exciting Jenni. Anyway chillout have a ball and have a glass of wine for me!!

Cheers
George Howard

Actually there was a bit of a "Jenni for President" push at Doeberl this year.

I have thought about it and (no false modesty here), I do not feel I am right for the job. As Shaun Press put it, I have a temper and I will get frustrated, spit the dummy and throw my toys out of the cot. :)

I think I am a competent administrator and have a fair bit of energy. I am at my best when given a few projects and left alone to get them done.

I do not feel I have the unifying skills necessary in such a position. However I am working on a couple of people for the position....

bobby1972
28-06-2004, 03:11 PM
hope is a rerequite for disappointment

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 03:11 PM
However I am working on a couple of people for the position....
name names ;) :lol:

Kevin Bonham
28-06-2004, 03:13 PM
And oh Kevo mate, calm down OK mate. Don't have a heart attack.

Funny you should say that when you were also asking for the right to use colourful language.

I like our President's choice of language on this one so far.

Let me say this. In the mid-80s the TCA put in a bid for either the Open or the Champs (not sure which) which collapsed because certain individuals had bitten off more than they could chew. Before my time but the TCA were still personae non grata in some ACF circles for several years afterwards, it was very embarrassing to us for ages. Now we have a big chess state pulling a bid for the Aus Open six months in twice in a row. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Are any other states bidding for the replacement event?

arosar
28-06-2004, 03:26 PM
name names ;) :lol:

You forgot to add the Registration mark. Mr Sweeney owns that you know.

AR

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 03:31 PM
yeah i know, but still thought it would be best that someone actually contact David himself, Doesnt matter now :hmm:
Didn't it occur to you that the ACF Executive might already be following this up.

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 03:33 PM
Didn't it occur to you that the ACF Executive might already be following this up.
well actually it didnt occur to me cause when i enquired, it wasnt certain at all from correspondence on here to me what was going on.

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 03:47 PM
well actually it didnt occur to me cause when i enquired, it wasnt certain at all from correspondence on here to me what was going on.
Yes but remember Wastell is not only the CV President but also the ACF Deputy President.
It would therefore follow that the ACF Executive knew about the problem as soon as it surfaced.

Anyway it will be interesting to see if the GURU bothers to respond to you. :whistle:

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 03:52 PM
Anyway it will be interesting to see if the GURU bothers to respond to you. :whistle:
with everything else going on as is now apparent, i somehow doubt it. I would like an answer of course, but i would be highly surprised to get an answer and even more surprised if it was a decent forthright answer :eek:

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 04:00 PM
well dont i look silly now, david just replied to my email saying that there have a been a few troubles and he will be able to give a definitive answer on july 12 when the acf meets.

JGB
28-06-2004, 04:05 PM
What can I say? Now I some how look like an idiot here :wall: ; I had invited a few mates (3 Gm's) to play in this tournament (even without sponsorship they were looking forward to coming). We had talked about it a lot I had spoken to the organisers of the tournament. I knew there was a problem with sponsoring GM's but I had heard nothing more and even last week Mikhail Ivanov called me and was asking about the cheapest flights to Australia and getting a visa?! Im looking stupid now and I was justing trying to help make the tournament a good one.

I heard a lot of people here complain about lack of communication with the organisers ?! dunno how much ill be helping out in the future. Maybe ill just be looking at who's organising the comp better in the future.


It's pretty sad new boys.

jenni
28-06-2004, 04:44 PM
It's pretty sad new boys.

Ahem.... I'm here too.

jenni
28-06-2004, 04:46 PM
What can I say? Now I some how look like an idiot here :wall: ; I had invited a few mates (3 Gm's) to play in this tournament (even without sponsorship they were looking forward to coming). We had talked about it a lot I had spoken to the organisers of the tournament. I knew there was a problem with sponsoring GM's but I had heard nothing more and even last week Mikhail Ivanov called me and was asking about the cheapest flights to Australia and getting a visa?! Im looking stupid now and I was justing trying to help make the tournament a good one.

I heard a lot of people here complain about lack of communication with the organisers ?! dunno how much ill be helping out in the future. Maybe ill just be looking at who's organising the comp better in the future.


It's pretty sad new boys.

We're all feeling more than a bit foolish.

However don't give up on it - it is going to happen - it will be in January, just in another part of Australia. To be quite honest Mt Buller wouldn't be the most exciting place for chess tourists. Let's keep our fingers crossed that the new venue is even better.

arosar
28-06-2004, 05:00 PM
Let's keep our fingers crossed that the new venue is even better.

Box Hill perhaps?

AR

PHAT
28-06-2004, 05:08 PM
Didn't it occur to you that the ACF Executive might already be following this up.

Well, the ACF had better be pretty good at following things up - after all, it cannot lead.

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 05:25 PM
Well, the ACF had better be pretty good at following things up - after all, it cannot lead.
This is rich coming from someone who is so full of hot air but light on action.

JGB
28-06-2004, 05:29 PM
Ahem.... I'm here too.

I beg my pardon. :)

PHAT
28-06-2004, 05:52 PM
This is rich coming from someone who is so full of hot air but light on action.

"... light on action" ? I s'pose the Common Man was run by fairies. If you feel the necessity to put schit on doers, you should just keep you gob shut.

Garvinator
28-06-2004, 05:53 PM
you should just keep you gob shut.
how about both of you follow this advice if you want to go tit for tat :(

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 06:31 PM
how about both of you follow this advice if you want to go tit for tat :(
Matt's big on criticising ACF and state officials but as a NSWCA Council he contributed nothing.

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 06:33 PM
"... light on action" ? I s'pose the Common Man was run by fairies. If you feel the necessity to put schit on doers, you should just keep you gob shut.
It may as well have been run by fairies as a turn out of 16 players is nothing to crow about.

Alan Shore
28-06-2004, 07:57 PM
It may as well have been run by fairies as a turn out of 16 players is nothing to crow about.

He had a good go.. and I don't think the NSWCA President should be discouraging people from holding tournaments.

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 08:03 PM
He had a good go.. and I don't think the NSWCA President should be discouraging people from holding tournaments.
Firstly I am not discouraging him from holding the tournament, I'm simply saying his turn out was woeful.

Secondly Matt is into criticising everyone else involved in chess at the State or National level so what goes around comes around.

He couldnt even get most members from his own club to attend.

eclectic
28-06-2004, 08:30 PM
Firstly I am not discouraging him from holding the tournament, I'm simply saying his turn out was woeful.

Secondly Matt is into criticising everyone else involved in chess at the State or National level so what goes around comes around.

He couldnt even get most members from his own club to attend.

I reckon this is a ruse orchestrated by Bill and Matt to give the impression that the NSWCA is so disorganised they can be discounted as rival bidders for an alternative Australian Open venue ...

when perhaps actually ...

:lol: :hmm: :whistle:

eclectic

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 08:39 PM
I reckon this is a ruse orchestrated by Bill and Matt to give the impression that the NSWCA is so disorganised they can be discounted as rival bidders for an alternative Australian Open venue ...
Firstly the NSWCA is organised.
Secondly Matt no longer has any involvement with the NSWCA(some would argue he never did) having been removed from the Council.
Thirdly you would have to be mad to suggest there would be any colussion between Matt and me. :hand:

Finally it should be noted that the last Australian Open organised by the NSWCA and Brian Jones was a success. An Australian Open organised at short notice after the failure of the previous Mt. Buller bid.

PHAT
28-06-2004, 09:29 PM
...having been removed from the Council.


and replaced with ... :lol:

Bill Gletsos
28-06-2004, 10:35 PM
and replaced with ... :lol:
Well you did nothing anyway so not having one at the moment makes no difference.

Kevin Bonham
29-06-2004, 12:13 AM
Finally it should be noted that the last Australian Open organised by the NSWCA and Brian Jones was a success. An Australian Open organised at short notice after the failure of the previous Mt. Buller bid.

And an Australian Open which Brian wore quite a deal of flak over in advance of the event - but, I noticed, very little after.

I think the motorsport adage "when the flag drops, the BS stops" applies to the calibre of chess events too, in both directions. Events get praised to the skies then collapse while others cop all manner of abuse and are successes.

jase
29-06-2004, 12:19 AM
I've asked this question before to Bill in a different thread, and don't recall any attempt at an answer [I may of course have overlooked the answer!]:

On what grounds was that Australian Open [that is, the one organised by Brian] a success?

I'm asking a specific question whilst hitting at the wider philosophy of what constitutes a successful chess tournament.

However since Bill has repeatedly sung the praises of the event in question, it should not be difficult to elicit a straight answer.

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 12:34 AM
I've asked this question before to Bill in a different thread, and don't recall any attempt at an answer [I may of course have overlooked the answer!]:

On what grounds was that Australian Open [that is, the one organised by Brian] a success?

I'm asking a specific question whilst hitting at the wider philosophy of what constitutes a successfuk chess tournament.

However since Bill has repeatedly sung the praises of the event in question, it should not be difficult to elicit a straight answer.
It was well attended, most people who played in it were happy and unlike many others did not run at a loss.

Or like Peter Parr will you criticise it for running at a profit.

arosar
29-06-2004, 09:14 AM
It was a success in that it was well-managed and got up on short lead-time. Being a chess tourist - it lacked the appeal of other tourns I've attended interstate. That the tourn was out in the back of bloody Woop Woop with temperatures like you're in the middle of a godda.mn desert were the minuses.

AR

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 09:42 AM
It was a success in that it was well-managed and got up on short lead-time. Being a chess tourist - it lacked the appeal of other tourns I've attended interstate. That the tourn was out in the back of bloody Woop Woop with temperatures like you're in the middle of a godda.mn desert were the minuses.
Penrith isnt the back of Woop Woop.
Also you were not playing in the open but in an airconditioned environment therefore the outdoor temps are irrelevant.

Brian_Jones
29-06-2004, 10:27 AM
Would you prefer Parramatta next time Amiel?
Cos I sure as hell don't want to organise one in Sydney CBD or Bankstown!

Rincewind
29-06-2004, 10:35 AM
Penrith isnt the back of Woop Woop.
Also you were not playing in the open but in an airconditioned environment therefore the outdoor temps are irrelevant.

That's right, Penrith is the gateway to the Blue Mountains and I think out of towners with a mind to go sight-seeing could well have taken advantage of the locale.

bobby1972
29-06-2004, 10:58 AM
it was a great turny penrith

Kevin Bonham
29-06-2004, 12:47 PM
It was well attended, most people who played in it were happy and unlike many others did not run at a loss.

My answer is along the same lines. It was very well attended for an event run at such short notice, and despite all the complaints about the prize pool and so on before the event, the feedback after the event was positive.

That said, I wasn't actually there.

PHAT
29-06-2004, 04:03 PM
Penrith was a normal averge event - ie I enjoyed it. However, Penrith is too close the NSW centre of population (sydney) to be made into a holiday, yet too far to be a comfortable drive to/from each day. Geographically, Penrith sux.

EDIT PS. Did JP Wallace ever get a trophy for his Open win?

arosar
29-06-2004, 04:13 PM
And another question - a general one. If company X gives money to the event, how should that money be spent? Would you say that it is more correct and proper to allocate that money to prizes?

AR

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 04:23 PM
And another question - a general one. If company X gives money to the event, how should that money be spent? Would you say that it is more correct and proper to allocate that money to prizes?
This was debated at length on the old ACF BB.
Obviously those in the Parr camp will find fault with the event.

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 04:26 PM
Penrith was a normal averge event - ie I enjoyed it. However, Penrith is too close the NSW centre of population (sydney) to be made into a holiday, yet too far to be a comfortable drive to/from each day.
It isnt that far of a drive from Sydney.
Out of staters and out of towners could stay at the venue.


Geographically, Penrith sux.
Sounds like anti westie bias to me.


EDIT PS. Did JP Wallace ever get a trophy for his Open win?
A trophy was purchased and engraved.

arosar
29-06-2004, 04:34 PM
Jesus Christ Bill. Talking to you is like talking to a mormon elder with a hard-on.

What would happen if we all got up and bolted. Prolly end up bloody arguing with yourself.

Bill: Where's everyone?

Bill: Thanks to you and your argumentative behaviour, they pisse.d off.

Bill: Clearly, that's not true.

Bill: It is you goose.

Bill: Shut up and stop annoying me!

Then a third Bill pipes in, ala gray:

Bill: Why don't you two shut up then?

AR

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 04:40 PM
Jesus Christ Bill. Talking to you is like talking to a mormon elder with a hard-on.
Nice try AR, but your post was just an attempt to stir up previous arguments regarding the Open at Penrith.


What would happen if we all got up and bolted. Prolly end up bloody arguing with yourself.

Bill: Where's everyone?

Bill: Thanks to you and your argumentative behaviour, they pisse.d off.

Bill: Clearly, that's not true.

Bill: It is you goose.

Bill: Shut up and stop annoying me!

Then a third Bill pipes in, ala gray:

Bill: Why don't you two shut up then?
Ha ha, however in my opinion you are the one who is more likely to be talking to yourself.

ursogr8
29-06-2004, 04:43 PM
And another question - a general one. If company X gives money to the event, how should that money be spent? Would you say that it is more correct and proper to allocate that money to prizes?

AR

A question for you AR.

How would you feel about an event where the total prize fund was $10,000, and three tied for the title.
And because of lack of funds for the playoff it didn't happen for a long while.
What if then the offer from a new promoter was $25,000 for the playoff; $12,000 going to the players (who have already had a share of the $10,000) and $13,000 going to the costs of promotion and the promoter?

starter

Rincewind
29-06-2004, 04:46 PM
How would you feel about an event where the total prize fund was $10,000, and three tied for the title.
And because of lack of funds for the playoff it didn't happen for a long while.
What if then the offer from a new promoter was $25,000 for the playoff; $12,000 going to the players (who have already had a share of the $10,000) and $13,000 going to the costs of promotion and the promoter?

I'd blame the original organisers for not having adequately accounted for the possibility of a playoff as an integral part of the first event.

arosar
29-06-2004, 04:54 PM
. . . $12,000 going to the players (who have already had a share of the $10,000) and $13,000 going to the costs of promotion and the promoter?

Well I reckon somebody's done the shifty on youse mate. Unless you got them hooters on skates in the promo, no chess play-off in this country's gonna cost $13K - just for "promotion".

AR

Ian Rout
29-06-2004, 05:08 PM
I'd blame the original organisers for not having adequately accounted for the possibility of a playoff as an integral part of the first event.
Perhaps not quite that simple - what if the Adelaide organisers had put money aside and then didn't need it. Maybe ACF could set up a contingency fund which each event pays into and is drawn on when required.

PS: When is Kevin going to move the Matthewandbill interchanges to the flame sequence?

Rincewind
29-06-2004, 05:21 PM
Perhaps not quite that simple - what if the Adelaide organisers had put money aside and then didn't need it. Maybe ACF could set up a contingency fund which each event pays into and is drawn on when required.

Things rarely are as simple as they first appear. However, I think a set protocol with definite time frames, etc should be a part of organising the original event. That way players have already agreed to certain playoff conditions prior to the first event and the exposure to grandstanding is minimised.


PS: When is Kevin going to move the Matthewandbill interchanges to the flame sequence?

I like this idea of a playoff sinking fund for Australian title events. Worth suggesting to the ACF council although the agenda of the next meeting is probably already full with other business. :) :hmm: :(

Brian_Jones
29-06-2004, 05:29 PM
With $10,000 sponsorship you could:

1. Allocate it to the top prizes (what the top players want)

2. Allocate it across the board (what a Common man like Matt might want)

3. Give to the overseas players (what some spectators might want)

4. Make it a prestige event with publicity (what the sponsors want)

I vote for 4, but maybe some would rather have no sponsorship at all?

eclectic
29-06-2004, 05:46 PM
I like this idea of a playoff sinking fund for Australian title events. Worth suggesting to the ACF council although the agenda of the next meeting is probably already full with other business. :) :hmm: :(


I would like the first condition for playoffs to be that they are played immediately after at the venue / city where the original event is held and not eighteen months later on some remote tropical island.

I can't actually see why we can't have co-champions anyway and be done with it like we have had with the australian open on certain occasions.

Would anyone here be interested in the idea of having those in a tiebreak pooling their prize fund ie 1st prize + 2nd prize etc with the winner taking everything.

A playoff contingency (sinking?) fund ... yes ... now how is the present olympiad appeal coming on ?

:whistle:

eclectic

auriga
29-06-2004, 06:28 PM
Penrith was a normal averge event - ie I enjoyed it. However, Penrith is too close the NSW centre of population (sydney) to be made into a holiday, yet too far to be a comfortable drive to/from each day. Geographically, Penrith sux.

EDIT PS. Did JP Wallace ever get a trophy for his Open win?

penrith is not so bad.
panthers is also a great venue.
maybe paramatta would be even better though (ie. more central).

PHAT
29-06-2004, 06:48 PM
With $10,000 sponsorship you could:

1. Allocate it to the top prizes (what the top players want)

2. Allocate it across the board (what a Common man like Matt might want)

3. Give to the overseas players (what some spectators might want)

4. Make it a prestige event with publicity (what the sponsors want)

I vote for 4, but maybe some would rather have no sponsorship at all?

Actually, it is not quite that simple. I would agree, however, that #4 must take the lion's share. #1, #2 and #3 can pick up "enough" that the event can actually become prestigous.

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 07:01 PM
I would like the first condition for playoffs to be that they are played immediately after at the venue / city where the original event is held and not eighteen months later on some remote tropical island.
Having it played immediately is often neither practical nor feasible.


I can't actually see why we can't have co-champions anyway and be done with it like we have had with the australian open on certain occasions.
Actually I think the only circumstances where this has occurred is when they were tied at the end of the playoff.


Would anyone here be interested in the idea of having those in a tiebreak pooling their prize fund ie 1st prize + 2nd prize etc with the winner taking everything.
When their is a tie the original prize money is pooled (1st & 2nd assuming only 2 tie) and is split 50-50. In the play-off they are playing for the title plus any additional prize money over and above the original amount.

Rincewind
29-06-2004, 07:20 PM
I would like the first condition for playoffs to be that they are played immediately after at the venue / city where the original event is held and not eighteen months later on some remote tropical island.

Immediately following a two week event at the same location is usually not feasible. However, a 18 month hiatus and vastly removed venue (from the home base of both players) is also usually undesirable.

I think there should be a middle path between these two extremes set down as a part of the conditions of the original event. Of course these conditions need to be flexible enough as to not discourage participation in said event.

Kevin Bonham
29-06-2004, 08:27 PM
PS: When is Kevin going to move the Matthewandbill interchanges to the flame sequence?

Unfortunately there still seems to be some chess content there. When they both manage to stay completely offtopic for a few rounds in a row I'll start moving it.

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 08:54 PM
Unfortunately there still seems to be some chess content there. When they both manage to stay completely offtopic for a few rounds in a row I'll start moving it.
I'm sure I can manage to keep some chess content in there somewhere. ;)

PHAT
29-06-2004, 09:07 PM
When their is a tie the original prize money is pooled (1st & 2nd assuming only 2 tie) and is split 50-50. In the play-off they are playing for the title plus any additional prize money over and above the original amount.

"Terry my son, this could be a right little earner."

ursogr8
29-06-2004, 09:51 PM
I'd blame the original organisers for not having adequately accounted for the possibility of a playoff as an integral part of the first event.

Baz

This is not the answer I was looking for, because I think you have misread the question.

But never mind, you have provoked some good follow-on ideas from other posters.

You could be a 'starter' after you have finished with 'moderator'.

(the real) starter

ursogr8
29-06-2004, 09:56 PM
Well I reckon somebody's done the shifty on youse mate. Unless you got them hooters on skates in the promo, no chess play-off in this country's gonna cost $13K - just for "promotion".

AR

Well not really addessing the question Amiel, me mate.

Let me be more specific.
If the deal offered to you as ACF President is
OPTION A > No playoff in the forseeable future
OPTION B >> A new $25,000 from a brand new sponsor, of which the broker/promoter takes $13,000 for promotion and his fee.

Which do you choose, as ACF President?

starter

auriga
29-06-2004, 10:30 PM
guys, no need to panic!!
i've found an alternative venue for the mt buller tournaments.

it's just past penrith but i'm sure it should meet up
to the high standard of all chess players.

arosar, mate, it even has a swimming pool!!

i've attached some screen shots to whet your appetite...

Garvinator
29-06-2004, 10:51 PM
why this push for a place near penrith when there are other states that might be interested?

Rincewind
29-06-2004, 11:15 PM
why this push for a place near penrith when there are other states that might be interested?

I didn't think Tripoli was near Penrith :lol:

Seriously though. There is no push for Penrith just some score settling on the last Open which was at Penrith.

eclectic
29-06-2004, 11:25 PM
why this push for a place near penrith when there are other states that might be interested?

I suspect that Chess Victoria will have until the full ACF meeting in mid July to come up with alternative arrangements or else be obliged to relinquish the rights to stage the event.

I would not be surprised at all if the Open ended up being held at the Melbourne Town Hall.

eclectic

Garvinator
29-06-2004, 11:27 PM
I didn't think Tripoli was near Penrith :lol:

i was so hoping to google search and find a city called penrith in libya, but no such luck
:lol: :doh:


Seriously though. There is no push for Penrith just some score settling on the last Open which was at Penrith yeah i know, just thought it would be a good idea to state that other states might be interested :)

Garvinator
29-06-2004, 11:28 PM
I would not be surprised at all if the Open ended up being held at the Melbourne Town Hall.

eclectic
works for me, easier to get to than mt buller from brisbane :D

Bill Gletsos
29-06-2004, 11:29 PM
I suspect that Chess Victoria will have until the full ACF meeting in mid July to come up with alternative arrangements or else be obliged to relinquish the rights to stage the event.
Their offer that was accepted was to hold it at Mt. Buller.
Since that is now impossible I would suspect the ACF Council would call for bids from all states.
CV could re-bid with a different venue.

ursogr8
30-06-2004, 08:00 AM
Their offer that was accepted was to hold it at Mt. Buller.
Since that is now impossible I would suspect the ACF Council would call for bids from all states.
CV could re-bid with a different venue.

Bill
Is that exacly correct?
On the Aus. in Mt Buller thread I posted #155 >>



I understand the GURU is arguing that he has the baton and just because the orchestra will probably play at another venue it doesn't represent a change in promoter.

May need to look at the fine-print of the ACF motion of acceptance.

Did it say "Over to you GURU, and it would be nice at that time of year at Mt Buller"?
Or did it say "GURU's promotion is accepted provided we ski on the grass at Buller"?

starter

Are you able to comment?

starter

ursogr8
30-06-2004, 08:08 AM
I suspect that Chess Victoria will have until the full ACF meeting in mid July to come up with alternative arrangements or else be obliged to relinquish the rights to stage the event.

I would not be surprised at all if the Open ended up being held at the Melbourne Town Hall.

eclectic

hi eclectic

You are not counting your Black Opals before they are seeded are you? ;)

starter

Kerry Stead
30-06-2004, 12:49 PM
As a general observation, it is a shame that the Mount Buller bid has gone under. I thought that the initial idea, or at least how it was presented at the ACF National Conference in Adelaide at the start of the year, was that there would be an ongoing relationship with Mercure, with (at least potentially), the Australian Open touring the country at Mercure hotels ... I'm guessing this is no longer the case.
It will be interesting to see what Chess Victoria have 'in the works' for both the Open and the Junior.
Perhaps as a general provision, would it be having the playoff for the Australian Championship (if needed) in conjunction with the Doeberl Cup? Its a 4 day long weekend, so there's time for a 4 game match. Most of the top players in the country play in the tournament as it is, so the chances are that any potential playoff participants would already be planning to go to Canberra over Easter. The only difficult bits are to do with funding and prizemoney - after all the Doeberl Cup has a carrot of around $2000 on offer for the winner. You would also need to placate the Canberra organisers, as although they would have 2 of the country's best players AT the tournament, they are in effect playing in a separate event rather than the Doeberl Cup itself. To my mind this seems like one of the easier solutions to any potential problem that might arise.
Although the last playoff match between Johansen and Speck was excellently organised and run by Graeme Gardiner, the delay between the tournament and the playoff was a bit problematic. I suppose it all comes down to what you want to prioritise in a chess tournament ... as Brian has asked.
One thing you should all be aware of as far as getting a venue for such an event is concerned ... its not as easy as it might sound. Think about the type of venues that chess players would be after. Typically they are used for one-day business seminars, where you might get 200 people to, all paying around $50/head. Do the figures, and multiply that by around 10-15 (given that the Open/Championship needs around 2 weeks to be held). That adds up to a lot of expense ... and that's before you have accounted for other expenses like DOP fees, rating fees, etc ...

jeffrei
30-06-2004, 01:14 PM
I reckon Kerry's suggestion is a definite improvement over the current situation. However, I think we should recognize that finding the top chessplayer in Australia is just ONE objective of the Australian Championship. If it were our only objective, weíd play it as a 32-player round-robin instead of a 32-player Swiss. At some point measures which improve the reliability of the tournament (in its goal of awarding the title to the best player there) become sufficiently time-consuming/boring/expensive that itís not worth the effort. As far as Iím concerned the whole idea of having a long-form playoff already oversteps the bounds on all three of these respects.

So how about this for a scenario when the 2008 Australian Championship is tied between Raymond Song and Moulthun Ly: The arbiters produce two laptops and the players proceed to have a 3-game playoff match of 4 2 blitz on ICC or FICS or playchess or whatever. True, this doesnít prove much about the respective strengths of the two players (any more than a penalty shoot-out proves much about the respective strengths of two soccer teams), but the tournament itself has already suggested that theyíre reasonably close. And, like a penalty shoot-out in soccer, itís a practical solution thatís fun for the spectators!

Bill Gletsos
30-06-2004, 01:28 PM
Bill
Is that exacly correct?
On the Aus. in Mt Buller thread I posted #155 >>


Are you able to comment?

starter
The ACF gave the events to CV, not the GURU.
Also the events were given specifically for Mt. Buller.
As such the ACF has every right to ask for new bids.

Lucena
30-06-2004, 01:29 PM
Jesus Christ Bill. Talking to you is like talking to a mormon elder with a hard-on. :eek: :eek: :eek:

george
30-06-2004, 02:05 PM
Hi All,

It will be a most interesting Executive meeting and I believe rather a long Council Meeting as there are many other important chess matters to discuss not just the Open,Juniors and Schools.

So please Councillors and Exec members get yourselves ready with beverages etc for what could be a marathon teleconference on 12th July.

Regards to ALL
George Howard
President ACF

Lucena
30-06-2004, 02:12 PM
Finally it should be noted that the last Australian Open organised by the NSWCA and Brian Jones was a success. An Australian Open organised at short notice after the failure of the previous Mt. Buller bid.

You mean this has happenened BEFORE? :wow:

george
30-06-2004, 02:14 PM
Hello to ALL,

Sorry I forgot to mention this in the last post - David Cordover has assured me that if anyone has incurred any financial loss which cannot be recovered e.g booking fees,through whatever means because of the cancellation of the three events at Mt Buller to call him and he will negotiate a refund.

If I have misrepresented David's offer I apologise but I believe this is a correct recollection of a telephone conversation I had with David yesterday.

Kindest Reards to ALL
George Howard
President ACF

Lucena
30-06-2004, 02:19 PM
guys, no need to panic!!
i've found an alternative venue for the mt buller tournaments.

it's just past penrith but i'm sure it should meet up
to the high standard of all chess players.

arosar, mate, it even has a swimming pool!!

i've attached some screen shots to whet your appetite...

what on earth is that?

arosar
30-06-2004, 02:55 PM
It's a hotel in Saudi Arabia, the burj al-arab or something rather. The ACF's annual budget won't even pay for one night's stay there.

AR

arosar
30-06-2004, 03:01 PM
. . . call him and he will negotiate a refund.

What does that mean? That he will pay himself or act as middle man between chess player and merchant?

AR

Lucena
30-06-2004, 03:19 PM
What does that mean? That he will pay himself or act as middle man between chess player and merchant?

AR

I think it was pretty clear Amiel that George/David was talking about individual players who have lost out.

Garvinator
30-06-2004, 04:43 PM
I reckon Kerry's suggestion is a definite improvement over the current situation. However, I think we should recognize that finding the top chessplayer in Australia is just ONE objective of the Australian Championship. If it were our only objective, weíd play it as a 32-player round-robin instead of a 32-player Swiss. At some point measures which improve the reliability of the tournament (in its goal of awarding the title to the best player there) become sufficiently time-consuming/boring/expensive that itís not worth the effort. As far as Iím concerned the whole idea of having a long-form playoff already oversteps the bounds on all three of these respects.

So how about this for a scenario when the 2008 Australian Championship is tied between Raymond Song and Moulthun Ly: The arbiters produce two laptops and the players proceed to have a 3-game playoff match of 4 2 blitz on ICC or FICS or playchess or whatever. True, this doesnít prove much about the respective strengths of the two players (any more than a penalty shoot-out proves much about the respective strengths of two soccer teams), but the tournament itself has already suggested that theyíre reasonably close. And, like a penalty shoot-out in soccer, itís a practical solution thatís fun for the spectators!


the tournament that has fallen over is the australian open, rather than the australian championships. the open by nature will have more entries and is not as elite in nature as the championship.

Kevin Bonham
30-06-2004, 04:58 PM
Although the last playoff match between Johansen and Speck was excellently organised and run by Graeme Gardiner, the delay between the tournament and the playoff was a bit problematic. I suppose it all comes down to what you want to prioritise in a chess tournament ... as Brian has asked.

That issue's been dealt with now - see the new playoff provisions at item 7 of http://www.auschess.org.au/constitution/con3.htm. Playoff now has to be held within 6 months and money is withheld to form part of the prize pool. Think this was passed at National Conference this year.

Kevin Bonham
30-06-2004, 05:06 PM
You mean this has happenened BEFORE? :wow:

Yes, although the structure of the previous Mt Buller attempt was rather different and the causes of its collapse may also have been. I'll be interested to hear exactly why this one fell over. Depending on the circumstances, I may find myself much inclined to vote for a bid from another state or another organising group, but I don't know yet exactly why this all happened.

arosar
02-09-2004, 02:21 PM
S'cuse me gray . . . I know you're lurking somewhere out there . . . but is Lidums now the principal sponsor of the Aus Open mate?

AR

Garvinator
02-09-2004, 02:43 PM
S'cuse me gray . . . I know you're lurking somewhere out there . . . but is Lidums now the principal sponsor of the Aus Open mate?

AR
you know the drill arosar: georgeshoward@hotmail.com

Oepty
02-09-2004, 02:45 PM
Amiel. Be reassured from what I understand, and I do have a basis for saying this, the organisers are working very hard to make this an excellent tournament. I am confident they will produce a brillant tournament. Keep your ears open for some exciting developments.

Scott

arosar
02-09-2004, 03:01 PM
Amiel. Be reassured from what I understand, and I do have a basis for saying this, the organisers are working very hard to make this an excellent tournament. I am confident they will produce a brillant tournament.

WTF are you on about? Did I say anything? Huh?

AR

arosar
02-09-2004, 03:04 PM
you know the drill arosar: georgeshoward@hotmail.com

Ow c'mon gray, mate . . . it's a Y or N answer man. It's just that it seems like in the Australian Chess magazine, the announcement is very loud and clear: "Lidums Australian Open . . . " We were all under the impression that it was Mercure.

What's going on mate?

AR

Oepty
02-09-2004, 03:09 PM
WTF are you on about? Did I say anything? Huh?

AR

You have been expressing doubts in the other thread, but I couldn't answer there because it is currently closed.

Also I didn't know the name Lidum Australian Open ... was in the public arena so I wasn't going to confirm your rumour. I think naming rights sponsor, not principle sponsor would be the best way to put it, but this is just slightly informed supposition so don't treat it as gospel.

Scott

arosar
02-09-2004, 03:17 PM
Also I didn't know the name Lidum Australian Open ... was in the public arena so I wasn't going to confirm your rumour. I think naming rights sponsor, not principle sponsor would be the best way to put it, but this is just slightly informed supposition so don't treat it as gospel.

Isn't a "naming rights" sponsor the principal sponsor? Oh I dunno!

And, mate, it's no friggin rumour. It's in the public arena already. See ACM.

Are you now the new apprentice mouthpiece for this event Scott?

AR

skip to my lou
02-09-2004, 03:28 PM
Wrong thread arosar..

If you want to discuss something related to mt buller create a new thread with a specific topic.

This time, I will move all these posts to a new thread so they will not be deleted. Send me a title for the new thread through PM.

Garvinator
02-09-2004, 03:28 PM
Are you now the new apprentice mouthpiece for this event Scott?
scott is in no way a mouthpiece for the official organisers, to which there are seven. It is just that Scott lives in adelaide, same as George, Andrew and Alex, so i would suspect that he speaks to them.

As for lidums, i have not seen the magazine, so i cant comment about what is in it. I might see it tonight though.

On the issue of principal/naming sponsor. Normally the sponsor that gives the most to the tournament (money, information etc) is the principal and has the naming rights. For some tournaments, this is not always the case, especially when there multiple sponsors involved.

arosar
02-09-2004, 03:32 PM
Wrong thread arosar..

If you want to discuss something related to mt buller create a new thread with a specific topic.

This time, I will move all these posts to a new thread so they will not be deleted. Send me a title for the new thread through PM.


Just continue w/ the old thread man.

AR

arosar
02-09-2004, 03:35 PM
As for lidums, i have not seen the magazine, so i cant comment about what is in it. I might see it tonight though.

So you know nothing then?

Man, it's either (i) you've been kept in the dark or (ii) the ACM just made it up. If it's the former mate, I'd be friggin upset if I were you.

Not trying to cause trouble man. I just read it last night and wondered, "WTF!"

AR

Garvinator
02-09-2004, 03:55 PM
So you know nothing then?

Man, it's either (i) you've been kept in the dark or (ii) the ACM just made it up. If it's the former mate, I'd be friggin upset if I were you.

Not trying to cause trouble man. I just read it last night and wondered, "WTF!"

AR
or (iii) i know what the truth is and am waiting to see the article before commenting further.

skip to my lou
02-09-2004, 05:23 PM
Just continue w/ the old thread man.

AR
Sorry I thought this was the other announcements thread, anyhow... start a new thread please, so it is easy to follow discussion. Give me a title and i'll split this up.

ursogr8
02-09-2004, 09:32 PM
you know the drill arosar: georgeshoward@hotmail.com

gagge''d

Now I am confused.
On page 45 of the September/October Australian Chess magazine there looks to be a paid advert. that says Contacts_OPEN; Garvin Gray, with a mobile number and an e-mail address. Why would someone place an advert. with details of contact if a question addressed to that contact simply results in pass-the-parcel to another address?

starter

Garvinator
03-09-2004, 01:32 AM
gagge''d

Now I am confused.
On page 45 of the September/October Australian Chess magazine there looks to be a paid advert. that says Contacts_OPEN; Garvin Gray, with a mobile number and an e-mail address. Why would someone place an advert. with details of contact if a question addressed to that contact simply results in pass-the-parcel to another address?

starter
because questions relating to sponsorships etc are being dealt with and handled by George Howard. Again i repeat, if you really want to get answers to your questions, send them to George.

I will answer questions relating to playing times, entry fees for the australian open, not regarding sponsorship deals and other big picture items.

ursogr8
03-09-2004, 07:55 AM
because questions relating to sponsorships etc are being dealt with and handled by George Howard. Again i repeat, if you really want to get answers to your questions, send them to George.

I will answer questions relating to playing times, entry fees for the australian open, not regarding sponsorship deals and other big picture items.


gg''
Your position has been made clear a few times in the past, and you have repeated it here again. But it does clash in regard to the paid advertisement which says openly that you are the contact. It is lucky for you the GURU does not seem to visit here now-a-days otherwise your criticism of his (alleged) misleading advertising would invite retaliation.

starter

arosar
03-09-2004, 09:34 AM
We just get the feeling that these Mt-nowhere blokes are just running rings around us. How can we trust this mob? The paying public are already uncertain about the whole thing yet all we're getting is a lot of shiftiness.

gray . . . what's going on here mate? Is Lidums the main sponsor now or what?

jenni, you know anything you can leak to us. This gray is hopeless. And the GH seems to have abandoned us.

AR

jenni
03-09-2004, 10:12 AM
We just get the feeling that these Mt-nowhere blokes are just running rings around us. How can we trust this mob? The paying public are already uncertain about the whole thing yet all we're getting is a lot of shiftiness.

gray . . . what's going on here mate? Is Lidums the main sponsor now or what?

jenni, you know anything you can leak to us. This gray is hopeless. And the GH seems to have abandoned us.

AR
Give him a break Amiel! George is the only one who can answer questions on sponsorship and George has stopped reading the BB. According to an e-mail I had from George yesterday, he is putting in about 5 hours a day on the Mt Buller stuff.

I understand entry forms/brochures are being printed and will be distributed by mid September. So it is all happening, it is not going to collapse again.

The only thing that can stop it being a success is chess players not going - all the rest of it is in place.

I have to admit I am keeping to my schools stuff and occasionally sticking my nose into the Aus Juniors, so don't follow all the Open details too much.

I have spoken to Roman about the school comp needs and he is very friendly and co-operative.

My school comp entry and info details have gone out to all states. It looks like ACT will be sending teams in all divisions. Qld seem all organised and eager to come and have a girl's high team on standbye to fill a bye if needed. I've been chatting to the teacher from Christ Church in WA and they are all ready to come - they are the qualifying team from WA. Historically WA have only sent an open High team. So given that it is still 7 weeks to close of entries for the ASC, everthing seem on track

I have equipment organised, Charles Zworestine is DOP and I am in the process of organising the trophies. The kids will be getting free afternoon tea, pretty cheap lunches (around $2 to $3 for sandwiches) and a subsidised dinner on the Saturday.

When it comes to the Aus Juniors, I can only speak for the ACT, but we will have a bigger contingent going to Mt Buller than played in the Canberra Aus juniors. I know Graeme Gardiner is bringing down a group from Gold Coast, so I think that is going to be pretty successful too.

Kerry Stead
03-09-2004, 03:27 PM
We just get the feeling that these Mt-nowhere blokes are just running rings around us. How can we trust this mob? The paying public are already uncertain about the whole thing yet all we're getting is a lot of shiftiness.

gray . . . what's going on here mate? Is Lidums the main sponsor now or what?

jenni, you know anything you can leak to us. This gray is hopeless. And the GH seems to have abandoned us.

AR

Amiel, its not shiftiness ... its mostly a matter of still finalising things (like which foreign players are coming) first before announcing anything ... the theory of its better to be right and a little late than completely wrong but on time.

As for the sponsor question that you ask, Lidums are the naming rights sponsor. Mount Buller Chalet are still the main sponsor. They are just willing to put their name a little into the background in order to get some other sponsors on board. The brochures for the event (which are at the printers now from what I have heard) should have Mount Buller mentioned throughout, so I think the Chalet are pretty safe with getting at least some mention for their money.

Hopefully that will placate you Amiel ... to use a cliche, good things come to those who wait ... ;)

PHAT
03-09-2004, 04:12 PM
My school comp entry and info details have gone out to all states. It looks like ACT will be sending teams in all divisions. Qld seem all organised and eager to come and have a girl's high team on standbye to fill a bye if needed. I've been chatting to the teacher from Christ Church in WA and they are all ready to come - they are the qualifying team from WA.

Primary School Girls' Teams Event? Can any school in Australia enter a team, or do they have to be nominated by a state body?

jenni
03-09-2004, 04:29 PM
Primary School Girls' Teams Event? Can any school in Australia enter a team, or do they have to be nominated by a state body?

They have to be nominated. There is only 1 team allowed per state in any division. So normally there is some sort of qualifying competition. Where a stand alone girls comp is not held, then often there will be a playoff between teams that have entered the Open primary.

I know NSW have a rule that you can only be a rep if you have entered the Friday comp - maybe Kerry could shed some more enlightenment here.

This is the website for the 2003 ASC Girls primary standings.

http://www.nscom.net.au/2004ajcc/rounds/asc/2/primary_girls/standing.htm

Kerry Stead
03-09-2004, 04:59 PM
Yes, you need to have played in the Friday interschools comp to be eligible to represent NSW at the ASC. The team in the Friday comp need not be an all girls team, just all the members of the proposed ASC team need to have played in the comp.
The people to contact for this are Charles Zworestine or Richard Gastineau-Hills (although you might want to leave any detailed questions for Richard until next month - he seems fairly snowed under with the magazine and country comps for the next few weeks).
I know some of the Summer Hill team from last year have moved to High School, however they always seem to have strong girls to put forward, so I imagine they would be nominating a team for selection.
I'm guessing by Matt's question that he's thinking about nominating the Sweeney, et al girls team ... Sweeney in this case NOT being Matt!

cincinnatus
03-09-2004, 10:40 PM
Garvin,

I will pretend that as a named "Organiser" you had some hand in the following decision.

Why has the Mt. Buller Organising Committee failed to observe Clause 35 of the By-laws for ACF Tournaments concerning entry fee concessions.

"35. A concession entry fee is to be offered in all ACF events. The minimum concession shall be a reduction of 25per cent of the full entry fee. Persons eligible for a concession entry fee are juniors, full-time students and holders of a Commonwealth Government healthcare card. "

Australian Chess Federation Newsletter No.280 (1 Sept. 2004):
"The Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships
...
Prices: $60 adult (by December 1). $80 adult (after december 1 and before december 15).
Concession and junior entry fee: $50 early, $70 late.
Entries close: December 15.
Contact: Garvin Gray, ph 0422993062
garvingray@mtbullerchess.com"

I mentioned in the Australian Chess thread #406 that this very thing caused a brouhaha the last time it happened. But then ... that was with an ACF Council that had no conflict of interest with its Australian Open Organising team and who respected its By-laws.

If this is not just an oversight, quickly corrected, and you either claim that the ACF Council is able to over-ride its By-laws or refer me to georgeshoward@hotmail.com I may give you a full history of the aforementioned MCC/ACF/VCA stoush and again regale you and everyone else with a discussion of why the By-laws (and Constitution) should be carefully followed.

Garvinator
03-09-2004, 11:19 PM
Garvin,

I will pretend that as a named "Organiser" you had some hand in the following decision. no need to pretend, i am one of the organisers


Why has the Mt. Buller Organising Committee failed to observe Clause 35 of the By-laws for ACF Tournaments concerning entry fee concessions.

"35. A concession entry fee is to be offered in all ACF events. The minimum concession shall be a reduction of 25per cent of the full entry fee. Persons eligible for a concession entry fee are juniors, full-time students and holders of a Commonwealth Government healthcare card. "

Australian Chess Federation Newsletter No.280 (1 Sept. 2004):
"The Mt Buller Australian Minor Chess Championships
...
Prices: $60 adult (by December 1). $80 adult (after december 1 and before december 15).
Concession and junior entry fee: $50 early, $70 late.
Entries close: December 15.
Contact: Garvin Gray, ph 0422993062
garvingray@mtbullerchess.com"

I mentioned in the Australian Chess thread #406 that this very thing caused a brouhaha the last time it happened. But then ... that was with an ACF Council that had no conflict of interest with its Australian Open Organising team and who respected its By-laws.
the minor tournament is not an official acf event. We dont have to run it, there are no by laws about it or how it is to be run, so we are free to set our conditions for it. The only consideration we have is how it will affect the open tournament.


If this is not just an oversight, quickly corrected, and you either claim that the ACF Council is able to over-ride its By-laws or refer me to georgeshoward@hotmail.com I may give you a full history of the aforementioned MCC/ACF/VCA stoush and again regale you and everyone else with a discussion of why the By-laws (and Constitution) should be carefully followed.
ok then, with a threat like that, georgeshoward@hotmail.com , have fun :P

you might want to be careful though as it is partly because of cv that we had to pick up the ball for mt buller.

ursogr8
04-09-2004, 01:47 PM
no need to pretend, i am one of the organisers


the minor tournament is not an official acf event. We dont have to run it, there are no by laws about it or how it is to be run, so we are free to set our conditions for it. The only consideration we have is how it will affect the open tournament.


ok then, with a threat like that, georgeshoward@hotmail.com , have fun :P

you might want to be careful though as it is partly because of cv that we had to pick up the ball for mt buller.

A curious double-standard at play here for one who is gagge''d. Amiel asks a reasonable question about naming rights; directs his question to the publicised contact...and ends up with a flea in his ear from the contact. (Kerry has no trouble answering the said question).
But Cin. gets a considered response to his question.

What can be the explanation? Bias against NSW? Bias against metro-man?
Surely it cannot be that Cin. has been less provocative on this thread.

starter

arosar
04-09-2004, 01:53 PM
He hates me guts - the bas.tard!

Still, I don't blame me mate gray. He clearly didn't know. I feel quite sorry for the bloke - very much a lamb to the slaughter.

AR

Kevin Bonham
04-09-2004, 05:51 PM
This thread has been locked by Jeo because the main existing Mt Buller threads are too long and are becoming unwieldy to handle for moderation. Feel free to continue discussion on a new thread.