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antichrist
05-07-2008, 06:55 PM
NSW has new crimes of annoying religious fantastic pilgrims - a fine of $5,500 if I go and do my usual thing of protesting against religious idols!

What was the name of Castillo's book about the foolish priests that he was persecuted for? Fool and Pulpit or something like that?

Bring it on religious idols - I am coming special down to Sydney to take you on!

I love youse all

CameronD
05-07-2008, 07:16 PM
Would be interesting to have that law tested in court. It must contrdict something.

Kevin Bonham
05-07-2008, 07:21 PM
AC, I think you do your cause a disservice by being more abusive to the believers than to the ridiculous laws put in place to "protect" them. The laws are a disgrace of a sort that should not occur in a liberal democracy and I encourage NSW voters to vote out all parties that supported them (if you can find a way to do so without voting for someone even sillier).

However assuming all those who are attending to be fanatics is unjustified and to call them idiots without explanation leaves yourself open to charges of also being one, and may be illegal.

The following is a moderation directive: you have 24 hours to tone the post down to something that doesn't have me thinking about religious vilification law, or lose it.

Axiom
05-07-2008, 07:55 PM
AC, I think you do your cause a disservice by being more abusive to the believers than to the ridiculous laws put in place to "protect" them. The laws are a disgrace of a sort that should not occur in a liberal democracy and I encourage NSW voters to vote out all parties that supported them (if you can find a way to do so without voting for someone even sillier).

However assuming all those who are attending to be fanatics is unjustified and to call them idiots without explanation leaves yourself open to charges of also being one, and may be illegal.

The following is a moderation directive: you have 24 hours to tone the post down to something that doesn't have me thinking about religious vilification law, or lose it.
AC IS NOT SAYING "IF YOU'RE RELIGIOUS YOU'RE AN IDIOT" BUT RATHER HE WAS REFERRING TO THOSE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE HE CONSIDERED IDIOTS IE AS IN " RELIGIOUS IDIOTS"

AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION , I'M SURE YOU'LL AGREE , WHEN EXAMINING VILIFICATION LAW.

Kevin Bonham
05-07-2008, 08:02 PM
AC IS NOT SAYING "IF YOU'RE RELIGIOUS YOU'RE AN IDIOT" BUT RATHER HE WAS REFERRING TO THOSE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE HE CONSIDERED IDIOTS IE AS IN " RELIGIOUS IDIOTS"

AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION , I'M SURE YOU'LL AGREE , WHEN EXAMINING VILIFICATION LAW.

It is an important distinction but on my long experience of AC's output I am not at all convinced he considers any religious people not to be idiots, and the above is quite consistent with that.

Lose the caps in future. SHOUTING LIKE THIS only makes people wonder if there's something wrong with your argument and I'm getting sorely tempted to delete all gratuitous shouting that is more than about two lines long.

Bill Gletsos
05-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Lose the caps in future. SHOUTING LIKE THIS only makes people wonder if there's something wrong with your argument and I'm getting sorely tempted to delete all gratuitous shouting that is more than about two lines long.He has been warned about using all caps on a number of previous occasions.
Next time such posts will be deleted without notice.

Capablanca-Fan
05-07-2008, 10:25 PM
AC, I think you do your cause a disservice by being more abusive to the believers than to the ridiculous laws put in place to "protect" them. The laws are a disgrace of a sort that should not occur in a liberal democracy and I encourage NSW voters to vote out all parties that supported them (if you can find a way to do so without voting for someone even sillier).
FWIW I don't support such laws or any other religious anti-vilification laws.

MichaelBaron
06-07-2008, 02:11 AM
So what exactly does the law say?:hmm:

Spiny Norman
06-07-2008, 07:57 AM
Bring it on religious idiots - I am coming special down to Sydney to take you on!
Looks like the geese are migrating early this year ...

antichrist
06-07-2008, 10:48 AM
AC, I think you do your cause a disservice by being more abusive to the believers than to the ridiculous laws put in place to "protect" them. The laws are a disgrace of a sort that should not occur in a liberal democracy and I encourage NSW voters to vote out all parties that supported them (if you can find a way to do so without voting for someone even sillier).

However assuming all those who are attending to be fanatics is unjustified and to call them idiots without explanation leaves yourself open to charges of also being one, and may be illegal.

The following is a moderation directive: you have 24 hours to tone the post down to something that doesn't have me thinking about religious vilification law, or lose it.

Voting out the Catholic premier is too late, the damage will have been done, lack of civil rights plus wasting $120,000,000 on this garbage. Parents of permanently very sick children can't even get sufficient respite support from the government yet money is wasted on this garbage. The public schools facilities are a disgrace, toilets without doors, no hot water etc and freezing in winter and sweltering in summer. Decent Catholics should protest and demand that the $120,000,000 is handed back for a worthy cause.

What about if a religious custom was to eat rare snails, and they wiped out your "children", should there still be freedom of religion?

Brian_Jones
06-07-2008, 10:48 AM
...........I encourage NSW voters to vote out all parties that supported them (if you can find a way to do so without voting for someone even sillier).

Sorry Kevin, NSW voters can do no worse than the silly Tasmanian voters who sent Bob Brown to Canberra. :mad:

antichrist
06-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Bob Brown is the highest principled man in Canberra. Remember when he tried to present that anti-Iraqi protest petition to GW Bush but the war mongering Liberals formed a pack around GWB to keep him out. The lowest point of Aussie politics for many years. And deservedly they are now out on their backsides - where Bush will join them shortly.

antichrist
06-07-2008, 11:40 AM
Gay groups under WYD policing scrutiny PRINT FRIENDLY EMAIL STORY
AM - Friday, 4 July , 2008 08:22:00
Reporter: Michael Edwards
TONY EASTLEY: Gay groups say police have begun questioning them about their planned activities during World Youth Day. New regulations give police extra powers during the event in Sydney.

Civil libertarians say the new rules are over-the-top and inflammatory and gay groups planning events to coincide with World Youth Day say they’re already being unnecessarily scrutinised by police.

Michael Edwards has this story.

MICHAEL EDWARDS: Luke Roberts is a lapsed Catholic as well as a homosexual activist and performer who goes by the stage name, Pope Alice.

Pope Alice is best described as a celestial being whose greatest claim is that she is the "Queen of Heaven" and along with Pope Benedict, Pope Alice will also be in Sydney during World Youth Day.

LUKE ROBERTS: I want to see Pope Alice express herself as a focal point for anybody, gays, lesbians, transgender, intergender, queers, bisexuals, anybody, heterosexuals - anyone who have an open mind and want to say we have had enough of these medieval religions that keep the world backward.

MICHAEL EDWARDS: Pope Alice will host a so-called “kiss-in” to be held along Oxford Street in Darlinghurst.

LUKE ROBERTS: You’re having your thing. We’re having ours.

MICHAEL EDWARDS: Luke Roberts has made no secret of the proposed “kiss in” and yesterday it appeared the New South Wales Police also got wind of it.

He received a call in Brisbane from a policeman who identified himself as being from the World Youth Day Investigation Squad. He was then asked him a series of questions.

LUKE ROBERTS: He wanted to know how long I’d be there, how many people would actually be with me, would there be music, what was the nature of the event.

MICHAEL EDWARDS: Mr Roberts says that despite the fact the policeman was respectful and polite, he still felt intimidated.

LUKE ROBERTS: You do feel that you’re not sure then, you know, whether your phones are going to be tapped, you know what I mean. You feel, of course, a little vulnerable.

MICHAEL EDWARDS: This week it was revealed New South Wales Police have been given the power to arrest anyone who in their view causes annoyance or inconvenience to pilgrims during World Youth Day.

Offenders risk fines of up to $5,500. Protest groups worry about the definition of “annoying”.

They fear it could lead to the confiscation of items such as placards and t-shirts bearing anti-World Youth Day slogans.

Paul Harris is the co-convenor of Acceptance, a group for gay and lesbian Catholics which is planning to run a forum on homosexuality to coincide with the event. He also received a call from the New South Wales Police.

PAUL HARRIS: Initially, I thought it was the World Youth Day people. I thought it was, you know, some kind of World Youth Day CSI. Some secret police of the Catholic Church were trying to investigate what this gay group is on about. I didn't know who it was really.

TONY EASTLEY: Paul Harris, the co-convenor of the gay Catholic group, Acceptance, ending Michael Edwards' report.

A spokesman for New South Wales Police has told AM, the World Youth Day Investigation Squad is not about curtailing the rights of protesters - instead, its role is to ensure everyone’s safety.

antichrist
06-07-2008, 11:45 AM
olice investigate WYD queer kiss-in

Pope Alice will host a queer kiss-in along Sydney's Oxford Street during World Youth Day. (Photo supplied by Luke Roberts)

Audio: Gay groups under WYD policing scrutiny (AM) Map: Sydney 2000
Gay groups say police are unnecessarily scrutinising them over activities planned for Sydney's World Youth Day, as civil libertarians rile at new police powers for this month's week-long event.

Lapsed Catholic Luke Roberts is a homosexual activist and performer who goes by the stage name Pope Alice, a character best described as a celestial being of indeterminate gender.

Along with Pope Benedict, Pope Alice will also be in Sydney during World Youth Day, hosting a "kiss-in" along Oxford Street in Darlinghurst.

"I want to see Pope Alice express herself as a focal point for anybody - gays, lesbians, transgender, queers, bisexuals, heterosexuals, anyone who has an open mind and wants to say, 'We've had enough of the medieval religions that keep the world backwards,'" Mr Roberts said.

The performer has made no secret of the proposed kiss-in.

"You're having your thing and we are having ours," he said. "This is one of the gay capitals of the world."

Yesterday, it appeared the NSW Police got wind of the plans. Mr Roberts received a call in Brisbane from a detective who identified himself as being from the World Youth Day Investigation Squad. He was then asked a series of questions.

"He wanted to know how long I'd be there, how many people would actually be with me, would there be music, what was the nature of the event," Mr Roberts said.

He says he felt intimidated, despite the fact the policeman was respectful and polite.

"You do feel that you're not sure then whether or not your phones are going to be tapped," he said. "You do feel a little vulnerable."


Annoy pilgrims, face a fine

This week, it was revealed NSW Police had been given the power to arrest anyone who they believe causes annoyance or inconvenience to pilgrims during World Youth Day. Offenders risk fines of up to $5,500.

Protest groups worry about the definition of the word, 'annoying'. They fear it could lead to the confiscation of items such as placards and T-shirts bearing anti-World Youth Day slogans.

The co-convenor of Acceptance, a group for gay and lesbian Catholics that is planning to run a forum on homosexuality to coincide with the event, says he has also received a call from NSW Police.

Paul Harris says the call came after World Youth Day organisers refused to include the forum as part of the week's official festivities.

"Initially, I thought it was the World Youth Day people," he said.

"I thought it was some sort of World Youth Day CSI - some secret police of the Catholic Church were trying to investigate what this gay group were on about. I didn't know who it was really."


Green light for silent protest

A Hunter Valley man, who says he was sexually abused by a local priest, has met the police to discuss another World Youth Day protest planned by a group of sex abuse victims.

Peter Gogarty says the protesters are considering wearing T-shirts saying, 'Pope Benedict say sorry', calling for a papal apology to victims of paedophile priests.

"We're also planning to have a number of timber crosses there but have one of those for every convicted paedophile priest," he said.

"They were fairly accepting of that. As long as we don't go out of our way to disrupt anybody else or engage with anyone else, we shouldn't have too much trouble."

Mr Gogarty says the police suggested the group apply for a permit to stage the protest.

antichrist
06-07-2008, 11:54 AM
KB it was the Catholic bloody fanatics who bashed me up the last time a ruddy pope came to Australia, at the SCG it was. The Swiss guards made me eat dust a...holes they are. I was protesting against the Pope's birth control policy that banned condoms for contraception and also against AIDS.

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2008, 05:54 PM
Bob Brown is the highest principled man in Canberra. Remember when he tried to present that anti-Iraqi protest petition to GW Bush but the war mongering Liberals formed a pack around GWB to keep him out. The lowest point of Aussie politics for many years. And deservedly they are now out on their backsides - where Bush will join them shortly.
Where was that Green Brown moron when Saddam was gasing Kurds, torturing thousands,filling mass graves with hundreds of thousands of victims, paying the families of suicide bombers. Brown was trying to be a crass exhibitionist, who still enjoys far more freedom than was enjoyed under the despot he wanted to keep.

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2008, 05:55 PM
Sorry Kevin, NSW voters can do no worse than the silly Tasmanian voters who sent Bob Brown to Canberra. :mad:
Yeah, probably something in the drinking water :P

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2008, 07:00 PM
As someone wrote to the Australian:


“Perhaps those activists who feel thwarted in their attempts to deride and insult people of faith and disrupt a major religious event such as World Youth Day might like to try their luck in Mecca in December during the next annual Hajj pilgrimage. Alternatively, they might like to organise a human rights rally at the Beijing Olympics. Maybe then our ‘annoyance’ regulations will not seem so bad.”

Aaron Guthrie
06-07-2008, 07:08 PM
As someone wrote to the Australian:


“Perhaps those activists who feel thwarted in their attempts to deride and insult people of faith and disrupt a major religious event such as World Youth Day might like to try their luck in Mecca in December during the next annual Hajj pilgrimage. Alternatively, they might like to organise a human rights rally at the Beijing Olympics. Maybe then our ‘annoyance’ regulations will not seem so bad.”But presumably they object to the lack of protest ability in those country's also, so what does this show? Also, say someone objects to the competency of the Aus government. Is it a retort to say, well consider Zimbabwe, let's see them go and try and live there and then complain about our government's "incompetency".

(And so it seems easy to generalize this retort to any complaint, excepting the case where we are the worse at something.)

Kevin Bonham
06-07-2008, 08:15 PM
Sorry Kevin, NSW voters can do no worse than the silly Tasmanian voters who sent Bob Brown to Canberra. :mad:

I was not one of those, and until the last poll your state was responsible for the unreconstructed trot Kerry Nettle (albeit elected with a much lower primary vote.) :D


What about if a religious custom was to eat rare snails, and they wiped out your "children", should there still be freedom of religion?

My comments weren't about my views about freedom of religion. They were about the lack of credibility of your comments, and also about the extent to which the laws of the land limit what we can allow expressed here. Thanks for toning it down although I would have preferred it be toned down a little bit further.

Naturally I do not consider religious belief to be an excuse for anything much that would not be otherwise allowed - including these crackdowns on anyone "annoying" the WYD crowd.


KB it was the Catholic bloody fanatics who bashed me up the last time a ruddy pope came to Australia, at the SCG it was.

No doubt, but it doesn't mean that all those attending support such a response to your antics.

Capablanca-Fan
06-07-2008, 09:15 PM
But presumably they object to the lack of protest ability in those country's also, so what does this show?
I wonder, since lefties like Brown seem to object to western nations, not to the worse brutality in the communists, for example. And for years, western lefties protested at the way that the South African white government treated the blacks, but were silent at the worse treatment of blacks by black governments.

Igor_Goldenberg
07-07-2008, 09:48 AM
I wonder, since lefties like Brown seem to object to western nations, not to the worse brutality in the communists, for example. And for years, western lefties protested at the way that the South African white government treated the blacks, but were silent at the worse treatment of blacks by black governments.
It's quite simple. Lefties want everyone to be equal (translated to normal language - the same). It is the equality of misery Churchill was referring to.

antichrist
10-07-2008, 07:42 PM
KB, Since buying a large expensive bag of fertilizer I found out that it kills the snails, so not using at all, do I go to top of class. Am up against national park at byron.

Kevin Bonham
10-07-2008, 07:53 PM
KB, Since buying a large expensive bag of fertilizer I found out that it kills the snails, so not using at all, do I go to top of class.

Only if you stay on topic. Then again, it is your own thread. :D


Am up against national park at byron.

There is a large and extremely rare snail (http://www.austmus.gov.au/invertebrates/mal/endangered/thersites.htm) in your area. Cumbebin Wetland at Byron is a known site for the species.

Using fertiliser in the garden is still OK so long as it does not wash into any adjacent rainforests or swamp forests.

antichrist
10-07-2008, 07:59 PM
Only if you stay on topic. Then again, it is your own thread. :D



There is a large and extremely rare snail (http://www.austmus.gov.au/invertebrates/mal/endangered/thersites.htm) in your area. Cumbebin Wetland at Byron is a known site for the species.

Using fertiliser in the garden is still OK so long as it does not wash into any adjacent rainforests or swamp forests.

Well my property does drain into a swamp in the national park. I also make a point of not washing paint things etc in the area. This is my thread so maybe I can pollute it, just like RCC pollutes society.

I donated 20 loads of soil to council for their sewerage evaporation ponds, they pre-tested it and found no chemicals for whiteants etc. Our rivers are now cleaner due to "natural" sewerage treatment.

I had a fishpond going and got full of rarish ponds and my neighbour complained about them keeping him awake at night. Silly bugger

I have also put special vines in to save a rare butterfly.

Kevin Bonham
10-07-2008, 08:25 PM
^^^
Good stuff.

:clap:

ElevatorEscapee
17-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Given our highly esteemed current visitor, I thought this the most appropriate place to post this picture. :D

Axiom
17-07-2008, 09:40 PM
Given our highly esteemed current visitor, I thought this the most appropriate place to post this picture. :D
ooh, i wanna do a caption !

ElevatorEscapee
17-07-2008, 10:07 PM
^^ Feel free to knock yourself out! Maybe copy and paste to the photo caption thread first! ;)

MichaelBaron
17-07-2008, 11:24 PM
Well my property does drain into a swamp in the national park. I also make a point of not washing paint things etc in the area. This is my thread so maybe I can pollute it, just like RCC pollutes society.

I donated 20 loads of soil to council for their sewerage evaporation ponds, they pre-tested it and found no chemicals for whiteants etc. Our rivers are now cleaner due to "natural" sewerage treatment.

I had a fishpond going and got full of rarish ponds and my neighbour complained about them keeping him awake at night. Silly bugger

I have also put special vines in to save a rare butterfly.

All of this is really facinating...just not sure how it is related to world yourth gathering....:hmm:

antichrist
18-07-2008, 01:10 PM
All of this is really facinating...just not sure how it is related to world yourth gathering....:hmm:

Well if I go into the sex scandals of some Catholic priests Mac (out of Vic like you) gets all upset. Isn't it shocking what Bishop Fisher said referring to Foster family that that b...... s.... priest O'Donnell (was it?) raped their daughters in school hours. Where was the supervision? I taught chess to children in schools for 8 years and not one scandal - and I am a bloody atheist. It shows that religion is all bulldust.

The priest is fortunate he did not do it to some of my relos instead, they would have knifed him - and I am not joking or exaggerating. I would not put it past Serbs as well. I will probably be barred for that. If you don't mind me asking what would "your" people do?

Kevin Bonham
18-07-2008, 08:55 PM
On the matter of World Youth Day I will note that attendances at an interschool I directed today were severely down because the Catholic schools, yep even the primary schools, all moved one week of their school holidays so their children could have the week off for WYD.

Don't know if other states have the same but certainly a trap for beginners as far as organising things is concerned!

Scorpio
19-07-2008, 12:27 PM
I have been to a World Youth Day before, amazing experience.

antichrist
23-07-2008, 06:34 PM
the Kings Cross reported good trade from the Pilgrims. They were the only business reporting good trade - maybe some like the white stuff.

antichrist
23-09-2008, 02:57 PM
I have been to a World Youth Day before, amazing experience.

How can it be an amazing experience. All you hear is a mass that is the same as you have probably heard a thousand times before. Nothing climaxitic about that. what else you see a few old relics of dead deluded fools with fellow deluded fools and hey presto critical mass is reached.