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antichrist
12-05-2008, 11:43 AM
Winston Churchill was an [snipped-mod] how he glibly sacrificed sailors in the disasterous sea campaign against Turkey in WW1. He only commented afterwards that the ships lost were very old so did not matter. No mention about the sailors lost.

Also when Aussie troops were returning to fight the Pacific War he wanted them to fight without heavy arnaments which were on another ship that had not arrived. Curtin would not allow - a man of the people and humanitarian.

Axiom
19-05-2008, 04:34 PM
War Criminal

33 Degree freemason

Capablanca-Fan
19-05-2008, 04:40 PM
Too much to expect documentation for these smears on the man who led Britain to defeat Hitler—and for the previous decade of "the wilderness years" had warned against the dangers of appeasement.

Spiny Norman
19-05-2008, 04:41 PM
... and the reason for starting this thread is ... what, exactly?

Has Winston been bugging you again AC? Just tell him to p*** off, along with all those other voices ... =8^)

Axiom
19-05-2008, 05:02 PM
Too much to expect documentation for these smears on the man who led Britain to defeat Hitler He had little to do in the defeat of Hitler as any informed russian or american will tell you !



—and for the previous decade of "the wilderness years" had warned against the dangers of appeasement. Churchill was a pawn in a giant geo-political game , merely the right actor for the role. Appeasers simply were not required for the part.

Axiom
19-05-2008, 05:10 PM
Too much to expect documentation for these smears on the man who led Britain to defeat Hitler

The book : "Dark Skies" - Mike Davis

also http://members.tripod.com/~wwx2/churchil.html

try googling "churchill war criminal" there is no shortage of documentation

Capablanca-Fan
19-05-2008, 05:43 PM
He had little to do in the defeat of Hitler as any informed russian or american will tell you !
Britain single-handedly held off Hitler for two years, and won the Battles of the River Plate, Britain and El Alamein before the entry of the Americans. And Churchill, himself half American, even warned the Nazi ambassador Ribbentrop that if Germany went to war, eventually America would join the British side as in WW1 and crush Germany.


Churchill was a pawn in a giant geo-political game , merely the right actor for the role. Appeasers simply were not required for the part.
Who were the players of this alleged game?

Axiom
19-05-2008, 05:48 PM
Britain single-handedly held off Hitler for two years, and won the Battles of the River Plate, Britain and El Alamein before the entry of the Americans. And Churchill, himself half American, even warned the Nazi ambassador Ribbentrop that if Germany went to war, eventually America would join the British side as in WW1 and crush Germany.
after he had prior knowledge of the pearl harbour attack !


Who were the players of this alleged game?
The Rothschild banking dynasty, which played both sides.

Kevin Bonham
19-05-2008, 06:47 PM
Too much to expect documentation for these smears [etc]

Given who posted it, it's probably too much to expect anything.

Axiom
19-05-2008, 06:51 PM
Given who posted it, it's probably too much to expect anything.
OK, conventional history is a very accurate portrayal of reality , is that better ?
:eek: :lol:

Kevin Bonham
20-05-2008, 01:44 AM
Sorry Ax, just meant to bag antichrist this time; you were collateral damage. :lol:

Igor_Goldenberg
20-05-2008, 07:29 AM
OK, conventional history is a very accurate portrayal of reality , is that better ?
:eek: :lol:
Conventional history is a complete crap.
Conspiracy theories are even bigger crap.

Capablanca-Fan
20-05-2008, 09:38 AM
after he had prior knowledge of the pearl harbour attack !
What, at the time Ribbentrop was the Nazi ambassador to the UK? Anyway, it really was the Japanese fault that they attacked Pearl Harbor.


The Rothschild banking dynasty, which played both sides.
I doubt they had that power, esp. in Germany, because they were Jews.

Axiom
20-05-2008, 11:13 AM
Conventional history is a complete crap.

and perhaps the greatest conspiracy theory of all !!

Igor_Goldenberg
20-05-2008, 11:25 AM
and perhaps the greatest conspiracy theory of all !!
Not really. I'd say vested interest of history writers. By vested interest I also mean research grants, reluctance to seriously consider alternative version (as it requires extra work) and unwillingness to acknowledge an error.
Over time probable versions become axiomatic, approximate estimations are treated as precise.
Next generation of historian treat the writing of predecessors as a gospel truth, and so on.

Given that printing press was invented in 15th century, any attempts to precisely describe the history that pre-dates 13th century are, at least, questionable and often laughable.

Axiom
20-05-2008, 11:30 AM
What, at the time Ribbentrop was the Nazi ambassador to the UK? Anyway, it really was the Japanese fault that they attacked Pearl Harbor. and it was Churchill's fault (war crime) that he didn't warn america of the impending attack ?



I doubt they had that power, esp. in Germany, because they were Jews.
i will hunt down some alternative history for you, shortly.
Man made climate change is not the only hoax-conspiracy played out on humans !
Conventional history is likewise not to be trusted on face value.

History is indeed little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind.
Edward Gibbon

Axiom
20-05-2008, 06:49 PM
"If as is said , history is written by the winners, and as sun tsu said 'all war is based on deception' and that few deny the reality of propaganda , why do so many seem to swallow wholesale history's portrayal of events ?
Surely greater scrutiny need be given to these stories we are fed." - Axiom




The Real Churchill

by Adam Young

On February 4th, President Bush eulogized the life of Winston Churchill. The president described Winston Churchill as a "great man" and quickly zeroed in on the mistress that both Bush and Churchill share: war. "He was a prisoner in the Boer War, a controversial strategist in the Great War. He was the rallying voice of the Second World War, and a prophet of the Cold War." Indeed, there doesn't seem to have been a war—or an opportunity for war—that Churchill wasn't associated with during his long career.

Bush also recited Churchill's famous retort that "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it" adding that "history has been kind to Winston Churchill, as it usually is to those who help save the world," surely hoping that history will be kind to George W. Bush.

Except this history is a myth. The truth about the real Churchill—the Churchill that few know—is that he was "a man of the state: of the welfare state and of the warfare state" in Professor Ralph Raico's turn-of-phrase. The truth about Winston Churchill is that he was a menace to liberty, and a disaster for Britain, for Europe, for the United States of America, and for Western Civilization itself.

Not since fictional personages like Hercules and Zeus, have so many myths been attached to one man. As we will see, the Winston Churchill we're told about is not the Churchill known to honest history, but rather a fictional version of the man and his actions. And these words and actions have produced our mainstream "patriotic political myths" as John Denson calls them, which are merely the victor's wartime lies and propaganda scripted into the 'Official History.' The Churchill mythology is challenged by honest history, and the reality about Churchill involves hard, but necessary truths.

cont.-> http://mises.org/story/1450

Kevin Bonham
20-05-2008, 08:49 PM
The Real Churchill

by Adam Young

I enjoyed that spray. Iconoclastic, detailed and well-written. Whether it is accurate or fair I leave to those who know more about such matters.

Axiom
20-05-2008, 08:51 PM
I enjoyed that spray. Iconoclastic, detailed and well-written. Whether it is accurate or fair I leave to those who know more about such matters.
Thank you.
I rather liked my own quote as well !

antichrist
02-06-2008, 01:37 PM
... and the reason for starting this thread is ... what, exactly?

Has Winston been bugging you again AC? Just tell him to p*** off, along with all those other voices ... =8^)

As well as him I have been getting Martin Luther, Giordano Bruno and a few popes, and a few strap kids who reakon that I am their long lost dad.. Who is Spiny Norman btw?