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CameronD
11-02-2008, 01:40 AM
Hi

I will occasionally put forward some bible scriptures for discussion



Enjoy

CameronD
11-02-2008, 02:10 AM
Hi

Recommended Reading

Daniel 7
Revelaions 13:1-10

Scripture

Daniel 7:4-6 (NLT)

4 The first was like a lion and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were pulled off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man. A man's heart was given to it also. 5 Then I saw a second animal, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth. And it was told, 'Get up, and eat much meat!'
6 Then I looked and saw another animal, which looked like a leopard. It had four wings of a bird on its back, and four heads. And it was given the power to rule. 7

Discussion

1. That the Lion represents Great Britton
2. That the Eagle wings represents the United States of America
3. That the bear represents Russia
4. That the Leopard represents Germany
5. That these countries will be around at the return of Christ



Enjoy

ps. I'm not a bible schooler and people need to make up their own minds. These concepts are not mine (Irwin Baxter)

Garrett
11-02-2008, 06:26 AM
how you can go from what is in the 'scripture' section to the 'discussion' section is beyond me.

Maybe I'm just not crazy enough, but have fun discussing.

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 09:36 AM
Hi

Recommended Reading

Daniel 7
Revelaions 13:1-10

Scripture

Daniel 7:4-6 (NLT)

4 The first was like a lion and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were pulled off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man. A man's heart was given to it also. 5 Then I saw a second animal, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth. And it was told, 'Get up, and eat much meat!'
6 Then I looked and saw another animal, which looked like a leopard. It had four wings of a bird on its back, and four heads. And it was given the power to rule. 7

Discussion

1. That the Lion represents Great Britton
2. That the Eagle wings represents the United States of America
3. That the bear represents Russia
4. That the Leopard represents Germany
5. That these countries will be around at the return of Christ



Enjoy

ps. I'm not a bible schooler and people need to make up their own minds. These concepts are not mine (Irwin Baxter)
According to the scholar John Gill, it's 1. Babylon 2. Medo-Persia 3. Greeks under Alexander the Great 4. Roman Empire which was around at the first coming of Christ. The context is four successive beasts representing four successive empires.

CameronD
11-02-2008, 01:16 PM
According to the scholar John Gill, it's 1. Babylon 2. Medo-Persia 3. Greeks under Alexander the Great 4. Roman Empire which was around at the first coming of Christ. The context is four successive beasts representing four successive empires.

Daniel 7:9-12

9 "As I kept looking, thrones were set up and the One Who has lived forever took His seat. His clothing was as white as snow and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne and its wheels were a burning fire. 10 A river of fire was flowing and coming out from before Him. Many thousands were serving Him, and many millions were standing before Him. The Judge was seated, and The Books were opened. 11 I kept looking because of the sound of the proud words which the horn was speaking. I watched until the fourth animal was killed, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the burning fire. 12 The other three animals had their power taken away, but they were allowed to live for a time.

I dont think these countries are ancient kingdoms, but rather around the time of the second coming as shown in the passage above and the openings of the books.

Oepty
11-02-2008, 04:40 PM
A look at Daniel 2 before looking at Daniel 7 would be a good idea. I am not sure starting in the middle of Daniel is really such a good idea.
Scott

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 05:13 PM
Maybe my DVD Jesus in Genesis: The Messianic Prophecies (https://store.creationontheweb.com/au/product_info.php?products_id=554&osCsid=ea37d8061fe5052bb977520f6873c4cd) would help? BTW, I receive no royalties or commission.


“See how the whole Bible, right from the beginning, points to Jesus Christ as God and man, and Saviour. The time, place and manner of His birth, and His mission, are just what the prophets foretold. Genesis is foundational to all this teaching.”

eclectic
11-02-2008, 05:42 PM
the way teleevangelists work shouldn't this thread be called

BIBLE PROFITSY CORNER

?

:doh:

Rincewind
11-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Maybe my DVD Jesus in Genesis: The Messianic Prophecies (https://store.creationontheweb.com/au/product_info.php?products_id=554&osCsid=ea37d8061fe5052bb977520f6873c4cd) would help? BTW, I receive no royalties or commission.


“See how the whole Bible, right from the beginning, points to Jesus Christ as God and man, and Saviour. The time, place and manner of His birth, and His mission, are just what the prophets foretold. Genesis is foundational to all this teaching.”

And you swallow that you might also enjoy this...

Nostradamus (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nostradamus/dp/B000F2C7HC)

BTW I receive no payment from amazon to place this link.

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 06:44 PM
And you swallow that you might also enjoy this...

Nostradamus (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nostradamus/dp/B000F2C7HC)

BTW I receive no payment from amazon to place this link.
Who cares about Nostradamus? By RW's 'reasoning', there can't be any real money because counterfeit money exists. :uhoh:

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 06:45 PM
the way teleevangelists work shouldn't this thread be called

BIBLE PROFITSY CORNER
Do televangelists even care about prophecies? Are there any in Australia (except when Dawko visits because he is a televangelist for atheism)?

Desmond
11-02-2008, 06:46 PM
Daniel is a waste of paper.

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 06:48 PM
Daniel is a waste of paper.
Well, maybe for one who couldn't even tell that he was quoting a dream in one chapter, in his desire to smear the book as teaching a flat earth (but basically parroting some misotheistic site).

Desmond
11-02-2008, 07:09 PM
Well, maybe for one who couldn't even tell that he was quoting a dream in one chapter, in his desire to smear the book as teaching a flat earth (but basically parroting some misotheistic site).
Dream that didn't come true = waste of paper.

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 07:15 PM
Dream that didn't come true = waste of paper.
It did come true, so paper well used. It just didn't make Boris' misotheistic dream of smearing the Bible come true :P

Rincewind
11-02-2008, 07:19 PM
Who cares about Nostradamus? By RW's 'reasoning', there can't be any real money because counterfeit money exists. :uhoh:

Nice straw man... not.

The thing is post hoc "interpretation" of prophesies is about as interesting and difficult as doing a crossword after looking at the answers. The only good prophecy is one that is unequivocally prescriptive BEFORE it is actually fulfilled.

Desmond
11-02-2008, 07:23 PM
It did come true, so paper well used. It just didn't make Boris' misotheistic dream of smearing the Bible come true :PHaven't you washed your mouth out yet? Would you rather I sink to your vulgar level of talking to people, or just keep reminding you of it?

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 08:51 PM
The thing is post hoc "interpretation" of prophesies is about as interesting and difficult as doing a crossword after looking at the answers. The only good prophecy is one that is unequivocally prescriptive BEFORE it is actually fulfilled.
Like Isaiah, Daniel's 70 sevens, Jesus' — but misotheists arbitrarily date the books so they post-date the events prophesied, because of an a priori dogma that predictive prophecy is impossible.

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 08:53 PM
Haven't you washed your mouth out yet? Would you rather I sink to your vulgar level of talking to people, or just keep reminding you of it?
Vulgar basically means "common" (cf. "vulgar Latin"), and by extension rude talk by the common people, but misotheist is a rare word, and I use it quite sparingly when this site as a whole is considered.

Desmond
11-02-2008, 09:02 PM
Vulgar basically means "common" (cf. "vulgar Latin"), and by extension rude talk by the common people, but misotheist is a rare word, and I use it quite sparingly when this site as a whole is considered.Some might find irony in that you overlook a common contemporary usage in favour of a more traditional one, but I find only obfuscation. You're a swearing little potty-mouth, and I'll ask again:
Would you rather I sink to your vulgar vile level of talking to people, or just keep reminding you of it?

Aaron Guthrie
11-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Vulgar basically means "common" (cf. "vulgar Latin"), and by extension rude talk by the common people, but misotheist is a rare word, and I use it quite sparingly when this site as a whole is considered.I'm sure there must be a name for appealing to latin roots.

Rincewind
11-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Like Isaiah, Daniel's 70 sevens, Jesus' — but misotheists arbitrarily date the books so they post-date the events prophesied, because of an a priori dogma that predictive prophecy is impossible.

Ipse dixit.

Basil
11-02-2008, 09:31 PM
I'm sure there must be a name for appealing to latin roots.
Dear Sophia, how about a quick one?

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 10:45 PM
You're a swearing little potty-mouth, and I'll ask again:
Would you rather I sink to your vulgar vile level of talking to people, or just keep reminding you of it?
You're just a mimophant — you're happy to dish it out to Christians but can't take it in return. If you think "misotheist" is potty mouth, then you need to get out more.

Capablanca-Fan
11-02-2008, 10:46 PM
Dear Sophia, how about a quick one?
Wouldn't that be Greek?:confused:

Adamski
11-02-2008, 11:21 PM
I'm sure there must be a name for appealing to latin roots.Ignoring Gunners' slightly off-topic interruption, isn't it called English Grammar?

Adamski
11-02-2008, 11:23 PM
You're just a mimophant — you're happy to dish it out to Christians but can't take it in return. If you think "misotheist" is potty mouth, then you need to get out more.See http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mimophant - a word used to describe Fischer. Worthy of Word of the Day.

Kevin Bonham
11-02-2008, 11:46 PM
The thing is post hoc "interpretation" of prophesies is about as interesting and difficult as doing a crossword after looking at the answers. The only good prophecy is one that is unequivocally prescriptive BEFORE it is actually fulfilled.

Exactly, and even then, if it was just one of many made at the same time, it could have just been a lucky hit.

Astrologers thrive on this sort of thing - if you make enough vague predictions people who want to believe will retro-fit their interpretations to whatever actually happened (and also overplay the apparent hits while downplaying anything they might consider a failure.)

Rincewind
12-02-2008, 12:15 AM
Exactly, and even then, if it was just one of many made at the same time, it could have just been a lucky hit.

Astrologers thrive on this sort of thing - if you make enough vague predictions people who want to believe will retro-fit their interpretations to whatever actually happened (and also overplay the apparent hits while downplaying anything they might consider a failure.)

Sorry, I should have said, unequivocally prescriptive and statistically significant.

The recording of partial hits as successes and retrofitting (very) partial hits is also a common technique of cold readers of the John Edward variety.

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 12:17 AM
The recording of partial hits as successes and retrofitting (very) partial hits is also a common technique of cold readers of the John Edward variety.
I thought he was a shyster ambulance chaser and failed Democrat candidate.

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 12:19 AM
Exactly, and even then, if it was just one of many made at the same time, it could have just been a lucky hit.
I didn't notice a large number of failures.


Astrologers thrive on this sort of thing — if you make enough vague predictions people who want to believe will retro-fit their interpretations to whatever actually happened (and also overplay the apparent hits while downplaying anything they might consider a failure.)
Confirmation bias. Describes many globull warm-mongers who latch on to any heat waves as proof of their alarmism, but ignore the recent cold snaps.

Rincewind
12-02-2008, 12:27 AM
I thought he was a shyster ambulance chaser and failed Democrat candidate.

Yes, you would.

No I mean John Edward the psychic, accurately described on South Park as "The Biggest Douche in the Universe". The "I can talk to dead people, 9/11 victims and Terri Schiavo" guy.

In my books that puts him slightly lower on the ethical totem pole than a politician/lawer, even if he is a democrat.

Kevin Bonham
12-02-2008, 12:44 AM
Confirmation bias. Describes many globull warm-mongers who latch on to any heat waves as proof of their alarmism, but ignore the recent cold snaps.

So do you think there is any value in these vague metaphorical Biblical prophecies? I see no relevant objective difference between them and the dubious efforts of Nostradamus.

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 12:53 AM
So do you think there is any value in these vague metaphorical Biblical prophecies? I see no relevant objective difference between them and the dubious efforts of Nostradamus.
Need more specifics. Nostradamus wrote in verse, many of the prophecies were specific, although there were some typological applications as per the normal Rabbinic practice (http://www.christian-thinktank.com/typol.html).

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 09:38 AM
No I mean John Edward the psychic, accurately described on South Park as "The Biggest Douche in the Universe". The "I can talk to dead people, 9/11 victims and Terri Schiavo" guy.
Maybe it is the same guy then. In the court room, the shyster Democrat would channel the spirits of babies as they were being born (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/31/politics/campaign/31EDWA.html?ex=1202878800&en=e96ec19e14c07f82&ei=5070), to "prove" that the medical team were at fault for not performing a Caesar early enough and thus preventing cerebral palsy. Now we know that this is junk science, but not before the shyster conned millions out of the gullible jury.


In my books that puts him slightly lower on the ethical totem pole than a politician/lawer, even if he is a democrat.
That's debatable. Not only did the shyster Democrat con millions into his own pocket, so he can afford $400 haircuts, his actions ended up resulting in unnecessary Caesarians and driving malpractice premiums for ob-gyn sky high. Thus many specialists from leave the profession and fewer enter, so poor people can sometimes not find one (http://www.brookesnews.com/041207johnedwards.html).

Rincewind
12-02-2008, 09:42 AM
Maybe it is the same guy then. In the court room, the shyster Democrat would channel the spirits of babies as they were being born (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/31/politics/campaign/31EDWA.html?ex=1202878800&en=e96ec19e14c07f82&ei=5070), to "prove" that the medical team were at fault for not performing a Caesar early enough and thus preventing cerebral palsy. Now we know that this is junk science, but not before the shyster conned millions out of the gullible jury.

That is John Edwards.

Aaron Guthrie
12-02-2008, 01:28 PM
Ignoring Gunners' slightly off-topic interruption, isn't it called English Grammar?If anything sensible, "etymology".

Also the sensible point is that sometimes such appeals to latin (or other) roots are irrelevant.

Aaron Guthrie
12-02-2008, 01:37 PM
Dear Sophia, how about a quick one?The root of all words is (done in caveman voice) "grunt grunt", meaning something similar to what you said (I imagine). So yes, that is the meaning of whatever word best describes the practice of appealing to roots.

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 01:43 PM
That is John Edwards.
It sure is!

Sam
12-02-2008, 02:24 PM
Vulgar basically means "common" (cf. "vulgar Latin"), and by extension rude talk by the common people, but misotheist is a rare word, and I use it quite sparingly when this site as a whole is considered.

Every time you use the word misotheist I will provide a link to this band.
Hopefully they will move up the Google search and overtake you.:whistle:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=184236081

Aaron Guthrie
12-02-2008, 02:29 PM
What does "misotheist" mean?

Sam
12-02-2008, 02:33 PM
Click on the link Manga. ;)

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 03:18 PM
Every time you use the word misotheist I will provide a link to this band.
Hopefully they will move up the Google search and overtake you.:whistle:
I could put a link to Letter to a Maladjusted Misotheist (http://www.tektonics.org/gk/harrisletter.html) (point by point response to Sam Harris) by James Patrick Holding, a good friend of mine, since this is #2. My article Misotheist’s misology (http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5213/) (response to Dawkins v Behe) is #3. I would like to see my colleague Dr Don Batten's new article Is Richard Dawkins an atheist? (http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5560/)reach higher up the rankings, as this argues that Dawko is really a misotheist.

Aaron Guthrie
12-02-2008, 03:39 PM
From that last link
‘Misotheist’?
Dawkins seems more like a God-hater than a genuine atheist. That’s why my colleague, Jonathan Sarfati, invented the word ‘misotheist’ (hater of God10 ), which he has applied to Professor Dawkins and other fanatical opponents of the God of the Bible.So "misotheist" is really a very strong insult. It asserts of those that it is directed at that they activley hate something that they activley deny existing!

Rincewind
12-02-2008, 03:53 PM
From that last linkSo "misotheist" is really a very strong insult. It asserts of those that it is directed at that they activley hate something that they activley deny existing!

I'm not sure it is an insult. It is just a word that has been invented by pathopistisists to describe anyone who lacks the ability believe without evidence.

TheJoker
12-02-2008, 04:24 PM
James Patrick Holding, a good friend of mine.

Is it true that J.P. Holding is a pseudonym for Robert Turkel?

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 06:36 PM
Is it true that J.P. Holding is a pseudonym for Robert Turkel?
It is not. James Patrick Holding is his real name, and the name he was born with. See I am James Patrick Holding—Bend Over Backwards and Kiss That Little Whine Goodbye: Why Skeptics Will Have to Think For a Change by James Patrick Holding (http://www.tektonics.org/jphforever.html).

See also :lol:

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 06:45 PM
I'm not sure it is an insult. It is just a word that has been invented by pathopistisists to describe anyone who lacks the ability believe without evidence.
I lack this ability, yet I am not a misotheist. But you believe in goo to you via the zoo, which really does lack evidence :P

BTW, pistis in the New Testament, translated as "faith", also meant belief, trust and loyalty based on evidence, despite RW's eisegetical twisting. See Fallacious Faith:Correcting an All-too-Common Misconception (http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatfaith.html). RW has just made up a word incompetently by using the lemma instead of the root pisti– to form it. This would be like me inventing a word like "misotheosist".

Desmond
12-02-2008, 07:05 PM
You're just a mimophant — you're happy to dish it out to Christians but can't take it in return.Rubbish. When have I done that? When have I repeatedly called you something that you asked me not to?

Name-calling is your MO, Jono. You might not even notice it because it is so prevalent in your talking to people that it becomes nothing. You might try to tar me with your vile brush, but you don't have the facts to back you up. Not that that stops you claiming anything else.


If you think "misotheist" is potty mouth, then you need to get out more.Oh, so you're defence against being so vile is that you could be worse?

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 07:37 PM
Name-calling is your MO, Jono. You might not even notice it because it is so prevalent in your talking to people that it becomes nothing.
Prevalent? It's only in these debates, and even then not too often. It doesn't spill over into the chess threads for example.


You might try to tar me with your vile brush, but you don't have the facts to back you up. Not that that stops you claiming anything else.
Non-scientist, oppressor of women (by implication with that patriarchy stuff) ...


Oh, so you're defence against being so vile is that you could be worse?
No, that it was nowhere near as vile as you claim. And it's nothing compared to the vitriol on a lot of gutter atheist sites or the pens of the likes of Dawko and Harris.

Desmond
12-02-2008, 07:59 PM
Prevalent? It's only in these debates, and even then not too often.More rubbish. You called me a misotheist in a thread that had nothing to do with religion. Want more examples? Heillary. AlGore. Globull Warmongering. KRudd. Potty-talk is prevalent in your diction.


Non-scientist,Show me half a dozen times that I called you that after you asked me not to.



oppressor of women (by implication with that patriarchy stuff) ...Rubbish. I never claimed anything of the sort, and you know it. You were just so pig-headed in denial of the obvious fact that Jesus lived in a patriachal society that you didn't get the point I was making.



No, that it was nowhere near as vile as you claim. And it's nothing compared to the vitriol on a lot of gutter atheist sites or the pens of the likes of Dawko and Harris.Who gives a hoot about those people? I'm talking about how you talk to me and telling you that I do not like it. Yet you are not a decent enough human being to talk to me, well, decently.

TheJoker
12-02-2008, 10:10 PM
It is not. James Patrick Holding is his real name, and the name he was born with. See I am James Patrick Holding—Bend Over Backwards and Kiss That Little Whine Goodbye: Why Skeptics Will Have to Think For a Change by James Patrick Holding (http://www.tektonics.org/jphforever.html).

See also :lol:

I'll take your word for it, since he is a friend of yours, just googled his name and some of the results said he was called Turkel. Not that it matters just curious.

Adamski
12-02-2008, 10:23 PM
I'm not sure it is an insult. It is just a word that has been invented by pathopistisists to describe anyone who lacks the ability believe without evidence.The ONLY reference Google finds for your word is from you right here on CCF! Congratulations - you too have "created" a new word!:)

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 10:28 PM
More rubbish. You called me a misotheist in a thread that had nothing to do with religion. Want more examples? Heillary. AlGore. Globull Warmongering. KRudd. Potty-talk is prevalent in your diction.
Those aren't potty talk (BTW, it was warm-mongering). Your fellow atheist (see, I didn't say misotheist this time) Matt Sweeny really does use potty talk.


Show me half a dozen times that I called you that after you asked me not to.
Show me even once where you've objected to any of the above.


I'm talking about how you talk to me and telling you that I do not like it. Yet you are not a decent enough human being to talk to me, well, decently.
You're very judgemental at times :P

Kevin Bonham
12-02-2008, 10:35 PM
Need more specifics. Nostradamus wrote in verse, many of the prophecies were specific, although there were some typological applications as per the normal Rabbinic practice (http://www.christian-thinktank.com/typol.html).

OK, do you see any value in the specific prophecies that CameronD regurgitated at the top of the thread?

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 10:37 PM
OK, do you see any value in the specific prophecies that CameronD regurgitated at the top of the thread?
Yes, but not the way CameronD thought.

Rincewind
12-02-2008, 10:40 PM
The ONLY reference Google finds for your word is from you right here on CCF! Congratulations - you too have "created" a new word!:)

Thanks. Although strictly speaking I didn;t invent it, I just made an flawed translation into Greek of a phrase already in wide usage in English for a bit of fun.

Google `faith-sufferer' and you should get a few more hits.

Rincewind
12-02-2008, 10:42 PM
BTW, pistis in the New Testament, translated as "faith", also meant belief, trust and loyalty based on evidence, despite RW's eisegetical twisting. See Fallacious Faith:Correcting an All-too-Common Misconception (http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatfaith.html). RW has just made up a word incompetently by using the lemma instead of the root pisti– to form it. This would be like me inventing a word like "misotheosist".

Ipse dixit, the pathopistisist!

Capablanca-Fan
12-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Thanks. Although strictly speaking I didn;t invent it, I just made an flawed translation into Greek of a phrase already in wide usage in English for a bit of fun.
At least you admit the flaw to others, if not to me :P


Google `faith-sufferer' and you should get a few more hits.
Comes from that halfwit Dawko, an embarrassment to many fellow atheists, who of course decontextualizes pistis and relies on the pseudoscience of mimetics.

Rincewind
13-02-2008, 07:06 PM
At least you admit the flaw to others, if not to me :P

All translations are flawed in some sense Jono. Same goes for the OT, NT etc.

That's why you became a dilettante greek pathopistisist in the first place, remember?

Desmond
13-02-2008, 07:11 PM
Those aren't potty talk (BTW, it was warm-mongering).OK, perhaps "potty-talk" is not the best description. They are certainly examples of your penchant for name-calling.


Your fellow atheist (see, I didn't say misotheist this time) Matt Sweeny really does use potty talk.Thanks, that's all I ask. Not asking for an apology, not asking for the record to be changed, just asking that you don't call me a mistheist in future.

I agree Sweeney is a foul-mouthed Atheist. There are probably lots of them. Just as there are probably lots of well-mannered ones, and Christians who fall into both categories.


Show me even once where you've objected to any of the above.The more relevant test would be for me to show you examples of you calling me a misotheist after I objected to it. I can if you really like. There are probably at least a couple in this thread alone.



You're very judgemental at times :PI know you view that as a virtue, so I am going to say thanks for the compliment! :P

Capablanca-Fan
13-02-2008, 09:20 PM
I agree Sweeney is a foul-mouthed Atheist. There are probably lots of them. Just as there are probably lots of well-mannered ones, and Christians who fall into both categories.
These days there seem to be more WJFs (Wimps for Jesus), such as the Sharia-loving Archbishop, than Christians who follow Christ's Challenge-Riposte method :(


I know you view that as a virtue, so I am going to say thanks for the compliment! :P
That's what I like to hear! :lol: If we are not supposed to judge, then how can we judge anything as ‘good’—including non-judgmentalism?

Capablanca-Fan
13-02-2008, 09:24 PM
All translations are flawed in some sense Jono. Same goes for the OT, NT etc.
Why don't you demonstrate actual errors?


That's why you became a dilettante greek pathopistisist in the first place, remember?
Right, just to poke fun at amateur attempts to form new worlds, without the class of "misotheist".

Rincewind
13-02-2008, 09:40 PM
Why don't you demonstrate actual errors?

I didn't say errors. The process of translation is necessarily flawed as words in one language don't mean exactly the same in another language. At best it is a closest match but the meaning is necessarily changed.


Right, just to poke fun at amateur attempts to form new worlds, without the class of "misotheist".

Trying to think occasionally, Jono. The reason you studied greek is to better understand the original meaning of the NT in a form closer to the source.

Seeing as you have demonstrated no basis of knowledge of the way I derived the term, you don't have many runs on the board in the poking fun department.

Still, pathopistisists don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Capablanca-Fan
13-02-2008, 11:47 PM
I didn't say errors. The process of translation is necessarily flawed as words in one language don't mean exactly the same in another language. At best it is a closest match but the meaning is necessarily changed.
Translators asymptotically approach accuracy, since there are ways of matching concepts across any language with the right combinations of words.


Trying to think occasionally, Jono.
I have a basis for believing that there is such a thing as independent thought. But if you're just rearranged pond scum, thought would be nothing more than the motions of atoms in the brain obeying the fixed laws of chemistry.


The reason you studied greek is to better understand the original meaning of the NT in a form closer to the source.
Yeah, mainly. Why whinge when you said yourself that no translation is perfect.


Seeing as you have demonstrated no basis of knowledge of the way I derived the term, you don't have many runs on the board in the poking fun department.
Of course I do. You found out that "faith" in Greek is pistis, and formed your new word from that lemma rather than the stem pist(i)–.


Still, pathopistisists don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
I don't know who these are, except possibly those with a blind faith in atheism.

Rincewind
14-02-2008, 01:25 AM
Of course I do. You found out that "faith" in Greek is pistis, and formed your new word from that lemma rather than the stem pist(i)–.

Wrong. But I'll let you have a second guess.

Capablanca-Fan
14-02-2008, 10:32 AM
Wrong. But I'll let you have a second guess.
Not really interested in why you made a mistake, just that you did.

Rincewind
14-02-2008, 02:52 PM
Not really interested in why you made a mistake, just that you did.

Without knowing the reason you cannot say it was a mistake. Go on, have another guess, you should be able to work it out eventually.

Capablanca-Fan
14-02-2008, 03:11 PM
Without knowing the reason you cannot say it was a mistake. Go on, have another guess, you should be able to work it out eventually.What's the point? It's enough that your neologism is as ugly as "misotheosist" would be, and for the same reason.

Try "pistipath". It has some plausibility since "retinopathy" means "disease of the retina", although "naturopathy" doesn't mean "disease of nature" but someone who ostensibly uses natural means to cure disease.

Rincewind
14-02-2008, 03:13 PM
What's the point? It's enough that your neologism is as ugly as "misotheosist" would be, and for the same reason.

Your thinking is too narrow. Try to be a bit more lateral.

Garrett
22-02-2008, 06:52 AM
I think everyone is ready for another prophesy Cammo.

CameronD
23-02-2008, 01:44 AM
I'm not sure... Jono, Boris and Rince cant get along

I'll think about it

Garrett
23-02-2008, 07:27 AM
actually - while you're thinking about it Cammo...

If God decided to send another prophet, or speak through another prophet, how would you decide whether he (and most of them have been he's) is a crackpot or a genuine prophet ?

Desmond
23-02-2008, 08:59 AM
Still waiting for Jerusalem to be inhabited by dragons, according to Jeremiah 9:11 (http://www.genesis.net.au/~bible/kjv/jeremiah/)

Capablanca-Fan
23-02-2008, 12:01 PM
Still waiting for Jerusalem to be inhabited by dragons, according to Jeremiah 9:11 (http://www.genesis.net.au/~bible/kjv/jeremiah/)
Try a modern translation from Bible Gateway (http://www.biblegateway.com/):


"I will make Jerusalem a heap of ruins,
a haunt of jackals;
and I will lay waste the towns of Judah
so no one can live there." (NIV)


I will make Jerusalem a (A)heap of ruins,
A haunt of (B)jackals;
And I will make the cities of Judah a desolation, without inhabitant." (NASB)

Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C. He left a remnant in Judah, which made the mistake of rebelling in 581 B.C., and this led to the rest of them being carted off to Babylon. Once again, these are facts that are not in dispute.

Capablanca-Fan
23-02-2008, 12:01 PM
actually - while you're thinking about it Cammo...

If God decided to send another prophet, or speak through another prophet, how would you decide whether he (and most of them have been he's) is a crackpot or a genuine prophet ?
One idea would be to check with the previous prophecies in the Scriptures. That would make me skeptical automatically:


In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. (Hebrews 1:1–2)

Garrett
23-02-2008, 05:25 PM
that's great thanks Jono !

It's just the other night I had a dream about an eagle, a lion, and a bear.

The eagle pecked out the lions left eye and the bear shit in the woods.

I was just worried about saying anything in case Cammo and his mates started following me around thinking I was the messiah or something.

Cheers
Garrett.

Desmond
23-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Try a modern translation from Bible Gateway (http://www.biblegateway.com/):


"I will make Jerusalem a heap of ruins,
a haunt of jackals;
and I will lay waste the towns of Judah
so no one can live there." (NIV)


I will make Jerusalem a (A)heap of ruins,
A haunt of (B)jackals;
And I will make the cities of Judah a desolation, without inhabitant." (NASB)And why should that translation be preferred?


Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C. He left a remnant in Judah, which made the mistake of rebelling in 581 B.C., and this led to the rest of them being carted off to Babylon. Once again, these are facts that are not in dispute.No mean feat for a man who eats grass, had eagle feathers where his hair should have been, and bird claws for feet. Daniel 4:32-33.

Capablanca-Fan
23-02-2008, 08:41 PM
And why should that translation be preferred?
Because it's closer to the original meaning. Why should we use an archaic one?


No mean feat for a man who eats grass, had eagle feathers where his hair should have been, and bird claws for feet. Daniel 4:32-33.
He evidently had a condition called clinical lycanthropy, consistent with reports by secular writers of the time (http://www.tektonics.org/af/danieldefense.html#mad), so his hair and nails were not cut, hence the expression. This was a judgement from God for his pride in his military conquests.