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DanielBell
22-12-2007, 07:27 AM
8/8/8/6pp/5k2/8/5K1P/8 b - - 0 40
Can black win? Black to move.

I was playing black, my continuation was:

40... h4 41. Kg2 g4 42. Kf2 g3+ 43. Kg2 Kg4 44. h3+ Kf4 45. Kf1 Kf3 46. Kg1 g2 47. Kh2 g1=Q+ 48. Kxg1 Kg3 49. Kh1 Kxh3 50. Kg1 Kg3 51. Kh1 h3 52. Kg1 h2+ 53. Kh1 Kh3 1/2-1/2

I'm sending my opponent the link to this thread aswell so if you have any tips for him feel free to share them.

DanielBell
22-12-2007, 07:31 AM
Event: Online Chess
Site: Chess.com
Date: 2007.12.09
Round: 1
White: mattc0m
Black: DanielBell
Result: 1/2-1/2
WhiteElo: 1299
BlackElo: 1410
TimeControl: 1 in 1 day

1. e4 d5 2. f3 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. b3 Bxc3 5. dxc3 dxe4 6. Qxd8+ Kxd8 7. Bb2 Nf6 8. c4 Nbd7 9. fxe4 e5 10. Nf3 Nxe4 11. Bxe5 Nxe5 12. Nxe5 Nd6 13. O-O-O Re8 14. Nxf7+ Kd7 15. Nxd6 cxd6 16. c5 Re6 17. Bc4 Rf6 18. Rhe1 b6 19. cxd6 Rxd6 20. Re6 Rxd1+ 21. Kxd1 Bb7 22. Kd2 Bxg2 23. Kd3 Bf1+ 24. Kd4 Bxc4 25. Re4 Bf1 26. c4 Re8 27. Rxe8 Kxe8 28. b4 b5 29. cxb5 Bxb5 30. Kc5 a6 31. Kb6 Ke7 32. Ka5 g5 33. a4 Bf1 34. b5 axb5 35. axb5 Bxb5 36. Kxb5 Ke6 37. Kc4 Kf5 38. Kd3 Kf4 39. Ke2 h5 40. Kf2 h4 41. Kg2 g4 42. Kf2 g3+ 43. Kg2 Kg4 44. h3+ Kf4 45. Kf1 Kf3 46. Kg1 g2 47. Kh2 g1=Q+ 48. Kxg1 Kg3 49. Kh1 Kxh3 50. Kg1 Kg3 51. Kh1 h3 52. Kg1 h2+ 53. Kh1 Kh3 1/2-1/2

This is the entire game.

DanielBell
22-12-2007, 07:35 AM
Starting to think the bishop sac for the last pawn there was really stupid, should have used it just to block his queening square, eh?

CameronD
22-12-2007, 08:01 AM
Starting to think the bishop sac for the last pawn there was really stupid, should have used it just to block his queening square, eh?

Haven't got much time, but Bg2,would have given you more time and put his king to far from the action.

Spiny Norman
22-12-2007, 11:17 AM
Daniel, I think you were winning up until your 38.Kf4 ... if you went to g4 instead (38.Kg4) then you can win the h2 pawn. e.g.
1.e4 d5 2.f3 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.b3 Bxc3 5.dxc3 dxe4 6.Qxd8+ Kxd8 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.c4 Nbd7 9.fxe4 e5 10.Nf3 Nxe4 11.Bxe5 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 Nd6 13.0-0-0 Re8 14.Nxf7+ Kd7 15.Nxd6 cxd6 16.c5 Re6 17.Bc4 Rf6 18.Rhe1 b6 19.cxd6 Rxd6 20.Re6 Rxd1+ 21.Kxd1 Bb7 22.Kd2 Bxg2 23.Kd3 Bf1+ 24.Kd4 Bxc4 25.Re4 Bf1 26.c4 Re8 27.Rxe8 Kxe8 28.b4 b5 29.cxb5 Bxb5 30.Kc5 a6 31.Kb6 Ke7 32.Ka5 g5 33.a4 Bf1 34.b5 axb5 35.axb5 Bxb5 36.Kxb5 Ke6 37.Kc4 Kf5 38.Kd3 Kg4 39.Ke3 Kh3 40.Kf3 g4+ 41.Kf4 h5 and wins

Kevin Bonham
22-12-2007, 11:23 AM
It's also a good idea in principle not to bring the h-pawn up in these kinds of positions but to leave it there so you can decide later whether to move it one square or two. For instance even if white can get in the corner and save the h-pawn, then whether the ending is a win or a draw could depend on whether white's king is on g1 or h1 at the point black finally plays ...g3. If you hold back the h-pawn then should white's king get into the corner you can decide between ...h6 and ...h5 in a way that forces white to go where you want him to.

I'm not completely certain, but I think the diagram position at the top of the thread is a draw.

Denis_Jessop
22-12-2007, 05:38 PM
It's also a good idea in principle not to bring the h-pawn up in these kinds of positions but to leave it there so you can decide later whether to move it one square or two. For instance even if white can get in the corner and save the h-pawn, then whether the ending is a win or a draw could depend on whether white's king is on g1 or h1 at the point black finally plays ...g3. If you hold back the h-pawn then should white's king get into the corner you can decide between ...h6 and ...h5 in a way that forces white to go where you want him to.

I'm not completely certain, but I think the diagram position at the top of the thread is a draw.

In the diagrammed position, if B is trying to win, advancing the RP first is no way to do it. But the position is drawn anyway. Paul Keres has the identica position with colours reversed in his Practical Chess Endings, p. 36, diag. 41, after the first moves. The position he cites has the Ks on the knight's file but the first moves he gives transfers them to the B file giving rise to the position diagrammed in this thread but with colours reversed. With B (our example not his) to move he says no progress can be made after only 2 moves ( B moves either Ke4 or g4) and the opposing K just moves to either e2 or g2 and back to f2 again. Moreover Keres says it is drawn even with W to move.

DJ

Aaron Guthrie
22-12-2007, 05:52 PM
Tablebase says draw! Also, last move to win was 39...Kg4

Capablanca-Fan
23-12-2007, 11:37 AM
Event: Online Chess
Site: Chess.com
Date: 2007.12.09
Round: 1
White: mattc0m
Black: DanielBell
Result: 1/2-1/2
WhiteElo: 1299
BlackElo: 1410
TimeControl: 1 in 1 day

1. e4 d5 2. f3 e6 [2... e5. Since White has wimped out of taking on d5, there is no point reinforcing it] 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. b3 Bxc3 5. dxc3 dxe4 [try not to give away castling unless the Qs and quite a lot of other pieces have been exchanged] 6. Qxd8+ Kxd8 7. Bb2 Nf6 8. c4 Nbd7 9. fxe4 e5 10. Nf3 Nxe4 11. Bxe5 Nxe5 12. Nxe5 Nd6 13. O-O-O Re8 [clearly an oversight, but this is a problem with a K stuck in an open centre] 14. Nxf7+ Kd7 15. Nxd6 cxd6 16. c5 Re6 17. Bc4 Rf6 18. Rhe1 b6 19. cxd6 [19. Bb5+ Kd7 20. Re7+ would clean up quickly] 19... Rxd6 20. Re6 [20. Bb5+ Kc7. 21. Re7 wins quickly; the move played is fancy but ineffective, merely putting the R in a loose position] 20... Rxd1+ 21. Kxd1 Bb7 22. Kd2 [now it's time to defend with 22. Re2, when White should still win with best play] 22... Bxg2 23. Kd3 [a losing blunder] 23... Bf1+ 24. Kd4 Bxc4 25. Re4 Bf1 26. c4 Re8 27. Rxe8 Kxe8 28. b4 b5 [no need, although it should still win easily] 29. cxb5 Bxb5 [when you must give up a piece for a P, try to delay this as long as possible. Also, learn the rule of the square. Black's Q is inside the bP's square, so it can take care of it. But White's K is too far from Black's Ps, e.g. 29... g4 30. Kb4 h5 31. Kc3 h4 32. Kd2 g3 33. hxg3 h3! and queens, because the White K is outside its square. But if you can't calculate this, you could move your K up and play Bg2 to sac on b7, saving tempi. Actually it's hard for White even to get this far because 29... Kd6 30. b6 loses the P to 30... Kc6] 30. Kc5 a6 31. Kb6 Ke7 32. Ka5 g5 33. a4 Bf1 34. b5 axb5 35. axb5 Bxb5 36. Kxb5 Ke6 37. Kc4 Kf5 38. Kd3 Kf4 [as Spiny said, head for the hP with 38... Kg4] 39. Ke2 h5 40. Kf2 h4 41. Kg2 g4 42. Kf2 g3+ 43. Kg2 Kg4 44. h3+ Kf4 45. Kf1 Kf3 46. Kg1 g2 47. Kh2 g1=Q+ 48. Kxg1 Kg3 49. Kh1 Kxh3 50. Kg1 Kg3 51. Kh1 h3 52. Kg1 h2+ 53. Kh1 Kh3 1/2-1/2

DanielBell
23-12-2007, 01:29 PM
ty for feedback