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Kevin Bonham
17-12-2007, 10:32 PM
As punishment for winning the FIDE World Cup, international man of mystery Gata Kamsky has been sentenced to play an eight game match with big bad Veselin Topalov in Bulgaria. There is no word yet on how many free points Topalov will be permitted to gain by throwing a hissy-fit at any given stage of the match. Minimum net prize fund for the match to go ahead is $US150,000 and the match would be held after the Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championship match, which is scheduled to be held between May and September.

Given Kamsky's play since his return to competitive chess and in particular in winning the World Cup, do you think he will be a threat in this contest or will he be sent back to wander the globe with his tail between his legs?

Bill Gletsos
17-12-2007, 10:34 PM
Perhaps Kamsky can get his dad to help him in dealing with Danilov. ;)

Kevin Bonham
17-12-2007, 10:36 PM
Perhaps Kamsky can get his dad to help him in dealing with Danilov. ;)

Perhaps those two should play a chessboxing match in another room at the same time!

Garvinator
17-12-2007, 10:41 PM
Perhaps Kamsky can get his dad to help him in dealing with Danilov. ;)
Was this idea taken from chessbase?


A number of readers have suggested that the Kamsky-Topalov match could become really exciting if the American reactivates his famously belligerent father Rustam, to counter the activities of Topalov's manager Silvio Danailov. "That would be a wonderfully thrilling matchup," wrote one wag, "with explosive off-the-board play. We look forward to daily blow-by-blow reports on your news page."

Bill Gletsos
17-12-2007, 11:34 PM
Was this idea taken from chessbase?No.
I thought of it a while back.

Garrett
18-12-2007, 06:44 AM
slightly off topic but was there a reason why the stadium was very nearly empty for the final game Kamsky-Shirov ?

If it was in Brisbane I would have gone twice. (edit - but my insanity is self evident in that I turn up to watch Boris play live).

Cheers
George.

Aaron Guthrie
18-12-2007, 10:04 AM
slightly off topic but was there a reason why the stadium was very nearly empty for the final game Kamsky-Shirov ?It wasn't. It was just full of those people that get out of shot whenever they see a photo being taken.

Aaron Guthrie
18-12-2007, 10:07 AM
Given Kamsky's play since his return to competitive chess and in particular in winning the World Cup, do you think he will be a threat in this contest or will he be sent back to wander the globe with his tail between his legs?Given that the last time he lost a world championship match he quit chess to become a doctor, and given that this isn't even a world championship match, I expect he will be very highly motivated to not lose.

Capablanca-Fan
18-12-2007, 11:20 AM
As punishment for winning the FIDE World Cup, international man of mystery Gata Kamsky has been sentenced to play an eight game match with big bad Veselin Topalov in Bulgaria. There is no word yet on how many free points Topalov will be permitted to gain by throwing a hissy-fit at any given stage of the match.
Probably none unless Geurt Gijssen is arbiter again, he who thinks that checkmate in blitz doesn't end a game (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=6929). :P :wall: :wall:

Garvinator
18-12-2007, 01:16 PM
I see the majority of the respondants so far have heaps of confidence in fide's match organisational abilities :whistle:

bill718
18-12-2007, 03:33 PM
I think your colorful assesment of this match may be a bit too dramatic.
I think Kamsky will view this match as an opportunity to win some prize money, and to compete, which he clearly likes to do. I'm confident this match will be decided on the chess board. Not because someone decided
to throw a "hissy fit".

:cool:
williamportor@hotmail.com

Garvinator
11-04-2008, 12:22 PM
I see the majority of the respondants so far have heaps of confidence in fide's match organisational abilities :whistle:
I wish I could pick lotto numbers with this much certainty ;)


FIDE extends deadline for Topalov-Kamsky, Bulgarians protest

10.04.2008 – The match between Gata Kamsky and Veselin Topalov for the right to challenge the World Champion is scheduled for the second half of 2008. The Bulgarian side offered to finance and stage the match, but Kamsky balked at playing on the territory of his opponent. Now FIDE has extended the deadline for rival bids by twelve days. The Bulgarian Chess Federation has protested sharply.

On the FIDE web site (which has a new design) we find the following terse press release:

Bids for the Match V.Topalov - G. Kamsky

Wednesday, 09 April 2008

FIDE President has authorised the extension of the deadline for receiving bids for the match V. Topalov - G. Kamsky until April 23rd 2008.

On Thursday the Bulgarian Chess Federation reacted to this release with a protest declaration, which was passed on to the Bulgarian site Chessdom for translation and publication.
The Bulgarian Chess Federation with protest declaration
regarding the Topalov - Kamsky match

On 25th of June 2007 on the presidential board meeting in Tallinn, FIDE decided that the semi final match of the world championship cycle (2008-2009) between Gata Kamsky and Veselin Topalov will take place in the second half of 2008 in Bulgaria. The same decision was confirmed at the 78th FIDE congress in Antalya in November 2007. The Bulgarian Chess Federation expressed it's readiness to provide the necessary prize fund of US $150,000 and to cover all additional taxes and expenses around it's organization.

The contract for the match had to be signed in Singapore. But that did not happen. At this meeting, which took place without the presence of a Bulgarian delegate, FIDE (unknown under whose pressure and in whose interest) changed the decision from the congress and decided to seek another candidate for the organization of the match, offering a bid for increasing the prize fund. To the possible candidates was given a deadline 11th of April 2008. The term is over. There are no offers for organizing the match in the FIDE office. The information that has been published in certain media for possibilities the match to take place in USA, Lvov (Ukraine), or Elista (Russia) have nothing to do with the reality.

Instead of following the decisions taken at the 78th congress, the FIDE President Kirsan Ilymzhinov has extended the bidding period until April 23rd. With this act he one more time shows that is serves certain circles and that he is under enormous pressure which does not help chess.

The Bulgarian Chess Federation severely objects to the last decision of Kirsan Ilyumzhinov and insists on FIDE giving in to outside pressure and to firmly resist any attempt for the resurrection of chaos in the world of chess, and to follow the decisions of its governing body – the Congress.

The Bulgarian Chess Federations shows its readiness to organize this match and to guarantee equal conditions to both players. No hosting of chess matches, except the Elista 2006 one, has ever affected their outcome. The optimal conditions are guarantee for opportunity for creative work. This we find as a necessary condition for every chess match and it will be guaranteed in Bulgaria!

We declare our readiness to sign the contract for with FIDE the upcoming match Topalov - Kamsky and to start preparation.

Bulgarian Chess Federation,
Sofia, April 10, 2008

The following cronology of events leading up to the current controversy over the venue of the Kamsky-Topalov match was put together by Chessdom.
Chronology of the Kamsky-Topalov match

December 16, 2007: Kamsky wins the World Cup, to play Topalov in November
American GM Gata Kamsky defeated GM Alexei Shirov (Spain) 2.5:1.5 in the final of the World Cup 2007 in Khanty-Mansiysk, Russia, and earned the right to play Veselin Topalov for the special challengers' match decided by FIDE in June 2007.

11.01.2008 Kamsky does not want to play the match with Topalov in Bulgaria
Immediately after winning the Chess World Cup, Kamsky stated in the press room that he will not play in Sofia and preferred a neutral field. On January 11 2008 Valeri Bovaev [Vice President of the Russian Chess Federation, President of the Kalmyk Chess Federation] said: "Immediately after we learned that Kamsky refuses to play the semi final in Sofia, we decided the best place for this match would be Elista. Elista has historically been a leading chess center, where several matches have taken place – Karpov-Kamsky, the reunification match Topalov-Kramnik, the 33rd Chess Olympiad, and many other tournaments." Asked if he was not worried about a new "toilet scandal", similar to the one in Topalov-Kramnik, Bovaev answered that he knows very well the two grandmasters and that they are "gentlemen" and "intelligent young people".

In January 2008: USA emerges as a possibility

Zhivko Ginchev of the Focus news agency reported that the US Chess Federation wanted to organize the match between Gata Kamsky and Veselin Topalov. FIDE had decided that the USA had until March 31 to make a bid that was better than that of the Bulgarian, which would have the chance to equalize it and keep the match in Sofia.

11.02.2008 FIDE press release on Kamsky-Topalov

FIDE announced that it had accepted an offer for the WCC Challengers Match Kamsky-Topalov 2008 by the Bulgarian Chess Federation. However, after the recent FIDE Presidential Board meeting in Singapore and following discussions with all parties involved, FIDE decided the following in order to try to improve the financial terms and conditions for both players:

a) if by 11 April 2008, FIDE receives a bid with a net prize fund of 250,000 USD (minimum) from any country other than USA, Bulgaria, Russia and Spain, then the match will be organised in that country with the highest bid.

b) if by 11 April 2008, FIDE receives a bid with a net prize fund of 250,000 USD (minimum) from USA, Russia or Spain, the organisers in Bulgaria will be requested to match that bid by 30 May 2008. If Bulgaria matches the new bid, the event will be organised in Bulgaria. If Bulgaria refuses, then the match will be organised in the bidding country.

c) if by 11 April 2008 no such bids arrive, the match will be organised in Bulgaria with a net prize fund of 150,000 USD.

15.03.2008 Kamsky-Topalov in Lviv, Ukraine

Alexander Chernenko, Gata Kamsky's manager, claimed in an interview with "Sport Express" that the match Kamsky-Topalov will take place in Lviv, Ukraine, for a prize fund "several times larger" than the US $250.000 USD offered from Bulgarian sponsors. Chernenko said the deal was "99.9% certain", but that he would publicly announce the details when the bank guarantees had arrived. The Ukranian Chess Federation and the Lviv City Administration would coordinate the event.

27.03.2008 Boris Kutin on Kamsky-Topalov

Boris Kutin, president of the ECU, told Chess Today: "My personal opinion is that the match should be held in Bulgaria. FIDE tried to find another country to organize the event and raised the requirements about the prize fund, but I am not optimistic that candidates will be found." Speculations start emerging on the possible refusal of Kamsky to play the match if it takes place in Bulgaria. In that case, he will be substituted by the second the the World Cup, Alexei Shirov. This possibility was mentioned by FIDE delegates at the Presidential Board Meeting last month in Istanbul.

You may also want to peruse large sections of the often heated correspondence between the Kamsky camp and FIDE, which was published by Spanish playright Fernando Arrabal. Gripping stuff.

Kevin Bonham
11-04-2008, 12:49 PM
It would be very funny indeed if FIDE awarded hosting rights to the USCF. Surely Topalov would refuse to play if that happened!

Garvinator
11-04-2008, 12:56 PM
It would be very funny indeed if FIDE awarded hosting rights to the USCF. Surely Topalov would refuse to play if that happened!
Especially if the bid from the USCF came after the initial deadline.

I very much doubt that there will be a bid from the USCF since they have so much in-fighting and bickering going on.

Leonid Sandler
11-04-2008, 08:25 PM
Just in .Topalov-Kamsky match will be played in Lvov(Ukraine) with prizemoney 750000 american dollars(excluding payment to FIDE)
Source -Silvio Danailov (please see www.chesspro.ru).

CameronD
12-04-2008, 12:53 AM
http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4564

CameronD
12-04-2008, 01:01 AM
Just in .Topalov-Kamsky match will be played in Lvov(Ukraine) with prizemoney 750000 american dollars(excluding payment to FIDE)
Source -Silvio Danailov (please see www.chesspro.ru).


I believe its just a bid, who knows what FIDE are capable of

Denis_Jessop
12-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Just in .Topalov-Kamsky match will be played in Lvov(Ukraine) with prizemoney 750000 american dollars(excluding payment to FIDE)
Source -Silvio Danailov (please see www.chesspro.ru).

The other day FIDE extended the closing date for bids to 23 April. ChessBase News reports the Ukrainian matter as a bid with a link to a report by Yuri Vasiliev on Chess Pro but it is in Russian so I can't read it and the link that Leonid gave doesn't work for me. As there are apparently no other bids it may seem reasonable to expect that the bid will succeed. But who knows. On the ACF Council we are used to this kind of situation ;)

DJ

Bill Gletsos
12-04-2008, 01:11 PM
.... and the link that Leonid gave doesn't work for me.I have fixed the link.

Denis_Jessop
12-04-2008, 06:14 PM
I have fixed the link.

Thanks, Bill. I even found that the Google translation looks pretty accurate.

DJ

Kevin Bonham
16-05-2008, 03:34 PM
Chessbase is now claiming Lvov confirmed for 26th November 2008 to 11th December 2008.

Garvinator
18-05-2008, 02:22 AM
Chessbase is now claiming Lvov confirmed for 26th November 2008 to 11th December 2008.
Doubts are now being expressed about how certain the deal really is, report from Susan's site www.susanpolgar.blogspot.com

Kevin Bonham
18-05-2008, 01:46 PM
Doubts are now being expressed about how certain the deal really is, report from Susan's site www.susanpolgar.blogspot.com

Yes, I used the word "claiming" because I was a little cagey about a claim of a confirmed match that relies solely on the say-so of the manager of one of the players. We shall see.

Denis_Jessop
18-05-2008, 05:13 PM
Yes, I used the word "claiming" because I was a little cagey about a claim of a confirmed match that relies solely on the say-so of the manager of one of the players. We shall see.

It may be that part of the uncertainty is because funds from Kamsky's manager are in transit as appears from the Polgar blog. Here is FIDE's Press Release of 15 May:


FIDE received today the following bid from Mr Alexander Chernenko, manager of GM Gata Kamsky, for the WCC Challengers Match 2008 Kamsky - Topalov. The World Chess Federation is expecting the confirmation of the wire transfer from its bankers in Switzerland in order to finalise all the remaining details for this great event.

There is also a PDF of the Kamsky bid on the same page.

DJ

Garvinator
21-05-2008, 02:37 AM
So, which poll option is now favourite? ;)

Garvinator
23-05-2008, 02:51 AM
Seven days since the last bid extension. :confused:

WhiteElephant
23-05-2008, 08:54 AM
Garvin, are you going to accept my friend request on Facebook or what? :)

Garvinator
23-05-2008, 09:15 AM
Garvin, are you going to accept my friend request on Facebook or what? :)
Or what ;) Shows how little I use facebook :P

Kevin Bonham
29-05-2008, 09:27 PM
And now Shirov wants a piece of the action (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4659) and is very willing to go to Bulgaria to get it, if Gata isn't interested.


With this short press release I would like to bring attention to the following facts:

1. In spite of having passed all the possible deadlines, FIDE still has not announced the venue of the match Topalov-Kamsky. That means that the match should normally take place in Bulgaria because the Lvov offer seems not to have been materialized.

2. Mr. Gata Kamsky has declared that he does not wish to play in Bulgaria. According to the match regulations he should be replaced by me in this case.

3. It is absolutely clear that the silence and uncertainty should end and the firm decision about the forthcoming match should be taken. Nobody can wait forever and this concerns the reserve players as well.

Alexei Shirov,
Tarragona, 29.05.2008

A Shirov-Topalov match would be great entertainment (especially as Shirov has the wood on Topalov head-to-head despite Topalov being higher rated.)

FIDE have given the chess world so much of the mushroom treatment concerning what is going on with the Kamsky-Topalov match that I am leaning towards the bottom option in the poll!

Bill Gletsos
29-05-2008, 09:32 PM
There is a FIDE Presidential Board meeting this weekend in Athens, so I expect an announcement early next week.

eclectic
29-05-2008, 09:50 PM
There is a FIDE Presidential Board meeting this weekend in Athens, so I expect an announcement early next week.

(early) next year you mean?

;)

Kevin Bonham
01-06-2008, 10:42 PM
Yury Vasilyev on chesspro.ru reports an interview with Kirsan to the effect that Lvov is most definitely on and that Kirsan was to announce it over the weekend.

Garvinator
02-06-2008, 02:38 AM
Yury Vasilyev on chesspro.ru reports an interview with Kirsan to the effect that Lvov is most definitely on and that Kirsan was to announce it over the weekend.
I will wait till there is a full official announcement ;)

Kevin Bonham
02-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Finally official:

http://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/2970-fide-president-guarantees-topalov-kamsky-match


FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has announced that the World Championship Challenger Match between Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) and Gata Kamsky (USA) will take place in Lvov, Ukraine in November 2008.

The organiser offered a prize fund of 750,000 USD and to hold the match on the “neutral” territory of Ukraine, as the players wanted to avoid Bulgaria or the USA. FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov guarantees the organiser’s offer by backing the event from his personal finances.

FIDE Presidential Board acknowledged the offer as well as the guarantee and assigned FIDE Deputy President Georgios Makropoulos to conclude the final contracts and to check the availability of the finances. The Match will be held in dates between November 26th and December 14th 2008.

Garvinator
02-06-2008, 04:12 PM
So once again, Kirsan has to dip into his 'own' pocket to make a fide event happen. Ridiculous.

littlesprout85
02-06-2008, 05:45 PM
Looks like the game is onz :)

Topalov looks to be in good shape. With that kinda $ He should be very Alert & prime time ;) Also its the right time of the year to have such an event. Giving plenty of time to set up the forum. Looks like a great Christmas for topalov.

-sprout :)

Desmond
03-06-2008, 12:24 PM
Would the fund be split 500/250 for winner/loser?

Garvinator
25-07-2008, 10:54 AM
From www.susanpolgar.blogspot.com


Topalov has not signed contracts for the match with Kamsky and the World Mind Sports Games
Danailov informs Chessdom.com in a short telephone call
Special report by Chessdom.com

Chessdom.com has received a telephone call from Silvio Danailov with interesting information. Topalov's manager claims that his client has not signed contracts for the match with Kamsky, nor for the World Mind Sports Games scheduled to take place this year in Beijing.

"Following the information that was published these days on your website, I have to inform that Topalov has not signed yet the contracts for the match with Kamsky. One for the WMSG in Beijing is also not present," said Danailov. "The only sure participations for Veselin Topalov are in Villarrobledo and in the Grand Slam Final."

With the FIDE President Kirsan Ilymzhinov guaranteeing the money and Lvov starting preparations for the match everything seemed calm. However, the call from Danailov brings up more questions about the status of the match. Topalov's manager did not want to reveal more information in the short telephone call and confirmed he will say more after Villarrobledo is over.

Kevin Bonham
03-08-2008, 05:32 PM
Assuming this match goes ahead I am not optimistic about Kamsky's prospects. Immediately after the World Cup win I thought he had a serious chance but his form then has been pretty patchy and last night he succumbed to a pretty shabby looking kingside hack from Topalov's second - if he's not going to win that sort of game he will have a lot of trouble defending against Topalov.

Garvinator
20-09-2008, 10:38 PM
New update, nothing really new.

http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/09/topalov-kamsky-and-other-things.html

Q: And the question that most of us are interested in. Will match Kamsky-Topalov take place as planned?

A: You know that we have a sponsor. At least he claims that he wants to be a sponsor for this match to take place in Ukraine. He was supposed to send the money to FIDE many months ago. For the last few weeks we are hearing "tomorrow, tomorrow, the money is going to be transfered". FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, who knows the sponsor, they are friends, is aware of the serious situation and that is why he personally guaranteed the prize fund. So even if the sponsor does not proceed with deposing the prize fund to FIDE bank account, because this is the key point, then Mr.Ilyumzhinov will find the solution.

Our problem, at the moment, is that as long as money is not on the FIDE bank account, we cannot even go to Ukraine and speak with the potential organizer. We cannot sign the final undertaking with the players before we know where are they going to play. On the other hand, up to this point, we could have had already discussed several details concerning this match.

In fact, to tell the truth, the side of Gata Kamsky is not very helpful. I invited the players to discuss technical details that do not depend on the playing venue. But the Kamsky team is waiting to see who is the organizer and where the match is going to take place and only then they want to arrange the details. In my opinion, this is not fair. One example, just to illustrate, I asked if there should be private rooms for the players or not. If the match takes place in Sofia, then no, if it is in Ukraine then we will have them. In my opinion, this should be solved irrespective of the organizers. Are there private rooms or not? There are many similar details that do not depend on where the match will actually take place. We should agree now on the private rooms, what kind of control, what kind of let's say "anti-cheating" measures will be taken.

I have to say that negotiations with Anand and Kramnik, regarding their own match, were much easier than the situation that we are facing now.

Q: But the time is running out?

A: The time is running out. I think in the next few days, one or two weeks the most, we should know what is going on. I have time, by the end of September, to visit Ukraine and discuss the preparation, if we really have an organizer there. And once we know the specific city where the match is going to take place, then I can proceed negotiations with the players.

Thank you Mr. Makropoulos for accepting the interview.

Igor_Goldenberg
21-09-2008, 12:36 PM
New update, nothing really new.

http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/09/topalov-kamsky-and-other-things.html
I can see that Mr Macropoulus is very toilet-oriented.
I wonder why Kamsky side does not want private rooms in Sofia. Completely unreasonable, isn't it:wall:

Ivanchuk_Fan
27-09-2008, 09:16 AM
http://www.chessvibes.com/fide/bulgarian-chess-federation-mr-ilymzhinov-please-inform-us/#more-2542

The above link has the latest news on the Kamsky-Topalov match. The president of the Bulgarian Chess Federation, Stefan Sergiev, has sent a letter to Ilyumzhinov, saying that nothing has happened with the match since Kirsan personally guaranteed the prize-fund on June 1.

ER
27-09-2008, 10:38 AM
...Mr Macropoulus ....

Makropoulos! :)

Cheers and good luck!

ER
27-09-2008, 10:40 AM
I hope you got the joke of (m)nomenclatura in previous heading! :P

Kevin Bonham
30-10-2008, 08:57 PM
I see that Topalov is listed as Bulgaria's board one for the Olympiad. I therefore suspect that the match has been abandoned or at least postponed.

eclectic
30-10-2008, 09:07 PM
I see that Topalov is listed as Bulgaria's board one for the Olympiad. I therefore suspect that the match has been abandoned or at least postponed.

Peter Svidler was intimating as much during his stint on the ICC/chessfm broadcast last night.

Garvinator
30-10-2008, 09:34 PM
Bergil, Garrett, Jono and myself are in the box seat for this poll ;)

Kevin Bonham
30-10-2008, 10:12 PM
Bergil, Garrett, Jono and myself are in the box seat for this poll ;)

Yes, I wish now that I had voted that way but at one stage it did look vaguely like a goer. :rolleyes:

Garvinator
05-11-2008, 06:14 AM
Announcement of the FIDE President concerning the match Topalov - Kamsky:
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/11/topalov-kamsky-update.html

Dear chess friends,

Yesterday 3 November 2008, FIDE received the following message from Alexander Chernienko, the manager of GM Gata Kamsky:

"Due to technical reasons (copy of the banking letter re delay of the transfer was sent by me on the 1st of November 2008), the payment of 935,000 USD according to the BID for the organisation of the Kamsky-Topalov match to the FIDE account, will be effected on the 5th November 2008."

As we have been receiving such letters by Mr Chernienko for a long time now, with yet no transfer made to the FIDE bank account (and we are only one month before the start of the event), this will be the last extension accepted by FIDE as all possible time limits, in order to assist Mr Chernienko with his bid, have been exhausted.

If the amount of 935,000 USD is not transferred to the bank account of FIDE by Wednesday 5 November 2008, FIDE will re-open negotiations with the Bulgarian Chess Federation, the original organiser awarded to hold this match.

FIDE is obliged to take all necessary steps in order to ensure that the Challengers Match shall indeed take place and a worthy challenger for World Champion Vishy Anand will be established. We are all looking forward to this exciting match!

Gens Una Sumus,
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov
FIDE President

Kevin Bonham
05-11-2008, 09:13 PM
I wouldn't have blamed FIDE had they pulled stumps on this one long ago - this ongoing saga with the transfer has been ridiculous.

Garvinator
05-11-2008, 09:28 PM
I wouldn't have blamed FIDE had they pulled stumps on this one long ago - this ongoing saga with the transfer has been ridiculous.
Well they have a 'genuine' bid from Sofia, so if Ukraine falls over, they have to take Sofia, but then Kamsky has said that he will not play in Sofia.

So I guess they are trying to avoid having to go to Sofia with all the arguments that will cause.

Of course, I have no sympathy for Fide (again) on this one either. Fide created this situation when they stuck the Topalov clause in, so they are now just being hoisted on their own petard.

Kevin Bonham
05-11-2008, 09:56 PM
Of course, I have no sympathy for Fide (again) on this one either. Fide created this situation when they stuck the Topalov clause in, so they are now just being hoisted on their own petard.

They probably don't care. They can say they tried to get a neutral venue but it couldn't be done so Sofia it is. If Kamsky pikes they just award the right to Topalov and that gives them one less match they can't be bothered running, while setting up an Anand-Topalov match for next year.

Phil Bourke
06-11-2008, 12:42 AM
They probably don't care. They can say they tried to get a neutral venue but it couldn't be done so Sofia it is. If Kamsky pikes they just award the right to Topalov and that gives them one less match they can't be bothered running, while setting up an Anand-Topalov match for next year.
Would this situation open the door for Kamsky to challenge on the basis that under the original conditions, he won the right to play the winner of Anand-Kramnik, then FIDE put in the extra match against Topalov? Probably not worth fighting about, but Kamsky does live in that nation of lawyers :)

Bill Gletsos
06-11-2008, 11:28 PM
From the USCF President to the FIDE President.

Thank you for your email. Everyone hopes that Mr. Chernienko's money finally arrives. But if not, why would FIDE even think about reopening negotiations with the Bulgarian Chess Federation?

On June 1, FIDE issued and posted the press release below, announcing that the Lvov match and its prize fund were guaranteed by the backing of FIDE President Ilyumzhinov. Surely, FIDE cannot be considering reneging on this public promise? This would be a terrible blow to the prestige of the organization and of world chess, as well as probably being illegal.

Bill Goichberg
President, US Chess Federation

Kevin Bonham
06-11-2008, 11:32 PM
Mr Goichberg has a point, and expresses it very succintly. :lol:

Garvinator
07-11-2008, 08:21 AM
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/11/breaking-news-re-awarding-topalov.html


Moscow, 6 November 2008

Announcement of the FIDE President concerning the match Topalov - Kamsky

Dear chess friends,

As already known, FIDE had initially reached a decision to award the Challenger's Match Topalov - Kamsky to the Bulgarian Chess Federation which offered a prize fund of 150,000 USD.

Afterwards, and following consultations with both sides, FIDE gave the opportunity to Alexander Chernenko, the manager of GM Gata Kamsky, to bring in an improved bid with Lviv suggested by Mr Chernenko as the host city. The prize fund offered by GM Gata Kamsky's manager was 750,000 USD. Since then, FIDE received several letters, by banks supposed to co-operate with Mr Chernenko, stating that the funds were "on their way". But up to this moment, and despite numerous reminders to Alexander Chernenko, no bank guarantees have been provided and of course no transfer of the prize fund has been made to the bank account of FIDE.

At this point I must say that I have deeply regretted the trust which I had shown to Alexander Chernenko, concerning the reliability of his offer. The actions of Mr Chernenko indicate an abuse of right to invoke my guarantee which was declared after his own request and in good faith to help him secure the necessary funds. Furthermore, I understand the complaints of the Bulgarian Chess Federation concerning the procedure followed, although FIDE was only trying to improve the financial conditions for both players.

In order to restore the procedure towards holding this very important match, FIDE announces the following:

a) The Bulgarian Chess Federation will be re-awarded with the event if it accepts in written form, by 14 November 2008 12:00 GMT, to hold the match with a prize fund of 250,000 USD plus 50,000 USD as contribution to FIDE and all organising expenses covered. In this case, the dates of the match Topalov - Kamsky remain as already announced (29 Nov. - 12 Dec. 2008) and I intend to nominate FIDE Vice President Mr William Kelleher of USA as the FIDE Supervisor of the Organising Committee (*duties of the FIDE Supervisor as annex 1 to this announcement). The confirmation letter of the Bulgarian Chess Federation should be sent by email at office@fide.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it and by registered post to the FIDE Secreteriat, address: 9 Syggrou Ave, 11743 Athens, Greece.

b) By 14 November 2008, 12:00 GMT, both players have to officially confirm, in written form and in a clear and explicit way, that they will play the match. If GM Topalov refuses to confirm his participation, then GM Kamsky qualifies automatically for the 2009 WCC match. If GM Kamsky refuses to confirm his participation, he will be replaced by GM Shirov (the runner-up of the World Cup 2007). The confirmation letters should be sent by email at office@fide.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it and by registered post to the FIDE Secreteriat, address: 9 Syggrou Ave, 11743 Athens, Greece.

c) If the Bulgarian Chess Federation will not confirm that it accepts the financial requirements of (a), an open bidding procedure will be launched with a deadline of 31 December 2008. The best bid will be awarded with the event which will then be held in February or March 2009.

The unfortunate handling of the situation by Alexander Chernenko has brought us to a point where the time limits are very tight. With this procedure, FIDE puts the Challengers Match back on track and with a clear timetable. We are all looking forward to a great match which will produce a worthy challenger to World Champion Vishy Anand for the year 2009.

Gens Una Sumus!
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov
FIDE President


ANNEX 1

Duties of the FIDE Supervisor for the Challengers Match 2008

A FIDE Supervisor will be appointed who will be above the Organising Committee in
all issues involving:

a) fairness concerning treatment of both players in respect of organisational issues,
b) equal playing conditions
c) anti-cheating measures
d) fair publicity of both players through the event's press office

The FIDE Supervisor can request from the organizer and at their expense, any additional security arrangement he finds necessary in order to secure a fair match and equal match conditions for the players.

The Organising Committee has to follow the orders of the FIDE Supervisor in all issues involving the above aspects before and during the match. Any decision of the FIDE Supervisor can be appealed by one of the players ONLY to the Appeals Committee.

The position of FIDE Supervisor was first introduced in the WCC match Anand - Kramnik this year with FIDE Deputy President Mr Georgios Makropoulos holding this position. Although it is not included in the regulations yet, FIDE will establish the role of FIDE Supervisor in all important matches of the World Championship cycle.

Released by FIDE, 6 November 2008
Looks like Bill Goichberg's response to Fide got action going, but not quite the action he was looking for. So much for Kirsan's guarantees. Probably he could not find an oil barron to rough up again for the money.

Miranda
07-11-2008, 09:43 AM
Well, at least they've put solid conditions on it. If the Bulgarian Chess Federation doesn't like the offer, they can just reject it and then it'll be moved elsewhere, but the moving elsewhere might be a problem.

Kevin Bonham
07-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Imposing a change of venue and conditions on the players at a few weeks' notice and threatening to exclude them if they don't agree is ridiculous and unprofessional.

Garvinator
07-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Imposing a change of venue and conditions on the players at a few weeks' notice and threatening to exclude them if they don't agree is ridiculous and unprofessional.
Ridiculous and unprofessional- Fide's real motto.

ER
07-11-2008, 10:36 PM
Dear Mr Makropoulos
I hope you have received my e-mail with the request for an interview for the related interviews thread of this Forum the URL of which is attached in my original.
Now, if you happen to have had a look at the contents of this thread and disagree with some of the terms used in describing your organisation, please do not take it out on me.
After all GG and Kev are great guys and hold very responsible positions in our Federal and State Chess Bodies. At the same time being Australians cannot help of being frank in expressing their opinions and exercising their democratic rights no matter whom these opinions are expressed to.
On the other hand, I think if you approach Kev, I mean the other Kev in Canberra not the one in Tasmania, and put in a few good words so we can get some Govt money for our game, I am sure everything will be forgiven, forgotten and made a joke of over a few cold ones.
Also, don't forget Victorians aren't such a bad mob, its them NSW, QLD and TAS guys who cause all the trouble! Plus we have a sexier Pres in our CV!
CAGLES,
JaK.
PS Also if you happen to read postings of this Forum plz avoid stuff written by Ax and A/C, they are banned anyway.
Also don't look at avatars such as Howie's. The poor bloke is getting married in a few hours and has just gone bonkers.
Cheers!

MichaelBaron
08-11-2008, 10:16 AM
As pointed out in Rustam Kamsky's (Gata's Dad) letter published today by www.chessbase.com, Illumzhinov has personally guaranteed the prize fund and other conditions required and now that the sponsorship has fallen through, he should honour his word.

Kevin Bonham
09-11-2008, 04:46 PM
b) By 14 November 2008, 12:00 GMT, both players have to officially confirm, in written form and in a clear and explicit way, that they will play the match. If GM Topalov refuses to confirm his participation, then GM Kamsky qualifies automatically for the 2009 WCC match. If GM Kamsky refuses to confirm his participation, he will be replaced by GM Shirov (the runner-up of the World Cup 2007).

Something not covered in this decree is what happens if they both refuse. Would that mean we get an Anand-Shirov world title match? :lol:

Gata Kamsky comments (http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5004). He seems to see little hope for the match and is hinting at legal action.

Miranda
09-11-2008, 10:31 PM
zomg.

it's a few games of chess!

can't be THAT hard to organise!

CameronD
09-11-2008, 10:32 PM
zomg.

it's a few games of chess!

can't be THAT hard to organise!

It is if your name is FIDE and you want someone else to pay you to do your job.

Miranda
09-11-2008, 10:36 PM
It is if your name is FIDE and you want someone else to pay you to do your job.

good point.

But it's so... hmm idk. frustrating.

just makes me want to :wall:

Miranda
19-11-2008, 06:43 AM
Apparrently this morning contracts for the match itself were being drafted. It's expected to go ahead in Feburary.

Kevin Bonham
19-11-2008, 06:33 PM
Yes, thanks to TCG for the link to this detailed report here (https://webcast.chessclub.com/blog/). The report gives Feb 16-28 as the likely dates causing Topalov to miss Linares.

Good to see that an appropriate delay has been agreed given the change of venue and that FIDE's daft ultimatum to hold the match in Sofia on the original dates appears to have been set aside.

Garvinator
20-11-2008, 07:12 AM
Yes, thanks to TCG for the link to this detailed report here (https://webcast.chessclub.com/blog/). The report gives Feb 16-28 as the likely dates causing Topalov to miss Linares.

Good to see that an appropriate delay has been agreed given the change of venue and that FIDE's daft ultimatum to hold the match in Sofia on the original dates appears to have been set aside.
Premature reporting:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/11/premature-reporting.html

Kevin Bonham
20-11-2008, 08:32 AM
Premature reporting:http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/11/premature-reporting.html

*sigh*

I like this comment:


The distinction is not trivial. A list of matches which were agreed to in principal, and announced by FIDE, but did not take place over the past ten years includes*:

Kasparov vs. Shirov 1999
Kasparov vs. Anand 1999
Kasparov vs. Ponomariov 2003
Kasparov vs. Kasimdzhanov 2004
Topalov vs. Radjabov 2006

The matches failed to occur for various reasons, and are not necessarily relevant to the present match negotiations, but certainly the existence of signed contracts would be a significant milestone.

Denis_Jessop
20-11-2008, 02:33 PM
The FIDE announcement foreshadowed by Israel Gelfer in the report on the Susan Polgar blog is now there with a sting in the tail:


FIDE is pleased to announce that an agreement has been reached for organisation of the Challenger Match between Topalov and Kamsky. There has been full agreement between FIDE and the players regarding all aspects of the Match.

The Match will take place in Sofia, Bulgaria, from 16th to 28th February, 2009 with a prize fund of USD 250,000 which will be shared equally by the players.





Both teams agreed on the following appointments:





Appeals Committee:

Nigel Freeman (BER) Chairman
Boris Kutin (MNE)
Vanik Zakarian (ARM)





Arbiters:

Ignatius Leong (SIN)
Ashot Vardapetian (ARM)



Match Supervisor:

Hal Bond (CAN)





Gata Kamsky announced that Mr Chernenko is no longer his Representative and that he has appointed Emil Sutovsky as his Official Representative in all negotiations and as chief of his delegation and spokesperson for the team.

FIDE is pleased that the meetings with both delegations were conducted in a very friendly and constructive atmosphere and thanks both teams for their cooperation.

But I note that there is no precise statement that contracts have been signed.

DJ

arosar
20-11-2008, 06:21 PM
I bumped into Nigel Freeman last night in the Maritim's hotel bar. He said that contracts will be signed today, Dresden time.

AR

Miranda
20-11-2008, 06:40 PM
OK. I give up on saving up for a car. Instead, I'm saving up to go to wherever the next Olympiad is.

eclectic
20-11-2008, 06:44 PM
it's coming to melbourne
:doh: i let the cat out of the bag :confused:

(one can but dream :whistle:)

arosar
20-11-2008, 07:36 PM
OK. I give up on saving up for a car. Instead, I'm saving up to go to wherever the next Olympiad is.

Don't bother. The next one will be in Siberia, I think. Dresden is cold enough, imagine Siberia!!

AR

Miranda
20-11-2008, 08:11 PM
Ouch.

But then again, I do love skiing!

Kevin Bonham
12-02-2009, 09:15 PM
Well it looks like this really is on. Starts Monday Tuesday night our time I suppose.

I'll be surprised if this one even goes the distance (hilarious as it would be if Kamsky won). I hereby point the finger of doom at Topalov to win 4.5-2.5.

Kaitlin
12-02-2009, 09:20 PM
Post a time is you work one out :)

Kevin Bonham
12-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Official site is at http://www.wccc2009.com/

Game 1 actually starts on Feb 17 not Feb 16 (16 is the opening ceremony) so this will really kick off on Tuesday night our time.

There are games on 17th, 18th, 20th, 21st, 23rd, 24th, 26th, 27th and then tiebreaks (if needed) on the 28th.

All games start 1500 local time. I think Bulgaria is nine hours behind us so that will be midnight AEDT.

ER
12-02-2009, 11:16 PM
I didn't know Kamski has never won a game vs Topalov! Aren't we going to have a poll on this one Kev?

ER
12-02-2009, 11:17 PM
I am also blind thanks!

ER
12-02-2009, 11:18 PM
a thinking blind person since I have voted too!

CameronD
12-02-2009, 11:22 PM
a thinking blind person since I have voted too!

a thinking blind bad chess player person

Garvinator
13-02-2009, 12:41 AM
Congratulations to these fine five gentlemen for correctly answering the poll question to this thread: bergil, Garrett, ggrayggray, Jono, Phil Bourke.

The thread concerns the challenge match for 2008 and as this match is now 2009, we were answering for the match taking place in 2008, which did not happen.

So I declare, Who cares? The match will probably not happen: as the correct poll answer as the match did not happen in 2008 :owned: :owned: :owned: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ER
13-02-2009, 12:56 AM
LOL Correct!!!

Garvinator
13-02-2009, 02:05 AM
Sometimes people just do not realise how silly their comments are when they make them:

From Topalov's latest interview on chessbase about his match with Kamsky:


I know three variations from my own experience: a match between two players, the tournament format and the knockout system. All three are fine for me. But once you begin a cycle you have to finish it. That is the most important point. If the World Chess Federation simply changes the rules during a running cycle, as it has done so often in the past years, then it loses credibility. FIDE need not be surprised if top players abandon the world championship cycle.So Topalov is criticising Fide for changing the world championship structure just before he is about to begin a match that was personally created to keep him in the world championship title hunt :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How ridiculous :hand:

Saragossa
13-02-2009, 02:53 PM
I didn't know Kamski has never won a game vs Topalov! Aren't we going to have a poll on this one Kev?

Fischer had the same previous record with Spassky (not exactly the same but never beaten) so anything can happen I guess.

Miranda
14-02-2009, 10:51 PM
I don't think Kamsky has a chance... Topalov is in good form, and as far as I know, he can beat Kamsky!

CameronD
14-02-2009, 11:11 PM
I don't think Kamsky has a chance... Topalov is in good form, and as far as I know, he can beat Kamsky!

I dont its possible to predict these matches. Opening preparation can turn matches on their head like the Anand series.

Miranda
14-02-2009, 11:23 PM
I dont its possible to predict these matches. Opening preparation can turn matches on their head like the Anand series.
Although I wanted Kramnik to win, I didn't think he really had a chance. He's too old!

Adamski
14-02-2009, 11:51 PM
Game 1 in 2 days time (their time). Looking forward to following the match.

Kevin Bonham
14-02-2009, 11:55 PM
Although I wanted Kramnik to win, I didn't think he really had a chance. He's too old!

Not as old as Anand is! (Anand born 1969, Kramnik 1975).

Miranda
15-02-2009, 12:19 AM
Not as old as Anand is! (Anand born 1969, Kramnik 1975).
True, but I've always thought of Kramnik as being a chess person forever, while Anand was... well, not new, but not well known.

Capablanca-Fan
15-02-2009, 01:03 AM
True, but I've always thought of Kramnik as being a chess person forever, while Anand was... well, not new, but not well known.
What?? He was one of the world's top players before you were born, one of the few fighting it out to challenge the World Champ ;)

CameronD
15-02-2009, 01:05 AM
What?? He was one of the world's top players before you were born, one of the few fighting it out to challenge the World Champ ;)

Everyone here was playing chess before Miranda was born

Garvinator
15-02-2009, 01:07 AM
True, but I've always thought of Kramnik as being a chess person forever, while Anand was... well, not new, but not well known.
Anand challenged Kasparov, the then world champion in 1995 for the world championship in a match. So Anand has been around for plenty long enough at the top.

Litterly at the top as it turns out as that match was played at the top of the World Trade Centre in New York.

Kevin Bonham
15-02-2009, 01:13 AM
What?? He was one of the world's top players before you were born, one of the few fighting it out to challenge the World Champ ;)

He did go through a long period where he didn't feature in any real world championship matches, though.

Capablanca-Fan
15-02-2009, 01:30 AM
He did go through a long period where he didn't feature in any real world championship matches, though.
But for all of Miranda's lifetime, he was in the top 4 in the world, and mostly 2nd or 3rd (http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/PlayerProfile.asp?Params=199510SSSSS3S003424000000 111000000000001310100), so I'm not sure that counts as "not well known".

Desmond
15-02-2009, 07:51 AM
Congratulations to these fine five gentlemen for correctly answering the poll question to this thread: bergil, Garrett, ggrayggray, Jono, Phil Bourke.

The thread concerns the challenge match for 2008 and as this match is now 2009, we were answering for the match taking place in 2008, which did not happen.

So I declare, Who cares? The match will probably not happen: as the correct poll answer as the match did not happen in 2008 :owned: :owned: :owned: :lol: :lol: :lol:You should know that poll questions do not have to match the thread title. It's part of their charm. ;)

Kevin Bonham
15-02-2009, 03:26 PM
The best thing about this match so far is the bird of prey in the banner on the official site (http://www.wccc2009.com/en/information.html) and the expressions of the two players flanking it.

If anyone can identify the bird pictured I'd appreciate that. I'd like to think it is a vulture for obvious symbolic reasons.

Kaitlin
18-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Is it a Griffon? <- nope cause it looks like Griffons have white heads

Its a statue isnt it .. I think it is

ER
18-02-2009, 10:22 PM
The best thing about this match so far is the bird of prey in the banner ... If anyone can identify the bird pictured I'd appreciate that. I'd like to think it is a vulture for obvious symbolic reasons.

It is the Eagle. Symbol of pride, freedom and defiance in all Balkan states, including my beloved Bulgaria of course! :)

Kevin Bonham
18-02-2009, 10:23 PM
More information required; which species of eagle? :D

ER
18-02-2009, 10:39 PM
ok here it is
Imperial Eagle (Aquila heliaca)
Happy now? :P

Actually, the Latin / Greek Translation is Sun Eagle, I do not know why and how it was transformed to Imperial Eagle. No Sun Emperors in the Balkans as far as I know!

Kevin Bonham
18-02-2009, 10:52 PM
ok here it is
Imperial Eagle (Aquila heliaca)
Happy now? :P

Not just happy but impressed.

It is being argued that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Imperial_Eagle is the bird!

I wonder about (i) length of bill and (ii) degree of ruffling on neck compared with head.

Any comments from the resident ornithologist(s)? :P

ER
18-02-2009, 11:04 PM
While I recognise the danger of this thread becoming an ornithological discussion arena with unforeseen consequences I could not resist some extra research on the topic!
http://www.imperialeagle.hu/parlagisasa.html

Kevin Bonham
19-02-2009, 07:36 PM
Thread closed to keep discussion of games in the match on a single thread.