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Basil
14-10-2007, 01:06 AM
1. I would appreciate commentary on this position from players rated 1900+

2. I would appreciate (big ask) someone with a good engine plugging this position in and letting it run at full strength to its conclusion with results posted here.

This is a (one move removed) variation from a game I played as black last week. I rejected this variation for a far weaker one. I'm trying to establish whether I should play for such positions in the future. While my box suggests a -.7 or similar for black (after a minute's consideration), I suspect that black is OK.

[Event "Club Champs"]
[Date "2007.10.11"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Arash Boora"]
[Black "Howard"]
[WhiteElo "1750"]
[BlackElo "1523"]
[ECO "B01"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 3. d4 Qxd5 4. Nc3 Qd6 5. Nf3 g6 { (-0.75) -0.45 5... Nc6
6. Bc4 a6 7. O-O Bf5 8. Bg5 O-O-O 9. Bxf7 Nxd4 10. Nxd4 Qxd4 11. Qxd4 } 6. Nb5
Qb6 7. c4 c6 8. c5 Qd8 9. Nc3 Bg7 10. Bc4 O-O 11. O-O b5 12. cxb6 axb6

Aaron Guthrie
14-10-2007, 01:38 AM
Certainly looks ugly, probably clear ad for White, but maybe a good plan for Black makes it only slight ad. You ask "is it viable?", but I am not sure what that means. I have certainly defended much uglier positions successfully, so in that sense it is viable. But then I wouldn't consider getting this position an opening success, so in that sense it isn't.

I think the real problem is, how should Black continue? Say White plays 13.Ne5, c6 is weak, f7 is weak, and maybe d5 will be a strong move in the future. Black can play b5-b4, which takes some bite out of the threats on f7 (Qb3 isn't an option at least immediately), and takes White's knight away from d5 (at least for the moment, and maybe Black can even play Nd5 next), however it is ugly as hell. I don't see good spots for Black pieces (that c6 weakness is annoying!), while White's seem to be effective.

Ok, so my intuition is that it is viable (at the least in the knuckle down defence sort of way), but that it requires a good knuckle down to make it viable! (And I don't know what the right way to knuckle down is.)

Basil
14-10-2007, 01:42 AM
That's what I was after. Thanks.

Basil
14-10-2007, 04:39 AM
I plugged a (computer continuation) game into a box (as I requested of others in the first thread). Not good. I'm starting to form the opinion that I don't want to head for these sorts of positions.

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 3. d4 Qxd5 4. Nc3 Qd6 5. Nf3 g6 { (-0.75) -0.45 5... Nc6
6. Bc4 a6 7. O-O Bf5 8. Bg5 O-O-O 9. Bxf7 Nxd4 10. Nxd4 Qxd4 11. Qxd4 } 6. Nb5
Qb6 7. c4 c6 8. c5 Qd8 9. Nc3 Bg7 10. Bc4 O-O 11. O-O b5 12. cxb6 axb6 13. Bb3
Na6 14. Bg5 Nc7 15. Ne5 Bb7 16. Re1 Nfd5 17. Ng4 Qd7 18. Rc1 Ne6 19. Bh6 Ndf4
20. Ne5 Qd6 21. Bxg7 Kxg7 22. g3 Nd5 23. f4 Nb4 24. Nxf7 Qxd4+ 25. Qxd4+ Nxd4
26. Rxe7 Nxb3 27. Ng5+ Kg8 28. axb3 Bc8 29. Rxh7 Bf5 30. Rd1 Rfd8 31. Re1 Nd3
32. Ree7 Nc5 33. g4 Rd2 34. Na4 Bc2 35. b4 Bxa4 36. Reg7+ Kf8 37. Rxg6 Rd1+ 38.
Kg2 Bb3 39. Rh8+ Ke7 40. Rxa8 Nd7 41. Ra7 Kf8 42. Kf2 Bc4 43. Rxc6 Bb5 44. Rh6
Rd2+ 45. Kg3 Rd3+ 46. Kh4 Re3 47. Ne6+ Kg8 48. Nd4 Rd3 49. Nxb5 Rd2 50. Nd6 Nf8
51. h3 b5 52. f5 Rd5 53. f6 Rg5 54. Kxg5 Ne6+ 55. Kh4 Nd8 56. Ra8 Kf8 57. Rxd8#
1-0

Garvinator
14-10-2007, 09:39 AM
I take it that is not the actual game, is it Gunner?

When I saw your game, you were about to move Kf8 I think. Can you put up the whole main game please.

Basil
14-10-2007, 01:34 PM
I take it that is not the actual game, is it Gunner?
No. I have amended my post (above) to better reflect why I posted that game and how it came about. Sorry for the confusion.


When I saw your game, you were about to move Kf8 I think. Can you put up the whole main game please.
I'd rather not!