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Basil
24-09-2007, 08:41 PM
Have you ever had the majority in a BNK v. K ending?
Those that vote yes are invited to say how many times in how many years (or games) of competitive chess.

Capablanca-Fan
24-09-2007, 10:04 PM
See also the Bishop and Knight Mate thread (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=6554).

Basil
24-09-2007, 10:06 PM
See also the Bishop and Knight Mate thread (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=6554).
Thanks for linking, Jon. I recall it was a recent discussion, and that was my primary motivation in raising Silman's claim.

Aaron Guthrie
24-09-2007, 11:22 PM
Have you ever had the majority in a BNK v. K ending?No.

Those that vote yes are invited to say how many timesZero, one, or every time.

Intuition
25-09-2007, 04:19 PM
i had in once in a non tourney game...i told my opponent that i didnt know how to do it but he just resigned away because he had 'lost' :)

Basil
25-09-2007, 04:33 PM
i had in once in a non tourney game...i told my opponent that i didnt know how to do it but he just resigned away because he had 'lost' :)
See? Silman was right ;) Just kidding.

Ian Rout
25-09-2007, 08:34 PM
I voted Yes. As noted on the other thread, I've had it once and also been on the other side once.

eclectic
25-09-2007, 08:38 PM
we should have as part of the login process here a K v B|N|K simulator so that we are required to effect mate on it before we are allowed to post

:eek:

:uhoh:

:confused:

Intuition
26-09-2007, 11:41 AM
we should have as part of the login process here a K v B|N|K simulator so that we are required to effect mate on it before we are allowed to post

:eek:

:uhoh:

:confused:

lol..i think we should start with being able to mate with K and Q v K first :)... that would wipe out a fair few users alone i think ...:D

Basil
26-09-2007, 01:44 PM
lol..i think we should start with being able to mate with K and Q v K first :)... that would wipe out a fair few users alone i think ...:D
:lol: :eek: :uhoh:

CameronD
26-09-2007, 02:41 PM
We need more people who don't know how to do it to post, so that I can add your name in the list. That way I'll know who I can simplify into a draw against in desparation

:P :P :uhoh: :pray:

eclectic
27-09-2007, 02:03 AM
i've made and uploaded a shot of the settings for the games filter in chessbase needed to find pure K v K|B|N endgames

Rincewind
27-09-2007, 09:51 AM
No in 350 competitive games over 7 years. I have been in a N+B+4P v 5P ending but my opponent didn't play for many moves and it never looked like becoming a pawnless affair.

I have a vague feeling that I might have faced it at the board at some time. Either in friendly or in rapid or blitz. But I think it would have been last century.

Adamski
08-10-2008, 09:56 PM
See also the Bishop and Knight Mate thread (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=6554).As noted in the thread Jono cited, I have now had the BN (and no pawns either side)majority once in over 800 competitive games over 40 years. I have a 100% record!:)

Adamski
08-10-2008, 09:58 PM
I see after my vote the score is 10 have not had the B and N majority and only 5 have. There must be more votes to come in!
(K)Night all!

Bereaved
08-10-2008, 10:01 PM
Hi everyone,
I have had it twice, and I would have played more than 800 games, I think, not quite sure. But the interesting thing is that in both games I was black, and in both the final mating position was B: Kg3, Bf3, Nh3 W: Kh1....that seemed also quite odd!!

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

PS the first game had the mate on move 101, whereas the second was on move 100; guess next time I'm aiming for 99

Adamski
08-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Hi everyone,
I have had it twice, and I would have played more than 800 games, I think, not quite sure. But the interesting thing is that in both games I was black, and in both the final mating position was B: Kg3, Bf3, Nh3 W: Kh1....that seemed also quite odd!!

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

PS the first game had the mate on move 101, whereas the second was on move 100; guess next time I'm aiming for 99Whatever you do, don't aim for 139!!

Kevin Bonham
23-02-2013, 04:55 PM
Leonard Barden reports that in the recent Moscow Aeroflot (now a rapid/blitz event, alas) Kamsky had three consecutive games against the same opponent that ended in KBN v K, for two wins and a loss!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/22/moscow-aeroflot-controversies

Adamski
23-02-2013, 05:58 PM
Wow! Astronomical odds against that

Garrett
07-05-2013, 06:38 PM
Looks like Ushenina 2491 couldn't mate with bishop and knight versus king.

Adamski
07-05-2013, 06:42 PM
Looks like Ushenina 2491 couldn't mate with bishop and knight versus king.
That is staggering. There are so many resources available to tell you how to do so I would have thought anyone at that rating would be able to do it.

Oepty
07-05-2013, 07:22 PM
Looks like Ushenina 2491 couldn't mate with bishop and knight versus king.

When and where?

Kevin Bonham
07-05-2013, 08:13 PM
When and where?

Round four of Women's Grand Prix first tournament in Geneva.

Ushenina - Girya

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Qb3 dxc4 5. Qxc4 Bf5 6. g3 e6 7. Bg2 Nbd7 8. O-O Be7 9. e3 O-O 10. Rd1 Qc7 11. Nc3 Bg6 12. h3 Rad8 13. Qe2 e5 14. e4 exd4 15. Nxd4 Rfe8 16. Bf4 Qc8 17. Be3 Bb4 18. f3 Qb8 19. Bf2 Bh5 20. Qc2 Bd6 21. Nce2 Bg6 22. a3 h5 23. b4 Ne5 24. Qb3 Nxf3 25. Nxf3 Nxe4 26. Nh4 Nxf2 27. Kxf2 Bh7 28. Nf3 Re7 29. Ra2 Rde8 30. Rad2 Bc7 31. Nfd4 Bb6 32. Qf3 Qe5 33. Kg1 a5 34. Kh1 axb4 35. axb4 Qg5 36. h4 Qh6 37. Nf4 Re3 38. Qxh5 Rxg3 39. Qxh6 gxh6 40. Nh5 Rg6 41. Re2 Rxe2 42. Nxe2 Kf8 43. Bh3 Bc7 44. Bf5 Rd6 45. Rxd6 Bxd6 46. Bxh7 Be7 47. Nhf4 Bxh4 48. Bf5 Ke7 49. Nd3 Kd6 50. Nc3 Kc7 51. Kg2 Kb6 52. Kf3 Bf6 53. Ne4 Be7 54. Bc8 Kc7 55. Bg4 Kb6 56. Nec5 Kb5 57. Nxb7 Bxb4 58. Nxb4 Kxb4 59. Nd8 c5 60. Nxf7 c4 61. Ke2 Kc3 62. Kd1 Kb2 63. Nxh6 c3 64. Bf5 Kb3 65. Bc2 Kb2 66. Nf5 Ka1 67. Ne3 Kb2 68. Nd5 Ka1 69. Ke2 Kb2 70. Kd3 Kc1 71. Ba4 Kb2 72. Nxc3 Ka1 73. Nd1 Ka2 74. Bc2 Ka1 75. Kc3 Ka2 76. Bb3 Ka1 77. Ne3 Kb1 78. Nc2 Kc1 79. Ba2 Kd1 80. Nd4 Ke1 81. Kd3 Kf2 82. Bd5 Kg3 83. Ke3 Kg4 84. Be4 Kg5 85. Kf3 Kf6 86. Kf4 Kg7 87. Kg5 Kf7 88. Kf5 Kg7 89. Bd5 Kh6 90. Ne6 Kh7 91. Kf6 Kg8 92. Nf4 Kh8 93. Be4 Kg8 94. Nh3 Kh8 95. Ng5 Kg8 96. Nf7 Kf8 97. Bh7 Ke8 98. Bf5 Kf8 99. Nh6 Ke8 100. Nf7 Kf8 101. Ne5 Kg8 102. Ng6 Kh7 103. Be6 Kh6 104. Bg8 Kh5 105. Ne5 Kh4 106. Kf5 Kg3 107. Bc4 Kf2 108. Kf4 Ke1 109. Ke3 Kd1 110. Bd3 Kc1 111. Nc4 Kd1 112. Nb6 Kc1 113. Na4 Kd1 114. Be4 Kc1 115. Bd3 Kd1 116. Nb2 Kc1 117. Nc4 Kd1 118. Bg6 Kc1 119. Bf5 Kd1 120. Nb6 Kc1 121. Na4 Kd1 122. Nb2 Kc1 123. Nc4 Kd1 124. Kd3 Kc1 125. Kc3 Kd1 126. Bd3

Bear in mind Ushenina is not just some random player rated just below 2500; she's the FIDE Women's World Champion as a result of their continued use of a silly knockout system. I said yesterday how little I took that seriously and here is one more reason not to.

Capablanca-Fan
08-05-2013, 12:43 AM
Round four of Women's Grand Prix first tournament in Geneva.

Ushenina - Girya

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Qb3 dxc4 5. Qxc4 Bf5 6. g3 e6 7. Bg2 Nbd7 8. O-O Be7 9. e3 O-O 10. Rd1 Qc7 11. Nc3 Bg6 12. h3 Rad8 13. Qe2 e5 14. e4 exd4 15. Nxd4 Rfe8 16. Bf4 Qc8 17. Be3 Bb4 18. f3 Qb8 19. Bf2 Bh5 20. Qc2 Bd6 21. Nce2 Bg6 22. a3 h5 23. b4 Ne5 24. Qb3 Nxf3 25. Nxf3 Nxe4 26. Nh4 Nxf2 27. Kxf2 Bh7 28. Nf3 Re7 29. Ra2 Rde8 30. Rad2 Bc7 31. Nfd4 Bb6 32. Qf3 Qe5 33. Kg1 a5 34. Kh1 axb4 35. axb4 Qg5 36. h4 Qh6 37. Nf4 Re3 38. Qxh5 Rxg3 39. Qxh6 gxh6 40. Nh5 Rg6 41. Re2 Rxe2 42. Nxe2 Kf8 43. Bh3 Bc7 44. Bf5 Rd6 45. Rxd6 Bxd6 46. Bxh7 Be7 47. Nhf4 Bxh4 48. Bf5 Ke7 49. Nd3 Kd6 50. Nc3 Kc7 51. Kg2 Kb6 52. Kf3 Bf6 53. Ne4 Be7 54. Bc8 Kc7 55. Bg4 Kb6 56. Nec5 Kb5 57. Nxb7 Bxb4 58. Nxb4 Kxb4 59. Nd8 c5 60. Nxf7 c4 61. Ke2 Kc3 62. Kd1 Kb2 63. Nxh6 c3 64. Bf5 Kb3 65. Bc2 Kb2 66. Nf5 Ka1 67. Ne3 Kb2 68. Nd5 Ka1 69. Ke2 Kb2 70. Kd3 Kc1 71. Ba4 Kb2 72. Nxc3 Ka1 73. Nd1 Ka2 74. Bc2 Ka1 75. Kc3 Ka2 76. Bb3 Ka1 77. Ne3 Kb1 78. Nc2 Kc1 79. Ba2 Kd1 80. Nd4 Ke1 81. Kd3 Kf2 82. Bd5 Kg3 83. Ke3 Kg4 84. Be4 Kg5 85. Kf3 Kf6 86. Kf4 Kg7 87. Kg5 Kf7 88. Kf5 Kg7 89. Bd5 Kh6 90. Ne6 Kh7 91. Kf6 Kg8 92. Nf4 Kh8 93. Be4 Kg8 94. Nh3 Kh8 95. Ng5 Kg8 96. Nf7 Kf8 97. Bh7 Ke8 98. Bf5 Kf8 99. Nh6 Ke8 100. Nf7 Kf8 101. Ne5 Kg8 102. Ng6 Kh7 103. Be6 Kh6 104. Bg8 Kh5 105. Ne5 Kh4 106. Kf5 Kg3 107. Bc4 Kf2 108. Kf4 Ke1 109. Ke3 Kd1 110. Bd3 Kc1 111. Nc4 Kd1 112. Nb6 Kc1 113. Na4 Kd1 114. Be4 Kc1 115. Bd3 Kd1 116. Nb2 Kc1 117. Nc4 Kd1 118. Bg6 Kc1 119. Bf5 Kd1 120. Nb6 Kc1 121. Na4 Kd1 122. Nb2 Kc1 123. Nc4 Kd1 124. Kd3 Kc1 125. Kc3 Kd1 126. Bd3

Bear in mind Ushenina is not just some random player rated just below 2500; she's the FIDE Women's World Champion as a result of their continued use of a silly knockout system. I said yesterday how little I took that seriously and here is one more reason not to.
Good grief, twice she didn't play the Philidor confinement manoeuvre and allowed the enemy king to escape to the safer corner. Chess teachers should instruct their pupils in the much easier Deletang method to avoid such misses.

Jesper Norgaard
08-05-2013, 03:57 AM
I think it is the first time a World Champion has missed this mate! Ushenina was not in a good mood when she signed the scoresheet.

There is a sad, sad video about this
youtube.com/watch?v=YFF5ibgB6eA

Sometimes chess is just the game of thousand sorrows. Whether learning Deletang (which I personally find a bit confusing, for instance to win this in Blitz) or Philidor's W-maneuver, you have to learn it correctly. It is not enough to know 90% of the W-maneuver and then confuse the final leg of the W as Ushenina did twice. Ush, woman! :wall:

I love the comment of Ushenina's thought process to Olga "I hate you".
And of course Olga's little smirk after signing the result. The WC just joined the club of KBN-failures, it is a long and exclusive list. For instance GM Gilberto Hernández of Mexico is a distinguished member. I managed twice in 1200+ games.

Capablanca-Fan
08-05-2013, 04:34 AM
Sometimes chess is just the game of thousand sorrows. Whether learning Deletang (which I personally find a bit confusing, for instance to win this in Blitz) or Philidor's W-maneuver, you have to learn it correctly. It is not enough to know 90% of the W-maneuver and then confuse the final leg of the W as Ushenina did twice. Ush, woman! :wall:
Shows that the World Women's Champion title is a farce. Judit Polgár mated Ljubojević blindfold with KBN v K.

Jesper Norgaard
08-05-2013, 04:47 AM
Shows that the World Women's Champion title is a farce. Judit Polgár mated Ljubojević blindfold with KBN v K.
I completely agree ;)

Garrett
08-05-2013, 07:17 AM
There is a sad, sad video about this
youtube.com/watch?v=YFF5ibgB6eA


Funny ! :D

But I would not have claimed the draw immediately. I would have let White eventually offer a draw; or claim the draw a couple of moves from mate.

peter_parr
08-05-2013, 08:25 AM
I was fortunate to witness the late Lloyd Fell win this ending in double quick time against IM Guy West in Canberra. Fell played it perfectly without needing to think.

Fred Flatow had this position at adjournment in the 1984 Australian Championship at the Hakoah Club Sydney against IM Stephen Solomon. Once again in this event Lloyd Fell demonstrated the W formation. Flatow won with no problems.

Of course a player 2400+ should be able to work out at the board how to win.
The question is dear reader could you do it in a rapid finish ?

peter_parr
08-05-2013, 09:25 AM
of course in recent times IM Vlad Smirnov has played this ending with great efficiency on a number of occasions.

Oepty
08-05-2013, 03:34 PM
Thank you for the game. I looked up chessbase but they did not have a report of round 4 at that stage.