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Trent Parker
20-08-2007, 03:11 AM
8/8/1KP5/3r4/8/8/8/k7 w - - 1 1

DanielBell
20-08-2007, 08:10 AM
The only thing I could think to do would be pawn to c7???? I sat here with winboard trying to find ways to draw it by sacrificing the rook for the pawn but it seems the pawn can evade capture pretty well with all the white continuations I tried :|

Do I win the prize?

Rincewind
20-08-2007, 09:21 AM
If I remember correctly (I've seen this before so no prize) The idea is 1.c7 then 1....Rd6+ 2.Kb5 Rd5 3.Kb4 Rd4+ 4.Kb3 Rd3+ 5.Kc2!
The king could come to the c-file earlier because fo the line Rd1, threatening Rc1+ and winning the promoted pawn.

No prize as I used memory and did not work it out from scratch.

Edit: That's not quite true. 4.Kc3 is ok because of 4...Rd1 Kc2 but it is only a minor variation.

Igor_Goldenberg
20-08-2007, 11:27 AM
It is a very well known (almost famous) study by Barber, attributed to Saavedra. (hope I spelled the names correctly.)

Igor_Goldenberg
20-08-2007, 11:33 AM
TO Rincewind:

Black can keep resisting 5...Rd4 6.c8Q Rc4+!! 7.Qxc4 stalemate

Basil
20-08-2007, 12:14 PM
It is the Saavedra position. Igor are you saying that it is a draw? It was initially thought to be a draw and then was discovered as a win with ... {white text} under promotion to a rook

Igor_Goldenberg
20-08-2007, 02:18 PM
It is the Saavedra position. Igor are you saying that it is a draw? No, but Rincewind solution wasn't complete.

BTW, Saavedra did not produce this study, just found a key move that Barber missed and showed it to him. Barber, being an honest person, published a correction and credited it to Saavedra. Somehow only Saavedra name remained in the history

Basil
20-08-2007, 03:22 PM
BTW, Saavedra did not produce this study, just found a key move that Barber missed and showed it to him. Barber, being an honest person, published a correction and credited it to Saavedra. Somehow only Saavedra name remained in the history
Indeed. I was unaware of the history until a few months ago when reading some old Australian chess mags and caught a very interesting article by Purdy on the subject - most in depth and ran for more than a couple of pages.

Kevin Bonham
20-08-2007, 04:05 PM
What happened was that Barbier (correct spelling) published the puzzle as a position that had occurred in a real game, and then Saavedra wrote in pointing out the win (see here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess/saavedra.htm)).

Rincewind
20-08-2007, 05:44 PM
To Igor...

Sorry, underpromotion works to avoid that stalemate. So if 5... Rd4 {continued resistance} 6.c8=R {now threatening mate on the a-file} Ra4 7.Kb3 {and mate on the first rank cannot be prevented without giving up the rook}

pax
21-08-2007, 05:04 PM
To Rincewind...

I think he gets it..

Vlad
21-08-2007, 11:01 PM
To pax...

I think he knew it.

Aaron Guthrie
22-08-2007, 12:16 AM
To all

Pineapples!

Rincewind
22-08-2007, 12:36 AM
To Pax...

Yes, I'm sure he did but has Igor didn't post the solution I thought I might as well complete the task I started for the benefit of anyone else who might be interested. It is a beautiful line and I'm a bit disappointed that I had forgotten it after remembering the first part of the solution.

Desmond
24-08-2007, 11:50 PM
I like icecream.

Space_Dude
19-12-2008, 09:18 PM
To Boris:
So do I...

Adamski
24-12-2008, 01:48 PM
To Pax...

Yes, I'm sure he did but has Igor didn't post the solution I thought I might as well complete the task I started for the benefit of anyone else who might be interested. It is a beautiful line and I'm a bit disappointed that I had forgotten it after remembering the first part of the solution.I like the puzzle and the solution - and I like your new sig quote, Rincewind. Is the book a novel? Is it worth reading?
White text: Is the Pope a Catholic?

Kaitlin
27-12-2008, 02:42 PM
without reading the thread.

**solutions should be private tells to the poster..or post answerers... so that the the puzzle last forever**

ps I invented white on white post years ago in shoutbox.. scroll bak if you need to check ...rofl

Rincewind
27-12-2008, 02:53 PM
I like the puzzle and the solution - and I like your new sig quote, Rincewind. Is the book a novel? Is it worth reading?
White text: Is the Pope a Catholic?

The Defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Defense)

The Pope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pope)

Adamski
27-12-2008, 07:15 PM
The Defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Defense)Sounds depressing. Is it worth reading?

Rincewind
27-12-2008, 09:58 PM
Sounds depressing. Is it worth reading?

I can't tell you as I have only seen the film and not read the book. I saw the quote in something from an article in Australian Chess that I was perusing recently:

J. R. Johnstone, How many chess games are there? ... and who wins?, Australian Chess, 4(6) Nov/Dec 2006, pp. 39-41.

Kevin Bonham
27-12-2008, 10:18 PM
I can't tell you as I have only seen the film and not read the book.

The two bear approximately no relation to each other as noted in post 103 (http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary_6.htm) of Tim Krabbe's Open Diary.

The book is indeed "depressing" but also very well written.

Adamski
30-12-2008, 09:00 AM
The two bear approximately no relation to each other as noted in post 103 (http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/diary_6.htm) of Tim Krabbe's Open Diary.

The book is indeed "depressing" but also very well written.Thanks for that link, Kevin. Speelman's position for the movie was interesting. I'll aim to read the book and see the movie - both when time permits.