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PHAT
31-05-2004, 08:12 PM
We are all born with varying degrees of beauty or ugliness. Most people try to some extent to make the best of what they have. When your apperence is important to your income, you take particular care. The way you present can be extremely important to your future - we all know that to be true. So, how do professional sports persons and entertainers go about pulling sponsorships. #1 is results - be a champ. A close #2 is present well - speak well, look good, and you could be endorsing crap for the next 20 years.

There can be no excuse for looking like a derro at a big championship. Now take Captain at this bunch of bush pigs. Half of them look like they just finished hanging around the house all day. No wonder chess sponsorship is hard to come by. They should be dressed to kill, not dressed to swill.

http://wwcc2004.fide.com/main.asp?id=468

Alan Shore
31-05-2004, 08:26 PM
Well, I'm sure there are some there maybe not dressed their best but others are not too bad.

I think Ekaterina Kovalevskaya looks rather sweet :p

jenni
31-05-2004, 08:55 PM
Alexandra Kosteniuk models and endorses watches, so she seems to be doing OK...

jenni
31-05-2004, 09:37 PM
We are all born with varying degrees of beauty or ugliness. Most people try to some extent to make the best of what they have. When your apperence is important to your income, you take particular care. The way you present can be extremely important to your future - we all know that to be true. So, how do professional sports persons and entertainers go about pulling sponsorships. #1 is results - be a champ. A close #2 is present well - speak well, look good, and you could be endorsing crap for the next 20 years.

There can be no excuse for looking like a derro at a big championship. Now take Captain at this bunch of bush pigs. Half of them look like they just finished hanging around the house all day. No wonder chess sponsorship is hard to come by. They should be dressed to kill, not dressed to swill.

http://wwcc2004.fide.com/main.asp?id=468

Shannon made the comment when I read the post to her, that it would be similar to criticising what a swimmer looked like after they haul themsleves dripping from the pool, with hair plastered to their head.

They are dressed comfortably in order to play a long game of chess. None of them appear to be dirty or have holes in their clothes. I have no doubt that whoever wins will have a good outfit to wear to prize giving. Certainly most of the under 16 and under 18 girls who win medals at the World Youth look pretty good when they go on stage.

Kevin Bonham
31-05-2004, 10:07 PM
Matt, least you could have done was post a comparison picture of yourself (taken mid-game) to show how it should be done.

Rincewind
31-05-2004, 10:20 PM
Matt, least you could have done was post a comparison picture of yourself (taken mid-game) to show how it should be done.

And I thought you were going to have a comment on post #3. ;) :hand:

Kevin Bonham
31-05-2004, 10:46 PM
Kosteniuk actually looks quite snappy on the page Matt posted.

The following is the FIDE Handbook comment dealing with dress code for this tournament:

The Commission on Chess Publication, Information and Statistics (CHIPS) stresses the need for all chess players to take more care in their personal appearance. The image of the chess player should be a dignified one, and dressing properly would not only show respect for the game, but also to sponsors, potential or otherwise, to make it worth their while to spend their money.

For example, some federations have barred slippers, sleeveless T-shirts and vests in their tournaments. Those with unkempt and greasy hair should be admonished, as well as those wearing old or torn jeans and battered attire generally.

jase
31-05-2004, 11:12 PM
For the record, Matthew has quite a dapper dress sense; he's usually attired in smart casual at the minimum, and thus raises the standards of appearance at every tournament.

I have not clicked on the link posted in this thread; I feel I need not, since I already have an appreciation of how poorly chess players present themselves. I disagree with Jenni entirely that chess players present well if collecting a prize.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 09:11 AM
Shannon made the comment when I read the post to her, that it would be similar to criticising what a swimmer looked like after they haul themsleves dripping from the pool, with hair plastered to their head.

Fair comment. Now let's ask, what if same said simmer got out and strutted about with their togs fully hidden up their back crack. Would that be comarable to, say, a particular female chess player flossing in public while playing OTB? ["Flossing in public" is having the back of one's G-string fully displayed above the waist band.]


They are dressed comfortably in order to play a long game of chess. None of them appear to be dirty or have holes in their clothes. I have no doubt that whoever wins will have a good outfit to wear to prize giving. Certainly most of the under 16 and under 18 girls who win medals at the World Youth look pretty good when they go on stage.

All this is true enough. However, I am suggesting that many look under presented. To describe a minimum for males is easy - some combo of coat, tie, dress shoes, collar, blah blah blah. Females' minimum are a manifestly more difficult to define. Nevertheless, in western commercial/professional circles, a hint of lippy, blush, and eye liner is expected - the older the more is used. It should be noted, we can all feel just as "compfortable" when well dresses as under dressed.

I must say, that I am far from impressed either, with the disrespectful way males turn up to tounaments. (This topic has been debated else where.) The difference here, is that I am taking issue with the players at the top end, the end that is the public face of chess.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 09:20 AM
The following is the FIDE Handbook comment dealing with dress code for this tournament:

The Commission on Chess Publication, Information and Statistics (CHIPS) stresses the need for all chess players to take more care in their personal appearance. The image of the chess player should be a dignified one, and dressing properly would not only show respect for the game, but also to sponsors, potential or otherwise, to make it worth their while to spend their money.

For example, some federations have barred slippers, sleeveless T-shirts and vests in their tournaments. Those with unkempt and greasy hair should be admonished, as well as those wearing old or torn jeans and battered attire generally.

Will this code be adopted for the biggest chess event Ausatralia has ever seen ?- Mt Buller

jenni
01-06-2004, 09:28 AM
For the record, Matthew has quite a dapper dress sense; he's usually attired in smart casual at the minimum, and thus raises the standards of appearance at every tournament.

I have not clicked on the link posted in this thread; I feel I need not, since I already have an appreciation of how poorly chess players present themselves. I disagree with Jenni entirely that chess players present well if collecting a prize.

Well I guess I was talking about the women and my experience with the girls who go up for the World Under 16 and under 18 - it is always a bit of a fashion parade (apart from the muslim countries where strict dress rules apply).

If we are talking about the average chess male then I agree they are a pretty daggy bunch (apart from the Russian and Ukrainian boys who seem to travel with a suit for the occasion.)

jenni
01-06-2004, 09:35 AM
Fair comment. Now let's ask, what if same said simmer got out and strutted about with their togs fully hidden up their back crack. Would that be comarable to, say, a particular female chess player flossing in public while playing OTB? ["Flossing in public" is having the back of one's G-string fully displayed above the waist band.]

.

This has obviously totally traumatised you Matt! We just keep on hearing about it.

I don't like it either - I come from a generation where no-one would have their undies on display in public! Unfortunately with these damn hipsters that have been popular for a few seasons it does happen and the new generation seem to have a total disregard for such issues. Wait until your girls are 15 and see if you can control them!

jenni
01-06-2004, 09:40 AM
I have not clicked on the link posted in this thread; I feel I need not, since I already have an appreciation of how poorly chess players present themselves. .

well I think you should - Matt is totally over the top on this one. They range from neat casual to really quite snappy.

The Vietnamese girl is wearing a very attractive suit and the others are well co-ordinated with attractive blouses and jackets. They are not the prettiest bunch on the whole (although some are very attractive), but then intelligence and looks don't always go together.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 09:51 AM
This has obviously totally traumatised you Matt! We just keep on hearing about it.


Traumatised? No. More acuritely, it is the murth that the much older find when viewing the exploits of the much younger. :)

arosar
01-06-2004, 09:52 AM
Listen to me. Visible thongs have never been in fashion. And they have been officially uncool since Destiny Child's, 'Nasty Girl'. Tell your kids that if they must wear hipster jeans, they should wear hipster panties. Just a bit of fashion advice.

AR

PHAT
01-06-2004, 09:54 AM
Wait until your girls are 15 and see if you can control them!

They cannot misbehave if they ain't allowed out of the house. ;)

PHAT
01-06-2004, 09:56 AM
Tell your kids that if they must wear hipster jeans, they should wear hipster panties. Just a bit of fashion advice.


No panties is cooler. :uhoh:

jenni
01-06-2004, 10:04 AM
Females' minimum are a manifestly more difficult to define. Nevertheless, in western commercial/professional circles, a hint of lippy, blush, and eye liner is expected - the older the more is used. It should be noted, we can all feel just as "compfortable" when well dresses as under dressed.

.

I just think you are being overly critical of these girls - I just don't see anything wrong with the way they are dressed. For a start most of them are not Western, so I don't think we can apply our dress codes to them.

When I do have to attend a business meeting (as rarely as I can get away with - I always delegate it to staff members), I do put on makeup (although not eye-liner - I think that went out in the sixties? Perhaps you mean mascara?), but I have to say I hate the stuff. Do you ever rub your eyes at a chessboard after concentrating for a couple of hours? I know I do, as my eyes get tired. Well if you are wearing eye-shadow and mascara and you do that - the damn stuff runs and then you really start looking like Jon English on a bad day.

I have to admit though I am mortified and ashamed of my low dress standards. At next Doeberl I will have to put on some make-up - I had no idea that people like Matty would be looking at my aged face and finding it repulsive without the addition of masking make-up.

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 10:54 AM
Matt is totally over the top on this one.

Now there's a news flash! ;)

I think the comments regarding comfort at the board and different cultural orientation are valid. The only ones that are letting the side down (my opinion and and only slightly) are the younger western womens/girls who seem to prefer tee-shirts with slogans on them. However, even they look quite smart compared to the dress code at the average australian weekender. However, given that it is the wch I think they could have made more of an effort. (Howver, note that unlike Amiel, I'm not a fashion guru).

Kosteniuk is dressed very snappily indeed and probably the best dressed of the bunch. But she is after all the FIDE pin-up girl and is paid to endorse Balmain watches, so that is to be expected.

Come on Matt, they're not that bad. Let us in on your hidden agenda.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 11:16 AM
I have to admit though I am mortified and ashamed of my low dress standards. At next Doeberl I will have to put on some make-up - I had no idea that people like Matty would be looking at my aged face and finding it repulsive without the addition of masking make-up.

:oops: Sorry if you took my trirade personally. You were not target. :oops:

PHAT
01-06-2004, 11:27 AM
Come on Matt, they're not that bad. Let us in on your hidden agenda.

OK OK. No they aren't shockingly bad. Some look like they need good tub and a few hours at David Jones, others are most succulent.

Au contraire, there is no hidden agenda, but if I think of one, be assured that I will spill it immeadiately.

jenni
01-06-2004, 12:07 PM
:oops: Sorry if you took my trirade personally. You were not target. :oops:

No you are probably right. Shannon gets very sniffy about my lack of makeup.

It is the problem about being busy and married for 23 years. Something has to go and things like makeup are more of a drag than the fun they were at 15.

(However I do wear lots of jewellery - does that count?)

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 12:19 PM
Nevertheless, in western commercial/professional circles, a hint of lippy, blush, and eye liner is expected - the older the more is used. It should be noted, we can all feel just as "compfortable" when well dresses as under dressed.

If that were true, we would all wear ties and dress shoes to bed!

BTW, I had a look through the link posted and to my untrained eye I think around 80% of the competitors are wearing lipstick and around 50% some form of other makeup. These numbers may be even higher as I was only counting the definites and depending on the colours employed and quality of the photo it may not be obvious. Given the cultural orientation issue I think you don't have a leg to stand on in the make-up argument.

I hope you will be coming to the club tonight in a tux with ample quantities of spack, lippy and liner applied. Don't worry about appearing feminine. John Wayne wore makeup and they called him "The Duke". (NB Mussolini also had this nickname "Il Duce" not sure if he wore makeup but he did invade Abyssinia so there is nothing girly in the nickname). ;)

PHAT
01-06-2004, 12:49 PM
I had a look through the link posted and to my untrained eye I think around 80% of the competitors are wearing lipstick and around 50% some form of other makeup.

It is not the existance of make-up that matters. It is how it is used. Have a look at the prostitutes who inhabit Wentworth St (Port Kembla).:eek:


I hope you will be coming to the club tonight in a tux with ample quantities of spack, lippy and liner applied. Don't worry about appearing feminine.

A chick in a tux? :cool: As Loudon Wainwright the third would say, " I wanna be a lesbian."

Kevin Bonham
01-06-2004, 05:49 PM
A chick in a tux? :cool: As Loudon Wainwright the third would say, " I wanna be a lesbian."

It's "I wish I was a lesbian" and the song takes the mickey out of a woman who said the same thing. Saw him perform said song once and he gave a little introductory ramble about how it came into being.


Will this code be adopted for the biggest chess event Ausatralia has ever seen ?- Mt Buller

Ask Mr Cordover.


. Nevertheless, in western commercial/professional circles, a hint of lippy, blush, and eye liner is expected - the older the more is used.

I don't mind codes that ban specific defined forms of slobbiness (within reason) but codes that say you have to be neat in a particular way strike me as some or all of irrationally traditionalist, sexist and heterosexist.


It should be noted, we can all feel just as "compfortable" when well dresses as under dressed.

I feel significantly less comfortable when wearing a tie (unless it's rather loose and therefore untidy) and would be reluctant to play in an event that required one.

jase
01-06-2004, 09:10 PM
An excellent and self-indulgent opportunity to post this picture of me from the Istanbul Chess Olympiad!

Nails by Laura [a sublime midnight blue]

JGB
01-06-2004, 09:53 PM
Yep, just got round to checking out that site... :eek: dunno what to say, but im with you on this on Matthew. :clap:

I think its better if I say nothing. ;)

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 10:37 PM
I hope you will be coming to the club tonight in a tux with ample quantities of spack, lippy and liner applied. Don't worry about appearing feminine. John Wayne wore makeup and they called him "The Duke". (NB Mussolini also had this nickname "Il Duce" not sure if he wore makeup but he did invade Abyssinia so there is nothing girly in the nickname). ;)

Unfortunately, I didn't have a camera with me tonight. Matt was resplendant in sandals, shorts, tee-shirt with unbottoned casual shirt "thrown" on top.
All circa 1970s by the look them. Straight from the beach to the tournament hall. :lol:

PHAT
01-06-2004, 11:03 PM
Barry, get your facts right. That was my twin brother. He spends a lot of time on the beach like a fat old hippy. Sometimes the drunken sot pretends to be me when I can't make it to the club game. He always loses, I always win.

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 11:11 PM
Barry, get your facts right. That was my twin brother. He spends a lot of time on the beach like a fat old hippy. Sometimes the drunken sot pretends to be me when I can't make it to the club game. He always loses, I always win.

My mistake. My evil twin must have reported it wrong.

Lucena
04-06-2004, 04:37 PM
An excellent and self-indulgent opportunity to post this picture of me from the Istanbul Chess Olympiad!

Nails by Laura [a sublime midnight blue]

Did you lose a bet Jason?