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Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:53 PM
The ACF June 2004 rating lists have been sent to the webmaster and State Rating Officers.

For the June 2004 rating period there were 129 Tournaments rated and 12014 games of which 7148 were in the ACF Classic rating system and 4866 were in the ACF Rapid rating system.


Top Players
2646!! 7 NSW Rogers, Ian [GM]
2505! 0 NSW Wallace, John-Paul [IM]
2494!! 7 VIC Johansen, Darryl K [GM]
2466!! 23 QLD Solomon, Stephen J [IM]
2463!! 15 NSW Lane, Gary W [IM]
2458! 0 VIC Gluzman, Michael [IM]
2439! 0 SA Tao, Trevor
2424!! 8 NSW Zhao, Zong-Yuan [IM]
2393!! 7 VIC Bjelobrk, Igor
2389!! 23 VIC Froehlich, Peter [IM]
2389!! 23 VIC Smerdon, David C [IM]
2381! 0 SA Chapman, Mark [IM]
2370!! 16 VIC West, Guy [IM]
2366! 0 VIC Teichmann, Erik [FM]
2352!! 7 VIC Depasquale, Chris J [FM]
2331!! 7 VIC Sandler, Leonid [IM]
2319!! 46 NSW Xie, George
2296!! 14 VIC Rujevic, Mirko [IM]
2292!! 7 NSW Reilly, Tim [FM]
2286!! 38 NSW Canfell, Gregory J [FM]
2281! 6 VIC Saw, Geoffrey [FM]
2280! 0 VIC Baron, Michael [FM]
2279!! 9 VIC Levi, Eddy L [FM]
2274!! 0 VIC Rashid, Abdulwahab [FM]
2272! 0 NSW Feldman, Vladimir [IM]
2265!! 19 NSW Seberry, Ralph B
2260!! 9 NSW Tindall, Brett [FM]
2252! 0 NSW Smirnov, Vladimir
2244! 0 NSW Kabir, Ruhul
2243!! 16 SA Zaric, Srboljub
2231!! 21 WA Boyd, Tristan
2228!! 7 QLD Sorokina, Anastasia [WIM]
2225!! 7 VIC Hamilton, Douglas G [FM]
2221!! 14 NSW Tan, Justin
2221!! 5 NSW Scott, Ronald
2219! 7 NSW Flatow, A (Fred) [FM]
2212!! 9 NSW Berezina - Feldman, Irina [IM]
2205!! 15 WA Byrne, Stewart J
2201! 0 NSW Bouchaaya, Tony
2196! 18 WA Painter, Julian
2192!! 7 NSW Rej, Tomek
2190!! 11 NSW Goris, Robert
2169!! 7 VIC Hacche, David J
2166!! 15 NSW Bird, Andrew
2164! 9 NSW Hirschhorn, Jeremy K
2162!! 0 VIC Chow, Samuel
2152! 0 VIC Partsi, Dimitry
2150! 0 VIC Aghamalyan, Armen
2148!! 7 NSW Yu, Ronald
2142! 0 NSW Dwyer, Danny [FM]
2141! 0 VIC Woodhams, Michael V
2135!! 9 WA Barber, Haydn J [FM]
2132! 0 SA Goldsmith, Alan D
2132!! 7 VIC Booth, Stewart
2122! 0 WA Wilkins, Michael
2121! 9 NSW Ayvazyan, Armen
2119!! 54 NSW Charles, Gareth
2114!! 10 NSW Luchtmeijer, Ton
2113!! 0 NSW Agulto, Edgardo
2113! 6 NSW Samar, Raul

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:54 PM
Top Females
2228!! 7 QLD Sorokina, Anastasia [WIM]
2212!! 9 NSW Berezina - Feldman, Irina [IM]
2106!! 8 NSW Eriksson, Ingela
2033!! 16 SA Nguyen, Giang
1991!! 11 NSW Dekic, Biljana [WIM]
1979!! 18 NSW Moylan, Laura A [WIM]
1950! 0 NSW Lip, Catherine [WFM]
1923! 0 NSW Klimenko, Veronica [WFM]
1812!! 22 NSW Lane, Nancy L [WIM]
1797!! 6 VIC Lee, Michelle
1787!! 14 VIC Szuveges, Narelle S [WFM]
1786!! 7 VIC Zivanovic, Andjelija
1746!! 24 NSW Huddleston, Heather
1727! 1 NSW Rogers, Cathy L
1681!! 13 WA Payne, Sophie
1673!! 36 NSW Song, Angela
1657!! 32 ACT Oliver, Shannon
1640! 0 NSW Shields, Sylvia
1634!! 19 NSW Reid, Vaness
1633! 7 QLD Horwood, Melba

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:55 PM
Top Under 20
2424!! 17 NSW Zhao, Zong-Yuan
2389!! 19 VIC Smerdon, David C
2319!! 18 NSW Xie, George
2231!! 19 WA Boyd, Tristan
2221!! 18 NSW Tan, Justin
2192!! 17 NSW Rej, Tomek
2162!! 16 VIC Chow, Samuel
2148!! 15 NSW Yu, Ronald
2094!! 19 QLD Humphrey, Jonathan
2089! 18 NSW Tian, Kuan-Kuan
2079!! 17 VIC Bourmistrov, Denis
2073!! 16 ACT Jovanovic, Peter
2050!! 18 VIC Nemeth, Janos
2033!! 18 SA Nguyen, Giang
1987!! 17 NSW Zvedeniouk, Ilia
1973!! 15 NSW Lubarsky, Kostia
1953!! 14 ACT Wei, Michael
1950! 17 NSW Lip, Catherine
1947!! 14 VIC Stojic, Dusan
1941! 16 NSW O'Chee, Kevin

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:56 PM
Top Under 16
2148!! 15 NSW Yu, Ronald
1973!! 15 NSW Lubarsky, Kostia
1953!! 14 ACT Wei, Michael
1947!! 14 VIC Stojic, Dusan
1911!! 15 ACT Oliver, Gareth
1903!! 9 NSW Song, Raymond
1891!! 13 SA Obst, James
1884!! 15 NSW Suttor, Vincent
1861!! 15 VIC Jager, Jesse
1840!! 14 QLD Barnard, Casey T
1838!! 12 QLD Ly, Moulthun
1827!! 14 NSW Cronan, James
1819!! 12 ACT Ikeda, Junta
1799!! 13 VIC Lugo, Ruperto
1797!! 13 VIC Lee, Michelle
1790! 15 VIC Lindberg, Douglas
1769!! 12 VIC Jia, Jing Qu
1761!! 11 NSW Illingworth, Max
1757!! 15 NSW Morris, Michael
1746!! 14 NSW Huddleston, Heather

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:56 PM
Top Under 12
1903!! 9 NSW Song, Raymond
1761!! 11 NSW Illingworth, Max
1673!! 11 NSW Song, Angela
1644!! 10 VIC Lin, Zhigen Wilson
1548!! 11 NSW Harris, Benjamin
1542!! 11 QLD Anderson, Daniel C
1461!! 9 QLD Finke, Kelvin
1458!! 10 NSW Miranda, Adrian
1451!! 11 WA Choong, Yita
1433!! 9 VIC Morris, James
1426!! 11 QLD Xu, Mingda
1416!! 11 NSW Wu, Edwin
1410!! 10 NSW Xu, William
1325!! 11 ACT Brown, Andrew
1290!! 11 VIC Yu, Derek
1263!! 11 ACT Ung, Thomas
1198! 11 VIC Carey, Jamie
1194! 11 VIC Ziffer, Rocheleh
1178!! 10 VIC Vijayakumar, Rengan
1160!! 11 NSW Soltysik, Adelaide

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:57 PM
Top Females Under 20
2033!! 18 SA Nguyen, Giang
1950! 17 NSW Lip, Catherine
1797!! 13 VIC Lee, Michelle
1786!! 19 VIC Zivanovic, Andjelija
1746!! 14 NSW Huddleston, Heather
1681!! 18 WA Payne, Sophie
1673!! 11 NSW Song, Angela
1657!! 17 ACT Oliver, Shannon
1640! 19 NSW Shields, Sylvia
1634!! 14 NSW Reid, Vaness
1584!! 14 NSW Harris, Rebecca
1418!! 13 QLD Evans, Amy L
1414! 16 VIC Richter, Sally-Anne
1411!! 14 QLD Jule, Alexandra
1355!! 13 VIC Hickman, Casey
1319! 18 WA Cassidy, Kelly
1264! 17 NSW Chu, Winnie
1241!! 14 ACT Ikeda, Miona
1232!! 14 QLD Lyons, Kieran C
1218! 14 ACT Eldridge-Smith, Veronique

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 07:59 PM
Top Seniors
2243!! 64 SA Zaric, Srboljub
2225!! 63 VIC Hamilton, Douglas G
2219! 67 NSW Flatow, A (Fred)
2108!! 66 NSW Ghenzer, Charles
2035!! 77 NSW Viner, Phillip J
2005!! 61 NSW Capilitan, Romeo
1991!! 76 WA Leonhardt, Wolfgang
1981! 70 TAS Pavicic, Mile
1955!! 66 NSW Benson, Lachlan
1953! 66 SA Riches, L John
1921!! 62 NSW Gross, Mike C
1901! 68 NSW Hutchings, Frank P
1898! 72 NSW Creech, Ken E
1855! 82 NSW Webb, Selwyn
1850!! 61 NSW Winter, George
1840!! 63 NSW Pilja, Djuro
1835! 63 NSW Markovic, Milosav
1833!! 65 NSW Tulevski, Vasil G
1828! 71 NSW Lazaridis, Julius
1796! 69 TAS Gibbs, Glen B

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 08:00 PM
Top Improvers
1885 185 NSW Hu, Jason
1190 175 ACT Lin, Ying
1428 169 VIC Bailey, Mitchel
1761 164 NSW Illingworth, Max
1560 161 ACT Maguire, Jesse
1090 157 QLD Kinder, Jessica
1290 150 VIC Yu, Derek
1584 146 NSW Harris, Rebecca
1581 134 NSW Art, Carl
782 127 NSW Brown, Mitchell
1050 127 NSW Maddy, Barry
1634 119 NSW Reid, Vaness
610 117 QLD Webb, Christina
1928 117 ACT Bliznyuk, Andrey
1143 113 ACT Lin, Davy
1502 112 NSW Webster, David
1877 111 QLD Ghodosi, Hossein
1112 109 VIC Young, Darren
1433 107 TAS Hendry, Thomas
1458 106 NSW Miranda, Adrian
1115 106 ACT Reading, Michael
1483 106 SA Atrens, Eduard
1625 103 ACT Tran, Christopher
1529 101 NSW Nichas, John
1533 98 WA Booth, Guy
1548 98 NSW Harris, Benjamin
1001 97 ACT Petersson, John
1366 97 NSW Steinitz, Steven
1484 95 NSW Butler, Allan
1418 94 QLD Evans, Amy L

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2004, 08:01 PM
Busiest Players
1513 62 NSW Greenwood, Norman
1761 61 NSW Illingworth, Max
1782 60 NSW Mendes da Costa, Alex
1610 56 NSW Keuning, Anthony V
2119 54 NSW Charles, Gareth
1798 49 ACT Grcic, Milan
1819 47 ACT Ikeda, Junta
1644 47 VIC Lin, Zhigen Wilson
2319 46 NSW Xie, George
1458 45 NSW Losh, Gary
1649 43 QLD Davidson, Nathan P
1710 40 ACT Neeman, Jeremy
1587 38 ACT Hoang, Khoi
1947 38 VIC Stojic, Dusan
988 38 ACT Smith, Kayleigh
2286 38 NSW Canfell, Gregory J
1903 38 NSW Song, Raymond
2079 38 VIC Bourmistrov, Denis
691 38 VIC Van Dijk, Marieke
1625 36 ACT Tran, Christopher
1133 36 ACT Oliver, Tamzin L
711 36 ACT Flood, Christopher
1510 36 NSW Bisson, Danny Wayne
1673 36 NSW Song, Angela
1799 36 VIC Lugo, Ruperto
1114 35 ACT Yuan, Yi
1401 35 NSW Tracey, Michael J
1640 35 NSW Escribano, Jose
1978 35 NSW Chan, Jason
1355 35 VIC Hickman, Casey
1135 34 ACT Chow, Justin
1906 34 NSW Harp, Joel
1827 34 NSW Cronan, James
1746 34 ACT Ali, Mosaddeque
1325 33 ACT Brown, Andrew
769 33 ACT Henderson, Jake
1657 32 ACT Oliver, Shannon
1970 32 VIC Dizdarevic, Mehmedalija
1838 32 QLD Ly, Moulthun
1781 31 NSW Fell, Lloyd S

Trent Parker
01-06-2004, 09:20 AM
woohoo, I'm finally above sweeney!! :lol:
I'm in prime position to win any u 1300 prizes :lol:
(new rating 1298!!)

I have a question that may not have an answer...

I want to set myself a goal this ratings period. I want to increase my rating by... well i just want to aim to get on the most improved list. so i want to increase by about 100 points. What results should i aim for in upcoming tourneys considering that i have a !! against my rating. Assume a !! for my opponents as well incase it is needed. I plan on playing: common man, fairfield, NSWCA Aug W/Ender and Coal city.

Can anyone answer this question? I know it would be difficult to determine if at all possible

PHAT
01-06-2004, 09:41 AM
woohoo, I'm finally above sweeney!! :lol:


Next time we meet on the bottom board the pressure will all be on YOU! I am gonna smash you like a china plate, squash you like an insect. It's total Jehad and you are so dead.

Garvinator
01-06-2004, 09:48 AM
Next time we meet on the bottom board the pressure will all be on YOU! I am gonna smash you like a china plate, squash you like an insect. It's total Jehad and you are so dead.
does that mean you are going to be a suicide bomber matt :uhoh:

PHAT
01-06-2004, 10:00 AM
does that mean you are going to be a suicide bomber matt :uhoh:

Yes, I will be using my normal king sacrifice.

Garvinator
01-06-2004, 10:15 AM
Yes, I will be using my normal king sacrifice.
saccing your king for heaps of trents pieces hey :lol: :whistle:

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 10:39 AM
woohoo, I'm finally above sweeney!! :lol:
I'm in prime position to win any u 1300 prizes :lol:
(new rating 1298!!)

I have a question that may not have an answer...

I want to set myself a goal this ratings period. I want to increase my rating by... well i just want to aim to get on the most improved list. so i want to increase by about 100 points. What results should i aim for in upcoming tourneys considering that i have a !! against my rating. Assume a !! for my opponents as well incase it is needed. I plan on playing: common man, fairfield, NSWCA Aug W/Ender and Coal city.

Can anyone answer this question? I know it would be difficult to determine if at all possible

These sort of questions always have answers. First assume all your opponents are perfect spheres. (Sorry old maths joke).

Seriously, assume all you opponents are 1400!! and you play 28 games in the rating period. Assume also you either win or draw against all you opponents. That is you have x wins and (28 - x) draws. You can solve for x using trial and error and my Glicko Calculator (http://www.bjcox.com/modules.php?name=Glicko_Calc). I come up with the answer x = 7.

So that more or less is your answer. You need to have a performance of +7 in 28 games against 1400!! opposition. This is roughly a performance of rating of 1490.

Different assumptions will lead you to slightly different answers but I would expect them all to be in this ballpark.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 11:08 AM
You need to have a performance of +7 in 28 games against 1400!! opposition. This is roughly a performance of rating of 1490.


:lol:

So:

100+ games over a few years games says that Trent is ~1300.
He then plays ~30 games at ~1500 strength.
Glicko then rates him at ~1400 instead of ~1500.
This is only a 50% movement of rating toward Trent's proven playing strength.

Very strange! 30 games is a lot of games to judge a players playing ability. I would have thought that a rating algorithm ought to give the last 30 recent games a lot more value than that (half). Surely we would say that Trent was being 100 points under-rated. I would.

Hmmm :confused: I wonder if the ratings of improving juniors are similarly lagging their true playing strength? Nahhh, couldn't happen. :rolleyes:

bobby1972
01-06-2004, 11:41 AM
hi my friend was inactive then played 18 games and only 9 were rated in this list he went up 223 points now what about the other 9 games will he now have this games rated at his new rating and suffer a penalty instead of having them rated at his old rating this happened because the MCC has not had last 3 turneys rated due to computer going down and other unforseen things.thanks

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 11:43 AM
100+ games over a few years games says that Trent is ~1300.
He then plays ~30 games at ~1500 strength.
Glicko then rates him at ~1400 instead of ~1500.
This is only a 50% movement of rating toward Trent's proven playing strength.

Very strange! 30 games is a lot of games to judge a players playing ability. I would have thought that a rating algorithm ought to give the last 30 recent games a lot more value than that (half). Surely we would say that Trent was being 100 points under-rated. I would.

Hmmm :confused: I wonder if the ratings of improving juniors are similarly lagging their true playing strength? Nahhh, couldn't happen. :rolleyes:

Come on Matt, it's not like you to criciticise something you know nothing about. 3 months of 1500 performance does not a 1500 player make. Not when there is a long history of sub-1300 performance. The "!!" make a huge difference to the result. A player with even a "!" would have moved to 1437 and " " to 1467, "?" to 1481 and "??" to 1492. (Try doing that with Elo!)

Note the numbers are not exact as it would depend on Trent's numerical RD not the code that is published on the rating list. Also gross simplifications were assumed to make the calculations tractable.

Also note that my calcs are done using a Glicko-1 engine. Glicko-2 should be similar. However, given we are talking about a stochastic variation, what G2 has to say would be interesting. This has been left as an exercise for the interested reader.

BTW, how's Tri-Rank coming on?

Bill Gletsos
01-06-2004, 11:48 AM
hi my friend was inactive then played 18 games and only 9 were rated in this list he went up 223 points now what about the other 9 games will he now have this games rated at his new rating and suffer a penalty instead of having them rated at his old rating this happened because the MCC has not had last 3 turneys rated due to computer going down and other unforseen things.thanks
His remaining 9 games will be rated in the next period. His june 2004 rating will be used.
As for the MCC's computer problems it just goes to show that they a) should have sent the files to the Vic ratings officer as soon as the tournaments ended and b) had an apprentlyt better backup strategy. :hmm:

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 11:48 AM
hi my friend was inactive then played 18 games and only 9 were rated in this list he went up 223 points now what about the other 9 games will he now have this games rated at his new rating and suffer a penalty instead of having them rated at his old rating this happened because the MCC has not had last 3 turneys rated due to computer going down and other unforseen things.thanks

If this other tourny has missed this rating period (and as they are published I think it has) then they will be rated next period which means his rating as published this period will be used as a starting point.

As to whether his final rating will be higher or lower than if they were rated in the one period depends on a lot of factors, including the rating movement of his opponents.

Howver, generally his RD will move down (along the scale from ?? -> !!) so that will tend to reduce the magnitude of rating movement. So if he perfomed worse than his new rating in the second tournament he is probably better off. He he performed above this rating he is probably worse off.

eclectic
01-06-2004, 11:54 AM
a quick question on ratings

why have unrated players and unrated games?

why can't a new player's starting rating be the average rating of all established rated australian players of the same age or age group including those on the master list but excluding statistical outliers like anyone under 1000 or over 2000?

what percentage of tournament games don't get rated? less than 1 per cent if that but technically it is still rated games lost income.

or given he always excludes unrated games in his calculations would this ruin starter's junk round eliminator differential metric?

apologies for putting it in this thread but it seemed as good a place as any given the june ratings have just been released.

i'm sure that if discussion about this takes on a life of its own then there will be an admin or moderator to graft it off onto a new thread.

eclectic

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 12:01 PM
why have unrated players and unrated games?

Because it is better to do so than to apply an arbitrary rating and thereby introduce an arbitrary error into the rating system.

As most unrated players finish in the bottom half of tournaments I think by assuming an average rating you would introduce an unwanted inflationary effect on the ratings as a whole, especially considering some of these players may play only one tournament, and disappear, never to be seen again.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 12:11 PM
His remaining 9 games will be rated in the next period. His june 2004 rating will be used.
As for the MCC's computer problems it just goes to show that they a) should have sent the files to the Vic ratings officer as soon as the tournaments ended and b) had an apprentlyt better backup strategy. :hmm:

Looks very much like administrative expeadiancy over-riding fairness for player in question.

Bill Gletsos
01-06-2004, 12:20 PM
Because it is better to do so than to apply an arbitrary rating and thereby introduce an arbitrary error into the rating system.

As most unrated players finish in the bottom half of tournaments I think by assuming an average rating you would introduce an unwanted inflationary effect on the ratings as a whole, especially considering some of these players may play only one tournament, and disappear, never to be seen again.
I agree with your comments, However I took it that ecletic believes that games by unrated players dont count.

As you well know this is an incorrect assumption on his part.

The only time a players results dont count is if he is unrated (unr or new) on the rating list at the start of the period and scores 0% or 100% in the rating period.

For example 110 players who played in the june period were unrated at the start of the period. Of these only 1 ended up without a rating. Ifthey played less than 9 games total the rating isnt published.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 12:21 PM
a quick question on ratings

why have unrated players and unrated games?



All games are rated

In the calulations, unrated players are firstly given their performance rating for the period. Then the calulations are performed. If the number of games that the new unrated player plays is <9, their performance rating is still not published, but it does exist on the data base.

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 12:26 PM
Looks very much like administrative expeadiancy over-riding fairness for player in question.

Looks like the player should take it up with the Tournament Director in question.

It is in isolation neither fair nor unfair. The games will just get rated a little later.

ursogr8
01-06-2004, 12:26 PM
a quick question on ratings



or given he always excludes unrated games in his calculations would this ruin starter's junk round eliminator differential metric?

apologies for putting it in this thread but it seemed as good a place as any given the june ratings have just been released.


eclectic
hi eclectic
My response will be over on the competitiveness thread.
starter

PHAT
01-06-2004, 12:36 PM
It is in isolation neither fair nor unfair. The games will just get rated a little later.

Cut it out. You know as well as I do, that the player's rating will be lower than it would otherwise have been You know that is because the RD (!! ! 0 ? ?? ) will act as a drag on his rise.

It is unfair, and everyone knows it. Of course, Bill Gletsos will deny it and blame someone else.

In actual fact, the problem is that he simply does not wish to re-run the last period, to include the missed results, before he runs the next period.

Bill Gletsos
01-06-2004, 12:36 PM
Looks very much like administrative expeadiancy over-riding fairness for player in question.
It isnt a matter of fairness at all.
If anything its a matter of accuracy.
With more games in the period the players rating would be more accurate.
However a players rating at the end of the second rating period would not be significantly different just because some games are rated in two seperate periods. This is especially true if the player has additional games in the second period rather than those just held over from the first.

Of course this isnt that much different to a situation where a tournament finishes tonight. It missed the rating cutoff even though most games were played during the june period. It gets rated in the next period.

I know that the state rating officers chase organisers to get the tournaments into the correct rating period.
Perhaps the players should try to ensure that tournament organisers submit tournaments in a timely manner and if they dont then boycott their future events. :hmm: :rolleyes: :whistle:

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 12:55 PM
Cut it out. You know as well as I do, that the player's rating will be lower than it would otherwise have been You know that is because the RD (!! ! 0 ? ?? ) will act as a drag on his rise.

Now you are assuming his performance in the second tournament was higher than in the first.

Just keep playing tournament chess and everyone will have an accurate rating. One tournament rated one period later is not worth worrying about when you put it beside other factors that could possibly perturb ratings.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 12:58 PM
Just keep playing tournament chess and everyone will have an accurate rating. One tournament rated one period later is not worth worrying about when you put it beside other factors that could possibly perturb ratings.

True. But is still unfair for the duration of the current period.

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 01:33 PM
True. But is still unfair for the duration of the current period.

Unfair how?

PHAT
01-06-2004, 02:42 PM
Unfair how?

If over-rated you play players harder than you would normally and you have greater difficulty winning the prize in your rating division.

If under-rated you play players easier than you would normally and others have greater difficulty winning the prize in your rating division.

Gee, and you actually thought I would find it hard to find the unfairness. I feel insulted. :hand:

bobby1972
01-06-2004, 02:44 PM
thanks bill,barry.

Bill Gletsos
01-06-2004, 02:49 PM
thanks bill,barry.
Your welcome.

Rincewind
01-06-2004, 02:58 PM
If over-rated you play players harder than you would normally and you have greater difficulty winning the prize in your rating division.

If under-rated you play players easier than you would normally and others have greater difficulty winning the prize in your rating division.

You make even more assumptions here (on top of the ones already pointed out):
- Firstly you are assuming the difference put him into a different rating class
- Secondly that he plays in tournament with said rating prizes.
- Thirdly that he performs the the necessary level to qualify for a prize in said tourny.

However, all that aside you are missing the most significant point. This player is neither over- nor under-rated. His rating is what is prescribed by the results returned by the state ratings officer.

By your argument the ACF should run a rating update after every tournament to avoid disavantaging any player. :hand:

Trent Parker
01-06-2004, 03:24 PM
Next time we meet on the bottom board the pressure will all be on YOU! I am gonna smash you like a china plate, squash you like an insect. It's total Jehad and you are so dead.

Bring it on.
Bring it on
Bring it on. :lol: :evil:

oh hang on a sec .... i don't want to be on bottom boards :lol:

Trent Parker
01-06-2004, 03:26 PM
These sort of questions always have answers. First assume all your opponents are perfect spheres. (Sorry old maths joke).

Seriously, assume all you opponents are 1400!! and you play 28 games in the rating period. Assume also you either win or draw against all you opponents. That is you have x wins and (28 - x) draws. You can solve for x using trial and error and my Glicko Calculator (http://www.bjcox.com/modules.php?name=Glicko_Calc). I come up with the answer x = 7.

So that more or less is your answer. You need to have a performance of +7 in 28 games against 1400!! opposition. This is roughly a performance of rating of 1490.

Different assumptions will lead you to slightly different answers but I would expect them all to be in this ballpark.

Thanking you very muchly.

PHAT
01-06-2004, 05:42 PM
You make even more assumptions here (on top of the ones already pointed out):
- Firstly you are assuming the difference put him into a different rating class
- Secondly that he plays in tournament with said rating prizes.
- Thirdly that he performs the the necessary level to qualify for a prize in said tourny.

So? I can asume what ever boundry conditions I like. Of course, those conditions ought to reflect a typical player in typical conditions. That is what I have done - except for assuming that they are a sphere.


However, all that aside you are missing the most significant point. This player is neither over- nor under-rated. His rating is what is prescribed by the results returned by the state ratings officer.

You must be trying to take the piss out of Bill Gletsos, right. That is exactly the kind of illogical guff he tries to win an argument with. Just in case some imbicile takes that argument seriously I will kill it now.

"Over/under-rated" are terms that suggest that a player's published rating does not reflect their actual playing strength during the following rating period. To say otherwise is a circular argument, ie. their rating is their actual rating because that is what they are rated at.


By your argument the ACF should run a rating update after every tournament to avoid disavantaging any player. :hand:

Yes I do.

Kevin Bonham
01-06-2004, 06:31 PM
Very strange! 30 games is a lot of games to judge a players playing ability. I would have thought that a rating algorithm ought to give the last 30 recent games a lot more value than that (half).

100 games is a lot too. You're judging 30 fresh games against 100 games over a few years. A roughly even split seems about right to me.

If you think you can outguess the system then come up with a new set of trending-based predictions (eg of the form "if a player improves by x points in the period, their next movement will be +y") to test.

Rincewind
02-06-2004, 11:26 PM
June rating have now been applied to my Glicko Calculator. That URL again...

http://www.bjcox.com/modules.php?name=Glicko_Calc

;)