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Lucena
26-05-2004, 11:36 AM
I think it's a good idea to have a NSW grade matches thread. What do you reckon?

Rincewind
26-05-2004, 12:29 PM
I think it's a good idea to have a NSW grade matches thread. What do you reckon?

Sounds good. Unfortunately, I won't be playing this year due to study commitments. Anyway, because of rating adjustments only 2 of our u-1800 champions team would be able to defend the title this year anyway. :(

However, I believe Wollongong is fielding a new-look u-1800 team :) Good luck and godspeed to the team!

Candy-Cane
26-05-2004, 05:00 PM
Well we also have an u/1600 team this year :p

Rincewind
26-05-2004, 05:05 PM
Well we also have an u/1600 team this year :p

I was going to mention that but I was sure whether it got oranised. Good luck to to them too, obviously. Maybe Wollongong can take out two titles this year! :D

PHAT
26-05-2004, 08:56 PM
I was going to mention that but I was sure whether it got oranised. Good luck to to them too, obviously. Maybe Wollongong can take out two titles this year! :D

If we do, it will man that The 'Gong needs to have an arbitary 100 points added to all our ratings - after all, it would show that we are under-rated.

Rhubarb
27-05-2004, 12:20 AM
:owned:

Modesty doesn't quite forbid me from posting the results of Wests' Round 1 match-up against reigning Open Grade champions St. George.

Wests - St. George 4-0

(Wests were White on boards 1 & 3)

Canfell - Zhao 1-0
Drummond - Smirnov 0-1
Tan - Zirdum 1-0
Eriksson - Bird 0-1

Rincewind
27-05-2004, 12:40 AM
I think we played Wests in the first round of the U-1800 draw last year too. Wests won 3-1 from memory.

Erkan - Castor 0-1
Suttor - Cox 1/2-1/2
Kanostrevac - Isaac 1/2-1/2
Escribano - Mazzieri 1-0

We also lost to St George in the second round by another 1-3 margin and were pretty close to bottom after two rounds. Needless to say our form did improve.

arosar
27-05-2004, 09:55 AM
:owned:

Modesty doesn't quite forbid me from posting the results of Wests' Round 1 match-up against reigning Open Grade champions St. George.

Wait til the bas.tards bring in a blow-in like Ftacnik.

AR

Rhubarb
27-05-2004, 10:04 AM
AR, remind me of the details?

arosar
27-05-2004, 10:24 AM
Well mate, ya see, one time right - and against a top notch Filipino team of the Mounties (I think it was), the St George Open team brought in Ftacnik. I think it was just after they finished some tourn up in the Gold Coast. I recall this incident very well cos I actually asked Mrs Rogers how to pronounce that funny name, Ftacnick.

Anyways, some people didn't like it at all. They wondered I guess, how come they can just bring in some bloody foreigner like that??

AR

Bill Gletsos
27-05-2004, 11:22 AM
Well mate, ya see, one time right - and against a top notch Filipino team of the Mounties (I think it was), the St George Open team brought in Ftacnik. I think it was just after they finished some tourn up in the Gold Coast. I recall this incident very well cos I actually asked Mrs Rogers how to pronounce that funny name, Ftacnick.

Anyways, some people didn't like it at all. They wondered I guess, how come they can just bring in some bloody foreigner like that??

AR
The grade match rules were changed after that to preclude clubs from doing it.

Lucena
28-05-2004, 11:21 AM
Can we see your game Greg?

Paul S
04-06-2004, 01:02 AM
I am captaining 2 teams in the Grade Matches this year, Canterbury U1600 and St George U1400.

At this stage both these teams will likely have a new player (someone who did not play in rounds 1 and 2) playing for them in Round 3.

Now, the Grade Matches rules specifically state that for rating puposes the MARCH ratings will be used. So, where can I find them, so that I (as captain of these 2 teams) know what board order to put my players? :wall: I need to know what their MARCH ratings are!!!

I'd appreciate it if my jobs as captain (organiser!) of 2 Grade Matches teams was made a little easier.

I would have thought that either the March ratings would have been left on the ACF website when the June ratings came out and/or the March ratings would have been posted on the NSWCA website due to the facts that 1) the Grade Matches require the MARCH ratings to be used and 2) the LARGE number of players playing in the Grade Matches! :doh:

Rincewind
04-06-2004, 01:20 AM
Now, the Grade Matches rules specifically state that for rating puposes the MARCH ratings will be used. So, where can I find them, so that I (as captain of these 2 teams) know what board order to put my players? :wall: I need to know what their MARCH ratings are!!!

You can find a lot of rating lists (including March 2004) on my website.

http://www.bjcox.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=12

Enjoy!

Paul S
04-06-2004, 03:22 PM
You can find a lot of rating lists (including March 2004) on my website.

http://www.bjcox.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=12

Enjoy!

Thankyou, Barry - you are a champion!

Still, I reckon the NSWCA should NOT be relying on individuals like yourself for this. IMHO for the duration of the Grade Matches there should be a list of the March 2004 Ratings on the NSWCA website (or at least a clearly identifiable link to them on the NSWCA website).

Bill Gletsos
04-06-2004, 07:06 PM
Thankyou, Barry - you are a champion!

Still, I reckon the NSWCA should NOT be relying on individuals like yourself for this. IMHO for the duration of the Grade Matches there should be a list of the March 2004 Ratings on the NSWCA website (or at least a clearly identifiable link to them on the NSWCA website).
I'm surprised that a club organiser would not know the March ratings of their players.
Given the NSW grade matches start prior to the June ratings it is obvious the March ratings would be used.
The Grade Match booklet gives the url for the ACF website.
The March ratings have been available on the ACF web site since March 1st.
People had plenty of time to avail themselves of the March ratings.

As is always the practice the ACF site now has the June ratings listed.

However the March active list is still available at http://www.auschess.org.au/ratings/mar04/mar04act.txt
and the master file at http://www.auschess.org.au/ratings/mar04/marmst04.zip

PHAT
05-06-2004, 01:55 PM
I'm surprised that a club organiser would not know the March ratings of their players.


You are surprised, so what. There is no need to turn it into a swipe.

Bill Gletsos
05-06-2004, 04:05 PM
You are surprised, so what. There is no need to turn it into a swipe.
Well Paul should have considered what he was saying before posting (a la the Sweeney method of posting..post with brain in neutral. At least he didnt use your speciality and post with it impaired by achohol).

He took a swipe at the NSWCA.
I simply returned the favour.

PHAT
05-06-2004, 04:28 PM
At least he didnt use your speciality and post with it impaired by achohol

It is called, better living using biochemistry.

Bill Gletsos
05-06-2004, 07:04 PM
It is called, better living using biochemistry.
More a case of drunk and disorderly.

Paul S
06-06-2004, 04:38 PM
I'm surprised that a club organiser would not know the March ratings of their players.
Given the NSW grade matches start prior to the June ratings it is obvious the March ratings would be used.
The Grade Match booklet gives the url for the ACF website.
The March ratings have been available on the ACF web site since March 1st.
People had plenty of time to avail themselves of the March ratings.

As is always the practice the ACF site now has the June ratings listed.

However the March active list is still available at http://www.auschess.org.au/ratings/mar04/mar04act.txt
and the master file at http://www.auschess.org.au/ratings/mar04/marmst04.zip

Bill

Overall there is no question that your knowledege and experience of Australian and NSW chess matters FAR exceeds mine. However, it has been a long time (if at all) that you have been a captain (or played in) the Grade Matches (for whatever reasons your Ryde-Eastwood club does not play in them). If you were a Grade Matches captain/organiser you would know that quite often new (ie "previously unexpected") team members play in the Grade Matches for the first time for a team after 2 or 3 or more rounds.

Sure, I know the (March) ratings (and have a list of) most (ie the "regular") Canterbury players, but not of "fringe Canterbury players" (those who only have a slight connection to the club). Which is why I needed to refer to the March list the other day (for Selim Zaman and Stephen Secheny MARCH ratings), as one of them will be playing on Monday.

While it may appear to you that (because I am the St George Treasurer) I "know everything" about St George, the reality is that I only took on this role because 1) NOBODY else wanted to do it and 2) out of my respect for Charles Zworestine (who I have a high regard for). St George is my "second club" (over the last few years I have played at St George for only about 10-25 weeks a year) and I am only playing for their U1400 Grade Matches team as (at the time of submitting teams) the St George U1400 were short of players. So, I DON'T know the March ratings of most (let alone ALL!) their players (without looking up a rating list). So, when Charles Zworestine rang me a few days ago asking me to put a new player in the U1400 team (Thierry Ollivain) I needed to look up his MARCH rating.

Yes, I had noticed that the URL for the ACF website was listed in the Grade Matches booklet. Sure, this link is useful, but only until 1st June (when the ACF website gets updated). What are team captains supposed to do if they are short of players for a particular round and need to call in someone unexpected?


Well Paul should have considered what he was saying before posting (a la the Sweeney method of posting..post with brain in neutral. At least he didnt use your speciality and post with it impaired by achohol).

He took a swipe at the NSWCA.
I simply returned the favour.

Sure, I took a swipe at the NSWCA. But it was a swipe borne out of frustration (not malice) at being unable to find the March Ratings when I needed to.

WHY can't the NSWCA have this information (the MARCH Ratings) on their website (or a link to the March Ratings)? Is this asking/expecting too much? As a Grade Matches Organiser/Captain for many years I sometimes had to call-in new and "unexpected" (ie players who at the time of submitting player team lists to the NSWCA are not on it) players. Is it unreasonable to expect that if (say, due to player/s dropping out) I have to bring in someone who is a "ring-in" (ie player/s who at the time of submitting player team lists to the NSWCA are not on it) in order to avoid a forfeit the March Ratings should be readily accessible for the team captain?

Bill, is there something WRONG with the NSWCA at the very least having a link to the March Ratings on its website for the duration of the Grade Matches? Is there something WRONG with making such information EASILY ACCESSIBLE to Grade Match captains for the next few weeks should they need to refer to it?

Look, I'm not after scapegoats, and I realise that the NSWCA Council do put in a LOT of voluntary time for the good of chess. All I am saying is that I would like the NSWCA to at the very least having a link to the March Ratings on its website for the duration of the Grade Matches. Is this expecting too much? Surely the amount of work involved for Mal Murrell in doing this is minimal and would be of benefit to Grade Match players/captains/organisers?

Bill Gletsos
06-06-2004, 06:08 PM
Bill

Overall there is no question that your knowledege and experience of Australian and NSW chess matters FAR exceeds mine. However, it has been a long time (if at all) that you have been a captain (or played in) the Grade Matches (for whatever reasons your Ryde-Eastwood club does not play in them). If you were a Grade Matches captain/organiser you would know that quite often new (ie "previously unexpected") team members play in the Grade Matches for the first time for a team after 2 or 3 or more rounds.
I am well aware of the requirements of a team captain.
Also 4 of the NSWCA Council members are also team captains. They dont appear to have a problem. Perhaps they are just better organised.

Anyway the point I was making is that the March files were on the ACF site for 3 months. As such I would have thought club organisers would/could/should have downloaded the whole list at some point during that time.


Sure, I know the (March) ratings (and have a list of) most (ie the "regular") Canterbury players, but not of "fringe Canterbury players" (those who only have a slight connection to the club). Which is why I needed to refer to the March list the other day (for Selim Zaman and Stephen Secheny MARCH ratings), as one of them will be playing on Monday.

While it may appear to you that (because I am the St George Treasurer) I "know everything" about St George, the reality is that I only took on this role because 1) NOBODY else wanted to do it and 2) out of my respect for Charles Zworestine (who I have a high regard for). St George is my "second club" (over the last few years I have played at St George for only about 10-25 weeks a year) and I am only playing for their U1400 Grade Matches team as (at the time of submitting teams) the St George U1400 were short of players. So, I DON'T know the March ratings of most (let alone ALL!) their players (without looking up a rating list). So, when Charles Zworestine rang me a few days ago asking me to put a new player in the U1400 team (Thierry Ollivain) I needed to look up his MARCH rating.
Charles has a full master list. It would have simply made sense to ask him the rating of the new players, especially of those he suggested.


Yes, I had noticed that the URL for the ACF website was listed in the Grade Matches booklet. Sure, this link is useful, but only until 1st June (when the ACF website gets updated). What are team captains supposed to do if they are short of players for a particular round and need to call in someone unexpected?
They can always email the NSWCA ratings officer. In fact in the Rating section of the Grade Match booklet it states "If you have any query about a player's rating contact the NSWCA ratings Officer". His email address is listed in that section of the booklet as well as on page 1.



Sure, I took a swipe at the NSWCA. But it was a swipe borne out of frustration (not malice) at being unable to find the March Ratings when I needed to.
I'm simply suggesting that you are overreacting and the fact you dont have the March ratings was poor planning on your part.


WHY can't the NSWCA have this information (the MARCH Ratings) on their website (or a link to the March Ratings)? Is this asking/expecting too much? As a Grade Matches Organiser/Captain for many years I sometimes had to call-in new and "unexpected" (ie players who at the time of submitting player team lists to the NSWCA are not on it) players. Is it unreasonable to expect that if (say, due to player/s dropping out) I have to bring in someone who is a "ring-in" (ie player/s who at the time of submitting player team lists to the NSWCA are not on it) in order to avoid a forfeit the March Ratings should be readily accessible for the team captain?
As the booklet says you can contact the NSWCA ratings officers.


Bill, is there something WRONG with the NSWCA at the very least having a link to the March Ratings on its website for the duration of the Grade Matches? Is there something WRONG with making such information EASILY ACCESSIBLE to Grade Match captains for the next few weeks should they need to refer to it?

Look, I'm not after scapegoats, and I realise that the NSWCA Council do put in a LOT of voluntary time for the good of chess. All I am saying is that I would like the NSWCA to at the very least having a link to the March Ratings on its website for the duration of the Grade Matches. Is this expecting too much? Surely the amount of work involved for Mal Murrell in doing this is minimal and would be of benefit to Grade Match players/captains/organisers?
The thing is the same situation occurred last year and no one complained that the March ratings were removed from the ACF site.

The reason why the NSWCA does not link to the March ratings on the ACF web site is because there is no guarantee they will be there after Jun 1st.
It just so happens they are still there, however I dont expect them to remain. I managed to work out where they might be by a bit of deductive reasoning.

PHAT
06-06-2004, 11:28 PM
Paul,

Forget Bill as a reasonable man. As you have just read his response, you now know that he knows that he is blameless, faultless, and above all, it is always your problem for not fitting perfectly into his system.

(And I have recently found out the hard way, that he will keep a secret just to shaft someone. He realy is a piece of work.)

Paul S
07-06-2004, 12:18 AM
4 of the NSWCA Council members are also team captains. They dont appear to have a problem. Perhaps they are just better organised.


Perhaps they haven't yet had the need to find out a "new" player's March rating in early June like I have?


Anyway the point I was making is that the March files were on the ACF site for 3 months. As such I would have thought club organisers would/could/should have downloaded the whole list at some point during that time.


I had assumed (incorrectly!) that the March ratings would be easily accesible (via NSWCA or ACF website) for the duration of the Grade Matches. As such I saw no need to download them.



They can always email the NSWCA ratings officer. In fact in the Rating section of the Grade Match booklet it states "If you have any query about a player's rating contact the NSWCA ratings Officer". His email address is listed in that section of the booklet as well as on page 1.


As you know, my email address is at work. I was on an RDO last Friday (4/6/04) and (like most people) I dont work Saturday and Sunday. Because I needed to look at the MARCH ratings BEFORE Canterbury's Monday evening match (and St George's Tuesday evening match) rather than wait until Monday (it may well be that if I were to send the NSW Ratings Officer an email on Monday morning that he may well be busy all day tomorrow at work and unable to look at his emails until Monday evening when it would be too late). So, this is why I did not email the NSWCA Ratings Officer as you suggested.


I'm simply suggesting that you are overreacting and the fact you dont have the March ratings was poor planning on your part.


Yes, I did overreact a little! :p

The reason I didn't download the March Ratings has been explained earlier.


The thing is the same situation occurred last year and no one complained that the March ratings were removed from the ACF site.

Last year the March AND June ratings were on the ACF website simultaneously. Perhaps this is why nobody complained last year? :doh:


The reason why the NSWCA does not link to the March ratings on the ACF web site is because there is no guarantee they will be there after Jun 1st.
It just so happens they are still there, however I dont expect them to remain. I managed to work out where they might be by a bit of deductive reasoning.
Fair enough. But why not have a link on the NSWCA website to the March ratings for the duration of the Grade Matches? Why not put on the NSWCA website a link to, say Barry Cox's website? :hmm:

Paul S
07-06-2004, 12:31 AM
Paul,

Forget Bill as a reasonable man. As you have just read his response, you now know that he knows that he is blameless, faultless, and above all, it is always your problem for not fitting perfectly into his system.


Ha ha ha :) :p ;)

Yes, Bill is (like myself!!!!) a bit difficult to deal with at times.

Nonetheless, overall Bill makes a significant contribution towards Australian chess (considerably more than mine, I'll readily admit!) and gives up a lot of his spare time to attend to chess admin matters (particularly wrt the ratings). Heck, in light of Bill's large amount of volunteer chess admin work, I reckon if Bill only agreed with all my views on chess (instead of just some of them) he may well be blameless, faultless and perfect. ;)

Bill Gletsos
07-06-2004, 09:47 AM
(And I have recently found out the hard way, that he will keep a secret just to shaft someone. He realy is a piece of work.)
I have no idea what you are talking about so come on, dont be gutless and name names.

Trent Parker
07-06-2004, 12:10 PM
It is called, better living using biochemistry.

ROTFL.

Trent Parker
07-06-2004, 12:15 PM
Paul,

Forget Bill as a reasonable man. As you have just read his response, you now know that he knows that he is blameless, faultless, and above all, it is always your problem for not fitting perfectly into his system.

(And I have recently found out the hard way, that he will keep a secret just to shaft someone. He realy is a piece of work.)

ooh. Nasty post. :uhoh: :silenced:

Bill Gletsos
07-06-2004, 12:22 PM
Perhaps they haven't yet had the need to find out a "new" player's March rating in early June like I have?



I had assumed (incorrectly!) that the March ratings would be easily accesible (via NSWCA or ACF website) for the duration of the Grade Matches. As such I saw no need to download them.



As you know, my email address is at work. I was on an RDO last Friday (4/6/04) and (like most people) I dont work Saturday and Sunday. Because I needed to look at the MARCH ratings BEFORE Canterbury's Monday evening match (and St George's Tuesday evening match) rather than wait until Monday (it may well be that if I were to send the NSW Ratings Officer an email on Monday morning that he may well be busy all day tomorrow at work and unable to look at his emails until Monday evening when it would be too late). So, this is why I did not email the NSWCA Ratings Officer as you suggested.



Yes, I did overreact a little! :p

The reason I didn't download the March Ratings has been explained earlier.


Last year the March AND June ratings were on the ACF website simultaneously. Perhaps this is why nobody complained last year? :doh:


Fair enough. But why not have a link on the NSWCA website to the March ratings for the duration of the Grade Matches? Why not put on the NSWCA website a link to, say Barry Cox's website? :hmm:
I still think a little better planning on your part was called for. ;)
I'll email paulb tonight to see if he will leave the March master file available on the ACF site and ask Mal to link to it from the NSWCA site.

Bill Gletsos
07-06-2004, 12:31 PM
Ha ha ha :) :p ;)

Yes, Bill is (like myself!!!!) a bit difficult to deal with at times.
Yes but the majority of the time we are both reasonable. ;)


Nonetheless, overall Bill makes a significant contribution towards Australian chess (considerably more than mine, I'll readily admit!) and gives up a lot of his spare time to attend to chess admin matters (particularly wrt the ratings).
Certainly your contribution whilst a NSWCA councillor far exceeded that of any contribution Matt has so far made. For one thing you attended council meetings and interacted via email debates.


Heck, in light of Bill's large amount of volunteer chess admin work, I reckon if Bill only agreed with all my views on chess (instead of just some of them) he may well be blameless, faultless and perfect. ;)
Ha ha.

PHAT
07-06-2004, 04:19 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about so come on, dont be gutless and name names.

You have known for some time that a Sydney Chess Centre (SCC) was going to "happen" in the near future regardless of what the NSWCA does. For you to keep quiet on such a thing and let Council members waist their time investigating the possibility of a NSWCA operated SCC is an act I will leave you to explain.

Bill Gletsos
07-06-2004, 04:27 PM
You have known for some time that a Sydney Chess Centre (SCC) was going to "happen" in the near future regardless of what the NSWCA does. For you to keep quiet on such a thing and let Council members waist their time investigating the possibility of a NSWCA operated SCC is an act I will leave you to explain.
I am aware as is the NSWCA Council that Peter Parr's lease is up for renewal towards the end of the year. This was mentioned at the January meeting on Jan 29th. It was also mentioned that in the past there plans to open a SCC in cooperation with Peter, the NSWCA and the NSWJCL. Peter Cassettari then distributed on Feb 1st some of the previous correspondence regarding this matter to all Council members.

Peter has given me no indication that he plans to open a "Sydney Chess Centre" this time around.

If you are referring to something else I have no idea what you are talking about.

PHAT
07-06-2004, 04:34 PM
However he has given me no indication that he plans to open a "Sydney Chess Centre".


:hand:

Bill Gletsos
07-06-2004, 04:54 PM
:hand:
If you are implying he has then you are sadly misinformed.

Trent Parker
09-06-2004, 09:37 AM
Hey Just a Hypothetical question...

On monday night when i was at my chess club the Campbelltown U2000 team played... I think it was Wests. Wests were a player short. I was going to offer to play board 4 for them but I had also told the captain of that Campbelltown team that if they need me to play anytime if need be (have a laugh). Therefore I didn't offer.

If i would have played board 4 for wests would i still be able to play for Campbelltown in another round?

Bill Gletsos
09-06-2004, 10:52 AM
Hey Just a Hypothetical question...

On monday night when i was at my chess club the Campbelltown U2000 team played... I think it was Wests. Wests were a player short. I was going to offer to play board 4 for them but I had also told the captain of that Campbelltown team that if they need me to play anytime if need be (have a laugh). Therefore I didn't offer.

If i would have played board 4 for wests would i still be able to play for Campbelltown in another round?
According to the grade match rule 1.4
No player may play for more than one team in the same division.
Therefore you cannot play for Wests U2000 and in the Campbelltown U2000 team. You could however play for the Wests U2000 and say the Campbelltown U1800 team.

Rincewind
09-06-2004, 10:58 AM
From the rules:

No player may play for more than one team in the same division.

So if you played for Wests u2000 you would not be able to play for Cambelltown u2000 but would be able to play for Cambelltown in some other division.

<snap>

Trent Parker
09-06-2004, 11:49 AM
ok i did the right thing then....