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Intuition
06-06-2007, 03:12 PM
Hey All,

Do you really need to start chess as a kid to end up being one of the top players? In the age of 12yo GMs you would think so but I dont think this is necessarily true. I think the main reason for this line of thought is that kids have lots of extra TIME compared to adults who generally have alot more things competing for thier time.

Is there any stories of late commer GM/IM/FM's?

With the right set of factors I think its possible.

Cheers :D

Phil Bourke
06-06-2007, 03:28 PM
Is there any stories of late commer GM/IM/FM's?

With the right set of factors I think its possible.

Cheers :D
So does Susan Polgar. I read on her blog off a fellow that played chess when younger and then gave it away because of the commitments that you mentioned. He has now resumed at age 50+ (I think) and is determined to reach IM, Susan Polgar is helping with his training program, so while not exactly fitting your criteria, perhaps he will be a good example to follow.

Garvinator
06-06-2007, 03:40 PM
From adult beginner to fide grandmaster, of course it is possible ;)

Vlad
06-06-2007, 04:39 PM
GM Sergey Shipov is a good example. He was just a candidate master when he was 20. In his peak when he was about 30 his rating was 2662.

MichaelBaron
08-06-2007, 04:51 PM
GM Sergey Shipov is a good example. He was just a candidate master when he was 20. In his peak when he was about 30 his rating was 2662.

emm russian KMS is not a complete beginner i guess...Strong KMS in sovet times were playing at equvivalent of 2300-2400 fide.

In Moscow alone, there were a lot of young KMS who became the GMs in 2-3 years after the fall of iron curtain and opportunity to travel the world (Chuchelov, Shekachev, Notkin, Berdichevsky, Amonatov to name a few...)

Igor_Goldenberg
08-06-2007, 05:11 PM
emm russian KMS is not a complete beginner i guess...Strong KMS in sovet times were playing at equvivalent of 2300-2400 fide.

In Moscow alone, there were a lot of young KMS who became the GMs in 2-3 years after the fall of iron curtain and opportunity to travel the world (Chuchelov, Shekachev, Notkin, Berdichevsky, Amonatov to name a few...)

Indeed, Shipov, Chuchelov, Notkin and Berdichevsky were at least 2300+ in modern terms (if not stronger) before 20, so are hardly an example of a beginner adult.

I don't know any beginner adult becoming a "FIDE grandmaster", even though "FIDE master" is quite possible:D

pax
08-06-2007, 05:41 PM
I believe FM Haydn Barber (umpteen time WA Champion) didn't learn the moves until age 16. I think reaching 2300 from adult beginner is possible but very difficult. I think GM is almost impossible.

peter_knight
08-06-2007, 05:47 PM
Some of the old masters started playing chess at a late age.
Amos Burn started at 16 if I remember correctly

Denis_Jessop
08-06-2007, 08:42 PM
Cecil Purdy didn't start playing chess until he was about 16 and was later World Correspondence Champion, an IM and Australian Champion (not in that order). But I'm not sure that now that would be possible.

DJ

Dozy
09-06-2007, 08:58 AM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the oldest person to be awarded an IM title was in his 70s, though I don't recall his name, or know how old he was when he commenced playing - - - so that's not much help to the discussion.

However, when I was trying to track him down I found a couple of sites about the age of GMs/IMs that might be interesting.

When Arthur Dake died in 2000 at age 90 he was the world's oldest GM: http://www.chesslab.com/0799/grandmaster.html.

Then there's "The Age of Chess Players" by Bill Wall: http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lab/7378/age.htm

Finally, and definitely nothing to do with the age of chess players but interesting anyway, is this collection of chess records covering multiple aspects of play: http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Etimkr/records/records.htm#Longest%20game

ElevatorEscapee
09-06-2007, 12:27 PM
Hi Intuition, where abouts in Country Vic are you?

I vaguely recall a book that might be of interest to you, it was written by an author who became a (US) chess master at age 50.

"Chess Master ... at any age", by Rolf Wetzell, 1994. Thinkers Press.

Link to Amazon.com reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Master-at-Any-Rolf-Wetzell/dp/0938650580)

bobby1972
13-06-2007, 03:45 PM
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth

ER
13-06-2007, 05:57 PM
gracefully surrendering the things of youth

before they ungracefully surrender us!!!
Desiderata - extension ;)
Cheers and good luck!

Igor_Goldenberg
14-06-2007, 09:24 AM
Some of the old masters started playing chess at a late age.
Amos Burn started at 16 if I remember correctly
Starting at 16 and being an adult beginner is not necessarali the same.

BTW, Botvinnik learnt how to play at age 12.

Rincewind
14-06-2007, 09:38 AM
BTW, Botvinnik learnt how to play at age 12.

Yes and he famously beat Capablanca 2 years later in a simul. Not bad for a beginner. :)

mauro
02-08-2007, 04:57 AM
Joseph Blackburne, the leading English player of the late 19th century, didn't learn the chess moves until he was 19. He learned the game from a two-pence chess book. Two years later he was giving blindfold simultaneous exhibitions.

Howard Staunton, the world's leading player in the 1840s, took up chess at age 19 and didn't become a serious player until age 26.

Mir Sultan Khan didn't learn the international game of chess (he knew Indian chess) until age 21. Two years later he was the All-India champion. A year later he won the British championship. He was illiterate, unable to read or write, and never studied any book on the game.

MichaelBaron
09-08-2007, 05:55 PM
Joseph Blackburne, the leading English player of the late 19th century, didn't learn the chess moves until he was 19. He learned the game from a two-pence chess book. Two years later he was giving blindfold simultaneous exhibitions.

Howard Staunton, the world's leading player in the 1840s, took up chess at age 19 and didn't become a serious player until age 26.

Mir Sultan Khan didn't learn the international game of chess (he knew Indian chess) until age 21. Two years later he was the All-India champion. A year later he won the British championship. He was illiterate, unable to read or write, and never studied any book on the game.

Nower days, it is unimaginable (unfortunately) :)

UELleida
20-09-2007, 09:49 PM
It would be interesting to know if there were any players that obtained the GM title at age 40+, and I don't mean these old players that get awarded the title as a gift. I mean fulfilling the current FIDE requirements.

eclectic
20-09-2007, 09:52 PM
the oldest to become a gm was someone aged 60 odd winning the title at a world seniors championship iirc

UELleida
20-09-2007, 11:23 PM
the oldest to become a gm was someone aged 60 odd winning the title at a world seniors championship iirc

That's the sort of method I'm not talking about. I mean the 3 Norm and getting FIDE rating to 2500+ method.

eclectic
20-09-2007, 11:57 PM
That's the sort of method I'm not talking about. I mean the 3 Norm and getting FIDE rating to 2500+ method.

ok i've sent the enquiry off to a certain someone
i may get an answer then again i may not

Capablanca-Fan
23-09-2007, 09:34 AM
It would be interesting to know if there were any players that obtained the GM title at age 40+, and I don't mean these old players that get awarded the title as a gift. I mean fulfilling the current FIDE requirements.
The Romanian Victor Ciocâltea (1932–1983) was awarded the GM title at age 46. He once beat Bobby Fischer (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044548).