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View Full Version : What's the idea or plan in this position?



Basil
31-05-2007, 11:46 PM
For under 1600's only please.

You have the white pieces and the move.
All sorts of ideas for both sides and on both sides of the board.
Holes for jumping knights abound.
Bishops going nowhere, apparently.
Wholesale rook exchanges are on.
Two inactive Queens.

What would you suggest for white? Make the answer as broad or as short as you like.

IMPORTANT
Please post your answers / suggestions in white text, so the thread isn't killed for posters after you. Thanks.
Mods: if someone neglects this, I'd be grateful if you'd clean up their boo-boo.

1r3rk1/3b2pn/p3p2p/q2p4/2pP4/P1N1P1P1/1P1Q1RBP/5RK1 w - - 3 22

Basil
31-05-2007, 11:52 PM
Actually, if posts are made in white, then everybody can join in.

Rincewind
01-06-2007, 12:02 AM
Doesn't Nxd5 win a pawn?

1.Nxd5 Qxd2 2.Nd7+ Kh8 3.Ng6+ Kg8 4.Rxd2

Then you are up a pawn and the knight is ready to jump into the handy e5 square.

Looks ok to me.

Aaron Guthrie
01-06-2007, 12:19 AM
Banana!

Basil
01-06-2007, 01:01 AM
Yes, Barry. That's what was played in the game.
Aaron, I hadn't considered that at all!

Rincewind
01-06-2007, 01:06 AM
Yes, Barry. That's what was played in the game.
Aaron, I hadn't considered that at all!

A very similar theme occurs in some lines in the Sicilian. Except often the pawn you are winning is the e7 one and the move Nd5 in effect can force Qd8.

In this position Qd8 is also playable and possibly that is better for Black. Perhaps the play might go

1.Nxd5 Qd8 2.Nf4 Qe8 3.Qc2

after which White is still looking comfortable but at least Black has more material with which to try and generate some counterplay.

Aaron Guthrie
01-06-2007, 01:12 AM
In case anyone was interested, the Dragon is where this most often occurs. But the the real skill is in getting them to fall for it after you play Kb1!

Rincewind
01-06-2007, 01:18 AM
Would the dragon would be the one major Sicilian line where the e7 pawn would not have moved and therefore be around to be taken?

Aaron Guthrie
01-06-2007, 01:24 AM
The theme occurs in other lines, except in those cases it is usually the e7 Bishop which is of concern.

ETA-Oh, you are saying that it is rather obvious if the e7 pawn is attacked which line it occurs in, rather than that the theme only occurs in the Dragon. Yep, probably it was too obvious to mention.

Rincewind
01-06-2007, 02:03 AM
Nah not really. The NxB variation on the theme is an interesting wrinkle but not one that I've seen an awful lot. Mind you I have also given away playing 1.e4 so it is not one I'm likely to come across over the board.

Basil
01-06-2007, 02:19 AM
Mind you I have also given away playing 1.e4 so it is not one I'm likely to come across over the board.
1.d4? (not as in questionable move, as in instead of 1.e4)

Aaron Guthrie
01-06-2007, 02:24 AM
Yeah it probably takes some bad play for it to occur in other lines. While in the Dragon it is common to have the threat for a move and still be in mainline. Offhand I am guessing the Richter is the main one where the threat might happen while still in book. I thought remembered a game with the theme from when I was a junior, but while I played Nd5 and Nxe7 the reason the knight was immune from capture was different.

Aaron Guthrie
01-06-2007, 02:25 AM
I wonder if it ever comes up in 1.d4 openings.

Bereaved
01-06-2007, 02:28 AM
Hello Howard et al,

this tactical theme occurs in other openings, though not as often in the main lines. In a game I played last night, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 c6 5.g3 d5 6.Bg2 Bf5 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.0-0 0-0 9.Qb3 if 9...Qb6?? to defend b7, then 10.Nxd5 has the tactical point that if 10...Qxb3???? then 11. Nxe7+ retains an extra piece for white (alright at least an extra pawn or two if the knight is trapped on e7!!), and otherwise 10...cxd5 11.Qxd5 seems to leave white a quite comfortable pawn up.I don't know whether this counts, and really don't care as it is late and I am tipsy,

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

Rincewind
01-06-2007, 02:30 AM
1.d4? (not as in questionable move, as in instead of 1.e4)

1.Nf3 mostly, which (incidentally) Short lists as a bad or questionable opening move in one of his books. Not that I've read the book, but my eldest son has and he likes to say "Dad, why do you play an opening that Nigel Short says is bad?" :)

Bereaved
01-06-2007, 02:31 AM
1.Nf3 mostly, which (incidentally) Short lists as a bad or questionable opening move in one of his books. Not that I've read the book, but my son has and he likes to say "Dad, why do you play an opening that Nigel Short says is bad?" :)

Because he only answered in Short, and probably was speaking to those who may not know what a prawn can do when it moves and how it evades capture by a horse or a castle....

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

Rincewind
01-06-2007, 02:34 AM
Because he only answered in Short

Thanks mac. I might use that one next time I'm put to the question.

Basil
01-06-2007, 02:42 AM
Hello Howard et al,

this tactical theme occurs in other openings, though not as often in the main lines. In a game I played last night, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 c6 5.g3 d5 6.Bg2 Bf5 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.0-0 0-0 9.Qb3 if 9...Qb6?? to defend b7, then 10.Nxd5 has the tactical point that if 10...Qxb3???? then 11. Nxe7+ retains an extra piece for white (alright at least an extra pawn or two if the knight is trapped on e7!!), and otherwise 10...cxd5 11.Qxd5 seems to leave white a quite comfortable pawn up. I don't know whether this counts, and really don't care as it is late and I am tipsy,

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

Hi mac

Thanks for the input. I hoped you have had a good night - sounds like it :D If it's not too much trouble, would you mind putting the important part of your post in white.

Baz and Aaron, I reckon you can go back to black now!

Aaron Guthrie
06-06-2007, 11:25 PM
GM Kamsky,Gata(USA) (2705) - GM Gelfand,Boris(ISR) (2733)
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.a4 Nc6 7.Be2 e5 8.Nb3 Be7 9.0-0 0-0 10.Be3 Be6 11.Bf3 Na5 12.Nxa5 Qxa5 13.Qd2 Rfc8Of note since the Nd5 threat was on for a move.

Basil
22-07-2007, 10:43 PM
What's White's Plan?

White to move :P

Despite the smilie, this is a serious question. I have no answers. I will not be pointy. I am here to learn!

r1bq1rk1/p1p1bppp/1p1p1nn1/3Pp3/1PP1P3/P1NBBN2/3Q1PPP/R4RK1 w - - 1 13

Aaron Guthrie
22-07-2007, 10:54 PM
What's White's Plan?Pry open the queenside ala bayonett attack seems very promising (and this position seems familiar ;)).

Basil
22-07-2007, 10:58 PM
...and this position seems familiar ;)
I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about!

Capablanca-Fan
22-07-2007, 11:36 PM
Probably play h3 first to stop ...Ng4. But if you knew that he was gonna play ...Bg4, then omit h3 because exchanging this piece or cutting it off from the Q-side helps White. ;)

It was more logical for White to develop the Q to c2, where it hinders Black's natural break with c4.

MichaelBaron
23-07-2007, 01:02 AM
the plan is to prepare c5. I would not play h3 here as after black gets f5 in, white's kingside may fall apart.
Probably Qc2 is best. overall, the position is quite unclear to me.