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Capablanca-Fan
09-05-2007, 09:02 AM
GM Yermolinsky is an expert in this line for white, and his book The Road to Chess Improvement explains a number of possible plans. White is by no means restricted to the minority attack, and has a number of other ideas. So he thinks that the Black side is difficult to handle for many players.

Here are some classic games illustrating various ideas:

Alex Yermolinsky vs Larry Christiansen USA-ch Gr-A 1999 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1398693) (GM John Nunn used this game from Yermo himself against a strong opponent as the prime example of a queenside attack in Understanding Chess Move by Move. Yermo kept Black busy dealing with opening the centre, tied him down on the Q-side, then finished with a combo on the K-side.

Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian vs Hector Rossetto Izt 1958 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1106407) (Black is so busy defending his weak Pc6 resulting from the minority attack that he overlooks death on the other wing.

Vasily Smyslov vs Paul Keres World Championship Match Tournament 1948 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1072243)(shows that a minority attack can't be beaten simply by a race with a simplistic K-side attack).

Alexander Kotov vs Ludek Pachman Venice 1950 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1316506) (the endgame advantage resulting from a successful minority attack makes Black grovel for a draw at best).

Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian vs Paul Vaitonis Interzonal 1952 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1106214) (Black reacts too agressively in the centre, allowing White to switch over to the K-side)

Mikhail Botvinnik vs Paul Keres Russia 1952 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032264) (White finds a way to set up f3 and e4 against imprecise Black play)

Garry Kasparov vs Nigel Short Kasparov-Short World Championship Match 1993 #15 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070687) (illustrates f3/e4 breakthrough. Often f3 can be answered with c5, so Kasparov first played b4! to clamp down on that.)

Capablanca-Fan
09-05-2007, 09:04 AM
Putting it into practice:
Minority attack: exchange of Qs favours Q-side attacker because it takes sting out of K-side counterplay.

Sarfati,J - Bennet,P [D35]
Logan Club Champs, 2007
[J. Sarfati]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 h6 7.Bh4 0-0 8.Qc2 c6 9.Bd3 Re8 10.Nf3 Ne4 11.Bxe7 Qxe7 12.0-0 Nd7 13.Rab1 Ndf6 14.b4 a6 15.Na4 Ng4 16.Bxe4 Qxe4?! 17.Qxe4 dxe4 18.Nd2 f5 19.Nc5 Nf6 20.Nc4 Rb8 21.Nb6 g5 22.Rfe1 Kf7 23.a4 Ke7 24.b5 axb5 25.axb5 Bd7 26.Rec1 cxb5 27.Ncxd7 Nxd7 28.Rc7 Red8 29.Rxb5 Ke6 30.Nxd7 Rxd7 31.Rcc5 f4 32.Re5+ Kf6 33.Rb6+ Kg7 34.Rxe4 Rc7 35.h3 Rc1+ 36.Kh2 Re1 37.Re7+ Kf8 38.Rh7 Kg8 39.Rhxh6 fxe3 40.fxe3

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 h6 7.Bh4 0-0 8.Qc2 c6 9.Bd3 Re8 10.Nf3 Ne4 11.Bxe7 Qxe7 12.0-0 Nd7 13.Rab1 Ndf6 14.b4 a6 15.Na4 Ng4 16.Bxe4 [Otherwise ...Nexf2] 16...Qxe4?! [Queens should be maintained. Without them, Black's K-side attacking chances are much less, while White's minority attack works just as well.] 17.Qxe4 dxe4 18.Nd2 f5 19.Nc5 Nf6 20.Nc4 Rb8 21.Nb6 g5 22.Rfe1 Kf7 23.a4 Ke7 24.b5 axb5 25.axb5 Bd7 26.Rec1 cxb5 27.Ncxd7 Nxd7 28.Rc7 Red8 29.Rxb5 [As is often true, the breakthrough on the Q-side threatens other parts of the board.] 29...Ke6 30.Nxd7 Rxd7 31.Rcc5 f4 32.Re5+ Kf6 33.Rb6+ Kg7 34.Rxe4 Rc7 35.h3 Rc1+ 36.Kh2 Re1 37.Re7+ Kf8 38.Rh7 Kg8 39.Rhxh6 fxe3 40.fxe3 1-0

Desmond
10-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Jono, in the QGD Exchange mainline, white plays 11.h3 presumably to prevent 11...Bg4. But doesn't 11...Bg4 just lose time after 12.Ne5.?

Capablanca-Fan
11-05-2007, 08:41 AM
Jono, in the QGD Exchange mainline, white plays 11.h3 presumably to prevent 11...Bg4. But doesn't 11...Bg4 just lose time after 12.Ne5.?
Boris, Bg4 on move 11 would lose time, but a few moves later it won't. E.g. there were older lines like 11. Bxf6 Bxf6 12. b4 Bg4; 11. Rab1 a5 12. a3 Bd6 13. Rfe1 Bg4.

11. h3 also prevents another move that can sometimes equalize, ... Ng4, which would be the answer to Ne5 on move 11 and some subsequent moves.

Another feature is that against the typical Black move of 11... Ne4, White can play 12. Bf4 because of the retreat square.

Capablanca-Fan
11-05-2007, 08:48 AM
This time, White breaks the centre wide open

Sarfati,J - Sleight,A [D36]
March Madness, QLD (2), 17.03.2007
[J. Sarfati]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 c6 7.Qc2 Nbd7 8.Bd3 0-0 9.Nf3 Re8 10.0-0 Nf8 11.h3 Nh5 12.Bxe7 Qxe7 13.Rfe1 g6 14.e4 dxe4 15.Bxe4 Ne6 16.d5 cxd5 17.Nxd5 Qd8 18.Rad1 Bd7 19.Ne5 Nd4 20.Qd2! Rxe5 21.Qxd4 Rxd5 22.Bxd5 Be6 23.Bxe6 Qxd4 24.Rxd4 fxe6 25.Rd7 Ng7 26.Rc1 Ne8 27.Rxb7 Rd8 28.Rxa7 1-0

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 c6 7.Qc2 Nbd7 8.Bd3 0-0 9.Nf3 Re8 10.0-0 Nf8 11.h3 [Karpov and Yermolinsky like this move. It restricts annoying moves like ...Bg4, and in some lines White may be able to hide his B on h2.] 11...Nh5 12.Bxe7 Qxe7 13.Rfe1 [A R opposite the Q should cramp Black's style a bit, hindering his own ...f5-f4 plan.] 13...g6 [Oh yeah, and open the centre if the time is right.] 14.e4 dxe4 15.Bxe4 Ne6 [15...Be6 would still be met by 16.d5 with advantage, but not as big as the game. Black was worried about 16...cxd5 17.Nxd5 Qd8 but that would walk into the pin 18.Nc7 Rc8] 16.d5 cxd5 17.Nxd5 Qd8 18.Rad1 Bd7 19.Ne5 Nd4 [A clever idea, except that unlike in draughts, White doesn't have to capture.] 20.Qd2! Rxe5 21.Qxd4 Rxd5 [desperation] 22.Bxd5 Be6 23.Bxe6 [easily winning, but Moulthun Ly pointed out the even easier [23.Rxe6 fxe6 24.Bxe6+]] 23...Qxd4 24.Rxd4 fxe6 25.Rd7 Ng7 26.Rc1 Ne8 27.Rxb7 Rd8 28.Rxa7 1-0

Capablanca-Fan
11-05-2007, 09:06 AM
This is an example of a central pawn roller

Sarfati,J - Liu,Y [D35]
Peninsula Open (2), 05.05.2007
[J. Sarfati]

1.d4 e6 2.c4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 0-0 7.Bd3 h6 8.Bh4 c6 9.Qc2 a5 10.Nge2 Na6 11.a3 Re8 12.f3 Nc7 13.Bf2 Be6 14.0-0 Bd6 15.h3 Rb8 16.e4 Be7 17.e5 Nd7 18.f4 Nf8 19.f5 Bd7 20.Ng3 f6 21.e6 Bc8 22.Nh5 b6 23.Na4 b5 24.Nc5 a4 25.Qd2 Na6 26.Nxa6 Bxa6 27.Be3 Kh7 28.Rf4 Bd6 29.Rh4 Qe7 30.Rg4! Rb7 31.Rxg7+ Qxg7 32.Nxg7 Rxg7 33.Bf4! Bxf4 34.Qxf4 Rd8 35.Re1 Re7 36.Qh4 Kg7 37.Re3 Nd7 38.Rg3+ 1-0

1.d4 e6 2.c4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 0-0 7.Bd3 h6 8.Bh4 c6 9.Qc2 a5 10.Nge2 Na6 11.a3 Re8 12.f3 Black has clamped down on the minority attack, but his pieces are not well placed to combat a central push 12...Nc7 13.Bf2 This is a disadvantage of ...h6 13...Be6 14.0-0 Bd6 This ends up misplaced. 15.h3 Rb8 16.e4 Be7 [16...dxe4 17.fxe4 is a clear advantage for White, but not as good as the game.] 17.e5 Nd7 18.f4 Now Black is cut in two by this advance. 18...Nf8 19.f5 Bd7 20.Ng3 f6 21.e6 Bc8 22.Nh5 b6 23.Na4 A small time-out from the K-side to stop Black's counterplay 23...b5 24.Nc5 a4 25.Qd2 Na6 26.Nxa6 Bxa6 27.Be3 Kh7 28.Rf4 Bd6 29.Rh4 Qe7 [29...Rb7 30.Nxg7 Rxg7 31.Bxh6+-] 30.Rg4! [30.Nxg7 Qxg7 31.Bxh6 is more complicated because of 31...Qg3 but White would still win with 32.Bg5+ Kg8 33.Rg4] 30...Rb7 31.Rxg7+ Qxg7 32.Nxg7 Rxg7 33.Bf4! Bxf4 34.Qxf4 Rd8 35.Re1 Re7 36.Qh4 Kg7 37.Re3 Nd7 38.Rg3+ Mates in 5 1-0

Kevin Bonham
11-05-2007, 10:28 PM
Good thread Jono.

Against 1.d4 I will usually play move orders that fish for a Semi-Slav, and it surprises me that more lower-rated players do not exchange pawns at the first opportunity and thus obtain either an Exchange QGD or Exchange Slav depending on the move order and perhaps the inclinations of their opponent. Instead they allow themselves to get sucked into the Semi-Slav where they will most likely either get walloped in the Moscow through not understanding the position or get walloped in the Meran through either strategic or tactical errors. (If I really wanted to embarrass them I would learn and play the Botvinnik, but then they might not come back for more next game!)

I would rather play the Black side of the Exchange QGD than the Exchange Slav anyway as at least the position is unbalanced and being able to point a lot of pieces at the opponent's kingside has got to have some uses somewhere. However if white is careful it's not that easy for black to crash through and I have had some frustrating draws where solid but somewhat lower rated white players have dished out the EQGD.

Igor_Goldenberg
14-05-2007, 05:10 PM
It's always a scare that a lower rated white player opt for a simplified solid position. However, I noticed that Zhao does not specifically try to avoid it and wins those positions quite easily.

Capablanca-Fan
14-05-2007, 08:36 PM
It's always a scare that a lower rated white player opt for a simplified solid position. However, I noticed that Zhao does not specifically try to avoid it and wins those positions quite easily.
What examples do you have in mind?

Kevin Bonham
14-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Well, this thread was a red rag to a bull so tonight I decided to allow said variation with Black against Charles Chadwick, who has been responsible for a couple of the above-mentioned frustrating draws (including one at, of all places, Mt Buller.)

I reproduce the exquisite results of this venture for the viewing pleasure of all.

Chadwick (1713) - Bonham (2004)

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Qc2 0-0 7.e3 Bg4 Of course, while it had occurred to me to allow the EQGD next time I got a chance, I had not actually found any time to prepare for it. Apparently this move is rubbish; Fritz rather likes just taking on f6 as a response to it. 8.Bd3 Nbd7 9.Nge2 c6 10.h3 Bh5 11.Nf4 Bg6 12.Nxg6 fxg6 Position unbalanced as desired! At this stage I am really not bothered at all. I had been more concerned about 11.Ng3, in fact. 13.0-0 Nh5 14.Bxe7 Qxe7 15.Be2 Nhf6 16.Rab1 Qe6 At this point I realised, as one does, that the minority attack is going to be a bit of a pain unless I get some play on the kingside pretty fast. 17.b4 g5 18.b5 g4 19.hxg4 Nxg4 20.Bxg4 Qxg4 21.bxc6 bxc6 22.Qe2 Qg5 23.f4 Qf6 24.Rf3 Nb6 25.Nd1 Qf5 26.Rb3 This looks at least OK for Black here. 26...Rf6 27.Rh3 Qe6 28.Nb2 Raf8 29.Qf3 Qf5 30.Nd3 Nc4 31.Rh5 Qe6?! [31...Qg6!? and if 32.Ne5 Nxe5 33.dxe5 R6f7 but all I saw was "aaargh! white passed pawn!" and didn't bother noticing that I would also have one.] 32.Nc5 Qe8?? [32...Qc8 was better but allows him to force a queen swap by 33.Qh3 which given my already shoddy position in the tournament I was trying too hard to avoid!] 33.Qh3! importantly removing the queen from the Ne2 threat and forking h7 and d7, Black cannot fix both 33...h6 34.Nd7 Qg6 35.Nxf8 Rxf8 36.Rh4 Relieved to not have encountered f4 which I thought would snuff out even the remotest Swindle chance, I hoped that with Charles' habitual time trouble my queen and knight might be able to cook up something dodgy. 36...Qc2 37.Qe6+ Not wanting to leave my king too airy on h8 in case of a Rxh6 sac I instead chose 37...Kh7 White's clock ticked down and down and down, below four minutes. Has he lost the plot, I wondered? Surely he's realised by now that the queen and knight battery is ineffectual because he can hide his king on h3. My pessimistic assessment of my ability to be anything other than exchange down and under fire on the kingside in this position was suddenly interrupted by 38.Rxh6+! which mates even faster than if my king was on h8, so I resigned! 1-0

Capablanca-Fan
20-05-2007, 05:13 AM
Chadwick (1713) - Bonham (2004)

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Qc2 0-0 7.e3 Bg4 Of course, while it had occurred to me to allow the EQGD next time I got a chance, I had not actually found any time to prepare for it. Apparently this move is rubbish; Fritz rather likes just taking on f6 as a response to it.

Followed by Qb3 winning a pawn for insufficient counterplay?


Even apart from that, it encourages one of White's plans, f3 followed by e4.
...
38.Rxh6+! which mates even faster than if my king was on h8, so I resigned! 1-0
Not a bad finish. He's only ~1700?

Capablanca-Fan
20-05-2007, 05:23 AM
I should give some games from Black's point of view then.

Mikhail Botvinnik vs Efim Geller Moscow ch-SU 1955 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032377) Black achieved an easy game when he swapped of the light-squared Bs on move 8. But Black shouldn't have got off so lightly, because 8. Qf3! was strong. Black also neutralized the f3 plan with ...c5, and in this case the
Pe3 was weaker than the Pd5.

Milko Bobotsov vs Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian, Lugano 1968 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1106817): Black again swapped off the light-squared Bs. He also played a N to d6, where it helps hold up White's minority attack, eyes e4, and there are also chances of ...b5 followed by ... Nc4. The attack with the pawn sac 33...g5 was most elegant, and Black ended by mating White's Q.

See the notes on that site that come from Kasparov, who said it inspired his own play in Lajos Portisch vs Garry Kasparov, Skelleftea 1989 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070466) .

Desmond
20-05-2007, 09:41 AM
Mikhail Botvinnik vs Efim Geller Moscow ch-SU 1955 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032377) Black achieved an easy game when he swapped of the light-squared Bs on move 8. But Black shouldn't have got off so lightly, because 8. Qf3! was strong.But are you really going to give away the bishop pair with

9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.Qxf6

just to double the pawns?

Capablanca-Fan
20-05-2007, 10:30 AM
But are you really going to give away the bishop pair with

9.Bxf6 Qxf6 10.Qxf6

just to double the pawns?
Geller thought so in his book The Application of Chess Theory. The doubled pawns make it hard to open the game for the Bs. Compare Salomon Flohr vs Emanuel Lasker, Nottingham 1936 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008247). All the same, this position has some defenders among top players now, although without ...h6, Bh4.

Kevin Bonham
20-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Followed by Qb3 winning a pawn for insufficient counterplay?

Actually it is a lot less clear than this, because after 9.Qb3 c5! Black is not doing as badly as may appear, eg:

10.Qxb7 cxd4 11.Nxd5 Nd7 with more than sufficient compensation (11.Qxa8 dxc3 -+ as if 12.Qxb7 cxb2 threatening ...Bc3#; 11.exd4 Qe8+ 12.Nge2 Nc6 -/+)

10.dxc5 d4 11.exd4 Qxd4 and black will recover the pawn without major hassles, or 11...Nc6!? may well be stronger

10.Nxd5 cxd4 11.Nxf6 Qxf6 and White isn't winning the pawn anymore, b7 is thoroughly poisoned.

Fritz seems to think that playing 9.Bd3 first forcing ...Kh8 or ...h6 then 10.Qb3 gets White off the hook of Black's counter-threats. But on closer examination this turns out to be less clear. In the (now) 11.Qxb7 line with 12.Qxa8, 14...Bc3 is no longer #, but Black has 14...Nc6 instead with excellent compensation for the exchange. In the (now) 11.Qxb7 and 12.exd4 line, 13...Nc6 can be softened by 14.Bb5 but after ...Bxe2 15.Nxe2 Rb8 16.Qxc6 Rxb5 Black will soon get the pawn back and is fine. And so on - it looks like the whole 8.Bxf6 line that Fritz sees (my copy is still only Fritz6)isn't really that good for white at all.


Not a bad finish. He's only ~1700?

Charles was over 1850 in 2004 when he was state champion. His rating's gone down since then, partly because he's not ideally suited to guillotine time controls. I expect his rating will start going up again now that increments (albeit typically short ones) have become more common in Tassie tournaments.

Capablanca-Fan
21-05-2007, 04:42 PM
Actually it is a lot less clear than this, because after 9.Qb3 c5! Black is not doing as badly as may appear, eg:

Good point.

This actually goes back a number of years when I helped with coaching some of the leading NZ juniors. One showed the game:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 Bf5

He played 7. Qb3 but against Nbd7! the pawn grab got him into trouble. He asked, wasn't Bf5 supposed to be bad because of Qb3, so I suggested 7. Bxf6 first.

But in your line, the White Q moves twice, and the extra tempo allowed Black to be castled already. I can't see a good way for White to gain a clear advantage here either.

I suggest instead

8.h3, and if Bh5 then 9.Bxf6 Bxf6 10.Qf5 Bg6 11.Qxd5. And if Black retreats, White has gained a move h3 which has been shown to be useful above.


Charles was over 1850 in 2004 when he was state champion.

I can believe it.


His rating's gone down since then, partly because he's not ideally suited to guillotine time controls.

Might be relevant to some who complain that some FMs don't have ratings of 2300 any more. His understanding is still there.

ER
21-05-2007, 05:15 PM
I wonder why, Jono and Boris, aren't giving up their respective careers just for awhile, to work together and produce a high quality How To Play Chess book.
I mean you guys are so good in explaining things, I have learnt more from you by following your suggestions here, than studying chess books.
Thanks for the great advice and support for the average club player.
Cheers and good luck!

ER
21-05-2007, 05:17 PM
By that I don't mean to underestimate contributions of other strong players in the forum. It's just that I really like the way Jono and Boris explain things
Cheers and good luck

Desmond
21-05-2007, 06:34 PM
Thanks for the compliment HK :)

Igor_Goldenberg
22-05-2007, 01:30 PM
What examples do you have in mind?
I saw couple of his games against lower rated players when he played with black 1.d4 d5 and won quickly and easily.
He also beat Bob Smith (2294) with black in 5.Qa4+ Catalan (very drawish line, even more drawish then QGD exchange) in the opening.

Many years (should say decades) ago I observed Vladimir Burmakin (now well known GM), who only played Slav as a junior to win exchange variation with black qite easily and convincing (and quickly - in terms of time).

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2007, 12:21 AM
Casual game tonight featuring a f3-e4 idea for white and ending up (after quite a few mistakes on both sides) in a very unusual endgame! Not absolutely certain all these moves are correct, but the basic ideas are all there.

Kruup-Bonham

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.f3 Bf5 7.Bxf6 Bxf6 8.e4 dxe4 9.fxe4 Bg6 10.Nf3 Bh5 11.e5 Bg5 12.Be2 Bh6 13.0-0 Be3+ 14.Kh1 c6 15.Qb3 Qb6 16.Qxb6 [16.Nb5! cxb5 17.Qxe3 Nc6 +/=] 16...axb6 17.Ne4 0-0 18.Rfd1 Rd8 [18...Ra4! =/+] 19.Nd6 Ra7 20.Nf5 Bg5 21.Nxg5 Bxe2 22.Re1 Bh5 23.Nd6 [23.e6! fxe6 24.Nxg7 Rd5 25.N5xe6 Bf7 26.a3 ±] 23...Bg6 24.Rf1 h6? 25.Ngxf7 Bxf7 26.Rxf7? [26.Nxf7 Rxd4 27.e6 Na6 28.e7 Ra8 29.Nd8 Raxd8 30.exd8=Q+ Rxd8±] 26...Rxd6 27.Raf1 Rxd4 [27...Rd8 is actually fine, eg 28.e6 Re8 29.e7 Nd7] [or 27...Rf6! ] 28.e6 Rxa2? [28...Re4-+] 29.e7 Re4 30.Rf8+ Kh7 31.e8=Q Rxe8 32.Rxe8 Na6 33.Re7 Rxb2 34.h3 Rb5 35.Rff7 Rg5 36.Rxb7 c5 [I forgot that after 36...b5 37.Rb6 I can just play 37...Nb4] 37.Rxb6 Nb4 38.Rb5 Nd3 39.Rd7 Nf4 40.Rd2 Ne6 41.Rc2? Re5? [I forgot that a pawn is defending my rook so 41...Nd4 42.Rbxc5 Nxc2 43.Rxc2= is all OK] 42.g4 h5 43.Kg2 hxg4 44.hxg4 Kg6 45.Rb6 Kg5 46.Rc4 Nd4 47.Kg3 Re3+ 48.Kf2 Rf3+ 49.Kg2 Kxg4 50.Rg6+ Kf5 51.Rxg7 Rd3? [51...Kf6! 52.Rc7 Rf5 reaches KR vs KN] 52.Rxc5+ Kf4 53.Re7?! Rd2+ 54.Kh3? [54.Kf1 Rd1+ 55.Re1 is again KR v KN] 54...Rd3+ 55.Kh4 [55.Kh2 Rd2+ 56.Kg1 Nf3+ 57.Kf1 Nh2+ is drawn anyway] 55...Nf5+ Drawn.

Nalimov server at http://chess.jaet.org/cgi-bin/dtx says the KRR vs KRN position that first arises is drawn.

Capablanca-Fan
14-08-2007, 12:32 AM
Casual game tonight featuring a f3-e4 idea for white ...
Far too early though. I think 6.f3 is outright wrong, esp. met by the usual counter, 6...c5.

For some reason, the javascript wasn't playing through.

Kevin Bonham
14-08-2007, 12:35 AM
Yes, ...c5 would have been better than what I played.

Trying to fix the game viewer. Working for me now.

Desmond
08-11-2007, 07:37 PM
[Event "CRCC Club Championship 2007"]
[Site "Rothwell"]
[Date "2007.11.07"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Thomas, Brian"]
[Black "Truscott, Tony"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D35"]
[WhiteElo "1874"]
[BlackElo "1925"]
[PlyCount "107"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. Qc2 h6 7. Bxf6 Bxf6 8.e3 a6 9. b4 O-O 10. Bd3 a5 11. b5 c5 12. bxc6 Nxc6 13. Qb3 Nb4 14. Bb1 b6 15.Nge2 Ba6 16. O-O Re8 17. Rd1 Bc4 18. Qb2 Qc8 19. a3 Nc6 20. Ba2 Qa6 21. Nf4 Rad8 22. Nfxd5 Bxa2 23. Qxa2 Be7 24. Nc7 Qb7 25. Nxe8 Rxe8 26. Rab1 Rb8 27. Nd5 Bd8 28. a4 Qd7 29. Qb3 Kh8 30. Qb5 Qe6 31. Nf4 Qf6 32. Rbc1 Nb4 33. Qd7 Kh7 34. Nd5 Nxd5 35. Qxd5 Qe7 36. Rc6 Rb7 37. Rd6 Bc7 38. Qxb7 Qxd6 39. g3 Kg8 40. Rc1 Bd8 41. Rc8 Kf8 42. Qc6 Qxc6 43. Rxc6 Ke7 44. Kf1 Kd7 45. Rc2 Kd6 46. Ke2 Kd7 47. Kd3 Be7 48. e4 f6 49. f4 Bd6 50. Kc4 g5 51. fxg5 hxg5 52. Kb5 Bc7 53. Rc6 Bd8 54. Rxb6 1-0

Capablanca-Fan
28-11-2007, 03:26 PM
[Event "CRCC Club Championship 2007"]
[Site "Rothwell"]
[Date "2007.11.07"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Thomas, Brian"]
[Black "Truscott, Tony"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D35"]
[WhiteElo "1874"]
[BlackElo "1925"]
[PlyCount "107"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. Qc2 h6 7. Bxf6 Bxf6 8.e3 a6 9. b4 O-O 10. Bd3 a5 11. b5 c5 12. bxc6 Nxc6 13. Qb3 Nb4 14. Bb1 b6 15.Nge2 Ba6 16. O-O Re8 17. Rd1 Bc4 18. Qb2 Qc8 19. a3 Nc6 20. Ba2 Qa6 21. Nf4 Rad8 22. Nfxd5 Bxa2 23. Qxa2 Be7 24. Nc7 Qb7 25. Nxe8 Rxe8 26. Rab1 Rb8 27. Nd5 Bd8 28. a4 Qd7 29. Qb3 Kh8 30. Qb5 Qe6 31. Nf4 Qf6 32. Rbc1 Nb4 33. Qd7 Kh7 34. Nd5 Nxd5 35. Qxd5 Qe7 36. Rc6 Rb7 37. Rd6 Bc7 38. Qxb7 Qxd6 39. g3 Kg8 40. Rc1 Bd8 41. Rc8 Kf8 42. Qc6 Qxc6 43. Rxc6 Ke7 44. Kf1 Kd7 45. Rc2 Kd6 46. Ke2 Kd7 47. Kd3 Be7 48. e4 f6 49. f4 Bd6 50. Kc4 g5 51. fxg5 hxg5 52. Kb5 Bc7 53. Rc6 Bd8 54. Rxb6 1-0
This shows the danger of being stuck with two weaknesses. Black should have left the P on a6, so it could be exchanged off rather than become a weakness, and recapture on c6 with a P, so it's the only weakness. As played, Black was left with an isolated d-pawn and weak b-pawn. Although he gained considerable apparent activity, it was on a rickety foundation. After 22. Nxd5, it's rapidly downhill.

So will you be #1 for Redcliffe in the QLD Teams? ;)

Desmond
28-11-2007, 07:30 PM
So will you be #1 for Redcliffe in the QLD Teams? ;)I hadn't really considered it, but I suppose it is a possiblity. I won't catch up to Tony's current rating, but I guess it depends on if he is on the way down.

Garvinator
01-12-2007, 02:52 AM
I hadn't really considered it, but I suppose it is a possiblity. I won't catch up to Tony's current rating, but I guess it depends on if he is on the way down.
If your top four is as per Qld Interclub, you will be board 2. Truscott, Thomas, Cashman, Weller.

Ivanchuk_Fan
17-09-2008, 08:05 PM
The setups with Nge2 (instead of Nf3) are also quite interesting. Kasparov among others has used them to great effect.

In the Nf3 variation, 11.h3 looks like the best way to fight for an advantage. Other moves such as 11.Bf6, 11.Rab1 and 11.Rae1 were diffused years ago.

ER
22-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Hi, Ivanchuk's fun!
Just jotting these lines to tell you that, I follow your notes in threads and I always find them very useful! I believe your contribution to this board albeit non bombastic and exuberant, is, nevertheless valuable and encouraging. Good work! Keep it up!
Cheers and good luck!

Kevin Bonham
25-10-2010, 03:28 PM
Dyer - Bonham. Burnie Shines 2010, round 6, G60/+10. Additional comments welcome.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.e3 Be7 7.Bd3 Nbd7 8.Qc2 h6?! I really don't like playing h6 when I might get attacked on the kingside. I was trying to avoid allowing Bxh7 when my knight moves but it turns out that the piece sac for white after g6 is less dangerous than I thought. [8...0-0]
[8...Nh5] [8...Nf8] 9.Bh4 0-0 10.f3 Re8 11.Nge2 c5 I feel here I need to do something before he can get e4 in, despite the positional weakness my choice entails. 12.0-0-0 Explained by the tournament situation, white is playing for a win. 12...cxd4 [12...c4 13.Bf5 Qa5 is probably better than I thought] 13.Nxd4 Nb6 14.Rhe1 Bd7 15.Kb1 Rc8 16.Qf2 Looks dangerous with the idea of the queen attacking on the kingside but white doesn't quite get it going in time. [16.Qb3 a5=] 16...Bb4 17.Nde2 Na4! 18.Rc1 [18.Bxf6 Qxf6 19.Nxd5?? Qxb2#][ 18.Nxd5?? fails to 18...Bxe1 19.Qxe1 (19.Nxf6+ Qxf6! wins as Alastair saw during the game but I didn't) 19...g5] 18...Nxc3+ Perhaps black has better than liquidating here? [18...g5!?] 19.Nxc3 Bxc3 20.Rxc3 Rxc3 21.bxc3 Qb6+ [21...Qa5] 22.Qb2! Qxb2+ [White's idea is that he can allow 22...Rxe3 because after 23.Qxb6 Rxe1+ 24.Bxe1 axb6 25.Bf2 b5 I have no defence to the march of his king up the b-file winning the b-pawn with a plus. We both saw this.] 23.Kxb2 Re6 24.Kc2 Rb6 25.Rb1 Ba4+ 26.Kd2 Rxb1 27.Bxb1 Nd7 28.Bg3 [28.Kd3! Bb5+ 29.Kd4 Bf1 30.Bf5 Nb6 31.Bh3 Kf8 is a possible alternative. White is better.] 28...f6 29.Bf5 Kf7 30.Kd3 g6 31.Bxd7 Agreed drawn.[31.Bh3 f5 32.Kd4 Ke6 is not completely dead but black should be fine, and besides white was well behind on the clock.]

Igor_Goldenberg
25-10-2010, 04:27 PM
Comment on the opening:

In QGD black tries to exchange light squared bishop and white tries to prevent it. After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 white usually succeeds in at least delaying the exchange. White also has a plan with Ne2-g3 followed by f3-e4.
To kill both plans black can play 3...Be7 instead of 3...Nf6 (not applicable to above game as black played Nf6 on move one!).

In the game white should've been happy with the opening and simply play Nf3 followed by 0-0. Queen side castle, especially after f3-c5, is not a good idea.
I also wouldn't play 8...h6, and not because of king side attack danger.
After that move black can never play Bg4-h5-g6 (very useful manoeuvre to neutralise Bd3) or f6 to protect e5 square if necessary. h7 square is usually covered by playing Re8-Nf8.

aelfric
13-01-2014, 08:26 AM
Comment on the opening:
...black can play 3...Be7 instead of 3...Nf6 ....

after 3...Be7, there is a line fun for white. 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 ...c6 6.e3 ...Bf5:D, 6.g4! and 7.h4! I hope for it every game.

MichaelBaron
13-01-2014, 10:08 AM
Its certainly playable...but i would not give g4 and h4 exclamation marks. If black is prepared, he will obtain good counterplay.

Kevin Bonham
07-01-2016, 10:23 PM
Went a long way to curing myself of my hatred of defending against this thing with a win today against an exchange-QGD setup (http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?16240-Kevin-s-Aus-Ch-reserves-games-2016&p=405075&viewfull=1#post405075). However it was far from mainline as white played the rather unambitious 8.Be2.

While preparing for this game I discovered this interesting "fake fianchetto" idea that I had not known about before:

1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Nf3 c6 6.Bg5 Be7 7.Qc2 g6

MichaelBaron
07-01-2016, 11:00 PM
I believe this is quite a standad move, the idea is to play Bf5 and to exchange white square bishops. In fact, this is possibly the main line these days. Black's black squares look weak but the weakness is really hard to exploit.

Capablanca-Fan
09-01-2016, 10:47 AM
I believe this is quite a standad move, the idea is to play Bf5 and to exchange white square bishops. In fact, this is possibly the main line these days. Black's black squares look weak but the weakness is really hard to exploit.

Yes, White normally chooses the move order 5.Bg5 Be7 6.e3 so White can get Bd3 in before Black plays ...Bf5.

Desmond
22-10-2020, 12:07 PM
A rapid game I had. Posted from memory but pretty sure it's right, appart from black possibly inserting h6 at a different moment.
Desmond - Another

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 a6 7. Bd3 Bb4?! [Don't think black can afford to move this bishop again] 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O?! { Inaccuracy. Qb3 was best. } (9. Qb3) 9... Nc6? [the bishop had to go back 9. ... Be7] 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. Nxd5 Qd6 12. Nxb4 (12. Nef4 Qh6) 12... Nxb4 13. Be4 [wanting to play against the c8-bishop by putting pressure on the long diagonal, but black adequately deals with this with c6 and Nd5. Maybe another bishop move would have been better] 13. ...c6 14. a3 Nd5 15. Rc1 Re8 16. Bf3 Nf6 17. Qc2 h6 18. Rfd1 Bg4 19. Qc5 Qxc5 [I was surprised at this, thinking it was in black's interest to keep the queens on, but the computer sees it much the same either way +1.5 or so] 20. Rxc5 Bxf3 21. gxf3 Nd7 22. Rc3 [to have the option to swing to b3] 22. ...Re6 23. Nf4 Rf6 24. Kg2 [defending f3 in case of g5 & Rxf3] 24. ...g5 25. Nh5 [putting the knight on the rim, but this knight has a future on f5 or e4 via g3, and also there are tactics in some lines with the knight eyeing f6] 25. ...Re6 26. Rdc1 f5 [Black has chosen to defend actively, but I felt that he had left some weaknesses behind, and also the Ra8 is currently out of play] 27. d5! cxd5 28. Rc7 Ne5?! [Some tricks involving Rxd7 and Nf6+ but 28... Rd8 seems OK] 29. Rg7+ Kf8 30. Rcc7 g4? { Mistake. Rc6 was best. } (30... Rc6 31. Rxb7 Rg6 32. Rxg6 Nxg6 33. Ng7 Ne7 34. Ne6+ Kf7 35. Nd4 Ke8 36. b4 f4 37. Rb6) 31. fxg4?! [f4 was better, Eg. 31. f4 Ng6 32. Rcf7+ Ke8 33. Nf6+ Rxf6 34. Rxf6] 31... Nxg4?! { Inaccuracy. Rg6 was best. } (31... Rg6 32. Rh7) 32. Rh7 Kg8?! (32... Rg6 33. Nf4) 33. Rcg7+ Kf8 34. Rh8#

Capablanca-Fan
23-10-2020, 01:52 AM
A rapid game I had. Posted from memory but pretty sure it's right, apart from black possibly inserting h6 at a different moment.
Desmond - Another

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 a6 7. Bd3 Bb4?! [Don't think black can afford to move this bishop again] 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O?! { Inaccuracy. Qb3 was best. } (9. Qb3) 9... Nc6? [the bishop had to go back 9. ... Be7] 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. Nxd5 Qd6 12. Nxb4 (12. Nef4 Qh6) 12... Nxb4 13. Be4 [wanting to play against the c8-bishop by putting pressure on the long diagonal, but black adequately deals with this with c6 and Nd5. Maybe another bishop move would have been better] 13. ...c6 14. a3 Nd5 15. Rc1 Re8 16. Bf3 Nf6 17. Qc2 h6 18. Rfd1 Bg4 19. Qc5 Qxc5 [I was surprised at this, thinking it was in black's interest to keep the queens on, but the computer sees it much the same either way +1.5 or so] 20. Rxc5 Bxf3 21. gxf3 Nd7 22. Rc3 [to have the option to swing to b3] 22. ...Re6 23. Nf4 Rf6 24. Kg2 [defending f3 in case of g5 & Rxf3] 24. ...g5 25. Nh5 [putting the knight on the rim, but this knight has a future on f5 or e4 via g3, and also there are tactics in some lines with the knight eyeing f6] 25. ...Re6 26. Rdc1 f5 [Black has chosen to defend actively, but I felt that he had left some weaknesses behind, and also the Ra8 is currently out of play] 27. d5! cxd5 28. Rc7 Ne5?! [Some tricks involving Rxd7 and Nf6+ but 28... Rd8 seems OK] 29. Rg7+ Kf8 30. Rcc7 g4? { Mistake. Rc6 was best. } (30... Rc6 31. Rxb7 Rg6 32. Rxg6 Nxg6 33. Ng7 Ne7 34. Ne6+ Kf7 35. Nd4 Ke8 36. b4 f4 37. Rb6) 31. fxg4?! [f4 was better, Eg. 31. f4 Ng6 32. Rcf7+ Ke8 33. Nf6+ Rxf6 34. Rxf6] 31... Nxg4?! { Inaccuracy. Rg6 was best. } (31... Rg6 32. Rh7) 32. Rh7 Kg8?! (32... Rg6 33. Nf4) 33. Rcg7+ Kf8 34. Rh8#

Yes, Black was on the back foot early on. Losing a tempo with the B then a central P for nothing is no way to play. Your 27.d5 was very strong, returning the extra P to seize the 7th rank. I don't think that Black was OK after 28... Rd8 either, because White just takes on b7 then doubles on the 7th.

I suppose that a computer sees no difference whether the Q-exchange was accepted or avoided. But for carbon-based players, the exchange means less chance for the P-up player to lose the advantage. So I share your surprise.

Desmond
23-10-2020, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the comments CF. I didn't meant to suggest that black was OK in the sense that the position isn't bad after 28. ...Rd8, just that it didn't lose immedately tactically. :)

MichaelBaron
23-10-2020, 03:06 PM
A rapid game I had. Posted from memory but pretty sure it's right, appart from black possibly inserting h6 at a different moment.
Desmond - Another

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 a6 7. Bd3 Bb4?! [Don't think black can afford to move this bishop again] 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O?! { Inaccuracy. Qb3 was best. } (9. Qb3) 9... Nc6? [the bishop had to go back 9. ... Be7] 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. Nxd5 Qd6 12. Nxb4 (12. Nef4 Qh6) 12... Nxb4 13. Be4 [wanting to play against the c8-bishop by putting pressure on the long diagonal, but black adequately deals with this with c6 and Nd5. Maybe another bishop move would have been better] 13. ...c6 14. a3 Nd5 15. Rc1 Re8 16. Bf3 Nf6 17. Qc2 h6 18. Rfd1 Bg4 19. Qc5 Qxc5 [I was surprised at this, thinking it was in black's interest to keep the queens on, but the computer sees it much the same either way +1.5 or so] 20. Rxc5 Bxf3 21. gxf3 Nd7 22. Rc3 [to have the option to swing to b3] 22. ...Re6 23. Nf4 Rf6 24. Kg2 [defending f3 in case of g5 & Rxf3] 24. ...g5 25. Nh5 [putting the knight on the rim, but this knight has a future on f5 or e4 via g3, and also there are tactics in some lines with the knight eyeing f6] 25. ...Re6 26. Rdc1 f5 [Black has chosen to defend actively, but I felt that he had left some weaknesses behind, and also the Ra8 is currently out of play] 27. d5! cxd5 28. Rc7 Ne5?! [Some tricks involving Rxd7 and Nf6+ but 28... Rd8 seems OK] 29. Rg7+ Kf8 30. Rcc7 g4? { Mistake. Rc6 was best. } (30... Rc6 31. Rxb7 Rg6 32. Rxg6 Nxg6 33. Ng7 Ne7 34. Ne6+ Kf7 35. Nd4 Ke8 36. b4 f4 37. Rb6) 31. fxg4?! [f4 was better, Eg. 31. f4 Ng6 32. Rcf7+ Ke8 33. Nf6+ Rxf6 34. Rxf6] 31... Nxg4?! { Inaccuracy. Rg6 was best. } (31... Rg6 32. Rh7) 32. Rh7 Kg8?! (32... Rg6 33. Nf4) 33. Rcg7+ Kf8 34. Rh8#

Winning for white since capturing that d5 pawn.

MichaelBaron
23-10-2020, 08:18 PM
https://tornelo.com/chess/orgs/melbourne-chess-club/games/ecd2df17-99fc-43c2-8701-545a63fb2724?fbclid=IwAR2kyAJk26ELnV2qGl7FtAScpKnF a9PLTk3YypQ7nsUITJ4f3AEDp2ts5qQ

White
2240 ↑5Michael Baron
Black
2518Hrant Melkumyan
Game information
Moves 54
Opening A06 A06
Entered by Live
1. Nf3
d5
2. d4
Nf6
3. c4
e6
4. cxd5
exd5
5. Nc3
c6
6. Bg5
Be7
7. e3
Bf5
8. Bd3
Bxd3
9. Qxd3
Nbd7
10. O-O
O-O
11. Rab1
a5
12. a3
a4
13. Qc2
Qa5
14. Ne5
Rfe8
15. Nxd7
Nxd7
16. Bxe7
Rxe7
17. Rfe1
g6
18. h3
Kg7
19. e4
Rae8
20. e5
b5
21. f4
Qb6
22. Rbd1
f6
23. Kh1
f5
24. Rg1
Rf7
25. Ne2
Nf8
26. Qd3
Ne6
27. Rdf1
h5
28. Rc1
Rh8
29. Rgf1
h4
30. Rc2
Rc7
31. Rfc1
Rhc8
32. Qe3
Rh8
33. Qf2
Kf7
34. Rc3
Rcc8
35. Kh2
Ke7
36. Qe3
Kd7
37. Qf2
Rc7
38. Rd1
Qb8
39. Nc1
Qg8
40. Nd3
g5
41. fxg5
Qxg5
42. Nc5+
Nxc5
43. Rxc5
Rg8
44. Rc3
Kd8
45. Rf3
Rcg7
46. Rd2
Qh5
47. Qf1
Rg5
48. Rdf2
Rf8
49. Rc2
Qg6
50. Rfc3
f4
51. Rxc6
Qf5
52. Rd6+
Ke8
53. Qxb5+
Kf7
54. Rf6+

This thread reminded me that my game vs Melkumyan was QGA Exchange variation.

I think the exchange line can be quite tricky for black to play. If white is playing solidly, hard to get active counter-play so have to equalize patiently first.

Capablanca-Fan
24-10-2020, 12:35 AM
https://tornelo.com/chess/orgs/melbourne-chess-club/games/ecd2df17-99fc-43c2-8701-545a63fb2724?fbclid=IwAR2kyAJk26ELnV2qGl7FtAScpKnF a9PLTk3YypQ7nsUITJ4f3AEDp2ts5qQ

White
2240 ↑5Michael Baron
Black
2518Hrant Melkumyan
Game information
Moves 54
Opening A06 A06
Entered by Live
1. Nf3
d5
2. d4
Nf6
3. c4
e6
4. cxd5
exd5
5. Nc3
c6
6. Bg5
Be7
7. e3
Bf5
8. Bd3
Bxd3
9. Qxd3
Nbd7
10. O-O
O-O
11. Rab1
a5
12. a3
a4
13. Qc2
Qa5
14. Ne5
Rfe8
15. Nxd7
Nxd7
16. Bxe7
Rxe7
17. Rfe1
g6
18. h3
Kg7
19. e4
Rae8
20. e5
b5
21. f4
Qb6
22. Rbd1
f6
23. Kh1
f5
24. Rg1
Rf7
25. Ne2
Nf8
26. Qd3
Ne6
27. Rdf1
h5
28. Rc1
Rh8
29. Rgf1
h4
30. Rc2
Rc7
31. Rfc1
Rhc8
32. Qe3
Rh8
33. Qf2
Kf7
34. Rc3
Rcc8
35. Kh2
Ke7
36. Qe3
Kd7
37. Qf2
Rc7
38. Rd1
Qb8
39. Nc1
Qg8
40. Nd3
g5
41. fxg5
Qxg5
42. Nc5+
Nxc5
43. Rxc5
Rg8
44. Rc3
Kd8
45. Rf3
Rcg7
46. Rd2
Qh5
47. Qf1
Rg5
48. Rdf2
Rf8
49. Rc2
Qg6
50. Rfc3
f4
51. Rxc6
Qf5
52. Rd6+
Ke8
53. Qxb5+
Kf7
54. Rf6+
That's a great scalp!