PDA

View Full Version : Buying a new PC :)



littlesprout85
19-04-2007, 03:31 AM
Sprouty like to first off give a ShoutOut to all The IT Junkys here at chesschats- you all rock :D

On a more serious note- Sprout would like some input on the subjects of computers. Sprout is looking into getting a new computer that is the best. A computer that can handle vista with nps. A computer that is an internet beast and tops for gaming/graphics. :eek:

Sprouty would also like some input on monitors.(Thinking Big here)
:owned:

Sprout is going to set up shop soon and gotz to feel Huge in his office. IMFAO !!!!! :cool:

-Sprout :)

Garrett
19-04-2007, 06:49 AM
Hi Sprouty

Is your question is what brand/type of computer you should buy ?

If so, then a good place to start to research some information would be a PC magazine like PC Home or Australian PC. These magazines often review and compare computers from different suppliers in a range of pricing bands.

From what I can observe, a PC right at the top of the market in terms of performance is often 2x the price of something with only slightly lesser specifications. Unless you have a specific game (or other reason) you want to play you might consider something slightly less than 'state of the art'.

Good luck with the PC.

Cheers
George.

Basil
19-04-2007, 08:53 AM
Good luck with the PC.
You'll need it :uhoh:

http://www.apple.com.au

Aaron Guthrie
19-04-2007, 09:26 AM
You'll need it :uhoh:

http://www.apple.com.auI call your apple and raise you

http://www.bigbanana.com

Basil
19-04-2007, 10:14 AM
I call your apple and raise you

http://www.bigbanana.com

Easy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Pineapple)

Are we off topic yet?

Aaron Guthrie
19-04-2007, 10:47 AM
Easy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Pineapple)Humpty Doo's Big Boxing Crocodile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Big_Boxing_Croc.jpg)

Sir, I doo believe that is checkmate.

Southpaw Jim
19-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Sprout, need some idea of your budget matey.

Desmond
19-04-2007, 11:01 AM
Sprouty - my advice is to set a budget and shop around for the best you can get while sticking to that budget.

Flavour for the month in monitors is widescreen. Also, suggest minimum 19", as there's usually only a small price difference between 17" and 19".

Southpaw Jim
19-04-2007, 11:33 AM
A computer that can handle vista with nps.

I'd avoid Vista like the plague if at all possible. I'd hazard a guess that much of the software you might want to run will not be compatible with Vista. Stick with XP, it's a proven product.


A computer that is an internet beast and tops for gaming/graphics.

Dunno about internet, all you really need is an ethernet card. Whether you go 100Mbit or 1Gbit is dependent on the speed of your internet connection.

As for gaming/graphics, get the best nVidia card you can afford, especially if you like FPS games. Even if it means spending less on your CPU/motherboard/RAM/whatever. For a gamer, IMHO the priority order is:

1.Graphics card
2.RAM
3.CPU/motherboard


Sprouty would also like some input on monitors.(Thinking Big here)

Personally I think 19" is fine for anything unless you're a graphic artist, but that's me. 30" High Def would be nice, but so is the price tag... :eek:

Without knowing more on how you're planning to go about this, I'd strongly recommend you buy the individual parts and put it together yourself, rather than buying a prefab box, eg from Dell/HP/whoever. You'll save heaps and be sure that your PC is exactly as you want it.

Aaron Guthrie
19-04-2007, 11:42 AM
Do LCD screens still have problems with motion?

Rincewind
19-04-2007, 11:52 AM
Do LCD screens still have problems with motion?

I don't play 1st person shooting games but I haven't discerned a problem with mine. I have had a Polyview v398 (http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;663809738;fp;16;fpid;0) for the last 18 months or so.

I too have had no problems with watching movies. I don't do much photo processing but the review said this wasn't so good due to limitations in colour display and dithering algorithms used by the monitor.

The comments on the buttons not being labelled on the fascia, I haven't found this an issue. I agree the build is not very solid but again I have had no problems with this personally. It certainly hasn't fallen apart on me.

littlesprout85
19-04-2007, 05:20 PM
Right-Right more info :uhoh:

Sprouty for starters is looking for something still in department stores & in one tower prefab like amd or maybe intell. Say with cd-dvd burner/usb/ & floppy with some godzilla ram for the gamage factors.(Sprouty has all the classic arcade games on hd right now on this dinosaur).

Would like the pc to have the capabilities to handle vista ( op of the next 8 yrs) the memory etc. could go for x.p for price difference.

This new pc is going to be used for hosting an e-comerce/interactive website in the future and would like to hear some suggestions on the latest internet explorer info.

Sprouty right now has a 19 inch monitor right now (100$) but it takes up the whole desktop :S looking into something more slim and bigger -Yup-Yup

Lets say the price range for both items together 1500$ - should be able to get something fantastic for that bread huh :D

-Sprout :)

ElevatorEscapee
19-04-2007, 06:05 PM
What games do you like to play Mr Sprout?

Garvinator
20-04-2007, 12:47 AM
Would like the pc to have the capabilities to handle vista ( op of the next 8 yrs) the memory etc. could go for x.p for price difference.
As someone else said, stay with XP for a while until all the patches etc have been sorted out with vista and then upgrade.


Lets say the price range for both items together 1500$ - should be able to get something fantastic for that bread huh :D
I take it that is $1500 US dollars? For that amount it should also make breakfast with the bread ;)

Desmond
20-04-2007, 09:08 AM
Sprouty, look for a system with this (minimum):

Intel Core 2 Duo processor
2GB RAM (make sure it's 667Mhz or faster)
Graphics card - nVidia 8800 if you can afforrd it, 7950/7900 if not
Hard drives - work out what will give you the best GB/$ ratio, probably 160GB or 250GB would be a minimum, and make sure they are SATA II.
As I said, I'd go for a 19" monitor (LCD). With your budget you probably won't be able to go more. Bear in mind that a 19" LCD has a viewable area or 1-2" more than your current 19" CRT.

Bill Gletsos
20-04-2007, 01:54 PM
For a great LCD check out the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productlisting.aspx?c=us&category_id=6761&cs=19&l=en

Note that is the US website.

The Australian page is http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/30lcd?c=au&cs=audhs1&l=en&s=dhs

Desmond
20-04-2007, 01:55 PM
Dell. <shudder>

Bill Gletsos
20-04-2007, 02:30 PM
Dell. <shudder>I wasnt commenting on their computers just their widescreen LCD's.

littlesprout85
20-04-2007, 06:53 PM
Right-right

Thats more like it- Thats getting sprout warming up to the tasks- thanks Boris and Bill for those morsels.

Can Sprouty get more of the sandwich now from the peanut gallery here at chesschats- COME ON - In Need of more Input PLZ :confused:

Sprout :)

Desmond
20-04-2007, 06:56 PM
I wasnt commenting on their computers just their widescreen LCD's.I'm not familiar with them. Who manufactures them?

ElevatorEscapee
20-04-2007, 10:47 PM
and whatever you decide, AVOID WINDOWS VISTA at ALL COSTS!!!!

That may have been mentioned before, but it cannot be stressed enough! :)

Davidflude
21-04-2007, 01:00 AM
If you are buying a new machine get lots of memory. I have 4 gigs and it makes a difference.

When writing a magazine article I frequently run Shredder multi-processor version and open office and other programs at once and switching between then is a real joy. It is alwayas a difficult decision as whether to buy athlon or intel. They keep leapfrogging each other. I gather Intel may have the edge at the moment but athlon are reputed to have a four processor unit ready.

Another point worth considering is whether you want a wide screen monitor. It really depends on what sort of things you use your machine for. It is now posible to buy 22 inch monitors for under 500 dollars.

Worth considering if you are upgrading is to turn your old computer into a linux machine

Desmond
21-04-2007, 08:33 AM
and whatever you decide, AVOID WINDOWS VISTA at ALL COSTS!!!!

That may have been mentioned before, but it cannot be stressed enough! :)I don't agree. If you're buying a copy of Windows today, you should get the latest.

Basil
21-04-2007, 12:59 PM
Fixed.


and whatever you decide, AVOID WINDOWS at ALL COSTS!!!!

That may have been mentioned before, but it cannot be stressed enough! :)

ElevatorEscapee
21-04-2007, 06:02 PM
I don't agree. If you're buying a copy of Windows today, you should get the latest.

I do hope you are being sarcastic! :)

Desmond
21-04-2007, 06:39 PM
I do hope you are being sarcastic! :)No, I'm serious. I have been running Vista on my machine for several weeks now. The only problem I have encountered has been with IE7. I switched back to Firefox, which is what I was using with XP anyway.

Bill Gletsos
21-04-2007, 06:42 PM
No, I'm serious. I have been running Vista on my machine for several weeks now. The only problem I have encountered has been with IE7. I switched back to Firefox, which is what I was using with XP anyway.Did you leave UAC enable?

Desmond
21-04-2007, 06:53 PM
Did you leave UAC enable?Yes.

Bill Gletsos
21-04-2007, 06:56 PM
Yes.Cancel or Allow? :owned:

Desmond
21-04-2007, 07:04 PM
Cancel or Allow? :owned:Actually, a MMORPG that I play a fair bit likes to do updates every day or so. With XP that meant that the .exe file was treated as a new program, and you have to manually block or allow it. With Vista, you can set it to always allow the filename, regardless of whether it has been altered.

ElevatorEscapee
22-04-2007, 03:17 PM
Hi Boris, thank you for your insight as a Vista user, it is much appreciated. :)

It all depends what you want to use it for, I guess...

Have you noticed any affect of the proactive copyright protection component, the so called "Digital Rights Management"?

http://www.forbes.com/security/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html

Even if people are not into downloading things, I think they should be made very well aware of the potentially deleterious effects of this particular software "upgrade" and its insidious nature (ie using up a lot of processor time even if you have downloaded nothing). :)

Basil
22-04-2007, 03:24 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/scene66/smilies/pmsl.gif

Desmond
22-04-2007, 04:01 PM
Have you noticed any affect of the proactive copyright protection component, the so called "Digital Rights Management"?No.

Desmond
22-04-2007, 04:02 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/scene66/smilies/pmsl.gif
ever heard of i-tunes? :doh:

Basil
22-04-2007, 06:05 PM
ever heard of i-tunes? :doh:
Umm yes. Hand in hand with iPod and iLife that have had Microflog and a host of copycats playing catch up cricket with inferior products ever since.

Should I take that gun lest you blast your remaining foot to Christendom?

No this is not an invitation to anyone to start the 93rd religious thread.

Desmond
22-04-2007, 07:23 PM
Umm yes. Hand in hand with iPod and iLife that have had Microflog and a host of copycats playing catch up cricket with inferior products ever since.Ok, I'm not going to get into this too deeply, because the topic is whether sprouty should get XP or Vista. My line about i-tunes was purely a rebuttal of your laughter at DRM, which i-tunes also has built-in.

Basil
22-04-2007, 08:46 PM
But I wasn't giggling at that bit :uhoh:

Desmond
22-04-2007, 10:27 PM
But I wasn't giggling at that bit :uhoh:
ok - my mistake. Would you care to elaborate?

Basil
22-04-2007, 10:33 PM
Would you care to elaborate?
Not this bit.

Hi Boris ... It all depends what you want to use it for, I guess... Have you noticed any affect of the proactive copyright protection component, the so called "Digital Rights Management"?
But this bit
http://www.forbes.com/security/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html

Even if people are not into downloading things, I think they should be made very well aware of the potentially deleterious effects of this particular software "upgrade" and its insidious nature (ie using up a lot of processor time even if you have downloaded nothing).

Desmond
22-04-2007, 10:36 PM
Yeah, this guy should be writing for *******s. :hand:

Basil
22-04-2007, 10:39 PM
Yeah, this guy should be writing for *******s. :hand:
He did win King Non Sequitur HADBBA. He can dribble with the best of us, except he deliberately dribbles in the opposite direction - it's a talent! I'm a big fan.

Always off-topic. Always non offensive (unless your name is Garvin), where thread drift becomes an immediate non negotiable offence. I wanna be on a date with Garvo when his lady starts idle chit chat.

littlesprout85
23-04-2007, 02:49 AM
Alrighty then -
An Earlier Question ask by elevators "whats sproutys favorite arcade games". Here is sproutys top ten all time favorites ;)

#1- Astroids
#2- Space Invaders
#3- Missle Command
#4- Defenders
#5- Sinastar
#6- Pac-Man
#7- Robotron 2084
#8- Ghost & Goblins
#9- Astroids Deluxe
#10- Centipede

pax
23-04-2007, 11:36 AM
Worth considering if you are upgrading is to turn your old computer into a linux machine

Or better yet, turn your new computer into a Linux machine!!

Aaron Guthrie
23-04-2007, 11:46 AM
Alrighty then -
An Earlier Question ask by elevators "whats sproutys favorite arcade games". Here is sproutys top ten all time favorites ;)

#1- Astroids
#2- Space Invaders
#3- Missle Command
#4- Defenders
#5- Sinastar
#6- Pac-Man
#7- Robotron 2084
#8- Ghost & Goblins
#9- Astroids Deluxe
#10- CentipedeSo you'll be getting an amiga then?

Desmond
23-04-2007, 12:35 PM
Or better yet, turn your new computer into a Linux machine!!Isn't that what PS2's are for? ;)

Desmond
23-04-2007, 12:41 PM
I weanna be on a date with Garvo You heard it here first, people. :eek:

Basil
23-04-2007, 10:16 PM
Sprout would like some input on the subjects of computers. Sprout is looking into getting a new computer that is the best.
Suggest this (http://www.apple.com/macpro/) as the best. You did ask for the best, didn't you?


A computer that can handle vista with nps. A computer that is an internet beast and tops for gaming/graphics.
Is there a reason why you want Vista & Windows? If gaming is important to you (and I think it is), then you'll have to pass on the best :eh: All I can suggest is go to a reputable retailer and buy quality components. Processor and monitor will depend on your budget.


Sprouty would also like some input on monitors
How about 30" of gorgeousness (http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html)? Yup that's not only T-H-I-R-T-Y, but also G-E-O-R-G-E-O-U-S. (better check with pax though, he has a different tastes to me).


Sprout is going to set up shop soon and gotz to feel Huge in his office. IMFAO !!!!! :cool:
Good luck Sproutz. I'm sure you'll buy well and it'll look grand! :cool:

ER
23-04-2007, 10:36 PM
gorgeousness

yuck thats an apple! :rolleyes:
Cheers and good luck!

Basil
23-04-2007, 10:42 PM
yuck thats an apple! :rolleyes:
Cheers and good luck!
They now sell them at David Jones & Myer (Grace Bros). Check the gorgeousness (next to the PC snap together jobs) - they're all in the same section ;)

You won't be the first PC plonker to say "Oh my, jolly me roger, they are sexy devils aren't they?" Then you can have permission to prattle on about games and ... and ... um is there anything after games? (No, I won't let you count viruses and patches as plusses)

Go on, mate. Go have a look.

ER
23-04-2007, 10:48 PM
SBS Staff Discount from Apple Computers

7% - 18% Discount for SBS Staff from Apple Computers.

Visit the APPLE STORE and get the SBS STAFF discount on all the products listed -- with secure credit card payments and free delivery.Click here buy online.

Note that delivery times are usually 3-5 working days.

Suffer!!!
Cheers and good luck!

ER
23-04-2007, 10:49 PM
and there is a store in Flinders Street, just 50 metres away from where I am!!!
:)

Desmond
23-04-2007, 10:51 PM
Suggest this (http://www.apple.com/macpro/) as the best. You did ask for the best, didn't you?Umm yes, I'll have a Mac please, with a couple of Intel Xeon processors, an nVidia graphics card, and Windows please. Hang on a sec, didn't I want a Mac? :doh:

Ahhh, the saving grace. Paint it white would ya?

Basil
23-04-2007, 10:54 PM
That's excellent! Go have a look. V. interested in your report.

Ooops - forgot to show you something. Have a look inside your beige/ black/ cheapo dodgy sprayed silver/ red/ whatever thing and look at its engineeri... I mean snapped togetherness and then have a look at this (http://www.apple.com/macpro/gallery/qtvr.html).

Yum. Apple. Gorgeous. Class.

MMMM No patches. No Vista.

Yum :P

Basil
23-04-2007, 10:55 PM
Umm yes, I'll have a Mac please, with a couple of Intel Xeon processors, an nVidia graphics card, and Windows please.

Naughty. You've tried this one before and it didn't win then, either. Have another go.

It doesn't come with Windoze. Intel ain't PC. The engineering is mac and so is the software (well hybrid now). And trust you to say 'paint' :doh:

Desmond
23-04-2007, 11:01 PM
Naughty. You've tried this one before and it didn't win then, either. Have another go.Actually, it did. You're just in denial. Go ahead; deny it!


It doesn't come with Windoze.Yeah. It's an upgrade.

Intel ain't PC.But they are Mac?

The engineering is macWell, what a lucky break that they independently came up with the same CPU socket that houses an Intel processor. What are the odds?

and so is the software (well hybrid now).Yeah, the software sure is Mac. Other vendors avoid them like the plague.

Desmond
23-04-2007, 11:08 PM
Another time I spanked Howard's bottom on this issue. (http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=4559)

Basil
23-04-2007, 11:13 PM
Another time I spanked Howard's bottom on this issue.

I'm not saying I object to the idea (although I do strenuously), but what was the winning point? I can only remember your talking about everything except the issues of engineering, viruses, patches etc, ad nauseam, etc..

So, the winning point for Windgrime is ... ?

Basil
23-04-2007, 11:20 PM
Yeah. It's an upgrade.
It's not an upgrade. It's an option they sell about 8 a year of for PC blobs who want to jump ship :clap: and take a while to get their water wings. I've never seen a copy - ever. I don't know anyone who owns a copy.

But they are Mac?
No.

Well, what a lucky break that they independently came up with the same CPU socket that houses an Intel processor.
Mac switched to Intel - dedicated independent processor manufacturers. They're the best processors. And more cost-efficient, too. The processor is neither mac nor PC. Obfuscation & wibble.

Yeah, the software sure is Mac. Other vendors avoid them like the plague.
Whoops. Dribble alert. Which vendors avoid what? No talk of games, please. You've already proved that PCs are best for pimply teenagers.

Desmond
24-04-2007, 08:39 AM
Howard, have a look at what Sprouty asked for. Basically three things. Mac can deliver 1/3. 1/3 is fail mark is practically any endeavour you care to mention. I suppose Mac lovers think that's good.

Regarding gaming being for teenagers, that is really an archaic view.

Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what, if any, part of the engineering you know for a fact that was developed inhouse by Mac.

Basil
24-04-2007, 12:57 PM
Naughty naughty naughty Boris. I will answer these questions like I have answered all your others. But then enough.

You have ignored my questions. Naughty obfuscating naughty naughty Boris;)

And distracted this discussion with irrelevancies like Intel and the 'fail' concept.
Naughty naughty naughty, Boris.

I've listed what mac's credential are. You repeatedly fail to list what microflog's are. Naughty PC boy. Now answering your latest battery:


Howard, have a look at what Sprouty asked for.
I did. And I addressess them with my first serious post yesterday. (Before you and HK got pointy. Yes you did. You both got pointy.


Perhaps you would like to elaborate on what, if any, part of the engineering you know for a fact that was developed inhouse by Mac.
I would. But first. Are you asking me because you don't know or you dispute it?

Desmond
24-04-2007, 02:07 PM
<snip>You have ignored my questions. Naughty obfuscating naughty naughty Boris;)That is not true. I addressed them, just didn't include the quotes.

Your point 1 was in response to my Windows for Mac comment. My comment was a joke. Your response was a joke (8 copies a year? :eek:), what did you expect; a dissertation?

Your second was about Intel processors. My argument, as you already know, is that as Mac's outsource more and more of their componentry to other vendors, they lose a piece of the "Mac-ness". If you dispute this (and you apparently do) perhaps you would care to provide some sort of definition of what it takes to be a Mac. If it's not the hardware, what is it?

Your final point questioned my assertion that the central problem with Mac is that it is not compatible with many vendors. You ask me to name some other than game manufacturers. Whilst it would be possible and quite easy to do this, I see no point in giving you the concession that games are not a significant factor. It was one of Sprouty's initial criteria.


And distracted this discussion with irrelevancies like Intel and the 'fail' concept.
Naughty naughty naughty, Boris.It's not irrelevant, as discribed above.


I've listed what mac's credential are. You repeatedly fail to list what microflog's are. Naughty PC boy. Actually, I already have. You just think they don't count for some unfathomable reason.


I did. And I addressess them with my first serious post yesterday. (Before you and HK got pointy. Yes you did. You both got pointy.Maybe that is true, maybe not. Can't really be bothered looking through the last few pages to see who "started" it. It is an ongoing debate that you are only too willing to partake in.


I would. But first. Are you asking me because you don't know or you dispute it?Actually, I'm asking because I think that you don't know.

ER
24-04-2007, 04:31 PM
... (Before you and HK got pointy. Yes you did. You both got pointy)...


:owned:

I am a well "rounded" (!!!) guy mate, you won't find any pointy parts on me!!! :P

cheers and good luck! :)

Basil
24-04-2007, 06:17 PM
Re: Windows For Mac

My comment was a joke.
OK. We shall talk of 'Windick for Mac' no more. (Although I read 'the joke' as serious commentary in both threads)

Intel processors.

My argument, is that as Mac's outsource more and more of their componentry to other vendors, they lose a piece of the "Mac-ness".
Yes, you're right. They lost that bit of their mac-ness. My position is that we are comparing Apples with PCs. And the out-sourced processor is not a PC thing either. So while macs have lost that part of their mac thing, PCs never had their own equivalent anyway. We might as well argue about who supplies the electricity :eek:


... if you dispute this (and you apparently do)
Invention. I've never disputed that macs lost that part of their mac-ness.

What I am saying is that macs are still macs (see below for some excellent reasons), whereas you are trying to build a case that macs aren't macs anymore.

You're chipping at a superior product to avoid discussing an inferior one. Your two reasonable requests for concession have been made:
1) Mac doing away with their processor (although not a plus for the PC case)
2) PCs being better gamers (by virtue of software availability - certainly not because of graphics or stability!)

You haven't made the case for PCs. In fact you haven't even attempted to.


perhaps you would care to provide some sort of definition of what it takes to be a Mac.
:: Design :: (casing and OS aesthetics)
:: Software stability :: (no viuses, no critical patches - ever)
:: Software compatibility :: (the machine just won't stop working because a new bit arrived elesewhere)
:: Overall reliability :: They just don't break-down like PCs do
:: Leading edge software :: (often copied in style and substance).
:: Graphics superiority ::
:: Brand loyalty ::
:: Shelf-life of machine :: (total cost of ownership, backing up re-installing)
:: Simplicity :: Pioneering 'plug 'n play', 'hot-swapping', universal drivers etc.

Now you have a go :owned: :whistle:

Vendor Software

You ask me to name some other than game manufacturers. Whilst it would be possible and quite easy to do this, I see no point in giving you the concession that games are not a significant factor.
Games are a significant factor - for those who like games. I have never disputed this. I said so to Sproutz. I said so in the shoutbox the other day. Stop rehashing your one point when it's been conceded. I am looking for a case for PCs that goes beyond that. I can wait.

You said (and you didn't qualify it to gaming) "vendors avoided macs like the plague". If you had limited your statement to gaming; the impact and the significance of it would have been greatly reduced. You made a broad statement. I'm calling it to account or qualification.

Made The Case For A PC

Actually, I already have.
Sorry. Missed them. Would you be good enough to point form them just to jog my memory.

Engineering

Actually, I'm asking because I think that you don't know.
Wriggler. I've already said I would say. But before I do, I wanted to know if you think mac has pioneered engineering or not.

Desmond
24-04-2007, 06:58 PM
:naughty:

You're turn to address my points now.

1. Do you agree that mac can only meet 1 of sprouty's 3 central criteria?
2. Do you agree that your assertion that gaming is only for "pimply teenagers" is an archaic view?
3. What part of the engineering do you know for a fact is developed by Mac?

Regarding 3, there are many types of engineering. When you initially brought up the subject, for some reason my mind thought of the IEEE, and I was wondering whether you were attributing some of those standards to Mac. Still wondering. Maybe you're referring to the software side. You see, this all relates to what you define a Mac as. I don't see your "definition" as a definition at all.

Basil
24-04-2007, 07:52 PM
1. Do you agree that mac can only meet 1 of sprouty's 3 central criteria?
No.

Sprout asked for

Sprout is looking into getting a new computer that is the best.
No I don't agree. Best is subjective. If best is for gamez, then PC is the go. Other things, Mac wins overall.


A computer that can handle vista with nps.
I'd like to say that mac can handle vista because you opened the window with 'Mac For Windows' thing.
Instead I will say that penalising a mac for not running Vista is like penalising a PC for not running OSX. Silly.


A computer that is an internet beast
Mac fits this. I owned an internet cafe entirely on macs. You were a patron remember ;)


and tops for gaming
PC wins


/graphics
Mac wins


Sprouty would also like some input on monitors.(Thinking Big here)

Mac wins. They're excellent.

Score:
Overall 'Best': Mac
Internet Beast: Mac by a short nose (delivery equal, no viruses ever wins)
Gaming : PC woo-hoo :clap:
Graphics : Mac
Monitors Mac



2. Do you agree that your assertion that gaming is only for "pimply teenagers" is an archaic view?
Yes. I agree. It's not just for pimply teenagers. Gaming is very important.


3. What part of the engineering do you know for a fact is developed by Mac?
Product engineering. Software engineering. Design engineering.
All in one unit. One piece of plastic (back then). Sound reduction. Heating reduction. Size reduction. Design concepts that have become iconic etc..

Now would you please state the case for the PCs. Include games if you wish as it appears integral to the proposition.

Desmond
24-04-2007, 08:33 PM
No I don't agree. Best is subjective. If best is for gamez, then PC is the go. Other things, Mac wins overall.Best is not one of the criteria. It is a measurement of the criteria. You are correct in that it is subjective, which puzzles me why you then say that the answer is Mac.


I'd like to say that mac can handle vista because you opened the window with 'Mac For Windows' thing.
Instead I will say that penalising a mac for not running Vista is like penalising a PC for not running OSX. Silly.It is one of the criteria. One that Mac fails.


Mac fits this. I owned an internet cafe entirely on macs. You were a patron remember ;)Agree. This is the one of three that Mac can do. PC can too. You then go on to say that Mac wins by a nose. I'm not even going to bother getting into it. Both do the job.



PC wins {Gaming}Agreed. That makes the 1/3 score for Mac I mentioned.



Mac wins {Graphics}Mac cannot possibly win this if you are talking about hardware. With my PC, if a better graphics card is released, I just go and buy it (if I choose). If you're not talking about hardware, then what are you talking about?



Mac wins. They're excellent.{Monitors}I really would consider this a supplementary decision, since you can stick whatever monitor you want onto whatever system. Sure Mac has nice monitors. So do many other brands. Not a win to Mac by any stretch.



Score:
Overall 'Best': Mac
Internet Beast: Mac by a short nose (delivery equal, no viruses ever wins)
Gaming : PC woo-hoo :clap:
Graphics : Mac
Monitors MacWow, what a wealthof neutrality you are :rolleyes: including, not even counting one of the main criteria (Windows).




Yes. I agree. It's not just for pimply teenagers. Gaming is very important.Correct, it's one of sprouty central criteria. Mac fails.


Product engineering. Software engineering. Design engineering.
All in one unit. One piece of plastic (back then). Is that it? I thought you were going to actually name some standard that PC owes its success to Mac for. Disappointing.


Sound reduction. Heating reduction. Size reduction.Intel. Intel. Intel. What do you think makes the Core 2 Duo so good? Oh wait, I forget. This is when you start talking about Windows being a copy of Mac OS.


Design concepts that have become iconic etc..I don't accept this to be true, but even if I did, where does sprouty mention he wants an ornament?


Now would you please state the case for the PCs. Include games if you wish as it appears integral to the proposition.PC meets all the central criteria for sprouty. Mac does not. Nothing ypou say will change this.

Basil
24-04-2007, 08:36 PM
PC meets all the central criteria for sprouty. Mac does not.
Which is what I said (http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=151609&postcount=47) to Sprout when I answered his question. I agree that Sproutz probably needs a PC (although his top 10 games are available on mac).

As far as the other question of which is a better machine, I'm passing now. Thanks Brian. If you ever want to state the case for PC's, that'll be great.

For the record, my case for the macs was:

:: Design :: (casing and OS aesthetics)
:: Software stability :: (no viuses, no critical patches - ever)
:: Software compatibility :: (the machine just won't stop working because a new bit arrived elesewhere)
:: Overall reliability :: They just don't break-down like PCs do
:: Leading edge software :: (often copied in style and substance)
:: Graphics superiority ::
:: Brand loyalty ::
:: Shelf-life of machine :: (total cost of ownership, backing up re-installing)
:: Simplicity :: Pioneering 'plug 'n play', 'hot-swapping', universal drivers etc.

Basil
24-04-2007, 08:53 PM
:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=151397&postcount=17

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=141877&postcount=5

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=150457&postcount=35

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=150006&postcount=34

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=146635&postcount=16

Bill Gletsos
24-04-2007, 08:55 PM
I'd like to say that mac can handle vista because you opened the window with 'Mac For Windows' thing.
Instead I will say that penalising a mac for not running Vista is like penalising a PC for not running OSX. Silly.It is one of the criteria. One that Mac fails.Actually that isnt correct.
Macs can run Vista via Parallels Desktop for Mac.
VmWare Fusion will also run Vista but that is still in beta.

Lastly you can dual boot a Mac into Vista under the Boot Camp 1.2 Beta on a Mac.

Boot Camp is scheduled to ship as part of Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard" later this year. It may also be shipped seperately for users running 10.4 "Tiger".

Garvinator
24-04-2007, 08:57 PM
Silly question time from a member of the peanut gallery.

Isnt most of this debate more about which operating systems are better?

To me, that is where most of the problems lie, as in how 'secure' the OS is, what does the OS enable you to do, do you have to install patches?

Also, does the company who makes the OS, use its customers as guinea pigs to work out all the flaws :doh:

Desmond
24-04-2007, 09:01 PM
:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=151397&postcount=17

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=141877&postcount=5

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=150457&postcount=35

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=150006&postcount=34

:P http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=146635&postcount=16
Interesting that you should attempt to use my own objectivity and openness against me.

Basil
24-04-2007, 09:02 PM
Interesting that you should attempt to use my own objectivity and openness against me.
I'm not using it against you. It's for your own benefit ;)

Basil
24-04-2007, 09:04 PM
Silly question time from a member of the peanut gallery.

Isnt most of this debate more about which operating systems are better?

To me, that is where most of the problems lie, as in how 'secure' the OS is, what does the OS enable you to do, do you have to install patches?

Nothing silly. It's a big part in assessing which is a better machine/ proposition.

Desmond
24-04-2007, 09:06 PM
I'm not using it against you. It's for your own benefit ;)Ok Howard, believe what you want. I stand by all my comments you linked to there.

Basil
24-04-2007, 09:16 PM
Ok Howard, believe what you want. I stand by all my comments you linked to there.
Excellent. This is huge evidence detracting from PCs. PCs ARE a disaster at worst, sub-standard at best.

Microflog and the whoooooooooooole global hoodwink is

- Based on anti-competitive practices (Sprouty take note! :P )
- Which made Gates the richest guy in the world,
- A monopoly which is the sole cause of the extensive games programs written for PCs

If you ever want to state the case for PCs, that'd be great. For the record, mine was

:: Design :: (casing and OS aesthetics)
:: Software stability :: (no viruses, no critical patches - ever)
:: Software compatibility :: (the software won't have a fit because a new bit arrived elsewhere)
:: Overall reliability :: The boxes just don't break-down like PCs do
:: Leading edge software :: (often copied in style and substance)
:: Graphics superiority ::
:: Brand loyalty ::
:: Shelf-life of machine :: (total cost of ownership, backing up re-installing, time spent with sundry fiddling)
:: Simplicity :: Pioneering 'plug 'n play', 'hot-swapping', universal drivers, one piece unit etc.

Basil
24-04-2007, 09:20 PM
Oh and macs have heaps of games too! ;)

Sadly only thousands, not millions.

littlesprout85
25-04-2007, 06:17 PM
Wow !!!!
Now We Are Having fun on sprouts little thread here. :cool:

Thanks you HD's & Boris for slugging it out on me thread here on this subject. Got alot of info to sort throu now and consider. Really Sprout does appreciate all this input. Plz keep it coming - really like the peanut gallery(ggray & Heavys)for some outside tips.

Thanks Bill for showing up to this little dicussion here on sprouty thread too ;)
Glad you all are taking into effects about sprouts 3 main criteria points here. For it is important to focus in on these. Sprout was just looking into a new pc that will take a beating and will stand a good long time before it goes obsolete within 8 years.

Also the op system is a major concern, due to the facts about this monopoly that gates does have on OP systems. If it continues it will be vista for the short haul and the rest will go B-Bye within a couple years. Look at this fact - when win 95 hit- three yrs later win 98 :eek: which really was a great upgrade for Gaming.(win 98 is the best and most stable for gaming off & online) Then out of nowhere came win ME (big joke) a couple yrs later. Then onto windows xp a couple yrs after that. (sprouty is seeing a trend here). No wonder Gates is one of the richest.

Windows 98 is by far the most stable of all of these op systems when it comes to gaming and IE. But 8 yrs later in 06' it was taken off the security updates and now is going- Going- Gone :C

Next yr in 08 Windows ME is gone :D which isnt a big change, and that op system really does bite when it comes to gaming and its so difficult to get around da bugs when it comes to internet security- and XP isnt much better. Need to really be a computer geek to get these last two op system to setup and run properly.

Lets just keep this discussion going, When Elevators ask sprouty What games were his Favorites, Dont think he was thinking about wat type of pc will fit the task. Sprouty just was answering the question.

Lets just give yea all a little more insight. Sprout has all these games (top ten) right now on this pc and about 20 others all in perfect harmony running strong. All with only 32 mbs of RAM(one is borrowed from video card) :S
Along with only a 4 gig HD :o And to top this all sprouty op system is Windows 98 AUGH!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

To Even still be kicking so strong for so long on the internet is a wonder- this is due to the IT prowlness of the sprout and alot of Hard work. This pc is alot like Cartmans Trapper Keeper on Southpark for it has kept up with evolution and then some. Took alot to get Java Script and the applets working properly just to navigate internet gaming sights. As well as these are really needed to be able to handle video clips and friggin advertisements.

Now you all know that Sprout must be insain and a twisted genius just to be here today in his domain(ShoutBox) with such a dinosaur. Thus this is why sprout has started this thread. :clap:

-Sprout :)

Desmond
27-04-2007, 02:35 PM
Those unsure of whether to purchase XP or Vista might find this document (http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf) useful.

ER
28-04-2007, 08:58 AM
Lets just give yea all a little more insight. Sprout has all these games (top ten) right now on this pc and about 20 others all in perfect harmony running strong. All with only 32 mbs of RAM(one is borrowed from video card) :S
Along with only a 4 gig HD :o And to top this all sprouty op system is Windows 98 AUGH!!!!!!!!!!:eek:



Somehow, I knew lilsprouty was an IT genius! :):clap:
On ya Sprouty!
Cheers and good luck!

littlesprout85
02-05-2007, 01:48 AM
RAwR !!!!!

Ufta !!!! This Thread is starting to sizzle :P

Sprouty is probably going with something bigger than 19 inch on the monitor, any comments on bands,etc would be helpful.

On the HD side of the coin :0
Sprouts would like to know more about Windows Vista. Specifically the requirements to run vista. (how much memory-ram etc ) Probably will go with Windows XP for now, but would like to have enough ram & memory for future adventures.Ermmm are duel core hds better than single :hmm:

Moving onz to the RAM -
Sprout really needs alot of RAM for gaming. Sprout is thinking more than 256 RAM is needed here. How much RAM does the Jedi Weld,IMFAO -lol

-Sprout :)

Bill Gletsos
02-05-2007, 03:37 PM
Moving onz to the RAM -
Sprout really needs alot of RAM for gaming. Sprout is thinking more than 256 RAM is needed here. How much RAM does the Jedi Weld,IMFAO -lol

-Sprout :)You will need a lot more than 256MB to run Vista. I'd suggest a minimum of 1GB with 2GB preferable.

P.S. I currently have 2G of ram in each of a Mac laptop, desktop and PC desktop.

pax
02-05-2007, 04:01 PM
You will need a lot more than 256MB to run Vista. I'd suggest a minimum of 1GB with 2GB preferable.

I think you would struggle to find less than 512MB in any new PC. Go for 2GB if you want to consider Vista.

littlesprout85
04-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Right Onz !!!!
Sprouty is feelin da prowlness of the chessmasters in here now. Thanks for the replay pax & Bill ;)

Looks like sprouty was thinking too small in the ram department- 2 gigs for ram would be nice and definatly more than 1 gig for basement deal - hehe

So thats good- and More advice on HD memory. Is deul hds better than just one :eek: The Sprout must know- WAT IS THE MASTER WELDING !!!!!

-Sprout :)

Bill Gletsos
04-05-2007, 07:14 PM
You can never have too much hard disk space. ;)

Garvinator
04-05-2007, 07:38 PM
Is deul hds better than just one :eek:
I take it you mean duel core hds. Of course duel core is better than single (from my understanding).

If you can get a quad core, that is even better ;)

Desmond
04-05-2007, 07:54 PM
hard drives don't have "cores". I assume sprouty is talking about dual core CPUs, in which case you'd be hard presssed to find much left in the single core market.

littlesprout85
17-05-2007, 07:39 PM
Right -Right

Boris you are correct, will consider getting duel if can afford it. The brands that might consider now are like Intell- AMD- Parkard Bell - & the monitor will be larger than 21 inches for gaming along with 1-2 gigs of ram ;)
Hopefully it will have an ocean of memory and for now looking for Xp for the op system.

Is sprouty forgetting something- what is da sprout over looking -hmmm:hmm:

-Sprout :)

Basil
18-05-2007, 12:14 AM
:shhh:

littlesprout85
21-05-2007, 01:28 AM
:naughty: Shhhh !!!! da sprouty -Imao

-Sprout :)

ElevatorEscapee
29-05-2007, 09:17 PM
So, what did you buy? :D

Garvinator
30-05-2007, 12:04 PM
So, what did you buy? :D
I want to know this as well :)

littlesprout85
01-08-2007, 08:15 PM
Wow- Got a great response from the I.T. Junkers here at ChessChats - Thanks to everyone who has answered some of the sprouts end-less questions. :S

Going to be getting a AMD pc with duel core processor. It will have at least 256 RAM. Running on Windows XP. Also with at least 40 gigs of memory for starters.

Lets see, getting a cheap mag monitor at least 21 inch to fit into the sprouts budget nicely. Nothing to fancy but this pc will be alot better than this dino sprouty is working with now :D

- Sprout :)

Garvinator
01-08-2007, 09:00 PM
Going to be getting a AMD pc with duel core processor. It will have at least 256 RAM. Running on Windows XP. Also with at least 40 gigs of memory for starters.
I would have that most windows packages now a days would be with Vista. How come you have chosen windows xp?

Desmond
02-08-2007, 07:33 PM
I think the market is about 50:50 at the moment. Microsoft will stop shipping XP soon though (late August I think it is) so they will mostly dry up probably before the end of the year.

littlesprout85
03-08-2007, 10:12 PM
awww nice,

Thanks for that wise tip boris :o)

Really ggrays, the choice was because sprouty can get a pc cheaper pre-loaded with XP than anything loaded with vista here stateside. Also Windows XP is more sprouty friendly.(sprout is use to working with dinosaurs)

Another good think about XP is that its already tested & the bugs are known now & how to correct where as in vista-New Horizons there m8's :o

Sprouty just really wants a pc that he can hit the ground running without any IT hangups.

- Sprout :)

Trent Parker
04-08-2007, 10:43 PM
Ha!!!! Sprouty should come and use my windows ME then ROTFL

I'm looking to get a new computer soon. Went looking today....

Davidflude
08-08-2007, 12:22 PM
Wow- Got a great response from the I.T. Junkers here at ChessChats - Thanks to everyone who has answered some of the sprouts end-less questions. :S

Going to be getting a AMD pc with duel core processor. It will have at least 256 RAM. Running on Windows XP. Also with at least 40 gigs of memory for starters.

Lets see, getting a cheap mag monitor at least 21 inch to fit into the sprouts budget nicely. Nothing to fancy but this pc will be alot better than this dino sprouty is working with now :D

- Sprout :)

When you get the money upgrade to about 2 gig of memory. I am running a dual core athlon with 2 gig and it burns rubber.

Basil
08-08-2007, 12:32 PM
When you get the money upgrade to about 2 gig of memory. I am running a dual core athlon with 2 gig and it burns rubber.
That doesn't sound good. Overheating? Switch to mac, perhaps ;)

Garvinator
08-08-2007, 01:49 PM
I want to add to Gunner's bio:

Please add: I love pc's.

Denis_Jessop
08-08-2007, 03:43 PM
Why buy a PC when there is a brand new iMac released? http://www.apple.com/main/rss/hotnews/hotnews.rss

(Damn, I bought one less that a year ago but, c'est la vie :doh: )

DJ

Davidflude
08-08-2007, 10:01 PM
why not an Imac or even linux.

Quite simply I want to run software that is not available on Mac alas.

Now if we had chessbase running as a native MAC application and Swissperfect and Shredder and Rybka then i could give windows the boot.

Basil
08-08-2007, 10:19 PM
Now if we had chessbase running as a native MAC application and Swissperfect and Shredder and Rybka then i could give windows the boot.

:clap:

littlesprout85
08-08-2007, 10:43 PM
This project requires a pc for the business end of things, not to mention the gaming side as well as the ocean of memory that is needed for the writing side of sprouts personality. ufta ! This isnt going to be handled with a cell phone.

Sprouty like to answer TCN's question.Sprout has a Windows ME & it hasnt ran correctly - ever - not net worthy- It could be scary -lol :eek:

In response to davidflude, An AMD Athlon is a great pc-yup-yup but need way more free memory than 2 gigs,& wat kinda ram you got- Sprouty is in need of like 128-256 of RAM. Sprouty is thinking along the lines of a AMD running with window XP. its a great pc and can handle the wear & tear.

Also now looking into like a dvd/cd burning drives- this is getting even deeper- Eeky :o
-Sprout :)

Trent Parker
09-08-2007, 06:56 PM
Ok Heres a Q for all of you. I'm thinking of getting a new.... sorry we are getting a new computer.

What should I look for.

I'm thinking 320 HDD space

Not sure of the rest of the attributes though.

Garvinator
09-08-2007, 07:40 PM
Ok Heres a Q for all of you. I'm thinking of getting a new.... sorry we are getting a new computer.

What should I look for.

I'm thinking 320 HDD space

Not sure of the rest of the attributes though.
I believe the first question in return is, what are the main things you are going to be using the computer for? And what do you consider important ie as littlesprout wants a computer that has decent graphics for playing games.

That means ls needs a pc.

Denis_Jessop
09-08-2007, 10:14 PM
why not an Imac or even linux.

Quite simply I want to run software that is not available on Mac alas.

Now if we had chessbase running as a native MAC application and Swissperfect and Shredder and Rybka then i could give windows the boot.

You can either run Boot Camp which is a free beta version at present that runs Windows native on a Mac. It will be incorporated into the new Mac OSX "Leopard" when it is released soon. The beta version runs perfectly. Or you can run an emulator such a Parallels which will run virtual machines on a Mac in either or both Windows and Linux. I have that arrangement (both Boot Camp and Parallels) and both will run ChessBase and all the other Windows chess applications. For some time in the past I ran Swiss Perfect on Virtual PC on my old Mac laptop with no problems. Parallels is heaps better than Virtual PC which is no longer available for the Mac. There are also two or three other emulators available. Then with a Mac you can also run the Mac-only Sigma Chess (with or without the HIARCS 11 engine) which will allow you to store databases of games as well as providing a strong playing program.

DJ

Denis_Jessop
09-08-2007, 10:21 PM
I believe the first question in return is, what are the main things you are going to be using the computer for? And what do you consider important ie as littlesprout wants a computer that has decent graphics for playing games.

That means ls needs a pc.

Not so. The iMac has good enough graphics for games and Boot Camp runs Windows games programs very well. I haven't yet tested Parallels for game playing but the latest version claims to have improved that feature. That program is in constant development. It has just released v3 and I'm told already has a beta version of the next one out. Also the new iMac 24" (the top of the range) has options for HDD to 1TB.

DJ

Desmond
09-08-2007, 10:48 PM
Not so. The iMac has good enough graphics for games If you're referring to the Radeon 2600, I'm sorry to say that they are pretty crappy. We're talking about a $200 card in a machine you're paying $3000+ for. In fact, my card is over a year old and out performs them by some margin.

Aaron Guthrie
09-08-2007, 10:51 PM
And doesn't "good enough for games", if you are talking about new games, mean absolute top of the line, since new games tend to push the limits of the hardware?

Basil
09-08-2007, 11:30 PM
Not so. The iMac has good enough graphics for games.
If you're referring to the Radeon 2600, I'm sorry to say that they are pretty crappy. We're talking about a $200 card in a machine you're paying $3000+ for. In fact, my card is over a year old and out performs them by some margin.
Brian, you have the advantage over me there. I understand you are saying your card is better than a mac's by a country mile. Please just clarify whether you are also saying that mac's graphics cards are not good enough for games.

I'm not sure why you're referring to a $3,000 iMac when there are iMacs at $1,800. I appreciate the card gets better as one goes up the iMac scale, but again are you saying the $1,800 iMac card is not good enough for games?

Denis_Jessop
10-08-2007, 04:05 PM
If you're referring to the Radeon 2600, I'm sorry to say that they are pretty crappy. We're talking about a $200 card in a machine you're paying $3000+ for. In fact, my card is over a year old and out performs them by some margin.

I wasn't referring to the Radeon 2600. My iMac has a NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT. Moreover my machine only cost $3000+ because I bought an extra 1GB of RAM and its the iMac 24".

DJ

Basil
10-08-2007, 05:01 PM
... and its the iMac 24"DJ
ooohhhh ... shiver ... oooohhhh ... tingly ... Denis! :cool:

Desmond
10-08-2007, 07:23 PM
Brian, you have the advantage over me there. I understand you are saying your card is better than a mac's by a country mile.Yes. Have a look at this (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html) comparison. The 7300GT that DJ referred to you will find down close to the bottom. You will notice that at the default settings for the test, which is running a new game at modest setting (1024x 768 is the standard resolution for a 17" LCD monitor - if you have a 19" or better the card will struggle even more) the card is only performing at 18 frames per second. This will make any movement appear shaky - if I remember film technology correctly, 48 fps is needed for a smooth display. Now, I'm not sure how old DJ's computer is, but a quick look at the apple website last night showed me that they are using the Radeon's I referred to above. You will notice that they fare a little better. You will notice that they are nowhere near the top of the scale.


Please just clarify whether you are also saying that mac's graphics cards are not good enough for games.If I was going to spend $3k+ on a computer for the main purpose of playing games, I would walk away with one vastly better than the iMac. Sink $800-1000 into the graphics card, get something like the 8800GTS and you will have something that will be playing the lastest games that will be released for the next 2 years or more at an excellent level. Buy the iMac, and yes, you can play the games available today, but only just and the next generation of games will already push your card past its limits.


I'm not sure why you're referring to a $3,000 iMac when there are iMacs at $1,800. Because DJ mentioned the top of the range machine. Similar comparisons of lower end solutions would most likely reveal the same results.


I appreciate the card gets better as one goes up the iMac scale, but again are you saying the $1,800 iMac card is not good enough for games?Yes and no. If I sink $3k+ into a computer, I don't want to junk it in a year and rinse, repeat.

Denis_Jessop
10-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Boris

I read your first para with some amusement as it shows how misleading some reviews can be. My iMac is about 10 months old. You are right that the new one, released just a few days ago, has the Radeon 2600. I have a 24" screen at a resolution of 1920x1200 and I experience not a trace of the shakiness to which you refer. (it also gives me some stunningly sharp desktop pictures but that's another story.) But I am not running it on any of the games listed in the review and am not likely to except, perhaps, MS Flight Simulator using my Windows capacity.

I assume the tester was using a PC and that may be the problem. :D

DJ

Desmond
10-08-2007, 10:28 PM
Boris

I read your first para with some amusement as it shows how misleading some reviews can be. My iMac is about 10 months old. You are right that the new one, released just a few days ago, has the Radeon 2600. I have a 24" screen at a resolution of 1920x1200 and I experience not a trace of the shakiness to which you refer. That is because the games you are running would be nowhere near as taxing as the latest games on the market. I'm really at a loss as to how you perceive the benchmarks to be misleading. The cards being tested are available on PC as well as Mac, in case you did not realize this. They are testing the cards against each other with the rest of the system remaining unchanged. More info on the tests can be found here (http://tomshardware.com/2007/07/23/vga_charts/) if you're interested. We could of course put Tetris up for benchmarking, and discover that your card gets 110 bazillion frames per second against say the 8800GTX at 120 bazillion, but I personally wouldn't find that data to be as meaningful as measuring the latest games.


(it also gives me some stunningly sharp desktop pictures but that's another story.) Yeah, probably almost as stunning as would be achieved by using a superior graphics card. Actually, I take that back. To view images, it probably wouldn't make any difference. But any difference it did make would naturally be in favour of the better card.


But I am not running it on any of the games listed in the review and am not likely to except, perhaps, MS Flight Simulator using my Windows capacity.If you're not interested in running the latest games or future proofing your system for a year or two, then why you would be interested in the discussion on graphics cards is beyond me.


I assume the tester was using a PC and that may be the problem. :D

DJNot sure how you arrived at that conclusion. Even if you believe that PCs are inferior to Macs for computer gaming purposes, then wouldn't you think the best card available in a Mac would also be the best available for a PC?

Denis_Jessop
11-08-2007, 05:48 PM
The cards being tested are available on PC as well as Mac, in case you did not realize this.


I assume the tester was using a PC and that may be the problem.

The second quote makes the first look pretty silly.


If you're not interested in running the latest games or future proofing your system for a year or two, then why you would be interested in the discussion on graphics cards is beyond me.

Frankly, I don't give a damn but I was provoked by


If you're referring to the Radeon 2600, I'm sorry to say that they are pretty crappy.

BTW I am not a movie photographer but I know that 18 and 24 fps are the normal shooting speeds so your reference to 48fps is way out.

DJ

Basil
11-08-2007, 05:54 PM
Brian, would it have been more accurate and fairer from a neutral's perspective to have said something along the lines of PC cards being better by some margin - and then only more important for serious gamers looking to surf the capacity of the latest technology in gaming?

I think to dismiss the mac cards as crappy is not proven at all.

Aaron Guthrie
11-08-2007, 06:44 PM
The topic is games, not movies.

From wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

"In modern action-oriented games where players must visually track animated objects and react quickly, frame rates of approximately 50 to 60 fps are considered minimally acceptable by some, though this can vary significantly from game to game."

Desmond
11-08-2007, 06:55 PM
The second quote makes the first look pretty silly.This statement makes absolutely no sense to me. This is like saying that an Intel 3.4Ghz chip is faster than a 2.8Ghz chip when being tested in a PC, but then the reverse is true if you test them in Macs. It makes no sense.


BTW I am not a movie photographer but I know that 18 and 24 fps are the normal shooting speeds so your reference to 48fps is way out.

DJMy understanding is that film is shot at 24 frames per second, then the frames as double shuttered to give the illusion of being 48. In any event, your nit picking over my analogy is rather useless, when you consider that using the card on a 19" monitor yeilds some 8 fps under the same test conditions.

BTW, if you think that Toms Hardware test is so biased, feel free to show me one you would rather use.

Aaron Guthrie
11-08-2007, 06:57 PM
My understanding is that film is shot at 24 frames per second, then the frames as double shuttered to give the illusion of being 48.Wouldn't the refresh rate of the screen have the same effect?

Desmond
11-08-2007, 07:06 PM
Brian, would it have been more accurate and fairer from a neutral's perspective to have said something along the lines of PC cards being better by some margin - Please read and understand this point: it is not a Mac card. The same card is available for purchase right this very minute for a PC. The card that is in the iMac (as recommended above for a gaming machine) is crap compared to what is available today. Any perspective or biased that I may (and do) have against Macs has absolutely nothing to do with comparing video cards.


and then only more important for serious gamers looking to surf the capacity of the latest technology in gaming?Yes, this is true. A $200 would be quite serviceable for most computer applications today.


I think to dismiss the mac cards as crappy is not proven at all.You did look at the benchmarks, right?

Basil
11-08-2007, 07:10 PM
You did look at the benchmarks, right?
I did. I saw the mac's card at (second from) bottom.


Yes, this is true. A $200 would be quite serviceable for most computer applications today.
So perhaps your original (unqualified 'crap' comment) was a tad loose?


Please read and understand this point: it is not a Mac card.
Understood from the beginning. You seem a little animated tonight. I'm just chatting.

Aaron Guthrie
11-08-2007, 07:12 PM
You seem a little animated tonight.But I thought you were using a Mac?

Basil
11-08-2007, 07:13 PM
But I thought you were using a Mac?
Huh? Did I miss a funny?

Aaron Guthrie
11-08-2007, 07:15 PM
Huh? Did I miss a funny?The current topic is the ability of Macs to handle animation.

Desmond
11-08-2007, 07:28 PM
I did. I saw the mac's card at (second from) bottom.

So perhaps your original (unqualified 'crap' comment) was a tad loose?I don't think so, not in the context of a graphics card for the purpose of playing computer games. If we were talking about replacing your office's machines, then I certainly would not call it crappy.

Let me put it this way: if I were going to spend $3k+ on a computer for the purpose of playing games, I would expect about a third of that to be towards the graphics card. Let me tell you I would feel royally ripped off to spend that and walk away with a card that doesn't even hold its own with technology from over a year ago.


Understood from the beginning. You seem a little animated tonight. I'm just chatting.ok :) I think perhaps your reference to some lack of fairness and neutral perspective hinted that this was going to turn into another ship-fight.

*group hug*

Basil
11-08-2007, 07:30 PM
*group hug*
Only with you - no-one else get any ideas. I'm a one guy, guy.

Denis_Jessop
11-08-2007, 08:19 PM
This statement makes absolutely no sense to me. This is like saying that an Intel 3.4Ghz chip is faster than a 2.8Ghz chip when being tested in a PC, but then the reverse is true if you test them in Macs. It makes no sense.

My understanding is that film is shot at 24 frames per second, then the frames as double shuttered to give the illusion of being 48. In any event, your nit picking over my analogy is rather useless, when you consider that using the card on a 19" monitor yeilds some 8 fps under the same test conditions.

BTW, if you think that Toms Hardware test is so biased, feel free to show me one you would rather use.

Boris; You are getting unnecessarily het up about this thing. The first issue relates only to whether a PC comes into the test and it's obvious that I knew it did. The second relates to film speeds in relation to which you are utterly up the creek. Moreover, as I said, I don't give a damn as I know through observation that my computer produces perfectly smooth moving images using some quite recent games, some on my Mac element and some on my native PC element. Whatever you say should happen in theory doesn't happen in practice. Finally, at no stage did I say, or imply, that the test to which you referred was biased. I said it was misleading which is quite a different thing.

One thing that forever astounds me about the many of the posters on this board (who should know better) is how they post about things in reply to someone else without accurately reading and understanding what the person is saying. You are but one of those so don't feel persecuted, or at least not beyond a justifiable degree. :hmm:


DJ

Basil
11-08-2007, 08:24 PM
... het up...
$15 HCDs Fantastic! Haven't used that in 5 years. It's back on the rounds.


... I don't give a damn ...
ooooohhhh ... that's the second time you've made me shiver in a week!


... and some on my native PC element ...
I wish you wouldn't say things like that.


Whatever you say should happen in theory doesn't happen in practice.
I like that point A LOT!

Desmond
11-08-2007, 09:08 PM
Boris; You are getting unnecessarily het up about this thing. The first issue relates only to whether a PC comes into the test and it's obvious that I knew it did. Yes, you're spot on - the cards are tested on PCs. Well done. It's in the test parameters. It's irrelvant to the discussion of which card is better. Let me know when you find a benchmark test comparison


The second relates to film speeds in relation to which you are utterly up the creek. wanna bet? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate):

While many film projects are made at higher frame rates (most notably television material, often filmed at 30 or 60 FPS), nearly all commercial films are principally recorded at 24fps to save on film stock, so the shutter in the projection devices is actually arranged to interrupt the light two or three times for every film frame. In this fashion, the common frame rate of 24 fps (frames per second) produces 48 or 72 pulses of light per second on screen, the latter rate being around the flicker fusion rate for most people most of the time.


Moreover, as I said, I don't give a damn as I know through observation that my computer produces perfectly smooth moving images using some quite recent games,Define "quite recent".


some on my Mac element and some on my native PC element. Whatever you say should happen in theory doesn't happen in practice. It has nothing to do with what "I say", but what the evidence of actual benchmarks done in the real world say. It also has nothing to do with theory for the same reason. The simple fact of the matter is that these tests are done in practice.


Finally, at no stage did I say, or imply, that the test to which you referred was biased. I said it was misleading which is quite a different thing.In what way is it misleading?


One thing that forever astounds me about the many of the posters on this board (who should know better) is how they post about things in reply to someone else without accurately reading and understanding what the person is saying. You are but one of those so don't feel persecuted, or at least not beyond a justifiable degree. :hmm:


DJOh plleeeassseee!

littlesprout85
12-08-2007, 02:44 AM
Wow- this is now getting to the point where sprouty is starting to take notes. Gaming is wat sprouty is into, Its noted that Windows is wat sprouty is use too for all around pc use. Windows always has worked very well with gaming,The newest games really do push the limits of video cards these days. Even more important is having enough RAM to channel the graphics properly. :rolleyes:

As for the price range 3 grand is a bit steep for da sprout :eek: - Not a famous artist just yet. Looking to spend around a grand for a new pc without the monitor & extras. Maybe will go a lil higher to 1500 for a dvd/cd burner combo,etc.

This Sprout knows is a tall order , but really would like the most bang for the buck as they say. Right now sprouty has a good monitor(21 inch) & speakers with great keyboard/mouse. all totally meh have like 180 $ into this dinosaur. (including the pc itself) :lol:

-Sprout :)

Garvinator
12-08-2007, 03:31 AM
Hello sprout,

Thought you should be aware that the dollar figures mentioned here are Australian Dollars. So for you take 20 per cent off the prices mentioned to help convert to US Dollars.

So the 3 grand mentioned here is roughly 2400 US

Basil
12-08-2007, 10:54 AM
I want to add to Gunner's bio:

Please add: I love pc's.
Sorry. Strictly truthful bio offerings only :wall:

Trent Parker
12-08-2007, 03:41 PM
Ggray i'd probably use the computer for a mixture of business, internet and maybe a little bit of gaming.

littlesprout85
14-08-2007, 01:05 AM
Right onz !!!

Thank you grray for the conversion rate on the currency dif. didnt know that info and will be of some use to da sprout in the future :D

Yes TCN's - sprouty is going to do the same with ems pc- dabble in a lil bit of everything - especially gaming ;)

-Sprout :)

littlesprout85
09-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Ahhhh, Time to relite the pc hunt here at chesschats. :o)

Sprouty went to da computer store today and got a list of the top brands that meh is looking into.

First off cant afford a mac- so thats outta the question.:wall:

That leave us to focus into a windows pc. Of which it will be an Windows Vista Operating System. Thats the only OS that is being offered by the current stores in meh shopping area. :rolleyes:

This pc that meh is looking into is mainly for office work station. For art and photography, and a bit of gaming on the side. Will be hooking up a digital camera to the pc and it will have wifi wireless connection to the web. :D

The brands that have caught da sprouts eyes are A. Sony B. Toshiba C. Hewett Pakard. Plz give some response Chess Chat Crew for sprouty is on the move to upgrade now before Christmas. If you got another brand just let meh know :o) meh also have seen some Dells. :hmm:

-Sprout85 :)

ElevatorEscapee
09-12-2008, 07:42 PM
My work computer was just upgraded, Dell aren't too bad. :)

Davidflude
09-12-2008, 08:09 PM
The Good guys are now selling Dells. Traditionally they are the cheapest store to buy at. If you live in Victoria look at page 32 of the Age Green Guide for December 4 2009.

You could also work your way through all the computer adds in this issue. It is certainly an attack of the clones.

Give very serious consideration to whether all you need to do is to put in heaps more memory and a a cheap fast graphics card in your old PC. Maybe you buy a bare bones PC and use your existing mouse keyboard and monitor. Unless you are buying a laptop why use wireless broadband. Fixed line broadband is cheaper and faster.

Another thought is to put in a TV tuner card or one of the new TV tuners that fits in a USB slot and add a 24 inch monitor. Then you have an el-cheopo Hi definition digital TV. You can nuse your PC to record. Also you can put the TV in one window and work in another while waiting for your program to start.

littlesprout85
10-12-2008, 05:13 PM
Thanks for all the input here on da sprouts thread everyone.

Appreciate the resent replys from DavidFlude & Elevators.;)

So FAr the Dells are the cheapest and really arent big enough in the HDs or the Ram also most of the Dells here in AZ on the market dont have Dual HDs .

David, meh pc now is a windows 98 with only 1 gb of memory and only- 31 mbs of ram with 1 mb of ram borrowed from meh video card. This Dino of a pc is truly not able to upgrade to anything bigger than Windows ME- which went out about 5 years ago :| This Dino of the sprouts is bullet proof on the web but it has far outlived its capibilities.(Dino is like Cartmans Trapper Keeper) :whistle:

Sprout is looking into a Dual Hard Drive with at least 3 GB.s of Ram. It will have to be Windows Vista OP System due to the fact thats the only system besides a mac on the market here with a warrenty. Also most of the pc's on my list are equipted with at least 250 GB's of memory. Truly WAy-WAY Beyond wat meh dino has :eek:

Again need some opinions on what brands are ppls favorites here at chesschats. Mainly looking at Sony-Toshibas and HP's with dual HDs and at least 3 GB.s of Ram.

-Sprout85 :)

Davidflude
10-12-2008, 05:58 PM
Thanks for all the input here on da sprouts thread everyone.

Appreciate the resent replys from DavidFlude & Elevators.;)

So FAr the Dells are the cheapest and really arent big enough in the HDs or the Ram also most of the Dells here in AZ on the market dont have Dual HDs .

David, meh pc now is a windows 98 with only 1 gb of memory and only- 31 mbs of ram with 1 mb of ram borrowed from meh video card. This Dino of a pc is truly not able to upgrade to anything bigger than Windows ME- which went out about 5 years ago :| This Dino of the sprouts is bullet proof on the web but it has far outlived its capibilities.(Dino is like Cartmans Trapper Keeper) :whistle:

Sprout is looking into a Dual Hard Drive with at least 3 GB.s of Ram. It will have to be Windows Vista OP System due to the fact thats the only system besides a mac on the market here with a warrenty. Also most of the pc's on my list are equipted with at least 250 GB's of memory. Truly WAy-WAY Beyond wat meh dino has :eek:

Again need some opinions on what brands are ppls favorites here at chesschats. Mainly looking at Sony-Toshibas and HP's with dual HDs and at least 3 GB.s of Ram.

-Sprout85 :)

Where is AZ?

I run a clone. However the branded models now are very little dearer.

Put in 4 gigs even though Vista will only handle 3. The next Microsoft operating system will handle 4. Look very carefully at goiing to a 64 bit machine. Just watch out that you can get drivers. You should be able to go back to XP but if you have never used it you might as well go to Vista.

Aaron Guthrie
10-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Where is AZ?Arizona.

Desmond
10-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Vista actually can handle more than 3GB/4GB RAM, if you have the 64-bit version. 64-bit version is probably more trouble than it's worth though, unless you really really really need that much RAM. You most likely do not.

littlesprout85
11-12-2008, 05:39 PM
Aw Nice ,

So meh probably be better in getting a pc with the intel duo chipset then with a Intel Wifi link then.

Most of the pcs meh is seeing have either the AMD duo 64 or the intel duo. These pc's have at least 250 - 320 GB's of HD along with at least 3-4 GB's of ram.

Also the AMD's have an athro's WiFi adopter, Where as the intel chipset pcs have a intel wifi link for wireless.

-Sprout85 :)

littlesprout85
15-12-2008, 06:12 AM
Right-Right- seems that the 1337 lounge is very quite these days - Where Are All The IT Junkys at :eek:

Is it better to get a Desktop Pc or a Laptop these days. Havent looked into Desktop Pc yet. Mainly just at the Laptops cause the they are so powerful compared to meh dino.(win 98 with 31 mb of ram):eh:

Will a Desktop PC be even more powerful than a Laptop PC. Or maybe The Desktops will be cheaper than a Laptop & more powerful. What are your experiences in these matters- Sprouts mind would like to enquire :o)

-Sprout85 :)

Desmond
15-12-2008, 08:55 AM
Sprouty, I used to be a big AMD fan. The fact is though, that in the current available tech Intel is all over them. Has been for almost 2 years. Core 2 Duo is probably the best performance bang for your buck today.

Wi Fi is a bit old now, look for minimum 802.11g (good) or 802.11n (better).

Desktops are powerful than laptops for the same money. If portability is important to you, but a laptop. If not, buy a desktop.

PS buy a scanner so we can see some of your art work. :)

littlesprout85
15-12-2008, 03:43 PM
Ahhh, now we talking. Would like to thank Boris & Davidflude for their reply.

The intel core 2 duo is a bit more than the AMD duo 64. about 220 $ dollars more.

Would like to ask Boris about wat ems ment by 'wifi is a bit old, look for min 802.11 g. or 802.11n.' Are you talking about the link- or ? meh a bit confused there.:eh:

Also does any ChessChat IT Junkys here know wats the difference between an wireless wifi link & a wireless network adoptor?:hmm:

One more thang - sprout would like to ask DavidFludes wat ems ment by a 64 machine ?

Thanks again davidflude & Boris for sharing that info with da sprout. Will be getting a laptop now do to wanting the portable factor.:clap:
:o)

-Sprout85 :)

Desmond
15-12-2008, 03:57 PM
Wi fi refers to IEEE standard 802.11b. This was superceded by 802.11g, which transfers data about 4 times faster. 802.11n is now replacing that, which is another 5 times faster again. They are usually backwards compatible. You might sometimes see an adapter listed as 802.11abg compatible, meaning it is g with backwards compatiblity to a and b.

Space_Dude
15-12-2008, 05:54 PM
Right-Right- seems that the 1337 lounge is very quite these days - Where Are All The IT Junkys at :eek:

Is it better to get a Desktop Pc or a Laptop these days. Havent looked into Desktop Pc yet. Mainly just at the Laptops cause the they are so powerful compared to meh dino.(win 98 with 31 mb of ram):eh:

Will a Desktop PC be even more powerful than a Laptop PC. Or maybe The Desktops will be cheaper than a Laptop & more powerful. What are your experiences in these matters- Sprouts mind would like to enquire :o)

-Sprout85 :)
Go for the laptops cause they are more beneficial and you can get more out of it then the PC. It is portable and there isnt any wires and crap. Its like the best thing since sliced cheese!

littlesprout85
16-12-2008, 02:19 AM
Excellent replys here,

Sprout is going to look into some dell laptops today before deciding on what to buy.Thanks for the insight elevators & Davidfludes.;)

Will Have to be vista-cause there isnt any others. Not going to the hassle of changing out the pc setup for a XP. That will cost more & null-n-void the warranty.

Right on for the Crew for weighting inz. Laptops are in order and will not get an AMD with more than 3 gigs or ram. Intels are better with 4 gigs but more in cost. Sprout likes sliced cheese. :lol:

Thanks Boris for that info on wifi def. Will look for 802.11g or n on the adoptor or link. faster sounds better. Will not get a scanner thou. Thinking digital camera. The looks will be better. Better to post up the artwork/photography on my friends art sites & famous gallery websites. Hopefully soon Sprout will have ems own fully interactive /e-comerce art website. :clap:

Thanks Alot Axioms for pushing sprout into diching meh dino instead of upgrading da beast.Friggin dino was holding the sprout back from getting the adventure started. Gotz to start with the right techno.:doh:

First the right pc. 2nd the camera. Finally the Art out to the World :D

-Sprout85 :)

Ian Murray
16-12-2008, 07:37 AM
AMD is playing catch-up:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=294&tag=nl.e550

littlesprout85
20-12-2008, 09:01 PM
Dells werent too shabby. Going to keep the brand on the list with Sony-Toshiba- HP's.

Dells & toshiba's are the cheapest with sony coming inz on the top of the pyle.:eek:

Also now looking into a Digital camera. Anyone got any hints on this touchy subject. maybe in need of some photoshop software :|


-Sprout85 :)

arosar
22-12-2008, 09:27 AM
Also now looking into a Digital camera. Anyone got any hints on this touchy subject. maybe in need of some photoshop software :|

State specifics. What exactly will you be using the camera for? Budget?

AR

littlesprout85
28-12-2008, 08:46 PM
aw nice -

Santa came thru for sprouty :P Just got meh new laptop. Now da sprout is wondering which is better - mozilla or windows internet explorer ?

-Sprout85 :)

Desmond
29-12-2008, 08:37 PM
spillz da beansz sprouty, what did you get?

Adamski
29-12-2008, 10:22 PM
Mozilla Firefox is much better than IE. Much more reliable.

littlesprout85
30-12-2008, 09:34 PM
Sprout would like to Thank everyone for their advice, It has really sprouty out alot. :)

Thanks Adamski's for that tip on mozilla instead of IE, meh heard it was better than IE. :cool:

Would Really like to thank Boris for all the advice on the wireless info as well as the tips on how much RAM is needed to run Vista properly without hassles. :whistle:

Sprout would also like to give a Big Thanks for Ian Murrays tips on what brands of pcs to look for.(AMD is playing catch-up) :whistle:

Thanks to Santa, da sprout has finally got a new laptop -YAY !!! It is a sony with a dual core HD. It has 320 Gb.d of memory & 4 Gb.s of RAM. Let see, it has all the new wireless techno on it -a-b-g-n. As well as one heck of a video graphics card in it. This beast is way heavy, weight is over 7 lbs. :0

Next stop for sprout is a digital camera,scanner and one of those usb mouses for easy use. With these extras da sprout will finally be able to get meh photography & art DL to the web for everyone at chesschats to see.:clap:

-Sprout85 :)

Adamski
01-01-2009, 01:12 AM
Thanks to Santa, da sprout has finally got a new laptop -YAY !!! It is a sony with a dual core HD. It has 320 Gb.d of memory & 4 Gb.s of RAM. Let see, it has all the new wireless techno on it -a-b-g-n. As well as one heck of a video graphics card in it. This beast is way heavy, weight is over 7 lbs. :0
Sounds like a great laptop, sprouty, though it may be more of what we used to call a "lugable" rather than a laptop. Well done. Now you can enjoy the Hawaiian beaches!
And soon it will be "happy new year" to you too!

ER
01-01-2009, 10:04 AM
I don't like laptops, it's just like trying to play piano on a phone keyboard! I mean ok with major and minor, but try augmented chords! :P
CAGLES

ER
01-01-2009, 10:09 AM
By the way my gf bought an acer deskie (Aspire M169) for some ridiculus $ on special. It kicks backside! I "borrowed" it with the pretext of converting some audio/video ancient stuff, because I didn't want to use my Mac on that rubbish, and I kept it home HEHE! I even like vista with it!
CAGLES

littlesprout85
15-01-2009, 11:15 AM
Right onz,

U be right there about da weight and size of meh new laptop adamski's. Learning all about it now being so far away from AZ. Right now meh here in Hawaii.:cool:
Sprout is finding out that traveling lighter is not only faster,but easier on the doggys :|

But this new pc has all the bells & gadgets meh will need to really say free & to create 24/7 from any beach or desert. Its alot lighter than meh ancient dino desktop.Sprout be moving in the right direction now outta da stone age.:owned:

-Sprout85 :)

AzureBlue
23-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Mozilla Firefox is much better than IE. Much more reliable.
Yep agreed. :)
I recently got a Windows XP, 2.5GB Ram, 320GB Hard Drive PC.. it's pretty good :)
And I normally use firefox, though I do also have IE.

littlesprout85
28-01-2009, 09:00 PM
Excellent,

Finally made it back to arizona. Now da sprout has time to learn more on wat this luggable can really do.:eek:

Now Since all the feedback here was great, Lets turn our attention to sprouts next projects.

A) A new usb mouse to go with the luggable-lol

B) A new portible usb printer to stay truly free from the Dino(sprouts old pc)

C) A new scanner, the more portable da better, maybe meh can get a portible usb scanner/printer :0

D) A new digital Camera, which meh is looking into middle of the price range, not to high,not to cheap,just right -Ahhhhhh

-Sprout85 :)

littlesprout85
18-02-2009, 09:24 PM
Ermmmm,

Meh looking for a mid range price digital camera Arosars just to show like pics of art pieces and also like some photography etc.

Doesnt have to be the best, just like for to show the products.yup yup-

Sprout just saw a advertisement of a chip that fits into the camera that add in auto upload to the web, anysite lik facebook etc. might be totally worth the $ for something hassle free .Talk to meh ppl :|

-Sprout85 :)

littlesprout85
06-08-2009, 06:46 PM
Wow, Thats Again To Axioms For giving sprouty the drive to finish the goal at hand.(getting outta the stone age) Also like to thank everyone at chesschats who contributed to sprouts thread.:clap:

Sprouty was looking back into meh lil thread here and found that meh is still missing a bit on the Tech To Do List.:doh:

Meh have the a)mouse c)new scanner/printer/not portible d)digital camera/low res/very cheap/easy upload

that leaves only (b) portible usb printer to go with laptop) to deal with.

Any suggestions on a cheap printer (B/W copys) that would be small enought to take on sproutys adventures would help out alot. Looking at a printer that is cheap on the ink cart. replacements. :eh:

Thanks Again Everyone for the Advice. It truly has inspired da sprout to go for it.:clap:

-Sprout85 =)