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View Full Version : Should Martin Bryant be allowed to kill himself



Oepty
28-03-2007, 06:29 PM
It appears that Martin Bryant has tried to kill himslef twice in the last couple of days and he is apparently now of suicide watch. The thought occured to me, why not just let him kill himself? I am not sure I would agree with it happening, but what are your thoughts
Scott

Axiom
28-03-2007, 06:45 PM
http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/bryant.html

http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/bryant2.html

Aaron Guthrie
28-03-2007, 06:46 PM
The society doesn't allow criminals in general to kill themselves. The society tries to give people equal treatment. Thus they don't let Martin Bryant to kill himself.

Unless you mean why don't we let criminals kill themselves.

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2007, 06:51 PM
I think he should be kept alive until he dies of natural causes (or nearest prison equivalent) simply because if he is allowed to kill himself then conspiracy theorists will insist that he was murdered.

Another reason is that one of the ideas of our justice system is that punishments should be reversible if someone is found to have been wrongly convicted. But if an innocent person's already killed themselves (and they might conceivably do so just because prison is so unpleasant and boring) then they can't be brought back. So prisoners should be protected from suicide just in case they are innocent. Even Martin Bryant.

Axiom
28-03-2007, 06:57 PM
I think he should be kept alive until he dies of natural causes (or nearest prison equivalent) simply because if he is allowed to kill himself then conspiracy theorists will insist that he was murdered.

Another reason is that one of the ideas of our justice system is that punishments should be reversible if someone is found to have been wrongly convicted. But if an innocent person's already killed themselves (and they might conceivably do so just because prison is so unpleasant and boring) then they can't be brought back. So prisoners should be protected from suicide just in case they are innocent. Even Martin Bryant.
KB- Are you familiar with joe vialls take on the P.A.M ?
The inconsistencies, re....gun skills,hit rate,eyewitness accounts,the 'beirut triple", the psychologist (ex-tavistock) whose care he was under , etc.
Its a most curious study.

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2007, 07:03 PM
http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/bryant.html

Aaaargh, not Joe Vialls again! I read a lot of that stuff several years ago when I singled him out for a mention in a column I wrote at the time. I remember reading through his proposed reconstruction of events and finding half-hour holes all over the place, just blatantly wrong assumptions.

The whole line that Bryant could not possibly have been that good a shot is unprovable. Bryant was a Tattersalls heir and loaded. There is no reason he could not have obtained expert-level shooting training on one of his many trips overseas with his resources. And yes he has a very low IQ but it has also been found that his IQ varies between different tasks - he's not universally retarded.

Axiom
28-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Aaaargh, not Joe Vialls again! I read a lot of that stuff several years ago when I singled him out for a mention in a column I wrote at the time. I remember reading through his proposed reconstruction of events and finding half-hour holes all over the place, just blatantly wrong assumptions.

The whole line that Bryant could not possibly have been that good a shot is unprovable. Bryant was a Tattersalls heir and loaded. There is no reason he could not have obtained expert-level shooting training on one of his many trips overseas with his resources. And yes he has a very low IQ but it has also been found that his IQ varies between different tasks - he's not universally retarded.
I too read all vialls stuff years ago too, but later read some reasonable discrediting material as well. Thankyou for your view KB, nothing you said there, i disagree with.........i would love to have a long chat with mr. vialls though!.........isnt or wasnt there an ex police officer from Tas ,writing a book on bryant?(not sure)

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2007, 07:49 PM
i would love to have a long chat with mr. vialls though!

You'll have to do it via seance; he's no longer with us. Died 2005.


........isnt or wasnt there an ex police officer from Tas ,writing a book on bryant?(not sure)

Not sure about this either.

arosar
28-03-2007, 08:13 PM
Sometimes it's really tempting to say let's have the death penalty, you know. Like that car crash in Sydney yesterday. This learner driver just killed a pedestrian.

I'm thinking, what a waste of life! A life for a life!

But, of course, it's not a good idea.

AR

Axiom
28-03-2007, 09:14 PM
You'll have to do it via seance; he's no longer with us. Died 2005.
omg!! , he died "suddenly and unexpectently" too! ....been busy catching up on a stream of info i wrote off years ago,....but im not so willing to completely write-off mr vialls......i admire his questioning of the 'unquestionable' in many issues ........the following prima facie facts are astounding http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/01/02/how_mass_media_may_shape.htm

Kevin Bonham
28-03-2007, 11:06 PM
omg!! , he died "suddenly and unexpectently" too!

Yes, but he had been unwell. I have heard of plenty of similar cases - that someone who has been very sick appears to be getting better and then they are suddenly gone.

Axiom
28-03-2007, 11:14 PM
Yes, but he had been unwell. I have heard of plenty of similar cases - that someone who has been very sick appears to be getting better and then they are suddenly gone.
irrefutably true.

Southpaw Jim
28-03-2007, 11:36 PM
Bryant is evidently mentally ill, and should accordingly be afforded the best mental health care that the State can provide. Obviously this extends to preventing self-harm. IIRC being a prisoner doesn't remove your basic human rights, including medical treatment.

I'd be surprised if anyone suggested that any other person suffering mental disease should be allowed to kill themselves.

Axiom
29-03-2007, 12:03 AM
Bryant is evidently mentally ill, and should accordingly be afforded the best mental health care that the State can provide. Obviously this extends to preventing self-harm. IIRC being a prisoner doesn't remove your basic human rights, including medical treatment.

I'd be surprised if anyone suggested that any other person suffering mental disease should be allowed to kill themselves.
agreed, but should he not be mentally ill, who owns his body,he himself or the state?

which brings to mind the rationale behind making suicide illegal.

Garvinator
29-03-2007, 12:22 AM
Axiom,

The theory goes something like this.

A person that attempts self harm (suicide being the extreme example) is not of sound mind because life is regarded as the most sacred thing of all.

Therefore, if a person is not of sound mind, they are incapable of making rational decisions on their own behalf.

So continuing on, a person who attempts to commit suicide is not of sound mind and cannot make rational decisions about their own welfare. Hence suitably qualified people are put in charge of that persons welfare until they deemed of sound mind again.

That is the theory. Of course it is debatable ie that a person who wants to commit suicide is not of rational thought.

Kevin Bonham
29-03-2007, 03:24 AM
which brings to mind the rationale behind making suicide illegal.

Is it? I thought those laws had been abolished.