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Arrogant-One
22-12-2006, 11:32 AM
White to move and win in all 3 games below.

3kr3/1p2b2p/1q2b2Q/p2p1B2/P2P4/8/nP1B1PPP/2R3K1 w - - 0 1
White to move and win!

8/4r2p/2R3p1/k3Np2/n4P2/6P1/4P3/4K3 w - - 0 1
And:

4rrk1/p1p1npp1/1p6/n2pP1Bp/3P1N1P/P1P2R2/2P3P1/5RK1 w - - 0 1

Once again, these chess puzzles were brought to you by AO, chess puzzles for the exquisite and distinguished gentleman! :clap:

Garrett
22-12-2006, 12:45 PM
Thanks AO !

I enjoyed looking at these positions so it means I must be exquisite and distinguished !

Merry Christmas to you too !

Kevin Bonham
22-12-2006, 08:00 PM
#3 is cooked as there are two more or less winning moves, one of which is trivially obvious and the other of which is a fairly simple combination. I would probably play the trivially obvious one.

#1 is very obvious but it is somewhat useful to analyse why other wins are not as crushing.

#2 is pretty simple too but the reason why the obvious refutation attempt doesn't work is quite instructive.

Arrogant-One
23-12-2006, 05:02 PM
#3 is cooked as there are two more or less winning moves, one of which is trivially obvious and the other of which is a fairly simple combination. I would probably play the trivially obvious one.

#1 is very obvious but it is somewhat useful to analyse why other wins are not as crushing.

#2 is pretty simple too but the reason why the obvious refutation attempt doesn't work is quite instructive.
Granted as far as #3 goes, its a position from a game played by a new Canadian GM.

Number #2 is trickier than first blush because if Black plays Rook takes Knight there could be complications.

And Number #1 is a Pal Benko game. Perhaps I should raise the bar a bit higher. :P


I enjoyed looking at these positions so it means I must be exquisite and distinguished!
There was never any doubt George.

ElevatorEscapee
23-12-2006, 06:13 PM
Hi AO, I think I managed to solve all three of them, however would need to see your solutions to see if I had managed that achievement. ;)

I would like to suggest that you keep up the good work, and ignore criticisms from certain levels. I find much of interest in the positions you provide (and potential material for helping out the juniors visiting our club).

Thank you,

~EE

Kevin Bonham
23-12-2006, 06:23 PM
Number #2 is trickier than first blush because if Black plays Rook takes Knight there could be complications.

That was the reason for my comments. Rook takes Knight is the obvious refutation attempt I referred to.

ElevatorEscapee
23-12-2006, 07:42 PM
he he he, it looks like, for once, we are all in agreement then!

AO: Would you like to post your solutions? Or would you prefer to wait a couple of weeks so others may take a shot?

Cheers,

~EE :D

Arrogant-One
24-12-2006, 01:03 PM
he he he, it looks like, for once, we are all in agreement then!

AO: Would you like to post your solutions? Or would you prefer to wait a couple of weeks so others may take a shot?

Cheers,

~EE :D
Hello EE

I will post the solutions now.

Solution to Problem #1 is Bxa5! With the Black Queen off the 6th rank, there is no way checkmate can be averted after Qxe6.

Solution to Problem #2 is Rxg6! Now to the amateur this looks like a simple winning tactic, but things can get tricky if the Black Rook then takes the White Knight. However, after Rxg6 Rxe5 fxe5 hxg6 there is no way for Black to stop the e pawn from promoting.

Solution to #3 is BxN RxN Ng6 forking the two Rooks. Black cannot capture the Knight because his f8 rook is no longer immune from capture by White's doubled rooks on the F file.

More problems to come in time EE. :)

Until then, have a Merry Christmas - you too Kevin.

Kevin Bonham
24-12-2006, 02:45 PM
Solution to #3 is BxN RxN Ng6 forking the two Rooks. Black cannot capture the Knight because his f8 rook is no longer immune from capture by White's doubled rooks on the F file.

This wins the exchange, which is fine, but it's a closed position after that and White could find the position very challenging to win. A matter of taste (or skill level) but I would play Nxh5 winning a pawn with continuing attack instead.

Arrogant-One
26-12-2006, 12:23 PM
This wins the exchange, which is fine, but it's a closed position after that and White could find the position very challenging to win. A matter of taste (or skill level) but I would play Nxh5 winning a pawn with continuing attack instead.
I think this requires more explanation Kevin.

You seem to be saying you'd prefer to win a pawn (worth one point) instead of an exchange (worth two points). While material isn't always indicative of the strength of one's postion, in this case I think the move winning the most material is far superior - which may be why GM Mark Bluvshtein played it.

Your move winning the pawn is also good of course, but the puzzles called for the best winning move.

antichrist
26-12-2006, 12:27 PM
Yeah, back to kinders KB, you are way out of your league, by the way in my game without that bishop I thought HD would lose his rook to take my new queen giving me piece up in endgame, so still good chances, only I did not want to play after that kind of "mistake". And to make it on topic in this thread I am sure AO's superior mind will back me up. Back me AO against that Duggan guy.

Arrogant-One
26-12-2006, 12:45 PM
Yeah, back to kinders KB, you are way out of your league, by the way in my game without that bishop I thought HD would lose his rook to take my new queen giving me piece up in endgame, so still good chances, only I did not want to play after that kind of "mistake". And to make it on topic in this thread I am sure AO's superior mind will back me up. Back me AO against that Duggan guy.
AC, You always have my full support! :)

Kevin Bonham
26-12-2006, 03:27 PM
You seem to be saying you'd prefer to win a pawn (worth one point) instead of an exchange (worth two points).

The view that the exchange is worth two points is highly suspect and has been under increasing attack in the last 50 years or so. People already know this to a degree because they score knight=3, rook=5, but say that bishops are better than knights, from which it follows that rook for bishop (the material exchanged in this case) is typically less than two pawns.

In my view the exchange is actually only worth about a pawn and a half on average. If a strong attack may be considered to be worth, say, half a pawn, then winning a pawn and retaining a strong attack is about as good as winning the exchange.

The old Q=9, R=5, N=B=3 standard is oversimplified in many aspects. To give another example, two rooks (10 points) is supposed to be better than a queen (9 points) but one statistical study has shown that in queen + n pawns vs two rooks + n pawns endgames, the queen scores slightly better than the two rooks.

Furthermore, your puzzles did not call for the best winning move, but said "White to play and win". In studies, this means that there is only one win, and if a second win is found then that "cooks" the study, rendering it in need of repair. In this case it is not possible to prove that either move wins, but rather there are two strong moves which are both likely to lead to a win with best play.

Some example lines:

1.Nxh5 Nc4 2.Bxe7 Rxe7 3.Rg3 g6 4.Nf6+ Kg7 5.h5 and black cannot avoid losing a second pawn with a clearly lost endgame.

1.Nxh5 Ng6 2.Bf6!? gxf6 3.Nxf6+ Kh8 4.Rf5 Ne7 and white will soon have rook and three passed pawns (two of them on the fifth rank) for two badly co-ordinated knights plus threats on black's king, overwhelmingly likely to be won.

I don't think the position after winning the exchange is quite as easy to win. The board is not easily opened and White has weak pawns which could be hassled by Black's knight. So a GM played this line, so what. For all we know he may have been short of time.


Yeah, back to kinders KB, you are way out of your league, by the way in my game without that bishop I thought HD would lose his rook to take my new queen giving me piece up in endgame, so still good chances, only I did not want to play after that kind of "mistake". And to make it on topic in this thread I am sure AO's superior mind will back me up. Back me AO against that Duggan guy.

Complete nonsense, it would have been easy to stop you from getting anywhere near a new queen and in fact you would have been the one who would need to play accurately to avoid losing.

Rhubarb
26-12-2006, 03:39 PM
KB, I agree with everything you say regarding the material imbalances, but since all lines are fairly easily winning it's not a critical example. Just a couple of things:

a) If you're not going to take the exchange, there's always 1.Bxe7 Rxe7 2.Nxd5. After ...Rd7 3.Nf4 you win the h-pawn as well anyway.

b) Winning the exchange with 2.Ng6 shouldn't present any technical difficulties at all with the half-open f-file.

Kevin Bonham
26-12-2006, 03:57 PM
a) If you're not going to take the exchange, there's always 1.Bxe7 Rxe7 2.Nxd5. After ...Rd7 3.Nf4 you win the h-pawn as well anyway.

Yes, that's another strong option, and may even be the strongest of all. Black has 3...Nc4 threatening the a-pawn but 4.Rg3! appears to ensure that White will go two pawns up.

Arrogant-One
27-12-2006, 10:56 AM
Yes, that's another strong option, and may even be the strongest of all. Black has 3...Nc4 threatening the a-pawn but 4.Rg3! appears to ensure that White will go two pawns up.
I wish I could give the full history of the game now that it has been the subject of so much dicussion, but unfortunately I cannot find it. The game is Bluvshtein vs Yaqoov Vaingorten, Toronto, 2000 - if anyone wants to see if they can find it. Or, if anyone wants to discuss the game with Bluvshtein I might be able to track down his email address.

Okay, time for 3 new AO chess puzzles, puzzles for the distinguished gentleman. These one's may prove more challenging for players like Bonham and George Lester.

White to move and win.

3r1bk1/p5qp/3P1R2/2p3pQ/3p4/P2B3P/5PP1/6K1 w - - 0 1

And:

4q1k1/1b1rrp1p/p3n1p1/2p1P3/3P4/P1N5/B4QPP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 1

And:

3rr3/pppnnpk1/2bp2p1/2q3Pp/4PN2/P1N4P/1PPQ1PB1/3RR1K1 w - - 0 1

WhiteElephant
27-12-2006, 12:12 PM
Thanks for these puzzles AO. As usual, your presence livens up this (sometimes) dull as batsh*t BB.


a) If you're not going to take the exchange, there's always 1.Bxe7 Rxe7 2.Nxd5. After ...Rd7 3.Nf4 you win the h-pawn as well anyway.


I was thinking along the same lines as shirty in the Bluvshtein game, I would rather win the d5 pawn that the h-pawn, but then of course the h-pawn can be won as well.

The 3 new puzzles are a little more difficult, I think I've got a handle on the first 2 after a cursory inspection, but can only find good moves in the 3rd, nothing which is concretely winning. Will have to keep looking.

If you don't mind, AO, I might show these to a few juniors, see what they make of them.

Arrogant-One
27-12-2006, 12:35 PM
Thanks for these puzzles AO. As usual, your presence livens up this (sometimes) dull as batsh*t BB.
Thanks. :)


The 3 new puzzles are a little more difficult, I think I've got a handle on the first 2 after a cursory inspection, but can only find good moves in the 3rd, nothing which is concretely winning. Will have to keep looking.
Number 3 is an absolute beauty.

I'll give you a hint, the position comes from a game played by French GM Bacrot and the move results in the forced win of a piece.

Kevin Bonham
27-12-2006, 03:46 PM
I wish I could give the full history of the game now that it has been the subject of so much dicussion, but unfortunately I cannot find it. The game is Bluvshtein vs Yaqoov Vaingorten, Toronto, 2000 - if anyone wants to see if they can find it. Or, if anyone wants to discuss the game with Bluvshtein I might be able to track down his email address.

[Event "Toronto-A"]
[Site "Toronto"]
[Date "2000.??.??"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Bluvshtein,Mark"]
[Black "Vaingorten,Yaaqov"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "C16"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 Ne7 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 b6 7.Qg4 Ng6 8.h4 h5
9.Qg3 Ba6 10.Bxa6 Nxa6 11.Ne2 Nb8 12.f4 Qd7 13.0-0 Nc6 14.f5 exf5 15.Qg5 Qe7 16.Rxf5 Qxg5
17.Bxg5 Nge7 18.Rf3 0-0 19.Raf1 Rae8 20.Nf4 Na5 21.Bxe7 Rxe7 22.Ng6 Rfe8 23.Nxe7+ Rxe7 24.Rg3 Kh7
25.Rg5 g6 26.Rf6 Nc4 27.e6 fxe6 28.Rgxg6 Nxa3 29.Rxe6 Rxe6 30.Rxe6 Nb5 31.Rc6 a5 32.c4 dxc4
33.Rxc4 Kg6 34.d5 Kf5 35.Rc6 a4 36.c4 Nd6 37.Rxc7 a3 38.c5 bxc5 39.Rxc5 Ke5 40.g4 hxg4
41.h5 Kf5 42.Ra5 Kg5 43.Rxa3 Kxh5 44.Ra6 Nf7 45.Rf6 Nd8 46.d6 Kg5 47.Rf8 Ne6 48.d7
1-0

He does make the win the exchange up look particularly easy with his R-g3-g5 maneuver forcing a hole on f6. So yes, as Shirty said, there are a range of easy wins.

First of the new three was extremely easy. I'll look at the other two a bit later.

Kevin Bonham
27-12-2006, 05:43 PM
I don't know how you managed to find this game. Do you have the latest edition of Fritz?

No, I don't. I did a search on the chessbase website (click on chess database to bring up java viewer) and found it easily, simply by looking for all games with Bluvshtein as white.