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MichaelBaron
26-11-2006, 04:34 PM
Lets lobby crown Casino to introduce chess as one of the games available there. I have sent an email to Crown Management suggesting introduction of chess at Casion rooms. I recieved a reply from the Customer Relations manager. According to the manager, the casino is constantly reviewing its list of games availabe and keeps adding new games on the ongoing basis so chess is certainly one of the games to be considered.

So Lets Lobby Crown to include chess!

Kerry Stead
27-11-2006, 08:21 AM
Lets lobby crown Casino to introduce chess as one of the games available there. I have sent an email to Crown Management suggesting introduction of chess at Casion rooms. I recieved a reply from the Customer Relations manager. According to the manager, the casino is constantly reviewing its list of games availabe and keeps adding new games on the ongoing basis so chess is certainly one of the games to be considered.

So Lets Lobby Crown to include chess!
And how do you propose the game to work??
Do you plan to equip players with a 10 page booklet of the rules, or do you envisage some kind of variation on chess as a casino game?
Games generally need to be able to be explained in 30 seconds or less, otherwise punters will simply walk off ...

ER
27-11-2006, 09:18 AM
And how do you propose the game to work??
Do you plan to equip players with a 10 page booklet of the rules, or do you envisage some kind of variation on chess as a casino game?
Games generally need to be able to be explained in 30 seconds or less, otherwise punters will simply walk off ...

Michael's idea is brilliant!
Most people understand Chess and will be happy to watch masters' blitz games or simultaneous exhibitions. It is popular in Europe and it had great impact in the US.
I think that if well promoted and organised, it can be a very successful venture. I would love to have Guy's opinion on that matter. I think he is by far the best exponent of Chess in regards to promoting the game and I believe that people like him and Michael can use this avenue to give Chess another dimension!
Cheers and good luck!

Kerry Stead
27-11-2006, 10:31 AM
Michael's idea is brilliant!
Most people understand Chess and will be happy to watch masters' blitz games or simultaneous exhibitions. It is popular in Europe and it had great impact in the US.
I think that if well promoted and organised, it can be a very successful venture. I would love to have Guy's opinion on that matter. I think he is by far the best exponent of Chess in regards to promoting the game and I believe that people like him and Michael can use this avenue to give Chess another dimension!
Cheers and good luck!
So people just watch others play??
Trust me, it would last about a week or two in a casino ...

Desmond
27-11-2006, 10:39 AM
So people just watch others play??
Trust me, it would last about a week or two in a casino ...I agree that watching masters play is not such a great prospect, but the simul idea could work.

Kerry Stead
27-11-2006, 11:34 AM
I agree that watching masters play is not such a great prospect, but the simul idea could work.
No it wouldn't, because it relies on an element of 'skill' from the house - ie: the person giving the simul.
The casino wants games of chance, or skill games where it can take a percentage of the winnings (eg: Poker).
How would it not be open to collusion/cheating??

Gattaca
27-11-2006, 12:56 PM
The only format I can envisage being sustainable for a casino (as opposed to just an occasional display) would be a format like poker where the casino takes "time" from the players in return for providing the venue and supervision.

Whether you would need much supervision depends on whether you were offering chess as a gambling game or just for fun.

If it was for fun you have to ask why people would pay hourly rake when they could play free at other venues like chess clubs. Maybe it might catch people who didn't know about chess clubs, but it seems optimistic.

If it was for stakes then you would need to have sufficient interest from players to make it worth it for Crown to train a couple of staff members in supervising blitz games. (They'd need to learn all the rules and all about digital clocks and know a bit about the game itself.)

I'm not sure you'd get enough people wanting to play chess for money in that environment when they could play Blitz for money at other venues and not pay rake. I could be wrong though, as poker players do exactly that because they know the game will be fair and they know they can always get a game. Cheating is not generally a problem in chess though, whereas in poker games with strangers it is more of a danger. It's also not that difficult to find someone to play blitz for money with, whereas poker games take more organisation.

The remote possibility of trying to turn chess into some kind of new gambling game where you play against the casino and there is a house edge seems fraught with difficulties to me. If you create such a beast it wouldn't be much like the chess we know and love, any more than poker machines are anything like real poker.

The only thing I can think of that might work is if they set up screen interfaces like they do for video poker where the punter played against the house computer on a screen. The player would hardly ever win if the casino used a strong program like Fritz, so they'd have to give some kind of odds like X amount per game, draw pays 10-1, win pays 20-1. Alternatively they could use a program that adjusts it's strength in some kind of clever way, but then they would be susceptible to players interchanging, or sandbagging techniques.

Overall I think it's a very tricky problem and I'd recommend thinking it through very carefully before pitching the idea to a casino. Anything half baked won't fly.

Look at what has happened with moneygaming.com. Hardly anyone ever plays chess for money there because the owners didn't think it through properly first. They didn't even consider computer assistance, the most basic problem to overcome, because you get 30 seconds for every move, easily enough to use a program if you wanted to cheat. No honest player is ever going to play for stakes over a couple of dollars under those conditions. I played a game for $3, won my opponent's $3 stake and paid 60c commission! 20% rake is completely untenable.

Anyway, good luck with the idea, but I'm a bit skeptical of this particular avenue unless someone comes up with a really clever packaging idea. It's not like Crown casino is desperate for traffic or short of a quid.

Desmond
27-11-2006, 01:29 PM
The remote possibility of trying to turn chess into some kind of new gambling game where you play against the casino and there is a house edge seems fraught with difficulties to me. If you create such a beast it wouldn't be much like the chess we know and love, any more than poker machines are anything like real poker.One possibility that comes to mind is that you have a limited number of moves (say 20) to obtain a material advantage against the "dealer", with different payment depending on the level of advantage.

Brian_Jones
27-11-2006, 03:40 PM
Last Friday night we had blitz at Parramatta RSL.

The stake was $1 per game and the house took 100%.:)

Johny Bolens played Greg Canfell and Matt Sweeney played Ivan Zirdum.

Everybody was happy to lose.

Even Johny paid his $20 table fee! :)

Trent Parker
14-12-2006, 04:11 PM
Well........

I sorta had an idea for a state champs...... which would need some sponsorship. And Possibly make for a TV series. (something like a Joker Poker show except having a "game of the week"). Anyhow i'm wasting time at an internet cafe at the moment. I will post more about my idea when i am at my computer next......

MichaelBaron
16-12-2006, 10:59 PM
Well........

I sorta had an idea for a state champs...... which would need some sponsorship. And Possibly make for a TV series. (something like a Joker Poker show except having a "game of the week"). Anyhow i'm wasting time at an internet cafe at the moment. I will post more about my idea when i am at my computer next......


Chess TV series, sounds great!

antichrist
17-12-2006, 09:18 AM
Chess TV series, sounds great!

from what I have seen so far the games complexity does not come across very well, reminds me of ping pong where the complexity of the serves also does not come across, whereas in cricket they have experts and camera upon camera and diagrams

Intuition
28-08-2007, 04:46 PM
Chess and casinos simply dont mix......:rolleyes:

Wade
27-09-2007, 10:20 PM
Intuition is right
Chess wouldnt work in casino's.. as sad as that is :(
before a game is allowed onto a casino floor it needs to be approved by the government. Which in itself is hard enough
Then staff would need to be trained on how to handle disputes, and have a total knowledge of the game. They wouldnt be able to just bring in a local arbiter because to work in the casino and have authority you need to apply for a special lisence.

Now onto the game itself, if ran the only way I could see it happening would be if the casino set up a massive tournament, and have 50 people playing, all putting in a $100 entry fee. First place getting 2500, second place getting 1500, 3rd place getting 500. and the casino keeping the last 500..

Plus, chess is a slow game, casinos make money from hard fast pumping games.
Though, now i think about it more.. it would be fantastic to stand there and have 2 people play a lightning game of chess, 1 min each, and pass the money to the winning player lol

edit: also a game that relies completely on skill (remember poker is x% skill, x% luck) could attract the bad element of hustlers, which casino's aim to avoid

eclectic
27-09-2007, 10:36 PM
i see it happening

you're playing a game of chess at the casino

you're thinking deeply

you have a plan

all of a sudden two hefty guards grab you

you get turfed out

"what for?" you ask

"you're a ply counter"

:rolleyes:

Axiom
27-09-2007, 10:48 PM
Why wouldnt casinos see an opportunity to use chess as a credibility booster?

Imagine the punters filing in past a giant window where the "Crown Casino Chess Open" is being played, with the subliminal message being conveyed to them of ah this is not just a seedy shady gambling cess pit,they actually run the fine noble game of chess here, so i need not feel so guilty about what im doing as they march towards their financial doom.

Ian Rout
28-09-2007, 09:49 AM
Finding a format for casino-style gambing on chess is an issue, but I think the more basic problem with chess players in casinos is that casinos have dress standards.

eclectic
28-09-2007, 10:38 AM
Finding a format for casino-style gambing on chess is an issue, but I think the more basic problem with chess players in casinos is that casinos have dress standards.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Axiom
28-09-2007, 11:53 AM
Finding a format for casino-style gambing on chess is an issue, but I think the more basic problem with chess players in casinos is that casinos have dress standards.
not a problem at all.
simply stipulate a dress code as part of entry conditions.

Wade
01-10-2007, 12:28 AM
actually i could very well see it being possible for a casino to host a tournament
it would be in a function roomthough
not on the gaming floor
and none of the punters would even realise you guys were up there playing :)

Axiom
01-10-2007, 12:35 AM
actually i could very well see it being possible for a casino to host a tournament
it would be in a function roomthough
not on the gaming floor
and none of the punters would even realise you guys were up there playing :)
any other brilliant ideas ? :hmm: :confused: :eek: :doh: :wall:

Wade
01-10-2007, 10:24 AM
chess on the pokies?

Axiom
01-10-2007, 01:32 PM
chess on the pokies?
yes !!
8 x 8 reels, if you end up with a chess position including checkmate you win the jackpot !
if mate in 1,the 2nd prize
if mate in 2 the 3rd prize, and so on ! :lol:

Intuition
02-10-2007, 11:55 AM
yes !!
8 x 8 reels, if you end up with a chess position including checkmate you win the jackpot !
if mate in 1,the 2nd prize
if mate in 2 the 3rd prize, and so on ! :lol:

lol...most people who play pokies find 5 7's hard enough to understand :)

TheJoker
08-10-2007, 04:06 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting to see chess at Casino near you ;)

As has been pointed out previously, you could not play against the house. Even if the house used a GM there is no way to calculate a house edge, which would be required for government approval.

The only option is for players to play against each other with the house taking a cut as in poker. The rules of chess are simple enough for staff to learn. Also computers could be used to record the moves and act as an arbiter and as the clock.

However alot of problems still exist to be successful you would need more than just an Ante bet round. Not sure how you could implement this (perhaps betting rounds after each 5 moves)? This could make an interesting game. Might even be worth having a go at home;)

Also how do you deal with draws etc?

And the biggest problem of all how do you get enough players to make it financially viable.

If you really want to prove that it is viable you need to set-up some tournaments with the proposed rules and conditions (without breaching the Unlawful Gambling Act(NSW)) and generate massive popular interest!

Good Luck!

MichaelBaron
08-11-2007, 06:59 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting to see chess at Casino near you ;)

As has been pointed out previously, you could not play against the house. Even if the house used a GM there is no way to calculate a house edge, which would be required for government approval.

The only option is for players to play against each other with the house taking a cut as in poker. The rules of chess are simple enough for staff to learn. Also computers could be used to record the moves and act as an arbiter and as the clock.

However alot of problems still exist to be successful you would need more than just an Ante bet round. Not sure how you could implement this (perhaps betting rounds after each 5 moves)? This could make an interesting game. Might even be worth having a go at home;)

Also how do you deal with draws etc?

And the biggest problem of all how do you get enough players to make it financially viable.

If you really want to prove that it is viable you need to set-up some tournaments with the proposed rules and conditions (without breaching the Unlawful Gambling Act(NSW)) and generate massive popular interest!

Good Luck!

Chess could be handled in exactly the same way that poker is handled. Players play each other and make a bet....winner takes all - commission for the casino

Axiom
08-11-2007, 08:55 PM
Chess could be handled in exactly the same way that poker is handled. Players play each other and make a bet....winner takes all - commission for the casino
POST #26 + POST #16 = WINNER !

Desmond
08-11-2007, 08:58 PM
Chess could be handled in exactly the same way that poker is handled. Players play each other and make a bet....winner takes all - commission for the casinoAnd why are players going to go to the casino when they can go to clubs or cafes and not pay such a commission?

Axiom
08-11-2007, 09:13 PM
And why are players going to go to the casino when they can go to clubs or cafes and not pay such a commission?
Investment,.....The casino might like the positive effects, and kick in some sponsorship !

Desmond
08-11-2007, 09:18 PM
Investment,.....The casino might like the positive effects, and kick in some sponsorship !
So chessplayers are going to fork over money here and now because the casino might decide to sponsor chess events later? Have you met Aussie chessplayers before? :hmm: :lol:

Axiom
08-11-2007, 09:36 PM
So chessplayers are going to fork over money here and now because the casino might decide to sponsor chess events later? Have you met Aussie chessplayers before? :hmm: :lol:
OK, fair point.
how about this............exciting atmosphere, crowds peering in through windows,the chance to get big money into chess, and women in short satin dresses giving you the come hither look just after you've triumphantly outplayed your opponent in a rook and pawn endgame.

Taigastyle
15-11-2007, 08:09 PM
Its not really a gamble.

And its no good playing chess after a few drinks.

TheJoker
22-11-2007, 11:06 AM
Chess could be handled in exactly the same way that poker is handled. Players play each other and make a bet....winner takes all - commission for the casino

You still need to introduce betting rounds (i.e. after 5 moves, 10 moves etc). If you have a single upfront bet winner takes all it won't generate enough turnover to make the commissions viable. Unless you think people are willing to play blitz games at minimum $100 per game.

For Example:

- Casino Commission 5%
- Number of boards 10 (anymore would take up a lot of floor space)
- Blitz games (5min)
- Minimum bet $10 each player.
- Games per hour 100 (1 min for set-up) with full occupancy.
- Total Turonver (100 x $20) $2,000
- Casino commission per hour $100 (not going to cover the overheads):doh:

Poker works because you have betting rounds occur frequently and betting increases every round, this coupled with the fact that usually more than two players bet each round generates alot of turnover.

The only reason to have chess would be for novelty value and attract customers (so they might gamble on other games). Personally I think two-up is much better for this purpose particualry in Australia.

Kaitlin
01-01-2008, 11:45 AM
Wat about that movie "The colour of Money" about 8 ball pool. Only two people get to play pool at a time (mostly) and unless your playing its just as boring as watching chess.. actually watching a good chess game is much more exciting then watching 2 good people play pool.

Anywho in the movie everyone wants to go and paly in the big tourny at the casino but it cost heaps to enter so they have to win money to pay to enter.

And then casue it cost so much to enter the prizes are big. People think (and it might be) they can win a big poker tourny cause there is luck involved.. but in pool there isnt so its like chess.

I was going to say maybe chess is more like boxing but decided against it. Maybe chess needs a "Chess Promotional Pub tour" .. start with nicer pubs.. with two chess gladiator go and paly an match... but have three spare boards, people will watch.. and in the crowd the might be a few who know how to play and they might play on the spare baords .. and a guy and a girl need to be there, the guy to help girls who dont know how to play and the girl to help guys. Dont make it too techincal and no prizes.. casue its all about fun.. and a logo like "use it or lose it". I cracked up big time when i saw the logo on those pink sails in the Sydney to Hobart boat race... still make me laugh thinking about them. :naughty: naughty but ture.

littlesprout85
08-01-2008, 06:13 PM
Hmmmm,

Sprouty has heard something along the lines of having chess introduced into the casinos. Dont really know where meh heard this but I really caught sproutys attention. :hmm:

Really wouldnt know how it would run or the likes. One on one sounds good for side action within the tourney prize :$ Might add up to some pretty good Chinga -yup-yup.;)

Lets also consider this chess as a new venue next to the slots & the blackjack table areas in vegas. Never mind the sucess it would have as new revenue for online gambling :0 The repercussion are far reaching to say the least. -IMFAO

-Sprout :)