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Garvinator
05-04-2004, 05:26 PM
opponent white - G. Gray black Time control: 60 minutes + 10 sec per move from the start.

1. e4 c5 2. c3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. dxc5 dxc5 5. Qxd8 Kxd8 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. Bg5 Ng4 8. h3 Nge5 9. Bb5 Bd7 10. Nd2 a6 11. Ba4 Nd3 12. Ke2 Nxb2 13. Bb3 f6 14. Bh4 Na5 15. Rb1 Na4 16. Bxa4 Bxa4 17. f3 Bb5 18. Ke3 Kc7 19. Nb3 Nc4 20. Kf2 g5 21. Bg3 e5 22. h4 Bd6 23. hxg5 fxg5 24. Nh3 h6 25. Ng1 h5 26. Ne2 h4 27. Bh2 a5 28. Nd2 Kc6 29. a4 Nxd2 30. Rxb5 g4 31. Rd1 g3 32. Ke3 Nxe4 33. Kxe4 gxh2 34. Rh1 h3 35. Rxh2 hxg2 36. Rxg2 Rh4 37. Rg4 Rh2 38. Kd3 Rf8 39. Ng1 b6 40. c4 Ra2 41. Kc3 Rxa4 42. Kb3 Rb4 43. Rxb4 axb4 44. Rg6 Rd8 45. Nh3 b5

game was eventually drawn due to my extreme time pressue and a mistake by me.

any thoughts on improvements?

Alan Shore
05-04-2004, 10:00 PM
game was eventually drawn due to my extreme time pressue and a mistake by me.


Now now, it doesn't pay to tell untruths Mr Gray.. you lost this game in a drawn position from a massive blunder :p

Garvinator
05-04-2004, 10:12 PM
Now now, it doesn't pay to tell untruths Mr Gray.. you lost this game in a drawn position from a massive blunder :p
in a otb tourney the game would have been declared drawn by an arbiter as has been previously discussed on this bb. fics doesnt apply 10.2 or other rules regarding draws like that. I spat the dummy after that.

Alan Shore
05-04-2004, 10:18 PM
OK, some points about the game:

3.. Nf6 I don't like, after the Q exchange you can't castle (not so much of a problem with the queens off but I still think there are better moves).

43.. axb4, I think 43.. cxb4!? looks better, giving you 2 passed pawns.

47.. Kd7 was obviously a shocker, but you had the right idea trying to remove the pin..

And of course 63.. Rf5, well, they're the moves we all want to forget about. I won't bother including the rest of the game on here :)

Otherwise your moves were not too bad, tactically sound. You had a good space advantage too at one point.

Garvinator
05-04-2004, 10:22 PM
OK, some points about the game:

3.. Nf6 I don't like, after the Q exchange you can't castle (not so much of a problem with the queens off but I still think there are better moves).

43.. axb4, I think 43.. cxb4!? looks better, giving you 2 passed pawns.

47.. Kd7 was obviously a shocker, but you had the right idea trying to remove the pin..

And of course 63.. Rf5, well, they're the moves we all want to forget about. I won't bother including the rest of the game on here :)

Otherwise your moves were not too bad, tactically sound. You had a good space advantage too at one point.

i did notice that 32.... Nc4+ wins easier than Nxe4.

Alan Shore
05-04-2004, 10:33 PM
i did notice that 32.... Nc4+ wins easier than Nxe4.

Ah yes.. I didn't look hard enough at that, I thought the knight gets captured anyway after Nc4 Kd3 Na3 but maybe it gets away, as if Rb3?? c4+! with the Brian Jones tactic! So instead of Rb3, Rb2, axb7.. theh white perhaps plays c4 to try to trap the knight but you always have Nxc4.

Garvinator
05-04-2004, 11:03 PM
Nc4 Kd3 Na3 but maybe it gets away,
after these three moves, if you chase the knight, then i can take the bishop and threaten to queen the pawn, so dont you have to play Bxg3??

Alan Shore
05-04-2004, 11:10 PM
after these three moves, if you chase the knight, then i can take the bishop and threaten to queen the pawn, so dont you have to play Bxg3??

No, because if Bxg3, Nxb5 and the rook is gone. The rook on d1 defends the back rank sufficiently so you can't queen yet, nor threaten to any time soon. White eventually plays Rh1 and munches your a7 pawn.

Garvinator
05-04-2004, 11:32 PM
No, because if Bxg3, Nxb5 and the rook is gone. The rook on d1 defends the back rank sufficiently so you can't queen yet, nor threaten to any time soon. White eventually plays Rh1 and munches your a7 pawn.
dont you mean h2 pawn :eek:

Alan Shore
05-04-2004, 11:44 PM
dont you mean h2 pawn :eek:

lol, yeah, h2 pawn! If you get on fics now I'll show you a possible continuation.

Kevin Bonham
06-04-2004, 12:19 AM
in a otb tourney the game would have been declared drawn by an arbiter as has been previously discussed on this bb.

What was the final position?

And in any case, you're incorrect, if you're talking rule 10.2 draws. A 10.2 draw cannot be claimed in a game where time is added on every move. You need to wait for triple rep, the 50 move rule, dead position or draw by agreement.

Bruce was joking about moves 47 and 63, wasn't he? On my screen it only goes to 45.

3...Nf6 is fine, indeed normal. 4...dxc5 is the dodgy move. After 4.dxc5 you don't take back you play 4...Nc6! Then if 5.cxd6 Nxe4 and Black recovers the pawn and is fine - White doesn't exactly want to take on e7 after that, does he now? :hmm:


No, because if Bxg3, Nxb5 and the rook is gone. The rook on d1 defends the back rank sufficiently so you can't queen yet, nor threaten to any time soon. White eventually plays Rh1 and munches your a7 pawn.

Makes little difference. If 35.Rh1 Be7! clears the line to the White king and then all attempts to trap the Black knight (except Rb3 refuted as above) fail miserably because after a BR checks on the d file the knight escapes (or if White plays c4 and chases the knight then the rook invades on d3 and White gets nowhere. If say 35.c4 rightaway just ...h3 eg 36.gxh3 Rxh3 is crushing - way too many threats. There's no doubt in my mind that Black is a clear piece up and it can't be recovered, 32...Nc4+ is game over with accurate play.

Alan Shore
06-04-2004, 03:44 AM
Kevin, the game continued:

46. Ng5 (0:32.300) bxc4+ (0:28.450)
47. Kxc4 (0:04.510) Kd7 (0:21.140)
48. Nf7 (0:19.390) Rb8 (1:00.200)
49. Nxd6 (0:42.350) b3 (0:36.140)
50. Ne4 (0:02.850) b2 (0:06.870)
51. Nd2 (1:02.290) b1=Q (0:19.280)
52. Nxb1 (0:02.360) Rxb1 (0:02.420)
53. Kxc5 (0:14.660) Re1 (0:30.760)
54. Kd5 (0:16.810) Re3 (0:28.340)
55. Rg7+ (0:57.720) Ke8 (0:09.010)
56. Ke6 (0:04.060) Rxf3 (0:17.740)
57. Kxe5 (0:25.220) Re3+ (0:09.450)
58. Kd4 (1:01.460) Re7 (0:11.810)
59. Rg8+ (0:12.530) Kd7 (0:04.180)
60. Kd5 (0:02.140) Re8 (0:12.030)
61. Rg2 (0:23.570) Rf8 (0:21.360)
62. Rg7+ (0:08.570) Ke8 (0:02.690)
63. Ra7 (0:15.490) Rf5+ (0:09.450)
64. Ke6 (0:03.020)
{Black resigns} 1-0

Garvinator
06-04-2004, 10:34 AM
What was the final position?

And in any case, you're incorrect, if you're talking rule 10.2 draws. A 10.2 draw cannot be claimed in a game where time is added on every move. You need to wait for triple rep, the 50 move rule, dead position or draw by agreement.


kevin, you have mentioned the disrepute rule as well on here before, mentioning R and K v R and K position. Couldnt that apply near the end position too?

Garvinator
06-04-2004, 04:31 PM
Makes little difference. If 35.Rh1 Be7! clears the line to the White king and then all attempts to trap the Black knight (except Rb3 refuted as above) fail miserably because after a BR checks on the d file the knight escapes (or if White plays c4 and chases the knight then the rook invades on d3 and White gets nowhere. If say 35.c4 rightaway just ...h3 eg 36.gxh3 Rxh3 is crushing - way too many threats. There's no doubt in my mind that Black is a clear piece up and it can't be recovered, 32...Nc4+ is game over with accurate play.
i have been trying to follow the lines mentioned here but they seem to go back and forth a bit, can either bruce or kevin construct the full line starting with 32.. Nc4+

Kevin Bonham
06-04-2004, 07:42 PM
kevin, you have mentioned the disrepute rule as well on here before, mentioning R and K v R and K position. Couldnt that apply near the end position too?

I would take the strength of the players into account. For strong players it is certainly disrepute to play on with KR vs KR in my view, I would step in and call the game drawn if either player complained, irrespective of clock. As you've seen, players rated below say 1600 can and do lose these through natural mistakes like 63...Rf5+, especially when short of time and with poor king position. At weak junior level (sub-500) one player will often lose their rook, though 90% of the time the opponent won't be able to mate anyway.

Kevin Bonham
06-04-2004, 07:52 PM
i have been trying to follow the lines mentioned here but they seem to go back and forth a bit, can either bruce or kevin construct the full line starting with 32.. Nc4+

32...Nc4+ 33.Kd3 Na3 34.Rb2 (34.Rb3 c4+ 0-1) gxh2 35.Rh1 (35.c4 h3 36.g4 Raf8 and White can't hold k-side without letting the knight out) Be7 36.c4 (36.Ra2 Rhd8+ 37.Ke3 N escapes) Rhd8+ 37.Kc3 Rd7 38.Kb3 Rd3+ 39.Nc3 Ra6 and White can't take the knight without losing his own. This is just a sample, there are zillions of ways to win this.