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Davidflude
30-10-2006, 09:27 PM
read the following report.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/213/42/What_is_the_Economics_of_Climate_Change.pdf

If this does not scare you nothing will.

qpawn
30-10-2006, 09:58 PM
Jesus . Things have got worse. The Club of Rome, a group of intellectuals including Bob Hawke, once predicted in the 80s that if nothing was done about the environmant then the human race would die out by 2050 due to wars over resources etc.

Seems we have only 15 years now. The speech that was given in 1992 by the Governor general of Victoria was accurate; he said at my senior sch0ool validation that "we must learn to learn to live simply so that others can simply live".

Of course don't rely upon rodent to do anything.

Desmond
31-10-2006, 08:50 AM
The Club of Rome, a group of intellectuals including Bob Hawke, once predicted in the 80s that if nothing was done about the environmant then the human race would die out by 2050 due to wars over resources etc.Wars over resources have been waged by the US for some time now. They are just a little bit subtle.

qpawn
31-10-2006, 12:43 PM
I wouldn't argue with that.

The Texan must have his oil. The American God of home heating must be satisfied; it is an angry God that attacks the seats of congressmen with the oil doesn't arrive on time.

qpawn
31-10-2006, 07:20 PM
What a pathetic performance by John Howard in paliamnet today. The best response that he could conjure up about refusing to sign the Kyoto protocol was that India and China didn't sign up so why should we bother?

If you were to follow that argumant to its logical conclusion:

- human rights treaties often have countries who don't sign up. Therefore we should never have signed these treaties. To hell with human rights.

- nuclear non proliferation treaty still doesn't include India amongst others. To hell with this issue; let every mongrel dog of a country have oits nukes.

- Anzus treaty. Hell. How is a group of five countries going to defend each other. How pathetic. It should never have been signed.

- United Nations. It would never have gone beyond its prototype of The League of Nations. Not everyone signed up to that. To hell with the whole mechanism of the security council that, for all its US bias, at least gives some hope of peaceful outcomes in disputes. Yeah. Let's go back to how things used to be. If you liked your neighbour's land you just sent some tanks over and grabbed it.


John Winston Howard is the dumbest politician who has somehow managed to gain [primeministership of this country. His argument against signing the Kyoto protocol is the dumbest thing I have ever heard come out of any politician's mouth. And considering the fierce competeition for that title from Messrs Tuckey, Abbott and Downer that is really saying something. :mad:

Kevin Bonham
31-10-2006, 08:38 PM
Interesting how global warming concern has just become extremely trendy in the last three months or so, like it's the new African famine or something. How long til there's a Climate Aid festival for rock music hasbeens to get all self-important about an issue they do not understand in public?

qpawn
31-10-2006, 08:59 PM
If Elvis is gonna return from the dead man, then it is gonna happen at the climate chnage festival . I just have this feeling..you know it's freaking me out. Elvis has been kept in a secret dungeon by the CIA for the last 20 years. He has been force fed a diet of mind-altering hamburgers. A CIA traitor, disgusted with Bush, has obtained Elvis's genes and made a clone to unleash upon the world.

It's ELVIS! THE KING!

What's the first thing he would say?
"Hunka hunka burgers just don't taste the wya they used to".

:lol:

Elvis just told me to get my facts right: "20 years man, nowa y can you do taht to the king".

ElevatorEscapee
03-11-2006, 05:09 PM
Interesting how global warming concern has just become extremely trendy in the last three months or so, like it's the new African famine or something. How long til there's a Climate Aid festival for rock music hasbeens to get all self-important about an issue they do not understand in public?

Sadly though BonHomie, no amount of money will assuage this particualr problem. :doh:

Kevin Bonham
05-11-2006, 09:14 PM
no amount of money will assuage this particualr problem. :doh:

I don't agree. Costs will be very significant and may become more so depending on the pace (or lack) of action, but projections of econo-environmental doomery have typically been exaggerated in the past and I am confident they will be this time too ... unless the current hyping results in a backlash in which people soon grow tired of the issue and start to dismiss it altogether.

Taigastyle
06-11-2006, 02:30 PM
very very scary, a whole 29 pages

ElevatorEscapee
06-11-2006, 05:00 PM
I don't agree. Costs will be very significant and may become more so depending on the pace (or lack) of action, but projections of econo-environmental doomery have typically been exaggerated in the past and I am confident they will be this time too ... unless the current hyping results in a backlash in which people soon grow tired of the issue and start to dismiss it altogether.

I beg to differ... for instance, the Australian economy seems, at the moment, to be booming! Yet people like myself live in an area where it looks very much like we will run out of drinking water in the middle of next year.

My argument was that no matter how much money is spent, the water won't return of its own accord due to increased rainfall. No amount of money can seriously hope to influence rainfall, so it doesn't matter if we have successive budget surplusses if we can't get the water to the areas that really need it! And if we can't get the water to the areas that need it, then we are in a seriously deep hole both environmentally and economically.

Just my thoughts. :confused:

Kevin Bonham
06-11-2006, 09:03 PM
An example of the sceptical replies to the Stern report (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=JZQYCYYRJZPOHQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQ UIV0?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwarm05.xml)

Naturally I don't endorse replies like this or the original report; have not studied the issue in enough detail to comment. But anyone who is convinced that the Stern report is likely to be accurate should know enough to be able to explain why sceptical replies like the one above are wrong. Anyone?

ElevatorEscapee
06-11-2006, 10:26 PM
I don't understand, what exactly are you saying Mr Bonham... is it based on the concept of "My State's Got Water so everything must be ok in the rest of the world?" :hmm:

Ironically, the 'crackpot' theories thesedays seem to be less and less those about Global Warming and more and more related to those who deny Global Warming in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.

Are you saying that you deny global warming Kevin? :eek:

Would you like to visit Lake Epallock and magically fill it with your denial? If you can, then you are more than welcome to try... I am sure the local farmers would hug and kiss you for your efforts!

If you can't, then exactly what are you trying to argue? That everyone is imagining things? :whistle:

Basil
06-11-2006, 10:34 PM
I don't understand, what exactly are you saying Mr Bonham... is it based on the concept of "My State's Got Water so everything must be ok in the rest of the world?"
Now c'mon EE, fair's fair. Kevin didn't say (or imply) anything of the sort. However, he did say:
- that he doesn't endorse the comments, and
- he doesn't have sufficient info to comment.

Howie make you feel better. Go and have a look at my rating! :)

Go and have a lie down (not with me) NTTAWWT :) Tennis anyone? Pineapple?

ElevatorEscapee
06-11-2006, 10:38 PM
Howard, to be fair, why should I be fair on KB, he has most certainly not been fair on me in the past! ;) (Quite the contrary in fact!)

Furthermore, I can't be bothered reading any links that rugger posts, so I automatically assumed he was referring to my reply as the 'one above'... and if you read it as that you will see where I am coming from. So blah! :P

Kevin Bonham
06-11-2006, 10:38 PM
I don't understand, what exactly are you saying

Well that would hardly be a first.


is it based on the concept of "My State's Got Water so everything must be ok in the rest of the world?" :hmm:

No, you're just reading things into what I'm saying.


Are you saying that you deny global warming Kevin? :eek:

If you even think I might be (even at 0.01% probability), given my second post to this thread, then please make an appointment to have your lobotomy reversed. Why would anyone who was denying the issue write "Costs will be very significant and may become more so depending on the pace (or lack) of action" ? :hmm:


Would you like to visit Lake Epallock and magically fill it with your denial?

If anyone thinks I should be polite in response to this rubbish given what I have already said on the thread then they also need to have their lobotomy reversed. (And besides, that's Dr Bonham to you. :lol: )


If you can't, then exactly what are you trying to argue? That everyone is imagining things? :whistle:

Explaining simple things to some here is such hard work I ought to invoice you for it.

I am saying:

1. There is a long history of doomy environmentalist forecasts being proven wrong or overstated.

2. While I neither doubt that global warming exists nor that humans are a significant and probably the major cause of it, I strongly suspect that many of the current forecasts will also fall in category 1.

3. There is a tendency for people to now associate virtually any climatic irregularity with global warming irrespective of whether global warming is actually the entire, a major, a minor, or not, a cause of the irregularity.

4. Much of the hot air in public is being put about by people who have not examined the evidence strongly enough to know who is right and who is wrong.

Basil
06-11-2006, 10:41 PM
Much of the hot air in public...
YELLOW CARD - BONHAM
Outrageous punning in the middle of a serious contretemps! :)


Howard, to be fair, why should I be fair on KB, he has most certainly not been fair on me in the past! ;) (Quite the contrary in fact!)
Oh oh ... Mr Beazley. Where was that then? I haven't seen it - but then the good Dr can be most insidious.

Kevin Bonham
06-11-2006, 10:47 PM
Howard, to be fair, why should I be fair on KB, he has most certainly not been fair on me in the past! ;) (Quite the contrary in fact!)

You poor sook. Point me to the posts you are still wibbling about months later and I will eloquently defend my supposed unfair behaviour. :P


Furthermore, I can't be bothered reading any links that rugger posts, so I automatically assumed he was referring to my reply as the 'one above'... and if you read it as that you will see where I am coming from. So blah!

Well, that was a silly assumption and shows you need to pay more attention if you expect to get stuck into me without me getting impatient with your impish act. Clearly by sceptical replies I was referring to people sceptical of the Stern Report, because if I used "sceptical" to apply to your comments I would be saying that supporters of the Stern Report would disagree with you. That would be silly, since they are on your "side".

Kevin Bonham
06-11-2006, 10:48 PM
YELLOW CARD - BONHAM
Outrageous punning in the middle of a serious contretemps! :)

Guilty as charged and didn't even realise it. Sheesh!

Vlad
06-11-2006, 11:05 PM
Are you saying that you deny global warming Kevin? :eek:


Nothing has been proved by scientists so far. It is not clear whether changes to the climate are due to carbon dioxide emissions or have nothing to do with human activity. In fact, that was a reply by Russian Scientists (including a few Nobel Prize Winners in Physics) to the Russian Government. Bloody Putin did not listen to the Russian Scientists.:)

I have personally had conversations with leading American Economists advocating the idea of fighting against global warming. They did admit that what I am saying is true. At this moment there is no proof.

Desmond
07-11-2006, 07:30 AM
Nothing has been proved by scientists so far. It is not clear whether changes to the climate are due to carbon dioxide emissions or have nothing to do with human activity.A good point. The Earth has done an excellent job of warming up and cooling down all by itself through its history. This country has been drying out for tens of thousands of years, but let's all blame the automobile. :rolleyes:

Bereaved
07-11-2006, 11:23 AM
Nothing has been proved by scientists so far. It is not clear whether changes to the climate are due to carbon dioxide emissions or have nothing to do with human activity. In fact, that was a reply by Russian Scientists (including a few Nobel Prize Winners in Physics) to the Russian Government. Bloody Putin did not listen to the Russian Scientists.:)

I have personally had conversations with leading American Economists advocating the idea of fighting against global warming. They did admit that what I am saying is true. At this moment there is no proof.

I am sorry, Vlad but this part of your post


I have personally had conversations with leading American Economists advocating the idea of fighting against global warming.

made me laugh, as it seems that for America the War on Terror was not enough, and the range of the conflict must be extended.

Probably just my warped humour...

Take care and God Bless, Macavity

PS on a serious note, the issue concerns me more of late; my nephew is about to turn two.....

Kevin Bonham
07-11-2006, 07:38 PM
PS on a serious note, the issue concerns me more of late; my nephew is about to turn two.....

An understandable concern, children can be quite demanding at that age. :eek:

(Sorry).

I heard on the radio that Australia has been declared to be in a once-in-1000 year drought. Things like that don't happen out of the blue because of the small amount of climate change that has occurred so far. It is possible that climate change is making a drought that would have been very significant anyway still worse than otherwise, but we don't know. It's similar to the people who were furious about Hurricane Katrina and reacted as if it had been whipped up out of nowhere by global warming and N'Orleans was in no way a flood-prone place to hang out, when "exacerbated to some degree" is, on balance, far more likely.

Garvinator
07-11-2006, 08:56 PM
An understandable concern, children can be quite demanding at that age. :eek:

(Sorry).

I heard on the radio that Australia has been declared to be in a once-in-1000 year drought. Things like that don't happen out of the blue because of the small amount of climate change that has occurred so far. It is possible that climate change is making a drought that would have been very significant anyway still worse than otherwise, but we don't know. It's similar to the people who were furious about Hurricane Katrina and reacted as if it had been whipped up out of nowhere by global warming and N'Orleans was in no way a flood-prone place to hang out, when "exacerbated to some degree" is, on balance, far more likely.
I agree with alot of this.


My opinion- I do think climate change is occurring due to heavy human influence.

That being said, I dont really care if it is climate change or not.
Humans do need to treat the planet we live on alot better than we currently do and treat it with a lot more respect. This means we need to improve our practices in many areas, especially when there are cleaner and better ways to improve the health of the planet.

Southpaw Jim
07-11-2006, 09:24 PM
^^^

I was going to say myself - whether or not it is actually happening, is there any good reason not to seek to reduce our greenhouse emissions, conserve diminishing resources, and generally reduce our impact on the planet as a whole?

Desmond
07-11-2006, 09:31 PM
^^^

I was going to say myself - whether or not it is actually happening, is there any good reason not to seek to reduce our greenhouse emissions, conserve diminishing resources,A fair point. However, thinking about such things does give one pause pause before jumping on the hippy bandwagon. After all, it smells.


and generally reduce our impact on the planet as a whole?Oh plllease.

Southpaw Jim
07-11-2006, 09:44 PM
A fair point. However, thinking about such things does give one pause pause before jumping on the hippy bandwagon. After all, it smells.

Oh plllease.

We can all love one another and live in peace and harmony with the flowers and the squirrels.

Seriously.

Desmond
08-11-2006, 07:52 AM
We can all love one another and live in peace and harmony with the flowers and the squirrels.

Seriously.Not if someone else controls the supply of flowers and squirrels.