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antichrist
26-10-2006, 03:31 PM
Isn't this guy a champ, saying that females exposing flesh is akin to meat put out for scavengers. God love him.

WhiteElephant
26-10-2006, 03:35 PM
AC:

Do you:

a) agree with him
b) disagree with him but are trying to annoy people
c) disagree with him and are being sarcastic

a & b are not very nice.

antichrist
26-10-2006, 03:43 PM
AC:

Do you:

a) agree with him - of course

b) disagree with him but are trying to annoy people - I was subjected to a bit of that thinking when a youngster so I know where is coming from but now an adult I know where I am going to and it certainly ain't dressed from head to toe

c) disagree with him and are being sarcastic - whether he is right or wrong I will always back a stirrer

a & b are not very nice. but the flesh is...

WhiteElephant
26-10-2006, 03:45 PM
but the flesh is...

AC, you crack me up...

:lol:

eclectic
26-10-2006, 03:45 PM
But it's quite OK for ugly old sheiks to expose their rancid looking flesh isn't it? :hand:

antichrist
26-10-2006, 03:52 PM
But it's quite OK for ugly old sheiks to expose their rancid looking flesh isn't it? :hand:

But I know some white chicks who love the darker-skinned Arabs, like a half-way point without going the full monty with a Negro. The girl's animal instinct really gets turned on, and do the Lebo men lairise(?) who have it! They think they are God's gift to white women.

MichaelBaron
27-10-2006, 01:00 AM
The Sheik is an Idiot with no respect for Women. Unfortunately his position is reflective of the attitues of a large segment of the middle-eastern society. Correct me if I am wrong but in some of the Gulf states- Women are not able to cast their votes at state and local elections.

Hopefully, the attitues are going to change over the time. I got a chess-friend (i play with him alot online at a chess server, incidently -he played for Qatar at the 2002 chess ollympiad) and he is as disgusted by these comments as I am. So ya...lets hope for some positive changes.

Garvinator
27-10-2006, 01:11 AM
In Pakistan, a woman cannot lay any charges of rape unless she is able to produce four male witnesses.

Rincewind
27-10-2006, 08:10 AM
The point is that everyone should respect other people's right to choose how they dress. Even if people dress inappropriately for the society in which they find themselves, the consequences of that should not include becoming a victim to crimes of violence. Anyone who rapes anyone, anywhere is a criminal and deserves to be treated as such and their actions cannot be excused, even in part, by the way the victim was dressed.

Al Hilaly's comments are disgraceful and just underlines how out of touch he is with the real world. It also shows he has an inherent disrespect for women which should compromises his credibility as a spiritual leader. I believe the reason for his apology was not due to any heartfelt remorse but other people more worried about the PR of Islam in the west bringing political pressure to bear. He should still resign.

WhiteElephant
27-10-2006, 08:34 AM
The point is that everyone should respect other people's right to choose how they dress. Even if people dress inappropriately for the society in which they find themselves, the consequences of that should not include becoming a victim to crimes of violence. Anyone who rapes anyone, anywhere is a criminal and deserves to be treated as such and their actions cannot be excused, even in part, by the way the victim was dressed.

Al Hilaly's comments are disgraceful and just underlines how out of touch he is with the real world. It also shows he has an inherent disrespect for women which should compromises his credibility as a spiritual leader. I believe the reason for his apology was not due to any heartfelt remorse but other people more worried about the PR of Islam in the west bringing political pressure to bear. He should still resign.

Yes, completely agree. But a more interesting question is: what is AC's motive for quoting him and does he agree with him?

EGOR
27-10-2006, 08:38 AM
Yes, completely agree. But a more interesting question is: what is AC's motive for quoting him and does he agree with him?
It is never correct to refer to AC and motive in the same sentence.:naughty: :whistle:

WhiteElephant
27-10-2006, 08:39 AM
It is never correct to refer to AC and motive in the same sentence.:naughty: :whistle:

That's why it's interesting....such a mystery....

EGOR
27-10-2006, 08:40 AM
That's why it's interesting....such a mystery....
:lol: :lol:

arosar
27-10-2006, 09:47 AM
The guy, sheikh whateverthefu*khisnameis, is scum who is harmful to his religion. He says something then reckons he's been "taken out of context" or "misinterpreted". He must think we're all bloody stupid. Fact is, he's been saying these outrageous remarks for years. And each time, we just let them go. It's now time that these mohameddans clean up their own house and boot this moron out.

I live in Bankstown, Little Beirut, and you see these mohammedan sheilas walking around like bloody ninjas. Now that's their choice and I have no problems with that (though I can't understand how they manage in the Aussie summer). Last thing they need is some leader whose words dictate how other good looking sheilas should dress.

Deport the sheikh.

AR

Garvinator
27-10-2006, 10:06 AM
Wasnt this guy the same fool who went to Iraq to get Douglas Wood out and Andrew Bolt told everyone the shake;) is a fraud who wouldnt do any good. The shake;) basically told a whole lot of bullshit and didnt even get close to getting Douglas Wood out from the kidnappers.

Andrew Bolt accused him of just trying to attract publicity for himself.

If I do have the right person, surely Immigration should have denied him re-entry into Australia, I bet they are kicking themselves now :doh:

Kevin Bonham
27-10-2006, 02:23 PM
Thread title changed - "Islam" dropped to reflect the fact that Islamic leaders in Australia have roundly condemned these comments and they are thus not a fair reflection of the religion in this country.

Desmond
27-10-2006, 03:02 PM
The point is that everyone should respect other people's right to choose how they dress. Even if people dress inappropriately for the society in which they find themselves...I can't agree with that. People who are visitors in another country should respect the local laws and behave accordingly.

antichrist
27-10-2006, 03:04 PM
I can't agree with that. People who are visitors in another country should respect the local laws and behave accordingly.

I agree, it would be shocking to land in Aussie two hundred years ago and be fully clothed whilst all the aborigines are naked. Imagine the pastor's wife having to strip her gear off and parading nude amongst the native men - that would make them run 500 miles away.

antichrist
27-10-2006, 03:07 PM
I can't agree with that. People who are visitors in another country should respect the local laws and behave accordingly.

Decades ago I went into my favourite Lebo restaurant (Muslim owners) dressed only in my cossies, back from swimming. The owners missus said I should not have come in there like that, I told her not to watch.

Then later they were praying out the back to Mecca, I told them they were aimed the wrong way, south instead of north, they told me that their prayers go around the earth and hit Mecca with a backhander.

antichrist
27-10-2006, 03:27 PM
If all the chicks on the beach covered up like our mate Sheik is suggesting, the Muslim boys will surely be upset - talk about ruining their day out

antichrist
27-10-2006, 03:31 PM
The guy, sheikh whateverthefu*khisnameis, is scum who is harmful to his religion. He says something then reckons he's been "taken out of context" or "misinterpreted". He must think we're all bloody stupid. Fact is, he's been saying these outrageous remarks for years. And each time, we just let them go. It's now time that these mohameddans clean up their own house and boot this moron out.

I live in Bankstown, Little Beirut, and you see these mohammedan sheilas walking around like bloody ninjas. Now that's their choice and I have no problems with that (though I can't understand how they manage in the Aussie summer). Last thing they need is some leader whose words dictate how other good looking sheilas should dress.

Deport the sheikh.

AR
Could I get you a beauty but would be barred for months - just remember dental floss

Rincewind
27-10-2006, 06:28 PM
I can't agree with that. People who are visitors in another country should respect the local laws and behave accordingly.

I think you misunderstand what I said. A careful reading of my post would reveal that I didn't say that the norms of society should not be respected. I just said that the consequences of NOT adhering to those norms should NOT including becoming the victim of a violent crime.

By way of example, in Australia, the crime of indecent exposure has penalties as prescribed by the penal code. Citizens should not be able to assault (sexually or otherwise) those who break that law. So even if someone was dressed indecently it would never excuse the crime of rape committed against that person.

eclectic
27-10-2006, 06:49 PM
I know the word "Islam" has been dropped from the thread title; but could the name "Hilary" be corrected too lest there be a mistaken idea that a former first lady might be undergoing a radical psychosexual culture transformation. :owned:

Desmond
27-10-2006, 06:49 PM
I think you misunderstand what I said. A careful reading of my post would reveal that I didn't say that the norms of society should not be respected. I just said that the consequences of NOT adhering to those norms should NOT including becoming the victim of a violent crime.But aren't you projecting our laws onto other cultures? Is it a crime in that country for a man to behave that way?

firegoat7
27-10-2006, 06:50 PM
The point is that everyone should respect other people's right to choose how they dress.

I will remember to quote you on that RW, next time my local RSL does not allow me into the venue because I am wearing a pair of thongs and a singlet! :owned:

cheers Fg7

Rincewind
27-10-2006, 07:42 PM
But aren't you projecting our laws onto other cultures? Is it a crime in that country for a man to behave that way?

What are you talking about? Al Hilaly lives in Australia.

Rincewind
27-10-2006, 07:44 PM
I will remember to quote you on that RW, next time my local RSL does not allow me into the venue because I am wearing a pair of thongs and a singlet! :owned:

Quote me out of context as much as you like.

Garrett
28-10-2006, 08:38 AM
I will remember to quote you on that RW, next time my local RSL does not allow me into the venue because I am wearing a pair of thongs and a singlet! :owned:

cheers Fg7

Try adding a pair of stubbies next time too.

Desmond
28-10-2006, 09:21 AM
What are you talking about? Al Hilaly lives in Australia.
Presumably he was referring to happens "back home".

Rincewind
28-10-2006, 09:42 AM
Presumably he was referring to happens "back home".

My understanding was his comments were in reference to a high profile gang rape which happened in Sydney. Perhaps that link was made by the media reporting the comments but it does not seem a too much of a stretch.

Desmond
28-10-2006, 09:46 AM
My understanding was his comments were in reference to a high profile gang rape which happened in Sydney. Perhaps that link was made by the media reporting the comments but it does not seem a too much of a stretch.
I meant to say, Presumably he was referring to what happens "back home".

antichrist
28-10-2006, 02:45 PM
The Sheik is an Idiot with no respect for Women. Unfortunately his position is reflective of the attitues of a large segment of the middle-eastern society. Correct me if I am wrong but in some of the Gulf states- Women are not able to cast their votes at state and local elections.

Hopefully, the attitues are going to change over the time. I got a chess-friend (i play with him alot online at a chess server, incidently -he played for Qatar at the 2002 chess ollympiad) and he is as disgusted by these comments as I am. So ya...lets hope for some positive changes.

Concerning respect for women, not necessarily so, they just perceive in a different manner, even could be seen as greater respect than we have!

No millions of abortions on women's bodies each year causing physical and psychological damage in many cases.

No admiring women just for their bodies.

No deserting women who may get overweight.

No millions of kids left with struggling abandoned mothers.

Elderly women cared for at home - never put in nursing homes out of the way.

I don't consider not being able to vote the biggest crime in the world. Environmentalism and socialistic policites are much more important. Strictly speaking the most important issue is that the best decisions are made, not who may happen to vote those policies in. Women could vote for Thatcher because she is a woman and then may go on to launch a nuke war against Argentina. What is more important that women be able to campaign on women's issues as well as other issues. It could be only the past 20 years that women in the west have voted progressively on women's issues.

Concerning change, as the West is not a perfect society if we could have the advantages of both societies without the dysfunctionalism would be the preferrable option.

Now that the Sheik has attacked the White House he should be inducted into our Living National Treasures Hall of Fame.

Oepty
28-10-2006, 04:44 PM
My understanding was his comments were in reference to a high profile gang rape which happened in Sydney. Perhaps that link was made by the media reporting the comments but it does not seem a too much of a stretch.

Barry. From what I have heard his comments were not about rape at all, they were about adultery. The word he used does not in anyway refer to rape and a translation of the word rape is totally and utterly wrong. Also he was quoting a Muslim scholar for some of remarks and may not have even completely agreed with them. Even giving him that explanation though his comments were very poor and something he should be ashamed of.
Also I believe he is an Australian citerzin so it would be a bit difficult to just kick him out of the country as some have suggested.
Scott

Kevin Bonham
28-10-2006, 07:05 PM
A translation of the Sheik's comments may be found here (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20652824-2,00.html). Given that he is talking about Long Bay jail how can he not be talking about rape in at least part of the speech?

This link is provided in the interests of public debate only - I find the sheik's comments offensive and do not endorse them on any level.

Rincewind
29-10-2006, 09:18 AM
Barry. From what I have heard his comments were not about rape at all, they were about adultery. The word he used does not in anyway refer to rape and a translation of the word rape is totally and utterly wrong. Also he was quoting a Muslim scholar for some of remarks and may not have even completely agreed with them. Even giving him that explanation though his comments were very poor and something he should be ashamed of.

Scott, firstly if you you were going to make an apologist speech in favour of the Sydney rapists, would you use the word "rape"? Secondly, when quoting, people tend to not repeat words they don't agree with or make it clear the extent to which they do agree with what they quote.

Edit: Judging on the translation provided by the link above, the direct quotation from al-Rafihi is a very small part of the passage and al-Hilaly expands on it enthusiastically. I can't see there is much there he seems to disagree with. And as Kevin says, the comments about getting 65 years in Long Bay would seem to make the context clear, even if you substitute "adultery" for "rape".


Also I believe he is an Australian citerzin so it would be a bit difficult to just kick him out of the country as some have suggested.

But not I.

Oepty
29-10-2006, 03:07 PM
A translation of the Sheik's comments may be found here (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20652824-2,00.html). Given that he is talking about Long Bay jail how can he not be talking about rape in at least part of the speech?

This link is provided in the interests of public debate only - I find the sheik's comments offensive and do not endorse them on any level.

Kevin. Although it probably doesn't matter it is an edited transcript. I guess it means there were things he said before it and after it. I hope so, not bits in the middle cut our.

As far as whether he was talking about rape or not, he might have been. I hadn't read his comments to this extent before. Even if he wasn't the comments are disgusting for talking about adultery. I am not trying to defend him in anyway.
Scott

Oepty
29-10-2006, 03:12 PM
Scott, firstly if you you were going to make an apologist speech in favour of the Sydney rapists, would you use the word "rape"? Secondly, when quoting, people tend to not repeat words they don't agree with or make it clear the extent to which they do agree with what they quote.

Edit: Judging on the translation provided by the link above, the direct quotation from al-Rafihi is a very small part of the passage and al-Hilaly expands on it enthusiastically. I can't see there is much there he seems to disagree with. And as Kevin says, the comments about getting 65 years in Long Bay would seem to make the context clear, even if you substitute "adultery" for "rape".


Barry. I had and have not heard of any link with a Sydney rape case concerning the comments apart from what you are claiming here. This maybe because I am not in Sydney. It does appear that he agrees with the al-Rafihi quote, but I am not sure that the translation as rape in the quote is correct. Even so the comments are disgusting.
Scott

antichrist
30-10-2006, 01:27 PM
The Sheik is in trouble for maybe supporting the Jihadists in Afganistan and Iraq. Just because I don't support the Jihadist (mainly because I have not really thought about it) does not mean that I support the Allied cause. Aussie, because we have troops there, needs more debate on these issues without pointing fingers and saying "He's supporting terrorists" - because there is good argument that we should not be there at all, now nor in the first place, nor supporting the USA now nor in the first place.