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Kevin Bonham
22-09-2006, 03:39 PM
Quite a complex qualification system. I have seen that the qualifiers for the eight-player double round robin are:

Winner of Kramnik/Topalov match
Anand
Svidler
Morozevich (these three by top four finish in last eight-player FIDE round robin)

Four players drawn from knockout candidates' matches involving the following (selected in various ways) :

Aronian
Leko
Ponomariov
Gelfand
Bacrot
Grischuk
Polgar
Shirov
Adams
Bareev
Malakhov
Kamsky
Kasimjanov
Rublevsky
Gurevich
Carlsen

(Pairings are 1-16, 2-15 etc)

However the page where I saw this was a FIDE page dated March; does anyone know if this is still valid or if anything has changed? It was suggested matches could be starting as early as 20 October.

Garrett
22-09-2006, 06:59 PM
I think its a bit absurd that the loser of the Kramnik - Topa match wont be playing.

Kevin Bonham
22-09-2006, 07:18 PM
I think its a bit absurd that the loser of the Kramnik - Topa match wont be playing.

You're not alone in that view.

It is a very strange arrangement.

If the same system is repeated after that (is it?) then the loser will also have to go through a couple of elimination matches to get into the eight players for the next final.

Bill Gletsos
22-09-2006, 07:37 PM
The reasoning is as follows:

The regulations for the 2007 World Championship Tournament consists of 8 players same as San Luis.

Those players are:
1) the reigning World Champion,
2) the three (3) players who were placed 2-4 in the San Luis World Championship Tournament 2005,
3) the four (4) winners of the second round Candidate Matches.

After the Topalov V Kramnnik match only one of them will be the recognised as the reigning world champion.

Ian Rout
23-09-2006, 10:32 AM
It may seem surprising if you don't know the background, but I don't know it's any more absurd than kicking out somebody who was already qualified, which is the only way you could get the loser in. Apart from being unfair it means that a champion could deal someone into the cycle by organising a match with them.

The reason it's happened is that Kramnik insisted that he was the real Champion and persistently declined his rights to participate in the cycle both before and after San Luis. Hence there will be no vacancy among the qualifiers if he wins the match, as would normally be the case in such circumstances.

In terms of the composition of the 2007 contenders, if Kramnik loses the match he will be exactly where he was before. If Topalov loses it's unfortunate, to say the least, that he won't get a chance in the next cycle but he knew that was the risk. (Does he go to the top of the reserves if a vacancy arises?)

Rhubarb
23-09-2006, 11:22 AM
If Topalov loses it's unfortunate, to say the least, that he won't get a chance in the next cycle but he knew that was the risk. (Does he go to the top of the reserves if a vacancy arises?)
By agreeing to these conditions, Topalov has probably done more for reunification than anyone else in the last 13 years. So, yes, it would be a travesty if he was locked out of the next cycle. Still, he wants to be the undisputed best, and that means taking care of Kramnik.

Kevin Bonham
23-09-2006, 11:54 AM
The reason it's happened is that Kramnik insisted that he was the real Champion and persistently declined his rights to participate in the cycle both before and after San Luis. Hence there will be no vacancy among the qualifiers if he wins the match, as would normally be the case in such circumstances.

So it is basically a case of slotting the possibility of Kramnik competing into a cycle that had already been laid down?

In that case it seems fair enough.

Bill Gletsos
24-09-2006, 10:41 PM
From report on the FIDE Presidential Board meeting held 22-23 September:

In order to resolve difficulties in the organization of the Candidate matches, the Board offered a round-robin tournament for the 16 players as an alternative to the original form of the competition. President Ilyumzhinov offered to hold all the matches or the tournament in Elista in April 2007.

Vlad
25-09-2006, 05:02 PM
Yeah, they preparing the grounds for entering Topalov into the preliminary qualifier. Fair enough.:)

Bill Gletsos
25-09-2006, 05:13 PM
Yeah, they preparing the grounds for entering Topalov into the preliminary qualifier. Fair enough.:)But arent those 16 qualifiers the 16 mentioned in Kevins original post and thus already determined.

arosar
25-09-2006, 10:25 PM
http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/event/kratop06/gelfand.html

AR

Garvinator
26-09-2006, 04:34 PM
I am not surprised that fide havent been able to get the candidates matches organised. I think the 'marketplace' has spoken in that it wants the old style candidate matches back and the old cycles.

What happened to the reports of Turkey running the candidate matches, surely that wasnt just marketing puff :whistle:

Kevin Bonham
26-09-2006, 08:39 PM
I think it represents the difficulty of co-ordinating a bidding process for such a range of matches in a relatively short space of time - especially when the matches are not all that marketable. Much easier to just say "let's just have one tournament in one place".

Garvinator
30-05-2007, 11:23 PM
Seems to be the most appropriate thread, couldnt find a Mexico World Championship thread.


Bulgarian Chess Federation to FIDE: Let Topalov play!
30.05.2007 – Before the world championship match between Veselin Topalov and Vladimir Kramnik in Elista both players signed an agreement that said the loser of that match would not play in the 2007 World Championship in Mexico. That was Topalov, whose federation is now pleading for him to be allowed to participate – as the ninth player in the event. Press release.

Position of the Bulgarian Chess Federation

The forthcoming tournament for world championship in Mexico starting on 11th September 2007 represents the end of one cycle that extends over the period after the tournament in San Luis (Argentina). As it is well known, Veselin Topalov became World Champion there. Considering the great interest in the world he accepted to play a match with Vladimir Kramnik in Elista even though he was not obliged to do so. Moreover, Veselin Topalov agreed that the loser of that match would not be allowed to play in Mexico because, according to FIDE regulations, adopted on 10th January 2006, every former World Champion or a chess-player with a coefficient over 2700 could, under certain conditions, challenge the World Champion to a match.

On the basis of this position, the Bulgarian party asked for a new match for the world title and provided the required amount of two million US dollars for the purpose. The arguments FIDE submitted against playing a match for the world title, for which all requirements were met, were not convincing. Arguments of the kind that the bank guarantees were from a bank FIDE doesn’t recognize and later on that the time was short for organizing and performing such a match demonstrated that FIDE would compromise its own decisions lead by interests that may differ from those of chess. In order to substantiate its position, in the meantime FIDE approved a new system for electing the World Champion, which goes contrary to the rules, because the regulations may not be modified within one cycle. In this way, Veselin Topalov was definitely deprived of the possibility to take part in the competitions for the world title.

A new system for organizing the world championships should be adopted only after a thorough discussion with the participation of a maximum number of national federations; this new system has to be voted on a FIDE congress and to come into effect during the following cycle. Any other action and decision is a breach of democracy, it is intended to favor certain interests and doesn’t contribute to the development of the chess game.

The Bulgarian Chess Federation believes that with its last actions FIDE shows a bias attitude toward Veselin Topalov – one of the strongest chess players in the world. Depriving him of the possibility to participate in the competitions for world championship substantiates this belief.

Since Veselin Topalov was not allowed to play with V. Kramnik in 2007, it is most evident that he should be permitted to take part in the World Championship tournament in Mexico. In this way an injustice will be remedied – at least in part – and FIDE will prove that the world chess interests are its priority and that the World Champion should be elected in a competition between the best chess players in the world. Any argumentation for the non-admission of V. Topalov is deprived of any logic. The second, the third and the forth players from St. Louis will play there but the first one will not! The second in the world ranking list, the chess player who won seven super-tournaments during the last two years will not be allowed to play there! Why? Only because FIDE has changed its system in the meantime?!

We suggest a FIDE resolution is passed for nine participants to play in the tournament in Mexico. The organizers have no objections and they will be happy because Veselin Topalov is very popular not only in Mexico but in the whole of Latin America as well.

29 May 2007, Sofia
BULGARIAN CHESS FEDERATION
Stefan Sergiev, PhD.
President

Only just read this.

Cant help but think:

1) what a shock that this comes out right at the time of the candidates matches.

2) Fide should say, we may let you play if you give up your automatic match against Kramnik after Mexico. (if they can actually say with contracts already in place).

3) I wonder if the Mexico organisers really do have no objections, as claimed by the Bulgarian Chess Federation. I would like to see that in writing thanks from the Mexico organisers.

Bill Gletsos
30-05-2007, 11:42 PM
2) Fide should say, we may let you play if you give up your automatic match against Kramnik after Mexico. (if they can actually say with contracts already in place).What automatic match with Kramnik after Mexico?

eclectic
30-05-2007, 11:52 PM
Someone ought to tell Topalov and his cronies to ST**
:hand:

Garvinator
31-05-2007, 12:04 AM
What automatic match with Kramnik after Mexico?
Isnt the cycle that if Kramnik wins in Mexico, Topalov gets the match. If Kramnik loses, then the winner of Mexico plays Kramnik?

I have read this a few times.

Kevin Bonham
31-05-2007, 12:06 AM
What automatic match with Kramnik after Mexico?

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3704 states:


a1. 2008: The winner from WCCT 2007 in Mexico plays a World Championship match against the previous World Champion. If Kramnik does not win the WCCT 2007, then Kramnik can challenge the winner of Mexico in the first part of 2008. If Kramnik wins in Mexico, then the right to challenge goes to the previous World Champion, i.e. Topalov.

Of course if Kramnik doesn't win then Topalov is out in the cold til the 2010 match, and has to win the 2009 World Cup to get there. No wonder he is so keen to sneak his way into Mexico!

PS I note (now that he is no longer WC and no longer #1) Topalov's website now says he is the N1 chess player of the 21st century!

Bill Gletsos
31-05-2007, 12:07 AM
Isnt the cycle that if Kramnik wins in Mexico, Topalov gets the match. If Kramnik loses, then the winner of Mexico plays Kramnik?

I have read this a few times.Thats correct.
However that hardly constitutes an automatic match with Kramnik as it is dependant on Kramnik first winning in Mexico.

Kevin Bonham
31-05-2007, 12:09 AM
By the way the proposed cycle is quite harsh on anyone else who may win Mexico. They get to bask in their glory for a whole six or nine months before they have to face Kramnik in a rematch.

eclectic
31-05-2007, 12:10 AM
Isnt the cycle that if Kramnik wins in Mexico, Topalov gets the match. If Kramnik loses, then the winner of Mexico plays Kramnik?

I have read this a few times.

Why can't the winner of Mexico be left alone for two or three years to actually enjoy the title of World Chess Champion without needing to continually look over their shoulder?

eclectic
31-05-2007, 01:23 AM
Part I of an interview with Kramnik just up on Chessbase.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3894

I placed the link here given he deals with matters covered in this thread.