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WhiteElephant
06-07-2006, 04:31 PM
Just browsing through the latest ChessBase news as you do, and what do I see?

Moulthun Ly, not only competing at the World Open in Philadelphia, but scoring 6 points, only 1 point behind the winner, Gata Kamsky, and ahead of plenty of GMs and titled players.

What a performance! Always good to see Aussies doing well overseas. :clap:

Here's the link to the article: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3220

bigredcar
06-07-2006, 04:39 PM
why werent we told ??


Congrats

Watto
06-07-2006, 05:45 PM
This is the field he played...
(the number after W or L is the player's final ranking)

L 24 GM Vescovi, Giovanni P 2631 6.0
W 151 Collier, Philip M 2200 4.0
W 75 FM Hoekstra, Matthew 2397 5.0
L 15 GM Shabalov, Alexander 2671 6.5
W 177 Bennett, David M 2102 3.5
W 49 FM Bartholomew, John 2452 5.5
L 29 IM Cordova, Emilio 2577 6.0
W 77 WGM Mohota, Nisha 2387 5.0
W 71 IM Florean, Andrei 2449 5.0

Alan Shore
06-07-2006, 05:58 PM
This is the field he played...
(the number after W or L is the player's final ranking)

L 24 GM Vescovi, Giovanni P 2631 6.0
W 151 Collier, Philip M 2200 4.0
W 75 FM Hoekstra, Matthew 2397 5.0
L 15 GM Shabalov, Alexander 2671 6.5
W 177 Bennett, David M 2102 3.5
W 49 FM Bartholomew, John 2452 5.5
L 29 IM Cordova, Emilio 2577 6.0
W 77 WGM Mohota, Nisha 2387 5.0
W 71 IM Florean, Andrei 2449 5.0

Thanks Watto, congratulations to Moulthun! That must have been close to an IM norm performance, can any of the ratings gurus elucidate further?

antichrist
06-07-2006, 06:26 PM
I hope he doesn't have groupies fighting over him on the dancefloor at good-bye party.

Mischa
06-07-2006, 06:38 PM
such a talented kid..congrats to him

Dozy
06-07-2006, 07:24 PM
Many thanks for that WE and Watto, it would have been a shame to miss it.

I'll see if I can glean enough info to write a feature about Moulthun for the Rooty Hill page. (You don't gotta be a member to get written up there. We'll do stories about anybody interesting.)

By the way WE, you got a mention on NCIS last night when Ducky was soliloquising over a cadaver.

It seems the king of Siam (who looked just like Yul Brynner) cornered the market on white elephants and would give one as a gift to any courtier who raised his ire. The gift was magnificent, but the cost of proper upkeep was ruinous.

WhiteElephant
06-07-2006, 10:32 PM
By the way WE, you got a mention on NCIS last night when Ducky was soliloquising over a cadaver.

It seems the king of Siam (who looked just like Yul Brynner) cornered the market on white elephants and would give one as a gift to any courtier who raised his ire. The gift was magnificent, but the cost of proper upkeep was ruinous.

Hey that's cool. I'm been mentioned in literature a fair bit but never on prime time tv as far as I know.

Garvinator
06-07-2006, 11:50 PM
Thanks Watto, congratulations to Moulthun! That must have been close to an IM norm performance, can any of the ratings gurus elucidate further?
Can someone check this further, because from looking through the fide regs and using their rating calculators, I think Moulthun might have gotten an IM norm.

Please do not take this as anywhere near fact.

Bill Gletsos
07-07-2006, 12:10 AM
Can someone check this further, because from looking through the fide regs and using their rating calculators, I think Moulthun might have gotten an IM norm.

Please do not take this as anywhere near fact.The ratings listed are USCF not FIDE so you will need to check the FIDE ratings of his opponents on the FIDE website.
Remember if the event started before 1st July then the April ratings are needed.

Garvinator
07-07-2006, 01:06 AM
The ratings listed are USCF not FIDE so you will need to check the FIDE ratings of his opponents on the FIDE website.
Remember if the event started before 1st July then the April ratings are needed.
Unfortunately, this is crucial and something I had not allowed for.

Moulthun's performance rating (PR) for the tournament is 2376 according to the fide rating calculator, including increasing his lowest rated opponent up to 2100 as per 1.46c. Even if the calculator is 'wrong' by a few rating points, it wont be 75 points wrong.

This is short of the 2451 PR required for an IM norm. Moulthun did meet all the other required conditions.

No IM norm for Moulthun :(

Rhubarb
07-07-2006, 02:34 AM
Moulthun's performance rating (PR) for the tournament is 2376 according to the fide rating calculator, including increasing his lowest rated opponent up to 2100 as per 1.46c. Well, the average is 2376 using the April 2006 list (and higher if the July list was used). But he scored 6/9, which is half a point over the norm and a PR of 2501.


Even if the calculator is 'wrong' by a few rating points, it wont be 75 points wrong.Depends what you mean by "the calculator".:P



Moulthun did meet all the other required conditions.Certainly he's okay in terms of titled players, rated players and federations - six Americans and one each from India, Peru and Brazil. Assuming there were no more than two games a day and minimum 120 minutes each (you can never tell with some of these American tournaments), then it should be fine for a norm.

Garvinator
07-07-2006, 02:57 AM
Well, the average is 2376 using the April 2006 list (and higher if the July list was used). But he scored 6/9, which is half a point over the norm and a PR of 2493. Yes, I used the april fide ratings in the second post.


Depends what you mean by "the calculator".:P http://www.fide.com/ratings/calculators.phtml


Certainly he's okay in terms of titled players, rated players and federations - six Americans and one each from India, Peru and Brazil. Assuming there were no more than two games a day and minimum 120 minutes each (you can never tell with some of these American tournaments), then it should be fine for a norm.
One round per day I do believe at 9 round Swiss, 40/2, SD/1

Rhubarb
07-07-2006, 03:29 AM
http://www.fide.com/ratings/calculators.phtmlThat calculator gives a PR of 2414 (not 2376), which contradicts the table in 1.48 on this page: http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=B0101. Average is 2376, 6/9=67%, corresponding to 125 rating difference. So, PR=2376+125=2501 [edited].



One round per day I do believe at 9 round Swiss, 40/2, SD/1
The main schedule was 9 rounds in 7 days from June 28-July 4 (can we assume Moulthun played this schedule?). But my point was that there are shorter schedules with faster time controls for the first few rounds where you wouldn't be able to get a norm, and some of these schedules start in July (under a different rating list?) Like a lot of big American opens, it's a complete mess.

Kevin Bonham
07-07-2006, 04:10 PM
Awesome result. Beat an IM, a WGM and two FMs only losing to two GMs and an IM. I hope he does get a norm for this because he deserves it.

Arrogant-One
07-07-2006, 04:22 PM
This is the field he played...
(the number after W or L is the player's final ranking)

L 24 GM Vescovi, Giovanni P 2631 6.0
W 151 Collier, Philip M 2200 4.0
W 75 FM Hoekstra, Matthew 2397 5.0
L 15 GM Shabalov, Alexander 2671 6.5
W 177 Bennett, David M 2102 3.5
W 49 FM Bartholomew, John 2452 5.5
L 29 IM Cordova, Emilio 2577 6.0
W 77 WGM Mohota, Nisha 2387 5.0
W 71 IM Florean, Andrei 2449 5.0
Thats a tremendous result!!! Fullest congratulations to Ly. I think soon he will eclipse Smerdon as Australia's most promising player. And to think he nearly ended my chess career when he beat me at the Gold Coast Open!

pax
07-07-2006, 04:40 PM
Terriffic result.

By the way Garvin, it is best to ignore the FIDE rating calculators. The results are almost invariably total garbage. The CERN rating calculator (http://chess.cern.ch/ratings/elocalc.en.shtml), or the rating tables in the FIDE handbook are a much better bet.

BTW Don't use the CERN calc to estimate FIDE rating changes (it is designed for local ratings), as the K factor is wrong (or else you can divide by 1.6 or whatever to get the right K).

pax
07-07-2006, 04:51 PM
Clearly an IM norm.

Furthermore, unless I am much mistaken he takes home US$9000 for sharing (with one other player) first place in the u/2300 section ($12000 first, $6000 second) :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
http://www.worldopen.com/tourney_info.htm

And we wonder why rating abuse is rampant in America! :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

edit: Actually I see that only 60% was guaranteed, so it may be more like $5400 for Moulthun. Still a pretty nice payday.

pax
07-07-2006, 04:54 PM
$25000 for first under 1600 anyone?!? :eek:

Garvinator
07-07-2006, 05:02 PM
$25000 for first under 1600 anyone?!? :eek:
Under 1400, $15000 for first :hmm: :whistle:

Now surely having free entry for all and free accommodation would almost have to be a better idea than prize amounts for the general riff raff of these amounts. Would get the sponsors more exposure for sure.

pax
07-07-2006, 05:41 PM
Under 1400, $15000 for first :hmm: :whistle:

Now surely having free entry for all and free accommodation would almost have to be a better idea than prize amounts for the general riff raff of these amounts. Would get the sponsors more exposure for sure.

Would it? I'm not sure. "$500,000 in PRIZEMONEY!!!!!!" is a pretty good catch line. And the punters seem to be up for it - there are around 1400 players putting up entry fees around the $400 mark. Do the sums - I'm not sure that there *is* a great deal in the way of sponsorship.

Garvinator
07-07-2006, 05:45 PM
Would it? I'm not sure. "$500,000 in PRIZEMONEY!!!!!!" is a pretty good catch line. And the punters seem to be up for it - there are around 1400 players putting up entry fees around the $400 mark. Do the sums - I'm not sure that there *is* a great deal in the way of sponsorship.
fair enough, hadnt bothered checking the maths at all. I am in other threads at the moment :owned: :P

Kevin Bonham
07-07-2006, 05:49 PM
$25000 for first under 1600 anyone?!? :eek:

Sheesh, it's got even worse than a few years ago.

Having congratulated Moulthun on his brilliant effort, it is nonetheless my view that the offering of ratings prizes this high should be banned.

Desmond
07-07-2006, 05:50 PM
Sheesh, it's got even worse than a few years ago.

Having congratulated Moulthun on his brilliant effort, it is nonetheless my view that the offering of ratings prizes this high should be banned.
Now I understand why they have a sandbagging problem over in the USA.

Garvinator
07-07-2006, 05:58 PM
Having congratulated Moulthun on his brilliant effort, it is nonetheless my view that the offering of ratings prizes this high should be banned.If Matt was here he would be saying that the acf should ban prizes that high :whistle: :lol:

WhiteElephant
07-07-2006, 06:11 PM
Few things:

1) Moulthun was on ICC today saying that he had earned an IM Norm, I doubt he'd be saying it unless he was sure.

2) I don't know why people are complaining about huge prizemoney - the more the better in my opinion, even if it is in lower rating categories. I'd rather have a problem with sandbagging than having trouble getting enough people to turn up to tournaments.

3) I'd be curious to know whether there are any stats on proportion of players who play chess in America Vs Australia, distribution of numbers throughout rating groups in Aus, US and other countries. It seems that chess is thriving in America, or does it just appear that way because the population is so huge?

Kevin Bonham
07-07-2006, 07:29 PM
3) I'd be curious to know whether there are any stats on proportion of players who play chess in America Vs Australia, distribution of numbers throughout rating groups in Aus, US and other countries. It seems that chess is thriving in America, or does it just appear that way because the population is so huge?

USA population = 299 million
Australia population = 20.4 million

On active FIDE list
2600+: AUS 0 USA 8
2500-2599: AUS 1 USA 23
2400-2499: AUS 7 USA 48
2300-2399: AUS 10 USA 90
2200-2299: AUS 37 USA 223

Anything below that is probably meaningless because of different levels of interest in FIDE-rating low level events, and because it is too difficult to meaningfully compare USCF and ACF playing strengths. These stats suggest that we punch above our weight compared to them except at the very highest level (at which our population is so small the difference is meaningless anyway - but basically the US is probably a more attractive relocation place for strong overseas GMs).

No idea how they compare for # of rated players.


If Matt was here he would be saying that the acf should ban prizes that high

Indeed. Matt loves things to be banned, except when he is one of them. :hmm:

Garvinator
07-07-2006, 07:29 PM
3) I'd be curious to know whether there are any stats on proportion of players who play chess in America Vs Australia, distribution of numbers throughout rating groups in Aus, US and other countries. It seems that chess is thriving in America, or does it just appear that way because the population is so huge?
Size of population is a massive factor. Imagine how different our tournaments would be here if we had our entire population crammed into just a few hundred square kms, just like where the World Open was held.

I imagine that tournaments like Doeberl would be the norm, as opposed to the decided exception.

four four two
07-07-2006, 07:39 PM
$25000 for first under 1600 anyone?!? :eek:

The entry fee is over $300 US dollars...hence the big prize money.

We should also remember there are over 1,000 competitors in this tournament.

These competitors are also asked to bring their own chess sets and clock.:rolleyes:

four four two
07-07-2006, 07:54 PM
3) I'd be curious to know whether there are any stats on proportion of players who play chess in America Vs Australia, distribution of numbers throughout rating groups in Aus, US and other countries. It seems that chess is thriving in America, or does it just appear that way because the population is so huge?

The "World Open" has been one of the biggest if not the biggest tournament in the world in terms or participation for decades. The prize money on offer is what lures the hordes in. Garvin,while the US population is certainly more dense than ours[no pun intended;) ],I think you will find that the competitors in this tournament come from all over the USA and not just the east coast of the USA.

If this tournament was held in Canada you would get the same tournament turnout,although if it was held in europe people might be put off by the high entry fees. The americans are used too high entry fees...as well as being required to bring their own set and clock to the tournament.
Canada has about the same amount of tournament players as Australia does...their population is 10 million higher than ours though.

Mischa
07-07-2006, 09:12 PM
so again it is about having the money...:(

D Dragicevic
07-07-2006, 09:20 PM
congratulations to moulthan, great performance.. does anyone know how many rating points he will gain from this tournament.. it would be great if moulthan could play few more tournaments overseas while he is playing so well... surely, 2300 and an FM title is not too far away(that is if he can get few more strong tournaments)...

WhiteElephant
07-07-2006, 10:42 PM
USA population = 299 million
Australia population = 20.4 million

On active FIDE list
2600+: AUS 0 USA 8
2500-2599: AUS 1 USA 23
2400-2499: AUS 7 USA 48
2300-2399: AUS 10 USA 90
2200-2299: AUS 37 USA 223

Anything below that is probably meaningless because of different levels of interest in FIDE-rating low level events, and because it is too difficult to meaningfully compare USCF and ACF playing strengths. These stats suggest that we punch above our weight compared to them except at the very highest level (at which our population is so small the difference is meaningless anyway - but basically the US is probably a more attractive relocation place for strong overseas GMs).


Thanks, that is interesting. Not to mention that most of the top US players have emigrated from Russia.

pax
07-07-2006, 10:48 PM
so again it is about having the money...:(

And so is paying the rent...

Mischa
08-07-2006, 12:40 PM
and eating...

Dozy
08-07-2006, 12:49 PM
There's a new story about Moulthun and the World Open on the Rooty Hill site.

http://www.rootyhillchess.org/moulthun.html

Rincewind
08-07-2006, 06:33 PM
and eating...

and building the world's largest particle accelerator...

Most people prioritise their expenditure and generally rent and food come an order of magnitude before going overseas to play chess which again come before building hugely expensive apparatus for particle physicists to play around with. Although priorities do vary.

Mischa
08-07-2006, 08:46 PM
ok

brett
09-07-2006, 11:39 PM
Norms achieved at 2006 World Open!


9-IM Norms (!!)
Igor Schneider, Salvijus Bercys, Emory Tate, Bryan Smith, James Critelli, Jake Kleiman,
Nicholas Yap, Moulthun Ly (AUS) and Yoshiharu Habu (JPN).


WGM Norm
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs

http://www.worldopen.com/2006Results/open.html

bergil
09-07-2006, 11:41 PM
Norms achieved at 2006 World Open!


9-IM Norms (!!)
Igor Schneider, Salvijus Bercys, Emory Tate, Bryan Smith, James Critelli, Jake Kleiman,
Nicholas Yap, Moulthun Ly (AUS) and Yoshiharu Habu (JPN).


WGM Norm
Batchimeg Tuvshintugs

http://www.worldopen.com/2006Results/open.html
Congratulations and well done Moulthun :clap:

Mischa
09-07-2006, 11:42 PM
congrats Moulthun

peter_parr
11-07-2006, 03:25 PM
Congratulations to Moulthun Ly on a great result.

A report appeared in the SMH on 10th July 2006 see
http://www.chessdiscountsales.com/news/news.htm

Jason Hu
11-07-2006, 08:43 PM
Molton is awesome, IM is not even close to his potential. Congrats anyway!
Surely Gulamali got a norm?? That guy is super. (He's Stanley on icc)

Molton also received a 2571 uscf rating :)

MichaelBaron
12-07-2006, 01:23 AM
It also worth noting that he won over $6000 in prize money:clap:

Cat
12-07-2006, 08:49 PM
Molton is awesome, IM is not even close to his potential. Congrats anyway!
Surely Gulamali got a norm?? That guy is super. (He's Stanley on icc)

Molton also received a 2571 uscf rating :)

Thats about 1400 on the Glicko.

Altecman
22-07-2006, 11:31 AM
Molton is awesome, IM is not even close to his potential. Congrats anyway!
Surely Gulamali got a norm?? That guy is super. (He's Stanley on icc)

Molton also received a 2571 uscf rating :)

heh, 2571 uscf rating, does that put him in the like top 20 in America hehe :D

MichaelBaron
23-07-2006, 06:29 PM
Molton is awesome, IM is not even close to his potential. Congrats anyway!
Surely Gulamali got a norm?? That guy is super. (He's Stanley on icc)

Molton also received a 2571 uscf rating :)

Great....since he is on ICC we can test his greatness...;)

I will try to score 25%:hmm:

Bill Gletsos
23-07-2006, 06:49 PM
heh, 2571 uscf rating, does that put him in the like top 20 in America hehe :DNo but he should make the top 40.

Igor_Goldenberg
24-07-2006, 02:05 PM
Great....since he is on ICC we can test his greatness...;)

I will try to score 25%:hmm:

Good luck.

Garvinator
10-08-2006, 11:24 AM
Scandal at the World Open:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3280

Igor_Goldenberg
10-08-2006, 11:55 AM
Indeed, cheating is a much bigger problem then steroids FIDE seems to be preoccupied with.

arosar
10-08-2006, 12:04 PM
As usual, CB is way behind. This was already covered in Chess Ninja. Then later, much later, picked up by NYT.

AR

Garvinator
10-08-2006, 12:27 PM
As usual, CB is way behind. This was already covered in Chess Ninja. Then later, much later, picked up by NYT.

AR
but was it covered by TCG ;)

Igor_Goldenberg
10-08-2006, 03:19 PM
As usual, CB is way behind. This was already covered in Chess Ninja. Then later, much later, picked up by NYT.

AR

My guess is that ChessBase checks facts to see if there is a real story, especially if the case is as serious as this one. If they find it's just a gossip or a storm in a teacup, they treat it accordinly. IMHO, it's just a prudent journalism.

Garrett
11-08-2006, 08:04 PM
As usual, CB is way behind. This was already covered in Chess Ninja. Then later, much later, picked up by NYT.

AR
Thanks for adding something constructive to the thread.

Igor_Goldenberg
12-08-2006, 03:24 PM
Back to Moulthun Ly. Should he thank Stephen Solomon for the training match they played some time ago? He definetely improved since then (as well as partially because of the match)