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StoneWall
18-02-2004, 03:46 AM
After 1. e4 d5 2. pxp Qxp 3. Nc3 Qe5+

How do I proceed? 4. KNe2 or Be2 or Qe2

What is the best move and how what are my strategic goals?

The center squares are completely abandoned and it seems like to even out the attack, Qe2 should offer a swap.

For black, is this a smart aggresive play to play 2. pxp Qxp?

Should white play 2. pxp or try and secure those center sqaures?

(edited: s/b 1. e4 not 1. e2.)

skip to my lou
18-02-2004, 04:03 AM
I have no idea about 1. e2.

Do you have ChessBase 8? You can play out the moves and it will search the DB for that opening and give a report aswell.

StoneWall
18-02-2004, 04:18 AM
I have no idea about 1. e2.

Do you have ChessBase 8? You can play out the moves and it will search the DB for that opening and give a report aswell.
I meant e4.

(what's chessbase 8?)

redo:

After 1. e4 d5 2. pxp Qxp 3. Nc3 Qe5+

How do I proceed? 4. KNe2 or Be2 or Qe2

What is the best move and how what are my strategic goals?

The center squares are completely abandoned and it seems like to even out the attack, Qe2 should offer a swap.

For black, is this a smart aggresive play to play 2. pxp Qxp?

Should white play 2. pxp or try and secure those center sqaures?

skip to my lou
18-02-2004, 11:17 AM
Chessbase 8 - www.chessbase.com

1. e4 d5 2. e4xd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qe5+

skip to my lou
18-02-2004, 11:18 AM
If you are interested in buying any ChessBase software I can get you 30% discount, email me: Jeo@chesskit.com

Kevin Bonham
18-02-2004, 02:51 PM
Hi StoneWall,

3...Qe5+ for Black is a mistake. Black normally plays 3...Qa5 or sometimes 3...Qd8 or 3...Qd6.

After 3...Qe5+?! I would play 4.Be2. Then next move you can play 5.Nf3 (attacking the queen if Black hasn't moved it again) and the move after that you can castle. On move 6 you will be castled kingside with two knights developed and ready to play Re1 when you want to (or d4 grabbing space in the centre) while Black will only have one piece and his queen out with his king still stuck in the middle. White is clearly better.

There is no point in playing 4.Qe2. If your opponent is weaker than you or around the same strength you should press for an advantage instead of swapping Qs. If your opponent is stronger and knows it, they will not swap queens anyway, and then your Q will be blocking your Bishop.

2...Qxd5 is OK for Black, 2...Nf6 is also very common. 2.exd5 for White is not the only move but by far the commonest.

Against a low-rated opponent look for opportunities to gain time by chasing the queen. Weak players (especially below 1000) playing this opening will often bring their Q out and let it get kicked all over the board, losing heaps of time.

JGB
19-02-2004, 03:02 AM
As Kevin said, Be2 is the correct move and leaves Black a long way behind in development. A Queen in the middle of the board in the opening is not usually beneficial. There are a lot of pretty games where White defeats Black quickly due to the bad placement of the black queen. I wouldnt say white is winning after Be2, but hes sure on his way...

Trent Parker
01-03-2004, 11:17 AM
actually i think i read somewhere they call this the patzer's variation. lol

Kevin Bonham
01-03-2004, 05:35 PM
actually i think i read somewhere they call this the patzer's variation.

Patzer see a check, patzer give a check, or something like that. Another common patzer queen check is Qe2+ in the French Exchange before the f1-bishop has been developed. Gives Black an extra tempo for castling and then a white queen lined up on the white king for Black to play ...Re8.

There is a little trap in the line 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qe5+. After 4.Be2 some Blacks may play 4...Bg4 hoping for 5.Nf3? when 5...Bxf3 gives White bad pawns. Just play 5.d3 or 5.d4 instead and get on with developing. :)

JGB
03-03-2004, 04:35 PM
Theres an even better Black Queen move for white. If black plays 3.Qc6?? Its lights out for blacks game, when white pins the Queen onto the King with his bishop.

davevanderkist
01-03-2005, 08:41 PM
I know the opening 1.e4 d5 very well. I always play it with black. But I hate it to play 1.e4 d5 2.exd Qxd. After 3. Nc3 you have to move your queen for the second time and black will develop his second piece. When you move your queen again, don't go to e5:
1.e4 d5 2.exd Qxd 3.Nc3 Qe5 (better go to a5 or d8) 4.Be2 Nc6 5.Nf3 and white is almost done with developing.
Ok that's why I play it different with black:
1.e4 d5 2.exd Nf6! 3.c4 (d4, Bb5+, and Nc3 are possible to but will lose the pawn) 3....e6 (c6 is more easy to play) 4.dxe Bxe 5.d4 Bb4+ 6.Be2 (don't play 6.Nc3??) 6....Qe7. Black is a pawn behind but developed 3 more pieces then white, and I win a lot more then I lose in this opening.


1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.c4 e6 4.dxe6 Bxe6 5.d4 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Qe7

Trent Parker
01-03-2005, 10:55 PM
Hello Davevanderkist

Welcome to the BB

I also like to play 2....Nf6 and have beaten some players rated higher than myself with this opening.

Just out of curiosity what do you play if white plays 3.d4 ?

davevanderkist
03-03-2005, 06:02 PM
Hello chess nut,
Thanks for welcoming me.
I understand why you ask it. This is the line I dislike most. And I'm very happy with your question, because I found a nice looking line, 2 minutes ago, for black now. The problem was 1.e4 d5 2.exd Nf6 3.d4 Nxd4 4.c4. Oh man I hate this :wall:
Here my best game in this line, 5.Bg5 isn't normal but it is a nice game (after move 44 we had both 2 minutes on the clock). After this game I will show you my new line. I hope you have other good advices on the lines with 3.d4

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Nxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.Bg5 e6 6.Nf3 c5 7.Be2 cxd4 8.Qxd4 Qa5+ 9.Nbd2 Nc6 10.Qh4 Be7 11.O-O h6 12.Nb3 Qf5 13.Rad1 O-O 14.Bc1 Nh5 15.Ng5 g6 16.f4 hxg5 17.fxg5 Qe5 18.Bxh5 gxh5 19.Qxh5 Qh8 20.Qf3 Ne5 21.Qe4 Ng6 22.Rd3 Qe5 23.Qg4 Bd6 24.Rh3 Qg7 25.Rh6 e5 26.Qh5 Be6 27.Rf6 Ne7 28.c5 Bc7 29.Nd2 Rad8 30.b3 Rd4 31.h3 Rf4 32.Nf3 Rf5 33.h4 Rd8 34.Bb2 Bd5 35.Rxf5 Nxf5 36.Rf6 Bxf3 37.Qxf3 Nxh4 38.Qh5 Ng6 39.g3 Rd2 40.Rf2 Rxf2 41.Kxf2 Qh7 42.Qf3 Qh2+ 43.Qg2 Qxg2+ 44.Kxg2 Kf8 45.Kf3 Ke7 46.Ke4 Ke6 47.b4 a6 48.a4 Bd8 49.Bc1 Ne7 50.b5 Nd5 51.Bd2 Nc7 52.b6 Nd5 53.g4 Be7 54.c6 bxc6 55.b7 Bd6 56.Ba5 Bb8 57.Kd3 Nf4+ 58.Ke4 Nh3 59.Bd2 Nf2+ 60.Kf3 Nd3 61.Ke3 Nc5 62.a5 Nxb7 63.Ke4 Nd6+ 64.Kd3 Kd5 65.Bb4 c5 66.Bc3 c4+ 67.Ke3 Nb5 68.Ba1 c3 69.Kd3 e4+ 70.Ke3 c2 71.Bb2 Nd4 72.Bc1 Nb3 73.Bb2 Be5 74.Ba3 Bd4+ 75.Ke2 e3 76.Kd3 c1=Q 77.Bxc1 Nxc1+ 78.Kc2 Ne2 79.Kd3 Ng3 80.Kc2 e2 81.Kd2 Bf2

My new line:
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 3. d4 Bg4 4. Be2 Bxe2 5. Qxe2 Qxd5 6. Nf3 e6 7. O-O Bd6 8.
c4 Qh5 9. Nc3 Nc6 10. h3 O-O-O

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 3. d4 Bg4 4. Be2 Bxe2 5. Qxe2 Qxd5 6. Nf3 e6 7. O-O Bd6 8.
c4 Qh5 9. Nc3 Nc6 10. h3 O-O-O 11. Be3 g5 12. Nxg5 Qg6 13. Qf3 Bb4 14. Rfd1
Bxc3 15. bxc3 h6 16. d5 Ne5 17. Qe2 hxg5 18. Bxa7 Qf5 19. Rab1 Ne4 20. Bd4 g4
21. Qb2 b6 22. Qa3 gxh3 23. Bxb6 Nf3+ 24. Kf1 hxg2+ 25. Ke2 Ng3+ 26. fxg3 Qe4+
27. Be3 g1=N+ 28. Kf1 Qxc4+ 29. Kg2 Rh2#

Trent Parker
04-03-2005, 10:53 AM
Yeah i play the Bg4 variation, which can lead into a gambit... if white plays f3 and then c4, but black has a massive lead in development.....

davevanderkist
04-03-2005, 06:18 PM
Do you have some games? I didn't play it before.

Frank Walker
01-10-2005, 05:04 PM
If you are interested in buying any ChessBase software I can get you 30% discount, email me: Jeo@chesskit.com

Just get Chessbase light, it isnt that great but it has fritz.