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firegoat7
17-02-2004, 08:37 PM
Greetings everyone,

This tournament is a twelve player round robin played on 3 days of the week, starting on Sunday 14th March and running every Sunday (2.00pm), Tuesday and Thursday (both 7.00pm) until Thursday the 1st of April.

Time control:90 minutes +30 seconds a move

Entry fee $120

Prizes 1st $500, 2nd $250, 3rd $150. The winner goes through into the Qualifier for the Australian Masters. The tournament will be FIDE rated. All players should gain a FIDE Rating.

Where: Melbourne Chess Club - Serving Australian chess since 1866.
66 leicester st Fitzroy 3065. Ph-number 94163149.
Contact Greig Gatto for further details.

Cheers FG7

P.S Qualifyer is in May 2004 and Australian Masters in August 2004- all held at the Melbourne Chess Club.

Kerry Stead
17-02-2004, 10:39 PM
The winner goes through into the Qualifier for the Australian Masters.
P.S Qualifyer is in May 2004 and Australian Masters in August 2004- all held at the Melbourne Chess Club.
A qualifying tournament to make the qualifying tournament to the Australian Masters? Sheesh! That's a bit rough ... need about 14/18 just to make it into the Masters ... only to then get clobbered in the Masters!

Kevin Bonham
17-02-2004, 11:01 PM
A qualifying tournament to make the qualifying tournament to the Australian Masters? Sheesh! That's a bit rough ... need about 14/18 just to make it into the Masters ... only to then get clobbered in the Masters!

Indeed, and firegoat says the winner goes through to the Qualifier; who else will be in the Qualifier and how do they get there? Ditto for the Masters itself.

Also, "all players should gain a FIDE rating" - surely this only applies to those who perform over 1800 FIDE vs sufficient FIDE rated players?

Sounds like a test run for some of firegoat's ideas from the Aus Champs format debates. Will be interesting to see how it goes.

Bill Gletsos
17-02-2004, 11:08 PM
Also, "all players should gain a FIDE rating" - surely this only applies to those who perform over 1800 FIDE vs sufficient FIDE rated players?
Actually by the time the Masters will be played and rated in the FIDE October 2004 list the rating floor I think may have dropped to 1600.

Kevin Bonham
18-02-2004, 01:16 AM
Actually by the time the Masters will be played and rated in the FIDE October 2004 list the rating floor I think may have dropped to 1600.

Already? That will certainly make it easier, provided they have enough with existing FIDE ratings. How many FIDE rated players do you need to play to get a FIDE rating?

jenni
18-02-2004, 07:59 AM
Already? That will certainly make it easier, provided they have enough with existing FIDE ratings. How many FIDE rated players do you need to play to get a FIDE rating?
You have to play 9 FIDE rated players and at least 4 per tournament, for FIDE to keep a history. This is known as a block (or is it bloc?). You also lose a bloc after a year and start again.

e.g. if you play 7 FIDE rated players in 1 tournament, you still need to play 4 in the next, in order for them to accumulate the games. Once you have your rating, that proviso disappears.

Oepty
18-02-2004, 10:27 AM
The regulations for round robin tournaments are different. For a round robin tournament I believe believe at least 1/3 of the players must have a FIDE rating. So for a 10 player round robin the requirement is 4 players. For tournaments with less than 10 players then there must be 4 players. I believe if there are no forfiets and every player gets at least a 1/2 a point then everyone can get a FIDE rating provided there performance merits it.
Jenni is correct with the rules regarding other tournaments.
Scott

firegoat7
18-02-2004, 12:22 PM
Thanks for the replies all pretty interesting.

Kerry I understand where your coming from. However you have to place your ideas in their correct context. A person without a FIDE rating cannot play (well, MCC are not going to let them) in the Australian Masters. This is why there is a preliminary to the qualifyer. People with a fide rating can play in the qualifyer directly, since they already have a FIDE rating. Besides playing in the preliminary gives people a chance to gain a FIDE rating.

Bill is this rumor about 1600 FIDE confirmed fact or just rumor? Do you have any links I could look at?

Kevin, If your not familiar with Bekkers site check out the Oceania link on the ACF webpage. He shows how FIDE events normally work in Oz.

Jenni my understanding is that Scott is correct about the FIDE rated block of players. There will be at least 4 FIDE rated players in this tournament.

Just to let everyone know there aint many spots available, first in first served. My understanding is that Michael Baron is already a confirmed FIDE rated entrant. Dragicevic and Bekker are also locked in, I think.

Yes it is also true that this is an attempt to give people a genuine opportunity to participate at the highest level of chess. Representing ideas that I have espoused about Australian championship qualification. I thought, This show that ideas can become reality. Furthermore, hopefully it will encourage players who are serious about their chess to aim for something achievable within a reasonable time frame.

Cheers FG7

Bill Gletsos
18-02-2004, 12:34 PM
Bill is this rumor about 1600 FIDE confirmed fact or just rumor? Do you have any links I could look at?
Its mentioned in the minutes of the Titles and Rating Committee Report for 29th October 2003.
Although the quality/english grammer of the report leaves something to be desired, it implies that they voted to lower the limit to 1601.

Kerry Stead
18-02-2004, 12:42 PM
You have to play 9 FIDE rated players and at least 4 per tournament, for FIDE to keep a history. This is known as a block (or is it bloc?). You also lose a bloc after a year and start again.

e.g. if you play 7 FIDE rated players in 1 tournament, you still need to play 4 in the next, in order for them to accumulate the games. Once you have your rating, that proviso disappears.

I thought the rules about expiring of past blocks were removed? IIRC Michael Lip got his FIDE rating recently based on a block from the 2003 Australian Open and a World or Asian junior from a number of years ago.
I know they removed the time restriction on Title Norms, so it would makes some sense to have also removed the time restrictions for rating blocks for unrateds.
Also what Jenni means with the proviso disappearing is that for games to be rated once you have a rating, they do not have to be in blocks of 4 games or more. ie: games are rated one at a time, so it doesn't matter whether you play 1 or 11 FIDE rated opponents in a FIDE rated tournament, all games get rated once you have a rating.


The regulations for round robin tournaments are different. For a round robin tournament I believe believe at least 1/3 of the players must have a FIDE rating. So for a 10 player round robin the requirement is 4 players. For tournaments with less than 10 players then there must be 4 players. I believe if there are no forfiets and every player gets at least a 1/2 a point then everyone can get a FIDE rating provided there performance merits it.
Jenni is correct with the rules regarding other tournaments.
Scott

Scott is pretty much correct with what he says, with minimum 4 FIDE rateds for the tournament, and 1/3 of field needing to be FIDE rated.
How the rating calculation works for round robins is a little different to the standard method of using performance ratings. Basically the tournament is given an average rating based on how the unrateds have scored as a group in the tournament. This is then used to calculate performance ratings for players in the tournament, with unrateds scoring 50% or less getting a block at their performance rating, while if they score over 50% they get the tournament average + 12.5 points per 1/2 point over 50% they have scored.

Bill Gletsos
18-02-2004, 12:58 PM
Also what Jenni means with the proviso disappearing is that for games to be rated once you have a rating, they do not have to be in blocks of 4 games or more. ie: games are rated one at a time, so it doesn't matter whether you play 1 or 11 FIDE rated opponents in a FIDE rated tournament, all games get rated once you have a rating.
Thats not entirely correct. Once you have a rating your results in future tournaments count irrespective of the number of games you play in that tournament. The games are not however individually rated. The change in your rating is based on the average rating of your opponents. FIDE have a plan to implement rating changes based on individual games by 1st July 2005 but they have made no progress in this regards according to the latest minutes of the Tiltes and Ratings Committee Report.

firegoat7
18-02-2004, 01:10 PM
By the way for anybody who does not know the Australian Masters is one of Australia's premium chess events. This year that proud condition will continue with sponsorship already secured. IM norms will be available as per every year. A visit to Gary Bekkers oceania site at http://www.auschess.org.au/oceania/index.htm should give everyone an idea of what to expect.

Regards FG7

P.S The event is being run by Melbourne Chess Club not last years organisers.

Kerry Stead
18-02-2004, 04:32 PM
Sorry firegoat7, didn't realise you did meant this only in regards to FIDE unrated players. Suppose it makes some sense then, albeit as I said a little gruelling.
Are there any players on the ACF list who you could justifyably include in an Australian Masters that DON'T already have a FIDE rating however?

jenni
18-02-2004, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the replies all pretty interesting.


Jenni my understanding is that Scott is correct about the FIDE rated block of players. There will be at least 4 FIDE rated players in this tournament.




Yep - I always forget about round robins as my experience has been with FIDE swiss tournaments.

jenni
18-02-2004, 05:31 PM
I thought the rules about expiring of past blocks were removed? IIRC Michael Lip got his FIDE rating recently based on a block from the 2003 Australian Open and a World or Asian junior from a number of years ago.


Hadn't heard that - will make it much easier to get a FIDE if that is true. Michael's World Youth was 1998, (Open under 16), so that is certainly going back awhile.

firegoat7
19-02-2004, 01:34 PM
I suppose Kerry any junior who has a bit of talent, but still green could fall into the category of an unrated player. I myself,Kalisch,Fletcher etc older players without a FIDE rating who can occassionaly upset IMs. Players like myself would play to get a FIDE rating rather then worry about winning. The thing was previously when we had FIDE rated events they never progressed anywhere, they were just one of events. We thought we could kill two birds with the one stone.

Regards FG7

ChessGuru
26-02-2004, 04:12 PM
Surely Goat the only way you upset IM's is here on the BB?

Do you have any information on players who are likely to play in the Aus Masters? What are people fighting to qualify for? I think players would certainly be more likely to enter if they knew who they might end up playing in the acutal Masters ... after their 22 qualifying games...

firegoat7
26-02-2004, 07:40 PM
Dear Chessguru,


Thanks for your pointless criticism, it makes no sense like most things you do.

Cheers FG7

P.S still tucked in with Jammo?

Garvinator
26-02-2004, 10:08 PM
Do you have any information on players who are likely to play in the Aus Masters? What are people fighting to qualify for? I think players would certainly be more likely to enter if they knew who they might end up playing in the acutal Masters ... after their 22 qualifying games...
sorry firegoat, but i thought this question was rather reasonable.

ChessGuru
26-02-2004, 10:11 PM
It's OK gg..i didn't expect an answer. Especially after my little dig...i thought it quite funny, but the goat isn't really a goat...he is just a kid and can't take a joke. :)

firegoat7
27-02-2004, 12:16 AM
Actually Hoodooguru'

if you bothered to read the thread you would realise that your questions are pointless. They have already been answered.

Regards FG7

P.S Do you still ride trams the same way you did when you went to high school all those years ago?

samspade
27-02-2004, 10:57 PM
[QUOTE=ChessGuru]Surely Goat the only way you upset IM's is here on the BB?
QUOTE]

ouch. That must have hurt.:owned:

firegoat7
03-03-2004, 10:22 PM
This tournament starts on Sunday the 14th of March. Not many days left. there are 7 confirmed players including Michael Baron FM. all enquires can be directed to Greg Gatto at MCC on 94163149 between 4pm and 11pm or Malcolm Pyke at dexter@labyrinth.net.au or Ph 0408150196

Cheers
FG7

WBA
15-03-2004, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=ChessGuru]Surely Goat the only way you upset IM's is here on the BB?
QUOTE]

ouch. That must have hurt.

Lessons 101 on bulletin board flaming

Try not to make a stupid typo when bagging a fellow poster, especially a typo involving tags..... Still smiling and dancing there son??

Kevin Bonham
15-03-2004, 10:11 PM
Lessons 101 on bulletin board flaming

Try not to make a stupid typo when bagging a fellow poster, especially a typo involving tags..... Still smiling and dancing there son??

Actually samspade's post, ineptly tagged as it was, was more an inane commentary on someone else's flame than an actual flame itself.

WBA
17-03-2004, 05:36 PM
Now look here Kevin who is writing this manual, me or you??

I get to make the rules :lol:

For the record the smiley he posted makes it a flame in my view but either way he failed to pull it off

jase
10-05-2004, 02:56 AM
Does the MCC have some idea of how this year's Australian Masters will be run? Expected Category, how the requisite number of overseas players will be attracted, and other such organisational matters?

I only ask because an American FM with a +2300 FIDE rating contacted me in April about coming to Australia and playing in a good tournament or two whilst he was here. I recommended the Australian Masters to him and provided all the necessary contact information.

Three weeks later he is still trying to elicit a response from the MCC.

Bill Gletsos
23-05-2004, 11:52 PM
I note that neither this tournament nor the Anzac day weekender at the MCC has been submitted for rating. I suggest you MCC guys get your fingers out and get the files to Milic ASAP if you want them rated.