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qpawn
28-03-2006, 06:23 PM
This endagme is according t0o Fritz a dead easy win for white.

But then I got the computer to play it and it could only draw it!! :eek:

8/8/8/r7/5Pk1/4R1P1/5K2/8 b - - 0 57

wHITE HAS JUST moved the rook to its spot. So it is black to move.

Lucena
28-03-2006, 07:02 PM
I'm thinking this looks like one of those blockading draws where the two pawns can't advance because the enemy king position is so strong, eg here Ra2+ Kf1 (Re2 Ra3=) Rb2. Maybe Fritz thinks it's a win because it's 2 pawns up and sees that it can stay 2 pawns up with best play.

Henza
06-05-2006, 01:01 PM
the only way i can see something happening for white..is to get the white rook to h4 or h5...after the king loses his position..(1 or 2 infront of pawns), just move up king, using the pawns as defense...gradually pushing up the pawns...and possibily..mate with rook and king since black king has to stay somewhere near back rank to stop promotion

MichaelBaron
06-05-2006, 01:21 PM
White can sacrifive the g pawn to cut off the black king. Should be a win for white.
e.g. Ke3-e4 at some stage, and ufter Kxg3 Rg8+

EZBeet
14-07-2006, 10:52 AM
Looks to me like black draws because after ...Ra2+ the white king must drop back to it's first rank. This gives black what Nimzovitch called "the 7th rank absolute" which means he has a rook on the 7th confining the enemy king.

Rhubarb
14-07-2006, 10:58 AM
White can sacrifive the g pawn to cut off the black king. Should be a win for white.
e.g. Ke3-e4 at some stage, and ufter Kxg3 Rg8+Yes, but White can't achieve that in this exact position.

1...Ra2+ 2.Re2 Ra3 and if say 3.Re8 Rf3+!

Igor_Goldenberg
18-07-2006, 03:27 PM
Yes, but White can't achieve that in this exact position.

1...Ra2+ 2.Re2 Ra3 and if say 3.Re8 Rf3+!

Yes, it's a draw

Sutek
18-07-2006, 04:41 PM
The position is definitely a draw.
Well I did have some help from the 6 piece tablebases :)

If anyone is interested out of the 17 legal moves for black there are actually 8 that draw!

qpawn
18-07-2006, 10:57 PM
Could you list those 8 moves? And where do you get hold of an endgame tablebase? Fritz doesn't seem to come with one.

Thanks to everyone who had a look. It is the world of controversy, endless checks and dancing kings: the endgame :D

qpawn
18-07-2006, 10:59 PM
Suppose that it is white to move instead. Is it still a draw then ? :confused:

Sutek
19-07-2006, 06:29 AM
Could you list those 8 moves? And where do you get hold of an endgame tablebase? Fritz doesn't seem to come with one.

Thanks to everyone who had a look. It is the world of controversy, endless checks and dancing kings: the endgame :D

1. = (0.00): 1...Ra2+
2. = (0.00): 1...Ra4
3. = (0.00): 1...Ra1
4. = (0.00): 1...Rb5
5. = (0.00): 1...Rc5
6. = (0.00): 1...Ra6
7. = (0.00): 1...Ra7
8. = (0.00): 1...Ra8
9. +- (#31): 1...Rh5
10. +- (#31): 1...Kh3
11. +- (#29): 1...Kf5
12. +- (#27): 1...Rd5
13. +- (#24): 1...Rf5
14. +- (#17): 1...Kh5
15. +- (#10): 1...Rg5
16. +- (#9): 1...Ra3
17. +- (#3): 1...Re5

Fritz (depends on the version) comes with tablebases but not 6 piece.
But you can get a full set (Nalimov Tablebases) from..

Chess Assistant (Advanced Chess Data)
http://store.convekta.com/shop_model.asp?gid=121&sView=Catalog

or

Chessbase (Endgame Turbo)
http://www.chessbase.com/shop/productlist.asp?product=cp&subd=Fritz&user=&coin=

Sutek
19-07-2006, 06:33 AM
Suppose that it is white to move instead. Is it still a draw then ? :confused:

Yes it's still a draw.

1. = (0.00): 1.Ke2
2. = (0.00): 1.Rc3
3. = (0.00): 1.Rb3
4. = (0.00): 1.Rd3
5. = (0.00): 1.Re1
6. = (0.00): 1.Re4
7. = (0.00): 1.Re5
8. = (0.00): 1.Re6
9. = (0.00): 1.Re7
10. = (0.00): 1.Re8
11. = (0.00): 1.Ke1
12. = (0.00): 1.Re2
13. = (0.00): 1.Kf1
14. = (0.00): 1.Kg1
15. = (0.00): 1.Kg2
16. = (0.00): 1.f5
17. -+ (-#20): 1.Rf3
18. -+ (-#13): 1.Ra3

Desmond
19-07-2006, 08:36 AM
wHITE HAS JUST moved the rook to its spot. So it is black to move.Where was the rook before? Moving it to e3 probably threw away the win.

qpawn
20-07-2006, 04:14 PM
I might try to find out where I got the position from. I think that it was from one ofmy games but I am not sure.

Aaron Guthrie
20-07-2006, 06:50 PM
This site http://chess.jaet.org/endings/ has all 5 and some 6 men tablebases (including yours) which are able to be viewed on the site.

You can also generate the tablebases yourself, or download them, see http://www.aarontay.per.sg/Winboard/egtb.html for information on this.

qpawn
20-07-2006, 08:39 PM
I recall that my position was a random one that I bashed onto the board to get "endgame practice": hence it is hard to know exactly what the last move was!

I will have a look at those tablebase siites! :)

Davidovici
24-07-2006, 02:20 PM
This endagme is according t0o Fritz a dead easy win for white.

But then I got the computer to play it and it could only draw it!! :eek:

8/8/8/r7/5Pk1/4R1P1/5K2/8 b - - 0 57

wHITE HAS JUST moved the rook to its spot. So it is black to move.


Do you just check the white king and then if he blocks with the Rook you bring black's rook up to attack the pawn. That would then need to be defended with whites rook and then you could check the white King again?

Davidovici
24-07-2006, 02:21 PM
White can sacrifive the g pawn to cut off the black king. Should be a win for white.
e.g. Ke3-e4 at some stage, and ufter Kxg3 Rg8+
Can you give me a variation that wins for white?