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jase
15-02-2004, 11:56 PM
I was wondering if anyone has any statistics, or failing that, estimates, of the numbers of junior chess players in Australia, or even in any of the States?

I'm putting together a chess project at the moment and have been searching for things like numbers of adult players, juniors, numbers of wesite visits and/or hits, and have hit a brick wall on all of the above and more.

Regarding the acf website, I'd be interested to know how much traffic it attracts. I've pestered webmaster Paul B, however my inquiries have remained unanswered.

I've seen a figure bandied about that there are 10K juniors competing in NSW; I'm unsure of its accuracy or basis though.

Garvinator
16-02-2004, 12:00 AM
I was wondering if anyone has any statistics, or failing that, estimates, of the numbers of junior chess players in Australia, or even in any of the States?

I'm putting together a chess project at the moment and have been searching for things like numbers of adult players, juniors, numbers of wesite visits and/or hits, and have hit a brick wall on all of the above and more.

Regarding the acf website, I'd be interested to know how much traffic it attracts. I've pestered webmaster Paul B, however my inquiries have remained unanswered.

I've seen a figure bandied about that there are 10K juniors competing in NSW; I'm unsure of its accuracy or basis though.
on the caq site www.caq.org.au- 1539 junior players played rated games on the december rating list.

Kevin Bonham
16-02-2004, 12:28 AM
About 18 juniors are currently listed on the Tas ratings list but only 10 of those are rated. The annual Tasmanian Junior Championships are unrated and have been attracting about 40 players per year lately, although we are hoping to build on that.

ursogr8
16-02-2004, 06:59 AM
I was wondering if anyone has any statistics, or failing that, estimates, of the numbers of junior chess players in Australia, or even in any of the States?

I'm putting together a chess project at the moment and have been searching for things like numbers of adult players, juniors, numbers of wesite visits and/or hits, and have hit a brick wall on all of the above and more.

Regarding the acf website, I'd be interested to know how much traffic it attracts. I've pestered webmaster Paul B, however my inquiries have remained unanswered.

I've seen a figure bandied about that there are 10K juniors competing in NSW; I'm unsure of its accuracy or basis though.

jase
If anyone has figures then
>ChessGuru might; you may be better to PM him because he logs in infrequently here
>> Gary Wastell would know some figures, but is not registered here.
starter

jenni
16-02-2004, 07:57 AM
I was wondering if anyone has any statistics, or failing that, estimates, of the numbers of junior chess players in Australia, or even in any of the States?

I'm putting together a chess project at the moment and have been searching for things like numbers of adult players, juniors, numbers of wesite visits and/or hits, and have hit a brick wall on all of the above and more.

Regarding the acf website, I'd be interested to know how much traffic it attracts. I've pestered webmaster Paul B, however my inquiries have remained unanswered.

I've seen a figure bandied about that there are 10K juniors competing in NSW; I'm unsure of its accuracy or basis though.

I think you have to define what you mean by Juniors. Do you mean those playing rated games, those playing in the schools comps, or those with some exposure to chess?

e.g. in the ACT we had around 112 Juniors who played normal ACF rated games during 2003. We had around 1200 juniors who played in the schools comps and an unknown number who play in schools clubs. It varies of course - in some cases all the kids at a club will enter the schools comps, in other cases only the best 4 or 8 will be sent. I think you could guestimate that if 1200 played in the schools comps, at least 5,000 are playing chess in the schools.

NSW has around 10,000 play in its various schools events, from what I have heard.

jase
16-02-2004, 11:08 AM
I think you have to define what you mean by Juniors. Do you mean those playing rated games, those playing in the schools comps, or those with some exposure to chess?


The purpose of my inquiries is to be able to present to sponsors that a vast number of people are chess players. So my definition of juniors would cover any student who is competing in chess, be it on the rating list, in schools competitions, in chess classes, or in their school championship. It would be stretching the truth to include any student who happens to know the rules, I think.

For a body like the ACF [or State Associations, or even Junior Associations] to attract sponsorship, it would help their cause immensely if they could demonstrate how popular chess is. For example in the project I am putting together at the moment I mention how the official website for the last Chess Olympiad had 72 million hits.

I checked out the website of the Australian Championships held in Adelaide, and was surprised to see only 16,000 hits. I'd expect his sort of event to attract 100,000 hits - I think a big problem was that the site was not all that informative or easy to navigate. Would the ACF site's numbers be down now that the BB is hosted here?

arosar
16-02-2004, 11:18 AM
OK . . . let's talk a bit about these 'hits' you talk about. What do you mean exactly: unique users, visits, or page views?

When you say that you expected the Australian Champs website to have 100K hits or more - why such expectation?

AR

ps: Btw, anyone else interested in the how's, do's/don'ts of seeking sponsorships, check out the book, "Sponsorship Seeker's Toolkit".

ISBN 0074712217
Format PaperBack
Category Marketing
Publisher McGraw-Hill Education - Europe

Should be about $40

george
16-02-2004, 04:18 PM
Hi,

When I was asked the same question as to how many juniors play chess I said 25,000 although it may be closer to 20,000 than 25,000 but as 10,000 or so play in NSW perhaps 25K is not too far off the mark?!

George

paulb
16-02-2004, 05:03 PM
I was wondering if anyone has any statistics, or failing that, estimates, of the numbers of junior chess players in Australia, or even in any of the States?

I'm putting together a chess project at the moment and have been searching for things like numbers of adult players, juniors, numbers of wesite visits and/or hits, and have hit a brick wall on all of the above and more.

Regarding the acf website, I'd be interested to know how much traffic it attracts. I've pestered webmaster Paul B, however my inquiries have remained unanswered.

I've seen a figure bandied about that there are 10K juniors competing in NSW; I'm unsure of its accuracy or basis though.

Sorry, was meaning to get back to you.

I don't have recent figures for the website. In the past, I've used a variety of free services to get statistics, but these by and large are no longer operative. My recollection is that the ACF homepage used to average 200-500 unique visitors a day, depending on whether anything was on. The number of "hits" is misleading, as I understand it, because (eg) playing through a game in Palview involves many "hits" for downloading the pieces.

The BB would have been one of the most popular pages, of course, but the 200-500 figure didn't include BB hits. (also popular is the columns page, since a number of external sites link to it).

The situation is further complicated by the fact that, until fairly recently, the homepage of the ACF site was a "frames" page involving multiple files, some of which were not hosted on www.auschess.org.au.

All of which is as clear as muddy water in a beer bottle, I know ...

Meanwhile, I've noticed that there is a kind of stats service on the auschess server, but I don't know how to access it yet.

Also, should mention that the ACF email Bulletin has just signed up its 1000th subscriber.

skip to my lou
16-02-2004, 05:15 PM
Sorry, was meaning to get back to you.

I don't have recent figures for the website. In the past, I've used a variety of free services to get statistics, but these by and large are no longer operative. My recollection is that the ACF homepage used to average 200-500 unique visitors a day, depending on whether anything was on. The number of "hits" is misleading, as I understand it, because (eg) playing through a game in Palview involves many "hits" for downloading the pieces.

The BB would have been one of the most popular pages, of course, but the 200-500 figure didn't include BB hits. (also popular is the columns page, since a number of external sites link to it).

The situation is further complicated by the fact that, until fairly recently, the homepage of the ACF site was a "frames" page involving multiple files, some of which were not hosted on www.auschess.org.au.

All of which is as clear as muddy water in a beer bottle, I know ...

Meanwhile, I've noticed that there is a kind of stats service on the auschess server, but I don't know how to access it yet.
Best way is to download logs and use a program such as webtrends to analyse it.

My log program has following included:

hits (actual PAGE hits)
files (anything going outbound including images flash pages etc)
unique hits (unique IP addresses)

hits and unique visitors should be used as a combination to see how your site actually works.

Say you had 1000 unique visitors and exactly 1000 hits, that means the 1000 people that came to your site went no further, they just closed the page after opening it.

Now chesskit averages 5,000 unique visitors per day and 100,000 hits per day and millions of file views per day, which is about average. This is minus the forums. Generally you shouldn't count forum hits because people have to refresh to see new posts.

So on chesskit, on average, each visitor clicks through 20 pages before exiting.

The program can seperate pages from files going outbound by looking at the extension of the file sent, i.e "gif" for images "php" "html" "asp" for pages etc.

So hits are not meaningless. If they were, services wouldn't be reporting them ;)

skip to my lou
16-02-2004, 05:24 PM
Where you should disable hits because they are misleading:

-Live services (live games e.g live chess broadcasting through chessbase, cricinfo etc).
-Forums
-Homepages (where the user sets a page to homepage, when they access it through clicking home or loading a browser) You can start counting from the second click.

paulb
16-02-2004, 05:45 PM
Jeo

how, in general, do you download logs?

skip to my lou
16-02-2004, 05:58 PM
Server admin should be able to set location for access / error logs.

arosar
16-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Hey Jeo, after all the tips on improvement I gave you, I expect a lifetime free a/c on chesskit if you blokes decide to make it paid service.

AR

skip to my lou
16-02-2004, 06:15 PM
If I DO implement all those tips, I expect it will become a paid service sooner or later.

jase
16-02-2004, 09:19 PM
hits (actual PAGE hits)
files (anything going outbound including images flash pages etc)
unique hits (unique IP addresses)


Would have assumed you knew this arosar.




Now chesskit averages 5,000 unique visitors per day and 100,000 hits per day and millions of file views per day, which is about average. This is minus the forums. Generally you shouldn't count forum hits because people have to refresh to see new posts.


These strike me as very impressive figures, Jeo [although I'm not very familiar with the content of chesskit]. I would have expected this for the Australian Open website, over the course of the event. It's about what we got for QVB on Gary Bekker's site in 1999, and the number of users surfing the net is a little higher now.

If we have 30,000 chess players, and we can't get 5,000 unique visitors to the website, all is not well.

paulb
17-02-2004, 01:19 AM
If we have 30,000 chess players, and we can't get 5,000 unique visitors to the website, all is not well.

My impression is that people (including myself) have tended to exaggerate the level of "web penetration" not in the sense of "how many have access" but of "how many regularly surf the net for chess". A lot of people don't go online much, even though they've got access and they're fairly keen players. Also, following live games (eg) tends to sort the fans from the fanatics: many don't have the time or patience, even it's some Kasparov-Morozevich inspired bedlam.

Gary's figures are interesting though - what tournament was it, and how many were Aussies? Most? All?

paulb
17-02-2004, 01:23 AM
These strike me as very impressive figures, Jeo.
Me too - I'm jealous as hell. From chats with Jeo in the past he's indicated that a lot are from external links to the training section, and involve schools, which is in itself interesting.

Jeo - do you know how many visitors are Aussies etc?

firegoat7
17-02-2004, 05:09 AM
Dear Jase,


In Victoria chess is taught in about 220-250 schools at an average of about 50 kids per school. So your numbers should get a fair boost from that statistic which I think is a pretty conservative number.

Regards FG7

paulb
17-02-2004, 07:27 AM
The webalizer program is on the ACF site and yields these statistics for January:

ACF website Monthly Statistics for January 2004
Total Hits 769699
Total Files 334736
Total Pages 59741
Total Visits 22765
Total KBytes 1981669
Total Unique Sites 11710
Total Unique URLs 3808
Total Unique Referrers 1472
Total Unique User Agents 1339

. Avg Max
Hits per Hour 1034 19907
Hits per Day 24829 66141
Files per Day 10797 27215
Pages per Day 1927 4245
Visits per Day 734 890
KBytes per Day 63925 132143

skip to my lou
17-02-2004, 07:33 AM
From the top of my head, roughly:

50% from Europe
30% from US
10% from Aus

jase
17-02-2004, 10:43 AM
Thanks for those figures Paul.

The QVB Tournament was a 10 player Round Robin Category 10 GM tournament. The field, in finishing order, was:

Joel Benjamin [GM, USA]
Ian Rogers [GM, AUS]
Zhong Zhang [GM, CHN]
Tomas Oral [IM, CZR]
Alex Wohl [IM, AUS]
Darryl Johansen [GM, AUS]
Matthias Roeder [IM, GER]
Hafizul Mas [IM, MAS]
Stephen Solomon [IM, AUS]
Guy West [IM, AUS]

5 Australians, 5 overseas players, the most significant of which was of course Joel, as a US Champion and Deep Blue consultant.

Oepty
18-02-2004, 10:17 AM
A rough number of juniors in SA would be close to 2000.
Scott

Kevin Bonham
18-02-2004, 02:20 PM
So my definition of juniors would cover any student who is competing in chess, be it on the rating list, in schools competitions, in chess classes, or in their school championship. It would be stretching the truth to include any student who happens to know the rules, I think.

Including intra-school type events I think the total for Tas would be about 250 juniors. Not that we're of much consequence as our total is probably below the round-off error in the estimates for NSW and Vic.