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EGOR
17-02-2006, 08:48 AM
This article says that a player can writing down a move and them claim a draw, how is this reconciled with the new rule that forbids writing down moves in advance?
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, just point me in the right direction.:)

Rincewind
17-02-2006, 09:05 AM
This article says that a player can writing down a move and them claim a draw, how is this reconciled with the new rule that forbids writing down moves in advance?
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, just point me in the right direction.:)

It is an exception. I guess it only sort of is as if the claim is correct then the move is never played so you are not writing down the move before playing it. :)

EGOR
17-02-2006, 09:42 AM
It is an exception. I guess it only sort of is as if the claim is correct then the move is never played so you are not writing down the move before playing it. :)
Fair enough. So if the claim is not correct, there is no punishment for writing down a move before making it? Also, if the claim is not correct, does the player have to make the move as written down? Does the same exception apply for the claim under the 50 move draw rule?

Rincewind
17-02-2006, 09:55 AM
So if the claim is not correct, there is no punishment for writing down a move before making it? Also, if the claim is not correct, does the player have to make the move as written down?

These are very good questions. The answer to the first one must be no. If the player was following the procedure of the law I can see no reason for penalising them for that. Of course if the purpose of the claim was to distract the opponent or something then maybe some penalty might be applicable.

The second question I am not sure of and don't have the time right now to re-read the relevent laws but my initial impression is no. As the piece was not touched there is no obligation to make the move written. However, there might be something explicit in the rules that I can't remember. Anyone?

arosar
17-02-2006, 10:40 AM
9.5b is relevant here I think. It reads:

If the claim is found to be incorrect, the arbiter shall add three minutes to the opponent`s remaining time. Additionally, if the claimant has more than two minutes on his clock the arbiter shall deduct half of the claimant`s remaining time up to a maximum of three minutes. If the claimant has more than one minute, but less than two minutes, his remaining time shall be one minute. If the claimant has less than one minute, the arbiter shall make no adjustment to the claimant`s clock. Then the game shall continue and the intended move must be made.

In any case, I should add that I agree with Ignacio Dee. This new 8.1 rule diminishes the drama from the game.

AR

Rincewind
17-02-2006, 11:09 AM
Then the game shall continue and the intended move must be made.


Thanks arosar, I thought there might be such a stipulation.

EGOR
17-02-2006, 11:29 AM
9.5b is relevant here I think. It reads:

If the claim is found to be incorrect, the arbiter shall add three minutes to the opponent`s remaining time. Additionally, if the claimant has more than two minutes on his clock the arbiter shall deduct half of the claimant`s remaining time up to a maximum of three minutes. If the claimant has more than one minute, but less than two minutes, his remaining time shall be one minute. If the claimant has less than one minute, the arbiter shall make no adjustment to the claimant`s clock. Then the game shall continue and the intended move must be made.
AR
It pays to read all the relivent clauses in an article doesn't it. Why is there a penalty foe an incorrect claim? To deter abuse of the rule?

Kevin Bonham
17-02-2006, 12:17 PM
It pays to read all the relivent clauses in an article doesn't it. Why is there a penalty foe an incorrect claim? To deter abuse of the rule?

Yes. Some players may make incorrect claims to disrupt the opponent's concentration. Extra time gives the opponent time to re-focus. The time deduction for the claimant is to deter incorrect claims.

I had one case with juniors where the claim was incorrect but the opponent was such a pest while the claim was being assessed that both players wound up penalised - I gave the opponent his three minutes and then deducted five.

EGOR
17-02-2006, 12:22 PM
If the Arbiter felt that the claiment was sincere, but mistaken, in their claim could he/she choose not to impose the penalty?

Rincewind
17-02-2006, 12:24 PM
If the Arbiter felt that the claiment was sincere, but mistaken, in their claim could he/she choose not to impose the penalty?

I think it would require more extenuating circumstances than just sincerity for an arbiter to not apply a penalty prescribed explicitly by the laws.

EGOR
17-02-2006, 12:26 PM
I think it would require more extenuating circumstances than just sincerity for an arbiter to not apply a penalty prescribed explicitly by the laws.
Fair enough.:)

EGOR
17-02-2006, 12:35 PM
I had one case with juniors where the claim was incorrect but the opponent was such a pest while the claim was being assessed that both players wound up penalised - I gave the opponent his three minutes and then deducted five.
That's funny!:lol:

Kevin Bonham
17-02-2006, 12:57 PM
I had an incorrect triple rep claim made against me in one of my first tournaments. I was floundering about with Q+6P vs Q+3P and my opponent at one stage got a triple rep but claimed on the wrong move. Not only did he cop a penalty but in the ten mins or so it took the arbiters to assess the position I worked out how to win it. :owned:

EGOR
17-02-2006, 12:58 PM
I had an incorrect triple rep claim made against me in one of my first tournaments. I was floundering about with Q+6P vs Q+3P and my opponent at one stage got a triple rep but claimed on the wrong move. Not only did he cop a penalty but in the ten mins or so it took the arbiters to assess the position I worked out how to win it. :owned:
That is even funnier! :lol: :lol:

Igor_Goldenberg
20-02-2006, 03:43 PM
Yes. Some players may make incorrect claims to disrupt the opponent's concentration. Extra time gives the opponent time to re-focus. The time deduction for the claimant is to deter incorrect claims.

I had one case with juniors where the claim was incorrect but the opponent was such a pest while the claim was being assessed that both players wound up penalised - I gave the opponent his three minutes and then deducted five.

Is there any law that allow arbiter to voluntary deduct time at will?

Rincewind
20-02-2006, 03:50 PM
Is there any law that allow arbiter to voluntary deduct time at will?

Yes. 13.4 (c).

At will might be too strong a term but Article 13.4 reads...

13.4

The arbiter can apply one or more of the following penalties:
.
.
.
c. reducing the remaining time of the offending player,
.
.
.

Igor_Goldenberg
20-02-2006, 04:44 PM
This article says that a player can writing down a move and them claim a draw, how is this reconciled with the new rule that forbids writing down moves in advance?
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, just point me in the right direction.:)

Relevant part of article 8.1 italised:

Article 8: The recording of the moves

8.1 In the course of play each player is required to record his own moves and those of his opponent in the correct manner, move after move, as clearly and legibly as possible, in the algebraic notation (Appendix E), on the `scoresheet` prescribed for the competition. It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2 or 9.3

Kevin Bonham
20-02-2006, 05:19 PM
In the case I mentioned above I did give a warning first!