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qpawn
05-02-2006, 09:51 AM
You know Australian politics sucks when:

Howard introduces IR laws that let employers force their workers to work on Australia day. That is an absolute disgrace - workers are not permitted 1 day in 365 to celebrate their own country's national holiday. I am not much of a patriot; but I am to that extent.

Kim Beazley is such a gutless wonder that he doesn't even ATTEMPT to attack Howard about workers being forced to work on Jan 26. Any opposition leader with any cajones at all ought to have ROASTED Howard over that issue.

Now we have this wheat board scandal. Howard, Downer et al will get away with it. Just as they got away with weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, children overboard etc. After all, in Howard's Australia all that matters is me, myself, I and my Telstra share price; nobody cares anymore about scandals, morals or political culpability. And if Howard thinks that anyone is starting to care he can always trundle out the next election bribe. Last time it was a baby bonus. What will it be this time round? Let me think. I know. A breathing bonus; if you breathe air you get a tax rebate. That will get the suckers' votes.

bergil
05-02-2006, 11:04 AM
You know Australian politics sucks when:

Howard introduces IR laws that let employers force their workers to work on Australia day. That is an absolute disgrace - workers are not permitted 1 day in 365 to celebrate their own country's national holiday. I am not much of a patriot; but I am to that extent.

Kim Beazley is such a gutless wonder that he doesn't even ATTEMPT to attack Howard about workers being forced to work on Jan 26. Any opposition leader with any cajones at all ought to have ROASTED Howard over that issue.

Now we have this wheat board scandal. Howard, Downer et al will get away with it. Just as they got away with weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, children overboard etc. After all, in Howard's Australia all that matters is me, myself, I and my Telstra share price; nobody cares anymore about scandals, morals or political culpability. And if Howard thinks that anyone is starting to care he can always trundle out the next election bribe. Last time it was a baby bonus. What will it be this time round? Let me think. I know. A breathing bonus; if you breathe air you get a tax rebate. That will get the suckers' votes.
Here's your choices convince as many people as possible to vote Green :rolleyes: ,go with the gutless eunuch :confused:, praise the messiah for turning us into an American state :wall: or bend over and take it in the rump. :doh:

Not great choices but this a democracy not utopia.

eclectic
05-02-2006, 11:11 AM
yeah ...

these lovely new ir laws

don't you just love watching parliament on late night tv ...

and seeing those empty benches ????

bergil
05-02-2006, 11:23 AM
yeah ...

these lovely new ir laws

don't you just love watching parliament on late night tv ...

and seeing those empty benches ????
If ever you wanted a terrorist to blow something up it would be parliment. Not doubt closer to the election John Howard will have such a scenario occur only to be thwarted so he can win the election by fear once again and then introduced his police state laws. :hmm:

Davidflude
05-02-2006, 12:59 PM
Telstra is about to increase yet again the amount it charges other people to use its landlines. Up go your telephone and broadband bills. Watch The rodent do nothing.

As for Beazley he is asleep at the wheel.

I think that the French rule applies. Never trust any politician who does not have a high class mistress or preferably two of them.

I cannot imagine either of the two above having a fancy woman.

qpawn
05-02-2006, 01:54 PM
The only thing that John Howard ever did that I agreed with was the gun law reform brought in after the Port Arthur tragedy in 1996. It would be simplistic to say that Howard was just jumping on a populist bandwagon; there was opposition from shooter groups that could have had some difference in marginal seats. At that point I felt proud of the Australian political system for reducing gun ownership in ways that will never occur in the US.

But after that point it has been all downhill in Howard's Australia IMO.

In the last election Howard would have won even if he had become a Dalek for the campaign; Latham was a greenhorn who threw the senate away in Tasmania in the last week. Also, in that election whoever the Labor political strategists were should be shot. They missed the action. Since the democrats heped pass the GST, and became an infighting rabble, their senate vote was going to vanish and flow to someone else. The liberals realised this and had their eye on the senate since then. The Labor strategists were so ignorant of this se nate flow on that they may as well have been four year olds.

Davidflude
05-02-2006, 02:16 PM
The last poster was unfair to four year olds.

qpawn
05-02-2006, 04:05 PM
My comment on four year olds was merely one of comparative political understanding. I was making no comment intended to be critical of four year olds in other respects.

DON'T WATERBOMB ME. I DIDN'T MEAN IT...I KNOW THAT BEING FOUR IS A GREat AGE.

SPALASSSSSSSH!~
DRIP DROP!

Those 4 year olds from next door are not only easily offended but also highly accurate with a water bomb.

:)

Kevin Bonham
06-02-2006, 07:17 PM
After all, in Howard's Australia all that matters is me, myself, I and my Telstra share price; nobody cares anymore about scandals, morals or political culpability.

Actually if people in Australia were just self-interested then there is no way they would allow a government which allows employers to force employees to work on Australia Day. And as for caring about morals we have had far too much of that, albeit very inconsistently applied, from the present regime. So I don't think blaming our present political woes on selfishness vs broader issues is accurate. It's more to do with people being aspirationally rather than defensively self-interested, and with being moralistically rather than materially concerned about others, but even that is oversimplifying it.

PHAT
07-02-2006, 07:28 AM
It's more to do with people being aspirationally rather than defensively self-interested,

There is not much of a difference. The first wants what they do not have, while thye second wants to keep what they already have. Both are intergral to the "me too" mind set.

Kevin Bonham
07-02-2006, 12:11 PM
There is not much of a difference. The first wants what they do not have, while thye second wants to keep what they already have. Both are intergral to the "me too" mind set.

I should have defined what I meant by "defensive" more carefully - perhaps a better word would have been more appropriate. I mean a version of self-interest in which one is concerned with protecting oneself from really bad outcomes - this leads to, for instance, support for a good safety net. Defensive self-interest can be an issue where people have got themselves into potentially untenable situations which they then insist on hanging onto - eg interest rates.

Davidflude
07-02-2006, 02:44 PM
I watched parlimentary question time today. Beazley looked very limp wristed. Then the member for Griffith started on Vaile. I think that the opposition has identified the weak link.

Will he stand up to a forensic inch by inch attack? I suspect that the opposition has more shots in the locker and will gradually up the pressure hoping to catch Vaile out.

qpawn
07-02-2006, 03:06 PM
I didn't get to see the parliamentary session.

Yeah, I hope that Beazley proved me wrong by going on an attack over the AWB scandal.

There are three possible types of government culpability: criminal, the hardest to prove, political, having administrated or seen the bribes, and economic, having let a scandal happen that isn't doing any trade relations with the US or anyone ese any good.

I find it hard to see how the government is innocent of all 3 types: there is economic culpability at the very least.

arosar
07-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Some lobbyist in the USA is calling for some sort of action against the Aus government. Well, I say, if they pull that kind of stunt - let's pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

AR

pballard
07-02-2006, 05:16 PM
Returning to the original comment...


You know Australian politics sucks when:

Howard introduces IR laws that let employers force their workers to work on Australia day. That is an absolute disgrace - workers are not permitted 1 day in 365 to celebrate their own country's national holiday. I am not much of a patriot; but I am to that extent.

Kim Beazley is such a gutless wonder that he doesn't even ATTEMPT to attack Howard about workers being forced to work on Jan 26. Any opposition leader with any cajones at all ought to have ROASTED Howard over that issue.


Hey credit where credit's due: Labor went pretty hard at the IR legislation last year. Australia Day is a poor excuse for a national day and I think there will be better occasions for Beazley to make a point about the IR legislation.

Steve K
07-02-2006, 06:39 PM
Returning to the original comment...



Hey credit where credit's due: Labor went pretty hard at the IR legislation last year. Australia Day is a poor excuse for a national day and I think there will be better occasions for Beazley to make a point about the IR legislation.

Yes, but Howard is the one who continually makes out that he is the most patriotic Australian that's ever lived. I don't believe him for one minute when he comes out with that sort of crap but that's his standard line. So why not expose him for the liar and hypocrite that he is?

When I heard a discussion on radio this morning about Howard's call on Australia Day eve this year for there to be a greater emphasis on teaching Australian history in our schools and universities and that he bemoans the fact that fewer students elect to study history I had to laugh. Howard and his mates have done every thing they can to devalue any form of study in this country that doesn't have a massive $ symbol attached. If it doesn't make you money why bother? If it costs money then don't bother unless you can get someone else to pay for it.

I say attack the so and so over the IR/working on Australia Day issue if only to expose him for the shallow capitalist that he is.

PHAT
08-02-2006, 07:34 AM
Australia Day is a poor excuse for a national day ...

Bloom's Day would be better.

Phil Bourke
08-02-2006, 08:15 AM
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have noticed some disconcerting "facts" coming from the AWB enquiry.
That the deals with Alia Transporting were being set in place before the AWB was formed and that the AWB continued these deals, only trying to ensure that they were done in such a manner that they couldn't be traced back to them!
Now, the US is trying to have Aus overseas sales sanctioned, and is Johnny Howard on the phone to his good mate George trying to have this threat quelled, not on your life, Downer has been left with this baby, and he is talking to American Ambassadors. So much for the valuable Aus support that Bush and Howard have spoken of in Iraq and Afghanistan etc.
This one smacks of the old backroom deals coming to light, and everyone is now ducking for cover so that they don't get caught in the crossfire.
I apologise if I have misinterpreted any of the information that I have recieved, but politics doesn't interest me at all. Note, I do live in the electorate of Calare, we got tired of the political parties 3 elections ago and sent them the best message we could, an independant!

qpawn
08-02-2006, 08:44 AM
I can't blame you for not being interested in politics. Terms bandied around by Howard and others like "non-core promise" and "unaustralian" are enough to drive anyone to drink.

Spiny Norman
08-02-2006, 09:10 AM
This AWB thing stinks to high heaven. It may be the Lib's Waterloo. Remember the Khemlani loans scandal in the 70s? That stink didn't go away either and highlighted just how incompetent certain aspects of he Whitlam government was. Ditto here. Someone has seriously dropped the ball.

McTaggart
08-02-2006, 04:19 PM
At last we something that we agree on Frosty! Yes, I remember the Khemlani Affair very well and I was absolutely appalled then and I amazed now that we are expected to swallow once more the complete bilge that is emanating from Parliament.. We are being taken as mugs and I hate that,I know Fludey won't like me saying this but please send us another Keating! You may not have liked his style but by jiminey, you always knew where you stood with him. Compared to what we have expierenced these last few years,he is starting to look very good.......

Spiny Norman
08-02-2006, 04:27 PM
At last we something that we agree on Frosty!
Amazing isn't it! See! I'm not ALL bad! ;)

Garvinator
08-02-2006, 05:05 PM
The general Australian electorate have been taken for mugs for almost all the entire time of Australian Federation.

I think one of the main problems is that we have about six different parties trying to masquerade as two different 'parties' ie the Coalition and Labor.

On the AWB scandal, it wont make any difference to the Coalition's re-election chances. The last election proved this with John Howard running on interest rates etc. The last election proved that most of the Australian electorate can handle being outrightly lied to as long as they think it wont affect their home loans and interest rates.

McTaggart
09-02-2006, 10:56 PM
I can't blame you for not being interested in politics. Terms bandied around by Howard and others like "non-core promise" and "unaustralian" are enough to drive anyone to drink.


More than that qpawn, it indicates a deep contempt for the Australian public. What I would like to hear/read is a rational justification from a Liberal voter for the behavior of the current Govt. and then square that with their ability to keep voting the bastards back in!

Davidflude
10-02-2006, 08:39 AM
At last we something that we agree on Frosty! Yes, I remember the Khemlani Affair very well and I was absolutely appalled then and I amazed now that we are expected to swallow once more the complete bilge that is emanating from Parliament.. We are being taken as mugs and I hate that,I know Fludey won't like me saying this but please send us another Keating! You may not have liked his style but by jiminey, you always knew where you stood with him. Compared to what we have expierenced these last few years,he is starting to look very good.......

I posted some time ago on another newgroup that maybe Labor should bring back the clock collector. He would give the hell in question time.

P.S. It is Fludy not Fludey according to correct Aussie usage.

Davidflude
10-02-2006, 03:35 PM
Morgan/Gallop poll


ALP Primary Support Rises 4% As AWB Revelations Bite - If Election Held Today 52.5% ALP, 47.5% L-NP
Finding No. 3975 - February 10, 2006

In early February, as the Cole Royal Commission into AWB Ltd.’s grain deals with Iraq entered its third week of public hearings, primary support for the L-NP Government fell 1.5% to 40.5% - 5.9% below the result at the October 2004 Federal election. Primary support for the ALP was up 4% to 42% - 4.4% higher than their result at the 2004 Federal election. Had a Federal election been held in early February, the ALP would have won.

If preferences of minor parties are allocated as they were at the 2004 Federal election (ALP — 60.5%, L-NP — 39.5%) the ‘two-party’ preferred vote would be ALP — 52.5% and L-NP — 47.5%.

Among the minor parties, support for The Greens was 8% (down 0.5%), Australian Democrats 1.5% (down 0.5%), Family First 2% (down 0.5%), One Nation 1% (unchanged) and Other Parties and Independent Candidates 5% (down 1%).

pballard
10-02-2006, 04:15 PM
If preferences of minor parties are allocated as they were at the 2004 Federal election (ALP — 60.5%, L-NP — 39.5%) the ‘two-party’ preferred vote would be ALP — 52.5% and L-NP — 47.5%.


That, of course, does not necessarily mean the ALP would have won a majority of seats.

Southpaw Jim
10-02-2006, 06:02 PM
I missed the Khelmani affair, I was in nappies at the time. I was under the impression that Whitlam/Cabinet were taken for a ride rather than being complicit in the affair, but as I say - I wasn't taking things in then.

Aussie politics hasn't been the same since Keating departed. Love him or hate him, everyone had an opinion on him. Australian politics nowadays has a rather bland flavour by comparison to then, kinda like 'mild' instant coffee. These days it's all backsliding, sidestepping and using non-language :(

PHAT
10-02-2006, 09:52 PM
I missed the Khelmani affair,
I remember. It was a beat up.


Aussie politics hasn't been the same since Keating departed. Love him or hate him, everyone had an opinion on him.
Keating cann go stew in his own juice. Deadshit #1. Actually #2 cuz Jock Coward is #1.


These days it's all backsliding, sidestepping and using non-language :(
Except for Latham. What a pity he was too real.