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Capablanca-Fan
30-05-2021, 02:10 PM
Get the millions of Zionists robbers off their land and the problem will no longer exist. Their legally acquired land is right across Europe.

Israel is here to stay—the Jewish homeland for 3,000 years, long before the ancestral countries of the modern European states existed. Also long before any Arabs settled there.

Israel also exists because of what happened when the Jews were all across Europe: they were driven from their legally acquired land and slaughtered by the millions. Israel says: never again!

Capablanca-Fan
30-05-2021, 02:11 PM
Most political debates on Chess Chat follow the same pattern. Firstly right-wingers make ridiculous unsupported claims. Left-wingers then refute the nonsense with obvious facts.

Not possible, because leftists don't care about facts.

Ian Murray
30-05-2021, 02:23 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant
You can pick where you want to start reading the covenant...Article 13 for instance...

You claimed: "Hamas and co are making it clear, they want complete destruction of Israel and to ''kill all the jews'' " Present tense means happening now - citing the 33 year old charter doesn't cut it.


... In his 2007 Los Angeles Times op-ed, [Hamas’s deputy politburo chief] Abu Marzouk struck a conciliatory tone regarding Hamas’s charter, referring to it as a revolutionary document that must be looked at in the context of the time when it was written. “If every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents or the ideas of its progenitors, there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides,” he penned.* While Marzouk’s statement does not entirely annul the charter, it suggests the possibility of a pragmatic path toward moderation in which Hamas is not bound by inflexible dogma. ...
https://www.counterextremism.com/threat/hamas

Hamas is ready to talk (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/16/israel.foreignpolicyhttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/16/israel.foreignpolicy)
Mousa Abu Marzook

MichaelBaron
30-05-2021, 03:57 PM
You claimed: "Hamas and co are making it clear, they want complete destruction of Israel and to ''kill all the jews'' " Present tense means happening now - citing the 33 year old charter doesn't cut it.


... In his 2007 Los Angeles Times op-ed, [Hamas’s deputy politburo chief] Abu Marzouk struck a conciliatory tone regarding Hamas’s charter, referring to it as a revolutionary document that must be looked at in the context of the time when it was written. “If every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents or the ideas of its progenitors, there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides,” he penned.* While Marzouk’s statement does not entirely annul the charter, it suggests the possibility of a pragmatic path toward moderation in which Hamas is not bound by inflexible dogma. ...
https://www.counterextremism.com/threat/hamas

Hamas is ready to talk (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/16/israel.foreignpolicyhttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/16/israel.foreignpolicy)
Mousa Abu Marzook

They are making all kind of statements from time to time. But it is clear that the calls to eliminate Israel continue..including from the current Hamas leaders!
eg. ''Senior Hamas leader and cofounder Mahmoud al-Zahar told supporters Sunday that the terrorist group's commitment to the destruction of Israel is nonnegotiable, promising to "hold a gun" to the Jewish state's head as "every inch" of the land belongs to Palestine.

"Every single inch of Palestine is just ours. Palestine is not just Gaza and the West Bank; it extends from the River to the Sea," al-Zahar said during a festival in the Gaza Strip to mark the 29th anniversary of Hamas' founding, according to the Arabic outlet Al-Resalah.

Al-Zahar was referring to the creation of a Palestinian state stretching from the Jordan River in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west, an area within which the entire state of Israel is located.''

Ian Murray
30-05-2021, 04:45 PM
They are making all kind of statements from time to time. But it is clear that the calls to eliminate Israel continue..including from the current Hamas leaders!
eg. ''Senior Hamas leader and cofounder Mahmoud al-Zahar told supporters Sunday ' ...

That wasn't Sunday, that was in 2016 (https://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-leader-calls-israels-destruction-says-every-inch-belongs-palestine/). Since then Hamas has released a new policy document, tacitly recognising Israel and declaring a willingness to accept the 1967 border

A revised Hamas charter will moderate its stance toward Israel — slightly (https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-hamas-charter-20170501-story.html)

Patrick Byrom
30-05-2021, 06:58 PM
I see Michael is working hard to prove me right :)

Ian Murray
30-05-2021, 07:27 PM
I see Michael is working hard to prove me right :)

:)

MichaelBaron
30-05-2021, 09:11 PM
That wasn't Sunday, that was in 2016 (https://freebeacon.com/national-security/hamas-leader-calls-israels-destruction-says-every-inch-belongs-palestine/). Since then Hamas has released a new policy document, tacitly recognising Israel and declaring a willingness to accept the 1967 border

A revised Hamas charter will moderate its stance toward Israel — slightly (https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-hamas-charter-20170501-story.html)

The article says clearly that the revision was produced to ''reduce international pressures'' and that it is not to be trusted and Hamas is referred to as an organisation that is considered by US, European Union etc as terrorist.

Patrick Byrom
30-05-2021, 10:05 PM
The article says clearly that the revision was produced to ''reduce international pressures'' and that it is not to be trusted and Hamas is referred to as an organisation that is considered by US, European Union etc as terrorist.At least you got one out of three correct this time! Your quote doesn't exist in the document, and the only statement that Hamas is not to be trusted is from Israel - hardly an unbiased source.

MichaelBaron
30-05-2021, 10:42 PM
At least you got one out of three correct this time! Your quote doesn't exist in the document, and the only statement that Hamas is not to be trusted is from Israel - hardly an unbiased source.

Would you trust Hamas?
I just can not believe to what extreme even the ''left wing'' has evolved!

antichrist
30-05-2021, 11:29 PM
[SIZE=3][SIZE=5]
Israel is here to stay—the Jewish homeland for 3,000 years, long before the ancestral countries of the modern European states existed. Also long before any Arabs settled there.

[SIZE=7]Israel also exists because of what happened when the Jews were all across Europe: they were driven from their legally acquired land and slaughtered by the millions. Israel says: never again!

The original and genuine Jewish/Hebrew people's original homeland was actually Iraq. I assume they were Arabs and of course have a place in the M/E somewhere or another. I think you are referring that the Jewish Arabs settled in Israel before the Islamic Arabs. Islam is an evolution of Judaism. The Arabs being of the same original genetic make up as the Hebrews one would expect that they would be welcomed into Israel as long lost cousins.

Why stop historical homeland at 3,000 years, go back further and the same patch of dirt belonged to the Canaanites who the Hebrews may have performed a genocide job on according to the Jewish holy book. If you are accepting violence in Israel - that might is right - 3,000 years ago and again last century then other peoples also have the same right. The exact same principle that Hitler used that "created" the need for a Jewish homeland.

If Jewish leaders in Europe would have accepted offers of refuge from Australia and also maybe Africa then maybe the worse of the Holocaust would have been prevented. The Jewish leaders insisted on Israel and Israel only, where there was already protests at the massive migration taking place. Some Jewish leaders can also be blamed for the intensity of the Holocaust.

The European Zionists in Israel, being so arrogant and continually displacing Palestinian Arabs off land not recognised by the UN as part of Israel, have aggravated the crisis of many millions of homeless refugees. Due to seventy years of such repression Israel has no chance of gaining acceptance "on the ground". Nothing lasts for ever, including nations. How long before Islamic nuclear bombs reach Israel - by the end of this century I would predict. Of course Israel will retaliate - all because of a wrong decision by the UN. The whole region will be totally wrecked by problems created by Europeans upon Jews who had become Europeans.

Part of the Jewish problem is that many choose to remain in a self imposed non assimilated community. I heard a Polish Jew describe it in this manner. They read only Yiddish newspapers etc etc. By remaining different and isolated they leave themselves open to scapegoating when the situation goes bad. That was part of the reason why they were rejected in Palestine - they thought themselves above the local inhabitants.

Ian Murray
31-05-2021, 08:59 AM
Bye bye Bibi

Israeli opposition parties reach agreement to oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-netanyahu-bennett-lapid/2021/05/30/af2df7b4-c11d-11eb-922a-c40c9774bc48_story.html?wpmk=1&wpisrc=al_news__alert-world--alert-national&utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wp_news_alert_revere&location=alert&pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.e yJjb29raWVuYW1lIjoid3BfY3J0aWQiLCJpc3MiOiJDYXJ0YSI sImNvb2tpZXZhbHVlIjoiNWRjYzk2MDU5YmJjMGY0MTRmNzdkZ TZhIiwidGFnIjoid3BfbmV3c19hbGVydF9yZXZlcmUiLCJ1cmw iOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20vd29yb GQvbWlkZGxlX2Vhc3QvaXNyYWVsLW5ldGFueWFodS1iZW5uZXR 0LWxhcGlkLzIwMjEvMDUvMzAvYWYyZGY3YjQtYzExZC0xMWViL TkyMmEtYzQwYzk3NzRiYzQ4X3N0b3J5Lmh0bWw_d3Btaz0xJnd waXNyYz1hbF9uZXdzX19hbGVydC13b3JsZC0tYWxlcnQtbmF0a W9uYWwmdXRtX3NvdXJjZT1hbGVydCZ1dG1fbWVkaXVtPWVtYWl sJnV0bV9jYW1wYWlnbj13cF9uZXdzX2FsZXJ0X3JldmVyZSZsb 2NhdGlvbj1hbGVydCJ9.pVqkJrUy6NIvOXauV8c37DD6SqhVtB 85X-9CORZQ4Es)

Ian Murray
31-05-2021, 09:37 AM
See Their Children Laid Out, Dare to Talk About Israel's Responsibility (https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-see-their-children-laid-out-dare-to-talk-about-israel-s-responsibility-1.9856427?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=content&utm_campaign=daily-brief&utm_content=59503344f9)

Capablanca-Fan
31-05-2021, 10:33 AM
Maher Defends Israel: Leftists ‘Would Run Screaming To Tel Aviv If They Had To Live In Gaza For One Day’ (https://www.dailywire.com/news/maher-defends-israel-leftists-would-run-screaming-to-tel-aviv-if-they-had-to-live-in-gaza-for-one-day)
By Daily Wire News, 30 May 2021

HBO host Bill Maher slammed the media and left-wing activists during his most recent episode of “Real Time with Bill Maher,” saying that if those people who attacked Israel during its most recent conflict with Palestinian terrorists had to live in Gaza for one day that they would be running toward Israel.

Maher lambasted the idea that Israel committed war crimes during the conflict earlier this month, correctly noting that Palestinian terrorists fired well over 4,000 rockets at Israel and that organizations like Hamas place the rockets in civilian areas.

“This is another thing I’ve heard last couple of weeks, words like ‘occupiers’ and ‘colonizers’ and ‘apartheid’, which I don’t think people understand the history there,” Maher said. “The Jews have been in that area of the world since about 1,200 BC, way before the first Muslim or Arab walked the earth, 1,000 years before. I mean, Jerusalem is their capital. Okay, so if it’s just about who got there first, it’s not even close. There have been a continuous Jewish presence.”

BILL MAHER, HBO HOST: This was, after all, a war with Gaza. Thank God Israel treats its Arab citizens better than Egypt, Syria, or Saudi Arabia treat their Arab citizens. I didn’t see much of that in the press. I was glad to see you say it. Can you put some bones on that? Why do you say they treat their citizens better? Their Arab citizens.

BILL MAHER, HBO HOST: This was, after all, a war with Gaza. Thank God Israel treats its Arab citizens better than Egypt, Syria, or Saudi Arabia treat their Arab citizens. I didn’t see much of that in the press. I was glad to see you say it. Can you put some bones on that? Why do you say they treat their citizens better? Their Arab citizens.

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, NYT: So, I mean, I also said a lot more. And clearly within Israel … Arab citizens, obviously vote, they can serve in the Knesset, they can be judges. Some of the most robust organizations speaking up for Palestinians are organizations like [inaudible], the human rights organization. That does not happen in Egypt, which obviously massacres Egyptians who support democracy, we’ve seen what happens in Syria. But I would also say that, you know, I made that point for context, I think it’s important to understand that, that Israel at home truly is robust. But, you know, I don’t think that’s a defense for Israel, engaging in possible war crimes in Gaza, or engaging–

MAHER: Well Gaza fired 4000 rockets into Israel, what would you say Israel should have done instead of what they did? So how could you not — ?

KRISTOF: So, I mean, international lawyers are pretty clear that they have a right to defend themselves. They have a right to respond at military targets. But there was a sense that the response was probably a war clime, because it did not sufficiently avoid civilian casualties.

MAHER: But they purposely put the rockets in civilian places. That’s their strategy.

MAHER: Well because again, I mean, first of all, the two state solution has been on the table a number of times, there could be a Arab capital in East Jerusalem now if Yasser Arafat had accepted that in 2003, he did not. I mean, they have rejected this and went to war, time and time again. And, you know, as far as Gaza goes, it’s amazing to me that the progressives think that they’re being progressive, by taking that side of it, the Bella Hadid’s of the world, these influencers. I just want to say, in February of this year, a Hamas court ruled that an unmarried woman cannot travel in Gaza without the permission of a male guardian. Really? That’s where the progressives are? Bella Hadid and her friends would run screaming to Tel Aviv, if they had to live in Gaza for one day.

Patrick Byrom
31-05-2021, 12:29 PM
Would you trust Hamas? I just can not believe to what extreme even the ''left wing'' has evolved!The Israeli government trusts Hamas - that's why there's a ceasefire!

Ian Murray
01-06-2021, 08:05 AM
Would you trust Hamas?
I just can not believe to what extreme even the ''left wing'' has evolved!

Sooner or later both sides have to come to terms, terrorists or not, e.g. Britain and the IRA, South Africa and ANC, UNITA and MPLA, Spain and ETA.

MichaelBaron
01-06-2021, 02:15 PM
The Israeli government trusts Hamas - that's why there's a ceasefire!

The Israeli government is under international pressure. Who can trust Hamas. How many times has Hamas broken those treaties?

Ian Murray
01-06-2021, 02:29 PM
The Israeli government is under international pressure. Who can trust Hamas. How many times has Hamas broken those treaties?

There has never been a treaty

Ian Murray
03-06-2021, 10:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACweQaI_lLc

Ian Murray
03-06-2021, 12:21 PM
Two weeks ago the US approved another $735 million in arms sales to Israel. Now Israel is asking for another $1 billion in military aid

Israel set to ask the U.S. for another $1 billion in military aid (https://mondoweiss.net/2021/06/israel-set-to-ask-the-pentagon-for-another-1-billion-in-military-aid/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-email-mailpoet)

Simultaneously the US is providing $235 million in aid to Palestinians.

Biden administration to restore $235m in US aid to Palestinians (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56665199)

A little lopsidd perhaps

antichrist
03-06-2021, 01:21 PM
It reminds me of the Vietnamese conflict. If all the money spent on conflict had been spent on milk honey everybody would be millionaires.

Ian Murray
05-06-2021, 09:02 AM
Support for Israel is even dropping among evangelical Christians (https://mondoweiss.net/2021/06/support-for-israel-is-even-dropping-among-evangelical-christians/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-email-mailpoet)

... In fact, the poll suggests support is about to drop considerably in the coming years. Only 33.6% of young evangelicals (between the ages of 18 and 29) said they support Israel. 24.3% said they support Palestine. 42.2% said they support neither side in the conflict. Compare this survey to a similar one that was carried out by UNCP professors just a few years ago, in 2018. A staggering 69% of young evangelicals said they supported Israel back then and just 5.6% said they supported the Palestinians. 25.7% didn’t take a side.

“It’s become evident that Israel is developing a public relations problem with younger Americans,” one of the professors told the Times of Israel. “We see it with evangelicals as with American Jews and other groups.” ...

antichrist
06-06-2021, 10:01 AM
^ I cannot reconcile how religious Jews and Christians could believe how their perfect god would be hatched on stolen land.

antichrist
12-06-2021, 09:50 AM
Imagine critical race theory being taught in Israeli schools - I would love to see that

Scott Colliver
16-06-2021, 09:39 AM
And the ceasefire has been broken by both sides. Lets hope it is only a brief flare up and the ceasefire can be re-established straight away

We now no what kind of government the new Israeli government is going to be.

Ian Murray
16-06-2021, 10:34 AM
And the ceasefire has been broken by both sides. Lets hope it is only a brief flare up and the ceasefire can be re-established straight away

We now no what kind of government the new Israeli government is going to be.

No surprises there. The only brake on the new government is the Arab-Israeli rump, without which the fragile coalition cannot survive.


Often labelled an ultra-nationalist (he has described himself as "more right-wing" than Mr Netanyahu), Naftali Bennett is outspoken in his advocacy of Israel as the Jewish nation state and Jewish historical and religious claims to the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Syrian Golan Heights - territory occupied by Israel since the 1967 Middle East war.

He has long championed the right of Jewish settlement in the West Bank (he was once the head of the Yesha Council, the political representative group for Jewish settlers), although he has said Israel has no claims on Gaza (from which Israel withdrew troops and settlers in 2005). More than 600,000 Jews live in about 140 settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, considered illegal by almost the entire international community, though Israel disputes this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56969598

antichrist
16-06-2021, 12:30 PM
If Israel can take Palestine why can"t Russia take the Crimea and Iraq take Kuwait?

Ian Murray
20-07-2021, 12:14 PM
Valiant Israeli soldiers overpower foraging Palestinians

Israeli troops detain terrified Palestinian kids for picking vegetables (https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2021/03/14/647260/Israel-arrest-Palestinian-children-alKhalil)

antichrist
20-07-2021, 12:29 PM
Yet the world turns blindly away. At least one of many Jewish human rights groups are having a go. Jim Crow laws in Israel

Ian Murray
24-07-2021, 08:49 AM
Time to stop mincing words

Mainline church labels Israel an Apartheid state, and more churches are sure to follow (https://mondoweiss.net/2021/07/mainline-church-labels-israel-an-apartheid-state-and-more-churches-are-sure-to-follow/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-email-mailpoet)

“We reject Israel’s apartheid system of laws and legal procedures," the United Church of Christ stated at its general synod, in a resolution approved by 83 percent of members despite an appeal by the American Jewish Committee. ...

Ian Murray
24-07-2021, 09:58 AM
What the Ben & Jerry’s Decision Reveals About Israel (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/07/ben-jerrys-decision-israel-settlements/619537/)

Backlash to the ice-cream maker’s decision to distinguish between Israel and the territories it occupies has shown that, for many Israelis, the distinction no longer exists. ...

antichrist
24-07-2021, 12:20 PM
Time to stop mincing words

Mainline church labels Israel an Apartheid state, and more churches are sure to follow (https://mondoweiss.net/2021/07/mainline-church-labels-israel-an-apartheid-state-and-more-churches-are-sure-to-follow/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-email-mailpoet)

“We reject Israel’s apartheid system of laws and legal procedures," the United Church of Christ stated at its general synod, in a resolution approved by 83 percent of members despite an appeal by the American Jewish Committee. ...

I haven't read all but amazing just when I thought that all hope was lost. The Church response is also comprehensive. The existence of so many Jews that are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause means something.

Desmond
27-07-2021, 08:40 AM
2 judoka withdrew from the olympics rather than face an israeli.

https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-judo-star-perseveres-2-103530628.html

Ian Murray
30-07-2021, 01:01 PM
2 judoka withdrew from the olympics rather than face an israeli.

https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-judo-star-perseveres-2-103530628.html

On the other hand,

An Iranian athlete left his country after being told to lose on purpose, won silver at the Olympics for Mongolia, and dedicated the medal to Israel (https://www.insider.com/iranian-defector-dedicates-tokyo-olympic-medal-to-israel-2021-7?fbclid=IwAR3cqu0SLWu_Jc9PxwlsApUS9qehL9l_raNBMbt GToqzgwkLCfVO0Wsxreg)