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Ian Murray
31-12-2017, 11:35 AM
Debating BDS with Cornel West
by Alan M. Dershowitz



Zionism was the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, not a colonial enterprise. Nor is Israel in any way like South Africa, where a minority of whites ruled over a majority of Blacks, who were denied the most fundamental human rights. In Israel, Arabs, Druze and Christians have equal rights and serve in high positions in government, business, the arts and academia.
BDS is not a protest against Israel's policies. It is a protest against Israel's very existence.
West argued that BDS would encourage Israel to make peace with the Palestinians. I replied that Israel would never be blackmailed into compromising its security, and that the Palestinians are disincentivized into making compromises by the fantasy that they will get a state through economic and cultural extortion.


The Israeli population is segregated along religious/ethnic lines, which is apartheid by definition. Arabs do not remotely share equal rights with Jews.

Equal Rights for Palestinians (http://www.seamac.org/EqualRights.htm)
Seattle Mideast Awareness Campaign

Patrick Byrom
02-01-2018, 05:51 PM
“You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy ;) In Star Wars, the UN - ie the Republic - were the good guys who Obi-Wan was fighting for! It was its elimination that created all the problems.

Capablanca-Fan
04-01-2018, 08:50 AM
In Star Wars, the UN - ie the Republic - were the good guys who Obi-Wan was fighting for! It was its elimination that created all the problems.

Star Wars is fiction, in case you hadn't realized. And if you remember, this Republic was a moribund and inefficient organization that wouldn't protect Naboo, and embraced the despot Palpatine with applause. That seems right: the real UN embraces despots too.

Capablanca-Fan
04-01-2018, 08:56 AM
The Israeli population is segregated along religious/ethnic lines, which is apartheid by definition. Arabs do not remotely share equal rights with Jews.

Arabs, especially Arab women, have far more rights in Israel than in Arab-ruled countries.

The cited article is so crass. Yes, there are lots of repressions and assassinations in the Hamas controlled areas—because Hamas is doing that! And when was the last time Fatah held an election? Also:


THE GAZA STRIP, still surrounded, besieged and controlled by Israel, has been sealed off and effectively turned into the world’s largest open-air prison.


Yes, Israel pulled out of that and even left some useful greenhouses and other things. But the Palestinians destroyed those, and turned the strip into a launching pad for rockets aimed at Israeli civilians, while using their own citizens as human shields for the launching sites. The terrorists themselves hide in tunnels.

Capablanca-Fan
04-01-2018, 08:58 AM
Palestinians: Always on the Wrong Side (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11662/palestinians-india-wrong-side)
by Bassam Tawil (himself Muslim), 3 January 2018


Palestinians also took to the streets to celebrate the 9/11 attacks carried out by al-Qaeda.
Another sign of Palestinian support for dictators and terrorists emerged in August 2017, when President Mahmoud Abbas sent the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-Un, a telegram congratulating him for "Liberation Day."
Something good has come out of the fiasco surrounding the Palestinian ambassador's association with a global terrorist: The Indians realize now that Israel is their ally in the war on terrorism -- certainly not the Palestinians, who again and again align themselves with those who seek death and destruction.


The Palestinians have a long record of making such "mistakes." Forging alliances with mass murderers and terrorists goes back to the days of Haj Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who had close ties with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany. According to British records, Husseini told Hitler during a meeting in 1941: "The Arabs were Germany's natural friends because they had the same enemies as had Germany, namely the English, the Jews, and the Communists." He also thanked Hitler for supporting "the elimination of the Jewish national home."

Later, the Palestinians threw in their lot with the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and supported his invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Kuwait was one of many wealthy Arab countries that used to provide the Palestinians with billions of dollars in aid every year. When Kuwait was liberated a year later by the US-led coalition, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were deported from Kuwait and other Gulf countries. When Saddam fired rockets at Israel during the first Gulf War, the Palestinians took to the streets to dance and cheer.

Palestinians also took to the streets to celebrate the 9/11 attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. In the past decade, they have also rejoiced each time Hamas or Hezbollah fired rockets or carried out suicide attacks against Israel. Scenes of Palestinians handing out sweets in the aftermath of suicide bombings and other terror attacks are commonplace on the Palestinian street.

Patrick Byrom
04-01-2018, 06:30 PM
... That seems right: the real UN embraces despots too.That has been unfortunately true. From 1979 to 1992, the genocidal Khmer Rouge held the Cambodian seat in the UN - with the support of your hero Ronald Reagan, of course.

Patrick Byrom
04-01-2018, 06:50 PM
Palestinians: Always on the Wrong Side (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11662/palestinians-india-wrong-side)
by Bassam Tawil (himself Muslim), 3 January 2018 …Why are you condemning all Palestinians for the behaviour of a few? Should all Israelis be condemned because the Israeli government supported the apartheid regime in South Africa? Although the Gatestone Institute is not a very reliable source anyway - for example, 'Liberation Day' (from Japan) is celebrated by both North and South Korea.

Capablanca-Fan
07-01-2018, 04:37 PM
Ten Ways Israel Is Treated Differently (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/ten-ways-israel-is-treate_b_7579568.html)
By David Harris
Huffington Post

It’s appalling to see how Israel is treated by a totally different standard than other countries in the international system. Of course, Israel deserves scrutiny, as does every other nation. But it also merits equal treatment — nothing more, nothing less.

First, Israel is the only UN member state whose very right to exist is under constant challenge.

Second, Israel is the only UN member state that’s been targeted for annihilation by another UN member state.

Think about it. The leadership of Iran, together with Iran-funded proxies in Lebanon and Gaza, has repeatedly called for wiping Israel off the map. Is there any other country facing the threat of genocidal destruction?

Fifth, Israel is the only country that has won all its major wars for survival and self-defense, yet is confronted by defeated adversaries who have insisted on dictating the terms of peace.

In doing so, ironically, they’ve found support from many countries who, victorious in war themselves, demanded — and, yes, got — border adjustments.

Sixth, Israel is the only country in the world with a separate — and permanent — agenda item, #7, at the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Council.

No other member state, including serial human-rights violators like North Korea, Syria, Iran, and Sudan, gets its own agenda item. Only the sole liberal democracy in the Middle East is treated in this blatantly biased manner because that’s the way it works — the bad guys circle the wagons to protect one another, and, at the same time, gang up on Israel, creating an automatic majority against it.

Ian Murray
23-01-2018, 07:37 AM
Some Israelis stand up for what is right

'I won't fly refugees to their deaths': The El Al pilots resisting deportation (https://972mag.com/i-wont-fly-refugees-to-their-deaths-the-el-al-pilots-resisting-deportation/132582/)

Ian Murray
07-02-2018, 07:40 AM
14-year-old girl forced alone into Gaza is another example of the Israeli occupation’s cruelty (http://mondoweiss.net/2018/02/another-example-occupations/)
Mondoweiss
5.2.18

How did a 14-year-old Palestinian girl who has never set foot in the open-air prison of Gaza find herself being dumped there by Israeli officials – alone, at night and without her parents being informed? [T]he terrifying ordeal – a child realising she had not been taken home but discarded in a place where she knew no one – reveals Israel's casual indifference to the fate of the people they have ruled over for five decades.
...

antichrist
23-02-2018, 11:54 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr-lCJp9v1E

How white America treated the First People, no wonder they tolerate what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

Ian Murray
23-02-2018, 09:46 PM
Israel's Coming War With Hezbollah (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/israel/2018-02-21/israels-coming-war-hezbollah?cid=nlc-fa_twofa-20180222)
Foreign Affairs
21.2.18

Another war between Israel and Hezbollah is almost inevitable. Although neither side wants a conflict now, the shifting balance of power in the Levant and shrinking areas of contestation are indicators of a looming showdown. The real questions are how and where—not if—the impending conflagration will occur....

antichrist
23-02-2018, 11:43 PM
Israel's Coming War With Hezbollah (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/israel/2018-02-21/israels-coming-war-hezbollah?cid=nlc-fa_twofa-20180222)
Foreign Affairs
21.2.18

Another war between Israel and Hezbollah is almost inevitable. Although neither side wants a conflict now, the shifting balance of power in the Levant and shrinking areas of contestation are indicators of a looming showdown. The real questions are how and where—not if—the impending conflagration will occur....

after another 70 years Israel will finally accept a one state solution in a democratic state.

Capablanca-Fan
06-03-2018, 12:44 AM
Do Western "Goodists" Really Care about Helping Syrians, Palestinians? (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11946/western-goodists-syrians-palestinians)
by Giulio Meotti, Gatestone Institute, 5 March 2018


The West is drowning in a sea of double standards and moral relativism in which murderers and tyrants are allowed to wallow in their crimes, while global indignation is turned only against the sole democracy in the Middle East: Israel.
Israeli hospitals have never stopped treating Palestinians, even during wars in Gaza. In Syria, by comparison, Bashar Al-Assad continues to bomb the country's hospitals.
Instead of scapegoating Israel, perhaps these ‘goodists’, if they really care about helping oppressed people, as they claim, will finally promote a freedom flotilla to liberate Gaza from Hamas's tyranny and Syria from Assad's butchery?

Israeli children running to bomb shelters periodically become a scene of ordinary life in Israel. Four-year-olds, such as Daniel Tragerman, are killed if they do not reach the shelter in time. Palestinian terrorists launch missiles into Israel from Gaza's schools and the world sides with the terrorists—and condemns the Jewish State. The American website Salon recently called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “the most dangerous man in the Middle East”. And here you thought it was Bashar al-Assad—the poison-gasser in Damascus—or perhaps Iran's tyrants at home, in Yemen and Lebanon, who were destabilizing the Middle East?

According to both Israeli and Palestinian estimates, Hamas spends $100 million a year on military infrastructure in Gaza, of which $40 million of the annual total goes to digging its terror-attack tunnels. According to another estimate by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, that money could instead have built 1,500 homes, 24,000 hospital beds, six medical clinics and three water facilities. Rather than manufacturing missiles to launch against Israel, Hamas could build a water-desalination plant. But Hamas continues to use its imported cement to reinforce its terror tunnels, rather than, as promised, building homes, schools and hospitals; and it continues using Palestinian schools as launching-pads for rockets they fire at Israeli kindergartens.

With the Marshall Plan after the Second World War, America distributed $60 billion (in today's inflation-adjusted dollars) to rebuild all of Western Europe. According to the World Bank, the Palestinians have received more than half that amount, $31 billion, in aid since 1993. The money has largely ended up funding terrorism and corruption.

Instead of scapegoating Israel, perhaps these ‘goodists’, if they really care about helping oppressed people, as they claim, will finally promote a freedom flotilla to liberate Gaza from Hamas's tyranny and Syria from Assad's butchery?

Patrick Byrom
06-03-2018, 12:51 PM
So is supporting Assad good or bad - you can't seem to decide?!

Not at all. The question leftists usually forget to ask is, "Compared to what?" Gaddafi was a bad guy, as is Assad, but those who replaced him are even worse, and ISIS is even worse than Assad. Batista and Tsar Nicholas were bad guys, but far preferable to Castro and Lenin.

Capablanca-Fan
06-03-2018, 01:46 PM
So is supporting Assad good or bad — you can't seem to decide?!
Supporting Stalin was usually bad, e.g. when the New York Times covered up the Holodomor, but a sad necessity when trying to defeat Hitler. I thought that my explanation above should have been easy to understand, even for a leftist.

Patrick Byrom
06-03-2018, 05:36 PM
Supporting Stalin was usually bad, e.g. when the New York Times covered up the Holodomor, but a sad necessity when trying to defeat Hitler. I thought that my explanation above should have been easy to understand, even for a leftist.The article you just quoted says nothing about supporting Assad at any point, so your 'explanation' needs some more work.

And you seem to have forgotten this recent post:

... Meanwhile, Trump has done far better than Hillary would have done by cutting corporate tax rates, pulling out of the Paris agreement, finally telling the UN and the Palestinian terrorists where to go, crushed ISIS, and appointed judges who believe in following the original public meaning of the Constitution not imposing their own policy preferences. [my bolding]
If ISIS has been crushed, then there is no need to support Assad as a defence against ISIS - correct?

antichrist
16-03-2018, 01:38 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/a-land-without-borders/9547858

This Israeli guy, Nir Baram, from the Brisbane Writers festival gives an interesting perspective on the Palestinian/Israeli problem, I could only hear parts of it due to driving but definitely worth listening to.

Ian Murray
22-03-2018, 03:52 PM
Ahed Tamimi to spend 8 months in prison in plea deal (https://972mag.com/ahed-tamimi-to-spend-8-months-in-prison-in-plea-deal/133963/)
+972
21.3.18

Ahed Tamimi, the teenager from Nabi Saleh arrested after a video of her attempting to push two armed Israeli soldiers off of her family’s porch went viral, signed a plea deal in Israeli military court on Wednesday, and will serve eight months in prison including three months time served.

Her mother, Nariman, and cousin, Nur, also signed plea deals. Nariman will serve eight months, and Nur was sentenced to time served.

The now-famous video of Ahed was filmed shortly after Israeli soldiers shot her cousin, Mohammed, in the head with a rubber-coated bullet and fractured his skull. An Israeli military court denied bail to Ahed and her mother, Nariman — the latter charged with incitement for livestreaming the video of Ahed and the soldiers — in January....

antichrist
22-03-2018, 05:31 PM
Ahed Tamimi to spend 8 months in prison in plea deal (https://972mag.com/ahed-tamimi-to-spend-8-months-in-prison-in-plea-deal/133963/)
+972
21.3.18

Ahed Tamimi, the teenager from Nabi Saleh arrested after a video of her attempting to push two armed Israeli soldiers off of her family’s porch went viral, signed a plea deal in Israeli military court on Wednesday, and will serve eight months in prison including three months time served.

Her mother, Nariman, and cousin, Nur, also signed plea deals. Nariman will serve eight months, and Nur was sentenced to time served.

The now-famous video of Ahed was filmed shortly after Israeli soldiers shot her cousin, Mohammed, in the head with a rubber-coated bullet and fractured his skull. An Israeli military court denied bail to Ahed and her mother, Nariman — the latter charged with incitement for livestreaming the video of Ahed and the soldiers — in January....

This conflict reminds me so much of the Northern Island conflicts. I love it when strong women stand up and put abusive guys in their place. After 70 years of abuse what has Israel achieved on the goodwill stakes - absolutely nothing, they are hoping to outlast Palestinian and international condemnation but it ain't working one bit.

Ian Murray
24-03-2018, 06:28 AM
...
I love it when strong women stand up and put abusive guys in their place. After 70 years of abuse what has Israel achieved on the goodwill stakes - absolutely nothing, they are hoping to outlast Palestinian and international condemnation but it ain't working one bit.

The Israeli military justice system. Tamimi gets eight months for slapping a soldier while Azarya, the soldier who murdered a wounded Palestinian lying in the ground, gets nine months for 'manslaughter'.

In the occupation, slapping a soldier is worse than killing a Palestinian (http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/occupation-slapping-palestinian/?utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=0e50a5dc4b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b86bace129-0e50a5dc4b-398533981&mc_cid=0e50a5dc4b&mc_eid=cce18ae402)
Mondoweiss
21.3.18

Damodevo
10-04-2018, 06:31 AM
The Israeli military justice system. Tamimi gets eight months for slapping a soldier while Azarya, the soldier who murdered a wounded Palestinian lying in the ground, gets nine months for 'manslaughter'.

In the occupation, slapping a soldier is worse than killing a Palestinian (http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/occupation-slapping-palestinian/?utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=0e50a5dc4b-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b86bace129-0e50a5dc4b-398533981&mc_cid=0e50a5dc4b&mc_eid=cce18ae402)
Mondoweiss
21.3.18

Thats just flat out false (http://aijac.org.au/news/article/trying-times).


Far from being "jailed over a slap", Tamimi faced 12 charges, only five of which involved the events of December 15, 2017. An additional three charges involved alleged crimes that took place on December 8, 2017, while one allegedly took place on May 26, 2017, two on May 12, 2017 and one on April 1, 2016, including attacking soldiers, throwing rocks, obstructing soldiers and incitement.

Moreover, the lengthy 20-month spread between her first alleged offence and the date of her arrest would certainly seem to suggest that, not only was Tamimi's eventual arrest amply justified, but that the IDF showed a great deal of patience and restraint when dealing with Tamimi's repeated violent outbursts over the years.

Ian Murray
10-04-2018, 10:06 AM
Thats just flat out false (http://aijac.org.au/news/article/trying-times).

So they arrest her for slapping a soldier, then tack on a raft of backdated charges going back to April the previous year, What sort of justice system is that?

And you haven't mentioned the leniency of Elor Azaria's sentence for his summary execution (https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/israelis-want-soldier-executed-wounded-palestinian-suspect-camera-go-free/) of an incapacitated Palestinian which was captured on video. Anywhere else summary execution of wounded prisoners is a war crime, but in Israel the executioner is hailed as a hero.

Damodevo
10-04-2018, 03:13 PM
So they arrest her for slapping a soldier, then tack on a raft of backdated charges going back to April the previous year, What sort of justice system is that?

And you haven't mentioned the leniency of Elor Azaria's sentence for his summary execution (https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/israelis-want-soldier-executed-wounded-palestinian-suspect-camera-go-free/) of an incapacitated Palestinian which was captured on video. Anywhere else summary execution of wounded prisoners is a war crime, but in Israel the executioner is hailed as a hero.

All very well to second guess those in the field of duty but I think the 18mths plus the 10 mths already served seems about right. You are aware that was a terrorist that attempted to murder innocent israelis right? Does that not enter your moral equation?

antichrist
10-04-2018, 04:16 PM
All very well to second guess those in the field of duty but I think the 18mths plus the 10 mths already served seems about right. You are aware that was a terrorist that attempted to murder innocent israelis right? Does that not enter your moral equation?

Almost all Israelis are guilty of stealing or receiving stolen property, i.e. land going back to 1947 - 70 years. It is only just that those stolen from can attempt to recuperate their stolen property and as international tribunes are hopeless they have no alternative than to use violence. The Palestinian land was stolen by Zionist terrorists and continues to be so to this day.

MichaelBaron
10-04-2018, 04:26 PM
Almost all Israelis are guilty of stealing or receiving stolen property, i.e. land going back to 1947 - 70 years. It is only just that those stolen from can attempt to recuperate their stolen property and as international tribunes are hopeless they have no alternative than to use violence. The Palestinian land was stolen by Zionist terrorists and continues to be so to this day.

Fantastic claim (as always) Would you kindly back it up with the facts?
Also, can you see alternatives to terrorism? If you see none...I am sorry.

Ian Murray
10-04-2018, 05:28 PM
All very well to second guess those in the field of duty

Azaria arrived on the scene ten minutes after the attack was neutralised. He was under no pressure , there was no excuse for disregarding the international rules of war or IDF rules of engagement.


but I think the 18mths plus the 10 mths already served seems about right. You are aware that was a terrorist that attempted to murder innocent israelis right? Does that not enter your moral equation?

They were children resisting the occupation by attacking armed soldiers with knives and scissors. Hardly any great threat to the IDF.


There have been so many incidents in which disproportionate force was suspected that, in February, the I.D.F.’s chief of staff, Gadi Eisenkot, felt impelled to reaffirm I.D.F. rules of engagement and warn that it was hardly necessary to “empty a magazine into a teen-age girl carrying scissors.”
Netanyahu Chooses: The Settlers Over The Army And Diplomacy (http://bernardavishai.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/netanyahu-chooses-settlers-over-army.html)

Ian Murray
29-04-2018, 08:42 AM
Sound familiar?

Israel scraps plan to forcibly deport African asylum seekers (https://972mag.com/israel-scraps-plan-to-forcibly-deport-african-asylum-seekers/134894/)
+972
24.4.18

The Israeli government informed the High Court Tuesday that its plan to forcibly deport tens of thousands of African asylum seekers has collapsed, after failing to broker a deal with “third countries” to resettle them....

Over the course of the past month and a half, the Israeli government’s plan to deport the African asylum seekers gradually fell apart after the High Court demanded the government present a deportation plan to resettle the migrants, or free them from detention.

Massive anti-deportation rallies across Israel and around the world, activists and journalists (including work by +972 Magazine) working to expose what happened to asylum seekers after being deported from Israel, public and international pressure on the Rwandan government, strategic lawsuits challenging the deportation plan itself, and the right timing all played a role in stopping the mass deportations....

Capablanca-Fan
29-04-2018, 11:42 AM
Fantastic claim (as always) Would you kindly back it up with the facts?
Also, can you see alternatives to terrorism? If you see none...I am sorry.

Yep, typical of the Israel-haters to condone violence against the innocents. They pretend to want a two-state solution, but they really want only one state that doesn't include Israel.

Ian Murray
29-04-2018, 01:12 PM
Yep, typical of the Israel-haters to condone violence against the innocents. They pretend to want a two-state solution, but they really want only one state that doesn't include Israel.

Israel is orders of magnitude more violent against innocent Palestinians

You're far more likely to be killed protesting in Gaza than firing a rocket (https://972mag.com/youre-far-more-likely-to-be-killed-protesting-in-gaza-than-firing-a-rocket/134952/)
+972
27.4.18

The Israeli army’s response to unarmed protests in the Gaza Strip over the last few weeks has been vastly deadlier than its response to rockets fired from the besieged territory over the past year and a half.

Israeli military forces have killed more unarmed Palestinians participating in the Great Return March protests in Gaza since March 30, during which time no rockets or mortars were fired into Israel, than it did in the preceding 16 months during which time Palestinian groups fired dozens of projectiles into Israel.

In fact, not a single rocket has been fired into Israel from Gaza since February 18, according to the IDF Spokesperson.

At least 40 unarmed Palestinians — including two journalists — have been shot and killed by Israeli sharpshooters and snipers in the vicinity of the Gaza border fence since March 30. At least 1,500 others were wounded by sniper gunfire, according to the United Nations data from earlier this week....

Capablanca-Fan
29-04-2018, 01:42 PM
Oh, well, it has to be right because the UN kakistocracy says so. Meanwhile, they say nothing of Hamas' double war crime of launching rockets at Israeli civilians while hiding the launchers among their own civilians. And what do you think happens to those who protest against Hamas?

Ian Murray
29-04-2018, 02:28 PM
Oh, well, it has to be right because the UN kakistocracy says so. Meanwhile, they say nothing of Hamas' double war crime of launching rockets at Israeli civilians while hiding the launchers among their own civilians. And what do you think happens to those who protest against Hamas?

There are plenty of other sources you can choose from, e.g.

Israel Confirms Video of Sniper Shooting Unarmed Palestinian, as Soldiers Cheer, Is Genuine (https://theintercept.com/2018/04/10/gaza-protests-palestine-israel-sniper-video/)

Second Palestinian journalist dies of wounds from IDF sniper fire (https://972mag.com/second-palestinian-journalist-dies-of-wounds-from-idf-sniper-fire/134922/)

Massacre in Gaza: Israeli Forces Open Fire on Palestinians, Killing 18, Wounding As Many As 1,700 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYv1-u7XtZo)

The use of lethal force against unarmed protesters is barbaric. It is their land being illegally occupied by Israeli military and settlers.

Capablanca-Fan
30-04-2018, 01:44 PM
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman: Palestinians Need To Negotiate Or 'Shut Up And Stop Complaining' (https://www.dailywire.com/news/30015/saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman-frank-camp)
Frank Camp, 29 April 2018

According to Barak Ravid of Israel’s Channel 10 News and Axios, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman shocked Jewish attendees during a meeting in New York in March, saying:


In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given. It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.

Bin Salman also slammed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, reports Ravid, citing inside sources.

Ian Murray
30-04-2018, 02:44 PM
Except Israel refuses to negotiate while Palestine pays Israeli-held prisoners and their families

Why the PA can't — and won't — stop paying prisoners' families (https://972mag.com/why-the-pa-cant-and-wont-stops-paying-prisoners-families/134833/)
+972
22.4.18

The Israeli demand that the Palestinian Authority stop paying the families of prisoners in Israeli jails has spread like wildfire over the past year. It has become part of Israel’s hasbara arsenal, heard again and again, mainly whenever Israel fears that the international community — or, worse, the United States — intends to present a peace plan. In those cases, the demand appears to come from everywhere: from Israeli decision-makers and pundits, academics and online comments sections. Thus, it has become a slogan — hollow, yet effective....

A deeper, critical examination, however, reveals that Israelis who want peace — and all those concerned about the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict — should be angry at the current government and the hasbara apparatus. Because the PA obviously cannot accept the Israeli demand in anyway, Israel’s strategy, in practice, amounts to an attempt to prevent any possible progress or resolution to the conflict.

As a reminder: Israel and the Palestinians are anything but at peace. The Palestinians are engaged — still — in an ongoing struggle for their own state and for freedom from the Israeli occupation. As terrible as this sounds to Israeli ears, from the Palestinian perspective the enemy is clearly the Israeli soldier, policeman, security guard, or settler in the West Bank, which for Palestinians (and for every country in the world except for Israel and the U.S.), is called the “Occupied Palestinian Territories.”

In keeping with this Palestinian perspective, it is not surprising that most of the violent actions for which Palestinians are currently imprisoned in Israeli jails were committed in the Occupied Territories, mostly against soldiers, security guards, and settlers. And while the PA did not send these Palestinians to commit these acts of violence, the PA, within the context of the Palestinian liberation struggle, cannot ignore them....

The Palestinian Authority cannot move in any direction. If it continues to support the families of Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, it gives credence to the Israeli charge that it supports terrorism, and the Israeli government can continue to maintain the status quo of endless occupation and no peace negotiations. If the PA were to announce an end to financial support to prisoners’ families, it would lose its legitimacy and cease to exist.

This may be a victory for Israeli hasbara, but it is loss for all those concerned with Israel’s future.

Ian Murray
06-05-2018, 07:49 AM
Video: Médecins Sans Frontières clinic overwhelmed by Palestinians wounded during March of Return (http://mondoweiss.net/2018/05/frontieres-overwhelmed-palestinians)
Mondoweiss
4.5.18

Since the “Great March of Return” in Gaza began on March 30th, Israeli forces have violently suppressed the protests, killing over 40 Palestinians and injuring over 6,000 more. Doctors in Gaza have expressed concern that protesters have been targeted in the legs by Israeli live fire, noting Israel’s use of expanding or explosive bullets, that tear through soft tissue and make injuries extremely difficult to treat.

According to the Gaza Ministry of Health, as of May 3, at least 24 Palestinians have had their legs amputated due to their wounds. Israel has continued to justify its use of live fire against civilian protesters, claiming that the protesters “pose a threat” to its security fence.

[Note: Anti-personnel expanding or explosive ammunition is prohibited under international law]

Capablanca-Fan
15-05-2018, 05:23 AM
Promise Kept: Trump Administration Officially Opens U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/05/14/promise-kept-trump-administration-officially-opens-us-embassy-in-jerusalem-n2480534)
Katie Pavlich, 14 May 2018

After decades of empty pledges to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, President Trump made good on his promise to do so Monday afternoon.

"Today, we finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel's capital," President Trump said.

President Trump did not attend, but delivered remarks through video.

White House Senior Advisor Ivanka Trump and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, both part of the presidential delegation sent to Jerusalem over the weekend, officially unveiled the U.S. Embassy seal Monday afternoon.

Patrick Byrom
15-05-2018, 07:51 AM
Once again, Trump is doing something that provides no real benefit to the US (or Israel), but really helps his boss Putin.

MichaelBaron
15-05-2018, 11:22 PM
Once again, Trump is doing something that provides no real benefit to the US (or Israel), but really helps his boss Putin.

Boss Putin...
Any evidence to support this statement?

Ian Murray
16-05-2018, 07:48 AM
Excellent Trump: keeping a promise that other presidents broke
Promise Kept: Trump Administration Officially Opens U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/05/14/promise-kept-trump-administration-officially-opens-us-embassy-in-jerusalem-n2480534)
Katie Pavlich, 14 May 2018

After decades of empty pledges to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, President Trump made good on his promise to do so Monday afternoon.

"Today, we finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel's capital," President Trump said....

So much for Trump's promise to bring peace to the Middle ast

Under Trump, the U.S. has abandoned the last shred of balance on Israel (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/05/14/under-trump-the-u-s-has-abandoned-the-last-shred-of-balance-on-israel/?utm_term=.052e3e5e8898)
Washington Post op-ed
14.5.18

...The decision to move our embassy to Jerusalem was a symbolic one, but it is a vitally important symbol. Because both Israel and the Palestinians claim the city as their capital, no country had put an embassy there, choosing instead to locate them in Tel Aviv. Previous presidents have promised to move our embassy but not followed through, one after another deciding it would only inflame tensions. The fact that others had promised it, but not delivered, was no doubt a powerful incentive for Trump to relocate the embassy, since he loves being able to say he did what nobody else could do. It’s also obvious he feels absolutely no concern or empathy for the Palestinians and their fate.

David Friedman, who was appointed as the U.S. ambassador to Israel with zero diplomatic experience — though he was Trump’s bankruptcy lawyer — gave an extraordinary interview to NPR on Monday, during which he made the United States’s new position clear. ...

Patrick Byrom
16-05-2018, 08:10 AM
Boss Putin... Any evidence to support this statement?Almost every news item about Trump and Russia!?

MichaelBaron
16-05-2018, 04:55 PM
Almost every news item about Trump and Russia!?

But any evidence that Trump is connected to Putin? As of now there are US sanctions against Russia...

Patrick Byrom
16-05-2018, 11:24 PM
But any evidence that Trump is connected to Putin? As of now there are US sanctions against Russia...Sanctions which Trump opposed, and delayed for several months.

As for the connections (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/03/28/the-web-of-connections-between-trump-and-putin-visualized/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.24ad3b9bb9fb).

Capablanca-Fan
17-05-2018, 12:43 AM
Ten Ways Israel Is Treated Differently (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ten-ways-israel-is-treate_b_7579568)
By David Harris
Huffington Post [itself über-leftist], 14 June 2016

It’s appalling to see how Israel is treated by a totally different standard than other countries in the international system. Of course, Israel deserves scrutiny, as does every other nation. But it also merits equal treatment — nothing more, nothing less.

First, Israel is the only UN member state whose very right to exist is under constant challenge.

Third, Israel is the only nation whose capital city, Jerusalem, is not recognized by other nations.

Imagine the absurdity of this. Foreign diplomats live in Tel Aviv while conducting virtually all their business in Jerusalem. Though no Western nation questions Israel’s presence in the city’s western half, where the prime minister’s office, Knesset (Parliament), and Ministry of Foreign Affairs are located, there are no embassies there.

And tenth, Israel is the only country targeted by the BDS (boycott, divestment, and sanctions) movement.

Has anyone seen any significant campus activity that takes aim at true human rights offenders, including some in Israel’s neighborhood, who behead, forcibly convert, and expel Christians; drop chemically-laced barrel bombs on civilians; deny Palestinians full rights; and use capital punishment, including for minors, with abandon?

Has any student group tried to prevent undergraduates from traveling to any country other than Israel, as was the case with a recent “pledge” circulated at UCLA?

Has anyone seen any flotillas or flytillas organized by European far-left groups that don’t involve an anti-Israel angle?

Has anyone seen movements for companies to pull out of any country other than Israel?

Turkey, as but one example, has brazenly and unjustifiably occupied one-third of the island nation of Cyprus for 41 years, deployed an estimated 40,000 Turkish troops there, and transferred countless settlers from Anatolia, yet there’s not a peep against Ankara from those who purport to act in the name of “justice” and against “occupation.”

Given political realities, tackling any of these instances of egregious double standards and blatant hypocrisy can be a daunting challenge. And, still worse, this list is not complete.

Capablanca-Fan
17-05-2018, 03:22 AM
THE SIEGE OF ISRAEL (http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/the-siege-of-israel/21398)
The demonisation of Israel is nurturing a new kind of conflict.
BRENDAN O’NEILL, 15 MAY 2018

There is a grim irony to the florid condemnations of Israel being made by Western observers and politicians following the killing of 60 Palestinians at the Gaza border yesterday. Many of these people who are so disgusted by Israel’s behaviour, so agitated by what it has done that they plan to take to the streets later today to register their fury, have played a significant role in the great beleaguering of Israel in recent years. In the transformation of Israel into an illegitimate entity. In the reduction of it to a uniquely ‘rogue’ state. In the treatment of it as fair game for isolation, boycotting, attack, and possibly destruction: Israel is the only nation on Earth whose erasure can casually become a topic for dinner-party chatter.

And you cannot beleaguer a state like this and then feign surprise when said state feels beleaguered. You cannot contribute to the moral isolation of Israel and then be shocked to discover that Israel feels isolated, and fragile, and possibly on edge, and consequently deeply concerned with defending its borders—borders that so much of the world hates or at least contests—from a hostile incursion. At least, if you are a serious person you cannot do this.

Should Israel have let the protesters tear down the fences? And enter Israeli territory? And in the process call into question the very integrity of the state of Israel? If people’s answer to these questions is ‘Yes’, then they are asking of Israel something they are unlikely to ask of any other state on Earth. And that is to judge Israel by a double standard, by the ultimate double standard.

Patrick Byrom
17-05-2018, 10:57 AM
There is a difference between stopping people from entering your territory and killing them.

MichaelBaron
17-05-2018, 11:31 AM
Sanctions which Trump opposed, and delayed for several months.

As for the connections (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/03/28/the-web-of-connections-between-trump-and-putin-visualized/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.24ad3b9bb9fb).

I agree that would be good to see far more severe sanctions. However, EU countries are even less consistent with the sanctions - are they also secretly connected to Putin?

MichaelBaron
17-05-2018, 11:32 AM
There is a difference between stopping people from entering your territory and killing them.

Did the people try to enter Israel peacefully? What were they doing there? What was their intent?

Capablanca-Fan
17-05-2018, 01:50 PM
WHO’S RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE GAZA DEATHS? THE HAMAS AND THEIR WESTERN MEDIA ENABLERS (http://www.melaniephillips.com/whos-responsible-for-these-gaza-deaths-the-hamas-and-their-western-media-enablers/)
Melanie Phillips, 14 May 2018

The toll in today’s Gaza riots (according to the Hamas) currently stands at around 55 Arabs dead (amongst whom, say the Israelis, are at least ten Hamas terrorists); that toll may well rise with further riots threatened tomorrow and the day after.

The people who caused these deaths are the Hamas themselves. But the people at whose door these dead Arabs should also be laid are the BBC and those in the rest of the British and other media who have acted their part in the script the Hamas has written: to cause as many Gazans to lose their lives as possible, the younger the better, so that the western media will portray Israel as wanton and disproportionate killers.

The media has duly obliged by calling what’s been happening at Gaza’s border with Israel, today and previously, “unarmed” demonstrations or “protests against the US embassy move”. It was nothing of the kind. As I wrote here (http://www.melaniephillips.com/media-sanitise-border-mass-invasion/) yesterday, by the Hamas’s own lights this is an attempt by tens of thousands of Arabs to storm the border in order to invade and destroy Israel.

And it is a lie to say, as the media continue falsely to report, that this great mob is unarmed. They are using petrol bombs, IEDs, flaming kites.

Their tactics have been described by Israel’s security service, the Shin Bet. Captured Gazans have told them that Hamas has warned its members to stay away from the security fence during the riots lest they get shot, while actively encouraging Palestinian civilians — particularly children and teens — to approach the border. “There is a prohibition for Hamas operatives to approach the border from a fear that they will be killed or captured by IDF troops, unless the security fence falls; and then they must enter, armed, into Israel under the cover of the masses and carry out terror attacks”.

Now also we can see the profound antisemitism of Amnesty International and others. Amnesty tweeted today: “We are witnessing an abhorrent violation of international law and human rights in Gaza… This must end immediately”.

What Amnesty means is that Israel’s self-defence must end immediately. We must therefore conclude that Amnesty would be unmoved by the inevitable consequence: the invasion of Israel and slaughter of Israelis. For Amnesty, it seems, Jewish lives don’t matter.

And that goes for everyone else demanding that Israel now desists from doing what every other country on earth would do if facing a potential mob of 250,000 invaders bent on conquest and mass murder: defending itself as best it can.

Jews have died in their millions over the centuries at the hands of those who simply hate Jews. Hamas are the latest manifestation of this evil. But in Israel, the Jewish people now has the means to defend itself; and it goes to enormous lengths to guard every life because so many have been lost.

Yet these Israel-bashers complain that this is somehow not cricket, that the Jews need to die – because it’s not fair that they are killing their would-be killers instead. So they portray the Jews as the killers and their genocidal Arab attackers as their victims. Just how disgusting is this?

At times like this we can see how these parts of the west are signing their own death warrant. Well guess what – in Israel, the Jewish people said “never again”. This is what that looks like.

Patrick Byrom
17-05-2018, 06:28 PM
I agree that would be good to see far more severe sanctions. However, EU countries are even less consistent with the sanctions - are they also secretly connected to Putin?My argument isn't that Trump is connected to Putin because he delayed sanctions. My argument is that he is connected to Putin because he's connected to Putin, as the link demonstrated. And the sanctions I'm referring to are the ones imposed by the US for Russia's interference in the US election - Trump actually sided with Putin on this issue.

Patrick Byrom
17-05-2018, 06:29 PM
Did the people try to enter Israel peacefully? What were they doing there? What was their intent?Peacefully demonstrating. Note that they were unarmed, which would be highly unusual for an 'invasion' force.

Capablanca-Fan
18-05-2018, 12:03 AM
I said Israel should be ashamed – now I am the one who is ashamed (https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/i-said-israel-should-be-ashamed-of-its-actions-on-the-gaza-border-now-i-am-the-one-who-is-ashamed-1.464233)
On Tuesday Daniel Sugarman wrote an article on the clashes at the Gaza border. Today [17 May 2018] he acknowledges that he was wrong.

The traditional crowd stopping technology would not have worked effectively. Rubber bullets are only short range. The same with water cannons. And with tens of thousands of people rushing the border, this would have been extremely unlikely to work effectively. The border would have been broken through. And then, without much of a doubt, a lot of people in Israel would have died. That was, after all, Hamas’s stated aim.

But what really affected me the most was yesterday, when a Hamas operative went on television and claimed that, of the 62 people killed in the last two days, fifty were Hamas operatives. Islamic Jihad claimed three more, meaning that over 80 percent of the people who were killed while trying to breach the border were members of terrorist organisations whose direct aim is to bring death and suffering into Israel.

Shoot at those charging at you and Hamas would have its martyrs. Fail to shoot and Hamas would break through the barrier and bring suffering and death—its stated aim—to Israelis living only a few hundred metres away from that barrier. The march may have originally been, as it was declared to be, about Palestinians returning to the homes they had to leave 70 years before. But Hamas’s aim was far more straightforward—“We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.”

I wrote in my previous article that Israel was a regional powerhouse, and that it was strong enough to take criticism from Jews in the Diaspora.

I still believe it is strong enough to do so. I just don’t believe that my criticism of it was valid. Given the circumstances, and the situation on the ground, I am at a loss in terms of coming up with a better solution. The choice was, quite literally, shoot at people running at you with the stated aim of killing you and your families, or fail to shoot and let them do it.

MichaelBaron
18-05-2018, 04:03 AM
My argument isn't that Trump is connected to Putin because he delayed sanctions. My argument is that he is connected to Putin because he's connected to Putin, as the link demonstrated. And the sanctions I'm referring to are the ones imposed by the US for Russia's interference in the US election - Trump actually sided with Putin on this issue.

These allegations have not been proven. Furthermore, the last thing Putin needs is for US to have a strong leader like Trump. Right or Wrong, Trump is a man of action.

Patrick Byrom
18-05-2018, 09:48 AM
These allegations have not been proven. Furthermore, the last thing Putin needs is for US to have a strong leader like Trump. Right or Wrong, Trump is a man of action.That Trump supported Putin is not an allegation. When the sanctions were imposed, Trump praised Putin and rejected the evidence provided by his own intelligence services.

Capablanca-Fan
18-05-2018, 11:00 AM
Gaza’s Miseries Have Palestinian Authors (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/opinion/gaza-palestinians-protests.html)
Bret Stephens, New York Times, 16 May 2018
By Bret Stephens

For the third time in two weeks, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have set fire to the Kerem Shalom border crossing (https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5261028,00.html), through which they get medicine, fuel and other humanitarian essentials from Israel. Soon we’ll surely hear a great deal about the misery of Gaza. Try not to forget that the authors of that misery are also the presumptive victims.

There’s a pattern here — harm yourself, blame the other — and it deserves to be highlighted amid the torrent of morally blind, historically illiterate criticism to which Israelis are subjected every time they defend themselves against violent Palestinian attack.

But where is the outrage that Hamas kept urging Palestinians to move toward the fence, having been amply forewarned by Israel of the mortal risk? Or that protest organizers encouraged women to lead the charges on the fence because, as The Times’s Declan Walsh reported, “Israeli soldiers might be less likely to fire on women”? Or that Palestinian children as young as 7 were dispatched to try to breach the fence? Or that the protests ended after Israel warned Hamas’s leaders, whose preferred hide-outs include Gaza’s hospital, that their own lives were at risk?

Elsewhere in the world, this sort of behavior would be called reckless endangerment. It would be condemned as self-destructive, cowardly and almost bottomlessly cynical.

The mystery of Middle East politics is why Palestinians have so long been exempted from these ordinary moral judgments. How do so many so-called progressives now find themselves in objective sympathy with the murderers, misogynists and homophobes of Hamas? Why don’t they note that, by Hamas’s own admission, some 50 of the 62 protesters killed on Monday were members of Hamas? Why do they begrudge Israel the right to defend itself behind the very borders they’ve been clamoring for years for Israelis to get behind?

Why is nothing expected of Palestinians, and everything forgiven, while everything is expected of Israelis, and nothing forgiven?

Patrick Byrom
18-05-2018, 01:52 PM
So how is Hamas responsible for the shooting of this doctor (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/17/canadian-doctor-wounded-gaza-israel-palestinians-gaza)?

Capablanca-Fan
24-05-2018, 01:07 AM
Media Coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian Clash Is Built on a Myth (https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/05/21/media-coverage-of-the-israeli-palestinian-clash-is-built-on-a-myth/)
David Harsanyi, 21 May 2018

No matter how often Hamas tells us that rioters on the Israel-Gaza border are armed, the media keeps referring to them as “protesters” and “demonstrators.”

No matter how often Hamas concedes that those rioters are part of a broader “war,” the media simply won’t report it as such. And even though rioters assure reporters they have a desire to kill and burn Jews, left-wing journalists and pundits continue to frame Israel as the aggressor.

Last week, a senior Hamas official bragged that 50 of the nearly 60 people killed by the Israeli Defense Forces at the Israel-Gaza border were members of Hamas. Israel has identified around 24 of those killed during the riots as Hamas members—10 of them reportedly members of the internal security apparatus. All of this is an amazing coincidence considering how the clashes have been portraying as a massacre of innocent civilians and children.

Hamas, of course, has no problem boasting about these deaths, but it’s the goal. If you’re going to embed armed terrorists in a ginned-up mob that has been propagandized, paid, coerced, and then sent toward military installations and civilian centers across the border, you are counting on causalities. Because martyrdom is the point.

Instead of taking them at their word, Hamas apologists continue arguing that Gaza is an open-air prison. This is only true if you consider people who lock themselves up as prisoners.

antichrist
24-05-2018, 06:35 PM
Based on international law of Right of Return the Palestinians had full right to return without having to crawl on their knees begging to Israeli robber terrorists

Capablanca-Fan
01-06-2018, 09:38 AM
Gaza electricity cut off after rocket strikes supplying facility (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/246638)
Rocket fired by Gaza terrorists damages electric facility supplying electricity to Gaza.
Arutz Sheva Staff, 29 May 2018

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Patrick Byrom
01-06-2018, 10:09 AM
So how is Hamas responsible for the shooting of this doctor (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/17/canadian-doctor-wounded-gaza-israel-palestinians-gaza)?
Crickets ...

Capablanca-Fan
07-06-2018, 11:31 AM
It’s Time For Israel’s Campus Advocates To Seize The Offense In The Psychological War Against Israel (https://www.dailywire.com/news/31550/dahl-its-time-israels-campus-advocates-seize-ziva-dahl)
Ziva Dahl, 6 June 2018

Israel supporters on campus are systematically targeted, harassed and silenced inside and outside the classroom by groups like Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and like-minded faculty.

This is a war — a vicious, coordinated war of words as dangerous to Israel’s survival as mortars and rockets. By poisoning the minds of our future thought leaders, the enemy is attempting to destroy the Jewish state. This psychological warfare is modeled after Herr Goebbels’ “Big Lie” strategy: Say that Israel is a racist and genocidal country often enough and people will ultimately believe it.

Democratic Israel is the only nation universally demonized, delegitimized and held to a double standard on campuses across America — exactly what the U.S. State Department defines as anti-Semitism.

Reservists on Duty, an NGO of Israeli reserve officers combating anti-Israel propaganda on U.S campuses, launched an event called "Palestinian Values Day.” Founder Amit Deri explains (https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/IDF-Reservists-on-Duty-aim-to-expose-Palestinian-hatred-on-US-campuses-471494) that, while it’s fine to talk about Israel’s intellectual and scientific achievements, it’s more important to talk about shared values, contrasting Palestinian behavior with Israel’s democratic institutions and protections for minorities. “Nobody is talking about what the Palestinians are doing to their own people, and the values of that society.” Deri thinks that no American student wants to associate with people who throw gays off rooftops, condone honor killings of women or use their people as human shields. But all they hear is the defamation of Israel.

Ziva Dahl is a fellow with the Haym Salomon Center. She has a Master of Arts degree in public law and government from Columbia University and an A.B. in political science from Vassar College.

antichrist
22-06-2018, 10:21 PM
About a year or so ago KB announced his support for a two state solution of Palestine/Israel. But if we accept International Law that allows Right of Return then is the two state solution still viable or popular. Jews in current Israeli boarders could be in a minority and if there is true democracy they may find it intolerable to accept, especially as there is a lot of bad blood between the two communities. Isn't it racist to deny Right of Return when Jews not even born yet whose parents live outside of Israel have the ability when born to enter Israel and be allocated land. The whole philosophy that Israel is built on would change when the Arabs return and I strongly doubt that Jews would be able to evolve quickly enough to accept the new situation.

Kevin Bonham
23-06-2018, 12:10 AM
About a year or so ago KB announced his support for a two state solution of Palestine/Israel. But if we accept International Law that allows Right of Return then is the two state solution still viable or popular.

The "right of return" in international law is intended to guarantee people the right to return to their country of origin or the country which they are a citizen of.

It does not guarantee that that country will retain the same borders or that that country will not split in two. In many cases it wouldn't make the slightest sense if it did make such guarantees. "I want to return to Yugoslavia". Good luck with that.

So I don't see what your issue is.

antichrist
23-06-2018, 01:14 AM
The "right of return" in international law is intended to guarantee people the right to return to their country of origin or the country which they are a citizen of.

It does not guarantee that that country will retain the same borders or that that country will not split in two. In many cases it wouldn't make the slightest sense if it did make such guarantees. "I want to return to Yugoslavia". Good luck with that.

So I don't see what your issue is.

What you are saying is probably correct. But when that right is exercised maybe the Israeli citizens would no longer want to live there under the new circumstances and there could be civil war. Knowing that beforehand of course you still do respect the Palestinian right of return? And if such return takes place and there will be attempts to change the constitution and political strife for decades you would not let that change your opinion before the return takes place if the Israelis are complaining about it? (thanks for participating in the debate)

Kevin Bonham
23-06-2018, 11:14 AM
But when that right is exercised maybe the Israeli citizens would no longer want to live there under the new circumstances and there could be civil war.

Hence my point above. If the right of return is to Palestine and Palestine is a separate state why would the Israeli citizens care?

I also understand that the "right of return" is problematic in cases where someone has acquired citizenship elsewhere.

Claims for "right of return" that include, for instance, the right to return to a particular home area even if it has been transferred to another nation, are unworkable.

antichrist
23-06-2018, 04:02 PM
Hence my point above. If the right of return is to Palestine and Palestine is a separate state why would the Israeli citizens care?

I also understand that the "right of return" is problematic in cases where someone has acquired citizenship elsewhere.

Claims for "right of return" that include, for instance, the right to return to a particular home area even if it has been transferred to another nation, are unworkable.

It may be unworkable to you and the citizens of Isreali but that is what International Law may state. Of course it must because they must have land to go back to, not be refugees otherwise it becomes meaningless and would be an incentive for illegal occupiers to change borders to escape Right of Return. so with Right of Return the State of Israel becomes effectively dysfunctional which is why Israel will never agree to it. which is why Israel will always be war criminals etc etc etc. Exactly the things that Arab countries are condemned and invaded for - but Israel never.

And you by supporting a two state non-right of return solution are condoning their criminal actions.

Kevin Bonham
23-06-2018, 04:21 PM
It may be unworkable to you and the citizens of Isreali but that is what International Law may state.

According to who? Where is your evidence for this?


And you by supporting a two state non-right of return solution are condoning their criminal actions.

Unsubstantiated idiocy. :hand:

I am terminating this discussion now because you have engaged in a groundless personal attack. As always on this subject your fanaticism and bias makes you incapable of civil discussion unless the other party agrees with you and causes you to uselessly froth and foam in an incoherent manner. You asked me to comment, then insult me for commenting - why on earth should I comment in future? Consider yourself on virtual ignore on this thread for a while.

antichrist
02-07-2018, 07:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1dJztXtnvQ

At 2.50min here is a FBI guy on Fox news saying that Hamas and Hezbollah have legitimate goals.

Capablanca-Fan
09-07-2018, 02:13 AM
“Palestinians” say Australia’s decision to withhold funds over payments to jihad murderers is a “declaration of war” (https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/07/palestinians-say-australias-decision-to-withhold-funds-over-payments-to-jihad-murderers-is-a-declaration-of-war)
BY ROBERT SPENCER, Jihad Watch, 6 July 2018

Advanced victimhood posturing: finance our payments to the killers of Israeli civilians, or we will accuse you of going to war against us.

“Palestinians: Australian Decision to Withhold Funds ‘Declaration of War (http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/2018/july/palestinians-australian-decision-to-withold-funds-declaration-of-war)”, by Chris Mitchell, CBN, July 6, 2018:


JERUSALEM, Israel – The Palestinian Authority accused Australia of making a declaration of war following its decision to withhold financial aid to the PA if it continues to reward terrorists and their families. It’s one more nation pressuring the PA to stop a policy many call “pay to slay.”

The controversial policy provides money to convicted Palestinian terrorists and their families for attacks on Israelis. The payments coming from this fund add up to more than $330 million each year.

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop objected to the policy saying, “I am concerned that in providing funds for this aspect of the PA’s operation, there is an opportunity for it to use its own budget to [fund] activities that Australia would never support.”

antichrist
09-07-2018, 07:22 AM
“Palestinians” say Australia’s decision to withhold funds over payments to jihad murderers is a “declaration of war” (https://www.jihadwatch.org/2018/07/palestinians-say-australias-decision-to-withhold-funds-over-payments-to-jihad-murderers-is-a-declaration-of-war)
BY ROBERT SPENCER, Jihad Watch, 6 July 2018

Advanced victimhood posturing: finance our payments to the killers of Israeli civilians, or we will accuse you of going to war against us.

“Palestinians: Australian Decision to Withhold Funds ‘Declaration of War (http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/2018/july/palestinians-australian-decision-to-withold-funds-declaration-of-war)”, by Chris Mitchell, CBN, July 6, 2018:


JERUSALEM, Israel – The Palestinian Authority accused Australia of making a declaration of war following its decision to withhold financial aid to the PA if it continues to reward terrorists and their families. It’s one more nation pressuring the PA to stop a policy many call “pay to slay.”

The controversial policy provides money to convicted Palestinian terrorists and their families for attacks on Israelis. The payments coming from this fund add up to more than $330 million each year.

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop objected to the policy saying, “I am concerned that in providing funds for this aspect of the PA’s operation, there is an opportunity for it to use its own budget to [fund] activities that Australia would never support.”

That is right - starve them to death it is quicker and cleaner genocide. Oz should not have to contribute anything, under International Law it is the occupying power's responsibility. Considering that Oz greatly helped in creating the murderous State of course it should contribute to it's victims. It took about 200 years to do so for the Aborigines.

antichrist
04-08-2018, 11:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBlBekw3Uk

an excellent on history of Palestine containing new aspects for myself

antichrist
05-08-2018, 07:04 AM
From Capa Fan: “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

Abba Eban also said: History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.

Palestinians and the world have waited for seventy years for Israel to exhaust all other bad alternatives

antichrist
07-08-2018, 02:25 AM
This Is Why Evangelical Christians Love Israel | VICE on HBO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ

I came across this Christian rubbish decades ago - it shows how destructive the Bible can be.

Capablanca-Fan
11-08-2018, 12:36 PM
“I know that some will say that these boycotts are directed only against Israel, rather than generally against Jews. But given the history of the attacks on Israel and the oppressiveness and aggressiveness of other countries in the Middle East and elsewhere, boycotting Israel indicated a moral blindness for which it is hard to find any explanation other than anti-Semitism.”
—Stephen Weinberg (himself an atheopath)

Patrick Byrom
11-08-2018, 01:14 PM
“I know that some will say that these boycotts are directed only against Israel, rather than generally against Jews. But given the history of the attacks on Israel and the oppressiveness and aggressiveness of other countries in the Middle East and elsewhere, boycotting Israel indicated a moral blindness for which it is hard to find any explanation other than anti-Semitism.”
—Stephen Weinberg (himself an atheopath)Of course, if BDS supporters are anti-semitic, rather than just anti-Israel, it should be easy to provide some quotes by them supporting anti-semitism.

Capablanca-Fan
12-08-2018, 01:26 AM
Of course, if BDS supporters are anti-semitic, rather than just anti-Israel, it should be easy to provide some quotes by them supporting anti-semitism.

BDS supporters single out Israel trying to defend itself against Hamas that wants to wipe it out, and ignore the far worse human rights of other countries. If they were really concerned about human rights, they would go after the worst first.

Harvard Professor of Law Alan Dershowitz shares 5 key reasons why every decent person should reject the BDS movement against Israel. This video was proudly sponsored by the Israel Britain Alliance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG86oDH4OKQ

Patrick Byrom
12-08-2018, 09:07 AM
BDS supporters single out Israel trying to defend itself against Hamas that wants to wipe it out, and ignore the far worse human rights of other countries. If they were really concerned about human rights, they would go after the worst first. ... So no anti-semitic quotes from BDS supporters? As I expected.

Your argument - assuming it's correct - would only demonstrate they're anti-Israel, at worst. For example, I notice that you object to the BDS movement, but ignore Trump's forced removal of children from their parents, which is obviously a far worse violation of human rights.

Ian Murray
13-08-2018, 08:48 AM
The BDS movement by definition is not anti-semitic - it is not an anti-Jewish movement. It aims to rescue Palestinians from Israeli oppression and regain their occupied territories.

Capablanca-Fan
13-08-2018, 12:22 PM
So no anti-semitic quotes from BDS supporters? As I expected.
Nonsense. Singling out the Jewish state for sanctions and boycott over far worse regimes is likely motivated by antisemitism.


Your argument — assuming it's correct — would only demonstrate they're anti-Israel, at worst. For example, I notice that you object to the BDS movement, but ignore Trump's forced removal of children from their parents, which is obviously a far worse violation of human rights.
Take it to the USA politics thread. Any time parents are put in prison for any crime, children are separated from them. Anyway:


Who’s Responsible for Separating Alien Kids From Their Parents? Many People, but Not Trump (https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/whos-responsible-separating-alien-kids-their-parents-many-people-not-trump)
Hans A. von Spakovsky, Heritage Foundation, 22 June 2018

KEY TAKEAWAYS

There is a lot of blame to share. President Bill Clinton, the aliens themselves, the courts and immigration policies foolishly created by the Obama administration.

The point of their propaganda war is to force the Trump administration to terminate its zero-tolerance policy of prosecuting all adult aliens for illegal entry.

It is “regrettable” children are separated from their parents. But “people who cross the border illegally have committed a crime, and this is a consequence.



Patrick Byrom
13-08-2018, 01:12 PM
Nonsense. Singling out the Jewish state for sanctions and boycott over far worse regimes is likely motivated by antisemitism.Then it should be easy for you to supply some anti-semitic quotes from BDS supporters.


Take it to the USA politics thread.I'd already raised it twice there, with no response from you.


Any time parents are put in prison for any crime, children are separated from them. Anyway: ... It's a misdemeanor, not a felony - the parents should not have been imprisoned! And if Trump isn't responsible for it, why did it only start after Trump was elected?

Would you agree that the government forcibly removing children from their parents for a misdemeanor offence is a worse violation of human rights than BDS?

Ian Murray
15-08-2018, 11:23 PM
Israel is ‘becoming a full-blown police state,’ Reza Aslan says after interrogation at border (https://mondoweiss.net/2018/08/israel-becoming-interrogation/)
Mondoweiss
14.8.18

...2 weeks ago, as I was crossing back into Israel from Jordan, I was separated from my family and detained by Shin Bet. “We can make it so you don’t see your kids for a long time” I was warned. This is what happened next.

The Shin Bet lady, who already knew everything about me and my family’s journey around the world, began with “You think because you’re a public person I can’t do whatever I want with you?” I was floored. This is how interrogations begin in police states.

“Why do you hate Israel?” She asked. “I don’t hate Israel,” I replied. “But you hate our Prime Minister.” “I’m sorry is your Prime Minister Israel?” “He was democratically elected!” (No he wasn’t but let’s just drop that) “So was Trump and I hate him and still love America.”

“Oh I know all about you and Trump,” she spat. I forgot the Israeli Right Wing’s affection for our racist Neo-Nazi loving president. “You don’t think Israel should exist yes?” That’s absurd. I’m against the occupation not Israel. Then the police state part began in earnest.

Write down names of Palestinians you know Write down names of journalists you associate with Write down names of Palestinian organizations you support And constantly, repeatedly, this threat: “if you don’t cooperate it will be a long time before you see your kids again.”...

In the end, after hours of this, she warned “I may let you into Israel but, who knows, I may not let you out. I will keep you here and kick out your family. It depends on you. You would miss your kids yes?” That my friends is the classic police state trick. Iran has perfected it.

Her final warning was not to visit the Palestinian Territories. Not to meet with or speak to any Palestinians or any Israeli trouble makers. “We are watching you.”...

antichrist
16-08-2018, 06:44 AM
I was given the same treatment when in 1976 I joined the Friends of the Earth Bicycle Ride group in Canberra to protest in the Israeli Embassy their nuke weapons. I was nominated because being a Lebo I was from the same part of the planet as Israel. Upon entry into the Embassy my being Lebo also caught their attention and they gave me the third degree about being a terrorist. I was escorted into a vault near the entrance, stripped naked and had rods shoved up my anus and all sorts of other inspections to check I was not a Munich Olympics bomber. The ruddy Aussies were left completely alone and give tea and scones. The Embassy completely denied any nuke weapons well that became a Trumpian lie when Mordechai Vanunu split the beans.

antichrist
16-08-2018, 06:52 AM
All that one needs to know about Israel can be captured in the story of Mordechai Vanunu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu

a true hero of the world but was ten years in solitary confinement - Israel is no different to Trump they commit many crimes to cover up earlier crimes

Ian Murray
17-08-2018, 02:31 PM
Israel scores own goal as Argentina match cancelled in victory for Palestinians (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-argentina-cancels-match-world-cup-2018-fifa-palestine-lionel-messi-a8386536.html)
The Independent
6.6.18

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government was smarting on Wednesday from a symbolically powerful setback after Argentina cancelled a friendly football match against Israel following pressure by Palestinians and their supporters.

The cancellation was painful, not only because it disappointed fans, but also because it marked one of the biggest successes yet for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement that seeks to isolate Israel....

antichrist
17-08-2018, 10:52 PM
Israel scores own goal as Argentina match cancelled in victory for Palestinians (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-argentina-cancels-match-world-cup-2018-fifa-palestine-lionel-messi-a8386536.html)
The Independent
6.6.18

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government was smarting on Wednesday from a symbolically powerful setback after Argentina cancelled a friendly football match against Israel following pressure by Palestinians and their supporters.

The cancellation was painful, not only because it disappointed fans, but also because it marked one of the biggest successes yet for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement that seeks to isolate Israel....

Unfortunately the classical music world in OZ still welcomes with open arms musicians from Israel, at least in the good old protesting days in the seventies re apartheid a sportsman may have been obliged to denounce their government's evil actions.

Don't I deserve special mention due my Israeli embassy experience

MichaelBaron
22-08-2018, 02:41 PM
Israel scores own goal as Argentina match cancelled in victory for Palestinians (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-argentina-cancels-match-world-cup-2018-fifa-palestine-lionel-messi-a8386536.html)
The Independent
6.6.18

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government was smarting on Wednesday from a symbolically powerful setback after Argentina cancelled a friendly football match against Israel following pressure by Palestinians and their supporters.

The cancellation was painful, not only because it disappointed fans, but also because it marked one of the biggest successes yet for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement that seeks to isolate Israel....

The cancellation was a sheer disgrace! And one wonders why Israeli players could not participate at the chess rapid championships in Saudi Arabia...if Argentina wanted to support Palestina, may be they could arrange additional match with Palestina instead rather than cancel one against Israel. At least Palestinians play soccer...better than they play chess.

antichrist
23-08-2018, 12:34 AM
The cancellation was a sheer disgrace! And one wonders why Israeli players could not participate at the chess rapid championships in Saudi Arabia...if Argentina wanted to support Palestina, may be they could arrange additional match with Palestina instead rather than cancel one against Israel. At least Palestinians play soccer...better than they play chess.

Funny you mention soccer team because they are famous for their team not being able to practise together due to all the notorious Israeli roadblocks dividing Palestine. The best Israeli I have come across are those who have surrendered their Israeli nationality due to what their government was doing to the Palestinians. But I did have one Israeli backpacker work for me who supported the Palestinians - his name was Gal. I have given work to about 10 over the years. They are excellent workers but usually too often rough that I put down to them have being in the army. Their massages are too strong as well. And I have beaten every one of them at chess.

MichaelBaron
23-08-2018, 12:43 AM
And I have beaten every one of them at chess.

Israel is a small country... but a big chess nation. Number 1000 chess player in Israel can beat any Indigenous Australian in Chess :). Re Palestine - their top chess player is rated 100 points below me...

MichaelBaron
23-08-2018, 12:46 AM
Israel is a small country... but a big chess nation. Number 1000 chess player in Israel can beat any Indigenous Australian in Chess :). Re Palestine - their top chess player is rated 100 points below me...

And the top player playing for Palestine is from South America. All locals are under 2100

antichrist
23-08-2018, 10:02 AM
Israel is a small country... but a big chess nation. Number 1000 chess player in Israel can beat any Indigenous Australian in Chess :). Re Palestine - their top chess player is rated 100 points below me...

Don't be too sure of that - that is only on paper. Unfortunately many of our native brethren have in prison in disproportionate numbers and what do they do in prison? Play chess. I know one ex-prisoner who has beaten true champions in non-rated games. An extremely tough fighter to the end. If he had the chance to study chess books who knows how far he would have gone. Due to Aborigines having advanced capacity than white invaders at remembering visual aspects I have always wanted the challenge of coaching them but not got around to it yet. I also have a 90 year old Austrian neighbour with excellent mental facilities who I want the challenge to coach. Must rush off catch you later. Btw if there are angry brown snakes chasing you then you would choose an Aborigine over any race to save you, any day of the week. They will do a diving somersault to catch the snake around the neck and tie it up before the snakes knows anything.

MichaelBaron
23-08-2018, 03:47 PM
Btw if there are angry brown snakes chasing you then you would choose an Aborigine over any race to save you, any day of the week. They will do a diving somersault to catch the snake around the neck and tie it up before the snakes knows anything.

The key is not to 'choose'' any nationalities/races but to eliminate all kinds of discrimination (including the so called ''positive discrimination) and to treat all equally. I would love to see those indigenous drinkers i see wondering around melbourne CBD doing summersaults. :). In every nation - some got ''skills'' and some do not.

Needless to say, some cultures encourage certain skills and activities more than others...

antichrist
23-08-2018, 07:02 PM
The key is not to 'choose'' any nationalities/races but to eliminate all kinds of discrimination (including the so called ''positive discrimination) and to treat all equally. I would love to see those indigenous drinkers i see wondering around melbourne CBD doing summersaults. :). In every nation - some got ''skills'' and some do not.

Needless to say, some cultures encourage certain skills and activities more than others...

Michael, you ignore the fact that you are without consent on their land. That land was taken by force and as yet there is no treaty. Alcoholism was not part of their culture so it is a symptom of their conquest and destruction as a people. I hope I can bring up here. The Jewish people were fortunate enough to earn retrospective land rights in Israel a few thousand years after their "state" was demolished. In most cases they are "only" based on culture/religion and not race. The Aborigines are only denied their land for a few hundred years so they are generally thought to have a much stronger case than a 2,000 year old claim. So if there is not discrimination and not positive discrimination how come the Jews get their state and the Aborigines do not? Just as the Jews were sinned against in Europe so were the Aborigines in Australia!

Desmond
23-08-2018, 08:29 PM
Number 1000 chess player in Israel can beat any Indigenous Australian in Chess :). Baron is not a racist, but...

Kevin Bonham
23-08-2018, 09:52 PM
Israel is a small country... but a big chess nation. Number 1000 chess player in Israel can beat any Indigenous Australian in Chess :).

On a very good day maybe. According to FIDE the 1000th-ranked active Israeli player is rated 270 points below the strongest Indigenous Australian who I am aware of. If we include inactive players the latter would be just outside the top 1000 but quite likely many of the inactive ones are not as strong as their ratings and some may even be dead, so my money is on the Indigenous Australian.

Since you seem to know so much about the playing strength of Indigenous Australians, can you tell me who Australia's strongest Indigenous player actually is? Do you even know? I think I do, but there might be a stronger one I don't know about.

antichrist
23-08-2018, 10:50 PM
I think the Aborigines would have more boxing champions than Israel.

Patrick Byrom
23-08-2018, 11:58 PM
I think the Aborigines would have more boxing champions than Israel.Not to mention cricket, rugby union, rugby league, ...

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 12:02 AM
On a very good day maybe. According to FIDE the 1000th-ranked active Israeli player is rated 270 points below the strongest Indigenous Australian who I am aware of. If we include inactive players the latter would be just outside the top 1000 but quite likely many of the inactive ones are not as strong as their ratings and some may even be dead, so my money is on the Indigenous Australian. ... Shouldn't Michael be comparing Indigenous Australian chess players to Indigenous Israeli chess players - most of the top Israeli players seem to be immigrants.

MichaelBaron
24-08-2018, 12:19 AM
I think the Aborigines would have more boxing champions than Israel.

I am pretty sure they got boxers, restlelrs, rugby players. …:)

MichaelBaron
24-08-2018, 12:21 AM
Shouldn't Michael be comparing Indigenous Australian chess players to Indigenous Israeli chess players - most of the top Israeli players seem to be immigrants.

1) they are all ethnic jews 2) Tamir Nabaty for instance was born in Israel
So who is the strongest Australian Indigenous chess player? One problem with chess....no rating points given based on ''positive discrimination'' - everything has to be earned :)

Capablanca-Fan
24-08-2018, 12:24 AM
Michael, you ignore the fact that you are without consent on their land.
So are you. Lead by example and leave.

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 01:29 AM
1) they are all ethnic jews 2) Tamir Nabaty for instance was born in IsraelWhat is the relevance of your first point? All Indigenous Australians were born in Australia, so their chess strength should be compared only to Israelis born in Israel.

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 01:31 AM
I am pretty sure they got boxers, restlelrs, rugby players. …:)I doubt the Israeli rugby league team would stand a chance against an Indigenous Australian team :)

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 01:32 AM
One problem with chess....no rating points given based on ''positive discrimination'' - everything has to be earned :)Indigenous players don't get special treatment in rugby league.

MichaelBaron
24-08-2018, 02:43 AM
What is the relevance of your first point? All Indigenous Australians were born in Australia, so their chess strength should be compared only to Israelis born in Israel.

Cool, compare them to GM Nabaty then :)

MichaelBaron
24-08-2018, 02:44 AM
I doubt the Israeli rugby league team would stand a chance against an Indigenous Australian team :)

Any intellectual sport Indigenous team excels in? :)

Desmond
24-08-2018, 06:41 AM
Any intellectual sport Indigenous team excels in? :)

Care to mention a dozen intellectual team sports that would qualify?

Ian Murray
24-08-2018, 08:28 AM
The fact remains that Israel tried to politicise a friendly international match by moving it to Jerusalem, so Argentina avoided the backlash.

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 10:05 AM
Cool, compare them to GM Nabaty then :)Okay, so Nabaty is stronger than any Australian player, Indigenous or not - which proves what?

Of course, Indigenous Australian chess players have ancestors who have lived in Australia for many thousands of years. So I would like to see a list of Israeli chess players whose ancestors have lived for thousands of years where Israel would be located.

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 10:07 AM
Any intellectual sport Indigenous team excels in? :)Jason Gillespie is a top cricket coach (and player) - coaching is an intellectual activity, isn't it :)

MichaelBaron
24-08-2018, 11:24 AM
Jason Gillespie is a top cricket coach (and player) - coaching is an intellectual activity, isn't it :)

I am sure, you got top rugby coaches etc. ready. Any world-known chemists, mathematicians etc. (I do not mean winner of Australian awards as we know how these local awards are given and on what basis as I've seen how indigenous students are being propelled to awards in Universities) what have they discovered? P.S I am not sure all sports coaches in sports like rugby and cricket are great intellectuals. Think of soccer. Maradona was coaching after his career ended. Hardly an intellectual :)

MichaelBaron
24-08-2018, 11:25 AM
Okay, so Nabaty is stronger than any Australian player, Indigenous or not - which proves what?

Of course, Indigenous Australian chess players have ancestors who have lived in Australia for many thousands of years. So I would like to see a list of Israeli chess players whose ancestors have lived for thousands of years where Israel would be located.

lol. I guess the Indigenous did not know there is something called chess till the ''white people'' came.

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 01:21 PM
lol. I guess the Indigenous did not know there is something called chess till the ''white people'' came.So no list of 'Indigenous' Israeli chess players? I guess Indigenous Aussie chess players must be stronger than the Israeli ones.

Patrick Byrom
24-08-2018, 01:22 PM
I am sure, you got top rugby coaches etc. ready. Any world-known chemists, mathematicians etc. (I do not mean winner of Australian awards as we know how these local awards are given and on what basis as I've seen how indigenous students are being propelled to awards in Universities) what have they discovered? P.S I am not sure all sports coaches in sports like rugby and cricket are great intellectuals. Think of soccer. Maradona was coaching after his career ended. Hardly an intellectual :)
Gillespie has a much better reputation as a coach than Maradona.

antichrist
24-08-2018, 02:35 PM
1) they are all ethnic jews 2) Tamir Nabaty for instance was born in Israel
So who is the strongest Australian Indigenous chess player? One problem with chess....no rating points given based on ''positive discrimination'' - everything has to be earned :)

Should that be they are all religious Jews? If they appeared like Arab Jews I would concede they are ethnic Jews. I think many/most would have greater ethnic links to Europe than the Middle East.

Kevin Bonham
24-08-2018, 06:45 PM
So who is the strongest Australian Indigenous chess player?

The fact that you have to ask shows that you were just jumping to conclusions before.

https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=3210685

(Unless there is a stronger one unknown to me.)

Kevin Bonham
24-08-2018, 06:48 PM
lol. I guess the Indigenous did not know there is something called chess till the ''white people'' came.

There's a lot they did know that the "white people" had no idea about.

Why on earth did you even mention them on this thread? It seems to be a gratuitous, racially disparaging (and factually false) mention out of nowhere. Is there any good reason why I shouldn't delete that whole strand of discussion, other than to leave your cluelessness on public display?

Desmond
25-08-2018, 08:59 AM
Jason Gillespie is a top cricket coach (and player) - coaching is an intellectual activity, isn't it :)

Yeah good luck with that, I'm still waiting to hear any example of what sport would meet the "I'm not a racist, but" 's definition of a an intellectual team sport, with even a single example. Now goal post moving to academia.

Patrick Byrom
25-08-2018, 01:59 PM
Yeah good luck with that, I'm still waiting to hear any example of what sport would meet the "I'm not a racist, but" 's definition of a an intellectual team sport, with even a single example. Now goal post moving to academia.And completely abandoning the thread topic - at least the comparisons between Aussies and Israelis had some tenuous connection to it.

Ian Murray
26-10-2018, 04:22 PM
Interview: How Palestinian Authorities Crush Dissent (https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/23/interview-how-palestinian-authorities-crush-dissent)
Human Rights Watch
23.10.18

Palestinian officials in both the West Bank and Gaza are crushing dissent by arbitrarily arresting and torturing dissidents and opponents. Omar Shakir, Human Rights Watch’s Israel and Palestine director, talks with Amy Braunschweiger about what his team’s two years of research has uncovered....

antichrist
26-10-2018, 04:32 PM
Interview: How Palestinian Authorities Crush Dissent (https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/23/interview-how-palestinian-authorities-crush-dissent)
Human Rights Watch
23.10.18

Palestinian officials in both the West Bank and Gaza are crushing dissent by arbitrarily arresting and torturing dissidents and opponents. Omar Shakir, Human Rights Watch’s Israel and Palestine director, talks with Amy Braunschweiger about what his team’s two years of research has uncovered....

Exactly the same as Israel re that dissendant nuclear scientist and Palestinians they arrest. Of course shocking what they do to their own but extreme religion has taken a hold there plus politics has become tribalised and primitive due to 70 years of constant battle. The best and the worse comes through.

Capablanca-Fan
31-10-2018, 01:58 PM
Muslim Americans raise more than $120,000 for those affected by Pittsburgh synagogue shooting (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/muslim-americans-raise-more-120-000-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-survivors-n925796?fbclid=IwAR0r1Rqn1GjepeI076fHa3Iq9XTz4p8NR TcNhztTLRD6uXV8A0hVbNHir0o)
“We just want to know what you need ... If it’s people outside your next service protecting you, let us know. We’ll be there.”
By Reynaldo Leanos, Jr. and Rima Abdelkade, NBC News, 29 Oct 2018

A Muslim American group has raised more than $125,000 through an online crowdfunding campaign to help families affected by Saturday's mass shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh, which killed at least 11.

CelebrateMercy, one of the organizers of the campaign, told NBC News that the money will assist families with medical bills, funeral expenses and other immediate and short-term needs.

Tarek El-Messidi, the group’s founding director, says his hope through the fundraiser is "to respond to evil with good.”

antichrist
31-10-2018, 05:01 PM
Muslim Americans raise more than $120,000 for those affected by Pittsburgh synagogue shooting (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/muslim-americans-raise-more-120-000-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-survivors-n925796?fbclid=IwAR0r1Rqn1GjepeI076fHa3Iq9XTz4p8NR TcNhztTLRD6uXV8A0hVbNHir0o)
“We just want to know what you need ... If it’s people outside your next service protecting you, let us know. We’ll be there.”
By Reynaldo Leanos, Jr. and Rima Abdelkade, NBC News, 29 Oct 2018

A Muslim American group has raised more than $125,000 through an online crowdfunding campaign to help families affected by Saturday's mass shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh, which killed at least 11.

CelebrateMercy, one of the organizers of the campaign, told NBC News that the money will assist families with medical bills, funeral expenses and other immediate and short-term needs.

Tarek El-Messidi, the group’s founding director, says his hope through the fundraiser is "to respond to evil with good.”

it shows that all people can be human when not being sabotaged - only the American indians still have a grudge

Capablanca-Fan
13-11-2018, 02:32 PM
Hamas Fires Record Number Of Rockets At Israel. U.N. Sec-Gen.: Exercise Restraint (https://www.dailywire.com/news/38274/hamas-fires-record-number-rockets-israel-un-sec-hank-berrien)
Hank Berrien, 12 Nov 2018


Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon, asked the U.N. Security council to condemn the firing of rockets from Gaza, but while Hamas was attempting to murder as many Jews as they could, United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres pusillanimously urged all sides to exercise maximum restraint. His spokesman, Farhan Haq, stated, “He urges all parties to exercise maximum restraint. The United Nations Special Coordinator, Nickolay Mladenov, is working closely with Egypt and all concerned parties to restore calm.”

Danon had stated, " … after a day of rocket barrages, there is no room for any other definition of Hamas except that of terrorist organization. To the world it presents its civilians as victims, but then uses them as human shields … Israel cooperated with all international bodies, including the U.N., but the aggressive escalation from Gaza indicates that there are elements pushing for another round of violence that will cause destruction and losses within the Gaza Strip."

antichrist
13-11-2018, 03:44 PM
Hamas Fires Record Number Of Rockets At Israel. U.N. Sec-Gen.: Exercise Restraint (https://www.dailywire.com/news/38274/hamas-fires-record-number-rockets-israel-un-sec-hank-berrien)
Hank Berrien, 12 Nov 2018


Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon, asked the U.N. Security council to condemn the firing of rockets from Gaza, but while Hamas was attempting to murder as many Jews as they could, United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres pusillanimously urged all sides to exercise maximum restraint. His spokesman, Farhan Haq, stated, “He urges all parties to exercise maximum restraint. The United Nations Special Coordinator, Nickolay Mladenov, is working closely with Egypt and all concerned parties to restore calm.”

Danon had stated, " … after a day of rocket barrages, there is no room for any other definition of Hamas except that of terrorist organization. To the world it presents its civilians as victims, but then uses them as human shields … Israel cooperated with all international bodies, including the U.N., but the aggressive escalation from Gaza indicates that there are elements pushing for another round of violence that will cause destruction and losses within the Gaza Strip."


Well the Palestinians are breeding more not less and they are being squeezed into smaller areas everyday so there has to be explosion somewhere, sometime, somehow.

antichrist
13-11-2018, 04:03 PM
Capa Fan
your signature line: “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly
------------------------------------------------------------

Admittingly this guy was amazing as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban shows.


Eban continued at the United Nations over the next decade. From 1950 to 1959 he also served as his country's ambassador to the United States.[9] He was renowned for his oratorical skills. In the words of Henry Kissinger:

I have never encountered anyone who matched his command of the English language. Sentences poured forth in mellifluous constructions complicated enough to test the listener’s intelligence and simultaneously leave him transfixed by the speaker's virtuosity.[10]

His grasp of history and fluency in ten languages enhanced his speech-making in the United Nations, even to skeptical or hostile audiences.[11] In 1952, Eban was elected Vice President of the UN General Assembly.[12] A collection of Eban's speeches before the United Nations’ Security Council and General Assembly both at universities and other venues between 1948 and 1968 was compiled in Voice of Israel,[13] recently reissued in eBook form by Plunkett Lake Press.

He was known for his witty remarks. For example, when he was complemented on his perfect Oxford English he replied "Cambridge actually, but in politics one expects to be smeared".[14]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now this guy was a UN specialists for years and linguist but what error is there in your signature line?

Ian Murray
13-11-2018, 05:37 PM
... but the aggressive escalation from Gaza indicates that there are elements pushing for another round of violence that will cause destruction and losses within the Gaza Strip."


Here we go, round again, but what started the exchange was an IDF raid and air strikes two miles inside the Gaza border:

Botched Israeli army operation in Gaza triggers sharp escalation in violence (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/covert-israeli-military-operation-in-gaza-exposed-igniting-new-tensions/2018/11/12/05aaddb4-e651-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?utm_term=.5ba719401784)
Washington Post
12.11.18

A new round of hostilities triggered by a botched Israeli covert operation in the Gaza Strip pushed the territory’s fragile security situation to the brink on Monday, as Palestinian militants launched hundreds of rockets toward Israel and Israeli jets carried out bombing raids....

The Israeli military remained tight-lipped about the incident but said a covert operation had been underway at least two miles inside the Gaza Strip when the unit’s presence was somehow exposed. An exchange of fire between the troops and Palestinian fighters ensued, turning deadly and leading to the Israeli unit’s call for backup from the air....

Capablanca-Fan
14-11-2018, 01:35 AM
This sounds like a legitimate military operation against military targets, so it doesn't justify the normal Hamas thug tactic of targeting Israeli civilians and using their own civilians as human shields.

Ian Murray
14-11-2018, 08:56 AM
This sounds like a legitimate military operation against military targets, so it doesn't justify the normal Hamas thug tactic of targeting Israeli civilians and using their own civilians as human shields.

A violent military incursion, presumably a kidnapping raid as an assassination plan has been denied, is not legitimate - having the power to do so does not give Israel the right. Hamas does not have air power or artillery to retaliate, unlike Israel, so uses its only effective weaponry, its rocket arsenal.

If Israel moved military targets within rocket range, I'm sure Hamas would be happy to engage them.

antichrist
14-11-2018, 09:16 AM
Capa Fan
your signature line: “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly
------------------------------------------------------------

Admittingly this guy was amazing as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Eban shows.

.....................
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now this guy was a UN specialists for years and linguist but what error is there in your signature line?

If Algeria introduced a resolution - should be If Algeria introduced a motion - it only becomes a resolution after it is resolved.

Capablanca-Fan
24-11-2018, 07:31 AM
Airbnb’s ban on Israeli settlements is shameful (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/airbnbs-ban-on-israeli-settlements-is-shameful)
Brendan O'Neill, Spectator, 22 November 2018

Airbnb has taken the extraordinary decision to stop advertising homes for rent in Jewish settlements in the West Bank. It is extraordinary because Airbnb still advertises places to stay in Tibet, a place many Tibetans consider to be unjustly dominated by China. And in Crimea, recently annexed by Russia. And in Northern Cyprus, a Turkish-ruled statelet since the mid-1970s, which only Turkey recognises as a legitimate state, and to which Turkey has sent huge numbers of settlers in recent decades. Why are Turkish settlers less offensive to the Western conscience than Jewish ones? Why is it OK to rent a holiday apartment in Turkish-settled Northern Cyprus but not in Israeli-settled parts of the West Bank? Anyone?

Their attempts to answer this question of why are spectacularly unconvincing. ‘Our governments support Israel, so we have a special responsibility to kick up a fuss about this’, they say. Our governments support the Turks and Saudis too. ‘The Israeli conflict is an old and bloody one and deserves our attention’, they insist. The Turk-Kurd conflict is old and bloody too. ‘Palestinians are asking us to take these kinds of actions against Israel’, they protest. The Kurds would also like some solidarity, only you can’t hear them over the din of your obsessive, myopic loathing of Israel above every other state. Their attempts to explain why — why they loathe Israel so much — only makes the whole thing more mysterious.

And then they wonder why some people think there is a whiff of anti-Semitism to this peculiarly passionate contempt for Israel and for every piece of fruit, piece of art and piece of academic literature it produces. They wonder why some people think the line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism is an increasingly thin one and that perhaps the special hatred for Israel might have echoes of the older special hatred for Those People.

‘It is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel!’, they say. And they are absolutely right. Every single nation and government should be up for debate, ridicule, protest. But we aren’t talking about straightforward criticism of Israel here. We are talking about the singling out of Israel above all nations for a ceaseless and intense programme of boycotting, protesting and hysterical accusations, primarily that Israel is ‘genocidal’, ‘apartheid’, ‘racist’. Show me the gathering of 100,000 people in London who said those things about Saudi Arabia and then I’ll buy the idea that Israel is just being criticised as all other states are criticised.

antichrist
24-11-2018, 08:41 AM
Airbnb’s ban on Israeli settlements is shameful (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/airbnbs-ban-on-israeli-settlements-is-shameful)
Brendan O'Neill, Spectator, 22 November 2018..............


Capa Fan, there could be one importance difference in all the instances mentioned - it is that the Palestinians were pushed off the Occupied Territory whereas the other examples the abused people still have their homeland. There have been millions of Palestinian refugees for 70 years that is not the case with the other suffering parties. There is not the virtual racism and apartheid as blatant as in Palestine

antichrist
06-12-2018, 12:58 PM
Airbnb’s ban on Israeli settlements is shameful (https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/airbnbs-ban-on-israeli-settlements-is-shameful)
Brendan O'Neill, Spectator, 22 November 2018

Airbnb has taken the extraordinary decision to stop advertising homes for rent in Jewish settlements in the West Bank. It is extraordinary because Airbnb still advertises places to stay in Tibet, a place many Tibetans consider to be unjustly dominated by China. And in Crimea, recently annexed by Russia. And in Northern Cyprus, a Turkish-ruled statelet since the mid-1970s, which only Turkey recognises as a legitimate state, and to which Turkey has sent huge numbers of settlers in recent decades. Why are Turkish settlers less offensive to the Western conscience than Jewish ones? Why is it OK to rent a holiday apartment in Turkish-settled Northern Cyprus but not in Israeli-settled parts of the West Bank? Anyone?

Their attempts to answer this question of why are spectacularly unconvincing. ‘Our governments support Israel, so we have a special responsibility to kick up a fuss about this’, they say. Our governments support the Turks and Saudis too. ‘The Israeli conflict is an old and bloody one and deserves our attention’, they insist. The Turk-Kurd conflict is old and bloody too. ‘Palestinians are asking us to take these kinds of actions against Israel’, they protest. The Kurds would also like some solidarity, only you can’t hear them over the din of your obsessive, myopic loathing of Israel above every other state. Their attempts to explain why — why they loathe Israel so much — only makes the whole thing more mysterious.

And then they wonder why some people think there is a whiff of anti-Semitism to this peculiarly passionate contempt for Israel and for every piece of fruit, piece of art and piece of academic literature it produces. They wonder why some people think the line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism is an increasingly thin one and that perhaps the special hatred for Israel might have echoes of the older special hatred for Those People.

‘It is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel!’, they say. And they are absolutely right. Every single nation and government should be up for debate, ridicule, protest. But we aren’t talking about straightforward criticism of Israel here. We are talking about the singling out of Israel above all nations for a ceaseless and intense programme of boycotting, protesting and hysterical accusations, primarily that Israel is ‘genocidal’, ‘apartheid’, ‘racist’. Show me the gathering of 100,000 people in London who said those things about Saudi Arabia and then I’ll buy the idea that Israel is just being criticised as all other states are criticised.


Look at it in the long term Capa Fan
My folk were the Canaanites (see Wiki at bottom) that the Jewish Arabs from Babylon proudly (in their Holy Book) committed God-sanctioned atrocities against thousands of years ago (Joshua's longest day). Thousands of years later the same people are still causing havoc in the Middle East - that is by people not genetically linked to Lebanon/Palestine but to Babylon and Euro-Asia. How is this relevant - because they use their history as a basis for continued occupancy in the Middle East. It is a con job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_people
According to a study published by the American Journal of Human Genetics, present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age.[105][106] More specifically, according to Chris Tyler-Smith, a geneticist and his colleagues at the Sanger Institute in Britain, who compared "sampled ancient DNA from five Canaanite people who lived 3,750 and 3,650 years ago" to modern people. "The comparison revealed that 90 percent of the genetic ancestry of people in Lebanon came from the Canaanites. (The other 10 percent was of a Eurasian steppe population.)"[107]

Ian Murray
23-12-2018, 07:11 PM
The Harsh Logic of Palestinian Dispossession (https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/palestine-dispossession-evictions-occupation-israel-bds-violence)
Jacobin
22.12.18

The world has come to know the dire situation in Palestine via graphic eruptions of violence such as those we witnessed recently at the Great March of Return — state violence purposefully enacted against men, women, children, disabled people, journalists, and medics. Yet little of the day to day acts of oppression and humiliation — acts that indeed drive people to despair — are reported, rendering our understanding of the human crisis in Palestine extremely limited.

But a recent event points out the unrelenting, devastating nature of the Occupation, illuminating the Kafkaesque and immensely cruel program of Israeli dominance and humiliation. Israel’s continued construction of illegal settlements on the West Bank has resulted in the demolition of Palestinian homes, buildings, and entire villages for some time now. Israel is now requiring Palestinians to destroy their homes themselves, or face prison time, as Al Jazeera recently reported.

To understand this tactic of erasing a people requires a thorough understanding of the Israeli Occupation of Palestinian Territories.

The “harsh logic” of the occupation comes from the name of a book compiled by an Israeli human rights organization, Breaking the Silence, a group of Israeli soldiers who banded together to give witness to the Occupation. Our Harsh Logic: Israeli Solders’ Testimonies from the Occupied Territories, 2000–2010 collected 145 testimonies that named the core aims of the Occupation — they were charged with “demonstrating a presence” and the “searing of consciousness” among Palestinians that their state of oppression was to be permanent.

Since 2012 things have gotten exponentially worse for Palestinians, in both Gaza and on the West Bank. Everyday life in both places shows the scars and the wounding of life tethered to the occupation’s logic. Forcing Palestinians to destroy their own homes is as much an act of psychological warfare as it is one of brutal and direct destruction....

Patrick Byrom
01-01-2019, 07:49 PM
Let's hope this never happens in Australia: (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/To-protect-Israel-Texas-sacrifices-the-13483003.php)

Too many Texans have already been subjected to this ill-considered mandate. Last year, this law prompted the city of Dickinson to require residents to pledge not to boycott Israel in order to receive aid in the wake of Hurricane Harvey. After public outcry, the city limited the requirement to businesses rather than individual homeowners. Lawsuits have challenged similar contract requirements in Arizona, Kansas and Arkansas. Pledges not to boycott Israel are also required in state contracts in Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Nevada, and Ohio. Twenty-six states have some form of law on the books aiming to discourage people from engaging in boycotts for Palestinian rights. These laws are brazen violations of the right to free speech. Why would a Texas school district or public radio station need contractors to sign an oath of loyalty to Israel? Why are so many lawmakers adopting obviously unconstitutional laws?

Capablanca-Fan
06-01-2019, 04:02 PM
The New York Times Incentivizes Hamas Violence (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13498/the-new-york-times-incentivizes-hamas-violence)
by Alan M. Dershowitz
4 January 2019


While Hamas is happy to boast openly about their fighters tearing at the border fences in Gaza and hiding behind civilians to evade Israeli soldiers—the New York Times makes no mention of this. Israeli soldiers are portrayed as faceless killing machines, without a single reference to the fire kites, terror tunnels, rockets or cross border explosive devices utilized by the Palestinians, or to the double war crime of Hamas targeting Israeli civilians by firing rockets from behind Palestinian civilians.
These Israeli civilians are not occupiers or usurpers. They live in Israel proper not in occupied or disputed territory. This area was built from scratch by Israelis on barren desert land and the Israelis have a right to be protected from fire bombs and mobs determined to breach the protective fence. How would other nations respond to such threats? Certainly not by treating these dangerous mobs as peaceful protestors merely exercising their freedom of speech and assembly.
The Times's absurd conclusion that the shooter may have committed a "war crime," ignores the law of war crimes.
Contrast what Israel does with how the Palestinians treat terrorists who willfully target and kill Jewish children, women and other civilians. The Palestinian Authority pays their families rewards—in effect bounties—for their willful acts of murder. Hamas promotes and lionizes terrorists who kill Jews. But you would not know any of that from reading the one-sided New York Times screed. … All in all, it is a shockingly irresponsible report.

Patrick Byrom
06-01-2019, 04:17 PM
The New York Times Incentivizes Hamas Violence (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13498/the-new-york-times-incentivizes-hamas-violence) by Alan M. Dershowitz 4 January 2019
...
These Israeli civilians are not occupiers or usurpers. They live in Israel proper not in occupied or disputed territory. This area was built from scratch by Israelis on barren desert land and the Israelis have a right to be protected from fire bombs and mobs determined to breach the protective fence. How would other nations respond to such threats? Certainly not by treating these dangerous mobs as peaceful protestors merely exercising their freedom of speech and assembly.
So peaceful Israeli civilians in Israel deserve to be protected - absolutely agree. But peaceful Palestinian civilians in Palestine are part of a dangerous mob and must be eliminated!? Maybe Dershowitz (and you) should deal with your own double standards before criticising others.

Ian Murray
08-01-2019, 01:17 PM
Well worth viewing

The Occupation of the American Mind (https://www.occupationmovie.org/)

antichrist
13-05-2019, 11:05 PM
The Washington Post reports on a law signed by Trump last year — the Justice for Uncompensated Survivors Today Act — that aims to help Jews seek compensation for property lost during the Holocaust.

I wonder if the Palestinians will also have a law enacted by the USA that will help the Palestinians to also get compensation for what Israel has done to them for 71 years?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/05/13/how-polands-far-right-nationalists-went-celebrating-trump-rallying-against-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.89dfd3f19a54

antichrist
13-05-2019, 11:10 PM
Well worth viewing

The Occupation of the American Mind (https://www.occupationmovie.org/)

I will be checking out this video tomorrow, thanks

Capablanca-Fan
26-05-2019, 03:58 AM
The Jews driven out of homes in Arab lands (https://www.thejc.com/culture/features/the-jews-driven-out-of-homes-in-arab-lands-1.448713)
The removal of the Jews from the Arab world has been all but ignored, says Tom Gross
(Foreword by Tom Gross to a new book ‘Uprooted: How 3,000 years of Jewish civilization in the Arab world vanished overnight’ by Lyn Julius. Tom Gross is a former Middle East correspondent for the Sunday Telegraph.)

In Israel, 160,000 Arabs stayed after the country’s rebirth in 1948 and took Israeli citizenship. (That number is now 1.7 million, representing over 20 per cent of Israel’s population, and Israeli Arabs serve in posts ranging from Supreme Court justices to Israeli diplomats). And when Israel declared independence following the UN partition plan, many of the Palestinian Arabs who left were not pushed out, but departed on the orders of their own leadership so as to stay out of the way when several Arab armies marched in with the aim of wiping out the Jews.

In sharp contrast, the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Jews from the Arab world in the mid-20th century was systematic, absolute and unprovoked.

There were 38,000 Jews in western Libya before 1945. Now there are none; 47 synagogues are gone and a highway runs through Libya’s main Jewish cemetery. In Algeria, there were 140,000 Jews. Now there are none. In Iraq, there were about 150,000 Jews. Five remain. There were 80,000 Jews in Egypt. Almost all are gone.

Many Jewish refugees from the Arab world still suffer the trauma of armed men arriving at their door, and being marched away without explanation and without being able to take their possessions.

Unlike Palestinian refugees who left in smaller numbers (between 1948 and 1951, according to UN statistics, 711,000 Palestinian Arabs left what became Israel, although many historians put the numbers at fewer than this) the 856,000 Jews who were made refugees from Arab countries have never received any proper recognition or international financial help. Instead, there is wilful ignorance. So, for example, in Cairo today, the Swiss, German, Canadian, Dutch, South Korean and Pakistani embassies all occupy the stolen homes of wealthy, expelled Jews. Similar situations exist in some other Arab capitals.

Adding to the injustice, some Middle East commentators like to propagate the myth that the Jews of the Arab world were never discriminated against or persecuted or attacked.

antichrist
27-05-2019, 11:02 AM
The Jews driven out of homes in Arab lands (https://www.thejc.com/culture/features/the-jews-driven-out-of-homes-in-arab-lands-1.448713)
The removal of the Jews from the Arab world has been all but ignored, says Tom Gross
(Foreword by Tom Gross to a new book ‘Uprooted: How 3,000 years of Jewish civilization in the Arab world vanished overnight’ by Lyn Julius. Tom Gross is a former Middle East correspondent for the Sunday Telegraph.)

In Israel, 160,000 Arabs stayed after the country’s rebirth in 1948 and took Israeli citizenship. (That number is now 1.7 million, representing over 20 per cent of Israel’s population, and Israeli Arabs serve in posts ranging from Supreme Court justices to Israeli diplomats). And when Israel declared independence following the UN partition plan, many of the Palestinian Arabs who left were not pushed out, but departed on the orders of their own leadership so as to stay out of the way when several Arab armies marched in with the aim of wiping out the Jews.

In sharp contrast, the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Jews from the Arab world in the mid-20th century was systematic, absolute and unprovoked.

There were 38,000 Jews in western Libya before 1945. Now there are none; 47 synagogues are gone and a highway runs through Libya’s main Jewish cemetery. In Algeria, there were 140,000 Jews. Now there are none. In Iraq, there were about 150,000 Jews. Five remain. There were 80,000 Jews in Egypt. Almost all are gone.

Many Jewish refugees from the Arab world still suffer the trauma of armed men arriving at their door, and being marched away without explanation and without being able to take their possessions.

Unlike Palestinian refugees who left in smaller numbers (between 1948 and 1951, according to UN statistics, 711,000 Palestinian Arabs left what became Israel, although many historians put the numbers at fewer than this) the 856,000 Jews who were made refugees from Arab countries have never received any proper recognition or international financial help. Instead, there is wilful ignorance. So, for example, in Cairo today, the Swiss, German, Canadian, Dutch, South Korean and Pakistani embassies all occupy the stolen homes of wealthy, expelled Jews. Similar situations exist in some other Arab capitals.

Adding to the injustice, some Middle East commentators like to propagate the myth that the Jews of the Arab world were never discriminated against or persecuted or attacked.


Capa Fan, with this post I, with conditions, agree with you Why, because they are ethnic Jews - a branch of Arabs and they belong in the Arab world in the old Babylon. Of course there are the complications of the politics of non-ethnic Jews that led to the expulsion of ethnic Jews. There was the infamous False Flag event by Jews in Egypt. I have met ex-Moroccan Jews in Australia, they came here via Israel and are Israeli citizens. They loved and miss Morocco - they had Arab culture and were fully accepted until Israeli politics got involved.

It is solely the European religious Jews settling in now Israel that I object to causing the strife in the Middle East.

Ian Murray
30-05-2019, 07:35 PM
Bibi can't raise the numbers to form a government after the recent elections, so Israelis are headed back to the polls!

Analysis: Netanyahu Just Suffered One of the Biggest Losses of His Political Career (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-netanyahu-just-suffered-one-of-the-biggest-losses-of-his-political-career-1.7305540)
Haaretz
30.5.19

Patrick Byrom
31-05-2019, 11:03 PM
Bibi can't raise the numbers to form a government after the recent elections, so Israelis are headed back to the polls!That they are actually having another election is a bit unusual, as although Netanyahu failed to form a government, nobody else was invited to try, and parliament was dissolved.

Ian Murray
01-06-2019, 02:06 PM
That they are actually having another election is a bit unusual, as although Netanyahu failed to form a government, nobody else was invited to try, and parliament was dissolved.

Bibi shut down the Knesset before anyone else was given a chance to try to form a governing coalition. Not that a new coalition was likely to get the numbers without Likud.

Capablanca-Fan
02-06-2019, 02:52 AM
In Anti-Israel Boycott, Palestine Swears Off Israeli Hospitals — Leaving Its Civilians Untreated (https://www.mikehuckabee.com/latest-news?id=F51F0948-4941-42D8-8836-D017BDE4B3C6&s=6VUJ)
Luke Rosiak, Western Journal, 31 May 2019

The Palestinian Authority will prevent its own people from receiving life-saving treatments at Israeli hospitals as part of a boycott aimed at harming Israel.

The PA, which pays the families of terrorists to reward them for anti-Israel attacks, is angry that Israel started deducting that money from tax revenue that it pays the PA.

Even pro-Palestinian observers turned their heads at the move, which has sick and vulnerable Palestinians serving as pawns in a game of politics.

Weeks after the policy went into effect, the PA exempted one of its own politicians from the policy, allowing him to receive treatment at one of Israel’s well-regarded hospitals.

A critic with an Israeli nonprofit, Nan Jacques Zilberdik, told JNS: “Not only do ordinary Palestinians have to forgo medical care in Israel because the P.A. is adamant about paying high salaries to terrorists, Palestinians also have to witness one of their own leaders getting treatment in a Israeli hospital that for them is out of bounds.

“Someone should give Rajoub a copy of Orwell’s Animal Farm.”

Rajoub is receiving medical care in an Israeli facility despite going on TV and calling Palestinians who killed Israelis “heroes,” JNS said.

antichrist
07-06-2019, 12:37 AM
Whatever happened to the Wye River Memorandum?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wye_River_Memorandum

Political impact in Israel
The Wye agreement was broadly popular in Israel, with 74% of Israelis supporting the agreement according to early-November polling.[8] However, Prime Minister Netanyahu sensed opposition within his Likud party and delayed a vote of cabinet approval while he sought public assurances from the Clinton administration about the implementation of Wye. Rather than join a national unity government with opposition leader Ehud Barak, Netanyahu tried to assuage Likud hardliners by stopping implementation of Wye in early December over confrontations between Palestinian protesters and Israeli soldiers.[9] Disapproval of Netanyahu's policies from Barak's Labor Party and the Likud right resulted in a vote of no confidence against his government that prompted general elections in May 1999; Barak was victorious and pledged to continue the Israeli–Palestinian peace process.

Ian Murray
10-06-2019, 07:13 PM
For Israelis the Nakba is a footnote. For Palestinians it's the heart of the conflict (https://972mag.com/israels-nakba-palestinians-conflict/141627/)
+972
25.5.19

To large portions of the Jewish Israeli public, the Nakba was small event — an historical side note. To most Palestinians, on the other hand, it is a huge, exceptionally brutal, and vastly important part of their history. In order to understand why there is such a vast disparity in the way the Nakba is perceived by Israelis and Palestinians, despite very little contention as to the objective size of the event — 700,000 people were deported and dispossessed, which today we would call ethnic cleansing — one must look back several hundred years....

antichrist
10-06-2019, 07:22 PM
I agree the situation seems so hopeless and is so hopeless but is not without a glimmer of light. Check out the link below and you will find that there are Jewish communities who on Nakba Day hold ceremonies sympathetic to the Palestinians.

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/06/reclaim-judaism-zionism/

The liberal side of Jews have maybe always been fantastic.

Capablanca-Fan
16-06-2019, 08:42 AM
French Imam Leads 40 Muslim Educators in Visit to Knesset (https://unitedwithisrael.org/french-imam-leads-40-muslim-educators-in-visit-to-knesset)

Dubbed “Imam of the Jews,” Imam Hassen Chalghoumi is known for promoting ties with Israel and representing an alternative to radical Islam.

By TPS
United with Israel
14 June 2019

French Imam Hassen Chalghoumi, a central public figure and founder of the “Conference of Imams,” visited the Knesset on Wednesday as the head of a delegation of 40 Muslim educators from France and met with Israeli officials.

Chalghoumi is known for his efforts to promote moderate Islam and his criticism of radical Islam and fundamentalism, as well as his actions to encourage inter-religious dialogue and collaboration.

Chalghoumi is on his second visit to the Jewish state as part of a visit organized by the European Leadership Network (ELNET), which brings together leaders who believe in the importance of close relations between Europe and Israel.

In France, he is viewed as an Islamic leader who represents an essential alternative to radical movements. He also maintains a close relationship with the Jewish community of France and recognizes the existence of the Jewish state in the land of Israel.

MichaelBaron
16-06-2019, 10:16 AM
French Imam Leads 40 Muslim Educators in Visit to Knesset (https://unitedwithisrael.org/french-imam-leads-40-muslim-educators-in-visit-to-knesset)

Dubbed “Imam of the Jews,” Imam Hassen Chalghoumi is known for promoting ties with Israel and representing an alternative to radical Islam.

By TPS
United with Israel
14 June 2019

French Imam Hassen Chalghoumi, a central public figure and founder of the “Conference of Imams,” visited the Knesset on Wednesday as the head of a delegation of 40 Muslim educators from France and met with Israeli officials.

Chalghoumi is known for his efforts to promote moderate Islam and his criticism of radical Islam and fundamentalism, as well as his actions to encourage inter-religious dialogue and collaboration.

Chalghoumi is on his second visit to the Jewish state as part of a visit organized by the European Leadership Network (ELNET), which brings together leaders who believe in the importance of close relations between Europe and Israel.

In France, he is viewed as an Islamic leader who represents an essential alternative to radical movements. He also maintains a close relationship with the Jewish community of France and recognizes the existence of the Jewish state in the land of Israel.

Good job.
So does our own (Australian) Imam Tahidi...This is why he keeps getting death threats from the radical Islamists :).

antichrist
16-06-2019, 11:44 AM
Good job.
So does our own (Australian) Imam Tahidi...This is why he keeps getting death threats from the radical Islamists :).

I don't understand how they can compromise in allowing European Jews to settle in Palestine when it means displacing more Palestinians to accommodate them. That is strictly speaking why Israel should not be recognised at all as a Jewish state - it is built on relative and recent and current robbery.

antichrist
21-06-2019, 05:02 PM
https://dissidentvoice.org/2008/09/israel-turns-gaza-into-prison-for-uconn-fulbright-scholar/

Israel Turns Gaza Into Prison For UConn Fulbright Scholar

I know Michael Baron respects and wants such scholars for Australian so I hopes he also petitions Israel.

Capablanca-Fan
21-06-2019, 11:53 PM
https://dissidentvoice.org/2008/09/israel-turns-gaza-into-prison-for-uconn-fulbright-scholar/

Israel Turns Gaza Into Prison For UConn Fulbright Scholar

I know Michael Baron respects and wants such scholars for Australian so I hopes he also petitions Israel.

You might want to pick articles that are NOT over ten years old. He IS in Australia now (https://www.unsw.adfa.edu.au/our-people/dr-zohair-abu-shaban), after he received his Ph.D. from the Australian National University (ANU) in 2018.

antichrist
22-06-2019, 09:48 AM
You might want to pick articles that are NOT over ten years old. He IS in Australia now (https://www.unsw.adfa.edu.au/our-people/dr-zohair-abu-shaban), after he received his Ph.D. from the Australian National University (ANU) in 2018.

I was originally referring to the below link but due to being busy just jumped on the link in previous post. The guy in below link was recently reported in the Washington Post story but unfortunately I cannot access it any longer as I don't subscribe. So I have jumped on the Muslim link as is the only one available. But it is worth reading his sad story on the WP site. He was one of the contenders to lead the PLO.

I know this link is 2015 but the recent WP story states he was in prison for 11 years This guy is made of the same stuff as John McCain - only on the other side of the fence.
Trump would not fill this guys big toe.
http://www.muslimlinkpaper.com/community-news/community-news/38
34-jailed-and-abandoned-abdelhaleem-ashqar-continues-to-live-by-his-principles.html

Here is another link on the same guy - his only crime being that he opposed Jewish stealing of Palestinian land. I wish the same would happen to western countries so they may change their warped attitudes.
https://theintercept.com/2019/06/21/palestinian-activist-ice-deportation-war-on-terror/

antichrist
22-06-2019, 11:54 AM
This quote from the un-Holy book proves that in Jewish eyes that they were only invaders to Canaan, that is Palestine, so they have no right to Palestine.

Lev 18:3 “You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes.” (ESV)

Ian Murray
02-07-2019, 12:16 PM
‘I am sick of being in a community that can’t have an adult relationship with Israel’ (https://plus61j.net.au/featured/sick-community-cant-adult-relationship-israel/)
+61J
1.7.19

WHO HAS AN OPINION on Donald Trump? What do you think about Brexit? How about Australia’s treatment of refugees? There is no shortage of opinions and diverse views, and people are happy to express them. These are signs of a healthy democracy, where people can disagree, argue and make up their own minds.

The Sydney synagogue I belong to prides itself on diversity. It has multiple, parallel minyanim and ways to pray. It embraces different ways you can comprise a family and even those exploring different gender identities. All are made to feel welcome.

Yet when it comes to how we talk about Israel, Jewish community leaders insist on controlling the conversation. Why do we let the predominantly older, male hierarchy do so? I didn’t vote for any of them to speak on my behalf. Did you?...

antichrist
02-07-2019, 01:28 PM
‘I am sick of being in a community that can’t have an adult relationship with Israel’ (https://plus61j.net.au/featured/sick-community-cant-adult-relationship-israel/)
+61J
1.7.19

WHO HAS AN OPINION on Donald Trump? What do you think about Brexit? How about Australia’s treatment of refugees? There is no shortage of opinions and diverse views, and people are happy to express them. These are signs of a healthy democracy, where people can disagree, argue and make up their own minds.

The Sydney synagogue I belong to prides itself on diversity. It has multiple, parallel minyanim and ways to pray. It embraces different ways you can comprise a family and even those exploring different gender identities. All are made to feel welcome.

Yet when it comes to how we talk about Israel, Jewish community leaders insist on controlling the conversation. Why do we let the predominantly older, male hierarchy do so? I didn’t vote for any of them to speak on my behalf. Did you?...

But you must realise that those dissidents are ONLY self-hating Jews - not real Jews. Talk about giving Jewry a bad name! Now even in Canada, as well as Germany I think, they equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism and so now anti-Zionists also get censured and maybe prosecuted. Soon we will not be able to say that Aborigines are the true owners of this land.

Ian Murray
12-07-2019, 01:30 PM
Mother, child banned from park; refugees’ kids refused school enrolment (https://plus61j.net.au/panel-picks/mother-child-banned-park-refugees-kids-refused-school-enrolment/)

Entry ban at Israeli city park provokes apartheid warnings (https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/entry-ban-israeli-city-park-provokes-apartheid-warnings)

Israeli Municipality Blocks Children of Asylum Seekers From Enrolling in School (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-municipality-blocks-children-of-asylum-seekers-from-enrolling-in-school-1.7485234)

Capablanca-Fan
20-07-2019, 02:15 PM
Trump Admin Honors Muslim Cleric Who Hid 262 Christians During Terror Attack (https://www.dailywire.com/news/49687/trump-admin-honors-muslim-cleric-who-hid-262-ryan-saavedra)
Ryan Saavedra, Daily Wire, 19 July 2019

The Trump administration honored an 83-year-old Muslim cleric from Nigeria this week who saved hundreds of Christians in 2018 — when he hid them in his home and mosque during a terrorist attack.

The State Department honored Imam Abubakar Abdullahi at an awards ceremony on Wednesday for his actions on June 23, 2018, when "ethnic Fulani herdsmen, who are predominantly Muslim, launched coordinated attacks on 10 villages in Barkin Ladi, killing hundreds of ethnic Berom farmers, who are predominantly Christian."

"As Imam Abdullahi was finishing midday prayers, he and his congregation heard gunshots and went outside to see members of the town’s Christian community fleeing," the State Department added. "Instinctively, the Imam ushered 262 Christians into the mosque and his home next to the mosque. The Imam then went outside to confront the gunmen and he refused to allow them to enter, pleading with them to spare the Christians inside, even offering to sacrifice his life for theirs. Although the gunmen killed 84 people in Nghar village that day, Imam Abdullahi’s actions saved the lives of hundreds more."

International Religious Freedom Ambassador Sam Brownback said at the event, "The imam gave refuge to his Christian neighbors, sheltering 262 Christians in his mosque and his home. ... then stood outside the doors confronting the Muslim attackers, pleading with them to spare the lives of the Christians inside, even offering to exchange his own life for theirs."

antichrist
20-07-2019, 02:50 PM
Capa Fan, now how about if that block of dirt you have purchased in USA was all of a sudden pulled out from under you due to natives having occupied that land 500 years ago? well that is exactly what the Zionists did to the Palestinians. They came there via terror about 2,800 years ago and have now come back for a second helping. But it is worse than that because many of the modern invaders are not Arabs and/or Middle Eastern like the original Hebrews were.

Capablanca-Fan
25-07-2019, 08:52 AM
House overwhelmingly OKs resolution opposing Israel boycott in rare bipartisan vote (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/in-rare-bipartisan-vote-house-overwhelmingly-oks-resolution-in-support-of-israel)
Frank Miles, Fox News, 23 July 2019

The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved a bipartisan resolution Tuesday opposing an international effort to boycott Israel as Democrats try to tamp down increasingly heated political rhetoric over differences with the longtime U.S. ally.

The resolution passed on a vote of 398-17. Reps. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., were among the 16 Democrats who voted against the resolution. Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., was the only Republican to vote "no." Rep. Justin Amash, I-Mich., [of ‘Palestinian’ parentage] was one of five lawmakers who voted "present."

"A two-state solution remains the best way to justly resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and ensure a future for two peoples living side-by-side in peace, security and prosperity," the resolution said. "By denying the Jewish claim to a homeland, the BDS Movement is fundamentally incompatible with a two-state solution and pushes the cause of peace for both Israel and the Palestinians further out of reach. This resolution makes clear that Congress remains committed to a two-state solution and opposes zero-sum efforts to delegitimize the state of Israel.”

"We must reject the blatant anti-Semitics injected throughout BDS," said Zeldin [Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y.].

“Israel is our best ally in the Mid East; a beacon of hope, freedom & liberty, surrounded by existential threats,” Zeldin wrote in a tweet. “Shame on Rep Omar for bringing her hateful twist on that reality to House Foreign today, propping up the BDS movement & blaming Israel for all of its challenges.”

An earlier version of the resolution passed the Senate with robust bipartisan support earlier this year. But the Senate bill, which was part of a broader foreign policy package, stalled in the House amid concerns over First Amendment rights and the ability of Americans to protest Israel's policies.

antichrist
25-07-2019, 08:56 AM
House overwhelmingly OKs resolution opposing Israel boycott in rare bipartisan vote (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/in-rare-bipartisan-vote-house-overwhelmingly-oks-resolution-in-support-of-israel)
Frank Miles, Fox News, 23 July 2019

The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved a bipartisan resolution Tuesday opposing an international effort to boycott Israel as Democrats try to tamp down increasingly heated political rhetoric over differences with the longtime U.S. ally.

The resolution passed on a vote of 398-17. Reps. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., were among the 16 Democrats who voted against the resolution. Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., was the only Republican to vote "no." Rep. Justin Amash, I-Mich., [of ‘Palestinian’ parentage] was one of five lawmakers who voted "present."

"A two-state solution remains the best way to justly resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and ensure a future for two peoples living side-by-side in peace, security and prosperity," the resolution said. "By denying the Jewish claim to a homeland, the BDS Movement is fundamentally incompatible with a two-state solution and pushes the cause of peace for both Israel and the Palestinians further out of reach. This resolution makes clear that Congress remains committed to a two-state solution and opposes zero-sum efforts to delegitimize the state of Israel.”

"We must reject the blatant anti-Semitics injected throughout BDS," said Zeldin [Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y.].

“Israel is our best ally in the Mid East; a beacon of hope, freedom & liberty, surrounded by existential threats,” Zeldin wrote in a tweet. “Shame on Rep Omar for bringing her hateful twist on that reality to House Foreign today, propping up the BDS movement & blaming Israel for all of its challenges.”

An earlier version of the resolution passed the Senate with robust bipartisan support earlier this year. But the Senate bill, which was part of a broader foreign policy package, stalled in the House amid concerns over First Amendment rights and the ability of Americans to protest Israel's policies.


It has being made illegal in a few countries, Canada and Germany I think, to join the BDS movement, it has being declared an anti-Semitic movement. I was expecting a similar ban on this site. If I propose will you second the motion?

Capablanca-Fan
29-07-2019, 01:56 PM
The top 12 ways Israel is feeding the world (https://www.israel21c.org/the-top-12-ways-israel-feeds-the-world)
From drip irrigation to hardier seeds, Israeli innovations help fill hungry bellies everywhere, particularly in the developing world.
By Abigail Klein Leichman, ISRAEL21c, 21 MAY 2019

1. Drip irrigation

While the concept of drip irrigation existed well before Israeli statehood, it was revolutionized by Israeli water engineer Simcha Blass in the 1960s and continues to transform farming across the globe.

Blass’s slow-release tubing formed the basis of the world-renowned Netafim company (sold for $1.5 billion to Mexichem in 2017) and other Israeli drip-irrigation and micro-irrigation businesses whose solutions are used worldwide.

One example of how Israeli drip irrigation has impacted food supply in foreign countries is Tipa (Drop), a kit that enables gravity to irrigate when there is no water pressure in rural areas. The Israeli Foreign Ministry has provided Tipa kits to hundreds of famers in Senegal, Kenya, South Africa, Benin and Niger.

An average of 70% of the world’s water goes toward irrigation, partly because some areas still use wasteful flood irrigation. Israeli ag-tech companies such as CropX, Saturas, Manna and SupPlant help customers across the world implement efficient drip irrigation programs to use less water and produce more and better crops.

Ian Murray
29-07-2019, 03:27 PM
The top 12 ways Israel is feeding the world (https://www.israel21c.org/the-top-12-ways-israel-feeds-the-world)
From drip irrigation to hardier seeds, Israeli innovations help fill hungry bellies everywhere, particularly in the developing world. By Abigail Klein Leichman, ISRAEL21c, 21 MAY 2019


Israeli scientific research certainly produces some remarkable results. As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention.

So does Australian research (https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/AF), driven by similar imperatives.

Desmond
29-07-2019, 06:50 PM
They are also quite strong in cyber security companies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/gilpress/2019/02/26/israeli-startups-shine-in-the-92-billion-cybersecurity-market/#45ca3a67451d) - Eg Checkpoint and others.

Capablanca-Fan
30-07-2019, 08:59 AM
Israeli scientific research certainly produces some remarkable results. As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention.

So does Australian research (https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/AF), driven by similar imperatives.

But necessity doesn't always lead to invention. The article documented how Israel is helping the rest of the world with its innovations, but many of the countries helped must have had the necessity but not theb invention.

Ian Murray
30-07-2019, 09:49 AM
But necessity doesn't always lead to invention. The article documented how Israel is helping the rest of the world with its innovations, but many of the countries helped must have had the necessity but not theb invention.

Most developing countries do not have sophisticated R&D infrastructure enabling such innovations. First-world countries do have the capacity, and are spending squillions on agtech research. Israel is one of the crowd.

antichrist
30-07-2019, 04:02 PM
Most developing countries do not have sophisticated R&D infrastructure enabling such innovations. First-world countries do have the capacity, and are spending squillions on agtech research. Israel is one of the crowd.
With the help of USA taxpayers money

antichrist
11-08-2019, 09:25 PM
Was Bobby Kennedy assassinated due to his support for Zionism in Palestine?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Robert_F._Kennedy

Kennedy was 22 years old in 1948 when he visited the British Mandate of Palestine and wrote dispatches for The Boston Post about the trip and its effect on him.[7] During his stay, he wrote that he grew to admire the Jewish inhabitants of the area, and he became a strong supporter and advocate for Israel when he became a Senator.[8]

Capablanca-Fan
18-08-2019, 03:01 AM
What are you arguing for here? That those who oppose Israel include vicious assassins? We already knew that.

antichrist
18-08-2019, 05:49 AM
What are you arguing for here? That those who oppose Israel include vicious assassins? We already knew that.

I can't recall at the time it was mentioned as linked to the Palestinian cause and him being a good Christian. Shows that losing your land is more important than Christian solidarity. Silly Bobby got sucked in by propaganda and ignoring important principles of fairness and justice. It was due to Bobby wanting to rush fighter planes over - no wonder Sirhan was upset.

antichrist
18-08-2019, 06:08 AM
Well put Cat, and my I say its good to see you back.

cheers fg7

I sincerely wish Cat you would humour us with your presence once more.

Capablanca-Fan
27-08-2019, 01:44 AM
How Arabic has influenced modern Hebrew:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymr6BvTK98E

antichrist
27-08-2019, 05:55 AM
How Arabic has influenced modern Hebrew:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymr6BvTK98E

I consider ancient Hebrew as just another Arabic dialect. It is interesting how the non-Arabic Jews could not handle the correct Arabic pronunciations just as they cannot handle correctly Arabic cooking that they often refer to as Middle Eastern cooking. When you see the sign M/E cooking that is when you run. It is like me doing Chinese cooking. Essentially not much flavour, even Ariel Sharon would send his driver to Lebanon to get the real deal babaganou. Though I am only familiar with the Lebanese dialect I could still understand many of the Arabic words. The video also shows how the European Jews are the odd man out in the M/E.

Capablanca-Fan
01-09-2019, 04:26 AM
Ilhan Omar Withdraws Support From Bill To Save The Earth After Learning That’s Where Israel Is (https://babylonbee.com/news/ilhan-omar-withdraws-support-from-bill-to-save-the-earth-after-learning-thats-where-israel-is)
The Babylon Bee*, 7 Mar 2019

Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal hit a snag when it lost the support of another freshman representative, Ilhan Omar. Omar had been an enthusiastic supporter of the Green New Deal and wanted to save the earth, but then she noticed something very disturbing when looking at a map of the earth: Earth is the planet on which Israel resides.

“You’ve been hypnotized by the Jews!” Omar accused a surprised Ocasio-Cortez. Omar then ripped up a copy of the Green New Deal. “This is just a plot to help Israel keep existing! Did AIPAC pay you off?”


* Note to AC: this is a satire site.

ER
24-09-2019, 01:33 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/moment-sydney-airport-bomb-plot-failed-caught-on-cctv/ar-AAHIgvw

the moment guy interrogated by the feds swears to God he knows nothing about it!
or another reason why one should think twice before claiming that terror attacks and stuff like that will never happen in Australia!

Ian Murray
24-09-2019, 09:32 AM
Kernel of hope in a country back from the brink of disintegration (https://plus61j.net.au/featured/kernel-hope-country-pulled-back-brink-disintegration/)
+61J
23.9.19

IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT to ensure his immunity from prosecution for criminal charges of bribery and corruption, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made these elections, like the three previous ones, into a referendum about himself.

He gambled on gaining the 61-seat majority that would give him immunity and he lost.

That doesn’t mean he won’t be the next prime minister. Israeli coalitions are formed based on the third-grade arithmetic of who can gather up the biggest number of seats in the Knesset. That leaves lots of room for horse trading, including the childish game of who-has-to-go-first that the parties are now playing.

Nor do we know what Netanyahu might do to try to stay in government. We already know that he is willing to do just about anything – no matter how illegal, how inciteful, or how reckless – to keep himself in power and out of jail.

Yet even in the midst of this uncertainty, there are some very important things that we already do know about Israeli society. And for the first time in a long time, even though things could get a lot worse before they begin to get better, I feel hopeful. Not euphoric, not entranced with our future possibilities – yet hopeful...

antichrist
24-09-2019, 07:22 PM
Kernel of hope in a country back from the brink of disintegration (https://plus61j.net.au/featured/kernel-hope-country-pulled-back-brink-disintegration/)
+61J
23.9.19

IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT to ensure his immunity from prosecution for criminal charges of bribery and corruption, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made these elections, like the three previous ones, into a referendum about himself.

He gambled on gaining the 61-seat majority that would give him immunity and he lost.

That doesn’t mean he won’t be the next prime minister. Israeli coalitions are formed based on the third-grade arithmetic of who can gather up the biggest number of seats in the Knesset. That leaves lots of room for horse trading, including the childish game of who-has-to-go-first that the parties are now playing.

Nor do we know what Netanyahu might do to try to stay in government. We already know that he is willing to do just about anything – no matter how illegal, how inciteful, or how reckless – to keep himself in power and out of jail.

Yet even in the midst of this uncertainty, there are some very important things that we already do know about Israeli society. And for the first time in a long time, even though things could get a lot worse before they begin to get better, I feel hopeful. Not euphoric, not entranced with our future possibilities – yet hopeful...

I was getting mixed up reading your post, I thought you may have been writing about The Donald.

Ian Murray
24-09-2019, 07:49 PM
I was getting mixed up reading your post, I thought you may have been writing about The Donald.

The US is not yet back from the brink

ER
04-10-2019, 04:47 AM
Egypt is doing fine though! no.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49926472

Capablanca-Fan
04-10-2019, 06:01 AM
I was getting mixed up reading your post, I thought you may have been writing about The Donald.

About the same suspects: leftards who lost at the ballot box are trying to get both Trump and Netanyahu with bogus criminal charges.

Ian Murray
04-10-2019, 09:49 AM
About the same suspects: leftards who lost at the ballot box are trying to get both Trump and Netanyahu with bogus criminal charges.

No-one should be above the law

Israel Attorney General to Charge Prime Minister Netanyahu With Bribery, Fraud (https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-attorney-general-to-charge-prime-minister-netanyahu-with-bribery-fraud-11551372317)
Wall Street Journal
1.3.19

Israel’s attorney general said he intends to charge Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu with bribery, fraud and breach of trust, imperiling Mr. Netanyahu’s bid to become the country’s longest-serving leader in an April election.

The charges are connected to three corruption probes and follow two years of investigations into the premier.

The allegations include charges that Mr. Netanyahu tried to influence media coverage of him and his family, along with accepting gifts from two billionaire businessmen in return for favors....

Capablanca-Fan
09-10-2019, 11:16 AM
Arab plumbers refuse to charge client after learning she’s a Holocaust survivor (https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-plumbers-refuse-to-charge-client-after-learning-shes-a-holocaust-survivor)
Rosa Meir, 95, of Haifa says gesture by brothers was ‘so moving and uplifting’
By Times of Israel STAFF
8 October 2019

Two Arab Israeli plumbers in the northern city of Haifa waived a NIS 1,000 ($285) service fee after learning their client was a 95-year-old Holocaust survivor.

After the work was completed, he removed his notepad to bill her, and wrote: “Holocaust survivor, may you have health until 120 [years old], from Matari Simon and Matari Salim,” adding that the cost of the service was “0 shekels.”

Rosa was brought to tears, the report said.

Capablanca-Fan
19-10-2019, 11:37 AM
U.N. Elects Venezuela to Human Rights Council (https://reason.com/2019/10/18/u-n-elects-venezuela-to-human-rights-council/)
The council's design all but ensures absurdities like this.
CHRISTIAN BRITSCHGI, Reason, 19 Oct 2019

The United Nations' Office of the High Commissioner of Human Rights Venezuela released a blistering report (https://reason.com/2019/07/05/venezuelan-government-uses-arbitrary-arrests-torture-and-death-squads-to-keep-order-u-n-finds/) on Venezuela in July. It found that President Nicolas Maduro's government engaged in widespread human rights abuses, including the torture and murder of political opponents and average citizens.

Yesterday, Venezuela was also elected to the United Nations' Human Rights Council, an intergovernmental body charged with "strengthening the promotion and protection of human rights."

Also being elected to fill several of the 14 vacant seats on the 47-member council were Mauritania—where local human rights groups estimate that up to 20 percent of the population is enslaved—and Sudan, currently led by a hybrid civilian-military council chaired by a general who overthrew the last president in a coup.

Ian Murray
19-10-2019, 01:37 PM
U.N. Elects Venezuela to Human Rights Council (https://reason.com/2019/10/18/u-n-elects-venezuela-to-human-rights-council/)


114 of the 193 UN member states have served as Human Rights Council Members (https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/Membership.aspx): Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia (Plurinational State of), Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Chile, China, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Czechia, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Guatemala, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Libya, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Republic of North Macedonia, Romania, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Thailand, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of), Viet Nam, Zambia.

That's a pretty even spread

Capablanca-Fan
19-10-2019, 11:32 PM
114 of the 193 UN member states have served as Human Rights Council Members (https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/Membership.aspx): Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia (Plurinational State of), Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Chile, China, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Czechia, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Guatemala, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Libya, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Republic of North Macedonia, Romania, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Thailand, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of), Viet Nam, Zambia.

That's a pretty even spread

That just reinforces my point: the UN is a kakistocracy that has long outlived its usefulness. I hope that President Trump is enough of a disruptor who doesn't care what the chattering classes think and just pulls out of the UN. It already funds a disproportionately high amount of it, and what does it get in return but hatred from the kakistocrats?

Capablanca-Fan
19-10-2019, 11:33 PM
No-one should be above the law

No one should be below the law either, including its protections such as presumption of innocence. And sometimes the law can overcriminalize. What Netanyahu is alleged to have done would not even be a crime in the USA.

antichrist
20-10-2019, 05:47 AM
That just reinforces my point: the UN is a kakistocracy that has long outlived its usefulness. I hope that President Trump is enough of a disruptor who doesn't care what the chattering classes think and just pulls out of the UN. It already funds a disproportionately high amount of it, and what does it get in return but hatred from the kakistocrats?

I sometimes also wish it would pull out so Israel can be rightfully censured for it's criminal action and then declared a criminal state and disbanded. No USA veto bring it on.

Capablanca-Fan
20-10-2019, 05:57 AM
I sometimes also wish it would pull out so Israel can be rightfully censured for its criminal action and then declared a criminal state and disbanded. No USA veto bring it on.

I don't think Israel would care what the UN did if it lacked US dollars.

Do you seriously believe that Israel is a worse human rights violator than countries like Iran, Venezuela, China, …? It wouldn't even rank in the bottom half of countries.

antichrist
20-10-2019, 06:40 AM
I don't think Israel would care what the UN did if it lacked US dollars.

Do you seriously believe that Israel is a worse human rights violator than countries like Iran, Venezuela, China, …? It wouldn't even rank in the bottom half of countries.

We could mirror image and ask would Israel even exist without US$ for the past 120 years

Ian Murray
20-10-2019, 10:25 AM
That just reinforces my point: the UN is a kakistocracy that has long outlived its usefulness. ...

On the contrary, it reflects the basic principle of the UN - the sovereign equality of all its member states.

Capablanca-Fan
20-10-2019, 10:34 AM
On the contrary, it reflects the basic principle of the UN - the sovereign equality of all its member states.

Yet another reason to get out, if such absurd moral equivalence between murderous dictatorships and participatory democracies and republics. The UN has outlived its usefulness as an organization formed by the victors of WW2. Sure, let them have their little get togethers, but not on the dimes of American taxpayers.

Ian Murray
21-10-2019, 06:34 PM
Yet another reason to get out, if such absurd moral equivalence between murderous dictatorships and participatory democracies and republics. The UN has outlived its usefulness as an organization formed by the victors of WW2. Sure, let them have their little get togethers, but not on the dimes of American taxpayers.

The UN is an international forum of sovereign states; their domestic political proclivities are decided by themselves.

Apart from seeking to settle differences between states without recourse to armed conflict, the UN manages many essential services for the benefit of all, like UNHCR, UNICEF, UNDP, ICAO, WTO, WMO, FAO

Ian Murray
29-10-2019, 08:40 AM
Israeli NGO that turned solar power into a weapon against annexation (https://plus61j.net.au/featured/israeli-ngo-turned-solar-power-weapon-annexation/)
+61J
28.10.19

...It’s a quiet revolution by left-wing Israelis that is dealing a palpable blow to their own government’s 52-year-old occupation of the West Bank, which is otherwise grinding on with no end in sight.

By helping vulnerable Palestinians stay put, Comet has set back hopes on the Israeli Right that they could be pressed to leave rural area C, under full Israeli control and home to the settlements, and relocate to the cities of area A, in the Palestinian self-rule enclaves, like nearby Yatta. In practice Comet, which marked its tenth anniversary in October, is an active player in the turf battle over what self-rule agreements define as area C.

That is land that Palestinians view as the vital hinterland of their future state but which a growing number of Israelis want to annex. Israel considers much of the Palestinian building in area C to be illegal because it lacks permits. However, these permits are virtually impossible to obtain....

antichrist
29-10-2019, 09:33 AM
The left/liberals of USA are essentially blind to Palestinian plight so there is little hope for Palestinians. One commenter in American got the sack for being sympathetic to them. Actually Trump could make America impotent and thus weaken Israel's international support. But Israel is virtually at the stage that it does not need American support any more
You first read it here.

ER
29-10-2019, 09:24 PM
But Israel is virtually at the stage that it does not need American support any more
You first read it here.

Fake news, as fake as your signature claim! :D :P

Capablanca-Fan
04-11-2019, 10:33 AM
The UN is an international forum of sovereign states; their domestic political proclivities are decided by themselves.
Still no reason to take these thugocracies as any sort of moral authority, or give them lots of money.


Apart from seeking to settle differences between states without recourse to armed conflict, the UN manages many essential services for the benefit of all, like UNHCR, UNICEF, UNDP, ICAO, WTO, WMO, FAO
Fine, let them manage without the USA paying much more than its fair share. It's also questionable whether some of them do more good than harm, e.g. Popular U.N. Food Agency Roiled by Internal Problems, Survey Finds (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/08/world-food-program-un-survey-finds-abuse-discrimination/) and of course Child sexual abuse by UN peacekeepers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers).

Capablanca-Fan
04-11-2019, 10:48 AM
Terror Stings Its Pal, the U.N. (http://jbinteraction.com/sefaranu/miscellanium/politic/un.htm)
By Alan M. Dershowitz, Los Angeles Times, 28 Aug 2003

Who does share the blame with the terrorists themselves for the horrific explosion that killed and injured so many innocent people? Although the primary culprit is clearly the terrorist group that planned and executed the mass murder, the secondary culprit is the U.N. itself.

For more than a quarter of a century, the U.N. has actively encouraged terrorism by rewarding its primary practitioners, legitimating it as a tactic, condemning its victims when they try to defend themselves and describing the murderers of innocent children as "freedom fighters." No organization in the world today has accorded so much legitimacy to terrorism as has the U.N.

Consider the following:

• There are numerous occupied peoples around the world seeking statehood or national liberation, including the Tibetans, Kurds, Turkish Armenians and Palestinians. Only one of these groups has received official recognition by the U.N., including observer status and invitations to speak and participate in committee work. That group is the one that invented and perfected modern international terrorism — namely, the Palestinians.

These rewards were first bestowed in the 1970s when the Palestine Liberation Organization was unabashedly committed to terrorism. In fact, Chairman Yasser Arafat was invited to speak to the U.N. General Assembly in 1974 at a time when his organization was seeking to destroy a member-state of the U.N. by terrorism.

By rewarding Arafat and the PLO for such behavior, the U.N. made it clear that the best way to ensure that your cause is leapfrogged ahead of others is to adopt terrorism as your primary means of protest. The Tibetans, whose land has been occupied more brutally and for a longer period than the Palestinians, but who have never practiced terrorism, cannot even receive a hearing from the U.N.

• The U.N. has for years refused to condemn terrorism unequivocally, while encouraging and upholding "the legitimacy of the struggle for national liberation movements" against "occupation" — in other words, the use of terrorism against innocent civilians to resist occupation. This has sent the message to aggrieved groups that terrorism is legitimate.

• The U.N. has repeatedly condemned efforts by Israel to prevent and respond to terrorism. For example, the Security Council condemned Israel for isolating Arafat in the West Bank last year, even after it was proved that Arafat remained complicit in acts of terrorism.

This has sent the message to the victims of terrorism that if they fight back they risk sanctions.

Ian Murray
06-11-2019, 07:53 AM
Outrage after leaked video shows Israeli officer shoot Palestinian in the back (https://mondoweiss.net/2019/11/outrage-after-leaked-video-shows-israeli-officer-shoot-palestinian-in-the-back/?utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=b0dd292dd2-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_11_05&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b86bace129-b0dd292dd2-398533981&mc_cid=b0dd292dd2&mc_eid=41040e258b)

Palestinian social media erupted over the weekend as people expressed their outrage over a leaked video showing and Israeli border police officer shooting a Palestinian in the back as the man walked away from the officers, his hands raised in the air....

Capablanca-Fan
07-11-2019, 07:26 AM
Outrage after leaked video shows Israeli officer shoot Palestinian in the back (https://mondoweiss.net/2019/11/outrage-after-leaked-video-shows-israeli-officer-shoot-palestinian-in-the-back/?utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=b0dd292dd2-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_11_05&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b86bace129-b0dd292dd2-398533981&mc_cid=b0dd292dd2&mc_eid=41040e258b)

Palestinian social media erupted over the weekend as people expressed their outrage over a leaked video showing and Israeli border police officer shooting a Palestinian in the back as the man walked away from the officers, his hands raised in the air....

Disgraceful. But note, according to your article, it was a sponge-tipped bullet, and the offenders concerned were disciplined, as they should have been. Actually, they should serve some jail time.

But what a contrast to the Palestinian Authority, which uses OUR aid money to pay the families of terrorists who die trying to kill Israeli civilians.

antichrist
07-11-2019, 05:12 PM
Disgraceful. But note, according to your article, it was a sponge-tipped bullet, and the offenders concerned were disciplined, as they should have been. Actually, they should serve some jail time.

But what a contrast to the Palestinian Authority, which uses OUR aid money to pay the families of terrorists who die trying to kill Israeli civilians.

Well in WW2 Aussies killed many Japanese invaders, the Palestinians are doing no different.

antichrist
09-11-2019, 11:44 PM
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/melissa-parke-quits-as-labor-s-curtin-star-candidate-over-israel-remarks-20190412-p51dqz.html

https://www.algemeiner.com/2019/09/25/british-labour-party-adopts-anti-israel-policies-including-first-formal-one-on-bds/

there is a recent case of an MP or candidate "having" to resign over Palestinian sympathies but can't currently find the link

Ian Murray
16-11-2019, 11:43 AM
3943

https://mailchi.mp/mondoweiss/harvard-students-walkout-democratic-presidential-candidates-rush-to-defend-israel-progressives-in-congress-take-a-stand-bds-victory-in-europe?e=41040e258b

Headlines

Harvard students walk out en masse from Israeli consul talk (and liberal Zionists are saddened)

As Democratic candidates rush to defend Israel’s attack on Gaza, Sanders and Warren remain silent

Photo Essay: Life in Gaza comes to a standstill

Any of us can be the next victim in Gaza

Another Election, Another War

EU high court: member states must clearly label Israeli settlement products

antichrist
16-11-2019, 04:24 PM
But maybe some of those same EU countries have made into law that the BDS movement is anti-Semitic and thus illegal. Even Canada under young Trudeau is going pro-Zionist???

Ian Murray
19-11-2019, 12:45 PM
Oops, sorry. But there's a possible election pending and Bibi needs another Gaza war, I'm sure you understand

IDF official admits post alleging strike targeted terrorist may be ‘imprecise’ (https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-official-admits-post-alleging-strike-targeted-terrorist-may-be-imprecise/)
Times of Israel
17.11.19

The Israel Defense Forces’ Arabic-language spokesman said on Monday that posts he made last week alleging that an Israeli airstrike on a home in the Gaza Strip, which killed a Palestinian family of eight, had targeted a terrorist may have been “imprecise.” ...

antichrist
19-11-2019, 05:00 PM
Trump is advocating Israel to annex all the occupied territories in complete contradiction of international and humanitarian law as if fascist Israel needs any encouragement

Capablanca-Fan
20-11-2019, 02:29 AM
Well in WW2 Aussies killed many Japanese invaders, the Palestinians are doing no different.

Yes they are. They are committing double war crimes: targeting Israeli civilians, and hiding behind their own civilians.

Capablanca-Fan
20-11-2019, 02:34 AM
Trump is advocating Israel to annex all the occupied territories in complete contradiction of international and humanitarian law
International law is just politics. Israel rightly doesn't care about that antisemitic kakistocracy called the UN.


as if fascist Israel needs any encouragement


Oops, sorry. But there's a possible election pending


Israel is fascist
Israel has elections.

Pick only one.

antichrist
20-11-2019, 04:38 AM
Hitler was voted in so as Germany was N.ZI Israel is fascist and racist and sectarian and bad cooks of Arab food. Even Sharon thought so. And now ex-Mossad agents have gone rogue and causing havoc internationally. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle.

Ian Murray
20-11-2019, 07:39 AM
International law is just politics. Israel rightly doesn't care about that antisemitic kakistocracy called the UN.

The Humanitarian Law of Armed Conflicts (Geneva Conventions/Protocols) is administered by the Red Cross, not the UN. The conventions were signed and ratified by Israel. The fact that Likud and its hangers-on breach the fourth convention by allowing the West Bank settlements does not waive humanitarian law.

Capablanca-Fan
20-11-2019, 08:16 AM
The Humanitarian Law of Armed Conflicts (Geneva Conventions/Protocols) is administered by the Red Cross, not the UN. The conventions were signed and ratified by Israel.


Are Israeli Settlements the Barrier to Peace?
Alan DershowitzJan 12, 20152.5m

Is Israel's policy of building civilian communities in the West Bank the reason there's no peace agreement with the Palestinians? Or would there still be no peace even if Israel removed all of its settlements and evicted Israeli settlers, as it did in Gaza in 2005? Renowned Harvard professor and legal scholar Alan Dershowitz explains.

In 2005, Israel abandoned every single community, every house, every farm, every structure it had built in the Gaza Strip. How did the Palestinians of Gaza react? They launched thousands of rockets and numerous other terror attacks against the nation state of the Jewish people. The attacks continue to this very day. And every year the range of these rockets get longer and their payloads more lethal. Only a very sophisticated Israeli anti-missile defense keeps the country secure. Can you blame Israel for not wanting to risk a two-front rocket war?

But Israel has no right to be in the West Bank at all, many say. So, permit me, a law professor at Harvard, to say that on the basis of international law this position is incorrect.

Military occupations are clearly permitted under international law following an aggressive attack by a neighboring state. Jordan, Israel's neighbor to the East, attacked Israel in 1967, despite Israel's repeated efforts to keep Jordan out of the Six Day War.

In defending itself against Jordan, Israel captured the West Bank and the eastern part of Jerusalem. Under international law, until a meaningful peace is achieved and all terrorism against it ceases, Israel has every right to retain military control over this area. Since no peace treaty has been reached and the terrorism continues with new attacks threatened almost daily, Israel is under no legal obligation to leave. Given the danger that Israel would be putting itself in if it did leave the West Bank—exposing its major cities and international airport to rocket attacks—it would be irresponsible to do so, which is why Israel is still there.

Nevertheless I fully acknowledge that a military occupation is significantly different, both as a matter of law and politics, from building civilian settlements even in a territory that is legitimately subject to a military occupation. That's why I have long opposed the building of settlements in the West Bank. I believe it has caused resentment and has given enemies of Israel an excuse to attack the legitimacy of the occupation in general.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhbCtAz_BQc


The fact that Likud and its hangers-on breach the fourth convention by allowing the West Bank settlements does not waive humanitarian law.

Not that anyone cares about the real violations of humanitarian and international law: Hamas targeting Israeli citizens while using their own citizens as human shields. Same with the Palestinians refusing to recognize the right of a legally established UN member state to exist (https://www.prageru.com/video/israels-legal-founding/).

Ian Murray
20-11-2019, 09:23 AM
Are Israeli Settlements the Barrier to Peace?
Alan DershowitzJan 12, 20152.5m

[INDENT]---Nevertheless I fully acknowledge that a military occupation is significantly different, both as a matter of law and politics, from building civilian settlements even in a territory that is legitimately subject to a military occupation. That's why I have long opposed the building of settlements in the West Bank. I believe it has caused resentment and has given enemies of Israel an excuse to attack the legitimacy of the occupation in general.

Quite


Not that anyone cares about the real violations of humanitarian and international law: Hamas targeting Israeli citizens while using their own citizens as human shields.

If Israel would oblige by moving its military targets within range of Palestinian rockets and its civilians out of range, there wouldn't be a problem.


Same with the Palestinians refusing to recognize the right of a legally established UN member state to exist.

What happened to "Israel rightly doesn't care about that antisemitic kakistocracy called the UN."?

antichrist
20-11-2019, 02:21 PM
Capa Fan, If God came down to Earth and declared he had changed his mind re giving Palestine for a Jewish Holy Land and therefore demolishing any "legitimate" right to Palestine would you agree that Israel should be dismantled?

Capablanca-Fan
22-11-2019, 02:16 AM
If Israel would oblige by moving its military targets within range of Palestinian rockets and its civilians out of range, there wouldn't be a problem.
But in the mean time, it's OK to target civilians intentionally, and use their own civilians as human shields?


What happened to "Israel rightly doesn't care about that antisemitic kakistocracy called the UN."?

What happened is that Israel has a right to hold the antisemitic kakistocracy called the UN to its own standards.

Ian Murray
22-11-2019, 07:15 PM
But in the mean time, it's OK to target civilians intentionally, and use their own civilians as human shields?

Unfortunately there is no other option from Gaza. Israel has no qualms about killing Palestinian civilians. With the level of hatred on both sides, there is no end in sight.


What happened is that Israel has a right to hold the antisemitic kakistocracy called the UN to its own standards.

I wonder what that means.

In the meantime Bibi has been indicted on corruption-related charges, which will make the likely third election this year interesting.

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 03:59 AM
Unfortunately there is no other option from Gaza. Israel has no qualms about killing Palestinian civilians.
Correction: Hamas has no qualms about putting Palestinian civilians in danger by hiding its rocket launchers in schools and hospitals. Under the rules of war, they are the ones responsible for the deaths.

Israel more than any other country tries to avoid civilian casualties. As Golda Meir lamented:


When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.


With the level of hatred on both sides, there is no end in sight.
Of course there is: recognize Israel's right to exist. Israel has honoured the peace treaties made with Egypt and Jordan. Israel doesn't hate. But as Golda Meir also said:


Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.


I wonder what that means.
Since the UN recognized Israel, it should condemn those groups that wish to annihilate a member state. It should condemn the double war crime of both targeting civilians of the enemy and hiding rocket launchers within their own civilians.


In the meantime Bibi has been indicted on corruption-related charges, which will make the likely third election this year interesting.
Politically motivated again, for things that wouldn't be crimes in places like the USA.

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 04:02 AM
Capa Fan, If God came down to Earth and declared he had changed his mind re giving Palestine for a Jewish Holy Land and therefore demolishing any "legitimate" right to Palestine would you agree that Israel should be dismantled?

AC, if God came down to earth and spoke to you, would you believe that He exists?

antichrist
23-11-2019, 08:35 AM
AC, if God came down to earth and spoke to you, would you believe that He exists?
If Christ came down and changed his mind re Israel there would be six million new Israeli Antichrists to replace me. They would be firing nukes at Him with American Christians returning the fire with their nukes - what an ARMAGEDDON that be.

Ian Murray
23-11-2019, 08:50 AM
Correction: Hamas has no qualms about putting Palestinian civilians in danger by hiding its rocket launchers in schools and hospitals. Under the rules of war, they are the ones responsible for the deaths.

Israel more than any other country tries to avoid civilian casualties. As Golda Meir lamented:


When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.

You're living in the past. The recent exchange of fire started with the killing of a Palestinian family of eight (five children) without warning, based on faulty Israeli intelligence. Islamic Jihad (not Hamas) retaliated with rocket fire, and Israel retaliated with air strikes against IJ and Hamas military targets (https://www.france24.com/en/20191116-israel-launches-fresh-strikes-against-gaza-after-rocket-fire) (no mention of schools and hospitals).

Golda Meir is long gone. Under Netanyahu Israel issues no warnings before air and artillery strikes.


Of course there is: recognize Israel's right to exist. Israel has honoured the peace treaties made with Egypt and Jordan. Israel doesn't hate.

The peace treaties included the return of occupied territories to Egypt and Jordan. Israel has no intention of returning occupied territory to the Palestinians, but is in process of annexation.

Just recently we were discussing Israeli border guards shooting a Palestinian civilian in the back, and bragging about it on social media. Israeiis hate.


Since the UN recognized Israel, it should condemn those groups that wish to annihilate a member state.

Palestinians have no plans to annihilate Israel. Israel does have plans to annihilate Palestine


Politically motivated again, for things that wouldn't be crimes in places like the USA.

Political corruption may be commonplace in USA, but elsewhere it is illegal.

MichaelBaron
23-11-2019, 10:05 AM
Unfortunately there is no other option from Gaza. Israel has no qualms about killing Palestinian civilians. With the level of hatred on both sides, there is no end in sight.





Wow...Learning more about your views: so a) terrorism is OK b) using own civilians as human shield is also ok (case no other option).
How about suicide bombers? No other options as well i guess? and if ''no military targets available'' - it is justified to target civilians?

What upsets me is not only that there are barbarians running some parts of the world (Palestine included) but that in a Western society that I somehow expect to be more civilised...these barbarians get supported.

MichaelBaron
23-11-2019, 10:07 AM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netherlands-cuts-aid-to-palestinian-authority-over-terrorist-salaries/

antichrist
23-11-2019, 10:27 AM
Wow...Learning more about your views: so a) terrorism is OK b) using own civilians as human shield is also ok (case no other option).
How about suicide bombers? No other options as well i guess? and if ''no military targets available'' - it is justified to target civilians?

What upsets me is not only that there are barbarians running some parts of the world (Palestine included) but that in a Western society that I somehow expect to be more civilised...these barbarians get supported.

Michael, what options do the Palestinians have? Their children's future is virtually nil being in refugee camps for seventy years except for foreign help. If they sacrifice themselves and their children for the cause then eventually a generation may succeed and have a decent life. I am only presuming this is the case as I don't read everything on it. When you have nothing more to lose don't question them or their motives - put yourselves in their boots being in refugee camps for seventy years.

Without belief in a paradise afterlife they probably could not have themselves and their families sacrificed - they got the afterlife concept from your mate Yahweh so don't blame them.

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 11:59 AM
Wow...Learning more about your views: so a) terrorism is OK b) using own civilians as human shield is also ok (case no other option).
How about suicide bombers? No other options as well i guess? and if ''no military targets available'' - it is justified to target civilians?

What upsets me is not only that there are barbarians running some parts of the world (Palestine included) but that in a Western society that I somehow expect to be more civilised...these barbarians get supported.

Yes, when it comes to Israel, it's shocking how many people reverse the norms of civilized behaviour.

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 12:05 PM
Michael, what options do the Palestinians have?
Recognize Israel's right to exist. Ages ago, Netanhayu said that if this happened, Israel would be the first country that would recognize a sovereign Palestinian state.


Their children's future is virtually nil being in refugee camps for seventy years except for foreign help.
Because the Arabs, despite their huge oil wealth, refuse to settle them. Contrast that with the 800,000 Jews thrown out of Arab and Islamist countries when Israel became a state again. Israel, despite being a tiny land only 30% the size of Tasmania (http://www.comparea.org/ISR+AU_TS), settled them all. Now some of their descendants have reached very high levels in Israeli society.

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 12:12 PM
Netherlands cuts aid to Palestinian Authority over terrorist salaries (https://www.timesofisrael.com/netherlands-cuts-aid-to-palestinian-authority-over-terrorist-salaries/)

Great news. The rest of the West should follow. No way we should fund terrorists, even indirectly.

antichrist
23-11-2019, 12:16 PM
Recognize Israel's right to exist. Ages ago, Netanhayu said that if this happened, Israel would be the first country that would recognize a sovereign Palestinian state.


Because the Arabs, despite their huge oil wealth, refuse to settle them. Contrast that with the 800,000 Jews thrown out of Arab and Islamist countries when Israel became a state again. Israel, despite being a tiny land only 30% the size of Tasmania (http://www.comparea.org/ISR+AU_TS), settled them all. Now some of their descendants have reached very high levels in Israeli society.

Without agreeing with anything in your post, just as you deny atheists advising you as a Christian how a Christian should think should not Arabs have the same privilege and not having Jews telling them what to do - especially after Israel have stolen everything including water. If Israel was not stolen territory there would not be a Palestinian problem.

Ian Murray
23-11-2019, 12:17 PM
a) terrorism is OK .

Both sides shooting at each other is war, not terrorism

.
b) using own civilians as human shield is also ok (case no other option)..

Using enemy children (https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2010/10/04/idf-convicts-soldiers-of-using-palestinian-boy-as-human-shield-during-cast-lead/) is worse


How about suicide bombers?

Suicide bombers are terrorists, unless the targets are military

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 12:20 PM
NETANYAHU’S INDICTMENT IS A FRAUD (https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/11/netanyahus-indictment-is-a-fraud.php)
JOHN HINDERAKER, 21 Nov 2019

Caroline [Glick] wrote last month at Mosaic Magazine: “The Real Threat to Israel’s Democracy Comes from the Office of Its Attorney General (https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/israel-zionism/2019/10/the-real-threat-to-israels-democracy-comes-from-the-office-of-its-attorney-general/).”


The key question—indeed, just about the only question—that has been endlessly discussed is whether Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit will end Netanyahu’s political career by indicting him on corruption charges. The importance of this question is self-evident. On the one hand we have a democratically elected leader. On the other hand, we have unelected state prosecutors who wish to oust him from power by indicting him.

In Israel, and throughout the free world, all politicians and all media organs maintain ties with one another as a matter of course. If Mandelblit accepts the state prosecutor’s position and indicts Netanyahu, practically speaking, he will render all politicians and media outlets in Israel hostage to state prosecutors. At their pleasure, the prosecutors can criminalize the routine practice of politics and journalism. They can investigate anyone, at any time. They can destroy reputations, squeeze politicians and media outlets financially by saddling them with legal fees, and even send them to prison. And at their pleasure, prosecutors can decide not to investigate politicians and media outlets, and so leave them free to attack their less fortunate colleagues as “criminal suspects”, and “alleged felons”.

At the core of the state prosecutors’ desire to arrogate the power to criminalize politics stands a rejection of the democratic principle that the public is the sovereign and the source of political power, and an ambition to replace the public as the sovereign.

antichrist
23-11-2019, 12:29 PM
NETANYAHU’S INDICTMENT IS A FRAUD (https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/11/netanyahus-indictment-is-a-fraud.php)
JOHN HINDERAKER, 21 Nov 2019

Caroline [Glick] wrote last month at Mosaic Magazine: “The Real Threat to Israel’s Democracy Comes from the Office of Its Attorney General (https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/israel-zionism/2019/10/the-real-threat-to-israels-democracy-comes-from-the-office-of-its-attorney-general/).”


The key question—indeed, just about the only question—that has been endlessly discussed is whether Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit will end Netanyahu’s political career by indicting him on corruption charges. The importance of this question is self-evident. On the one hand we have a democratically elected leader. On the other hand, we have unelected state prosecutors who wish to oust him from power by indicting him.

In Israel, and throughout the free world, all politicians and all media organs maintain ties with one another as a matter of course. If Mandelblit accepts the state prosecutor’s position and indicts Netanyahu, practically speaking, he will render all politicians and media outlets in Israel hostage to state prosecutors. At their pleasure, the prosecutors can criminalize the routine practice of politics and journalism. They can investigate anyone, at any time. They can destroy reputations, squeeze politicians and media outlets financially by saddling them with legal fees, and even send them to prison. And at their pleasure, prosecutors can decide not to investigate politicians and media outlets, and so leave them free to attack their less fortunate colleagues as “criminal suspects”, and “alleged felons”.

At the core of the state prosecutors’ desire to arrogate the power to criminalize politics stands a rejection of the democratic principle that the public is the sovereign and the source of political power, and an ambition to replace the public as the sovereign.


If Jesus could be indicted/impeached and crucified then why can't Trump and Netanyahu? Are you putting these very failed humans above Mr Christ?

ER
23-11-2019, 03:04 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netherlands-cuts-aid-to-palestinian-authority-over-terrorist-salaries/?fbclid=IwAR2BxngvBtXzhhQe6-git_BlYtQuiQfWPTqHIKaeDv-6o_qsiQa16LoWI1o

I hope we in Australia have stopped financing them too.

Capablanca-Fan
23-11-2019, 03:11 PM
Both sides shooting at each other is war, not terrorism
Hamas shoots at children. PLO bombed school buses.


Using enemy children (https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2010/10/04/idf-convicts-soldiers-of-using-palestinian-boy-as-human-shield-during-cast-lead/) is worse
Your article says that the IDF punished the perps. But the PLO pays terrorists and their families.

Still nothing like Hamas shooting rockets from schools and hospitals, and antisemites blaming Israel for the deaths when Israel fires back although the laws of warfare blame those who hide their weapons among civilians.

antichrist
23-11-2019, 04:44 PM
Hamas shoots at children. PLO bombed school buses.

………...

I am only being facetious when stating this: Well the Jews did say when demanding that Mr Christ be crucified "Let his blood be upon us and upon our children". That is the trouble all the stupid situations that can be manufactured when silly Scriptures are used to claim land, superiority etc going back thousands of years.

Ian Murray
23-11-2019, 04:53 PM
Hamas shoots at children. PLO bombed school buses.

Israel shoots at children too - five were killed in the latest opening attack (body count = 34 Palestinians, no Israelis). PLO is moribund, and hasn't bombed anything in a long time.


Your article says that the IDF punished the perps.

Some punishment (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8150332/Israeli-soldiers-who-used-boy-as-human-shield-escape-avoid-jail.html) - three months suspended sentence and demotion from staff sergeant to sergeant.


But the PLO pays terrorists and their families.

Not PLO, PA. And Israel pays benefits to IDF casualties and their families


Still nothing like Hamas shooting rockets from schools and hospitals, and antisemites blaming Israel for the deaths when Israel fires back although the laws of warfare blame those who hide their weapons among civilians.

Hamas is not firing from schools and hospitals - that was during Op Cast Lead when Israel invaded Gaza. Both sides committed war crimes. And Israel opened the current hostilities, and Palestine fired back

Ian Murray
23-11-2019, 06:10 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netherlands-cuts-aid-to-palestinian-authority-over-terrorist-salaries/?fbclid=IwAR2BxngvBtXzhhQe6-git_BlYtQuiQfWPTqHIKaeDv-6o_qsiQa16LoWI1o

I hope we in Australia have stopped financing them too.

Overview of Australia’s aid program to the Palestinian Territories (https://dfat.gov.au/geo/palestinian-territories/development-assistance/Pages/development-assistance-in-palestinian-territories.aspx)

Ian Murray
23-11-2019, 06:29 PM
Benjamin Netanyahu Is Indicted on Criminal Charges, and His Defiance Puts Israel’s Democracy at Risk (https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/benjamin-netanyahu-is-indicted-on-criminal-charges-and-his-defiance-puts-israels-democracy-at-risk)
The New Yorker
22.11.19

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s defiant response to the three indictments finally brought against him, on Thursday, would, under any circumstances, constitute a crisis for the rule of law in Israel. But Netanyahu’s defiance comes as the climax of a larger crisis for Israel’s democracy, which has been building at least since Netanyahu’s reëlection, in 2015. It places the country’s divided people on unknown and dangerous terrain. The indictments—for bribery, fraud, and breach of trust—are, Netanyahu insists, an attempted “coup” against him, conducted by the police, the state prosecutor’s office, and other judicial authorities—his version of the Trumpian claim that a “deep state” is attempting to overturn the will of the electorate. He seems intent on conducting a preëmptive countercoup using the office of Prime Minister, which he currently occupies only as the head of a transitional government, to appoint potential allies to key government positions, conduct escalatory military operations, collude with an increasingly desperate Donald Trump, and rally his followers against Israeli Arabs, whose parties he tars with the vague charge of “supporting terrorism.” Two close elections this year have not returned Netanyahu to the office, but they have not dislodged him either.

By law, an Israeli minister indicted for a criminal offense is required to resign. By precedent, a Prime Minister must: two already have, and not for crimes committed while in office. Yet Netanyahu seems determined not to relinquish power. “My sense of justice burns within me,” he said on Thursday evening, in a speech that was unprecedented in its pathos and its attacks on state prosecutors, including the Attorney General, Avichai Mandelblit, who had announced the indictments. “I cannot believe that the country I fought for and was wounded for, that I’ve brought to such achievements,” he said, will allow “this kind of tainted justice.” For the rule of law to prevail, he added, “we have to do one thing: to finally investigate the investigators,” which would entail the appointment of an “outside” commission of inquiry into the prosecution’s methods, as if the Attorney General, whom Netanyahu himself appointed, were somehow part of a secret conspiracy against him....

MichaelBaron
23-11-2019, 09:10 PM
Michael, what options do the Palestinians have? Their children's future is virtually nil being in refugee camps for seventy years except for foreign help. If they sacrifice themselves and their children for the cause then eventually a generation may succeed and have a decent life. I am only presuming this is the case as I don't read everything on it. When you have nothing more to lose don't question them or their motives - put yourselves in their boots being in refugee camps for seventy years.

Without belief in a paradise afterlife they probably could not have themselves and their families sacrificed - they got the afterlife concept from your mate Yahweh so don't blame them.

How about the option of NOT being terrorists and not using own children as human schields?

MichaelBaron
23-11-2019, 09:13 PM
Both sides shooting at each other is war, not terrorism

.

Using enemy children (https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2010/10/04/idf-convicts-soldiers-of-using-palestinian-boy-as-human-shield-during-cast-lead/) is worse



Suicide bombers are terrorists, unless the targets are military

Do Israeli soldgers target children ON Purpose...the way Palestinians do? Do Israeli soldgers every want use schools as bases HOPING that their own chlldren get killed and then they can put up an ''I am the victim'' show?

If suiside bombers are terrorists. why every single successful attack results in massive celebrations throughout Palestine?

antichrist
23-11-2019, 09:34 PM
How about the option of NOT being terrorists and not using own children as human schields?


The Stern gang plus others were the first terrorists in Palestine - then they morphed into the Israeli defences. As the Palestinians cannot fight a conventional war to free their territory they have no choice but to revert to terrorism. So blame the Israeli for the Palestinians being terrorists - they just copied the Israelis.


How about the option of the Israelis becoming the refugees for seventy years how they have done to the Arabs? Eye for an eye.

Ian Murray
23-11-2019, 09:37 PM
Do Israeli soldgers target children ON Purpose...the way Palestinians do? Do Israeli soldgers every want use schools as bases HOPING that their own chlldren get killed and then they can put up an ''I am the victim'' show?

If suiside bombers are terrorists. why every single successful attack results in massive celebrations throughout Palestine?

IDF soldiers really do claim to be victims for being exposed as war criminals:


At the military court where the two sergeants were convicted, several former comrades attending wore shirts with the slogan “We are victims of Goldstone"
https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2010/10/04/idf-convicts-soldiers-of-using-palestinian-boy-as-human-shield-during-cast-lead/

MichaelBaron
23-11-2019, 11:39 PM
IDF soldiers really do claim to be victims for being exposed as war criminals:


At the military court where the two sergeants were convicted, several former comrades attending wore shirts with the slogan “We are victims of Goldstone"
https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2010/10/04/idf-convicts-soldiers-of-using-palestinian-boy-as-human-shield-during-cast-lead/

You seem to be avoiding the questions whether the Palestinian fighters a) focus on civilian targets on regular basis and b) whether they use their own women and children for cover. and of course if they do...do Palestinian authorities support them or prosecute for this?

antichrist
24-11-2019, 03:24 AM
You seem to be avoiding the questions whether the Palestinian fighters a) focus on civilian targets on regular basis and b) whether they use their own women and children for cover. and of course if they do...do Palestinian authorities support them or prosecute for this?

Early Jewish leaders also sacrificed their own women and children to obtain the Jewish state. They continue to risk their family"s lives by putting them in a war zone called Israel and occupied territories

Capablanca-Fan
24-11-2019, 04:07 AM
The reign of the prosecution
Ever since Mandelblit gave his “recommendations,” he and his comrades have been the only political actors with any power to speak of.
by Caroline B. Glick Israel Hayyom (Israel Today) 22 Nov 2019
[More on the guilt by accusation or presumption of guilt that Ian Murray supports]

And then there was Netanyahu himself. Thursday morning, his supporters shook their heads in frustration and his enemies clapped their hands in glee at the sight of Israel’s greatest statesman, the leader the public wants to keep in office, unable to form a government...Voters don’t decide anything. The lawyers do. Politicians are irrelevant. The only people who count in Israel today are the unelected attorneys who run the country.

To the cheers of Israel’s corrupt media, for the past three years our legal overlords have gnawed away at all aspects of political power in Israel, and in the process – not that they cared – they corrupted Israel’s legal system from top to bottom. From beginning to end, their criminal persecution of Netanyahu has been a travesty of every norm in democratic societies governed by the rule of law. Carefully edited and wholly distorted recordings and transcripts of police interrogations of Netanyahu, his wife, son, and advisors were systematically leaked to the media. The fact that every such leak was a felony offense was of no matter. Netanyahu’s attorneys submitted request after request for Mandelblit to order an investigation of the criminal leaks. All were summarily and scornfully rejected.

Then, of course, there is the substance of the charges themselves. The charge that Netanyahu accepted a bribe is based on an invented notion that positive media coverage of a politician is bribery. The notion that press coverage can be considered bribery exists nowhere in the democratic world. No prosecutor in the world has ever indicted – or investigated – a politician or media organization of having committed bribery involving the provision of positive coverage. Senior American jurists appeared before Mandelblit in Netanyahu’s (self-evidently unserious) pre-indictment hearing to warn him that pursuing bribery charges against politicians for receiving positive coverage is a recipe for destroying freedom of the press and democracy itself.

But then, that is the entire point of going after Netanyahu with invented crimes. Now that Netanyahu has been charged for bribery – and incidentally, he never even received positive coverage from the media organ accused of providing it – every politician that gets on the lawyers’ bad side will be sweating bricks any time a reporter writes something nice about him.

Maybe Gantz did nothing wrong. But then, Netanyahu is being indicted for crimes that don’t actually exist. So it doesn’t matter. The message is clear. Every politician is at the mercy of the prosecutors. Fall out of line, and you will become a criminal suspect before you can say, “prosecutorial abuse.”

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 06:32 AM
You seem to be avoiding the questions whether the Palestinian fighters a) focus on civilian targets on regular basis and b) whether they use their own women and children for cover. and of course if they do...do Palestinian authorities support them or prosecute for this?

I don't think you're in any position to accuse anyone of avoiding questions.

The answers are a) no b) no c) no

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 11:19 AM
3952

https://www.ft.com/content/e1b4cd08-0c78-11ea-bb52-34c8d9dc6d84

MichaelBaron
24-11-2019, 05:41 PM
I don't think you're in any position to accuse anyone of avoiding questions.

The answers are a) no b) no c) no

a) Civilian Targets is exaclty what they focus on.. when they send missiles into Israel they do not even target those..- just hope for destruction and casualties b) if missiles attack Israeli territory from school and hospital grounds...what would be the logic behind it if not to hope for return of fire and casualties? c)Palestinian authorities do not fight terrorists and terrorism or do they?

MichaelBaron
24-11-2019, 05:43 PM
3952

https://www.ft.com/content/e1b4cd08-0c78-11ea-bb52-34c8d9dc6d84

How is it relevant to conflict between Israel and Palestine? Or may be Palestinian leaders are less corrupt? I can still recall the great struggle for ''Arafat's billions'' while the country was starving.

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 08:34 PM
a) Civilian Targets is exaclty what they focus on.. when they send missiles into Israel they do not even target those..- just hope for destruction and casualties b) if missiles attack Israeli territory from school and hospital grounds...what would be the logic behind it if not to hope for return of fire and casualties? c)Palestinian authorities do not fight terrorists and terrorism or do they?

At Post 2486 you started with "Do Israeli soldgers target children ON Purpose...the way Palestinians do?" If their rockets and mortars are not targeted, how can they be targeting children?

Now you ask " if missiles attack Israeli territory from school and hospital grounds.." First you would need to establish that the launchers were on school and hospital grounds..

News reports indicate that IDF counter strikes were against Hamas military compounds, not schools or hospitals (which have not been mentioned by IDF media spokespeople - they certainly would have been mentioned if such was the case)

IDF Strikes 100 Targets in Gaza in Response to Rockets Fired at Tel Aviv (https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/37806)

IAF pounds Gaza after mortar salvo hits border communities (https://www.israelhayom.com/2018/06/20/iaf-pounds-gaza-after-mortar-barrage-hits-southern-israel/)

Israel strikes Hamas sites after rockets fired in Gaza as cease-fire efforts at risk (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-strikes-hamas-sites-in-gaza-as-cease-fire-efforts-at-risk/2019/11/16/78a1992e-086b-11ea-8ac0-0810ed197c7e_story.html)

Ian Murray
24-11-2019, 08:37 PM
How is it relevant to conflict between Israel and Palestine? Or may be Palestinian leaders are less corrupt? I can still recall the great struggle for ''Arafat's billions'' while the country was starving.

Israeli politics is relevant. See also Posts 2477 and 2491

Capablanca-Fan
25-11-2019, 04:46 AM
According to the Law: Netanyahu Can’t Even be Indicted at this Time (https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/140474/according-law-netanyahu-cant-indicted-time)
By David Sidman, Breaking Israeli News, 24 November 2019
But let justice well up like water, Righteousness like an unfailing stream. Amos 5:24 (The Israel Bible™)

According to Israeli law, Israel’s Attorney General, Avichai Mandleblit has no authority to indict the Prime Minister at this time. Conservative pundit Caroline Glick publicized the law relating to indicting members of Knesset on her Facebook page.

The law states that before the attorney general indicts a Member of Knesset such as Netanyahu, they must first submit a recommendation to the Knesset committee. The only problem is that during a transition government (as there is now), there is no Knesset committee which means that no indictment can be handed down.

The law also states that after the Knesset Committee receives the letter to recommend an indictment, the committee then has to take the time to discuss whether or not the suspect should enjoy immunity. These sessions can take months. And as long as there is no government, as is the case currently, these discussions can not even take place.

As Glick puts it: “When Mandleblit announced that he was indicting Netanyahu, he made a political decision, not a legal one. He behaved like a politician and not like an attorney general.” Glick added that Mandleblit “is trying to depose of the Prime Minister in a dirty manner based on a campaign of what appears to be legal disinformation.”

Capablanca-Fan
25-11-2019, 04:49 AM
You seem to be avoiding the questions whether the Palestinian fighters a) focus on civilian targets on regular basis and b) whether they use their own women and children for cover. and of course if they do...do Palestinian authorities support them or prosecute for this?

The antisemites fail to differentiate between deaths of Palestinian children in the schools from where Hamas launches rockets or conscripted into terrorism at a young age, and Israeli children on school buses and in pizza restaurants.

antichrist
25-11-2019, 05:10 AM
The antisemites fail to differentiate between deaths of Palestinian children in the schools from where Hamas launches rockets or conscripted into terrorism at a young age, and Israeli children on school buses and in pizza restaurants.

The Palestinians are the Semites and the people on the bus could be non and antisemitic Europeans