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firegoat7
24-01-2004, 03:41 PM
The 2004 Australia Day Weekender kicked off at 3pm Saturday the 24th of January. There was an excellent turnout of 22 players in attendance at MCC. With 4 players over 2000 the tournament should be hotly contested. Bjelobrk ought to be considered a hot favourite, given his recent Australian Championship results, but recent Iraqi migrant FM Abdulawahab promises to be a likely dark horse. The return of the ever consistent Baron plus outsiders Partsi, Krawcheni, and the Lindberg brothers should keep the top two seeds honest. The ever flamboyant Pecori is always a serious threat. Good to see Stokie (Geelong), Lushaj (Frankston) and Werlheim ( Byron Bay), making the trip to MCC. Good luck to all the competitors !!


1. Bjelobrk, Igor 2300
2. Abdulawahab, Rasheed 2299
3. Baron, Michael 2239
4. Partsi, Dimitri 2064
5. Pecori, Ascaro 1945
6. Dragicevic, Domagoj 1895
7. Voon, Richard 1846
8. Lushaj, Tahir 1816
9. Fletcher, Andrew 1759
10. Roberts, Mark 1722
11. Lindberg, Gordon 1690
12. Lindberg, Douglas 1620
13. Stokie, Bill 1574
14. Davenport, John 1536
15. Lipe, Sam 1476
16. Lindberg, Eric 1426
17. Werlheim, Steve 1350
18. Zivkovic, Sam 1349
19. Ivanov, Nick 1341
20. Mono, 1322
21. Theodosiu, Peter 1200
22. Krawcheni, Andrei 1776

Here is the first round pairings.
No Name Result Name

1 Bjelobrk, I (1) : Dragicevic, D (6)
2 Voon, R (7) : Abdulawahab, R (2)
3 Baron, M (3) : Lushaj, T (8)
4 Fletcher, A (9) : Partsi, D (4)
5 Pecori, A (5) : Roberts, M (10)
6 Lindberg, E (16) 0:1 Lindberg, G (11)
7 Lindberg, D (12) : Werlheim, S (17)
8 Zivkovic, S (18) : Stokie, B (13)
9 Davenport, J (14) : Ivanov, N (19)
10 Mono, (20) : Lipe, S (15)
11 Theodosiu, P (21) : Krawcheni, A (22)

Poor Eric, You have some empathy when your son wipes you of the board in the first round. Heres the game……

Round 1 Australia Day Open 24/01/04
Lindberg,E - Lindberg,G [A48]

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 Bg7 4.Nc3 d5 5.e3 0-0 6.Bd3 c5 7.dxc5 Qa5 8.0-0 Nc6 9.a3 Qxc5 10.Rc1 Bg4 11.h3 Bxf3 12.Qxf3 e5 13.Bg5 e4 0-1

P.S Needless to say with Firegoat as the arbiter, disputes ought to be minimised.
Cheers!

skip to my lou
24-01-2004, 03:45 PM
Click "Disable Smilies in this post" when posting. You can still edit it and select this option.

skip to my lou
24-01-2004, 03:46 PM
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 Bg7 4.Nc3 d5 5.e3 0-0 6.Bd3 c5 7.dxc5 Qa5 8.0-0 Nc6 9.a3 Qxc5 10.Rc1 Bg4 11.h3 Bxf3 12.Qxf3 e5 13.Bg5 e4 0-1

firegoat7
24-01-2004, 05:21 PM
Dear Jeo,


Thank you very much for your valuable assistance. Makes the games come alive!!

regards FG7

firegoat7
24-01-2004, 06:10 PM
Press release 2

The first round games went to seed except for board 2 where Voon held the draw with FM Abdulawahab and board 5 upset were Roberts fixed up Pecori (ed-not another first round defeat for Ascaro at MCC). Thankfully Ascaro didn’t complain too much.
Round 1
Pecori,A ACF-1945 - Roberts,M ACF-1722 [C18]

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qc7 7.Nf3 b6 8.a4 Ba6 9.Bxa6 Nxa6 10.Qd3 Nb8 11.Ba3 Nd7 12.0-0 Ne7 13.Rfe1 0-0 14.Ng5 Ng6 15.h4 Rfe8 16.h5 c4 17.Qf3 Nh8 18.Re3 Qd8 19.Qf4 h6 20.Nh3 Kh7 21.Rg3 f5 22.exf6 Nxf6 23.Qf3 Qd7 24.Nf4 Ne4 25.Rg4 Nf6 26.Rh4 Qxa4 27.Nxe6 Qd7 28.Nf4 Qf5 29.Bd6 Nf7 30.Bc7 Rac8 31.Be5 Nxe5 32.dxe5 Rxe5 33.Rxa7 Re1+ 34.Kh2 Rce8 35.Qg3 Qg5 36.Qh3 Ne4 37.Rg4 Rh1+ 38.Kxh1 Nxf2+ 39.Kg1 Nxg4 40.Qg3 Rf8 41.Ne2 Qf5 42.Ra1 Qxh5 43.Rd1 Qf5 44.Kh1 Nf2+ 0-1

Here is the Round 2 pairings…..


No Name Result Name

1 Lindberg, D (12) : Bjelobrk, I (1)
2 Krawcheni, A (22) : Baron, M (3)
3 Partsi, D (4) : Davenport, J (14)
4 Roberts, M (10) : Zivkovic, S (18)
5 Lindberg, G (11) : Mono, (20)
6 Abdulawahab, R (2) : Pecori, A (5)
7 Dragicevic, D (6) : Voon, R (7)
8 Lushaj, T (8) : Lindberg, E (16)
9 Werlheim, S (17) : Fletcher, A (9)
10 Stokie, B (13) : Ivanov, N (19)
11 Lipe, S (15) : Theodosiu, P (21)

Cheers

Bill Gletsos
24-01-2004, 06:16 PM
The first round games went to seed except for board 2 where Voon held the draw with FM Abdulawahab and board 5 upset were Roberts fixed up Pecori (ed-not another first round defeat for Ascaro at MCC). Thankfully Ascaro didn’t complain too much.
Too much BB posting for him and not enough preparation. :D ;)

firegoat7
24-01-2004, 09:52 PM
Press Release Results from round 2 of Australia day open at MCC.

1 Lindberg, D (12) 0:1 Bjelobrk, I (1)
2 Krawcheni, A (22) 0:1 Baron, M (3)
3 Partsi, D (4) 1:0 Davenport, J (14)
4 Roberts, M (10) .5:.5 Zivkovic, S (18)
5 Lindberg, G (11) .5:.5 Mono, (20)
6 Abdulawahab, R (2) 0:1 Pecori, A (5)
7 Dragicevic, D (6) 1:0 Voon, R (7)
8 Lushaj, T (8) 0:1 Lindberg, E (16)
9 Werlheim, S (17) 0:1 Fletcher, A (9)
10 Stokie, B (13) 1:0 Ivanov, N (19)
11 Lipe, S (15) 1:0 Theodosiu, P (21)

Most games went to seed again. Mono was able to gain a draw against G.Lindberg playing well above his rating. Abdulawahab-Pecori was a hard fought encounter, with Pecori emerging victorious in the time scramble. Lushaj is probably having a tournament he would rather forget being convincingly beaten by E.Lindberg, another big upset.


The next game is an effortless win by Baron who simply accepts all the material offered by Krawcheni. White appears to self destruct on this occasion.

(16) A.Krawcheni-ACF-1689 - M.Baron –ACF-2239[B06]
1.d4 g6 2.e4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.Be3 a6 5.a4 Nd7 6.Nf3 c6 7.Bc4 e6 8.Qd2 b6 9.0–0 Rb8 10.Rae1 Qc7 11.Qe2 b5 12.axb5 cxb5 13.Bd3 Ne7 14.Bg5 f6 15.Bh4 e5 16.Ra1 0–0 17.dxe5 dxe5 18.Rfd1 Nc5 19.Bxb5 axb5 20.Nxb5 Qb6 21.c4 g5 22.Rd6 Nc6 23.Bg3 Nb7 24.Rd2 Bg4 25.Rad1 Bxf3 26.Qxf3 Qc5 27.Rd5 Qb4 0–1 Time

Here is the round 3 pairings:

1 Bjelobrk, I (1) : Partsi, D (4)
2 Baron, M (3) : Roberts, M (10)
3 Zivkovic, S (18) : Lindberg, G (11)
4 Mono, (20) : Lindberg, D (12)
5 Pecori, A (5) : Lipe, S (15)
6 Davenport, J (14) : Dragicevic, D (6)
7 Fletcher, A (9) : Krawcheni, A (22)
8 Lindberg, E (16) : Stokie, B (13)
9 Ivanov, N (19) : Abdulawahab, R (2)
10 Voon, R (7) : Lushaj, T (8)
11 Theodosiu, P (21) : Werlheim, S (17)

firegoat7
25-01-2004, 02:27 PM
Australia day Weekender at the MCC Round 3 25/01/04

Hello Everyone,

The tournament is starting to hot up with Baron taking the solo lead on 3/3. Bjelobrk was only able to gain a draw against a very solid game by Partsi, congratulations to Dimitri who is showing no sign of rust from not playing much tournament chess. All the Lindbergs continue to impress and yes Pecori was struggling again against a lower rated player at MCC. Lushaj is having a tournament he would rather forget. Whilst Ivanov did all that could be expected after his opponent arrived too late!

Results
1 Bjelobrk, I (1) .5:.5 Partsi, D (4)
2 Baron, M (3) 1:0 Roberts, M (10)
3 Zivkovic, S (18) 0:1 Lindberg, G (11)
4 Mono, (20) 0:1 Lindberg, D (12)
5 Pecori, A (5) 1:0 Lipe, S (15)
6 Davenport, J (14) 0:1 Dragicevic, D (6)
7 Fletcher, A (9) 1:0 Krawcheni, A (22)
8 Lindberg, E (16) 1:0 Stokie, B (13)
9 Ivanov, N (19) 1:0 Abdulawahab, R (2)
10 Voon, R (7) 1:0 Lushaj, T (8)
11 Theodosiu, P (21) 0:1 Werlheim, S (17)

(1) Bjelobrk,I - Partsi,D [D40]
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.d4 c5 5.dxc5 Bxc5 6.e3 0–0 7.a3 dxc4 8.Qxd8 Rxd8 9.Bxc4 a6 10.b4 Be7 11.Bb2 b5 12.Be2 Nc6 13.0–0 Bb7 14.Rfd1 Kf8 15.Nd2 Rd7 16.Nb3 Rad8 17.Rdc1 Na7 18.f3 Nd5 19.Nxd5 Bxd5 20.Nc5 Rd6 21.Be5 Rc6 22.e4 Bxc5+ 23.bxc5 Bb3 24.Bf4 f6 25.Rab1 Ba4 26.Be3 Rcc8 27.f4 Nc6 28.Rc3 Nd4 29.Bxd4 Rxd4 30.Rb4 Rd2 31.Kf1 Rc2 32.Rd3 R2xc5 33.Rd6 R5c6 34.Rbd4 R8c7 35.e5 Ke7 36.Bf3 Rc1+ 37.Kf2 fxe5 38.fxe5 R1c5 39.Rxa6 Rxe5 40.Ra8 Rec5 41.Rg8 Kf6 42.Rf4+ Rf5 43.Re4 Bb3 44.Rb8 Bd5 45.Re3 Bxf3 46.gxf3 Rc2+ 47.Re2 Rc3 48.Re3 Rfc5 49.Rxc3 Rxc3 50.Rxb5 Rxa3 51.h4 h6 52.Rc5 Ra2+ 53.Kg3 Ra1 54.Rb5 g6 55.Rc5 Rg1+ 56.Kf2 Rd1 57.Kg2 Rd5 58.Rc7 e5 59.Rc8 Rd4 ˝–˝


(9) Ivanov,N - Abdulawahab [B00]
1.e4 1–0 Time



Pairings for Round 4
1 Partsi, D (4) : Baron, M (3)
2 Lindberg, G (11) : Bjelobrk, I (1)
3 Fletcher, A (9) : Pecori, A (5)
4 Dragicevic, D (6) : Lindberg, D (12)
5 Voon, R (7) : Lindberg, E (16)
6 Roberts, M (10) : Mono, (20)
7 Lipe, S (15) : Zivkovic, S (18)
8 Stokie, B (13) : Werlheim, S (17)
9 Krawcheni, A (22) : Davenport, J (14)
10 Ivanov, N (19) : Theodosiu, P (21)
11 Abdulawahab, R (2) : Lushaj, T (8)

Cheers,

firegoat7
25-01-2004, 06:52 PM
Press release Australia day Open at MCC 25/01/04 Round 4

Dimitri Partsi grabbed a share of the lead with Igor Bjelobrk after defeating Michael Baron in Round 4. Times scramble lead to a queen sacrifice by Partsi which broke through Barons defence. Bjeleobrk ended G.Lindbergs streak with a 51 move win. Pecori and Dragicevic both won as well, ensuring an interesting tussle for first place. In a round of upsets, Werlheim surprised the luckless Stokie, whilst Ivanov proved that winning form is good form. The surprise packet of the tournament is Mono who has continued to play well above his rating in a solid display.

1 Partsi, D (4) 1:0 Baron, M (3)
2 Lindberg, G (11) 0:1 Bjelobrk, I (1)
3 Fletcher, A (9) 0:1 Pecori, A (5)
4 Dragicevic, D (6) 1:0 Lindberg, D (12)
5 Voon, R (7) 1:0 Lindberg, E (16)
6 Roberts, M (10) .5:.5 Mono, (20)
7 Lipe, S (15) 0:1 Zivkovic, S (18)
8 Stokie, B (13) 0:1 Werlheim, S (17)
9 Krawcheni, A (22) .5:.5 Davenport, J (14)
10 Ivanov, N (19) 1:0 Theodosiu, P (21)
11 Abdulawahab, R (2) 1:0 Lushaj, T (8)

Roberts-Mono

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nd5 Nxd5 6.exd5 Nb4 7.Nxd4 Bc5 8.Nb3 Qe7+ 9.Be2 0–0 10.a3 Na6 11.0–0 c6 12.Nxc5 Nxc5 13.d6 Qf6 14.Be3 Ne4 15.Bf3 Re8 16.Bxe4 Rxe4 17.Qd3 Re6 18.Bd4 Qf4 19.g3 Qxd6 20.f4 b6 21.f5 Re8 22.f6 c5 23.Bc3 Qc6 24.Qf3 Qxf3 25.Rxf3 Bb7 26.Rf2 d5 27.fxg7 d4 28.Bd2 Re6 29.Raf1 Ba6 30.Re1 Rxe1+ 31.Bxe1 Re8 32.Bd2 Kxg7 33.Kg2 Re2 34.Rxe2 Bxe2 35.Kf2 Bg4 36.Bf4 b5 37.Bb8 c4 38.Be5+ Kg6 39.Bxd4 a6 40.b3 cxb3 ˝ ˝




An excellent display by Mono, meanwhile heres the Partsi-Baron game

(21) Partsi,D - Baron,M [A40]
1.d4 g6 2.Nf3 Bg7 3.Bf4 c5 4.e3 Qb6 5.b3 Nf6 6.Be2 Nc6 7.c3 0–0 8.0–0 d6 9.a3 a5 10.d5 Nb8 11.Ra2 Bf5 12.c4 a4 13.bxa4 Bd7 14.Qd3 Rxa4 15.Nc3 Ra7 16.Rb1 Qa5 17.e4 Qc7 18.h3 Rd8 19.Qe3 Qa5 20.Qd3 Nh5 21.Bd2 Nf4 22.Bxf4 Qxc3 23.e5 Qa5 24.Qe3 Re8 25.Bh6 Bh8 26.e6 fxe6 27.dxe6 Bc8 28.Bd3 Qc3 29.Ng5 Nc6 30.Qf3 Ne5 31.Qf7+ 1–0



1 Bjelobrk, I (1) : Baron, M (3)
2 Pecori, A (5) : Partsi, D (4)
3 Lindberg, G (11) : Dragicevic, D (6)
4 Zivkovic, S (18) : Voon, R (7)
5 Mono, (20) : Fletcher, A (9)
6 Lindberg, E (16) : Roberts, M (10)
7 Lindberg, D (12) : Ivanov, N (19)
8 Werlheim, S (17) : Krawcheni, A (22)
9 Davenport, J (14) : Abdulawahab, R (2)
10 Lipe, S (15) : Stokie, B (13)
11 Lushaj, T (8) : Theodosiu, P (21)

The 5th round promises an exciting build up to the final days play.

Cheers.

ursogr8
25-01-2004, 07:50 PM
The MCC Australia day OPEN experience.

I parked my car in York St and headed for the Melbourne Chess Club in Leicester St. The walk involves a pleasant stroll down Brunswick St which is now what Lygon St was in the early 60’s. That is, eccentric, eclectic and trending towards becoming commercial. It is noticeable from the parking signs that the Fitzroy residents, through their Council, are determined to reclaim their neighbourhood from the rat-runners who commute to the suburbs. The neighbourhood is on the up.

The exterior of the MCC seems to be the same with a solitary graffiti tag; probably left essentially tag-free alone in deference to the chess painting already on the exterior wall.

Inside, the foyer was more pleasant than I remembered it with a TV on low volume in the corner and signs of obvious reconstruction of the book-room run by fg7’s ‘spy’. I notice the sounds of voices coming from the analysis area. This disappointed me because it was probably the area lambasted by Jammo when, at night-times, it seemd to attract the pizza-blitz crowd. Surely they cannot be there at 11am on a Sunday I thought.

I veered right instead to enter the playing Hall behind the foyer door. Many plusses here! Players at single purpose-built tables, instead of the tressles…great. Walls painted….great. Cross-tables on the wall up-to-date…great. And best of all some faces that recognise me and smile a welcome. Pecori, Partsi, the Baron, Dragicevic, Lushaj, and others. Plenty of serious chess being played here for serious money. I note the sound of voices from the analysis area can be clearly heard in the playing Hall even though both doors are closed.

Next I look at the previous problem area, THE BACK ROOMS.
FIREGOAT, you and your team have done an excellent job cleaning and painting and carpeting.

Around the corner, the room used for the top boards during large events, looks the same. This has never been my favourite room, and particularly for top players. It is no competitor for the PIT at Ballarat. Still, conditions are usually quiet in here.

Down the corridor passed rooms that are being re-furbished. Some junk in one corner; is this the fabled CV archives? Anyhow, it has always struck me that these rooms should be the analysis rooms with closed doors; but the poser remains for all chess administrators ‘how do you get the noisy crew to go to the proper area’.

Out into the foyer again and I read the usual quirky notices on a well-kept notice-board. Is the Russian Morovich really married to Spice-girl Geri? I didn’t know if it was a joke notice?

A tall bearded man asks if I need help. Well that is a first for the MCC, in my experience.

The foyer is reached again and I admire the large poster put up many years ago by Guy West (I think) outlining expected behaviour of chess players. This is still the best exposition I have seen. It is a treasure. There is a plaque on the wall; probably I have read before; I notice that it expresses gratitude for the establishment of the building. I start reading the 4 names: Carl Nater, Edwin Malitis (I stop there. Can this be the same Malitis that WBA said "time to go". Later I hear the tall bearded man talking on the telephone to Eddie(?) Eddie is going to drop in tomorrow in the morning apparently ..sounded jovial enough. Perhaps Eddie is welcome.)

On a table in the foyer I pause to have a close look at the MCC playing calendar. This is professionally produced but there is only one copy of this document. (Although many of the general flyers). Could I half-inch this one copy to read at my leisure I muse. Then I decide that I can get fg7’s spy to get me one anyway. Idly I reflect on fg7’s answer to the BB question about the annual subscription; $100 I think he said. The three pages of the calendar list events for a full year. Entry fees, full and concession Bill, are printed very accurately, together with advice that in most events there is a $5 discount for MCC members. Not all events mind you, but many. And a couple of events are for members only. And if you played in all events $1035 + $100 by my count.

On the table in front of me is a small publication, CARE FOR A GAME, is its title. As you would expect it is a short history of the MCC complete with photos. A gem really. This is the essence of atmosphere that Ascaro talks about when he describes this Club. A huge list of champions, stretching back eons. How Ascaro would like his name to be there one day. I note that last year Guy West was MCC Champion. How much does Guy play these days?
Other pages tell me the year that GW was President and Justice Brooking and Arthur Pope. Now I remember, it was when Arthur was president that the Elizabeth St venue-conflict was at its height. Frank M. was brought in to chair VCA AGMs. And now I can read the year…1981.

Back inside the playing area I watch the Partsi game as it seems to be the most interesting.
Finally as I turn to head for the outside world and the bright sun-light, I notice the bearded man typing away at a computer terminal. Perhaps he is one of the organisers.

Down into Brunswick St to catch-up with my wife who has been window-shopping. We choose from among the many ubiquitous cafes and sit to enjoy the long week-end. I ask her again; is she sure that Pecori is near an Italian word for sheep.

And I tell her that I enjoyed seeing the MCC on the way up.

starter

firegoat7
27-01-2004, 12:47 PM
Hello Everyone,

These were the results from the fifth round of the Australia Day Open at MCC.

Bjelobrk continued to set the field alight defeating Baron (anybody remember when he last lost two games in a row). Partsi defeated Pecori in a spectacular game where Pecori went astray in time trouble. Dragicevic proved he is easily one of the most promising juniors in Victoria by overcoming G.Lindberg. On the bottom boards Mono continues to outperform, whilst Werlheim drew with the experienced Krawcheni. Tahir and Stokie finally showed the sort of form they are both capable of producing.

1 Bjelobrk, I (1) 1:0 Baron, M (3)
2 Pecori, A (5) 0:1 Partsi, D (4)
3 Lindberg, G (11) 0:1 Dragicevic, D (6)
4 Zivkovic, S (18) 0:1 Voon, R (7)
5 Mono, (20) 1:0 Fletcher, A (9)
6 Lindberg, E (16) 0:1 Roberts, M (10)
7 Lindberg, D (12) 1:0 Ivanov, N (19)
8 Werlheim, S (17) .5:.5 Krawcheni, A (22)
9 Davenport, J (14) 0:1 Abdulawahab, R (2)
10 Lipe, S (15) 0:1 Stokie, B (13)
11 Lushaj, T (8) 1:0 Theodosiu, P (21)

I apologise for the delay in updating these scores. Unfortunately I had to be replaced as arbiter due to illness. I will post round 6 and 7 later with some highlight games.

Regards FG7

P.S why didn’t you introduce yourself Starter?

ursogr8
27-01-2004, 12:56 PM
Hello Everyone,


Regards FG7

P.S why didn’t you introduce yourself Starter?

Let me re-phrase your question fg7.

Is it a risky business to walk around Brunswick St, haphazardly asking one and all, "Are you FIREGOAT?"
Is it any less risky at the MCC?

I did list those who I had met before.

starter

PS Did I capture the improved ambience in the mood piece?

bobby1972
28-01-2004, 09:24 AM
=1st 6. Bjelobrk, Igor,Dragicevic, Domagoj $200 each
3rd 5.5 Partsi, Dimitri $100

rating prize under 1800
4.5. Lindberg, Gordon,Lindberg, Douglas $50 each

Thunk
28-01-2004, 09:43 AM
=1st 6. Bjelobrk, Igor,Dragicevic, Domagoj $200 each
3rd 5.5 Partsi, Dimitri $100

rating prize under 1800
4.5. Lindberg, Gordon,Lindberg, Douglas $50 each


to barry cox

bobby1972 has succumbEd to your caps dictatE. only onE of lEft to convErt.

:cool: thE HUNK :cool:

Rincewind
28-01-2004, 11:13 AM
to barry cox

bobby1972 has succumbEd to your caps dictatE. only onE of lEft to convErt.

:cool: thE HUNK :cool:

:lol:

Not entirely. When he changes his handle to "Bobby1972" and you change yours to "thunk" I will be truely happy. ;)

Thunk
28-01-2004, 11:39 AM
:lol:

Not entirely. When he changes his handle to "Bobby1972" and you change yours to "thunk" I will be truely happy. ;)

just a quick quEstion barry.

whEn you filtEr do you do it pErsonally or do you usE thE nEw fEaturE rich functionality of thE bb?

bEcausE.





wEll you can sEE thE point.

:cool: :p thE HUNK :p :cool:

Rincewind
28-01-2004, 11:53 AM
just a quick quEstion barry.

whEn you filtEr do you do it pErsonally or do you usE thE nEw fEaturE rich functionality of thE bb?

bEcausE.

wEll you can sEE thE point.

:cool: :p thE HUNK :p :cool:

It is a personal algorithm which finely weighs up the length of your post, my interest in the topic and other factors that I can barely begin to guess at. Basically the same process that olympiad team selectors use. ;)

(Although, now instead of totally ignoring the message, I just quickly scan it for inventive swear words or the like).

WBA
28-01-2004, 07:44 PM
Starter

So very nice to see you graced our little piece of turf north of the city, I am glad you were made to feel welcomed, I would like to clarify something though, as you are mischieviously misreading my posts. Edwin Malitis is and will forever be an icon of the MCC, a life member, the longest serving committee member (to my knowledge) & previous Club Champion. This does not mean he should continue for another 20 years. EM during his period helped keep the MCC in a strong position, even though we had some difficulties, however all good things need to come to an end at some stage, and the club needed new blood. The proof is in the pudding (all the walls etc). Edwin still goes to MCC, and I personally get along with Edwin (even though we have had our tiffs :)), and rate his opinion very highly. EM has proven his professionalism as recently as the last Australian Championships held in Melbourne (a huge success). I think it was also good for EM that he was able to let go of some responsibility at MCC, he had well and truly served his sentence.

Also have you by chance included the Australian Masters qualifying tournaments in your calculations for entry fees? I doubt most players would play in that, especially say a 1600 rated player as it is aimed at a specific market.

I believe allegro will be starting in the near furture why not drop by once it starts, and intriduce yourself to all.

ursogr8
29-01-2004, 12:17 PM
Starter

So very nice to see you graced our little piece of turf north of the city, I am glad you were made to feel welcomed, I would like to clarify something though, as you are mischieviously misreading my posts. Edwin Malitis is and will forever be an icon of the MCC, a life member, the longest serving committee member (to my knowledge) & previous Club Champion. This does not mean he should continue for another 20 years. EM during his period helped keep the MCC in a strong position, even though we had some difficulties, however all good things need to come to an end at some stage, and the club needed new blood. The proof is in the pudding (all the walls etc). Edwin still goes to MCC, and I personally get along with Edwin (even though we have had our tiffs :)), and rate his opinion very highly. EM has proven his professionalism as recently as the last Australian Championships held in Melbourne (a huge success). I think it was also good for EM that he was able to let go of some responsibility at MCC, he had well and truly served his sentence.

Also have you by chance included the Australian Masters qualifying tournaments in your calculations for entry fees? I doubt most players would play in that, especially say a 1600 rated player as it is aimed at a specific market.

I believe allegro will be starting in the near furture why not drop by once it starts, and intriduce yourself to all.

WBA

I thought I fully recognised Eddie's contribution by drawing attention to the permanent plaque of appreciation that has pride of place in the foyer. I think it your words 'time to go' and 'served his sentence' that intoduce the ambiguity.

Yes, I aggregated all $ figures on the calendar. I was aware of two large ones, about $150 from memory (my spy has not come through). With these two amounts in or out I suspect there would not be too many Sydneysiders who would have been paying $700+ entry fees per year. I anticipated a reaction from them on this point. But it is clear they take one look at the THREAD NAME and pan elsewhere. (Or perhaps the mood piece was not the usual fare).

Perhaps if you could wear name tags like


':arrow: firegoat HERE'

or

'WBA support group',


it would help to make contact. Or even if the rest of the field could wear a tag saying ' I am not firegoat ' then I could work it out eventually. :hmm:

starter

WBA
29-01-2004, 04:10 PM
I thought I fully recognised Eddie's contribution by drawing attention to the permanent plaque of appreciation that has pride of place in the foyer. I think it your words 'time to go' and 'served his sentence' that intoduce the ambiguity.

By serving his sentence I am saying he has more than put in his effort, and should now have the oppurtunity to sit back and enjoy the club from a playing perspective. You did recognise, it is just you insinuated that I had not.



Yes, I aggregated all $ figures on the calendar. I was aware of two large ones, about $150 from memory (my spy has not come through). With these two amounts in or out I suspect there would not be too many Sydneysiders who would have been paying $700+ entry fees per year. I anticipated a reaction from them on this point.

Did you compare the prize money available also by any chance, including in rating groups, which allow players of all strengths to walk away with a handsome sum?



Perhaps if you could wear name tags like


':arrow: firegoat HERE'

or

'WBA support group',


it would help to make contact. Or even if the rest of the field could wear a tag saying ' I am not firegoat ' then I could work it out eventually. :hmm:


And then of course because you are aware of both of our real identities, it might have been as easy as asking do you know where ....... is? Anyway the choice was yours, glad to hear the experience was pleasant anyway

ursogr8
29-01-2004, 07:50 PM
Did you compare the prize money available also by any chance, including in rating groups, which allow players of all strengths to walk away with a handsome sum?




WBA

Well actually I did not add up all the prize-money for two reasons.
1 Ascaro has assured us in his advertising that the MCC pays out all entry fees as prizes; so I presumed that everyone would put two and two together to come to the conclusion that if the entry fees are $1000+ then the prizes will be $1000+.
2 My primary purpose was to bring to the attention of the ‘cheap-minded’ Sydneysiders that if you want a premier chess club then there are costs at a certain level that are necessary to achieve the objective. If you go back to the old BB and read long debates about how cheap they (the NSW guys) get their Club chess then you will see that I always came down on the other side and said that chess-players should pay a lot more. The clubs on NSW Leagues Club sites are seduced into near-zero subscriptions and free drinks. As a consequence there is little money for administrators to add-on ancillary benefits to the Club. This then leads to a dearth of Club volunteers (for this read the BIGGEST PROBLEM IN CHESS thread). The other down-side is that they have difficulty, in general, getting early teenagers into their weekly Club premises.

Anyhow, why draw my attention to your prizes? (WBA wrote in reply to AROSAR "I don’t have access to the entry fees". So I concentrated on reading about entry fees).)
I thought Ascaro had that job, as well as drawing comparisons with other Victorian Clubs by calling them ‘mickey mouse clubs’. (ASCARO wrote "yeah a few.hey we put that dollar sign up there and all the mickey mouse clubs go really quiet,why dont they tell every one about their prize money he he he.").

So, good on you MCC for having a culture and sticking to it. You are not the largest entry fees around; but you are at the top end. There is nothing wrong with that. It is your business model and I wish you luck with it.
There is room in Victoria for other business models at other locations. We can co-exist. We certainly are not competition for your financials and services.

starter

PHAT
30-01-2004, 12:33 AM
My primary purpose was to bring to the attention of the ‘cheap-minded’ Sydneysiders that if you want a premier chess club then there are costs at a certain level that are necessary to achieve the objective.


We have good CCs without having to put our hands too deep into our pockets. Why should we be embarrased if footy clubs want to give us money.



The clubs on NSW Leagues Club sites are seduced into near-zero subscriptions and free drinks.


FMD! Tell me again, I must have forgotten, where do I get that free beer?



... This then leads to a dearth of Club volunteers ...


We have few voluteers, not because of sponsorship,but because the NSWCA has people as members rather than clubs full of members. As a consequence have very little to no club loyality. We (NSWCA's Ralph Sebry) are going to try to rectify this with a wonderful "Club Team" series.

ursogr8
30-01-2004, 07:07 AM
We have good CCs without having to put our hands too deep into our pockets. Why should we be embarrased if footy clubs want to give us money.


I did not say you should be embarrased.
What I have said that you have ended up with a culture where too many players expect their chess at very low cost. Do you want me to go back to the old board and dig out representative posts where NSW posters have said this?
As a consequence the administrators have little spare money to spend on ancillary activities that enrich the fabric of the Club and encourage involvement. This then causes a lack of volunteers.
Welcome back btw. Please tell me you have just been lying on the sand somewhere and your memory has leaked away.




FMD

No thanks



! Tell me again, I must have forgotten, where do I get that free beer?


Go back and read Paul S’s descriptions of what he gets at his Leagues Club. Try searching something like “my soft life in a chess club at a Leagues Club”.
WE have been through all this on the ‘BIGGEST PROBLEM IN CHESS THREAD’.






We have few voluteers, not because of sponsorship,but because the NSWCA has people as members rather than clubs full of members. As a consequence have very little to no club loyality.


I don’t agree with your analysis.
But then we have been over how to get volunteers over dozens of posts. Just what did you do with ‘substances’ while you were away?


We (NSWCA's Ralph Sebry) are going to try to rectify this with a wonderful "Club Team" series.



Sounds like on the right track.

starter

Paul S
30-01-2004, 02:54 PM
WBA
The clubs on NSW Leagues Club sites are seduced into near-zero subscriptions and free drinks.

Hi Starter

Which NSW Leagues clubs offer free drinks? Let me know, as I (and Matthew, and no doubt a lot of other NSW chess players) would like to join!

I am not aware of any NSW Leagues Clubs offering free drinks (I presume you mean beer/wine/soft drink etc). Perhaps you are mistaken?

However, I am aware that:
1) The Ryde-Eastwood Leagues club does offer free coffee and tea (and biscuits) to chess players during chess comps there. Mind you, this free coffee is not to everyones liking (the coffee is cheap blend instant coffee such as International Roast or Nescafe) - I only drink this free coffee if I need a "caffiene fix" (due to lack of sleep) - I much prefer to pay $2 or so to get a coffee at their Coffee Lounge rather than drink the free stuff.
2) For members of Canterbury Leagues, there is a 20% discount on drinks at their bars upon producing a current membership card to bar staff.

The above is as close to getting free drinks at Leagues Clubs that I know of.

As I said at the start of this post, let me know which NSW Leagues Clubs are offering free drinks, as I (and Matthew, and no doubt a lot of other NSW chess players) would like to join up!

jase
30-01-2004, 05:12 PM
22 players. I thought the Sydney turnout of 54 was disappointing.

Yes, please do dig up those old BB posts Starter about NSW Chess. I think the volunteers situation up here is not at all dissimilar to Victoria.

Bill Gletsos
30-01-2004, 06:35 PM
We have few voluteers, not because of sponsorship,but because the NSWCA has people as members rather than clubs full of members.As a consequence have very little to no club loyality
Matt mate, I can't let that one pass through to the keeper. :rolleyes:

I think you are doing NSW chessplayers in general a great disservice with that comment.
The vast majority of NSW players belong to clubs. A few belong to multiple clubs but most only to one club. I think most would tell you they are loyal to their clubs. They turn up to play in club competitions in either the Western Suburbs, NSWCA grade matches or the Interleagues. Even those that dont play in any external competition are still loyal to their clubs by actually turning up an being their for either casual games or for internal club competitions.

Just look at the members of North Sydney, St. George, Manly, Rooty Hill, Hakoah, Ryde Eastwood, Koala, Canterbury Bankstown, Wollongong, Western Suburbs etc. They are all loyal to their clubs. So to are the members of the country clubs.

I'm sure Barry Cox and his team mates in the U1800 grade match team were loyal Wollongong members.

Dont you consider yourself a loyal memebr of your local club. :hmm:

Bill Gletsos
30-01-2004, 06:40 PM
The clubs on NSW Leagues Club sites are seduced into near-zero subscriptions and free drinks.
Free drinks???
Where.

ursogr8
31-01-2004, 02:27 PM
22 players. I thought the Sydney turnout of 54 was disappointing.

Yes, please do dig up those old BB posts Starter about NSW Chess. I think the volunteers situation up here is not at all dissimilar to Victoria.

Jase
First time I have responded to one of your posts I think. Anyhow, how are you?

My position on volunteers has been three areas:
1 The difficulty of attracting them at State level, and I have nagged MCC a bit because they choose not to get involved.
2 I had a really good discussion with Paul S., and Matt on the 'Biggest problem in chess thread' about the beneficial effect of a 'recognise and reward' culture in the encouragement of volunteers.
3 Centerlink will allocate a resource, to assist in chess administration, for free, under certain circumstances.

At no point did I doubt the difficulty NSW has in attracting volunteers. I have speculated that if you (NSW) have low revenue Clubs in Leagues venues then you create a culture where players are reluctant to pay much for their chess; and this has downsides.

I have not commented on the turnout for the recent MCC week-ender; nor any other week-ender except for the remarkable Ballarat last year; and of course reporting on week-enders held by my Club.

So, no need for old posts

starter

ursogr8
31-01-2004, 02:36 PM
Free drinks???
Where.

I notice that none of the esteemed posters (Matt, Paul S., and Bill) have actually challenged my claim on free beer. None of them said "starter, we don't believe you".
They all actually doubted their own memories and recall.
And of course they want their memory (and palate) refreshed.

Yes, I can tell you about the free beer. The thread that it is not in is the 'BIGGEST PROBLEM IN CHESS ' thread. I re-read all 9 pages of that; including peanbrains epic 'dirty hands' sub-thread. I thought it was there; but it is not. I think it could be in... :uhoh:

Sorry. I have to take my wife shopping; I will be back later. :p

starter

Bill Gletsos
31-01-2004, 03:17 PM
I notice that none of the esteemed posters (Matt, Paul S., and Bill) have actually challenged my claim on free beer. None of them said "starter, we don't believe you".
They all actually doubted their own memories and recall.
And of course they want their memory (and palate) refreshed.

Yes, I can tell you about the free beer. The thread that it is not in is the 'BIGGEST PROBLEM IN CHESS ' thread. I re-read all 9 pages of that; including peanbrains epic 'dirty hands' sub-thread. I thought it was there; but it is not. I think it could be in... :uhoh:

Sorry. I have to take my wife shopping; I will be back later. :p

starter
Now starter you are being mischevious. :rolleyes:
I dont recall anyone ever saying that NSW clubs had free beer.

The only mention of beer was when Matt suggested he would spend all the NSWCA funds on a booze up. :whistle:

Paul S
31-01-2004, 03:27 PM
I notice that none of the esteemed posters (Matt, Paul S., and Bill) have actually challenged my claim on free beer. None of them said "starter, we don't believe you".
They all actually doubted their own memories and recall.
And of course they want their memory (and palate) refreshed.

Yes, I can tell you about the free beer. The thread that it is not in is the 'BIGGEST PROBLEM IN CHESS ' thread. I re-read all 9 pages of that; including peanbrains epic 'dirty hands' sub-thread. I thought it was there; but it is not. I think it could be in... :uhoh:

Sorry. I have to take my wife shopping; I will be back later. :p

starter

Starter, my friend, myself, Matt and Bill aren't interested in where the free beer is NOT. We are interested in where it is!!! :D Hope you and your wife soon finish your shopping so that you can let us know where the free beer is. :doh: :wink:

BTW, there is one free drink that you CAN get at any NSW Leagues Club, and that is tap water! :owned:

ursogr8
31-01-2004, 04:55 PM
Starter, my friend, myself, Matt and Bill aren't interested in where the free beer is NOT. We are interested in where it is!!! :D Hope you and your wife soon finish your shopping so that you can let us know where the free beer is. :doh: :wink:

BTW, there is one free drink that you CAN get at any NSW Leagues Club, and that is tap water! :owned:

Paul S.

Just one more thread to look at in the search for the previous reference (hope peanbrain is not on that one too; the last one I read was unsanitary; unfairly too since you had started it off so well).
I can remember you talking about finishing your duties and then retiring to the bar. Could have sworn you said the L Club gives you a free one.

But if you are satisfied with the tap water solution then sobeit.

starter

jase
31-01-2004, 10:25 PM
At no point did I doubt the difficulty NSW has in attracting volunteers. I have speculated that if you (NSW) have low revenue Clubs in Leagues venues then you create a culture where players are reluctant to pay much for their chess; and this has downsides.

I have not commented on the turnout for the recent MCC week-ender; nor any other week-ender except for the remarkable Ballarat last year; and of course reporting on week-enders held by my Club.

starter

Firegoat referred to an "excellent" turnout of 22 players - For the only tournament in Melbourne on a Long Weekend, I thought this might have been a disappointing turnout. Up here 60 is the benchmark - which is not to say 60 is a great result - I think we were getting 60 players to weekenders 15 years ago, so we're going nowhere in Sydney presently.

Regarding volunteers, Sydney does have trouble getting enough people to pitch in here in Sydney. And, as I stated, I think this problem is not absent from the Melbourne chess scene.

You seem to have cast some aspertions on the culture of the Sydney chess scene which are not agreeable to those who actually attend these clubs. And you seem most unwilling to withdraw the 'free beer seduction' remark. Perhaps you are confused with my report of the Australia Day weekender in Sydney, where I wrote that it is my custom to adjourn to the bar after the presentations and buy players a drink?

Matt - I think Bill makes a strong point about club loyalty. we struggle to get players to weekenders but club events often have great turnouts [eg the Big Boards matches, the Inter-Leagues Rapid]. Something to consider, and to value.

firegoat7
01-02-2004, 12:52 PM
Dear chessplayers,

Jase wrote:
Firegoat referred to an "excellent" turnout of 22 players - For the only tournament in Melbourne on a Long Weekend, I thought this might have been a disappointing turnout. Up here 60 is the benchmark - which is not to say 60 is a great result - I think we were getting 60 players to weekenders 15 years ago, so we're going nowhere in Sydney presently. Well of course it depends on the measurement. Whilst your statement may be true in Sydney it does not equate to it being true in Melbourne (Box Hill excepted starter-they always have large numbers :wink: ). So please consider the context. This was the first Australian Day weekender for two years. Four players over 2000. The tournament posted a small profit. A small but modest success, we were wrapped with the turnout.

regards FG7

peanbrain
01-02-2004, 02:23 PM
Dear chessplayers,

Jase wrote: Well of course it depends on the measurement. Whilst your statement may be true in Sydney it does not equate to it being true in Melbourne (Box Hill excepted starter-they always have large numbers :wink: ). So please consider the context. This was the first Australian Day weekender for two years. Four players over 2000. The tournament posted a small profit. A small but modest success, we were wrapped with the turnout.

regards FG7

I wonder how many people DIDN'T turn up because the goat was behind it?! :whistle:

ursogr8
01-02-2004, 02:31 PM
Firegoat referred to an "excellent" turnout of 22 players - For the only tournament in Melbourne on a Long Weekend, I thought this might have been a disappointing turnout. Up here 60 is the benchmark - which is not to say 60 is a great result - I think we were getting 60 players to weekenders 15 years ago, so we're going nowhere in Sydney presently.



I notice fg7 has responded to your observation on the MCC week-ender. I am not a member of the MCC so I have not presumed to comment on their turnout.




You seem to have cast some aspertions on the culture of the Sydney chess scene which are not agreeable to those who actually attend these clubs.



What I know of the Sydney scene has only been obtained by posts through this board. So you can help me understand more by advising which Sydney Club holds weekly evening events with a significant number of juniors in the event. At the moment my view of Sydney evening clubs is almost entirely governed by Ian Rogers newspaper article that was discussed at length on the old BB.



And you seem most unwilling to withdraw the 'free beer seduction' remark.



Jase
You were not on my original list, because you did not ask to be on my list. Only Matt, Bill and Paul S. have been ‘in the know’.
I can now ‘announce’ that the ‘free beer post’ that I was referring to was deleted in the Brazilian hack. Fortunately I have found a hard-copy at the foot of some old posts on a different topic which I was retaining until Paul S. got his funds approved for the best post. So, this good news. If Matt, Bill, and Paul S. would like to send me $5 each I will send a hard-copy of the post you seek on ‘free beer’ (the $5 will cover copying and postge.



Perhaps you are confused with my report of the Australia Day weekender in Sydney, where I wrote that it is my custom to adjourn to the bar after the presentations and buy players a drink?



Well, there you are. You know a location too.





Matt - I think Bill makes a strong point about club loyalty. we struggle to get players to weekenders but club events often have great turnouts [eg the Big Boards matches, the Inter-Leagues Rapid]. Something to consider, and to value.


Is it a co-incidence that the events you re reporting are well attended in fact have no junk rounds as a consequence of the structure of the event? Can we draw the conclusion that players will attend with a big turn-out if they are guaranteed all games will be competitive; i.e no junk rounds?


starter

Kevin Bonham
01-02-2004, 05:53 PM
I would be surprised if the presence or absence of junk rounds influences more than 5% of decisions to play or not to play. However we don't just want lots of people to play, we want them to play and be happy, so in saying that I'm not saying the issue doesn't matter.

I don't think Hobart will be seeing another normal Swiss for a while, with our 1400-point spreads in 30-player fields, even our last two accelerateds have only seen one higher-rated victim in the first round. And that doesn't count, because the victim was me. :sad:

Bill Gletsos
01-02-2004, 06:44 PM
starter,
For your information the InterLeagues Rapid is a non accelearated swiss event where people dont play as members of teams but as individuals. Those individuals do however score points for their clubs depending on where they finish in the tournament. This tournament usualy has in excess of 100 players.

DoroPhil
01-02-2004, 08:34 PM
Hi,

So what happened in rounds 6&7 of this thing? Results, games, highlights, commentary? Firegoat ? Thx

ursogr8
01-02-2004, 09:17 PM
:eek:

I would be surprised if the presence or absence of junk rounds influences more than 5% of decisions to play or not to play. However we don't just want lots of people to play, we want them to play and be happy, so in saying that I'm not saying the issue doesn't matter.



Gee Kevin
It looks rather scientific when you quote a % like that. Some intellectual honesty for not including a decimal point , as others might have been tempted.

Actually, I feel like Bill for the moment when I say, "show me the evidence".

But I know any evidence in anecdotal only.
However, for what it is worth, NSW is reporting that best attended tourneys are those where there is guaranteed competitiveness.

VIC observes similar.

And AUS championships in SA (the top division) contained peole who would not normally catch a bus to a tournament.

You have got to at least wonder why. And have a theory (as a scientist that is).

starter

PHAT
01-02-2004, 09:52 PM
Matt mate, I can't let that one pass through to the keeper. :rolleyes:

I think you are doing NSW chessplayers in general a great disservice with that comment.
The vast majority of NSW players belong to clubs. A few belong to multiple clubs but most only to one club. I think most would tell you they are loyal to their clubs. ...

I'm sure Barry Cox and his team mates in the U1800 grade match team were loyal Wollongong members.

Dont you consider yourself a loyal memebr of your local club. :hmm:

Hmmm. I guess that I do not realy know if you are right or wrong about NSW players level of loyalty. I made my comment because, in the 4 years of fequenting chess events, I have never heard anyone banging on about the superiority of their club, singing its praises, or slagging off the opposition. There appears to be no sentiment of "MY CLUB - RIGHT OR WRONG", that I would use to destiguish club membership from club loyalty. If such loyalty does exist, I have not seen it.

It would be great to see member of a club turn-up to an event in a kit. I wonder if NSWCA events should include a "Best Club Performance" prize!!!!

firegoat7
01-02-2004, 10:23 PM
Hi,

Point taken Dorophil. I am sorry about the delay. I though after bobby posted the results nobody would be really interested. Anyway here they are for you.

Round 6

1 Bjelobrk, I (1) 1:0 Baron, M (3)
2 Pecori, A (5) 0:1 Partsi, D (4)
3 Lindberg, G (11) 0:1 Dragicevic, D (6)
4 Zivkovic, S (18) 0:1 Voon, R (7)
5 Mono, (20) 1:0 Fletcher, A (9)
6 Lindberg, E (16) 0:1 Roberts, M (10)
7 Lindberg, D (12) 1:0 Ivanov, N (19)
8 Werlheim, S (17) .5:.5 Krawcheni, A (22)
9 Davenport, J (14) 0:1 Abdulawahab, R (2)
10 Lipe, S (15) 0:1 Stokie, B (13)
11 Lushaj, T (8) 1:0 Theodosiu, P (21)

Round 7

No Name Result Name

1 Bjelobrk, I (1) .5:.5 Abdulawahab, R (2)
2 Dragicevic, D (6) 1:0 Baron, M (3)
3 Roberts, M (10) .5:.5 Partsi, D (4)
4 Lindberg, D (12) 1:0 Voon, R (7)
5 Lindberg, G (11) 1:0 Werlheim, S (17)
6 Pecori, A (5) 1:0 Mono, (20)
7 Fletcher, A (9) .5:.5 Davenport, J (14)
8 Lindberg, E (16) 1:0 Zivkovic, S (18)
9 Ivanov, N (19) 1:0 Lipe, S (15)
10 Theodosiu, P (21) 0:1 Stokie, B (13)
11 Krawcheni, A (22) 0:0 BYE

Final cross table

No Name Feder Rtg 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

1. Bjelobrk, Igor 6:W 12:W 4:D 11:W 3:W 7:W 2:D
2. Abdulawahab, Rasheed 7:D 5:L 19:L 8:W 14:W 20:W 1:D
3. Baron, Michael 8:W 22:W 10:W 4:L 1:L 5:W 6:L
4. Partsi, Dimitri 9:W 14:W 1:D 3:W 5:W 6:L 10:D
5. Pecori, Ascaro 10:L 2:W 15:W 9:W 4:L 3:L 20:W
6. Dragicevic, Domagoj 1:L 7:W 14:W 12:W 11:W 4:W 3:W
7. Voon, Richard 2:D 6:L 8:W 16:W 18:W 1:L 12:L
8. Lushaj, Tahir 3:L 16:L 7:L 2:L 21:W 15:- :
9. Fletcher, Andrew 4:L 17:W 22:W 5:L 20:L 19:W 14:D
10. Roberts, Mark 5:W 18:D 3:L 20:D 16:W 12:D 4:D
11. Lindberg, Gordon 16:W 20:D 18:W 1:L 6:L 13:W 17:W
12. Lindberg, Douglas 17:W 1:L 20:W 6:L 19:W 10:D 7:W
13. Stokie, Bill 18:L 19:W 16:L 17:L 15:W 11:L 21:W
14. Davenport, John 19:W 4:L 6:L 22:D 2:L 21:W 9:D
15. Lipe, Sam 20:L 21:W 5:L 18:L 13:L 8:+ 19:L
16. Lindberg, Eric 11:L 8:W 13:W 7:L 10:L 22:D 18:W
17. Werlheim, Steve 12:L 9:L 21:W 13:W 22:D 18:W 11:L
18. Zivkovic, Sam 13:W 10:D 11:L 15:W 7:L 17:L 16:L
19. Ivanov, Nick 14:L 13:L 2:W 21:W 12:L 9:L 15:W
20. Mono, 15:W 11:D 12:L 10:D 9:W 2:L 5:L
21. Theodosiu, Peter 22:L 15:D 17:L 19:L 8:L 14:L 13:L
22. Krawcheni, Andrei 21:W 3:L 9:L 14:D 17:D 16:D :L


Congratulations to Bjelobrk and Dragicevic for sharing first. I would also like to thank all the players for making this an enjoyable event. Hope to see you all again soon.

Cheers FG7

Bill Gletsos
01-02-2004, 11:04 PM
Hmmm. I guess that I do not realy know if you are right or wrong about NSW players level of loyalty. I made my comment because, in the 4 years of fequenting chess events, I have never heard anyone banging on about the superiority of their club, singing its praises, or slagging off the opposition. There appears to be no sentiment of "MY CLUB - RIGHT OR WRONG", that I would use to destiguish club membership from club loyalty. If such loyalty does exist, I have not seen it.
I guess thats where we disagree.

I think most players see weekenders as tournaments for individuals and not as team events. Therefore their club doesnt come into it.

Players choose to represent their clubs in team events.
They also show loyalty to their club by turning up and playing in club events.
After all if no one turned up to play in club events the clubs would most certainly die.

Bill Gletsos
01-02-2004, 11:10 PM
fg7,
Might I suggest that you get the SP files for the MCC Australia Day weekender to the VIC Ratings Officer ASAP so that it can be rated in the March 2004 ratings.

Paul S
01-02-2004, 11:18 PM
I can now ‘announce’ that the ‘free beer post’ that I was referring to was deleted in the Brazilian hack. Fortunately I have found a hard-copy at the foot of some old posts on a different topic which I was retaining until Paul S. got his funds approved for the best post. So, this good news. If Matt, Bill, and Paul S. would like to send me $5 each I will send a hard-copy of the post you seek on ‘free beer’ (the $5 will cover copying and postge.


Dear Starter

Gee, $5 is a bit steep in my book! :eek: Postage stamp (50c) + making photocopy (20c) + envelope (30c) comes to $1. If the roles were reversed, I would have been happy to mail to you for free!

Have made a bit of a start in trying to find some suitable candidate posts for best ACF BB post of 2003. During my travels on old BB I discovered that I can access (with some difficulty!) the "missing Brazilian Hack BB Posts" - refer to http://www.auschess.org.au/bbposts.zip . (Also refer to Paul B post of 10.33am 26/11/03 in thread "Missing Posts" in "News" section on old ACF BB).

Therefore, there is no need for you to send me, Matt, Bill and Jason a photocopy (and make $4 profit out of each of us!). Just tell us the 1) thread, 2) name of poster, 3) date of post and 4) time of post. Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason will then be able to find it (with some difficulty) at http://www.auschess.org.au/bbposts.zip

Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason are starting to get impatient for some free Leagues Club beer! :mad: :wink:


:eek:

Actually, I feel like Bill for the moment when I say, "show me the evidence".

starter

Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason are still waiting for you to "show me the evidence" as to where we can get some FREE NSW Leagues Club beer!

:D :wink: :confused: :p :mad:

P.S. I have a couple of your posts in mind for a suitable candidate for best ACF BB post of 2003!

Kevin Bonham
02-02-2004, 12:46 AM
Actually, I feel like Bill for the moment when I say, "show me the evidence".

Actually I don't think you do, or if you do I'm not sure Bill would be too flattered by the comparison. :eek:

You are the one implying a radical factual assertion (that junk rounds affect participation levels significantly) that could lead to a significant policy change. I am simply asking "what ya got?", 'cause I don't reckon it's much. So you show me the evidence. :naughty: :p


And AUS championships in SA (the top division) contained peole who would not normally catch a bus to a tournament.

You have got to at least wonder why. And have a theory (as a scientist that is).

Sure, my theory is that this tournament was the Australian Championships and the tournaments they would not catch a bus to were not.

The Aus Champs has prizemoney, prestige, title opportunities, and lots of strong opponents (which causes it to be frequently considered important by Olympiad selectors). Those seems far more likely to be relevant to players than whether the average rating difference per round was 200, 300 or whatever.

bobby1972
02-02-2004, 09:13 AM
there were 2 forfeits FM abdula wahab on sunday morning could not get there on time from dandenong and sam zivkovic did not turn up for last round

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 10:15 AM
Actually I don't think you do, or if you do I'm not sure Bill would be too flattered by the comparison. :eek:

You are the one implying a radical factual assertion (that junk rounds affect participation levels significantly) that could lead to a significant policy change. I am simply asking "what ya got?", 'cause I don't reckon it's much. So you show me the evidence. :naughty: :p


Kevin
Your 5% figure is not defended; have you retracted this assertion?
Agreed, most of my 'evidence ' is anecdotal. I said this already.



Sure, my theory is that this tournament was the Australian Championships and the tournaments they would not catch a bus to were not.

The Aus Champs has prizemoney, prestige, title opportunities, and lots of strong opponents (which causes it to be frequently considered important by Olympiad selectors). Those seems far more likely to be relevant to players than whether the average rating difference per round was 200, 300 or whatever.

Agreed. All these other decision factors confound the influence of each other and the competitiveness factor as well.

So, to summarise. You doubt the evidence. Thus, you don't have to have a theory to explain the effect?

starter

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 10:28 AM
Dear Starter

Gee, $5 is a bit steep in my book! :eek: Postage stamp (50c) + making photocopy (20c) + envelope (30c) comes to $1. If the roles were reversed, I would have been happy to mail to you for free!

Have made a bit of a start in trying to find some suitable candidate posts for best ACF BB post of 2003. During my travels on old BB I discovered that I can access (with some difficulty!) the "missing Brazilian Hack BB Posts" - refer to http://www.auschess.org.au/bbposts.zip . (Also refer to Paul B post of 10.33am 26/11/03 in thread "Missing Posts" in "News" section on old ACF BB).

Therefore, there is no need for you to send me, Matt, Bill and Jason a photocopy (and make $4 profit out of each of us!). Just tell us the 1) thread, 2) name of poster, 3) date of post and 4) time of post. Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason will then be able to find it (with some difficulty) at http://www.auschess.org.au/bbposts.zip

Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason are starting to get impatient for some free Leagues Club beer! :mad: :wink:



Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason are still waiting for you to "show me the evidence" as to where we can get some FREE NSW Leagues Club beer!

:D :wink: :confused: :p :mad:

P.S. I have a couple of your posts in mind for a suitable candidate for best ACF BB post of 2003!

Paul S.

That postscript has ruined it all.
With fg7 watching everything we do, the last thing I can risk is a conflict of interest influence . If I tell your crew where the free beer is to be had then I will be accused of swaying your management of the best BB post prize.
Sorry mate. I can't do anything to give rise to the dreaded conflict of interest charge. Look at the strife Jammo is in, and he doesn't even know what the conflict of interest involves.

I can't even agree to send you hard-copy any more because the whole BB now knows I am in line for a prize, and you are looking for free beer. :hand:

starter

ps
Here is a guarantee I will buy each of the fab-four a beer if you can make it for the 2004 VICTORIAN OPEN week-ender.

Garvinator
02-02-2004, 12:22 PM
Here is a guarantee I will buy each of the fab-four a beer if you can make it for the 2004 VICTORIAN OPEN week-ender.
does this include me as im planning on going :whistle:

skip to my lou
02-02-2004, 12:32 PM
starter: stop using extremely large text

thanks

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 12:35 PM
does this include me as im planning on going :whistle:

gg'yy

The deal is on for you if you agree to cease-and-desist single-line tags in random threads as a way of maintaining your post-count differential. :shhh:


starter

ps
BTW here is a little puzzle for you to run through your google-search. Which VICTORIAN municipality has voted at referendums for 100 years to remain as a dry area?

jase
02-02-2004, 12:36 PM
ps
Here is a guarantee I will buy each of the fab-four a beer if you can make it for the 2004 VICTORIAN OPEN week-ender.



Well, there you are. You know a location too.

By this flimsy rationale I could now declare that competitors in Victoria are seduced by low entry fees and and free drinks. But that would be a bit pathetic.



Is it a co-incidence that the events you re reporting are well attended in fact have no junk rounds as a consequence of the structure of the event?

Did you overlook Bill's comment, or have you chosen to ignore it?


starter,
For your information the InterLeagues Rapid is a non accelearated swiss event where people dont play as members of teams but as individuals.

You also have a curious definition of how to measure success at adult events:


So you can help me understand more by advising which Sydney Club holds weekly evening events with a significant number of juniors in the event.

I don't agree with this assessment at all. I think it's great to encourage juniors into adult competition; the NSWCA can chalk this up as one of their successes in recent years, with perhaps 25% of players being juniors. However adult players, in my view, would much prefer to be playing other adults. Which is not to say that juniors are discouraged; rather, clubs need to encourage more adults to compete. I don't think that a high proportion of junior competitors acts as an incentive for adult players. It may even be a small disincentive.

I cannot agree that a chess club must have "a significant number of juniors" to be successful

Regarding the initial direction of this thread, if 22 players at the tournament is measured as a success, then great - I hope the next tournament they run gets twice as many :owned:

Paul S
02-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Paul S.

That postscript has ruined it all.
With fg7 watching everything we do, the last thing I can risk is a conflict of interest influence . If I tell your crew where the free beer is to be had then I will be accused of swaying your management of the best BB post prize.
Sorry mate. I can't do anything to give rise to the dreaded conflict of interest charge. Look at the strife Jammo is in, and he doesn't even know what the conflict of interest involves.

I can't even agree to send you hard-copy any more because the whole BB now knows I am in line for a prize, and you are looking for free beer. :hand:

starter

ps
Here is a guarantee I will buy each of the fab-four a beer if you can make it for the 2004 VICTORIAN OPEN week-ender.

Stsrter

There is no need for the postscript to ruin anything! All it means is that I will put up one of your posts (I will select one from the couple I have in mind) as a candidate for BB post of the year, along with posts from several others. :D There is no conflict of interest involved, as I would have selected you whether or not you tell me where I can get free Leagues club beer. :cool: I wouldn't worry about what a goat has to say!

If anything you are doing yourself a disservice by stonewalling :wall: on this issue, as NSW chess players may be less inclined to vote for you if you know of free Leagues Club beer, but refuse to tell them where it is.

As stated before, just tell us the 1) thread, 2) name of poster, 3) date of post and 4) time of post. Myself, Matt, Bill and Jason will then be able to find it (with some difficulty) at http://www.auschess.org.au/bbposts.zip and avail ourselves of some free beer. :clap:

BTW, Starter, its OK to admit "I (Starter) was wrong" when you make a mistake. :eek: :lol: :p

Unfortunately for me Melbourne is a bit too far to travel (and going there in mid-winter dioes not exactly inspire me), just for a free beer, so I regret I will have to decline your kind offer. :lol:

jase
02-02-2004, 01:35 PM
I have meant to comment, but have been sidetracked by other points of discussion, that I really enjoyed starter's piece on his recent visit to the MCC.

I thought it was an excellent piece of writing that conveyed the environment and starter's experience in returning there.

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 01:53 PM
I have meant to comment, but have been sidetracked by other points of discussion, that I really enjoyed starter's piece on his recent visit to the MCC.

I thought it was an excellent piece of writing that conveyed the environment and starter's experience in returning there.

Why thank you Jase.


starter

ps
Do you need Paul S.'s address? :uhoh:
He is deciding best BB posts. :hmm:
D.arn :eek:
He is doing it for 2003, and this MCC piece was in 2004. :sad:
Forget the question. :rolleyes:

skip to my lou
02-02-2004, 01:57 PM
who said there is no best post for 2004? maybe even every 6 months :p

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 02:21 PM
Did you overlook Bill's comment, or have you chosen to ignore it?



Jase
Yes, I ignored (not overlooked) Bill’s message because it
1) showed I had made a false conclusion,
2) was evidence that did not suit the point I was trying to make.

Nevertheless, my action has not detracted from the point that I make; that is, players are drawn to events where the structure guarantees competitive games rather than junk rounds.
It is quite possible with high prize-money, or very enjoyable playing conditions to still attract a very commendable crowd.





You also have a curious definition of how to measure success at adult events:


I don't agree with this assessment at all. I think it's great to encourage juniors into adult competition; the NSWCA can chalk this up as one of their successes in recent years, with perhaps 25% of players being juniors. However adult players, in my view, would much prefer to be playing other adults. Which is not to say that juniors are discouraged; rather, clubs need to encourage more adults to compete. I don't think that a high proportion of junior competitors acts as an incentive for adult players. It may even be a small disincentive.



You know Jase, you may well be correct. It is awful to lose to an U10.
Denis Bourmistrov was our first junior and I could beat him for the first year he was at the Club. Now that he is Australian Junior Champion I do struggle to beat him; Denis is the #1 seed in our AUTUMN Cup SWISS.
Ruperto Lugo was our next junior and I could beat him until he returned from his first WORLD JUNIOR.
Michelle Lee was our first girl junior and I could not beat her after her first 6 months at the Club.
I can’t beat Sam Chow, John Nemeth, Domagoj Dragicevic, nor another 5 juniors I could name at Box Hill.
So JASE that is 11 juniors I can’t beat. Just where do you see these juniors playing if not at an adults Club? At week-enders only? Amongst themselves in Junior titles? Are you saying the juniors should be confined away from playing in Adult Clubs.

Or should we take the other tack and encourage the Adults to say “You know, I like my Club because I get a chance to play against up-and-coming champions”.




I cannot agree that a chess club must have "a significant number of juniors" to be successful




So where is your growth and replenishment coming from?


Jase >>> Just go and have a look at the very last sentence on the 6th post that Paul S. has put on the best posts thread. (I will help by reproducing here; but the whole post is worth reading...I think a vibrant junior environment creates an active senior environment.)

starter

Kevin Bonham
02-02-2004, 03:04 PM
Kevin
Your 5% figure is not defended; have you retracted this assertion?

Not an assertion, I just said I would be surprised if you could prove the number of people influenced exceeded 5%. I am challenging you to prove otherwise if you can.


So, to summarise. You doubt the evidence. Thus, you don't have to have a theory to explain the effect?

You haven't demonstrated an effect on player numbers. Unless the proof was on some thread that I slept through.

jase
02-02-2004, 05:03 PM
Are you saying the juniors should be confined away from playing in Adult Clubs.


I have no objection to juniors competing against adults, either in tournament or at club level. Please engage with what is written when posting a response, rather than persisting with glib and/or sarcastic rhetoric that does not reflect the post you are replying to. Constructive debate is problematic when you continually misrepresent posts, or ignore points of difference because they do not suit your argument.

Having strong juniors competing at clubs is great; additionally there is plenty of "growth and replishment [starter]" to be found by attracting new players to chess competition, and encouraging those who have dropped out of the chess scene to return.

In my experience there is a dearth of players aged 18 - 35. Once they are no longer among the junior ranks, there appears to be a very high drop-out rate. The tournament scene here in Sydney, in my estimation, consists of 25% juniors, with the vast majority of the remaining 75% aged over 35. This data is anecdotal, based largely on my experiences running tournaments in the last couple of years. Bill may be able to qualify some of these remarks.

Presently in Sydney the junior environment is extremely "vibrant". Heaps of kids enter tournaments and go to clubs. It has not created an "active senior environment". Adult playing numbers are down. One does not create "growth and replishment" by encouraging kids to join in, only for those numbers to vanish once school finishes. These juniors need to be retained. Presently that is not the case in Sydney. My own Box Hill CC experience is now 4 years out of date; there was a healthy number of players on the couple of nights I attended; the playing group reflected very similar age demographics to those I have remarked upon above.

Bill Gletsos
02-02-2004, 06:28 PM
Nevertheless, my action has not detracted from the point that I make; that is, players are drawn to events where the structure guarantees competitive games rather than junk rounds.
It is quite possible with high prize-money, or very enjoyable playing conditions to still attract a very commendable crowd.
Unfortunately for you the Interleagues Rapid disproves this theory. :whistle:
Although there is over 100 players there is no prize money just trophies.

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 06:32 PM
Please engage with what is written when posting a response, rather than persisting with glib and/or sarcastic rhetoric that does not reflect the post you are replying to. Constructive debate is problematic when you continually misrepresent posts, or ignore points of difference because they do not suit your argument.



OK Jase,

I will try to lift my game.

starter

ursogr8
02-02-2004, 06:36 PM
Not an assertion, I just said I would be surprised if you could prove the number of people influenced exceeded 5%. I am challenging you to prove otherwise if you can.



You haven't demonstrated an effect on player numbers. Unless the proof was on some thread that I slept through.

Kevin
I can't prove it. I have said this a few times. I still believe it.
No proof available.

ursogr8
21-03-2004, 10:46 PM
The MCC Australia day OPEN experience.

I parked my car in York St and headed for the Melbourne Chess Club in Leicester St. The walk involves a pleasant stroll down Brunswick St which is now what Lygon St was in the early 60’s. That is, eccentric, eclectic and trending towards becoming commercial. It is noticeable from the parking signs that the Fitzroy residents, through their Council, are determined to reclaim their neighbourhood from the rat-runners who commute to the suburbs. The neighbourhood is on the up.

The exterior of the MCC seems to be the same with a solitary graffiti tag; probably left essentially tag-free alone in deference to the chess painting already on the exterior wall.

Inside, the foyer was more pleasant than I remembered it with a TV on low volume in the corner and signs of obvious reconstruction of the book-room run by fg7’s ‘spy’. I notice the sounds of voices coming from the analysis area. This disappointed me because it was probably the area lambasted by Jammo when, at night-times, it seemd to attract the pizza-blitz crowd. Surely they cannot be there at 11am on a Sunday I thought.

I veered right instead to enter the playing Hall behind the foyer door. Many plusses here! Players at single purpose-built tables, instead of the tressles…great. Walls painted….great. Cross-tables on the wall up-to-date…great. And best of all some faces that recognise me and smile a welcome. Pecori, Partsi, the Baron, Dragicevic, Lushaj, and others. Plenty of serious chess being played here for serious money. I note the sound of voices from the analysis area can be clearly heard in the playing Hall even though both doors are closed.

Next I look at the previous problem area, THE BACK ROOMS.
FIREGOAT, you and your team have done an excellent job cleaning and painting and carpeting.

Around the corner, the room used for the top boards during large events, looks the same. This has never been my favourite room, and particularly for top players. It is no competitor for the PIT at Ballarat. Still, conditions are usually quiet in here.

Down the corridor passed rooms that are being re-furbished. Some junk in one corner; is this the fabled CV archives? Anyhow, it has always struck me that these rooms should be the analysis rooms with closed doors; but the poser remains for all chess administrators ‘how do you get the noisy crew to go to the proper area’.

Out into the foyer again and I read the usual quirky notices on a well-kept notice-board. Is the Russian Morovich really married to Spice-girl Geri? I didn’t know if it was a joke notice?

A tall bearded man asks if I need help. Well that is a first for the MCC, in my experience.

The foyer is reached again and I admire the large poster put up many years ago by Guy West (I think) outlining expected behaviour of chess players. This is still the best exposition I have seen. It is a treasure. There is a plaque on the wall; probably I have read before; I notice that it expresses gratitude for the establishment of the building. I start reading the 4 names: Carl Nater, Edwin Malitis (I stop there. Can this be the same Malitis that WBA said "time to go". Later I hear the tall bearded man talking on the telephone to Eddie(?) Eddie is going to drop in tomorrow in the morning apparently ..sounded jovial enough. Perhaps Eddie is welcome.)

On a table in the foyer I pause to have a close look at the MCC playing calendar. This is professionally produced but there is only one copy of this document. (Although many of the general flyers). Could I half-inch this one copy to read at my leisure I muse. Then I decide that I can get fg7’s spy to get me one anyway. Idly I reflect on fg7’s answer to the BB question about the annual subscription; $100 I think he said. The three pages of the calendar list events for a full year. Entry fees, full and concession Bill, are printed very accurately, together with advice that in most events there is a $5 discount for MCC members. Not all events mind you, but many. And a couple of events are for members only. And if you played in all events $1035 + $100 by my count.

On the table in front of me is a small publication, CARE FOR A GAME, is its title. As you would expect it is a short history of the MCC complete with photos. A gem really. This is the essence of atmosphere that Ascaro talks about when he describes this Club. A huge list of champions, stretching back eons. How Ascaro would like his name to be there one day. I note that last year Guy West was MCC Champion. How much does Guy play these days?
Other pages tell me the year that GW was President and Justice Brooking and Arthur Pope. Now I remember, it was when Arthur was president that the Elizabeth St venue-conflict was at its height. Frank M. was brought in to chair VCA AGMs. And now I can read the year…1981.

Back inside the playing area I watch the Partsi game as it seems to be the most interesting.
Finally as I turn to head for the outside world and the bright sun-light, I notice the bearded man typing away at a computer terminal. Perhaps he is one of the organisers.

Down into Brunswick St to catch-up with my wife who has been window-shopping. We choose from among the many ubiquitous cafes and sit to enjoy the long week-end. I ask her again; is she sure that Pecori is near an Italian word for sheep.

And I tell her that I enjoyed seeing the MCC on the way up.

starter

Is firegoat there?
Today I happened across a glossy magazine called 'Melbourne something', and it had a great feature on the MCC. It read much better than my rambling piece above. And it had pics too.
You know, when I was looking at the pics lo and behold I could see a mahogany board headed Victorian Chess Champions. I thought to myself, bloody Chess VICTORIA, they have left behind one of their honour boards.
Can I help you mate? Do you want me to razz some of the CV EXECUTIVE to come and pick-up their artefact? I still talk to them.

starter

WBA
22-03-2004, 01:52 AM
Is firegoat there?
Today I happened across a glossy magazine called 'Melbourne something', and it had a great feature on the MCC. It read much better than my rambling piece above. And it had pics too.
You know, when I was looking at the pics lo and behold I could see a mahogany board headed Victorian Chess Champions. I thought to myself, bloody Chess VICTORIA, they have left behind one of their honour boards.
Can I help you mate? Do you want me to razz some of the CV EXECUTIVE to come and pick-up their artefact? I still talk to them.

starter

Starter

Just in case you have failed to grasp this so far... There is no CV property at the MCC, all honour boards trophies etc CV/VCA informed Melbourne could be discarded. Melbourne in its wisdom decided this WAS (and certainly still is) an important historical item and continued updating this board and proudly display it. This honour board became Melbourne Poperty about 20 years ago I believe, though if you consider it completely necessary I can verify the date a little closer.

If however you had read the numerous posts debating issues between MCC and CV you would of course have realised that there is NO CV property at the MCC....

ursogr8
22-03-2004, 07:17 AM
Starter

Just in case you have failed to grasp this so far... There is no CV property at the MCC, all honour boards trophies etc CV/VCA informed Melbourne could be discarded. Melbourne in its wisdom decided this WAS (and certainly still is) an important historical item and continued updating this board and proudly display it. This honour board became Melbourne Poperty about 20 years ago I believe, though if you consider it completely necessary I can verify the date a little closer.

If however you had read the numerous posts debating issues between MCC and CV you would of course have realised that there is NO CV property at the MCC....

hi WBA
I had seen one-only post that said there was no longer any CV property at MCC. In fact the original bone of contention by fg7 was that CV had left valuable artefacts at the MCC and they were hindering the clean-up, as well as being disrespectfully treated by CV.
Anyway, when fg7 first posted that the artefacts had been removed we stopped discussing that source of irritation on the BB; and moved on. I can't recall the artefacts being mentioned since that first notice of removal.

And as I said, out of the blue I am reading this glossy Melbourne magazine and I see something headed Victorian Chess Champions on a mahogany board situated in the MCC. Also, I can recall the old VCA paying invoices to update the lettering on the board year-on-year. Curious that they would pay to have it updated given that it had become MCC property; must be a sense of goodwill in those days. :eek:

Anyway, if you say it is yours then it must be yours, now.

starter

ursogr8
22-03-2004, 07:28 AM
starter,
For your information the InterLeagues Rapid is a non accelearated swiss event where people dont play as members of teams but as individuals. Those individuals do however score points for their clubs depending on where they finish in the tournament. This tournament usualy has in excess of 100 players.

Bill, have you calculated the metric? Is this InterLeagues Rapid, (a non accelearated swiss), an event that has a competitive index of less than 300 for all rounds?
starter