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Oepty
11-08-2005, 06:49 PM
I see FIDE have organised a World Championships in San Lius to run from September 27th. Does anyone here care about this tournament or think it should in anyway be regarded as a World Championship. It seems alot better than the knockouts but the lack of Kramnik playing does seem to be a bit of a problem for them.
Scott

WhiteElephant
11-08-2005, 07:04 PM
I see FIDE have organised a World Championships in San Lius to run from September 27th. Does anyone here care about this tournament or think it should in anyway be regarded as a World Championship. It seems alot better than the knockouts but the lack of Kramnik playing does seem to be a bit of a problem for them.
Scott

I think the idea is that this will be the undisputed, unified, once-and-for-all World Champion. About time, it will great for the profile of chess, sponsorship, and I will be able to finally telll my students who the World Champion is. I don't think the lack of Kramnik is a big deal - his form has dropped off lately and all the other top players are there.

solkrov
11-08-2005, 11:20 PM
if this is really a unification match, then it is great for chess. i agree that kramnik's absence won't be a factor with so many strong players today. his strength is diminshing and i even saw a game where he lost to the much younger karjakin in a very tactical sicilian game. says there that the young karj is fish in the water in those positions. let the games begin!

Garvinator
12-08-2005, 01:06 AM
Even though this world championship might be billed by fide as a match for the classical world championship, it will be in reality just a qualifier for the winner to play Kramnik for the classical world chess championship.

You can use whatever claims you want to to say that Kramnik is not the best player in the world at the moment, but the facts are that he is the reigning classical world chess champion and every top player knows he holds the title.

This is a fact that fide has never been able to get past. I will be willing to bet that a reunification match will occur between the winner of this tourament in Argentina and Kramnik if Anand or some other big name wins the tournament.

The match will be held as surely as the sun rises in the east if Anand wins the tournament as India will back the reunification match to the hilt.

Ian Rout
12-08-2005, 09:21 AM
The position is not unlike 1948 after Alekhin died. A six-player tournament was organised to select the World Champion (reduced to five by the time it started). From there the normal cycle resumed.

Kramnik's claims to be the World Champion are slightly weaker than Fischer's. The argument is the same - since he beat Kasparov nobody has beaten him. However his solitary defence was against a challenger selected by a process which did not include the world's top rated player, and did include a player whose only qualificaton was being a citizen of the host country. So it can reasonably be argued that his title has expired.

The reason I say his claims are weaker than Fischer's is that there is a strong case that he should not be considered ever to have been the champion, as he beat a player whose title had run out. Kasparov defended his title against a universally accepted challenger in 1993 but after that he failed to participate in any legitimate process.

Kasparov's 1995 defence was against a challenger selected by a process he himself organised, and his 2000 match was even less legitimate - he simply chose Kramnik. Kasparov has trouble with the concept of arms length - a troubling weakness for someone who aspires to political office.

Hence it is debatable that Kasparov himself was the champion from about 1996, based on the expiry of a three-year cycle from 1993, as he had failed to defend against a legitimate challenger in a reasonable time frame. London 2000 was therefore just an exhibition match.

The process is meant to have two components; you beat your contemporaries and then you beat the reigning champion. Sure Kramnik did beat Kasparov, but arguably half a dozen others could have done the same had they been given the same leg up. Kramnik in fact bombed out of every selection process he entered, even when he was seeded into the final two.

Moreover the title Kramnik won was not world chess champion but Brain Games world chess champion. Does the Brain Games brand still exist? Even if it does we would have more faith in a title of Microsoft world champion, or Woolworths or Pizza Hut - some company which actually does something apart from manufacturing dubious titles.

Garvinator
12-08-2005, 10:43 AM
I agree Ian that many things over the last 10 or so years are questionable. That being said, I think now it is just best to get the saga over and done with and then get started with a new qualification matches asap. Get this tournament in the record books, get the match played with Kramnik and then start with the new interzonals, candidate matches etc.

EGOR
12-08-2005, 11:49 AM
Kasparov's 1995 defence was against a challenger selected by a process he himself organised, and his 2000 match was even less legitimate - he simply chose Kramnik. Kasparov has trouble with the concept of arms length - a troubling weakness for someone who aspires to political office.
The norm defore the death of Alekhin and the take over of the world championship by FIDE was that the world champion simply chose (for various reasons) who he was going to defend his tital against. It could be argued that Kasparov was simple returning to the pre-FIDE roots of the chess world championship. :D

Kevin Bonham
12-08-2005, 06:59 PM
This promises to be a very important tournament for the future of the WC concept. My view is that Kramnik is still world champion but that he needs to make efforts to play the winner of this event within, say, two years, in order to retain the right to that title. I consider that after FIDE refused to sanction K-S 1993 over money issues unrelated to the fairness of the match and despite both players' willingness to go ahead, FIDE forfeited the authority to manage the title and the title regressed to being the champion's property as it was pre-WWII, with the caveat that the champion can always lose the right to have their title considered legitimate by the chess world if they persistently dodge challengers.

Bill Gletsos
12-08-2005, 08:16 PM
Sure Kramnik did beat Kasparov, but arguably half a dozen others could have done the same had they been given the same leg up.Is that really true.
If I recall correctly at that time with the exception of Krammnik no player in the world had a plus score against Kasparov with many not even being close to him percentage wise.

pballard
12-08-2005, 09:53 PM
Ahh, a great flame topic. So I'd better preface all this by saying it is friendly talk, nothing personal...


The position is not unlike 1948 after Alekhin died. A six-player tournament was organised to select the World Champion (reduced to five by the time it started). From there the normal cycle resumed.

Kramnik's claims to be the World Champion are slightly weaker than Fischer's. The argument is the same - since he beat Kasparov nobody has beaten him.

The reason I say his claims are weaker than Fischer's is that there is a strong case that he should not be considered ever to have been the champion, as he beat a player whose title had run out. Kasparov defended his title against a universally accepted challenger in 1993 but after that he failed to participate in any legitimate process.

Kasparov's 1995 defence was against a challenger selected by a process he himself organised,


That's a bit unfair. He organised a fair dinkum interzonal and candidates, and the only leading player missing was Karpov. (It is regrettable, I admit, that he did not press harder for a reunification match wth Karpov after Karpov's 1996 win of the FIDE cycle).



and his 2000 match was even less legitimate - he simply chose Kramnik. Kasparov has trouble with the concept of arms length - a troubling weakness for someone who aspires to political office.


Again, give him a bit of credit. He tried to get Anand into the picture but Anand refused because he felt bound by the restrictions FIDE had placed on him. The match with Shirov fell through but at any rate, Shirov's personal record against Kasparov was and is abysmal. Kramnik on the other hand was the highest rated possible opponent apart from Anand (possibly higher than Anand too), and had a good personal record against Kasparov. In other words, though the candidates process was totally absent, give Kasparov credit that he chose the strongest possible opponent, and one of only two who had a snowball's chance in hell of winning.



Hence it is debatable that Kasparov himself was the champion from about 1996, based on the expiry of a three-year cycle from 1993, as he had failed to defend against a legitimate challenger in a reasonable time frame. London 2000 was therefore just an exhibition match.


Well the so-called "Classical" title (as Kasparov and Kramnik like to call it) has had 3 matches in the 12 years since 1993 - not quite one every 3 years, but not a lot worse. If FIDE were to organise a proper cycle, then Kramnik's title could quickly be redundant. But this double round robin is pretty Mickey Mouse - there are already 2 or 3 tournaments like that per year. (In fact the participants in San Luis are almost identical to this years' Linares). It's not much of an improvement on those silly best-of-2-match-with-rapid-playoff knockout tournaments. So I'd say it's a pretty poor way to pick a world champion. But to pick a challenger to play a match with Kramnik... well it's better than nothing.

So I hope the San Luis winner plays a match with Kramnik for a unified world championship. Historically, these world championship matches get reasonable press, and hopefully this would do the same ("The world's best tournament player takes on the man who beat Kasparov in their quest for ultimate title").

More importantly, I hope FIDE gets its act together and puts together some sort of decent process to set up future world championship matches. The irony is that lots of top level tournaments take place, so it's not as if the sponsorship isn't there. What is lacking is any decent organisation at the top.

--
Peter

Kevin Bonham
12-08-2005, 10:48 PM
The match with Shirov fell through but at any rate, Shirov's personal record against Kasparov was and is abysmal.

And also Kasparov was ready to play but Shirov held out for more money only to find himself a less marketable commodity. I love Shirov's play but I don't see why Kasparov cops so much of the blame (especially from Shirov) for that collapse.

Aaron Bellette
13-08-2005, 08:57 PM
And also Kasparov was ready to play but Shirov held out for more money only to find himself a less marketable commodity. I love Shirov's play but I don't see why Kasparov cops so much of the blame (especially from Shirov) for that collapse.

The more I read of and about GK, the more I like and respect him. He seems willing to admit mistakes or things he could have done better (e.g. the PCA) but he genuinely seems to care about the future of Chess. His columns in New in Chess are a great read! :D

AB

Ian_Rogers
15-08-2005, 06:48 PM
That's a bit unfair. He organised a fair dinkum interzonal and candidates, and the only leading player missing was Karpov. (It is regrettable, I admit, that he did not press harder for a reunification match wth Karpov after Karpov's 1996 win of the FIDE cycle).
Peter

That's not quite correct - the PCA Interzonal was very strong but as I recall was missing 5 of the ten highest rated players in the world at the time.

Ian

eclectic
15-08-2005, 10:48 PM
anyone looking forward to this circus coming downunder one ...

day?

week?

month?

year?

decade?

century?

millenium?


:hand:

eclectic

pballard
16-08-2005, 01:31 PM
That's not quite correct - the PCA Interzonal was very strong but as I recall was missing 5 of the ten highest rated players in the world at the time.


Point taken. I guess Karpov and Timman either didn't recognise the PCA title or were forbidden by FIDE from participating. Looking at the score table at http://www.mark-weeks.com , Ivanchuk and Gelfand are notable absentees who were leading players at the time, so perhaps they refused to recognise the PCA title too.

Which I guess further illustrates that, ever since 1993, opinions have been divided on Kasparov's (now Kramnik's) title. I'd really like to see a unification, and a real world title match. I don't see how San Luis helps this, unless somehow a match can be arranged between Kramnik and the San Luis winner.

--
Peter

Ian Rout
16-08-2005, 04:13 PM
I don't see how San Luis helps this, unless somehow a match can be arranged between Kramnik and the San Luis winner.

Again this starts with the presumption that Kramnik is the world champion. Unless he is putting together a string of results making him clearly the world number one then the "official" champion will have no need to play him.

On the other hand if Kramnik is doing that then he can maintain that he is already the world champion on the strength of his 2000 win and will have no need to play, so either way I don't see such a match coming off. If it does it will be because a sponsor puts up a sum of money, not because anybody feels a need for a unification match.

pballard
16-08-2005, 05:36 PM
Again this starts with the presumption that Kramnik is the world champion. Unless he is putting together a string of results making him clearly the world number one then the "official" champion will have no need to play him.

No, it starts with the presumption that a significant proportion of the chess public regard Kramnik as world champion, on the basis that he's beaten the previous titleholder* (I've no idea whether that proportion is greater than or less than 50%). And there is another significant proportion who believe that the world champion is whoever FIDE designates as world champion (currently Kasimdzhanov).

What I'm saying is that it is in the interests of the chess world that the two titles be united.

[* In the eyes of most people, the title legitimately passed from Fischer to Karpov because Fischer refused to play and in fact retired altogether]



On the other hand if Kramnik is doing that then he can maintain that he is already the world champion on the strength of his 2000 win and will have no need to play, so either way I don't see such a match coming off. If it does it will be because a sponsor puts up a sum of money, not because anybody feels a need for a unification match.

Actually Kramnik has made noises that he would play the San Luis winner, because he does at least recognise the need to defend his title at regular intervals. I think it is more likely that the SL winner will refuse to play, arguing "I've just won a top class tournament. Why should Kramnik get direct entry to a match with me?" (especially if Kramnik expects draw odds).

Garvinator
24-08-2005, 06:23 PM
Something we havent speculated on: do ppl think there would be any impact in anything :uhoh: if Judit Polgar was to win this event.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2597

In some ppl's eyes that would mean that we would have a female world champion. I have already given my views on the matter of this tournament.

Lucena
26-08-2005, 02:13 PM
Actually Kramnik has made noises that he would play the San Luis winner, because he does at least recognise the need to defend his title at regular intervals. I think it is more likely that the SL winner will refuse to play, arguing "I've just won a top class tournament. Why should Kramnik get direct entry to a match with me?" (especially if Kramnik expects draw odds).

I was under the impression the SL players were under contract, part of which stipulated that they are not allowed to play a reunification match. Has anyone else heard this?

sonyrobocup
27-08-2005, 07:23 PM
The contract cleary state that they are not allowed to play against Kramnik, otherwise everybody would just think this tournment is a semi-final of the world chess championship.

Kevin Bonham
27-08-2005, 07:36 PM
If that's the case then I regard this tournament as utterly illegitimate and no kind of qualifier for anything except dodgy politics, and I'm severely tempted to totally ignore it. :wall: :wall: :wall:

Does anyone have a source for detailed information about this contractual clause?

This whole thing is bizarre. It's just like the reunification after Alekhine died except that the world champion is still alive and FIDE can't be bothered dealing with him.

arosar
27-08-2005, 08:09 PM
I'm severely tempted to totally ignore it.

Well you ought to. The whole concept of a World Chess Champ is old fashioned and totally useless.

Anyway, just for the sake of an interesting tourney, I hope they apply the Corsican Rule.

AR

pballard
29-08-2005, 12:04 PM
I was under the impression the SL players were under contract, part of which stipulated that they are not allowed to play a reunification match. Has anyone else heard this?

FIDE VP Georgios Makropoulos said so. Quote below is from TWIC issue 552 ( http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/twic552.html#14 )



Q: What are Fide’s views on Kramnik’s proposal to conduct a match between him and the winner of San Luis?

A: I have clarified this a few times, and also spoken to the players about this. I will repeat: The tournament in Argentina is not a qualifying ‘’lap’’. It is the World Championship. Kramnik made a decision not to play in Argentina. We cannot ask our own World Champion to play against him.

Q: If the grandmaster, winning the tournament in Argentina, and Kramnik agree to play a match with each other?

A: This is not possible. All players taking part in Argentina have signed an undertaking, according to which they will not participate in any championship cycle outside FIDE. Before the World Cup, in which 128 grandmasters will play, all participants are also expected to sign a similar undertaking.

Q: These undertakings are legally enforceable?

A: Yes.


I think I remember reading that FIDE have backed away from this (attributing it to a translation error, I think), but I might have remembered wrong. I'll post that link if I find it.

--
Peter

Ian Rout
23-09-2005, 09:53 AM
As this event is getting closer I checked up with the official site - which is

http://www.wccsanluis.net/home.asp?lang=en

- to see what time the games will be on and by my calculation they start at 4am Australian time (Eastern). So I suppose that means that some of us will see the ends of some games, and some will see the openings.

four four two
23-09-2005, 11:57 AM
Arosar,the concept of a world champ may be old fashioned but its not useless,it only becomes useless when we reduce it to the level of a modern boxing world title. Ratings may look like the ideal way to judge who is the best,but considering Kasparov has retired it could take the others 2-3 years to break Kasparov's rating,thus we would have a "world" champion who doesnt PLAY.And that would be useless... :whistle:

AirPlatypus13
23-09-2005, 12:04 PM
so Blogario thinks being World Champ is outdated and useless. Is this experience speaking, perhaps???.

Garvinator
23-09-2005, 10:35 PM
So, who do you think will win.

[gg originally posted this as a new thread but I have thread merged it to add his poll to the original thread - mod]

Spiny Norman
24-09-2005, 08:55 AM
gg originally posted this as a new thread but I have thread merged it to add his poll to the original thread - [mod]
Perhaps we should make it a public poll so we can see who voted for who. My money is on Anand. Its time for the Euro stranglehold on the title to be broken. One billion screaming Indians can't be wrong, surely?

four four two
24-09-2005, 11:10 AM
The Bulgarian Whiz might still have enough juice in the tank for the Man from Madras. ;)

Bill Gletsos
25-09-2005, 12:46 PM
Krammnik can play the winner provided certain conditions are met according to the FIDE President.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2649

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2005, 04:26 PM
Krammnik can play the winner provided certain conditions are met according to the FIDE President.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2649

OK, I'm suddenly interested in this tournament again. :D

(Though I wonder what Kirsan's view might be on draw odds.)

Garvinator
25-09-2005, 05:22 PM
So who do we think needs to win this tournament to make a match with Kramnik happen ie sponsorship and all that?

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2005, 08:10 PM
I've split the discussion of who is/was world champion and the ramifications of this tournament for it to http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=3013 as it was getting into the history of the title more than being about this present event. It's not going to be easy to draw a clean line between these two topics but I suggest this one be now mainly used for discussion about who will win and the results, events etc surrounding the games.

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2005, 08:45 PM
So who do we think needs to win this tournament to make a match with Kramnik happen ie sponsorship and all that?

Probably Anand or Polgar would be the two most marketable for a unification match.

I think a win for Leko would be exceedingly amusing. Where would FIDE stand then? I'm barracking for him!

Garvinator
25-09-2005, 09:25 PM
Probably Anand or Polgar would be the two most marketable for a unification match.

I think a win for Leko would be exceedingly amusing. Where would FIDE stand then? I'm barracking for him!
it seems you keep cheering for the player that makes life as difficult for fide as possible ;)

I have voted for Polgar as in this field I think she has good chances. I would love to see fide's real reaction to a woman being the world chess champion. That is how fide have been marketing this tournament. That the winner will be world chess champion. Will they change their tune if Judit wins :hmm:

Kevin Bonham
25-09-2005, 11:16 PM
it seems you keep cheering for the player that makes life as difficult for fide as possible ;)

You might very well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment. :P

Ian Rout
26-09-2005, 11:12 AM
I would love to see fide's real reaction to a woman being the world chess champion. That is how fide have been marketing this tournament. That the winner will be world chess champion. Will they change their tune if Judit wins :hmm:

Why would they? Previously they have tried to pass off players ranked twentyish on the basis of two game knockouts with lightning tie-breaks so a top ten player winning a tournament of the best available players shouldn't cause any angst as champion.

I think it would be great if Polgar won but I don't really like her chances.

four four two
26-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Topalov Topalov Topalov,but then again maybe Kasimdzhanov. :hmm:

auriga
26-09-2005, 01:40 PM
my tip would be leko.
this is not like linares, dortmund, etc. so his results there are not too important.
he's a real student of the game and has had months to prepare.
he worked kramnik over in that last match so he can do the business when required.

four four two
26-09-2005, 03:32 PM
Yeah but his match with Kramnik was one on one,San Luis however is TOTALLY like Linares and Dortmund,only this time its a double round robin. ;)

bergil
26-09-2005, 03:46 PM
Yeah but his match with Kramnik was one on one,San Luis however is TOTALLY like Linares and Dortmund,only this time its a double round robin. ;)
It sound a good to start this way then when you You have a champ then play one on one to defend the title

pballard
26-09-2005, 05:03 PM
Yeah but his match with Kramnik was one on one,San Luis however is TOTALLY like Linares and Dortmund,only this time its a double round robin. ;)

Actually Linares was double round robin too, and had 5 of the San Luis competitors (Topalov, Anand, Leko, Adams, Kasimdzhanov).

IOW, this is just Linares again.

I predict Anand to win, but Topalov and Leko also are good chances. Any other winner would be a major surpise IMO.

Kevin Bonham
26-09-2005, 11:57 PM
From what I can tell from the official site (http://www.wccsanluis.net/home.asp?lang=en) the first game starts 4am AEST Friday morning. Have I got this right?

There are blocks of four rounds, rest day, four rounds, rest day, four rounds, rest day, two rounds, tiebreaks.

Bill Gletsos
27-09-2005, 12:08 AM
Round 1 starts on Wednesday 28th 3pm their time. Given I thought there was a 13hr time difference isnt that 4am Thursday 29th our time.

pull_my_finger
27-09-2005, 01:44 PM
Round 1 starts on Wednesday 28th 3pm their time. Given I thought there was a 13hr time difference isnt that 4am Thursday 29th our time.
Missed the vote :doh: but I think Topalov will win

four four two
27-09-2005, 03:48 PM
It seems all the betting money is going on Anand,well I guess all those Indian bookies are just being patriotic,as opposed to being sensible. :lol:

Rincewind
27-09-2005, 03:54 PM
It seems all the betting money is going on Anand,well I guess all those Indian bookies are just being patriotic,as opposed to being sensible. :lol:

Voting here seemed to follow suit. Anand favourite with outside chances to Leko and Topalov and some sentimental money on Polgar.

four four two
27-09-2005, 04:08 PM
Adams and Svidler wont win,but they could cause some upsets in key games.
The question I want to know is ,why no Ivanchuk and Bacrot? :hmm: They are ranked 5th and 9th in current world rankings.

Garvinator
27-09-2005, 06:11 PM
some sentimental money on Polgar. :hmm: :hmm:

Bill Gletsos
27-09-2005, 07:01 PM
Adams and Svidler wont win,but they could cause some upsets in key games.
The question I want to know is ,why no Ivanchuk and Bacrot? :hmm: They are ranked 5th and 9th in current world rankings.Back when FIDE first announced this the participants were:


The following players are invited to participate in the WCCT 2005:
1. World Champion Rustam Kasimdzhanov of Uzbekistan
2. GM Michael Adams of England (runner-up of the Tripoli World Championship)
3. GM Vladimir Kramnik of Russia
4. GM Peter Leko of Hungary

and the 4 top players of the FIDE rating list (average of July 2004 and January 2005):

5. GM Garry Kasparov of Russia
6. GM Vishy Anand of India
7. GM Veselin Topalov of Bulgaria
8. GM Alexander Morozevich of RussiaOnce Krammnik and Kasparov declined their invitations they were replaced by the next two players by rating on the average of the July 2004 and Jan 2005 lists.

These were Svidler and Polgar.

The top 10 on the July 2004 list were

1 Kasparov, Garry g RUS 2817
2 Anand, Viswanathan g IND 2782
3 Kramnik, Vladimir g RUS 2770
4 Morozevich, Alexander g RUS 2743
5 Leko, Peter g HUN 2741
6 Adams, Michael g ENG 2738
7 Topalov, Veselin g BUL 2737
8 Polgar, Judit g HUN 2728
9 Svidler, Peter g RUS 2727
10 Shirov, Alexei g ESP 2725
The top 10 on the January 2005 list were

1 Kasparov, Garry g RUS 2804
2 Anand, Viswanathan g IND 2786
3 Topalov, Veselin g BUL 2757
4 Kramnik, Vladimir g RUS 2754
5 Leko, Peter g HUN 2749
6 Morozevich, Alexander g RUS 2741
7 Adams, Michael g ENG 2741
8 Svidler, Peter g RUS 2735
9 Polgar, Judit g HUN 2728
10 Bacrot, Etienne g FRA 2715

Bill Gletsos
27-09-2005, 09:55 PM
Poll reopened until just prior to the start of the event.

Vlad
27-09-2005, 10:14 PM
Voting here seemed to follow suit. Anand favourite with outside chances to Leko and Topalov and some sentimental money on Polgar.

Anand, Topalov and Leko are clearly the favorites. I would think Moro and Svidler are wild cards. Either of two can win if they get their play. The last three have only very little chances.

Rincewind
27-09-2005, 10:35 PM
Anand, Topalov and Leko are clearly the favorites. I would think Moro and Svidler are wild cards. Either of two can win if they get their play. The last three have only very little chances.

I hope Svidler has a blinder. He's my favorite player of those entered. Still my head goes with Anand.

Kevin Bonham
28-09-2005, 01:37 AM
Round 1 starts on Wednesday 28th 3pm their time. Given I thought there was a 13hr time difference isnt that 4am Thursday 29th our time.

Looks like I was doing fine there until I decided it was Tuesday when it was actually Monday. :wall:

4-11am. Just when I'm normally most likely to sleep. Don't think I'll be watching too many of these games live.

If Topalov is not as good a chance as Anand then how has his rating come to be the same? Are there strong reasons for thinking he has not reached Anand's level yet? Haven't really been following the form of these two over time so just curious about this.

Garvinator
28-09-2005, 01:54 AM
Looks like I was doing fine there until I decided it was Tuesday when it was actually Monday. :wall:

4-11am. Just when I'm normally most likely to sleep. Don't think I'll be watching too many of these games live.

If Topalov is not as good a chance as Anand then how has his rating come to be the same? Are there strong reasons for thinking he has not reached Anand's level yet? Haven't really been following the form of these two over time so just curious about this.
Jeff Sonas has quite a bit to say about this matter:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2652

Garvinator
28-09-2005, 02:57 AM
Is anyone having problems with the official site for san luis. In navigating my way through, i click on the english page and after a couple of seconds i get sql server error and other messages.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Garvinator
28-09-2005, 03:17 PM
Ok time to start the predictions.

We already have a poll, so that isnt required.

Therefore, what do you think tonights results will be?

I just realised that I cant actually find who is playing who tonight. Does anyone know where this information is?

rob
28-09-2005, 03:19 PM
Round 1 starts on Wednesday 28th 3pm their time. Given I thought there was a 13hr time difference isnt that 4am Thursday 29th our time.

2.00am WA
3.30am NT & SA
4.00am ACT & NSW & Qld & Vic

Garvinator
28-09-2005, 04:12 PM
Ok time to start the predictions.

We already have a poll, so that isnt required.

Therefore, what do you think tonights results will be?

I just realised that I cant actually find who is playing who tonight. Does anyone know where this information is?
Managed to find the pairings for tonight:

Morozevich - Kasimdzhanov
Polgar - Anand
Leko - Topalov
Svidler - Adams

Predictions:

Mine are four draws.

bergil
28-09-2005, 04:33 PM
I'm hoping that there is a few more results than opening round of draws

Morozevich - Kasimdzhanov win for white
Polgar - Anand win for black
Leko - Topalov Draw
Svidler - Adams win for white

Rincewind
28-09-2005, 04:44 PM
I'm hoping that there is a few more results than opening round of draws

Morozevich - Kasimdzhanov win for white
Polgar - Anand win for black
Leko - Topalov Draw
Svidler - Adams win for white

I'll go with the first three but tip a draw for Svidler-Adams.

Garvinator
28-09-2005, 05:36 PM
I'm hoping that there is a few more results than opening round of draws
four draws is ok, it is the competitiveness of the draws that i am more concerned about.

Kevin Bonham
28-09-2005, 06:15 PM
1-0
Draw
Draw
Draw

pax
29-09-2005, 09:14 AM
$40 to watch the games on the official site: what an absolute joke.

Ian Rout
29-09-2005, 09:30 AM
$40 to watch the games on the official site: what an absolute joke.
Slightly more in $Aus.

I read somewhere that this includes GM commentary so for the serious follower in a suitable time zone it may be good value at less than $4 a round, but it will just drive everyone else to other sites where the moves are relayed free or an entire year's membership can be bought for a similar price. It would have been sensible to have a free uncommentated option.

Edit: Also the official site has no results up (or has hidden them well) while Chessbase seems to be reporting them soon after they happen, so it's not really looking like the place to follow the action.

arosar
29-09-2005, 09:55 AM
LOL! Look at Topa beat Leko. When I watched that game this morning, ICC was going crazy over the move 20. Nb6, apparently winning. Instead, Leko played 20. Nf5.

AR

Dozy
29-09-2005, 10:38 AM
Slightly more in $Aus.

I read somewhere that this includes GM commentary so for the serious follower in a suitable time zone it may be good value at less than $4 a round, but it will just drive everyone else to other sites where the moves are relayed free or an entire year's membership can be bought for a similar price. It would have been sensible to have a free uncommentated option.

Edit: Also the official site has no results up (or has hidden them well) while Chessbase seems to be reporting them soon after they happen, so it's not really looking like the place to follow the action.
I watched the games on World Chess Network. I'm a member but they give free guest membership for a fortnight if anybody wants to use it.

We'll be covering the games on the Rooty Hill web site (no commentary, you can do that yourselves) but the story, results and games are there now. http://www.rootyhillchess.org

auriga
29-09-2005, 11:37 AM
wow. that was a good game by anand.
(wish i could change my vote now :))

pballard
29-09-2005, 11:43 AM
Is there anywhere one can read (for free) commentary on the games? Not in real time, but after the event (like, now).

pax
29-09-2005, 12:53 PM
wow. that was a good game by anand.
(wish i could change my vote now :))

It's a great start for Anand. He often starts slow in the big events, so he looks pretty dangerous with a win first up (with black to boot!)

bergil
29-09-2005, 01:29 PM
It's a great start for Anand. He often starts slow in the big events, so he looks pretty dangerous with a win first up (with black to boot!)
Sure but he has almost a 3-1 win ratio and Pulgar and most of her wins against him have been in the Najdorf Sicilian.

Kevin Bonham
29-09-2005, 02:11 PM
Ouch. I got 1/4 right and nobody did better than 2.

Round 2

Veselin Topalov - Vishy Anand
Michael Adams - Judit Polgar
R. Kasimdzhanov - Peter Svidler
Peter Leko - A. Morozevich

I'll tip draw, 1-0, draw, draw. Close to 50% of games at this level being draws it's very tempting to just pick draws all the time.

Garvinator
29-09-2005, 02:14 PM
Close to 50% of games at this level being draws it's very tempting to just pick draws all the time.
I would be surprised if there were as many draws in this tournament as there normally are in a super gm round robin tournament. The reason being is that with 2 players already on one point, the other players now have to play catch up.

Remembering of course that second place in this tournament is nowhere.

bergil
29-09-2005, 02:16 PM
Ouch. I got 1/4 right and nobody did better than 2.

Round 2

Veselin Topalov - Vishy Anand
Michael Adams - Judit Polgar
R. Kasimdzhanov - Peter Svidler
Peter Leko - A. Morozevich

I'll tip draw, 1-0, draw, draw. Close to 50% of games at this level being draws it's very tempting to just pick draws all the time.
Very tempting but what kind of monkey wants to get piles sitting on that fence? :whistle:

Kevin Bonham
29-09-2005, 02:43 PM
I would be surprised if there were as many draws in this tournament as there normally are in a super gm round robin tournament. The reason being is that with 2 players already on one point, the other players now have to play catch up.

Yes, but I don't know whether they will bust a gut trying to catch up right away and risk being put seriously out of contention or try to sit back half a point to a point off the pace and see what happens to the leaders until say the midpoint of the event.

I imagine that if one of Anand or Topalov wins tonight that will change things quite a lot.

bergil
29-09-2005, 05:37 PM
Ouch. I got 1/4 right and nobody did better than 2.

Round 2

Veselin Topalov - Vishy Anand
Michael Adams - Judit Polgar
R. Kasimdzhanov - Peter Svidler
Peter Leko - A. Morozevich

I'll tip draw, 1-0, draw, draw. Close to 50% of games at this level being draws it's very tempting to just pick draws all the time.

Draw
Adams
Draw
Leko

Spiny Norman
29-09-2005, 06:21 PM
Draw
Draw
Draw
Leko

pax
29-09-2005, 06:22 PM
draw
draw
kasim
leko

Rincewind
29-09-2005, 06:51 PM
Draw
Adams
Draw
Leko

Ditto.

four four two
29-09-2005, 06:54 PM
I'll pick Brazil against Turkey,Mexico against Netherlands. ;)
Oh,theres another world championship going on in south america...well then i will pick Topalov to draw
Polgar to win
Kasimdzhanov to win
and Leko to draw again. ;)

Ian Rout
29-09-2005, 07:14 PM
I'll go for

Draw
Adams
Svidler
Leko

Gringo
29-09-2005, 09:11 PM
Topalov
Adams
Kasim
Moro

Garvinator
30-09-2005, 12:46 AM
Looks like I have created a little contest with my predictions first up.

After this round I might create and see who gets the most results right.

My predictions:

Veselin Topalov - Vishy Anand
Michael Adams - Judit Polgar
R. Kasimdzhanov - Peter Svidler
Peter Leko - A. Morozevich

all draws.

Actually i will have some fun, maybe ill get a sitting on the fence comment :P , but lets see what actually happens.

I am putting in my prediction of draws for all games in all fourteen rounds. Lets see how I do compared to the rest of the field. :hmm:

I dont really believe that every game will be drawn ;) but lets just see.

Bill Gletsos
30-09-2005, 01:03 AM
In which case a better solution would be for you to actually predict what you think the results will be whilst still measuring how well a person would have gone if they picked draws for all games in all rounds. :whistle:

Garvinator
30-09-2005, 01:05 AM
In which case a better solution would be for you to actually predict what you think the results will be whilst still measuring how well a person would have gone if they picked draws for all games in all rounds. :whistle:
i was wondering when someone would say that:P

Ok my real predictions-

Win for anand
win for polgar
win for kasim
draw

Kevin Bonham
30-09-2005, 01:58 AM
I am putting in my prediction of draws for all games in all fourteen rounds. Lets see how I do compared to the rest of the field. :hmm:

If my theory is right you should do very well.

I'm trying something slightly different, which is tipping draws unless I see strong reasons why someone might lose.

Perhaps we should track "all draws" as a dummy option and see how it goes.

Garvinator
30-09-2005, 02:04 AM
If my theory is right you should do very well.

I'm trying something slightly different, which is tipping draws unless I see strong reasons why someone might lose.

Perhaps we should track "all draws" as a dummy option and see how it goes.
Bill already suggested that ;)

Kevin Bonham
30-09-2005, 02:10 AM
I was thinking of us having something like a tipping ladder, with "all draws" sitting there in its rightful place, no doubt on top.

So what's the deal? Will there be a tipping ladder from round 3 on? Perhaps a default score of 1/4 for any round someone has not submitted a prediction for? I'd run it myself if I thought I'd have the time, but I'll probably be struggling to get predictions in for all rounds.

Garvinator
30-09-2005, 02:15 AM
have you read any of the previous posts Kevin :hmm:

Kevin Bonham
30-09-2005, 02:43 AM
have you read any of the previous posts Kevin :hmm:

Yes, in your previous post you said: "After this round I might create and see who gets the most results right." but left precisely what you might create largely up to the reader's imagination. It might, for instance, have been a poll thread (although on further reflection I realised you would need 81 options, so maybe not. :doh: )

Garvinator
30-09-2005, 02:51 AM
(although on further reflection I realised you would need 81 options, so maybe not. :doh: )
ohhh why not ;) :lol: :whistle:

Kevin Bonham
30-09-2005, 10:48 AM
In advance: any day I don't get my tip in on time my tip is four draws. :P

Ian Rout
30-09-2005, 11:46 AM
The official site was much more prompt with notifying the results today. However they still seem to be shy about reporting the moves even after the games have finished, round 1 games are either not up or at least not linked in an obvious way. Possibly they feel that audience has irretrievably flown, in which case they are probably right.

pax
30-09-2005, 12:12 PM
Boy, Vishy was pretty lucky to escape today. Quite the thrilling game. I suspect that white missed many wins and black missed many draws before it was finished.

pax
30-09-2005, 12:13 PM
In advance: any day I don't get my tip in on time my tip is four draws. :P

Reminds me of the AFL footy tipping, where picking the home team is nearly always a good strategy.

pax
30-09-2005, 02:57 PM
Rd 3:

A. Morozevich-Veselin Topalov
Peter Svidler-Peter Leko
Judit Polgar-R. Kasimdzhanov
Vishy Anand-Michael Adams

I'll plump for Topalov, draw, draw, draw. Maybe Vishy will be too tired to press for a win?

Spiny Norman
30-09-2005, 03:01 PM
Topalov
Draw
Polgar
Draw

Rincewind
30-09-2005, 03:05 PM
A. Morozevich-Veselin Topalov
Peter Svidler-Peter Leko
Judit Polgar-R. Kasimdzhanov
Vishy Anand-Michael Adams

I should go for more draws but anyway...

Topalov
Leko
Draw
Anand

Kevin Bonham
30-09-2005, 03:13 PM
Boy, Vishy was pretty lucky to escape today. Quite the thrilling game. I suspect that white missed many wins and black missed many draws before it was finished.

Same here. I had time for a quick look at move 64 and about an hour later sitting in a cafe I thought "Anand is probably still getting tortured now but I expect it will end in a draw". Sure enough that's what happened.

I sooooo wish Leko had seen that 20.Nb6 in round 1. No wonder AR says ICC was going crazy over it. Just look at this line: 20.Nb6! Qxb6? 21.Nxe6!! (putting queen en prise but it can't be taken because of 22.Nxg7#) Qxe6 22.Qa7!! putting queen en prise again and black is totally busted (the best defence Fritz can find gives Black two pieces for queen and two pawns). Of course Black would have to play 20...Rb8 but then White is lots better.

My tip for round 3: win to Anand, rest draws. I take pax's point about Anand being tired but I reckon it takes two epics to do that.

Ian Rout
30-09-2005, 03:53 PM
I'll go for draws in every game this time (and no doubt be a round too late).

Gringo
30-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Topalov
Draw
Kasim
Ananda Marga

Garvinator
30-09-2005, 11:45 PM
A. Morozevich-Veselin Topalov
Peter Svidler-Peter Leko
Judit Polgar-R. Kasimdzhanov
Vishy Anand-Michael Adams

win for topalov
draw
draw
draw

Trent Parker
30-09-2005, 11:58 PM
I'll enter in round three.....
Draw for Topalov Being black
Draw
Polgar will need a win to have much of a chance
Vishy Anand

Garvinator
01-10-2005, 02:04 AM
Thoughts on what should happen for ppl starting tipping now is that they are treated as though they tipped black in each game. The only other solution is that they start from zero.

bergil
01-10-2005, 07:59 AM
I'll go for draws in every game this time (and no doubt be a round too late).
Correct :doh:

Rincewind
01-10-2005, 08:35 AM
Correct :doh:

:doh: :doh: :doh: :thumbsup:

:(

Trent Parker
01-10-2005, 09:12 AM
Thoughts on what should happen for ppl starting tipping now is that they are treated as though they tipped black in each game. The only other solution is that they start from zero.

i'll start on zero ..... dunno if i'll have a go on each round.....

bergil
01-10-2005, 09:55 AM
i'll start on zero ..... dunno if i'll have a go on each round.....
Why not? :snooty:

arosar
01-10-2005, 01:26 PM
R4:

V. Topalov - M. Adams, 1-0
R. Kasimdzhanov - V. Anand, 0-1
P. Leko - J. Polgar, .5-.5
A. Morozevich - P. Svidler, .5-.5

AR

bergil
01-10-2005, 01:33 PM
V. Topalov - M. Adams, 1-0
R. Kasimdzhanov - V. Anand, 0-1
P. Leko - J. Polgar, .1-0
A. Morozevich - P. Svidler, .5-.5

Gringo
01-10-2005, 01:41 PM
Topa
Anand
Leko
Moro

Ian Rout
01-10-2005, 02:08 PM
Anand + three draws.

Kevin Bonham
01-10-2005, 03:27 PM
Round 3:

Leko. :wall: :wall: :wall: You are disappointing me, sir. Even I can see that 24...Rd8 is rubbish, not like it was such a flash position anwyay.

Moro-Topalov: 25.cxb5 Nb4! looks like where it all starts to go bad for White to me.

Polgar-Kasimdzhanov: looks like a really nice attacking game by white.

Anand-Adams: was totally over my head and throw away the computer for this one. Need to see some specialised analysis of this.

Round 4 tips:

Topalov, Draw, Draw, Draw.

Garvinator
01-10-2005, 03:43 PM
Round 3:

Leko. :wall: :wall: :wall: You are disappointing me, sir.
is this because you want Leko to win the tourney so fide faces Kramnik v Leko ;)

pballard
01-10-2005, 04:28 PM
Round 3:
Polgar-Kasimdzhanov: looks like a really nice attacking game by white.


Speaking of incomprensible moves, why o why did Judith play 22 Nb5 instead of simply taking the queen with 22 Rxe7 ? (Though she won anyway).

Garvinator
01-10-2005, 05:19 PM
Speaking of incomprensible moves, why o why did Judith play 22 Nb5 instead of simply taking the queen with 22 Rxe7 ? (Though she won anyway).
Fritz says after Nb5 that Be5 saves the day for black. Rxe8 would have to be stronger than Rxe7 wouldnt it?

Bill Gletsos
01-10-2005, 06:06 PM
Polgar-Kasimdzhanov: looks like a really nice attacking game by white.She should most likely lose after 22. Nb5 as Be5 is winning for black. It would be interesting to know if kasim just missed this or believed it was inferior to what he played.

Anand-Adams: was totally over my head and throw away the computer for this one. Need to see some specialised analysis of this.Adams 27. Ned3 is losing, however I'm not sure if it is salvagable at this point. I dont think it is.

Kevin Bonham
01-10-2005, 06:31 PM
She should most likely lose after 22. Nb5 as Be5 is winning for black. It would be interesting to know if kasim just missed this or believed it was inferior to what he played.

That is odd that she played 22.Nb5 instead of 22.Rxe8 and then Rustam missed ...Be5. When I first ran the game quickly through Fritz it saw ...Be5 but often I find that in attacking positions if you enter in some moves and make it look further the assessment turns around. Not this time, ...Be5 is either winning or at least very advantageous as far as I can tell.

I suspect that both sides saw a false win somewhere in the analysis. Some of the lines from that position are pretty wild. I take it back: a mostly nice attacking game.

pballard
01-10-2005, 06:39 PM
Fritz says after Nb5 that Be5 saves the day for black. Rxe8 would have to be stronger than Rxe7 wouldnt it?

Err, No. Why give up white's Re8 for black's Ne8? (Maybe Fritz can see a clear win from there, but I can't, at least not immediately).

Actually, even after 22 Rxe7 material is still only roughly equal, and I can't see a clear way to a win. So I'm being a bit harsh.

Kevin Bonham
01-10-2005, 06:45 PM
Adams 27. Ned3 is losing, however I'm not sure if it is salvagable at this point. I dont think it is.

I reckon it was lost the previous move as well. I can't find a win for Anand against 26...Bxe4 yet, only draws.

Kevin Bonham
01-10-2005, 06:51 PM
Err, No. Why give up white's Re8 for black's Ne8? (Maybe Fritz can see a clear win from there, but I can't, at least not immediately).

22.Rxe8 Kxe8 (...Qxe8 23.Qd6+ wins Q) 23.Rxe7+ Kxe7 24.Nd5+ and picks up the rook next move by discovered check if Black goes to the e-file, fork if Black goes to e8, or threat of Qd8 mate (25.Nb6) if Black goes to f8. White comes out with queen and a pawn or two for rook and piece.

Bill Gletsos
01-10-2005, 07:22 PM
Err, No. Why give up white's Re8 for black's Ne8? (Maybe Fritz can see a clear win from there, but I can't, at least not immediately).Rxe8 may be superior from a computer perspective but from a human view Rxe7 may well be easier to win.

After 22. Rxe8+ Kxe8 (this is forced otherwise Qd6+ is killing) 23. Rxe7+ Kxe7 24. Nd5+ Kf8 25. Nb6 (threat Qd8 mate) Bf6 26. Nxa8 Bxf5 27. Qxb4+ Kg7 28. Nc7


Actually, even after 22 Rxe7 material is still only roughly equal, and I can't see a clear way to a win. So I'm being a bit harsh.Actually I disagree.

After 22. Rxe7+ Kxe7 23. Ne4 Be5 24. f4 Rxa2 25. Kb1 Rxb2+ 26. Kc1 Bxf5 27. fxe5 and now best is Rxc2+ 28. Kxc2 Bxe4+ 29. Kb3 Bc6 30. Rd6! and white is clearly winning.

pballard
01-10-2005, 08:26 PM
22.Rxe8 Kxe8 (...Qxe8 23.Qd6+ wins Q) 23.Rxe7+ Kxe7 24.Nd5+ and picks up the rook next move by discovered check if Black goes to the e-file, fork if Black goes to e8, or threat of Qd8 mate (25.Nb6) if Black goes to f8. White comes out with queen and a pawn or two for rook and piece.

Fair enough. Usually I'm cynical about amateurs like us using Fritz to pronounce that GMs have blundered, but I think a GM should have seen that (if she had enough time).

(And I've seen Bill's reply, but I now think Rxe7 is less clear because those moves aren't all forced).

Bill Gletsos
01-10-2005, 08:30 PM
(And I've seen Bill's reply, but I now think Rxe7 is less clear because those moves aren't all forced).True the line isnt forced but other moves for black are all worse.

pax
01-10-2005, 10:45 PM
draw
draw
Leko
Svidler

Garvinator
02-10-2005, 03:54 AM
Veselin Topalov - Michael Adams
R. Kasimdzhanov - Vishy Anand
Peter Leko - Judit Polgar
A. Morozevich - Peter Svidler

draw
draw
polgar
draw

Trent Parker
02-10-2005, 04:40 AM
Haven't seen any games......

Topalov
Anand will crush will crush will crush Kasim
Leko
Morozevic

Gringo
02-10-2005, 04:48 AM
maybe Trently should be tested for Chess Steroids....

Trent Parker
02-10-2005, 04:57 AM
Bloody lousy ICC and Bloody Lousy ChessFM.... Used to be able to at least listen to the games.... :(

Trent Parker
02-10-2005, 04:58 AM
Maybe i should be tested for caffeine.....

Dozy
02-10-2005, 05:21 AM
Bloody lousy ICC and Bloody Lousy ChessFM.... Used to be able to at least listen to the games.... :(
i'm getting good audio from world chess network (http://www.worldchessnetwork.com)

If you're not a member they allow 2 week guest memberships

Bergil signed up for the event. He said he can't get the audio there but mine's been fine...

WhiteElephant
02-10-2005, 09:16 AM
Woohoo Kasim sticks it to Anand and Topalov beats Adams.

Now if only Moro beats Svidler (which unfortunately is not looking likely) then my 3 favourite players will be 3-0 this round.

WhiteElephant
02-10-2005, 09:28 AM
Grrr... Svidler beats Moro...

Dozy
02-10-2005, 09:53 AM
I'm putting the games up on the Rooty Hill site each day after play. If anybody wants to play through them any time you'll find them there.

http://www.rootyhillchess.org

pax
02-10-2005, 10:17 AM
Crikey, what a bloodbath. Who went for all draws again?

You've got to watch yourself in those Q+R endgames (as Anand and Moro will attest).

arosar
02-10-2005, 10:33 AM
Moro's Rxa6 was bad.

R5.

Anand – Leko, .5-.5
Polgar – Morozevich, 0-1
Svidler – Topalov, .5-.5
Adams – Kasimdzhanov, 1-0

AR

bergil
02-10-2005, 11:32 AM
1 Veselin Topalov 3.5
2 Peter Svidler 3
3 Vishwanathan Anand 2.5
4 Rustam Kasimdzhanov 2
5 Judit Polgar 1.5
Peter Leko 1.5
6 Alexander Morozevich 1
Michael Adams 1

It is still very early and I'm not getting off Topalov (now that's a burden you wouldn't wish on anyone) :uhoh: but could there be another Russian champion? :hmm:

pax
02-10-2005, 03:19 PM
It certainly seems to be a three horse race now, with Topalov a length in front.


1 Veselin Topalov 3.5
2 Peter Svidler 3
3 Vishwanathan Anand 2.5
4 Rustam Kasimdzhanov 2
5 Judit Polgar 1.5
Peter Leko 1.5
6 Alexander Morozevich 1
Michael Adams 1

It is still very early and I'm not getting off Topalov (now that's a burden you wouldn't wish on anyone) :uhoh: but could there be another Russian champion? :hmm:

Kevin Bonham
02-10-2005, 04:54 PM
(Anand-Adams)


I reckon it was lost the previous move as well. I can't find a win for Anand against 26...Bxe4 yet, only draws.

26...Bxe4 27.Ng5 Nxe1 28.Bxe4 wins according to Shipov and after a bit of coaxing Fritz agrees. It seems Anand may have been winning from 23.Qd2 (TN) onwards and it was all home-cooked nastiness - which would be rather embarrassing for Adams because he was lost before he played a new move.

Frank Walker
02-10-2005, 05:23 PM
A copy of the September 30 Chess Today newspaper.

http://www.chesstoday.net/issues/CT-1788.pdf

Kevin Bonham
02-10-2005, 05:33 PM
Garvin said he was going to put a table up after round 3 but hasn't done so yet, so I'll hijack it. :owned: I've gone with the idea that anyone not tipping in a given round gets black on every board. I've listed those who have tipped more rounds on each score ahead of those who've leaned on the default. Let me know if I missed any posted tips.

A d after the tip means default selection. For AR I've used the tips on his blog

Frosty 8: 2d 3 2 1d
Rincewind 7: 2 2 2 1d
pax 7: 2d 2 1 2
alldraws 6: 2 4 0 0
KB 6: 1 3 1 1
bergil 6: 1 2 1d 2
AR 6: 2d 1 2 1
Gringo 6: 2d 0 2 2
TCN 6: 2d 0d 2 2
442 6: 2d 2 1d 1d
GG 4: 2 1 1 0
default 4: 2d 0d 1d 1d
Ian Rout 3: 2d 1 0 0

New players can enter on the default score up to the start of round 7. Anyone not tipping for four consecutive rounds is deemed to have lost interest. Tips more than a round in advance are allowed.

My round 5 tips are:

Anand
Draw
Draw
Adams

[edits to table as corrections appear]

four four two
02-10-2005, 05:52 PM
My tips for round 5 are Anand,Morozevich,draw and Adams. ;)

bergil
02-10-2005, 05:58 PM
Draw
Morozevich
Draw
Draw

Gringo
02-10-2005, 09:29 PM
Rd 5
Anand
Moro
Topalov
Draw

pax
02-10-2005, 10:13 PM
What, am I invisible or something?

For the record:

pax 7: 2d 2 1 2

Rd 5: draw, Moro, Topalov, draw.

Interesting that nobody has better than 50%. Also interesting that all-draws is the only one to have a 4/4 round.


Garvin said he was going to put a table up after round 3 but hasn't done so yet, so I'll hijack it. :owned: I've gone with the idea that anyone not tipping in a given round gets black on every board. I've listed those who have tipped more rounds on each score ahead of those who've leaned on the default. Let me know if I missed any posted tips.

Kevin Bonham
02-10-2005, 10:30 PM
What, am I invisible or something?

:oops:

I had you with the correct score on my magic piece of paper but lost you while I was translating this to the screen. Sorry. Fixed now.

Re your observation, I'm not expecting anybody to finish over 50% either. It's quite tough getting 1/2 when picking from three seriously likely outcomes. So far we have had 6:6:4 (white:draw:black) and typical results at this level would probably be something like 33:46:21.

Garvinator
03-10-2005, 03:30 PM
Rd 5:
Svidler-Topalov,
Polgar-Morozevich,
Anand-Leko,
Adams-Kasimdzhanov

draw
polgar
anand
kasim

Ian Rout
03-10-2005, 07:09 PM
Draw
Morozevich
Draw
Adams

jase
03-10-2005, 10:19 PM
Although I am acquaintanced with Peter Svidler, I must confess that Melbourne IM Guy West converted me to the wonderful play of Veselin Topolov at the 2000 Olympiad, and it's awesome to see this guy leading the tournament.

I was rooming with Guy and he showed me a couple of Topolov's games; Guy was in awe of his play even then, and expressed the hope that someone could become World Champion playing like this.

Still, Svid is a great guy who has been keen for a while to visit Australia; would be terrific to have the World Champ here!

I see a few draws in round 5 after the day off; Adams to have a huge go and I'll punt him to be the only winner tonight.

bergil
04-10-2005, 08:02 AM
Our two leaders didn't submit their tips, do they score zero?

Rincewind
04-10-2005, 09:01 AM
Our two leaders didn't submit their tips, do they score zero?

I've lost interest. Was I leading?

bergil
04-10-2005, 09:18 AM
I've lost interest. Was I leading?
Coming second

Rincewind
04-10-2005, 09:22 AM
Coming second

Go me!

pax
04-10-2005, 09:52 AM
Our two leaders didn't submit their tips, do they score zero?

They score one. Default is all black.

pax
04-10-2005, 09:59 AM
Can anybody stop him?

Topalov is HUGE right now. Performance rating around 3100, a full 1.5 points clear of next best. He has already gained enough rating points to bust through 2800 (currently 2805), and if he continues in this vein will overtake Kasparov by the time the tournament is out.

I just hope he doesn't go conservative and draw his way to the title. Mind you, I don't think it's in his character to do that.

It would be a fitting transition - the new champion is the player to have defeated Kasparov in his last competitive game, and overtakes Kasparov in the rating list with a devastating victory over all of the pretenders. All that remains is for him to carve up that *other* pretender Kramnik in a match.

pax
04-10-2005, 10:10 AM
Rd6 :
Judit Polgar-Veselin Topalov
Vishy Anand-Peter Svidler
Michael Adams-A. Morozevich
R. Kasimdzhanov-Peter Leko

draw, anand, draw, draw

Gringo
04-10-2005, 11:53 AM
Rd 6

Topalov
Anand
Moro
Draw

Ian Rout
04-10-2005, 11:57 AM
Adams and three draws.

Garvinator
04-10-2005, 12:02 PM
all draws for me.

Kevin Bonham
04-10-2005, 12:21 PM
pax 10: 2d 2 1 2 3
alldraws 9: 2 4 0 0 3
Frosty 9: 2d 3 2 1d 1d
Gringo 8: 2d 0 2 2 2
Rincewind 8: 2 2 2 1d 1d
KB 7: 1 3 1 1 1
bergil 7: 1 2 1d 2 1
AR 7: 2d 1 2 1 1
TCN 7: 2d 0d 2 2 1d
442 6: 2d 2 1d 1d 0
default 5: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d
GG 4: 2 1 1 0 0
Ian Rout 4: 2d 1 0 0 1

My tips for round 6: Topalov, draw, draw, draw.

How could Judit let Moro get away, she had such a crushing-looking position. And against that opening that I love smashing too. :rolleyes:

four four two
04-10-2005, 12:39 PM
Well the moral of the story seems to be just pick Topalov to win each round,so my round 6 picks are:Topalov,draw,Adams,and Kasimdzhanov.

arosar
04-10-2005, 12:42 PM
R6:

Kasimdzhanov – Leko, 1-0
Adams – Morozevich, .5-.5
Anand – Svidler, 1-0
Polgar – Topalov, .5-.5

AR

pax
04-10-2005, 01:23 PM
Well the moral of the story seems to be just pick Topalov to win each round,so my round 6 picks are:Topalov,draw,Adams,and Kasimdzhanov.

Indeed: the 'default' option of Topalov and three draws scores 12 points so far!

four four two
04-10-2005, 01:59 PM
"Topalov and the Draw Masters" sounds like an eastern euro punkska band. ;)

1min_grandmaster
04-10-2005, 02:14 PM
It would be wonderful for the chess world if Topalov were to become the official World Champion given the way in which he plays chess, i.e. plays fighting chess, even with black. Perhaps then players will actually try to play chess instead of taking draws after a few moves or playing boring lines that just lead to dull drawish positions!

If he could continue his current devestating form and win this tournament by miles, as well as convincingly win future tournaments, that would really make people take notice. It may well cause a whole new revolution in chess. Interest in the game would go up, chess fans would finally be able to agree on who is the real world champion, and generally, playing style will be much more exciting for spectators as well as the players themselves!

Assuming Topalov wins this tournament easily, I hope he plays a match for with Kramnik. Not that it is needed to decide who is the 'real' champion. I would hope that Kramnik's boring drawing game gets completely demolished if the game were to go ahead. Perhaps Kramnik would not end up playing and just try to find some other excuses (maybe some new illnesses will conveniently come up, or perhaps he will say he still needs time to recover from his match with Leko).

WhiteElephant
04-10-2005, 02:32 PM
When kids ask me who the World Chess Champion is, I must admit I often feel embarrassed. Kids don't have any conception of the politics and bickering that goes on at the top of the chess world. They just want to know wo is the best so that they have a hero to admire and aspire to. Up until Kasparov's retirement, I would always tell kids that he was World Champion. He was a great role model - fighting, exciting player, didn't let anyone intimidate him. Now that Kasparov has retired, I really hope that Topalov wins this tournament - another strong, exciting player, someone who can be looked up to. I'd hate to face the kids' questions if one of the drawmasters won.

Kevin Bonham
04-10-2005, 05:04 PM
Topalov really is running away with it at the moment - what concerns me in terms of it being a contest is not as much the size of his lead as the lack of anyone who looks like matching it with him even if he falters.

I doubt he'll be satisfied with a 1.5 point lead and I'm expecting him to try to increase it and dominate before thinking about settling down.

bergil
04-10-2005, 08:02 PM
pax 10: 2d 2 1 2 3
alldraws 9: 2 4 0 0 3
Frosty 9: 2d 3 2 1d 1d
Gringo 8: 2d 0 2 2 2
Rincewind 8: 2 2 2 1d 1d
KB 7: 1 3 1 1 1
bergil 7: 1 2 1d 2 1
AR 7: 2d 1 2 1 1
TCN 7: 2d 0d 2 2 1d
442 6: 2d 2 1d 1d 0
default 5: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d
GG 4: 2 1 1 0 0
Ian Rout 4: 2d 1 0 0 1

My tips for round 6: Topalov, draw, draw, draw.

How could Judit let Moro get away, she had such a crushing-looking position. And against that opening that I love smashing too. :rolleyes:
Sir I wish to protest your scoring, my picks last round were:
Draw
Morozevich
Draw
Draw

Thats 2 out of 4 is it not?

Standings after round 4
Frosty 8: 2d 3 2 1d
Rincewind 7: 2 2 2 1d
pax 7: 2d 2 1 2
alldraws 6: 2 4 0 0
KB 6: 1 3 1 1
bergil 6: 1 2 1d 2
AR 6: 2d 1 2 1
Gringo 6: 2d 0 2 2
TCN 6: 2d 0d 2 2
442 6: 2d 2 1d 1d
GG 4: 2 1 1 0
default 4: 2d 0d 1d 1d
Ian Rout 3: 2d 1 0 0

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 12:25 AM
Ok well seenig as I'm still doing OK I guess I'd better get off my proverbial and put some tips in.

Judit Polgar 0-1 Veselin Topalov
Vishy Anand 1-0 Peter Svidler
Michael Adams ½-½ A. Morozevich
R. Kasimdzhanov ½-½ Peter Leko

jase
05-10-2005, 12:52 AM
I agree that Topolov's form warrants another win from him, but respect for Judit, I predict all draws.

bergil
05-10-2005, 12:58 AM
Judit Polgar 0-1 Veselin Topalov
Vishy Anand ½-½ Peter Svidler
Michael Adams ½-½ A. Morozevich
R. Kasimdzhanov 0-1 Peter Leko

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 08:24 AM
Regarding the tipping contest I was thinking for future events we might want to change the points scored for tipping each result. I've had a look at all the games I have from TWIC in a database (567,285 games) and the distribution of results are as follows,

1-0 37.8%
½-½ 32.9%
0-1 29.2%

So a simple system using that as the baseline expected distribution of results would be:

7 points for correctly predicting a 1-0,
8 points for correctly predicting a ½-½, and
9 points for correctly predicting a 0-1.

Perhaps in some events less wins and more draws are expected but something to think about for the future.

pax
05-10-2005, 09:01 AM
But the distribution for super GM games is different again.

And shouldn't I get more points for tipping Adams over Anand correctly than vice versa?

Nah, keep it simple - one point per correct result.


Regarding the tipping contest I was thinking for future events we might want to change the points scored for tipping each result. I've had a look at all the games I have from TWIC in a database (567,285 games) and the distribution of results are as follows,

1-0 37.8%
½-½ 32.9%
0-1 29.2%

So a simple system using that as the baseline expected distribution of results would be:

7 points for correctly predicting a 1-0,
8 points for correctly predicting a ½-½, and
9 points for correctly predicting a 0-1.

Perhaps in some events less wins and more draws are expected but something to think about for the future.

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 09:19 AM
But the distribution for super GM games is different again.

That's is true and much more so than I expected. Looking at games where both players are >2700 you get only 2098 games with the following distribution

1-0 27.0%
½-½ 57.5% :eek:
0-1 15.4%

So perhaps for Super GM events we should use:

15 points for correctly predicting a 1-0,
7 points for correctly predicting a ½-½, and
26 points for correctly predicting a 0-1.

As the distribution is even more skewed there is a stronger case for a more balanced scoring.


NB I'm only talking about future events. I too think we should stick to the current method for the tournament in progress.

pax
05-10-2005, 09:52 AM
Sheesh, I should have taken my own advice: Topalov and thee draws.

One more win and Topalov will be in front of Kasparov on the rating list.

The scariest part? Topalov has 5 whites out of 8 games remaining and hasn't played the lowest seed yet...

bergil
05-10-2005, 10:13 AM
Sheesh, I should have taken my own advice: Topalov and thee draws.

One more win and Topalov will be in front of Kasparov on the rating list.

The scariest part? Topalov has 5 whites out of 8 games remaining and hasn't played the lowest seed yet...
He's on fire, if he goes on a winning the way he is nobody will think twice about who the undisputed world champion is.

pax
05-10-2005, 10:18 AM
I estimate that Topalov needs +7 (10.5/14) to match Kasparov's FIDE rating, +8 (11/14) to eclipse it, and +9 (11.5/14) to eclipse Karpov's 1994 Linares performance. My bet at this stage is for +8.

pax
05-10-2005, 10:26 AM
Rd 7:
Veselin Topalov-R. Kasimdzhanov
Peter Leko-Michael Adams
A. Morozevich-Vishy Anand
Peter Svidler-Judit Polgar

Hmm. Tricky.

I eschew the Topalov bandwagon and predict:

draw, draw, draw, Svidler

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 10:31 AM
Rd 7:
Veselin Topalov 1-0 R. Kasimdzhanov
Peter Leko ½-½ Michael Adams
A. Morozevich ½-½ Vishy Anand
Peter Svidler 1-0 Judit Polgar

bergil
05-10-2005, 10:50 AM
I estimate that Topalov needs +7 (10.5/14) to match Kasparov's FIDE rating, +8 (11/14) to eclipse it, and +9 (11.5/14) to eclipse Karpov's 1994 Linares performance. My bet at this stage is for +8.
What are the RD's on that? :P

Kevin Bonham
05-10-2005, 12:26 PM
Error from previous round corrected. I'm doing these very quickly so expect a few mistakes to creep in.

alldraws 12: 2 4 0 0 3 3
pax 12: 2d 2 1 2 3 2
KB 11: 1 3 1 1 1 4
bergil 11: 1 2 1d 2 1 2 3
Rincewind 11: 2 2 2 1d 1d 3
Gringo 10: 2d 0 2 2 2 2
Frosty 10: 2d 3 2 1d 1d 1d
AR 8: 2d 1 2 1 1 1
442 8: 2d 2 1d 1d 0 2
TCN 8: 2d 0d 2 2 1d 1d
jase 8: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 3
GG 7: 2 1 1 0 0 3
Ian Rout 6: 2d 1 0 0 1 2
default 6: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d

Re the scoring: this event is almost unprecedented in terms of the motivation involved for this format, so deciding whether to assume games will be drawn as often as normal at this level or try to pick more winners is part of the challenge. I think one point per correct result is fine.

Topalov wins with the Berlin. :rolleyes: How does this man do it? Has he been drug tested yet?

Topalov
Draw
Draw
Svidler

arosar
05-10-2005, 12:41 PM
Svidler – Polgar, 1-0
Morozevich – Anand, 0-1
Leko – Adams, .5-.5
Topalov – Kasimdzhanov, .5-.5

AR

Gringo
05-10-2005, 01:13 PM
Rd 7

His Eminence, Topalov
Leko
Moro
Svidler on the Roof.

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 01:57 PM
Re the scoring: this event is almost unprecedented in terms of the motivation involved for this format, so deciding whether to assume games will be drawn as often as normal at this level or try to pick more winners is part of the challenge. I think one point per correct result is fine.

I'll bow to popular opinion. But in my defence can I cite occupational hazard?

WhiteElephant
05-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Kasim has many tricks and a sexy wife, Topalov is going to have trouble with him.

Ian Rout
05-10-2005, 02:23 PM
Now that I'm on a roll:

Topalov, Anand, Svidler and a draw.

Dozy
05-10-2005, 02:41 PM
Rd 7

His Eminence, Topalov
Leko
Moro
Svidler on the Roof.
Hey, Greengo, if you check the Rooty Hill report you'll find we already covered what would happen if you put Svidler on the Roof.

...He'd Topalov!

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 03:41 PM
Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade but... isn't Svidler pronounced with a long 'i' vowel sound? The point being when said like this it doesn't rhyme with fiddler and the whole things becomes pear-shaped.

Anyone know how Svidler says his surname?

Gringo
05-10-2005, 03:58 PM
Thanks for the info on the "never never news", Dozsa.

Dozy
05-10-2005, 04:31 PM
Thanks for the info on the "never never news", Dozsa.Hey,cut it out Gringo! I never failed to pay a restaurant bill in my life! (I never played chess as good as him, either...)

Ian Rout
05-10-2005, 04:31 PM
Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade but... isn't Svidler pronounced with a long 'i' vowel sound? The point being when said like this it doesn't rhyme with fiddler and the whole things becomes pear-shaped.

Anyone know how Svidler says his surname?
I heard it pronounced with a short "i" recently but I can't remember where, it might have been on CBM107.

arosar
05-10-2005, 04:41 PM
I must admit, the video presentation on 107 is better than the one they had on 106. With 106 it was worse than a friggin porno! Good action but terrible sound. I mean, what's the point?

AR

Dozy
05-10-2005, 04:42 PM
Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade but... isn't Svidler pronounced with a long 'i' vowel sound? The point being when said like this it doesn't rhyme with fiddler and the whole things becomes pear-shaped.

Anyone know how Svidler says his surname?It's always a problem pronouncing words from another language, but sometimes mis-pronunciation will get the idea across in your own language.

"Don't touch my ashtray" is great if a Japanese thanks you for something, and you can't pronounce "do itashimashite..."

And I once defined "quirinale" (one of the seven hills of Rome) as a urinal for gays . . . then found out it's pronounced "kier-in-ar-lay". It spoiled the whole idea.

I always turn the sound up when watching Inspector Rex and try to pick up the right way to pronounce German. You can be sure I'll do the same thing as soon as SBS airs a show about a Russian wolfhound called Inspector Boris.

Until then, I gotta admit my failings and thank you for pointing them out.

Now, can somebody tell me the way to pronounce Kasparov? Where's the stressed syllable? 'Kas' or 'par'?

four four two
05-10-2005, 05:12 PM
In relation to the pronunciation of Kasparov, it depends if you want to make him sound like the friendly ghost or a soviet military weapon.Most people in the west go with the friendly ghost version,the americans being the general exception.They prefer him to sound like a soviet automatic rifle. ;)

My picks for round 7 are Topalov,Svidler,Anand,draw.

bergil
05-10-2005, 06:20 PM
I must admit, the video presentation on 107 is better than the one they had on 106. With 106 it was worse than a friggin porno! Good action but terrible sound. I mean, what's the point?

AR
Yeah and they all finish the same way! :rolleyes:

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Now, can somebody tell me the way to pronounce Kasparov? Where's the stressed syllable? 'Kas' or 'par'?

My understanding is that it is as per the assault rifle - stressing the penultimate and not the antepenultimate syllable. (Just love using antepenultimate in a sentence.) :)

Ian Rout
05-10-2005, 07:10 PM
Back to Svidler, I just got the latest BCM and it has a photo of him chatting with Ian Rogers so Ian can probably give a definitive answer.

ursogr8
05-10-2005, 08:26 PM
My understanding is that it is as per the assault rifle - stressing the penultimate and not the antepenultimate syllable. (Just love using antepenultimate in a sentence.) :)

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Baz :eek: :eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I had not heard of 'antepenultimate' previously. Had to check it out (surreptitiously) in my Macquarie Concise (2nd ed.).
Sure enough...it is there...how could I doubt you.

Seems a bit constructive like some of those German words you see occasionally. But I did like the chessic part at the end.

Have you used it often?

regards
starter

Denis_Jessop
05-10-2005, 09:02 PM
It's always a problem pronouncing words from another language, but sometimes mis-pronunciation will get the idea across in your own language.
<SNIP>
Now, can somebody tell me the way to pronounce Kasparov? Where's the stressed syllable? 'Kas' or 'par'?

My understanding is that in Russian all syllables are equally stressed.

As for Svidler, I can't imagine the correct pronunciation being a short "i" but there are two possibilities for a long one - one as "eye" and one as "ee".

For interest, how does one pronounce "Smyslov"? (now we're getting back to real chessplayers :rolleyes: )

DJ

Rincewind
05-10-2005, 09:22 PM
I had not heard of 'antepenultimate' previously. Had to check it out (surreptitiously) in my Macquarie Concise (2nd ed.).
Sure enough...it is there...how could I doubt you.

Have all the question marks gone on holidays.


Seems a bit constructive like some of those German words you see occasionally. But I did like the chessic part at the end.

Just wait until I get the chance to use hemidemisemiquaver.


Have you used it often?

Lamentably, no.


My understanding is that in Russian all syllables are equally stressed.

That's outrageous. Such long names and all equally stressed.


As for Svidler, I can't imagine the correct pronunciation being a short "i" but there are two possibilities for a long one - one as "eye" and one as "ee".

My money is on eye. Not sure about ee and how that might differ from a long e vowel but phonetics never was my strong suit.


For interest, how does one pronounce "Smyslov"? (now we're getting back to real chessplayers :rolleyes: )

I believe I've heard that most often pronounced as a short i and o and the second s said like a z (Smiz-lov).


Back to Svidler, I just got the latest BCM and it has a photo of him chatting with Ian Rogers so Ian can probably give a definitive answer.

Yes he probably could. Perhaps even before having chatted to him the other day. ;)

shaun
05-10-2005, 10:03 PM
My understanding is that in Russian all syllables are equally stressed.

As for Svidler, I can't imagine the correct pronunciation being a short "i" but there are two possibilities for a long one - one as "eye" and one as "ee".

For interest, how does one pronounce "Smyslov"? (now we're getting back to real chessplayers :rolleyes: )

DJ

According to my copy of "Russian for Chessplayers" (Hanon W. Russell), Smyslov is pronounced "smiss LOFF" (soft ss's i guess). Kasparov is "kass PAR off", and while Svidler doesn't get a mention I am pretty sure I've heard it pronounced by Ian Rogers with a short i rather than a long one.

Bill Gletsos
05-10-2005, 11:47 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Baz :eek: :eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I had not heard of 'antepenultimate' previously. Had to check it out (surreptitiously) in my Macquarie Concise (2nd ed.).
Sure enough...it is there...how could I doubt you.

Seems a bit constructive like some of those German words you see occasionally. But I did like the chessic part at the end.

Have you used it often?

regards
starterActually Matt was the first to use antepenultimate on this board except he spelt it starting with anti.

BTW when discussing syllables you can use the word antepenult which means the 3rd syllable of a word counting from the end.

bergil
06-10-2005, 03:43 AM
Yes well back to the chess, my tips are:
Polgar
Draw
Draw
Topalov

Garvinator
06-10-2005, 04:50 AM
draw, draw, anand, polgar

bergil
06-10-2005, 06:45 AM
draw, draw, anand, polgar
You posted your tips 45mins after the games started :naughty:

Rincewind
06-10-2005, 01:11 PM
Round 8:
Veselin Topalov 1-0 Peter Leko
R. Kasimdzhanov ½-½ A. Morozevich
Michael Adams ½-½ Peter Svidler
Vishy Anand 1-0 Judit Polgar

Kevin Bonham
06-10-2005, 01:18 PM
Damn, I was thinking of tipping Leko for a win that round, would have put me in the lead.

Gringo 14: 2d 0 2 2 2 2 4
KB 13: 1 3 1 1 1 4 2
pax 13: 2d 2 1 2 3 2 1
Rincewind 13: 2 2 2 1d 1d 3 2
alldraws 12: 2 4 0 0 3 3 0
bergil 12: 1 2 1d 2 1 2 3 1
442 10: 2d 2 1d 1d 0 2 2
Frosty has lost interest
AR 9: 2d 1 2 1 1 1 1
Ian Rout 8: 2d 1 0 0 1 2 2
TCN 8: 2d 0d 2 2 1d 1d 0d
jase 8: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 3 0d
GG 7: 2 1 1 0 0 3 0d
default 6: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d 0d

Tips submitted after the horses have left the barrier do not count.

Round 8

Adams, Michael - Svidler, Peter
Anand, Viswanathan - Polgar, Judit
Kasimdzhanov, Rustam - Morozevich, Alexander
Topalov, Veselin - Leko, Peter

draw, Anand, draw, Topalov.

Bill Gletsos
06-10-2005, 01:24 PM
You posted your tips 45mins after the games started :naughty:It didnt help him. ;)

pax
06-10-2005, 01:47 PM
You posted your tips 45mins after the games started :naughty:

That's ok, he got them all wrong!

pax
06-10-2005, 01:53 PM
draw, anand, kasim, draw

Ian Rout
06-10-2005, 02:02 PM
I'm feeling tired, I think I'll just have four draws for this round.

Gringo
06-10-2005, 04:01 PM
Rd 8

Topalov
Anand
Kasim
Svidler

arosar
06-10-2005, 07:53 PM
R8

Topalov – Leko, 1-0
Kasimdzhanov – Morozevich, 0-1
Adams – Svidler, 0-1
Anand – Polgar, .5-.5

All late entries, post move 1, should be disqualified with no points awarded.

AR

four four two
06-10-2005, 09:02 PM
Topalov,Svidler ,draw,draw. ;)

bergil
07-10-2005, 01:18 AM
Veselin Topalov 1-0 Peter Leko
R. Kasimdzhanov 1-0 A. Morozevich
Michael Adams 0-1 Peter Svidler
Vishy Anand 1-0 Judit Polgar

Kevin Bonham
07-10-2005, 01:45 AM
All late entries, post move 1, should be disqualified with no points awarded.

Entries post the official scheduled starting time (as measured using this forum's clock) will be ignored and given the default for that round.

bergil
07-10-2005, 02:09 AM
Entries post the official scheduled starting time (as measured using this forum's clock) will be ignored and given the default for that round.
But what if the default is the best score of the day?

bergil
07-10-2005, 02:15 AM
C'mon how about this, If your not in on time you should get a choice of either a blunt stick in the eye or a sharp kick in the rear :buttkick:= 0 Bad lucky monkey boy :P

ursogr8
07-10-2005, 09:36 AM
Regarding the tipping contest I was thinking for future events we might want to change the points scored for tipping each result. I've had a look at all the games I have from TWIC in a database (567,285 games) and the distribution of results are as follows,

1-0 37.8%
½-½ 32.9%
0-1 29.2%

So a simple system using that as the baseline expected distribution of results would be:

7 points for correctly predicting a 1-0,
8 points for correctly predicting a ½-½, and
9 points for correctly predicting a 0-1.

Perhaps in some events less wins and more draws are expected but something to think about for the future.


After 7 rounds
1-0.........10
1/2-1/2...12
0-1.........6


starter

Kevin Bonham
07-10-2005, 12:52 PM
pax 16: 2d 2 1 2 3 2 1 3
KB 15: 1 3 1 1 1 4 2 2
Gringo 15: 2d 0 2 2 2 2 4 1
Rincewind 15: 2 2 2 1d 1d 3 2 2
alldraws 14: 2 4 0 0 3 3 0 2
bergil 13: 1 2 1d 2 1 2 3 1 1
AR 10: 2d 1 2 1 1 1 1 1
Ian Rout 10: 2d 1 0 0 1 2 2 2
442 10: 2d 2 1d 1d 0 2 2 0
TCN has fallen off the active list
jase 9: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 3 0d 1d
GG 8: 2 1 1 0 0 3 0d 1d
default 7: 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d 0d 1d

rest day then Round 9

Anand, Viswanathan - Topalov, Veselin
Morozevich, Alexander - Leko, Peter
Polgar, Judit - Adams, Michael
Svidler, Peter - Kasimdzhanov, Rustam

draw, draw, draw, Svidler

Kevin Bonham
07-10-2005, 12:56 PM
After 7 rounds
1-0.........11
1/2-1/2...12
0-1.........5


starter

Actually after 7 rounds it was 10-12-6.

ursogr8
07-10-2005, 02:04 PM
Actually after 7 rounds it was 10-12-6.

Yes, you are correct. I misread the 4th score in the round 4 scores of the Rooty Hill site. I had that counted as 4,0,0; instead of 3,0,1

Will fix my original post.

tks
starter

Gringo
07-10-2005, 02:21 PM
Rd 9

Topalov
Moro
Adams
Svidler

arosar
07-10-2005, 02:38 PM
Rd9

Morozevich – Leko, .5-.5
Svidler – Kasimdzhanov, 1-0
Polgar – Adams, .5-.5
Anand – Topalov, .5-.5

AR

Ian Rout
07-10-2005, 02:54 PM
Svidler, Leko and two draws.

bergil
07-10-2005, 03:17 PM
Standings

1 Veselin Topalov 7
2 Peter Svidler 5
3 Vishwanathan Anand 4.5
4 Alexander Morozevich 4
Peter Leko 4
5 Rustam Kasimdzhanov 3
6 Michael Adams 2.5
7 Judit Polgar 2

Dozy
07-10-2005, 04:48 PM
Has anybody seen anything about Topalov's projected rating (or performance rating) since the start of this tournament? 7/8 so far has to be phenomenal.

bergil
07-10-2005, 06:07 PM
Has anybody seen anything about Topalov's projected rating (or performance rating) since the start of this tournament? 7/8 so far has to be phenomenal.
I read on a blog that after 7 rounds Topalov's rating would be 2807, after the draw don't know.

Dozy
07-10-2005, 09:43 PM
I read on a blog that after 7 rounds Topalov's rating would be 2807, after the draw don't know.
thanks b-b-bergil ... it'll be interesting to see the next FIDE list

pax
07-10-2005, 10:21 PM
Has anybody seen anything about Topalov's projected rating (or performance rating) since the start of this tournament? 7/8 so far has to be phenomenal.

bergil is spot on. He loses about 0.7 points per draw, and gains about 4.3 per win.

I was actually wrong earlier, as I hadn't accounted for the 6 points he lost at Dortmund. Topalov now needs +8 (currently +6) over the tournament to equal Kasparov and +9 to move ahead. A stretch, but not a huge one.

pax
07-10-2005, 10:31 PM
Ok, I'm going out on a limb here:

ANAND, draw, svidler, draw

and suddenly it's game on again!

bergil
08-10-2005, 12:05 AM
Draw
Draw
Polgar
Svidler

Dozy
08-10-2005, 05:22 AM
bergil is spot on. He loses about 0.7 points per draw, and gains about 4.3 per win.

I was actually wrong earlier, as I hadn't accounted for the 6 points he lost at Dortmund. Topalov now needs +8 (currently +6) over the tournament to equal Kasparov and +9 to move ahead. A stretch, but not a huge one.Thanks Pax

Rincewind
08-10-2005, 10:53 PM
Rnd 9. All draws.

four four two
09-10-2005, 12:03 AM
My round 9 picks are draw,draw,Polgar,Svidler. ;)

dannyk
09-10-2005, 12:58 AM
Hi,


I will have a go...

Anand
Polgar
Draw
Leko

:-)

Dozy
09-10-2005, 09:26 AM
The Round 9 games are now available on the Rooty Hill website.
http://www.rootyhillchess.org

Gringo
09-10-2005, 01:12 PM
Rd 10

Topalov
Leko
Kasim
Anand

Rincewind
09-10-2005, 06:00 PM
Round 10

Topalov 1-0 Morozevich
Leko ½-½ Svidler
Kasimdzhanov ½-½ Polgar
Adams 0-1 Anand

four four two
09-10-2005, 06:05 PM
Round 10 picks are Topalov,Svidler,draw,Anand. ;)

Ian Rout
09-10-2005, 06:13 PM
Topalov and three draws.

Rincewind
09-10-2005, 06:28 PM
Here is the tipping table by my reckoning...


Name R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 Total
Rincewind 2 2 2 1d 1d 3 2 2 3 18
alldraws 2 4 0 0 3 3 0 2 3 17
KB 1 3 1 1 1 4 2 2 2 17
pax 2d 2 1 2 3 2 1 3 1 17
Gringo 2d 0 2 2 2 2 4 1 1 16
bergil 1 2 1d 2 2 3 1 1 1 14
AR 2d 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 12
Ian Rout 2d 1 0 0 1 2 2 2 2 12
442 2d 2 1d 1d 0 2 2 0 1 11
jase 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 3 0d 1d 0d 9
dannyk 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d 0d 1d 1 8
GG 2 1 1 0 0 3 0d 1d 0d 8
default 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d 0d 1d 0d 7

arosar
09-10-2005, 06:49 PM
R10

Leko – Svidler, .5-.5
Topalov – Morozevich, 0-1
Kasimdzhanov – Polgar, 0-1
Adams – Anand, 0-1

AR

Kevin Bonham
09-10-2005, 07:26 PM
Thanks for updating the results, Barry, I've been busy today.

Round 10

Draw
Kasimdzhanov
Draw
Topalov

pax
09-10-2005, 11:43 PM
Topalov, draw, draw, draw

bergil
10-10-2005, 01:58 AM
Svidler
Topalov
Kasimjanov
Draw

Gringo
10-10-2005, 08:58 AM
Rd 11
Topalov,Anand,Leko,Moro.

Rd 12
Topalov,Moro,Leko,Kasim.

Rd 13 ( a Black day indeed....)
Topalov,Leko,Moro,Sviddy.

Rd 14
Topalov,Sviddy,Moro,Leko.

Basically the Anti-Bonham tipping style.....

Dozy
10-10-2005, 09:48 AM
Round 10 games now available on the Rooty Hill site http://www.rootyhillchess.org

Rincewind
10-10-2005, 11:39 AM
Lead changes again, congrats to KB (and alldraws) for winning the round...

Again by my reckoning...


Name R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 R10 Total
alldraws 2 4 0 0 3 3 0 2 3 3 20
KB 1 3 1 1 1 4 2 2 2 3 20
pax 2d 2 1 2 3 2 1 3 1 2 19
Rincewind 2 2 2 1d 1d 3 2 2 3 1 19
Gringo 2d 0 2 2 2 2 4 1 1 1 17
bergil 1 2 1d 2 2 3 1 1 1 2 16
Ian Rout 2d 1 0 0 1 2 2 2 2 2 14
AR 2d 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 13
442 2d 2 1d 1d 0 2 2 0 1 0 11
jase 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 3 0d 1d 0d 0d 9
dannyk 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d 0d 1d 1 0d 8
GG 2 1 1 0 0 3 0d 1d 0d 0d 8
default 2d 0d 1d 1d 1d 1d 0d 1d 0d 0d 7

Rincewind
10-10-2005, 11:52 AM
Round 11
Michael Adams ½-½ Veselin Topalov
Vishy Anand 1-0 R. Kasimdzhanov
Judit Polgar ½-½ Peter Leko
Peter Svidler 1-0 A. Morozevich