PDA

View Full Version : What we have in NSW



PHAT
04-08-2005, 02:12 AM
From the NSWCA, will you accept another year of:

Axing the Purdy Memorial.
Pissing off voluteer newsletter writers.
Ruining the Open division grade comp by "fiddling" with the draw.
Sitting on $80k and doing sweet FA with it.
Ripping off clubs who's members are not in the NSWCA.
Not booking the Rose Bay venue.
Processing of dodgy results.
Nobbling the ACF.
Causing a yearly 10% drop in membership.
Regularly starting events an hour late.
Cramming 100 players into the NSW Sardine Open.
Causing the biggest clubs to plan to "go it alone".
Offering no incentive to bring juniors into the senior ranks.

Think about dumping the NSWCA and going with St George.

antichrist
04-08-2005, 09:15 AM
A state championship whose itinery only caters for Sydneysiders
No official regional delegates (but coming)
Council meetings on the wrong side of the Harbour (no tea & bics)
No self-owned Sydney Chess Centre
No provision in constitution for ordinary members to sit in on Council/committee meetings when business directly affects them
Only one Bill Gletsos

antichrist
09-08-2005, 05:43 PM
A state championship whose itinery only caters for Sydneysiders
No official regional delegates (but coming)
Council meetings on the wrong side of the Harbour (no tea & bics)
No self-owned Sydney Chess Centre
No provision in constitution for ordinary members to sit in on Council/committee meetings when business directly affects them
Only one Bill Gletsos

Players residing in other states cannot join the NSWCA.

firegoat7
11-08-2005, 07:59 PM
Maleficant autocrats

Rincewind
11-08-2005, 08:35 PM
Maleficant autocrats
I believe you mean 'maleficent'.

PHAT
13-08-2005, 06:17 PM
Charging a membership fee while letting non-members get their games processed FREE.

PHAT
13-08-2005, 06:21 PM
A NSWCA that turns away old age pensioners who cannot afford $100 entry to the NSW Championship.

Trent Parker
14-08-2005, 11:03 PM
A NSWCA that turns away old age pensioners who cannot afford $100 entry to the NSW Championship. Matt You realise that $100 is only for those who wish to play in the 10 player round robin? This is to be a premier event. If people want to play in the premier event they must pay to play the premier event.

PHAT
15-08-2005, 07:45 AM
Matt You realise that $100 is only for those who wish to play in the 10 player round robin? This is to be a premier event. If people want to play in the premier event they must pay to play the premier event.

Yes mate, but I deliberately chose the highest fee because it sounds worse :lol: Nevertheless, pensioners are still charged at the same rate as the employed - which is to my mind, un-Australian.

You and I both know people who lob in to watch a few games but do not enter because they cannot afford the $70.


BTW, are you aware that decent good people sometimes ignore un-Autralian rules.

ursogr8
15-08-2005, 10:18 PM
A state championship whose itinery only caters for Sydneysiders
No official regional delegates (but coming)
Council meetings on the wrong side of the Harbour (no tea & bics)
No self-owned Sydney Chess Centre
No provision in constitution for ordinary members to sit in on Council/committee meetings when business directly affects them
Only one Bill Gletsos

And an absolute hogging of all the good controversies by the Welshers at the moment.


How about Rob from W.A giving us an update on the state of play in the West.


gg''...can you get off the banana lounge and report something.


fg7...have you been seduced by the picture of the MCC on the CV flyer for the coming event?

Garvinator
15-08-2005, 10:22 PM
gg''...can you get off the banana lounge and report something.

i am involved in enough controversies on here and from chess tournaments that I report on here that I dont need to make special reports on the matters for the bbers

antichrist
15-08-2005, 11:06 PM
i am involved in enough controversies on here and from chess tournaments that I report on here that I dont need to make special reports on the matters for the bbers

What about that Gold Coast event, only one hour each per player (plus increment) but only five rounds for a two day comp. - surely a ?? move.

This is the perversions caused by blind adherance to ridiculous time increments game for the sake of being seen to be civilised or with it.

Garvinator
16-08-2005, 12:01 AM
What about that Gold Coast event, only one hour each per player (plus increment) but only five rounds for a two day comp. - surely a ?? move.

This is the perversions caused by blind adherance to ridiculous time increments game for the sake of being seen to be civilised or with it.
This tournament is an adults only tournament being run by Graeme Gardiner at the Gardiner chess centre. It is not a caq event and is being solely organised by Graeme. Personally I think it is one, if not two rounds too short for a 60/10 time control. Six rounds of 60/30 for what I expect that field size to be would be ok too.

I am not sure how increments are making a difference to whether it is five, six, seven or 69 rounds? I think you are trying to make everything out to be the fault of increment play.

antichrist
16-08-2005, 09:16 AM
This tournament is an adults only tournament being run by Graeme Gardiner at the Gardiner chess centre. It is not a caq event and is being solely organised by Graeme. Personally I think it is one, if not two rounds too short for a 60/10 time control. Six rounds of 60/30 for what I expect that field size to be would be ok too.

I am not sure how increments are making a difference to whether it is five, six, seven or 69 rounds? I think you are trying to make everything out to be the fault of increment play.

I went to one comp there and the rounds were delayed terribly because scagglars(?) did not know how to finish games etc. it was the biggest waste of time. They were not even decent games to be worth watch their endgame.

I expect that allowing for the time increment is substanctially the reason for dropping of one round. As a person who has to travel to GC, it is not worth travelling for two days for only five games of one hour each. As stated earlier I can do the Sydney Easter Comp and over two days run 7 rounds of one hour each and a lightning in the evening of second day.

That is substantial and worth travelling for. And people do travel.

It is too easy to say that Qeenlanders are a bit slow - joking

Garvinator
16-08-2005, 11:49 AM
I went to one comp there and the rounds were delayed terribly because scagglars(?) did not know how to finish games etc. it was the biggest waste of time. They were not even decent games to be worth watch their endgame.

I expect that allowing for the time increment is substanctially the reason for dropping of one round. As a person who has to travel to GC, it is not worth travelling for two days for only five games of one hour each. As stated earlier I can do the Sydney Easter Comp and over two days run 7 rounds of one hour each and a lightning in the evening of second day.

That is substantial and worth travelling for. And people do travel.

It is too easy to say that Qeenlanders are a bit slow - joking

you are being a goose, if 7 rounds of 60/10 increment kept entries away then there would almost be no weekenders at all anywhere in australia as almost all weekenders use the 10 second increment.

i dont know why Graeme is only running the comp as five rounds but I know I wont be playing in it due to the five rounds. I wonder how many other adults will take the same stance.

antichrist
16-08-2005, 04:06 PM
you are being a goose, if 7 rounds of 60/10 increment kept entries away then there would almost be no weekenders at all anywhere in australia as almost all weekenders use the 10 second increment.

i dont know why Graeme is only running the comp as five rounds but I know I wont be playing in it due to the five rounds. I wonder how many other adults will take the same stance.

Somehow here we have crossed wires. Who mentioned 7 rounds of 60/10?? GC Adult is going to be 5 rounds of 60/10, and SEC is 7 rounds of one hour each guillotine finish plus lightning - which drew people.

I was only joking when saying that Qlders were slow - don't say that life is inimating art?

If sufficient locals turn up for the GC Adult I suppose it does not matter the format or whatever non-attendees think - that has always been my attitude with Sydney Easter Cup anyway.

I am posting under time pressure so hope I have not knocked my won stumps.

Looking at again I don't think registration, 7 rounds of 60/10 and lightning could fit in a two day comp. - in case that was what you were inferring.

Thunderspirit
16-08-2005, 04:49 PM
Players residing in other states cannot join the NSWCA.

Why would non NSW resident want to join the NSWCA? What would they gain for their money??

EGOR
16-08-2005, 04:53 PM
Why would non NSW resident want to join the NSWCA? What would they gain for their money??
Privilege! :owned:

auriga
16-08-2005, 05:24 PM
newsletter. tournament updates via mail/email,
discounts for tournaments (if there were any eg. lived in qld but was closer to nsw) etc.

realise could get from internet but some people don't have internet
(and internet costs money also).

tcn (on locatio
17-08-2005, 01:46 PM
.... is a banned member who sprouts rubbish all over a bulletin board when he had full opportunity to defend himself.

PHAT
17-08-2005, 02:03 PM
.... is a banned member who sprouts rubbish all over a bulletin board when he had full opportunity to defend himself.

"Defence" implies an act of attack. We have a Council that attacks its members like an auto-immune disease. Macrophage Vs Schwann Cell is no way to stay healthy.

antichrist
17-08-2005, 03:36 PM
you are being a goose, if 7 rounds of 60/10 increment kept entries away then there would almost be no weekenders at all anywhere in australia as almost all weekenders use the 10 second increment.

i dont know why Graeme is only running the comp as five rounds but I know I wont be playing in it due to the five rounds. I wonder how many other adults will take the same stance.


Someone from a neutral corner, say Starter, can you give a verdict on who is the goose on this topic, take into consideration my post 16 as well.

PHAT
22-08-2005, 08:03 AM
No canteen /fund raiser in the NSWCA plan - because there is NO PLAN.

antichrist
22-08-2005, 09:14 AM
No canteen /fund raiser in the NSWCA plan - because there is NO PLAN.

amongst the juniors there is a canteen and presumably it is a fund-raiser.

the adult events are usually held at licensed clubs where it is inapprop to sell chocs esp to adults. And we all know how stingy the adults are.

Running dog filling in for AWOL Bill

Libby
22-08-2005, 11:11 AM
amongst the juniors there is a canteen and presumably it is a fund-raiser.

the adult events are usually held at licensed clubs where it is inapprop to sell chocs esp to adults. And we all know how stingy the adults are.

Running dog filling in for AWOL Bill

Not just inappropriate but sometimes a shortcut to losing the support of licensed venues.

Most expect a return level of support for their (often) free or discounted venue hire to come in the form of food and drinks being purchased at their club and not brought from outside.

Canteens are excellent fundraisers when you aren't competing with the services of your venue provider.

With ACTJCL (Oh-no, not the juniors again) we found ourselves without the people to run a canteen at every event (it's not too exciting to have to sit in a food van or kitchen or hallway all day and we are a very small organisation).

Our compromise now is to offer a standard pizza lunch plus drink at a fixed price and sell fundraising lollies & chocolates from the scoretable.

The effort required is therefore only in the collection of the pizzas and in maintaining a stock of canned drinks & chocolates.

The fundraising snacks we buy through Cadbury's and make a 50% return on every item - better than the rate you can make on most similar products even when purchasing from a wholesaler. The pizza comes from one of the pizza chains locally, with whom we negotiated a per pizza price of $5. Drinks we buy whenever the bulk boxes are on sale at the local supermarket and average (even for Coke or Pepsi) 50c or less per can.

Our profit on our pizza lunch is therefore in the vicinity of $3 per lunch and over $100 in total at most tournaments.

Is it the perfect canteen? No, but it provides a very low maintenance/high return option for anybody with a lot of players to cater for and a limited volunteer workforce.

Trent Parker
22-08-2005, 02:15 PM
No canteen /fund raiser in the NSWCA plan - because there is NO PLAN.

Ggray can you tell me does Qld have a plan?

Can someone from Victoria tell me..... Does CV have a "plan"?

Can someone fro SACA tell me..... do you have a "plan"....

Can Someone from ACTCA tell me..... Do you have a "plan"....

Can someone from CAWA tell me...... Do you have a "plan"?

Garvinator
22-08-2005, 02:24 PM
Ggray can you tell me does Qld have a plan?
we do have some sort of a plan, but we are really starting from square one up here, so thoughts of a caq chess centre isnt really on the horizon. Need alot more cash funds than we have atm to even think of a caq chess centre.

We dont have $80K or so in the bank, no where near it.

Trent Parker
22-08-2005, 03:08 PM
we do have some sort of a plan, but we are really starting from square one up here, so thoughts of a caq chess centre isnt really on the horizon. Need alot more cash funds than we have atm to even think of a caq chess centre.

We dont have $80K or so in the bank, no where near it.

what is CAQ's plan?

PHAT
22-08-2005, 04:03 PM
Trent, for arguments sake, let's say that the other states do not have plans. I don't think we will get far comparing ourselves to losers. However, comparison with, say, theose sports that are growing their market share should be instructive.

The fastest growing sports are:

snowsports, soccer, target shooting, softball, kayaking/rafting, backpacking/camping, racquetball, canoeing, and billiards/pool.

The most popular are:
Walking, Swimming, Aerobics, Golf, Tennis, Cycling, Fishing, Running, Netball, Billiards or snooker.

Whatever billiards are doing so should chess. Now look at this (http://www.playbca.com/index.php) and thgis too. (http://www.ibsf.org/news/newsline.php?subaction=showfull&id=1069156111&archive=1070366549&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=1&) And compare it all with the ACF and NSWCA.

antichrist
22-08-2005, 04:20 PM
TCN, seeing that Bill is not here, can you get a ruling if a NSWCA registered player also joins CAQ, can they retain both memberships, do they get a discount? And vice versa which you may not know.

ursogr8
22-08-2005, 05:29 PM
Can someone from Victoria tell me..... Does CV have a "plan"?



TCN

Victoria don't have $80,000 in reserves, but they are solvent. So, no they do not have a plan for how to utilise such an opportunity. In addition, Victoria does not have an NSWJCL equivalent, with its even larger cash reserves.
Perhaps if we had cash reserves in excess of $180,000 we would be attracting more members onto our State Executive to form a plan and follow through on more ambitious activities.

On the other hand, the MCC has always been quite good at planning. They instituted a building fund based on their reserves and then built it up by appeal; and more recently a nice renovation means they own outright an inner city property open 7 days/week.

starter

antichrist
22-08-2005, 05:50 PM
TCN

Victoria don't have $80,000 in reserves, but they are solvent. So, no they do not have a plan for how to utilise such an opportunity. In addition, Victoria does not have an NSWJCL equivalent, with its even larger cash reserves.
Perhaps if we had cash reserves in excess of $180,000 we would be attracting more members onto our State Executive to form a plan and follow through on more ambitious activities.

On the other hand, the MCC has always been quite good at planning. They instituted a building fund based on their reserves and then built it up by appeal; and more recently a nice renovation means they own outright an inner city property open 7 days/week.

starter

Amazing, I have read it correctly haven't I? You own your own premises?

Libby
22-08-2005, 05:53 PM
Ggray can you tell me does Qld have a plan?

Can someone from Victoria tell me..... Does CV have a "plan"?

Can someone fro SACA tell me..... do you have a "plan"....

Can Someone from ACTCA tell me..... Do you have a "plan"....

Can someone from CAWA tell me...... Do you have a "plan"?

Hi Trent

Everybody "not" having a plan isn't the answer.

Huge numbers of struggling along, volunteer-based organisations don't have plans.

ACTJCL does not have a strategic plan. Like many, we are consumed with the "doing" from day-to-day.

That doesn't mean this is right.

I attended some excellent Club Development lectures when I was ACTJCL President and came away quite inspired on the planning front. There was no organisation there that hadn't benefitted from going through the whole (somewhat wanky-seeming) planning exercise.

There are very good free resources on the Club Development Network on all these issues.

What I found I couldn't deal with was being President, coping with the nay-sayers and running almost every event & activity. I lacked the skills to delegate, the thick skin to survive the mauling, and the time to give everything my best effort.

I don't think it's unreasonable for your constituency to question the need for a plan for your cash reserves. We are grappling with ACTJCL's bank balance which has increased significantly in recent years. It's important to have cash reserves and to behave in a fiscally responsible manner but I also think it's reasonable for your membership to see how they benefit from the money in the bank. If it isn't returned to them in services one would hope there would be some long-range goals or plans. Otherwise, it's a bit pointless having all that money isn't it?

ursogr8
22-08-2005, 09:45 PM
Amazing, I have read it correctly haven't I? You own your own premises?
Dear Dorothy

The Melbourne Chess Club has its own premises.
Clean, functional, and featured on the front of the Chess Victoria brochure advertising the about-to-start VIC Championships.

Now, whether you have read correctly depends on who you meant as 'You' in your post. ;)

regards
Dix

antichrist
22-08-2005, 11:21 PM
Thank you Guruboy's Sugardaddy

That is one over NSWCA

ursogr8
23-08-2005, 09:02 AM
Thank you Guruboy's Sugardaddy

That is one over NSWCA

a/c

If that is who you meant as 'You', then, no, you did not read correctly.

And yes, it is a result of planning and follow-through to use a nest-egg.

starter

Garvinator
23-08-2005, 02:56 PM
TCN, seeing that Bill is not here, can you get a ruling if a NSWCA registered player also joins CAQ, can they retain both memberships, do they get a discount? And vice versa which you may not know.
you wont let this go will you. I havent answered because there is a caq council meeting this sunday and I am going to get a proper answer then by asking about this issue. I am sure I know the answer, but I would rather just get it formally clarified at the caq council meeting before replying.

antichrist
23-08-2005, 08:26 PM
you wont let this go will you. I havent answered because there is a caq council meeting this sunday and I am going to get a proper answer then by asking about this issue. I am sure I know the answer, but I would rather just get it formally clarified at the caq council meeting before replying.

If I had a reply by last Saturday I may have attended a GC comp last weekend. Better late then never, will know for next time. thanks anyway.

rob
23-08-2005, 09:55 PM
If it isn't returned to them in services one would hope there would be some long-range goals or plans. Otherwise, it's a bit pointless having all that money isn't it?
Libby - are you trying to lead MS: he is likely to use your statement against the NSWCA claiming that there is no chess centre nor a newsletter for members (so not enough services) & no undsiclosed plans.

PHAT
23-08-2005, 11:38 PM
Libby - are you trying to lead MS: he is likely to use your statement against the NSWCA claiming that there is no chess centre nor a newsletter for members (so not enough services) & no undsiclosed plans.

Creadit where it is due:

The NSWCA now has a newsletter :clap:
put together by Trent Parker :clap:

A Sydney Chess Centre is near but far. Near because it could be tried, far because NSWCA do not want to try it.

Bu the end of next year, the NSWCA and the NSWJCL will have between them around $200k. I am not the person to govern the use of those funds as I am probably too much of a "risker". The dinosaurs in the NSWCA/JCL are not the group to use those funds in a way to expand chess and create a "bigger" future. Is there anyone/group who might actually come in the middle of these extremes. Rob?

bergil
23-08-2005, 11:50 PM
Creadit where it is due:

The NSWCA now has a newsletter :clap:
put together by Trent Parker :clap:

A Sydney Chess Centre is near but far. Near because it could be tried, far because NSWCA do not want to try it.

Bu the end of next year, the NSWCA and the NSWJCL will have between them around $200k. I am not the person to govern the use of those funds as I am probably too much of a "risker". The dinosaurs in the NSWCA/JCL are not the group to use those funds in a way to expand chess and create a "bigger" future. Is there anyone/group who might actually come in the middle of these extremes. Rob?
There is no shortage of clubs in which to play chess in Sydney and being that chess players can play chess anywhere in Sydney for free at clubs on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturdays plus week enders.

What is the real need for a chess centre?

PHAT
24-08-2005, 12:25 AM
What is the real need for a chess centre?

It becomes a "home."
Such a "home" gives players a sense of belonging and ownwership.
At present we (in NSW) are paracites on the footy clubs. We have no dignity. Furthermore, we have no right to ask for sponsorship when we cannot even organise a a bloody "club house" for ourselves. We look sick and stupid and pathetic. What potential sponsor would so much as give us second look with our record? None.

bergil
24-08-2005, 02:02 AM
It becomes a "home."
Such a "home" gives players a sense of belonging and ownwership.
At present we (in NSW) are paracites on the footy clubs. We have no dignity. Furthermore, we have no right to ask for sponsorship when we cannot even organise a a bloody "club house" for ourselves. We look sick and stupid and pathetic. What potential sponsor would so much as give us second look with our record? None.
A home for who? A false sense of ownership and being a more actice member in your local club would give you that belonging feeling your after.

Footy and RSL clubs get tax exemptions from the government, they also claim sub clubs as cat 2 charities. These clubs are built on the foundation of being for the comminity and non-profit. they use sub clubs (chess) as a way of meeting their obligation for their tax status.

Sponorship is not linked with a chess centre, but a chess centre is not fiscally responsible and a waste of what money we do have.

PHAT
24-08-2005, 02:22 AM
A home for who? A false sense of ownership and being a more actice member in your local club would give you that belonging feeling your after.
These "members" of yours are NOT about to become "more active" so forget that argument. Most people/member/players need to be lead. That is why we need leaders, derrrr.


Footy and RSL clubs get tax exemptions from the government, they also claim sub clubs as cat 2 charities. These clubs are built on the foundation of being for the comminity and non-profit. they use sub clubs (chess) as a way of meeting their obligation for their tax status.

Utterly irrelentent to the dicsussion. In any case if you want to go down that road, a not-for-profit NSWCA would be able to use similar tax consessions to make a Centre viable.


Sponorship is not linked with a chess centre, but a chess centre is not fiscally responsible and a waste of what money we do have.

Sponsors DO ook at the dunamism of the sport/organisation that they might help. They want to know if the dudes at the top are able to organise stuff. eg. a finacially viable "cehss centre."

Also, allowing $200k to ern bank interest is the second most irresponsible waste of the money we do have - the most being to "lose" it.

Garvinator
24-08-2005, 02:55 AM
Time to waddle into nsw affairs for something to do, or maybe that I consider that on this topic, something I have to say, might actually be relevant (that couldnt be it :owned: ).

I think a sydney type chess centre is essential for the long term planned growth of the sport.

Currently in nsw there is a junior venue at Lidcombe where most, if not all, nswjcl tournaments are held. The junior players know where they are going to play and get used to playing there. They can get a sense of familiarity with the venue etc.

The adults on the other hand, play at a variety of leagues clubs located all over the greater sydney area. While this is a very good short term idea ie the leagues clubs give you good deals and probably some free facilities, it is subject to one criteria, the generosity of the leagues clubs. Having clubs in different parts of sydney is still very important, but I dont think the reliance on leagues clubs is a good LONG TERM proposition.

Also one of the greatest problems Australian chess has is retention of juniors. Imagine how much more likely it would be to retain more juniors into the open ranks if they were able to continue on playing at the same venue as they played at in their junior days.

With a sydney chess centre, all the nswca tournaments could be held at one venue. The Grade match saga would be able to be avoided in the future because the finals could be held at the sydney chess centre.

Probably one of the greatest factors though against a sydney chess centre is lack of true co-operation between the different warring factions :(

Not sure how much of this is relevant or is going to actually help any in discussions as it is typed at 250am and just cobbled together from many thoughts :eek: and I am a queenslander, so i will of course get the usual comments of either, stay out of nsw business or you are from qld, what would you know :rolleyes:

Libby
24-08-2005, 10:51 AM
Not sure about all this chess centre talk.

How does a venue in the Sydney CBD (or thereabouts) grow NSW chess?

Wouldn't strong club and regional organisations be the most effective way to grow chess?

I'm not sure why links with licensed clubs are a bad thing? I am, or have been, linked to a major licensed club in Canberra which supported everything from the softball, baseball & little athletics associations to Kayleigh's current chess club. Win-win.

I would far prefer to see chess modelling itself on the structure of other sports. Little local clubs and regional associations developing your grass roots players and juniors. State associations stepping in at the inter-district and representative level and conducting the major state championships (or allocating them to regional clubs/associations on a rotational basis). And your national association managing your national events and international representatives.

Rather than a chess centre, I would rather see money going into regional development, publicity and formalisation of qualifications, credentials, procedures and accreditation.

My daughter's gymnastics club have received additional funding because they have jumped through many hoops to get their coaches, conduct, equipment, qualifications etc etc up to a particular standard. That's professionalism. that's not about getting paid, that's about the way you run yourself.

That's a step towards being a professional organisation. Chess seems happy to slop along and excuse clear breaches of, not just our rules, but an international standard.

bergil
24-08-2005, 11:12 AM
These "members" of yours are NOT about to become "more active" so forget that argument. Most people/member/players need to be lead. That is why we need leaders, derrrr.

If players/members are not going to be more active then what will the centre be for? The juniors have a place already,they don't need or want another.


Utterly irrelentent to the dicsussion. In any case if you want to go down that road, a not-for-profit NSWCA would be able to use similar tax consessions to make a Centre viable..
Right but the income they generate is what? What your saying is that chess should start to make serious money out of the players. NSWCA membership fees up, tournament fees up, charging per visit and the like.



Also, allowing $200k to ern bank interest is the second most irresponsible waste of the money we do have - the most being to "lose" it.
Losing it all is what a chess centre will do, how much to visit the centre will you charge? Who will run it for you? Insurance? Maintance? and get your greedy hands off the juniors funds, they want nothing to do with the centre.

It would be great to have a centre but it is not viable, unless of course some multi dies and leaves it to chess

pax
24-08-2005, 11:31 AM
Even with $200K, you won't come remotely close to buying a suitable premesis of an appropriate size, and certainly not in the CBD.

And what kind of mortgage do you think you are going to get with the income of the NSWCA? (Maybe $10000 from membership fees)

PHAT
24-08-2005, 03:21 PM
Time to waddle into nsw affairs for something to do, or maybe that I consider that on this topic, something I have to say, might actually be relevant (that couldnt be it :owned: ).

I think a sydney type chess centre is essential for the long term planned growth of the sport.

Currently in nsw there is a junior venue at Lidcombe where most, if not all, nswjcl tournaments are held. The junior players know where they are going to play and get used to playing there. They can get a sense of familiarity with the venue etc.

The adults on the other hand, play at a variety of leagues clubs located all over the greater sydney area. While this is a very good short term idea ie the leagues clubs give you good deals and probably some free facilities, it is subject to one criteria, the generosity of the leagues clubs. Having clubs in different parts of sydney is still very important, but I dont think the reliance on leagues clubs is a good LONG TERM proposition.

Also one of the greatest problems Australian chess has is retention of juniors. Imagine how much more likely it would be to retain more juniors into the open ranks if they were able to continue on playing at the same venue as they played at in their junior days.

With a sydney chess centre, all the nswca tournaments could be held at one venue. The Grade match saga would be able to be avoided in the future because the finals could be held at the sydney chess centre.

Probably one of the greatest factors though against a sydney chess centre is lack of true co-operation between the different warring factions :(

Not sure how much of this is relevant or is going to actually help any in discussions as it is typed at 250am and just cobbled together from many thoughts :eek: and I am a queenslander, so i will of course get the usual comments of either, stay out of nsw business or you are from qld, what would you know :rolleyes:

Good post Grey :D

bergil
25-08-2005, 02:18 PM
Good post Grey :D
No it wasn't but as you can not refute good reasoning, blindly cling to any support of a poor position.

PHAT
25-08-2005, 03:44 PM
If players/members are not going to be more active then what will the centre be for? The juniors have a place already,they don't need or want another.

They wont become more active in an administrative role, not as players.

The Juniors DO NOT have a place. They play in basketball stadium - brass monkeys in winter, crematorium in summer. And when rent is paid for it. You know what they say about "renters," well, it applies to us too.



Right but the income they generate is what? What your saying is that chess should start to make serious money out of the players.

Not quite. It should be making serious money by having huge numbers of players. Not by milking the few that are playing now.


NSWCA membership fees up, No.

tournament fees up, No

charging per visit and the like. Yes, small charge X large number.




Losing it all is what a chess centre will do, What is the difference to us NSW chess players if:
1. The money is never used or
2. The money is lost.
There is no effective difference.

how much to visit the centre will you charge? Who will run it for you? Insurance? Maintance? First comes the plan, Second comes the details. No plan = no details. NSWCA does not even want a plan!!


and get your greedy hands off the juniors funds,

That's rich. The NSWJCL has its greedy hands in the pockets of parents to the tune of $100+k over the years. iIt is time they started something long lasting, concret, subtantial with it - instead of "business as usual". BTW, I think the NSWJCL is doing a fine job.


they want nothing to do with the centre.

Why?


It would be great to have a centre but it is not viable,

Your proof?
It wouldn't happen to be the report done for the NSWCA that nobody that I know has ever seen.


unless of course some multi dies and leaves it to chess

They do not have to have died to put something BIG into NSW chess. If the NSWCA showed some good will and vision on the Sydney Chess Centre idea, someone is somewhat likely to come forward.

However, the current NSWCA our worst enemy when it comes to vision and good will.

firegoat7
25-08-2005, 11:40 PM
Hello,

Exactly how can buying a chess centre be a bad thing for the NSWCA with property doubling in value every 7 years?


Cheers Fg7

bergil
26-08-2005, 02:18 AM
Hello,

Exactly how can buying a chess centre be a bad thing for the NSWCA with property doubling in value every 7 years?


Cheers Fg7
With what money? :wall:

bergil
26-08-2005, 03:04 AM
Yes, small charge X large number..

Where will the large numbers of players be coming from? Where are they now?



That's rich. The NSWJCL has its greedy hands in the pockets of parents to the tune of $100+k over the years. iIt is time they started something long lasting, concret, subtantial with it - instead of "business as usual". BTW, I think the NSWJCL is doing a fine job.
What are you saying? NSWJCL is ripping cash out of parents pockets and you think its good that they are! :doh:



Why?
Because is is not financially viable :wall:



Your proof?
It wouldn't happen to be the report done for the NSWCA that nobody that I know has ever seen.
You would have seen it, if as asked by the council you did the report! :hmm:




They do not have to have died to put something BIG into NSW chess. If the NSWCA showed some good will and vision on the Sydney Chess Centre idea, someone is somewhat likely to come forward.
And then prince charming having found the slipper, sorry was caught up in your fairy tale. Yes thats the answer we are all looking for. "Someone is somewhat likely to come forward" pure genius :clap:

ursogr8
26-08-2005, 08:19 AM
With what money? :wall:


............... will start an MCC history thread some other time if you like??

Malcolm

A brief history of how the MCC secured their current premises, in Fitzroy, (via Elizabeth St and Peel St) would actually be useful for the doubting thomas's in Welshland.
Please treat as priority (so they can move forward in their discussion).

regards
Trevor

ps In the mean-time, bergil could read here (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~chessmel/history.html), and look at the interior here. (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~chessmel/gallery.html)

antichrist
26-08-2005, 08:54 AM
With what money? :wall:

Going way back in Mohammadian times people were known to borrow money - I wonder if that practise still continues.

Providing it is positively geared rental wise one day it will pay itself (with help of donations and wills etc.) and then will be ours to use FOC except for running expenses.

A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step - ancient Chinese saying.

Trent Parker
26-08-2005, 10:19 AM
If the NSWCA were to borrow money we would need to make money. Show that we can make the repayments.... the amount the NSWCA has in the bank is nowhere near enough. It make money we would have to up prices up entry fees.... etc etc etc......

Matt we are currently not getting the numbers now. How in the world would we get numbers if we had to raise everything?

Additional costs that NSWCA would have to pay which we do not currently pay:

Electricity, rates, Interest on loan, i'm sure other people can think of things as well.

How would we attract people away from clubs?

Trent Parker
26-08-2005, 10:21 AM
If i ever win a multi million dollar lotto prize i promise to start a chess centre myself :D

pax
26-08-2005, 10:23 AM
Going way back in Mohammadian times people were known to borrow money - I wonder if that practise still continues.


Believe it or not, the amount of money you can borrow is connected to your INCOME. Since NSWCA makes maybe $10k from memberships and probably considerably less than that from other sources, would you like to take a guess at the amount of money a reputable lender will lend? You might buy a small shoebox in Parramatta. If you're lucky.

pax
26-08-2005, 10:33 AM
Malcolm

A brief history of how the MCC secured their current premises, in Fitzroy, (via Elizabeth St and Peel St) would actually be useful for the doubting thomas's in Welshland.
Please treat as priority (so they can move forward in their discussion).

regards
Trevor

Would you care to estimate the difference in real estate prices between Melbourne in 1981 and Sydney in 2005? I reckon you would be looking at a factor of 10 or 15 at least. And the income of chess clubs and associations has probably not increased significantly in that time.

ursogr8
26-08-2005, 11:26 AM
Would you care to estimate the difference in real estate prices between Melbourne in 1981 and Sydney in 2005? I reckon you would be looking at a factor of 10 or 15 at least.
pax

Agreed.


And the income of chess clubs and associations has probably not increased significantly in that time.

The capital obtained by the MCC did not come from income/revenue surpluses as I understand. So the paltry incomes of yesterday and today were not key to financing of the asset.

I hope Malcolm or one of the other very knowlegeable MCC stalwarts will post a history of the plan to accomplish the purchase of their asset.


starter

Ian Rout
26-08-2005, 12:10 PM
Seeing this interchange (the viability of a NSW Chess Centre) could go round and round for ever (and has been doing so, at least for as long as I can remember), how about somebody puts up some actual numbers for costs/revenues, or several somebodies contribute a few part of the equation.

Even if it doesn't answer the question it will at least advance the discussion by showing where the differences in the assumptions are; for instance how much would interest, staffing, operating costs be, how many tournaments would be held at what participation rates and entry fee, what other income would be generated (book sales, coaching, sub-letting etc).

antichrist
26-08-2005, 12:22 PM
How come you all missed the one qualifying sentence reproduced below:

"Providing it is positively geared rental wise one day it will pay itself (with help of donations and wills etc.) and then will be ours to use FOC except for running expenses."

Just like many other investors we rent out 100% after purchasing until paid off as per my original post. The crucial part is the positively geared factor, which after recent price hikes could be difficult to establish.

BUT, with all the sympathy amongst successful businesspeople chessplayers (who knows) we may be able to secure a building on for a discounted price to enable positively geared.

A relo who single-handedly built up an empire told me 35 years ago: if you don't pay interest you won't get anywhere.

How many of you paid interest when purchasing and paying off your home? Hands up now!

bergil
26-08-2005, 12:26 PM
Malcolm

A brief history of how the MCC secured their current premises, in Fitzroy, (via Elizabeth St and Peel St) would actually be useful for the doubting thomas's in Welshland.
Please treat as priority (so they can move forward in their discussion).

regards
Trevor

ps In the mean-time, bergil could read here (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~chessmel/history.html), and look at the interior here. (http://home.vicnet.net.au/~chessmel/gallery.html)
Thanks but that didn't say much. C'mon show us the money raised and given and how much the property cost. The income needed to maintain and run your centre.

Its all well and good to say, we did it why can't you! Give the full story and then tell us what you charge your members to play.

For example at Rooty Hill
costs:
$5.50 to join the RSL
$25 to be a member the first year $20 every year after that (includes the NSWCA $25 membership fee)
$30 to play in the Rooty Hill open
$0 to play at the club even if your not a member
Total:$60.50 less $5 for who are not 1st year members

Competition games:
Western Suburbs Chess Premiership 7-10weeks (rated)
Sydney Inter Club Grade Matches 7-11weeks (rated)
Rooty Hill open 7weeks (rated)
Rooty Hill Club Championship 7weeks (rated)
Western Suburbs Rapid Challenge 2 weeks (unrated but that may change)
Club Lightning Championship
Handicap Lightning
and other rapids and alegros

Have a look at their great web site www.rootyhillchess.org

ursogr8
26-08-2005, 02:50 PM
Thanks but that didn't say much. C'mon show us the money raised and given and how much the property cost. The income needed to maintain and run your centre.

Its all well and good to say, we did it why can't you! Give the full story and then tell us what you charge your members to play.

<snip>

bergil

It would be presumptuous of me to give a third hand account of their success story. MCC is not my Club (I am at Box Hill instead), and the wondrous story of how MCC obtained their current premises needs to be told first hand by folk such as Edwin Malitis, Justice Bob Brooking or Gary Wastell.
The bb's 'macavity' would be another good candidate, and perhaps firegoat7 (since he has been a leader in current renovations).

Incidentally, the venue story, may even be written already in the History of the MCC, a booklet mentioned in the previous links I gave.

I don't recall writing "we did it why can't you", as you suggest I said.
The line I have been informing about is that the "MCC did it".

starter

Trent Parker
26-08-2005, 03:33 PM
How come you all missed the one qualifying sentence reproduced below:

"Providing it is positively geared rental wise one day it will pay itself (with help of donations and wills etc.) and then will be ours to use FOC except for running expenses." First you have to get a loan. Derrr
Do you really think that the NSWCA or the NSW Chess public are going to be able to show to the banks "here, here is a steady stream of income to prove that we can pay our payments"? Somehow..... I..... Don't.....Think...... So.
Donations and wills won't cut it unless it is a freakin' huge amount.

PHAT
26-08-2005, 04:16 PM
If i ever win a multi million dollar lotto prize i promise to start a chess centre myself :D

Me too :D

Libby
26-08-2005, 04:34 PM
ACTJCL has a home now. We can run as many weekend events as we like, school holiday activities, some weekday (daytime) activities and potentially could run afternoon or evening weekday activities.

We pay $2000 a year for this. We have a kitchen, male & female toilets and access to a foyer area which is itself large enough to accommodate around 40 players. We have a storeroom in which we keep all our papers & equipment.

Setting up time for an event of around 80 players (bringing our tables out from the storeroom, putting out chairs, sets, clocks etc) about 30-45mins at the start of the day and maybe less with extra assistance at the end.

This is a highly suitable arrangement for us, made with a local high school. Why would we want to tie up all our money (not just capital, but our actual income) in a real estate asset? It's not like ACTJCL will die and leave it to our children? ACTJCL can't downsize when it retires and take a world cruise with the capital gain?

I'm saying the idea of owning premises is a complete folly but I'm not sure what the gain really is? What do you want and how is that a growth-promoting asset?

In the ACT a single central venue for junior chess works particularly well. We are a single city and everyone can get to our venue in about 20mins.

How does a Sydney CBD premises grow chess in Newcastle, or Wollongong, or Dubbo, or Bega?

Where exactly will you locate the property to attract a greater number of players? Won't you just be here sniping at one another about how much better it would have been if it was in Rooty Hill, or Parramatta, or Cronulla or Penrith?

MCC having their own premises obviously works well for them but the big growth club seems to be Box Hill at the moment. (And I'm not sledging MCC at all, just wondering how a premises = growth = profile).

The Vikings Club (where Kayleigh plays) provide a free venue on Monday nights for regular club play, a free venue for Saturday junior coaching and a free venue for their Vikings Weekender. What's more, the have a regular glossy news brochure which is letterboxed throughout the area. The achievements of the chessplayers received as much space in that (provided they are given the information) as any other affiliated minor sport. (No, we can't match the Rugby attention.)

Chess needs to get professional about the way it is run, about the way it is promoted and about the way it develops the game outside of the major city centres. Is buying property the best investment you can make towards those ends?

antichrist
26-08-2005, 06:19 PM
First you have to get a loan. Derrr
Do you really think that the NSWCA or the NSW Chess public are going to be able to show to the banks "here, here is a steady stream of income to prove that we can pay our payments"? Somehow..... I..... Don't.....Think...... So.
Donations and wills won't cut it unless it is a freakin' huge amount.

God all bloody mighty - again you miss the punchline - didn't you just finish an accountancy course from what I gather?

The bloody property can be positively geared rental wise - we can show the fiance people this, we can provide guarantees from members as well, the bank will have the mortgage so we can't renege, what part don't you understand.

With goodwill in the business/chess community we should be able to achieve 100% tenancy, with all the successful business chessplayers we should be able to achieve guarantees.

Maybe Peter Parr could rent from us and provide a guarantee that will do so for so many years.

I enquired from a finance co re this about ten years ago for another assoc and initial response was that it would be a goer.

There is goodwill out there but we do not tap into it. Tinpot atheist mobs have their own premises so why can't chess with hundreds of members and thousands of players.

PHAT
26-08-2005, 11:03 PM
Believe it or not, the amount of money you can borrow is connected to your INCOME. Since NSWCA makes maybe $10k from memberships and probably considerably less than that from other sources, would you like to take a guess at the amount of money a reputable lender will lend? You might buy a small shoebox in Parramatta. If you're lucky.

Look. The following is a matter of record.

Peter Parr offered to provide NSWCA 200 sqm rent free if they and JCL would garrentee to run all their events in it at a per event/day rate of $X, being the going rate for chees events in the past.

PP was able to make this offer because he, as a long time chess retailer/organiser, add a business plan that said it was a goer. It included internet cafe and gaming, retail chess stuff, coaching facilities et cetera.

Now, PAX, mate, why would he put this to the NSWCA if he though he would lose his shirt. If you want to say PP is a cretin that is up to you. I, on the other hand, reckon that he has the runs on the board.

BTW, PM me and tell me who you are, thanks.

Bill Gletsos
26-08-2005, 11:13 PM
Look. The following is a matter of record.Totally incorrect. As usual you are misreprsenting the facts.


Peter Parr offered to provide NSWCA 200 sqm rent free if they and JCL would garrentee to run all their events in it at a per event/day rate of $X, being the going rate for chees events in the past.At no stage did Peter make any such offer to the NSWCA or to me directly.

PHAT
26-08-2005, 11:17 PM
We pay $2000 a year for this. We have a kitchen, male & female toilets and access to a foyer area which is itself large enough to accommodate around 40 players. We have a storeroom in which we keep all our papers & equipment.

But it isn't YOURS. You are still renters.


Why would we want to tie up all our money (not just capital, but our actual income) in a real estate asset? But YOU don't have any money to tie up. :lol:


It's not like ACTJCL will die and leave it to our children?

No no no. It Will beleft to future chess players.


How does a Sydney CBD premises grow chess in Newcastle, or Wollongong, or Dubbo, or Bega?

It doesn't initially. Later, it becomes a hub a Mecca a home and place of pride.


Where exactly will you locate the property to attract a greater number of players? Won't you just be here sniping at one another about how much better it would have been if it was in Rooty Hill, or Parramatta, or Cronulla or Penrith?

Thorny question. Either at a transport hub - eg Sydney's Central Station or Parramatta - the demographic centre of Sydney


Chess needs to get professional about the way it is run, about the way it is promoted and about the way it develops the game outside of the major city centres. Is buying property the best investment you can make towards those ends?

Having a professionaly run and promoted SCC cannot harm Sydney chess. I agree that the Newcastles and Wollongongs and Dubbos are not initially served by a SCC. However, by growing a huge chess scene in a high population density place - Sydney - a larger voluteer and dollar base is created, with which to go to the regions and grow chess there.

Libby, it is a big vision thing. The current NSWCA council are just not up to handling the excitement.

PHAT
26-08-2005, 11:20 PM
Totally incorrect. As usual you are misreprsenting the facts.

At no stage did Peter make any such offer to the NSWCA or to me directly.

Oh no :rolleyes:

Please stay away from this perfectly civil discussion. Please don't turn it toxic. :(

Bill Gletsos
26-08-2005, 11:22 PM
Oh no :rolleyes:

Please stay away from this perfectly civil discussion. Please don't turn it toxic. :(Then stop misrepresenting the facts.

PHAT
26-08-2005, 11:27 PM
Then stop misrepresenting the facts.
You provide the "facts" and I won't be able to "misrepresent them." So, please stay away with your venum, unless you have some facts to contribute.

Bill Gletsos
26-08-2005, 11:29 PM
You provide the "facts" and I won't be able to "misrepresent them." So, please stay away with your venum, unless you have some facts to contribute.The facts were provided back in early December when you made this false claim the first time around 8th December.
It was false then and it is false now.

PHAT
26-08-2005, 11:42 PM
The facts were provided back in early December when you made this false claim the first time around 8th December.
It was false then and it is false now.
Prove it.

Bill Gletsos
26-08-2005, 11:46 PM
Prove it.I proved what you said was wrong back at the time.

All you are doing is yet again making false statements, based on no facts whatsoever.
Then again what else is new.

themovingman
27-08-2005, 12:06 AM
Look. The following is a matter of record.

wow ! Not that I doubt your memory ; but could you show us this record or pointers to it so we could quote from the source ?

Peter Parr offered to provide NSWCA 200 sqm rent free if they and JCL would garrentee to run all their events in it at a per event/day rate of $X, being the going rate for chees events in the past.

PP was able to make this offer because he, as a long time chess retailer/organiser, add a business plan that said it was a goer. It included internet cafe and gaming, retail chess stuff, coaching facilities et cetera.

Now, PAX, mate, why would he put this to the NSWCA if he though he would lose his shirt. If you want to say PP is a cretin that is up to you. I, on the other hand, reckon that he has the runs on the board.

BTW, PM me and tell me who you are, thanks.

PHAT
27-08-2005, 12:38 AM
wow ! Not that I doubt your memory ; but could you show us this record or pointers to it so we could quote from the source ?

The minutes of the NSWCA 2004 "The Chairman advised that Peter Parr had asked that it be let known at the Meeting that he is interested in being informed of premises of approximately 250 square metres for $1.1m in or near the CDB."

Obviously there was more than just this said.

Parr has also put a "rent upstairs for events and get the rest of the time free" type deal to the NSWCA. Parr put it in writing and the NSWCA has a copy of the letter/email.

Don't trust me, don't trust Bill, ask Peter Parr. The truth is out there and it is starting to hurt.

Bill Gletsos
27-08-2005, 12:51 AM
The minutes of the NSWCA 2004 "The Chairman advised that Peter Parr had asked that it be let known at the Meeting that he is interested in being informed of premises of approximately 250 square metres for $1.1m in or near the CDB."This is correct.

Obviously there was more than just this said.

Parr has also put a "rent upstairs for events and get the rest of the time free" type deal to the NSWCA. Parr put it in writing and the NSWCA has a copy of the letter/email.This is totally incorrect.
Peter made the offer on the 29th July to pay 50% of the rent ($32,000 per annum rent) in an email to the NSWCA. The NSWCA/NSWJCL would pay the other 50%.
He repeated this offer in another email on September 6th. He mentioned it again in an email on the 18th October.
At no stage has he suggested to Council that he would pay all the rent.
Peter at no stage suggested to me that he would pay all of the rent even when I spoke the week before the AGM.
Peter did suggest to me that he was considering setting up a chess centre of his own and made no mention of any NSWCA involvement, including nothing about the NSWCA running any events there. He asked me to ask the members at the AGM about suitable venues of a certain floor space and a certain cost.

When I spoke to him the week after the AGM he informed me he was considering continuing his lease of the basement and also leasing the ground floor of his current premises.

At no time whilst Peter was discussing with me running his own chess centre did he request the NSWCA run events at his centre. In fact at no time did he imply or state that he was only considering his own chess centre on the understanding/proviso that the NSWCA/NSWJCL would run its events there.
That was never mentioned.

I was the one who mentioned that the Council may be prepared to run some weekenders there. Peter did not in reponse to this say that all NSWCA weekender events would need to be held there.


Don't trust me, don't trust Bill, ask Peter Parr. The truth is out there and it is starting to hurt.Parr stated last time you spread this story that you misreprsented what he said to you.

PHAT
27-08-2005, 01:40 AM
Peter did suggest to me that he was considering setting up a chess centre of his own and made no mention of any NSWCA involvement, including nothing about the NSWCA running any events there. He asked me to ask the members at the AGM about suitable venues of a certain floor space and a certain cost. - [bold by MS]

:lol: and it was not put it to the AGM, was it. :naughty:


When I spoke to him the week after the AGM he informed me he was considering continuing his lease of the basement and also leasing the ground floor of his current premises.

At no time whilst Peter was discussing with me running his own chess centre did he request the NSWCA run events at his centre. In fact at no time did he imply or state that he was only considering his own chess centre on the understanding/proviso that the NSWCA/NSWJCL would run its events there.
That was never mentioned.

I don't believe this version and nor, I think, does anyone else.


I was the one who mentioned that the Council may be prepared to run some weekenders there. Peter did not in reponse to this say that all NSWCA weekender events would need to be held there.

Ho ho ho. Now you are trying to make it sound like the NSWCA are the knights in shining armour offerng good deeds to humble retailers. Come off the grass. The NSWCA has snubbed Peter Parr's generous offer to put a SCC on the map, with a little cooperation from the NSWCA.


Parr stated last time you spread this story that you misreprsented what he said to you.
Prove it. And I don't mean by quoting your recall.

jase
27-08-2005, 03:01 AM
I am very well versed in the minutiae of developments in recent years regarding a chess centre in the centre of Sydney. I have inspected property with Peter Parr and have supported the concept of such a space.

I concur with the view that the NSWCA Council has dragged its heels on this topic, in line with the more general view that there is a lack of initiative. However the current reserves are a long way short of what is required to secure an appropriate space at this time.

Matt has continually misrepresented fundamental aspects of proposals of this nature that have arisen in recent years. When the opportunity arose for Matt to take a leading role in the establishment of a chess centre, he shirked the task. When he sprouts about 200m2 venues in Mary St for $20K p/a and is asked for detail, he declines (http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=63080#post63080). It's a continual round of diatribe without the calibre for action.

It would be terrific to have a good chess centre in Sydney. Nobody is arguing that point. However Libby made some excellent points about whether such a venture would be the best use of resources. The NSWCA Council clearly do not think so. Ditto the NSWJCL. Matt's got nothing but vendettas. And if you've been to Peter Parr's shop in the past decade, you might like to consider the likelihood of Peter ever moving ... :ermm:

bergil
27-08-2005, 03:21 AM
Once again your reasoning is unsound. :hand: Instead of convincing anyone the chess centre is viable, you choose to rant about the NSWCA. :wall:

You said to Libby that "But it isn't yours, you are still renters" but the Parr offer you bang on about was a lease agreement! :eek:

Once again you open your mouth and some idiot speaks. :owned:

Libby
27-08-2005, 09:20 AM
But it isn't YOURS. You are still renters.

And happily so. I find it hard to imagine we could own premises for a similar annual expense. Security, maintenance, cleaning, insurance etc is all someone else's issue.

What's more, we have a venue with outdoor space for children to run about in between games and one which comfortably caters for the up to 160+ children we attract at some activities.


But YOU don't have any money to tie up. :lol: And you know what? We don't have $80K but our bank balance has quadrupled in the last few years and shows no sign of slowing down. We are on our way to that kind of figure unless we make adjustments to our way of running things.

Our proposals don't involve tying money up in a real estate asset, rather we look at ways to return more money to our players in a range of subsidised development activities.


No no no. It Will beleft to future chess players.


It doesn't initially. Later, it becomes a hub a Mecca a home and place of pride.

There's nothing wrong with owning your own place but NSWCA is not Sydney Chess Association.

It's obvious MCC are very proud of their premises but show me again how, in real measurable terms, chess will grow because you have a building?

My building is bigger than yours doesn't count ;)


Thorny question. Either at a transport hub - eg Sydney's Central Station or Parramatta - the demographic centre of Sydney

Thorny questions need to be addressed. We see a lot of Sydney whinging on our TVs in Canberra about your traffic, parking & transport issues.

Who will come to play in the CBD who doesn't already?



Having a professionaly run and promoted SCC cannot harm Sydney chess. I agree that the Newcastles and Wollongongs and Dubbos are not initially served by a SCC. However, by growing a huge chess scene in a high population density place - Sydney - a larger voluteer and dollar base is created, with which to go to the regions and grow chess there.

Libby, it is a big vision thing. The current NSWCA council are just not up to handling the excitement.

It's great to have vision. As an administrator, I have heard lots from visionaries. They don't usually come to meetings and they don't usually put their hand up to do anything. They tend to have visions about how inept the current people are and what they really should be doing.

So those who really do have the vision, and the motivation to get the job done, often can't because they are consumed with the more mundane tasks of running the organisation.

I have often had sympathy for your position Matt but would like to know more about what you have done in your club/region with your ideas.

I've said before, you can be a leader in debate and direction by demonstrating the success of your ideas - not just spouting them.

Garvinator
27-08-2005, 01:53 PM
Who will come to play in the CBD who doesn't already?
I gave recently some thoughts on some good points about why a chess centre is needed, but no one asked if I had thoughts in the negative. This would be one of them. A chess centre in the CBD would be a bad idea. Not only are the rent/lease/buying costs going to be much higher, most people live in the more western areas of sydney. It would seem to me that locating the chess centre out there somewhere would be a better idea. The nswjcl are at lidcombe.

Bill Gletsos
27-08-2005, 03:14 PM
:lol: and it was not put it to the AGM, was it. :naughty:You really cannot seem to hold a thought for more than a few seconds. You just quoted in post #81 in this thread that:

The minutes of the NSWCA 2004 "The Chairman advised that Peter Parr had asked that it be let known at the Meeting that he is interested in being informed of premises of approximately 250 square metres for $1.1m in or near the CDB."That sure sounds like "He [Peter] asked me [Bill] to ask the members at the AGM about suitable venues of a certain floor space and a certain cost." and as the minutes show I did.

I don't believe this version and nor, I think, does anyone else.If anyone should not be believed it is you. You have no credibility whatsoever.

Ho ho ho. Now you are trying to make it sound like the NSWCA are the knights in shining armour offerng good deeds to humble retailers.I would suggest the humble retailer has far more assets than the NSWCA.

Come off the grass. The NSWCA has snubbed Peter Parr's generous offer to put a SCC on the map, with a little cooperation from the NSWCA.He made no such offer to the NSWCA. His only offer to the NSWCA involved the NSWCA/NSWJCL paying 50% of the lease.

Prove it. And I don't mean by quoting your recall.How about you prove your so called matter of record in post #70. i wont hold my breath.
It is as usual just you on one of your beatups.

PHAT
27-08-2005, 05:00 PM
I am very well versed in the minutiae of developments in recent years regarding a chess centre in the centre of Sydney. I have inspected property with Peter Parr and have supported the concept of such a space.

I concur with the view that the NSWCA Council has dragged its heels on this topic, in line with the more general view that there is a lack of initiative.

:clap:


However the current reserves are a long way short of what is required to secure an appropriate space at this time.[quote]

Not necessarily.

[quote]Matt has continually misrepresented fundamental aspects of proposals of this nature that have arisen in recent years.

It is just shades of grey, not black and white.


When the opportunity arose for Matt to take a leading role in the establishment of a chess centre, he shirked the task.

Sacked without warning, Jase.


When he sprouts about 200m2 venues in Mary St for $20K p/a and is asked for detail, he declines (http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=63080#post63080).

Sorry I missed that post! I will PM the details to you right now.

It would be terrific to have a good chess centre in Sydney. Nobody is arguing that point. However Libby made some excellent points about whether such a venture would be the best use of resources. The NSWCA Council clearly do not think so. Ditto the NSWJCL.

I started this way before I had reason to have a vendetta. But for what it's worth, I am too lazy to sustain a vendetta longer than a month without renewal of reason.:cool:

Libby
27-08-2005, 05:09 PM
I gave recently some thoughts on some good points about why a chess centre is needed, but no one asked if I had thoughts in the negative. This would be one of them. A chess centre in the CBD would be a bad idea. Not only are the rent/lease/buying costs going to be much higher, most people live in the more western areas of sydney. It would seem to me that locating the chess centre out there somewhere would be a better idea. The nswjcl are at lidcombe.

The problem there is immediately, you are removing yourself from a central location. More convenient for some, less so for others.

A regular weekly commitment to chess is made at local chess clubs. Who is your clientele for a chess centre?

NSW, like QLD, is a big state. How about creating a set of guidelines for the conduct of school & club chess? Accreditation like this is common in many sports. Being a 2 star, 3 star or 4 star club might win you a NSWCA "grant". It could be a cash grant but could be a kit of equipment (chess equipment, clocks etc or even items like laptops, software like MYOB for the treasurer).

Encourage your club & regional network to grow chess in their area, or assist "start-up" clubs. Increase "star" ratings by meeting "best practice" in administration, planning and conduct but also for providing value-added services like junior coaching & school development.

bergil
09-10-2005, 02:08 PM
Was looking through old treads and started reading this one again, I think we can all see that a Sydney Chess Club is not a viable option for the NSWCA unless someone gives them a truck load of money or leaves them a place. End of discussion, agreed?

antichrist
09-10-2005, 02:34 PM
Was looking through old treads and started reading this one again, I think we can all see that a Sydney Chess Club is not a viable option for the NSWCA unless someone gives them a truck load of money or leaves them a place. End of discussion, agreed?

Not necessarily. They could have purchased a place with a mortagage about five years ago, before the price rises, the rent could have made the venture positively geared which eventually means we would have eventually owned it, and with inflation would have been a great winner.

Now we may need a discounted purchase price by a sympathising vendor due to the price rises.

PHAT
09-10-2005, 09:33 PM
... Sydney Chess Club is not a viable option for the NSWCA unless someone gives them a truck load of money or leaves them a place. End of discussion, agreed?

Not an END, just a hiatus. That truck load is not an impossiblity. Therefore, the NSWCA had better be ready to welcome the trucky if/when he comes. At the moment, NSWCA bears no truck with trucks and the truckies are persona non grata.

bergil
10-10-2005, 12:57 AM
Not an END, just a hiatus. That truck load is not an impossiblity. Therefore, the NSWCA had better be ready to welcome the trucky if/when he comes. At the moment, NSWCA bears no truck with trucks and the truckies are persona non grata.
Yes but without the truck load of free money or sombody gifting them a property the issue is dead. Agreed?

pull_my_finger
10-10-2005, 12:33 PM
Not an END, just a hiatus. That truck load is not an impossiblity. Therefore, the NSWCA had better be ready to welcome the trucky if/when he comes. At the moment, NSWCA bears no truck with trucks and the truckies are persona non grata.
Yeah right but the truck load that you peddle we don't need, try sending it to a farm where it'll do some good!! :owned:

PHAT
10-10-2005, 04:28 PM
Agreed?

No, just not yet. There is one last avenue that I am persuing involving the NSW Government and spare space. If that fizzes, then yes, it will be in longterm hibernation.

PHAT
10-10-2005, 04:31 PM
Yeah right but the truck load that you peddle we don't need, try sending it to a farm where it'll do some good!! :owned:

Better than peddling your brand of gutless anonomous opinions.

bergil
10-10-2005, 04:43 PM
No, just not yet. There is one last avenue that I am persuing involving the NSW Government and spare space. If that fizzes, then yes, it will be in longterm hibernation.
C'mon do tell, what's the story?

PHAT
10-10-2005, 05:08 PM
C'mon do tell, what's the story?

The NSW Gov has a shitload of empty office space in a place halfway between the Sydney CBD and Paramatta, that they have been giving to various community groups such as the Scouts. Why not us too?

Brian_Jones
11-10-2005, 09:42 AM
The NSW Gov has a shitload of empty office space in a place halfway between the Sydney CBD and Paramatta, that they have been giving to various community groups such as the Scouts. Why not us too?

Sounds like a good opportunity. Don't cock this one up Matt!

pull_my_finger
11-10-2005, 01:36 PM
Sounds like a good opportunity. Don't cock this one up Matt!
Yeah right! :lol: :owned:

PHAT
11-10-2005, 06:30 PM
Sounds like a good opportunity. Don't cock this one up Matt!

My only cockup so far has been with the NSWCA Since "governments" are, by comparison, open and forward thinking entities, ;) , I have a chance of delivering an option that does not currently exist.

PHAT
11-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Yeah right! :lol: :owned:

Suck my finger. :cool:

bergil
11-10-2005, 06:37 PM
My only cockup so far has been with the NSWCA Since "governments" are, by comparison, open and forward thinking entities, ;) , I have a chance of delivering an option that does not currently exist.
Good luck with it. :clap:

pull_my_finger
12-10-2005, 02:29 PM
Suck my finger. :cool:
Your so funny :rolleyes:

arosar
15-10-2005, 11:41 AM
The Hyde Park/Spanish Club "chess club" welcomes FM John Curtis. He seems to be a regular now. Too bad he then has to go back home to the Central Coast at 10-11PM at night!

All are welcome!

AR

jase
16-10-2005, 11:28 PM
I made my way to the Spanish Club shortly after 9pm on Friday night, at Amiel's invitation.

Nil, nada, zip, nothing. Not a chessplayer or a chessboard in sight.

antichrist
16-10-2005, 11:31 PM
I made my way to the Spanish Club shortly after 9pm on Friday night, at Amiel's invitation.

Nil, nada, zip, nothing. Not a chessplayer or a chessboard in sight.

He is slack in his blogg as well.

arosar
16-10-2005, 11:31 PM
Then you didn't look hard enough. We're in the back, in the games room. John Curtis was there.

AR

antichrist
16-10-2005, 11:35 PM
Then you didn't look hard enough. We're in the back, in the games room. John Curtis was there.

AR

Jase could never replace my cousin Backdoor-Benny at the Tigers.

Rincewind
17-10-2005, 07:32 AM
I made my way to the Spanish Club shortly after 9pm on Friday night, at Amiel's invitation.

Nil, nada, zip, nothing. Not a chessplayer or a chessboard in sight.

Are you sure you went to the right Spanish Club?

jase
17-10-2005, 12:37 PM
Are you sure you went to the right Spanish Club?

Quite. Last time I was there I was dancing with a young Filipino acquaintance, whilst Amiel watched on.

four four two
17-10-2005, 12:39 PM
Mmmm,he likes to watch! :lol:

arosar
17-10-2005, 12:53 PM
Mmmm,he likes to watch! :lol:

Mate, I like to be entertained.

AR

four four two
17-10-2005, 02:39 PM
So if there was a chess version of "Dancing with the stars" would Jase be your first pick? :hmm:

PHAT
17-10-2005, 04:06 PM
So if there was a chess version of "Dancing with the stars" would Jase be your first pick? :hmm:

Only if he drinks plonk, mate.

antichrist
17-10-2005, 04:19 PM
Quite. Last time I was there I was dancing with a young Filipono acquaintance, whilst Amiel watched on.

Just for the record was that Filipina or Filipino?

Take care and God bless and safe trip home.