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HAL
25-07-2005, 10:56 PM
Not sure if this question has been asked before. What happens with the rating of games when one of the players has a FIDE rating but no ACF rating?

For example, at the ANU, Mongolian player Batceceg Tuvshintogs played but I don't believe she has an ACF rating. Will these games be rated? And if so, by what mechanism?

brett
25-07-2005, 11:52 PM
I think they actually use the FIDE Rating as the players first rating.

Bill Gletsos
26-07-2005, 09:24 PM
The answer was previously posted at http://www.chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=43898&postcount=5

HAL
26-07-2005, 09:38 PM
If a player is new to the ACF list but has a FIDE rating then their current FIDE rating is used. The RD used for a player is assigned by me depending on a number of factors. e.g. how many total games, how recent was their activity and how many recent games.

This being the case have you yet considered the case of Batceceg Tuvshintogs? She will have (at least) seven rated games in the next period, as she played at the ANU.

Addendum...
According to the FIDE website she played 11 games at Calvia last January and 12 games at the Mongolian National Championships last October.

Bill Gletsos
26-07-2005, 11:45 PM
This being the case have you yet considered the case of Batceceg Tuvshintogs? She will have (at least) seven rated games in the next period, as she played at the ANU.I must have been talking to A/C too much and hence his thickmess (especially regarding rating matters)must has rubbed off as I'm not sure what you are getting at. ;)

If you are asking having I determined what RD I will give her the answer is no.
I normally dont look at those issues until I receive the files from the State Rating Officers.

HAL
27-07-2005, 12:02 AM
If you are asking having I determined what RD I will give her the answer is no.
I normally dont look at those issues until I receive the files from the State Rating Officers.

That was the question I was intending to ask, and your response is reasonable. One would assume though, given 23 FIDE rated games in the last 6-9 months, that a moderate RD might be used.

ursogr8
12-01-2006, 01:14 PM
hi Bill

In your post >

http://chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=83620&postcount=50

could you expand a little to indicate if you meant

a) it is not mathematically possible, or
b) it is not policy of xxx, or
c) the No applies to FIDE ratings calculations, or
d) other.

regards, and HNY to you
starter

Bill Gletsos
12-01-2006, 01:50 PM
hi Bill

In your post >

http://chesschat.org/showpost.php?p=83620&postcount=50

could you expand a little to indicate if you meant

a) it is not mathematically possible, or
b) it is not policy of xxx, or
c) the No applies to FIDE ratings calculations, or
d) other.

regards, and HNY to you
starterb) It isnt ACF policy nor is it at all likely to become policy.
d) I am unaware of any national federation that partially rates events held outside of their juridi***ion.
Partially rating an event could be quite misleading as to the actual performances of the two individual players.
e.g. Player's A and B are equally rated. Player A beats B however over the whole of the event Player A performs below his rating whilst player B performs above it. If the whole event is rated A's rating would drop whilst B's would rise, whereas by only rating their individual game A's would rise and B's would drop.

ursogr8
12-01-2006, 04:43 PM
b) It isnt ACF policy nor is it at all likely to become policy.



Thanks Bill for your response.


d) I am unaware of any national federation that partially rates events held outside of their juridi***ion.

I have a lot confidence that if you thought it was logical to rate a game between Australian players, played under supervised conditions, but not on Australian soil, then you would just go ahead and do it because you were convinced it was the right thing to do. (Just as you have shown 'leadership' in the formulae in the current rating system).
What is done by other Associations would not be barrier to your clear logic if you were so inclined.

Any (supervised) contest betwen two Australian players is a valid data point for consideration of ratings calculation. Whether to include such a data-point (in the quaterley ratings calculations) is a different issue.
I know in the context of golf handicaps there is an obligation on the player to submit all data-points (i.e. the score for a completed round) to the home handicapper; even a round played as a single player (with no independent scorer/marker) is obliged to be submitted for handicapping.

In the case of chess ratings, Data is useful for maintaining relativity between pools of players. Data coming from Begonia, Doeberl, Aus. Champs is particularly useful for this purpose. And I would have thought data coming from Queenstown was also useful.



Partially rating an event could be quite misleading as to the actual performances of the two individual players.
e.g. Player's A and B are equally rated. Player A beats B however over the whole of the event Player A performs below his rating whilst player B performs above it. If the whole event is rated A's rating would drop whilst B's would rise, whereas by only rating their individual game A's would rise and B's would drop.

This bit I disagree with. But I will leave it for the moment.


regards
starter

Bill Gletsos
12-01-2006, 05:07 PM
I have a lot confidence that if you thought it was logical to rate a game between Australian players, played under supervised conditions, but not on Australian soil, then you would just go ahead and do it because you were convinced it was the right thing to do. (Just as you have shown 'leadership' in the formulae in the current rating system).
What is done by other Associations would not be barrier to your clear logic if you were so inclined.Yes, but I happen to agree with them.

Any (supervised) contest betwen two Australian players is a valid data point for consideration of ratings calculation. Whether to include such a data-point (in the quaterley ratings calculations) is a different issue.
I know in the context of golf handicaps there is an obligation on the player to submit all data-points (i.e. the score for a completed round) to the home handicapper; even a round played as a single player (with no independent scorer/marker) is obliged to be submitted for handicapping.

In the case of chess ratings, Data is useful for maintaining relativity between pools of players. Data coming from Begonia, Doeberl, Aus. Champs is particularly useful for this purpose. And I would have thought data coming from Queenstown was also useful.We arent discussing Queenstown. You did not mention it in your question nor was Amiel referring to it in his response to The_Wise_Man and The_Wise_Man was not referring to it in his comment but to rating overseas events in general.

This bit I disagree with. But I will leave it for the moment.Disagree all you like, it wont make you right.

pax
13-01-2006, 03:13 PM
The Irish Chess Federation rates any event, anywhere if notified in advance (i.e if there are Irish players participating). But theirs is a crazy system, that I wouldn't for a moment suggest adopting. The idea makes a moderate amount of sense for Ireland, where many players may play the majority of their games overseas.