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antichrist
26-04-2005, 08:53 AM
It seems the OM is to create a new thread for every little ache and pain so here goes.

To create a good impression with the ladies the other day I gave a rook start, now don't go and look at the crossheets!.

If you had found out what would you have done?

a) Disqualified me for not following rules;

b) Ignored it;

c) Ordered to commence game again;

d) not counted the result

e) if she's a stunner give a queen start instead?

It has occurred earlier in more important circumstances

While we are at it if she's a Stunner-Plus can we offer a loss or must we resign?

Bill Gletsos
26-04-2005, 09:58 AM
Why must you post rubbish like this in the chess threads.
You already post enough rubbish in hte nonchess threads.

antichrist
26-04-2005, 02:32 PM
I was serious, I don't want Big Billy Rotten turning up and blasting me during a game and getting some penalty.

I will take no news as good news and presume as you have not pointed out any penalty there is no penalty and will continue to do.

And taking your advice re Matt's posts, other people may read this thread and assuming the same, then you will be in big strife if they get penalised or if the girl is not a stunner.

Kerry Stead
26-04-2005, 05:21 PM
I'd be inclined to ignore it ... although its a tournament game, so the disqualification for stupidity would come into the equation ...

antichrist
26-04-2005, 05:29 PM
I'd be inclined to ignore it ... although its a tournament game, so the disqualification for stupidity would come into the equation ...

But is stupidity in the rules?

So I do lose a point?

Kerry Stead
26-04-2005, 05:53 PM
But is stupidity in the rules?

So I do lose a point?

There's rules about bringing the game into disrepute ... and I think it could apply to this situation.

Part of the penalties available for the arbiter to use in such a situation is forfeiture of the game, so potentially you could lose the point.

Having said that, something like this is tough to rule on, particularly if the game has already commenced, or even finished before the arbiter becomes aware of the problem.

Why even do something like that in a tournament game Peter?
Can't you save your 'charity' for skittles games?

antichrist
26-04-2005, 06:13 PM
two reasons why. I like excitement which even results in certain moves just to see what happens and I had already played the person before socially and knew she was weakish and I did not want to be like her. My soft spot for females and children. Except for that Feldman woman who insisted on bashing me up time and again at that QVB comp years ago. I wonder why..

Bill Gletsos
27-04-2005, 12:57 AM
There's rules about bringing the game into disrepute ... and I think it could apply to this situation.

Part of the penalties available for the arbiter to use in such a situation is forfeiture of the game, so potentially you could lose the point.

Having said that, something like this is tough to rule on, particularly if the game has already commenced, or even finished before the arbiter becomes aware of the problem.

Why even do something like that in a tournament game Peter?
Can't you save your 'charity' for skittles games?Its far simpler cthan that.
The event is not a handicap event.
As such if the arbiter discovers what A/C has done prior to the gaming finishing the arbiter would be forced to re-establish the position prior to the irregularity. i.e the start.
However since removing pieces as A/c had done is not part of the rules I'd also be inclined to impose some sort of time penalty on A/C for having done so and inform A/C that if he did so again either in this or another game later in the event I would immediately forfeit him.

Kevin Bonham
27-04-2005, 01:13 AM
How could you create a rook start? You can't just take it off the board in a serious game, and if you do, the arbiter should (c) restart the game with a warning then (f) boot you from the event if you do it again.

Throwing games by blunders is a tricky one because it is hard to prove. I've mentioned before a player I know here who tends to throw very blatant draws to females who he is far stronger than. Since I started telling him I was keeping an eye on this stuff he's started having draws under more and more odd circumstances - like getting way ahead on the board then "relaxing" -talking to others outside the room while his game is going and running himself short of time (supposedly by mistake) in doing so.

It's really tricky to police if the player is subtle about it and you can really only deal with those who are stupid enough to make it totally obvious repeatedly.

If you're sure someone is doing it the disrepute rule can be an option, depending on the circumstances. So don't assume you can't be penalised - but some arbiters will simply let it go.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 01:25 AM
Now I know that arbiters are hearless souls that don't have a romantic streak in them.

I actually lost a state title in table tennis as was pitted against a female, wiped her out the first game and then rememebered my mother's words about being gentle to "ladies" so I stopped smashing.

For the first time I am beginning to feel old.

I assume that one cannot offer a loss as is not in rules but it could lead to a resignation if opponent agrees.

Dylan "...who think that life is but a joke..."

Kevin Bonham
27-04-2005, 02:04 AM
I assume that one cannot offer a loss as is not in rules but it could lead to a resignation if opponent agrees.

Correct, there is no mechanism for offering to resign because it is assumed players have no legitimate reason to do this. (Though I can think of players who would have loved to turn down their opponent's resignations so they could demonstrate their brilliant checkmate, or rub the nose of an opponent who had played on too long.)

I'd view anyone saying "I'd resign if you'd like me to, otherwise we can play on" in a tournament with extreme suspicion. It's assumed players are trying to succeed, not fail for ulterior reasons.

Garvinator
27-04-2005, 02:29 AM
surprised no one has questioned how insulted the female would most likely feel in this situation.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 02:43 AM
Correct, there is no mechanism for offering to resign because it is assumed players have no legitimate reason to do this. (Though I can think of players who would have loved to turn down their opponent's resignations so they could demonstrate their brilliant checkmate, or rub the nose of an opponent who had played on too long.)

I'd view anyone saying "I'd resign if you'd like me to, otherwise we can play on" in a tournament with extreme suspicion. It's assumed players are trying to succeed, not fail for ulterior reasons.

At the state rapid play 2 weeks ago in round 1 I was drawn against SEC winner Edgar Bautista who did not show up, however while there was still time on the clock I considered offering him a "loss" as not to jeopodise his comp. I mainly go to comps just for fun even if sometimes I do show potential.

If they are a dumb blond stunner (ohh who said that) the extreme suspicion may not come into it.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 02:49 AM
surprised no one has questioned how insulted the female would most likely feel in this situation.

Well blame another female for that -- my mother, that is how people were brought up in those days. In another life that opponent and I were teammates. Later when I thought about it, I realised it would have been the only state title I would have ever won, also her finance was the national coach (coaching her) whereas I had never had any coaching because he was so ruddy expensive. One lesson being one third of a junior's salary. He drove a Rolls but is still not married. His personality was a bit like one of the straight-jacketists on this board.

RIPI 8

don't call me A/C

Lucena
27-04-2005, 08:51 AM
How could you create a rook start? You can't just take it off the board in a serious game, and if you do, the arbiter should (c) restart the game with a warning then (f) boot you from the event if you do it again.

Throwing games by blunders is a tricky one because it is hard to prove. I've mentioned before a player I know here who tends to throw very blatant draws to females who he is far stronger than. Since I started telling him I was keeping an eye on this stuff he's started having draws under more and more odd circumstances - like getting way ahead on the board then "relaxing" -talking to others outside the room while his game is going and running himself short of time (supposedly by mistake) in doing so.

It's really tricky to police if the player is subtle about it and you can really only deal with those who are stupid enough to make it totally obvious repeatedly.

If you're sure someone is doing it the disrepute rule can be an option, depending on the circumstances. So don't assume you can't be penalised - but some arbiters will simply let it go.

Is the disrepute rule ever used? I know of no cases where it has played any real role.

I'm with Kevin on this one. I would cite(assuming the "rook start" occurred at the start of the game):

Article 7: Irregularities

7.1a. If during a game it is found that the initial position of the pieces was incorrect, the game shall be cancelled and a new game played.

Ian Rout
27-04-2005, 09:28 AM
Like Kevin says, you often can't prove it if a player "blunders" in a clever and subtle manner. In some cases though, they want people to know - it's like the criminal who gets caught because they can't resist bragging in the pub.

If a player has form in this area, as evidenced by, for example, admitting it on a bulletin board, then the arbiter should just apply the boot - people can't be expected to play a serious tournament in such conditions, and it sets an unacceptable example for kids. More generally, organisers should not accept the player's entry in future.

Lucena
27-04-2005, 09:42 AM
Like Kevin says, you often can't prove it if a player "blunders" in a clever and subtle manner. In some cases though, they want people to know - it's like the criminal who gets caught because they can't resist bragging in the pub.

If a player has form in this area, as evidenced by, for example, admitting it on a bulletin board, then the arbiter should just apply the boot - people can't be expected to play a serious tournament in such conditions, and it sets an unacceptable example for kids. More generally, organisers should not accept the player's entry in future.

I was going to ask in my last post but I forgot, does anyone remember there used to be some rule saying "players shall play to the best of their ability" or something like that? I can't find it in the July 1 rules.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 09:56 AM
Like Kevin says, you often can't prove it if a player "blunders" in a clever and subtle manner. In some cases though, they want people to know - it's like the criminal who gets caught because they can't resist bragging in the pub.

If a player has form in this area, as evidenced by, for example, admitting it on a bulletin board, then the arbiter should just apply the boot - people can't be expected to play a serious tournament in such conditions, and it sets an unacceptable example for kids. More generally, organisers should not accept the player's entry in future.

Some might say that it sets an ACceptable and excellent example for juniors. We have had this out before, what sportsmanship and satisfaction can be derived from bashing up a junior (unless its GC) or woman beginner as she was. If they have not won any games yet it can keep them interested in knowing that not everyone wants to just wipe them out and collect points. In table tennis it is common to give a siubstantial weaker player an easy run of about 5 to 8 points just for the thrill of trying to catch them up.

It is just old fashioned redundant chivalry.

Libby
27-04-2005, 01:28 PM
surprised no one has questioned how insulted the female would most likely feel in this situation.

Us females might question how desperate the bloke is who thinks such strategies might lead to the possibility of conversation :rolleyes:

After all, we're not just getting the example of the "pity" draw offer here - we've also got the example of guys who will give points to a better player on gender grounds?!?

Perhaps they think the longer they are at the board, the more likely they are to be found ogling what they weren't invited to :doh:

antichrist
27-04-2005, 02:39 PM
Us females might question how desperate the bloke is who thinks such strategies might lead to the possibility of conversation :rolleyes:

After all, we're not just getting the example of the "pity" draw offer here - we've also got the example of guys who will give points to a better player on gender grounds?!?

Perhaps they think the longer they are at the board, the more likely they are to be found ogling what they weren't invited to :doh:

I don't exactly know what you are getting at, but doesn't matter.

WhiteElephant
27-04-2005, 02:41 PM
Us females might question how desperate the bloke is who thinks such strategies might lead to the possibility of conversation :rolleyes:


A conversation might be worth pawn odds at most I reckon. Antichrist is talking rook odds here.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 02:46 PM
A conversation might be worth pawn odds at most I reckon. Antichrist is talking rook odds here.

How far wil a queen and two rooks get me?

WhiteElephant
27-04-2005, 02:52 PM
How far wil a queen and two rooks get me?

A slap if you're unlucky.

Or if you're lucky....

Spiny Norman
27-04-2005, 02:53 PM
How far wil a queen and two rooks get me?

You'll just get to a lost endgame faster ... :owned:

Libby
27-04-2005, 04:47 PM
You'll just get to a lost endgame faster ... :owned:

Pay that one.

If antichrist was having trouble with my meaning, I was wondering if this behaviour was the chess equivalent of a pick-up line? Because (although this motivation is most dubious) no other motivation cuts the mustard.

Give the girls a bit more credit please! I can subscribe to your theory of cutting girls or littlies a bit of slack when I'm playing my 6-year old with no clue in a non-competition game. In real competition, it's doing nobody any favours and one day it may even discourage another girl/boy/child/senior citizen who may otherwise have won a prize except for the insertion of this random & undeserved result.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 06:17 PM
Well Libby,
Come clean, what has been your best offer and how sweet was the honeypot? Otherwise we will think it is just sour grapes.

Libby
27-04-2005, 06:24 PM
Well Libby,
Come clean, what has been your best offer and how sweet was the honeypot? Otherwise we will think it is just sour grapes.

Having been married 18 years :eek: :eek: (and happy to be so), that was the best offer.

All others get :rolleyes: . I imagine any girl trying to improve her game would similarly :rolleyes: if she was being patronised by anyone throwing a game to them.

antichrist
27-04-2005, 06:44 PM
No, I still beat her, only gave her a chance. Ohhh, that was my mistake why I didn't get anywhere.

If Ms Feldman tossed me a piece or a game I would not knock it back or feel patronised. I may feel upset though if a low cut put me off my game. That's a below the belt move. Unless it led to a "better" game Sunshine.

Kevin Bonham
28-04-2005, 08:37 PM
If antichrist was having trouble with my meaning, I was wondering if this behaviour was the chess equivalent of a pick-up line?

That was what I was wondering too. In extreme cases it could even be a form of sexual harassment.

Is there actually any evidence at all that such a method of seduction works rather than just causing the female player to think "who is this idiot!" ?

Lucena
28-04-2005, 09:15 PM
I heard there was some game a former world championship contender played when he got a completely winning position and then offered a draw or deliberately made a losing move or something because he couldn't bring himself to beat such a lovely young lady. Dunno if it's true but sounds like pretty feeble behaviour to me.

Who here has read "How To Cheat At Chess"? Or the sequel?

antichrist
29-04-2005, 05:42 PM
Gareth, sorry to be always contradicting you but it sounds spot on to me.


You must remember also that in the olden days (like myself) we were taught to be gentle to women. Even hobos and drunks still kept their manners. You would not even say ruddy in front of a woman. repeating myself.

Now many youngsters swear profanely out in public. Even myself, Mr. Double-Meaning, do not like it.

antichrist
29-04-2005, 05:44 PM
That was what I was wondering too. In extreme cases it could even be a form of sexual harassment.

Is there actually any evidence at all that such a method of seduction works rather than just causing the female player to think "who is this idiot!" ?

KB, you have got it out of me, she slipped me her phone no. on the score sheet.

koltara
15-07-2005, 12:16 AM
could it be that you lost fair and square but now want to appear to be a stronger player than you really are by claiming to loose on purpose because she is a lady. Her rating obviously makes your explanation plausible.
Believe me that if you think that it is embarassing to loose to some players then during the game you will not be able to concentrate as well as when you play you just think of your opponent as a chess player regardless of their age or gender and you will not play as well.
Then again if you don't really care about your game...
But then why bother?

antichrist
15-07-2005, 01:26 PM
Koltara, you are certainly going back in time bringing this one up.

You remind me of FG7, who brings whole new scenarios of philosohphising and intellectualising into it when it is so simple.

Also FG did the same thing on that PNG issue in Corby debate, came in months later after returning from a politically correct revivalist meeting.

If you noticed my last post it did not end there. The person in question and myself now have a bambino on the way - isn't that sweet? All because of a simple rook odds.

Jealousy is a curse.

Alan Shore
16-07-2005, 01:33 AM
Haha, AC you've got some good moves.. a toast to you.

Thunderspirit
18-07-2005, 12:58 PM
It seems the OM is to create a new thread for every little ache and pain so here goes.

To create a good impression with the ladies the other day I gave a rook start, now don't go and look at the crossheets!.

If you had found out what would you have done?

a) Disqualified me for not following rules;

b) Ignored it;

c) Ordered to commence game again;

d) not counted the result

e) if she's a stunner give a queen start instead?

It has occurred earlier in more important circumstances

While we are at it if she's a Stunner-Plus can we offer a loss or must we resign?


f) Tied up your hands, so you couldn't post another pointless thread on this site.

antichrist
18-07-2005, 04:51 PM
f) Tied up your hands, so you couldn't post another pointless thread on this site.

Don't be so serious Lib. This thread proved genuine, informative and funny - all in one without any rudeness until you come along - ages after the show was already over. Get a life.

Thunderspirit
18-07-2005, 06:43 PM
I believe that I have a good sense of humour. I'm probably not alone when I say some of your posts are painful to read and pointless. If you did it in an event I ran, I would forfiet you. It's a simple matter of the rules, and any intelligent woman would probably resent such a feeble attempt to 'impress' them.

As for getting life... any idea where I can get one from??

HAL
18-07-2005, 07:46 PM
Lee,

you're right anitchrist's posts are invariable self-absorbed. However, with regards your post resurrecting life into this hackneyed old thread, the phrase l'esprit d'escalier does come to mind. ;)

antichrist
18-07-2005, 11:00 PM
I believe that I have a good sense of humour. I'm probably not alone when I say some of your posts are painful to read and pointless. If you did it in an event I ran, I would forfiet you. It's a simple matter of the rules, and any intelligent woman would probably resent such a feeble attempt to 'impress' them.

As for getting life... any idea where I can get one from??

I don't dispute some of my posts, if not many, are painful etc. but this thread eventually ended up better than that.

Like chess I speculate when creating a thread. Sometimes painful and fizzers and sometimes they take off. I can not judge myself when creating, they often go opposite to my prediction.

This one had humour in spite of you thinking otherwise. And those nodding off threads could easily have ended up hopeless but they got a life of their own and were terrific.

You can't expect me to produce winners or please every one every time. Just ignore what you do not like. I do it with many threads - esp about sport and music.

When you think of it is easy, just don't read any of my threads.

Concernng this thread and my posts in general, don't believe everythng I state, much of it is to provoke for humour or otherwise.