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arosar
18-04-2005, 07:23 PM
I don't know what to make of this. I can't say anything. I'm just too distracted.

http://www.1wcbc.com/main.htm

AR

jase
18-04-2005, 08:01 PM
It comes as little surprise that you would be the one to be posting about the beauty contest Amiel!

These guys are like Sam Sloan groupies. What I find remarkable is the line-up - I don't refer to the talent, which is plentiful - but that so many highly ranked female players have entered themselves.

Garvinator
18-04-2005, 08:27 PM
It comes as little surprise that you would be the one to be posting about the beauty contest Amiel!

These guys are like Sam Sloan groupies. What I find remarkable is the line-up - I don't refer to the talent, which is plentiful - but that so many highly ranked female players have entered themselves.
and that if you click on the wcbc link, there is arianne caoili, shannon oliver and anastasia sorokina ;)

arosar
18-04-2005, 08:43 PM
After reading comments on that site I'm now regretting posting that link.

AR

Kevin Bonham
19-04-2005, 02:03 AM
There really should be a male equivalent.

I've got a self-portrait I'd love to see go head-to-head with jase's black nails shot, just for laughs. :lol:

jase
19-04-2005, 02:45 AM
Just quietly, when I was directed to this site a few days ago, I did a little research about it's potentially sexist slant [including reading a piece by US Women's Champ Jennifer Shahade, who made some very critical comments].

I noted that the rules specify the entrants to be female. I was mildly indignant at this and immediately texted back to Arianne that I would be dressing up and entering forthwith!

I really do think to have any chance of them allowing my entry I'm going to have to dress up in drag :eek:

Recherchť
19-04-2005, 10:38 AM
I've never liked the idea behind beauty contests, and I don't see why this one would be any different in that regard to all the others.

What I find remarkable is the line-up - I don't refer to the talent, which is plentiful - but that so many highly ranked female players have entered themselves.

What makes you think those people are entering themselves? Isn't it more likely others are doing it?

WhiteElephant
19-04-2005, 10:52 AM
Just quietly, when I was directed to this site a few days ago, I did a little research about it's potentially sexist slant [including reading a piece by US Women's Champ Jennifer Shahade, who made some very critical comments].
[/COLOR]

Jennifer Shahade is so against women being judged on their looks and yet she:

1) Frequently participates in exhibition matches where she gets glammed up, including wearing a variety of wigs and outfits which accentuate her looks.
2) Makes front covers of chess-related and non chess-related magazines, probably not just for her chess talent

Her career benefits in many ways from her looks so it seems a little incongruous that she is so strongly opposed to this site.

arosar
19-04-2005, 11:55 AM
What makes you think those people are entering themselves? Isn't it more likely others are doing it?

I wondered about the same. But I believe the contestants entered themselves.

AR

pballard
19-04-2005, 11:57 AM
Jennifer Shahade is so against women being judged on their looks and yet she:

1) Frequently participates in exhibition matches where she gets glammed up, including wearing a variety of wigs and outfits which accentuate her looks.
2) Makes front covers of chess-related and non chess-related magazines, probably not just for her chess talent

Her career benefits in many ways from her looks so it seems a little incongruous that she is so strongly opposed to this site.

Eh?

It is one thing to dress up and look good, even for the cover of a magazine.

It is quite another thing to compare and rank women (or men) on their looks.

--
Peter

WhiteElephant
19-04-2005, 02:04 PM
With so many doomsayers and conservatives, it's no wonder chess isn't attracting the big sponsorship dollars other sports are.

Duff McKagan
19-04-2005, 03:07 PM
Eh?

It is one thing to dress up and look good, even for the cover of a magazine.

It is quite another thing to compare and rank women (or men) on their looks.

--
Peter

We rank people by brain ability (inherited) - university entry (industry determined importance)
We rank people by bravery (inherited) - war medals (lore determined standard)
We rank poeple by personality (inherited) - politics (morally determined preference)
We rank people by physique (inherited) - porn star (culturally determined fashion)
We rank people by metabolism (inherited) - Olympic games (arbitrarily determined sports)

Then people like YOU come along and say "OOoooo. No no no. Can't rank people on how well their face conforms to the cultural and or instinctual parameters of beauty. :rolleyes:

Given the choice, I would choose to be good looking, and for my main squeeze to be even better. If you think being ugly and/or bedding ugly is OK, I can tell you from experience on both sides, that it aint so.

Get over yourself and learn to appreciate the beauty of females regardless of their personality. It is OK to be a randy little bastard. It is normal. :hand:

Cheers

Rincewind
19-04-2005, 03:24 PM
I'm not coming from an informed position but thought the issue might be more the case of Jennifer Shahade expoiting her own looks for the betterment of Jennifer Shahade is one thing, exploit our own abilities and talents for gain is something we do every day. However, if the organisers of this event are exploiting the looks and interest in chess players for their own gain then that is a different sort of exploitation all together. But like I said, this is coming from a position of self-confessed ignorance.

Duff McKagan
19-04-2005, 05:48 PM
... the case of Jennifer Shahade expoiting her own looks for the betterment of Jennifer Shahade [or] the organisers of this event are exploiting the looks and interest in chess players for their own gain ...

Define "exploit" and show how the definition can fit both circumstances. I doubt that you can. Therefore, the comparison is not valid and cannot elucidate a difference.

Furthermore, even if one person exploits the beauty of another, it is not illegal. If it were, capital free market economics would be in deep do-do. Are you sure, Rinso, you want to bring down the ideologies that support Western economies for the sake of banning a beauty contest? :wink:

Cheers

Rincewind
19-04-2005, 06:23 PM
Define "exploit" and show how the definition can fit both circumstances. I doubt that you can. Therefore, the comparison is not valid and cannot elucidate a difference.

Standard English defintion of "to utilise for one's own ends" suffices.

Self-exploitation is ethically justifiable, whereas trading on the talents and attributes of others without due consideration is not.


Furthermore, even if one person exploits the beauty of another, it is not illegal. If it were, capital free market economics would be in deep do-do. Are you sure, Rinso, you want to bring down the ideologies that support Western economies for the sake of banning a beauty contest?

Not at all. While I submit that captialism often exploits the socio-economically disadvantaged. In this case we need not take the argument to such a level. I merely meant that if the beauty contestants are not receiving due consideration then exploitation, even by the weaker definition of western capitalism, is taking place.

What I don't know is "IF due consideration is being received". This is a case this is a big IF and solely due to my ignorance and lack of interest. I was just offering an alternative point of view which may or may not be valid depending on this point.

WhiteElephant
19-04-2005, 06:34 PM
RW,

How are the organisers exploiting the entrants when participation/ submission of photos is voluntary?

The organisers have given up much time and money to plan and organise the contest, create the website, advertise, etc. What do they personally have to gain from this? If anything, they have copped a fair bit of criticism and are still persevering with the project.

Anyway, if this helps Arianne Caoili and Anastasia Sorokina pick up some sponsorship for the next Olympiad, it will be well worth it.

Rincewind
19-04-2005, 07:01 PM
How are the organisers exploiting the entrants when participation/ submission of photos is voluntary?

The organisers have given up much time and money to plan and organise the contest, create the website, advertise, etc. What do they personally have to gain from this? If anything, they have copped a fair bit of criticism and are still persevering with the project.

Anyway, if this helps Arianne Caoili and Anastasia Sorokina pick up some sponsorship for the next Olympiad, it will be well worth it.

You and Duff seem to be under the misapprehension that I support an opposite poistion whereas I thought I made it clear my position was one of disinterest. To judge the degree of exploitation would depend on specifics of the contest which I'm not sufficiently interested to learn.

Assuming participation is voluntary and contestants are equitably compensated than I have no issue with the contest, per se. However, while exploitation by the the stronger socialist defintion may still be taking place, it is not serious enough (in my mind) to warrent attention.

I can see those that promote feminist issues may have a problem with the CONCEPT of the contest because it could be argued that it undermines women's interests in an intellectual pursuit and I would be interested in hearing their arguments. Although as I mentioned I'm not inclined to defend such a position myself.

WhiteElephant
19-04-2005, 09:21 PM
I am particularly interested in this contest because I am not comfortable with chess being perceived as a geeky, over-intellectualised, anti-social pursuit (has anyone seen that movie 'The Lonely Guy' with Steve Martin where that sad case sits around playing chess against his computer - you know what I mean!).

This perception is creating a barrier to:
- New players taking up chess
- Sponsorship of players
- Media interest in chess

Therefore I welcome any new initiatives which aim to bring chess towards the mainstream and/ or generate debate.

I see this Beauty Contest as having various benefits:
1) Helping promote individual female players - gaining them international recognition, invitations to tournaments and media attention
2) Making males more interested in female chess
3) The chess community having a bit of fun, participating in debate, voting and various other activities associated with the site.


You and Duff seem to be under the misapprehension that I support an opposite poistion whereas I thought I made it clear my position was one of disinterest. To judge the degree of exploitation would depend on specifics of the contest which I'm not sufficiently interested to learn.

Fair enough, I just wanted someone to explain to me how the organisers are exploiting the participants. Maybe there is something I am missing. I take your point Barry, but there are are some people on the site's forum trundling out the old exploitation line without any reasoning behind it. I would be against the contest too if I felt the organisers were in some way maliciously profiting from the participants but I don't believe they are.


Assuming participation is voluntary and contestants are equitably compensated than I have no issue with the contest, per se. However, while exploitation by the the stronger socialist defintion may still be taking place, it is not serious enough (in my mind) to warrent attention.

I can see those that promote feminist issues may have a problem with the CONCEPT of the contest because it could be argued that it undermines women's interests in an intellectual pursuit and I would be interested in hearing their arguments. Although as I mentioned I'm not inclined to defend such a position myself.

Agreed. Sometimes you have to push the boundaries a little to get results. Some of the feminist arguments are on the site and they are an interesting read but I believe that they are outweighed by the gains to be made for chess.

Having said all that, I do have a couple of concerns about the way the Beauty Contest is run.

Firstly, it is imperative that the vote-counting is fair and strictly monitored, otherwise the contest becomes worthless.

Secondly, the identity of the entrant must be strictly verified before photos can be submitted to make sure someone's photo does not get put up on the site without their consent. Apparently this was a problkem in the early days of the contest but the organisers assure that this has been attended to.

W.E.

Comrade
19-04-2005, 09:45 PM
Ha, the admins are blind... Lilija Drljevic isn't a contestant

WhiteElephant
19-04-2005, 09:47 PM
Yeah I think there have been some problems with people entered who don't even play chess. Needs to be addressed.

pballard
19-04-2005, 10:11 PM
Then people like YOU come along and say "OOoooo. No no no. Can't rank people on how well their face conforms to the cultural and or instinctual parameters of beauty. :rolleyes:


I'm not going to argue.

All I was pointing out was that it is not inconsistent for Jennifer Shahade to enjoy dressing up, yet object to a beauty competition, because the two are not the same thing.

--
Peter

Duff McKagan
02-06-2005, 10:33 PM
Candy-Cane has now got her bonce on this site. It is a great photo showing just how she treats her chess opponents. Its like "You are as dead as disco, bozo"

http://www.1wcbc.com/main.htm

antichrist
02-06-2005, 10:46 PM
Candy-Cane has now got her bonce on this site. It is a great photo showing just how she treats her chess opponents. Its like "You are as dead as disco, bozo"

http://www.1wcbc.com/main.htm

Is Candy Arianne? She looks a lot better close up

Bill Gletsos
02-06-2005, 11:05 PM
Is Candy Arianne? She looks a lot better close upNo.

antichrist
02-06-2005, 11:08 PM
Well I could not find Candy over there, did not look everywhere

Duff McKagan
02-06-2005, 11:29 PM
Vaness Reid.

Duff McKagan
02-06-2005, 11:32 PM
No.

Do you mean "No" Is not Candy Arianne?

or

"No" She doesnt look a lot better close up?

:owned:

eclectic
02-06-2005, 11:38 PM
Vaness Reid.

and candy-cane didn't even drop in to say hello to us all on her birthday ...

unless someone bought her a premium membership as a prezzy and she immediately opted for invisible status!

:whistle:

;)

eclectic

Bill Gletsos
02-06-2005, 11:40 PM
Do you mean "No" Is not Candy Arianne?

or

"No" She doesnt look a lot better close up?

:owned:The former.
I cannot comment on the latter as I havent bothered to check her out on the website.

JGB
03-06-2005, 12:57 AM
Surely the saddest chess related site I have seen on the web since www.soyouwanna.com tried to teach the game.

antichrist
03-06-2005, 06:16 AM
Surely the saddest chess related site I have seen on the web since www.soyouwanna.com tried to teach the game.

If there was the reverse and females admired top male players for being hip would it do the game any harm? At least they may show up at comps.

EGOR
03-06-2005, 09:07 AM
If there was the reverse and females admired top male players for being hip would it do the game any harm? At least they may show up at comps.
Personally, I feel that main reason for my current low rating is the distraction of all my female admirers watching me play. :c00l:

Libby
03-06-2005, 10:04 AM
That should make you easy to spot ...

antichrist
03-06-2005, 12:19 PM
Well EGor, that is the first attempt I have seen from you at humour. Keep trying.

Trent Parker
03-06-2005, 01:22 PM
Personally, I feel that main reason for my current low rating is the distraction of all my female admirers watching me play. :c00l:

:lol: :laugh:

arosar
28-11-2005, 04:26 PM
Australia's Vaness Reid is now a famous person after having been mentioned in a couple of world newspapers.

For the scoop, go to the blog now!

http://closetgrandmaster.blogspot.com/

AR

Frank Walker
28-11-2005, 06:46 PM
Vaness Reid is number 1 on the top 10

and another ozzie at number 10

arosar
29-11-2005, 06:40 AM
It seems I was behind the blogosphere on that one. The whole thing began a day earlier with an New York Times item. Check out the blog for an update and click the links to some pieces from Mig and Susan Polgar.

AR

Leonid Sandler
30-11-2005, 08:58 PM
Hello all,
In todays "The Age" newspaper in last page of the sport section they have published info about Vaness Reid and some other ladies,including some photos.Good stuff for chess propaganda.I believe that we had the best looking team in Calvia Olympiad 2004.I do have some excellent photos about 250 shots from Womens event.Please remember who played in 2004 Berezina,Caoili,Sorokina,Eriksson.All very lovely ladies.
Leonid Sandler,
Captain of Australian womens Olympiad team 2004

Watto
01-12-2005, 07:14 AM
It's funny but if we're honest the problem with chess' image is not that there's a lack of attractive women playing chess. It's quite clear there's plenty of attractive female chessplayers given the numbers playing.

The vast number of people identify world class chess with men. Nigel Short, one of the judges/arbiters (?) of this contest, has even said that events like the world chess beauty contest are the best bet women have of attracting attention to their chess (ie their chess won't do the talking) and secondly that's it's great for the image of chess. It's fun, sexy etc. The first point I can't be bothered to respond to and i'm late for work. About the second, sure contests like this can be fun but, if they're so worried about the image of chess and what they perceive as its lack of sexiness (partly reflects their own personal insecurity is my guess), the grandmasters running this site should strongly encourage their male peers, who outnumber the women dramatically, to go to the gym and get makeovers.

four four two
01-12-2005, 11:13 AM
Is Nigel Short really involved with this website,and if so how did he get roped in? Was he drinking at the time? :hmm:

If you look at the bb forum on this site you will see that half of the comments are either malicious or straight out sexist,its also interesting to note that there are a number of negative comments about female chessplayers posted by people in Australia. :sad:

Watto
01-12-2005, 01:49 PM
Is Nigel Short really involved with this website,and if so how did he get roped in? Was he drinking at the time? :hmm: :
Yes, his comments were reported in the NY Times last week. I've just tried to find the article again but you have to register now to read it.

[/QUOTE=four four two]If you look at the bb forum on this site you will see that half of the comments are either malicious or straight out sexist,its also interesting to note that there are a number of negative comments about female chessplayers posted by people in Australia. :sad:[/QUOTE]

Haven't read the comments you're talking about or any comments on the site actually. Just visited it and looked at a few pics. It is a bit disappointing but not surprising to get some feedback like that when you have an online site set up by male chessplayers to judge female players on their looks- sort of cheerleaders for chess. It positively encourages that sort of stuff. I have to confess I found myself thinking the occasional 'she's not all that great...' or 'God, what was that one thinking sending her photo in?!!' Not generous but the contest encourages that sort of reaction.

They could have at least made it for both men and women. If they want to judge people on their looks, have fun with playing with different images for chess, get lots of publicity by promoting it in different 'new, fresh' ways, fine. But this way it's so, so old world. pathetically so.

Must add: a badly run website- very hard to navigate! ;)

arosar
01-12-2005, 01:51 PM
I have just been informed by a highly placed source that Vaness will appear on Channel 7. They flew down to interview her.

AR

Watto
01-12-2005, 02:11 PM
p.s. in case it's not clear, no disrespect intended to Vaness by my comments on the wcbc. Must be nice for her- also a surreal experience I should imagine. One day you're a teenager minding your own business, the next you've made the NY Times.

PHAT
01-12-2005, 08:45 PM
...if they're so worried about the image of chess and what they perceive as its lack of sexiness ... the grandmasters running this site should strongly encourage their male peers, who outnumber the women dramatically, to go to the gym and get makeovers.

I tend to agree. However, you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.

On a more serious note, the majority of males who play chess have little inclination to prominade. Hence the dress sence of 90% of chess players is that of a sheltered workshop employee.

I have called for the following before, but the dags hold the balance of power: Dress Code!

Clothes maketh the man and everyone looks better after an EXTRA 10 minutes in the ablution block and EXTRA $100 on threads.

Just look at the cheep t-shirts, tracky dack, cardigans, vinyl shoes, hairy necks, dirty nails and shiny backsides at the next tournament. The sight if it makes me want to vomit on them.

Watto
01-12-2005, 09:14 PM
I tend to agree. However, you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.

On a more serious note, the majority of males who play chess have little inclination to prominade. Hence the dress sence of 90% of chess players is that of a sheltered workshop employee.

I have called for the following before, but the dags hold the balance of power: Dress Code!

Clothes maketh the man and everyone looks better after an EXTRA 10 minutes in the ablution block and EXTRA $100 on threads.

Just look at the cheep t-shirts, tracky dack, cardigans, vinyl shoes, hairy necks, dirty nails and shiny backsides at the next tournament. The sight if it makes me want to vomit on them.
LOL. Don't know about the shiny backsides, but the cheep t-shirts are okay. And being a freelance illustrator I've been guilty of dirty nails myself, wearing cardigans... hmmm, wonder whether I still have those vinyl shoes? ;)

Alan Shore
01-12-2005, 09:48 PM
I tend to agree. However, you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.

On a more serious note, the majority of males who play chess have little inclination to prominade. Hence the dress sence of 90% of chess players is that of a sheltered workshop employee.

I have called for the following before, but the dags hold the balance of power: Dress Code!

Clothes maketh the man and everyone looks better after an EXTRA 10 minutes in the ablution block and EXTRA $100 on threads.

Just look at the cheep t-shirts, tracky dack, cardigans, vinyl shoes, hairy necks, dirty nails and shiny backsides at the next tournament. The sight if it makes me want to vomit on them.


Mate, you were wearing a Hawaiian shirt when I last saw you.... surely that can't qualify as dressy?

For 4+ day tourns they should have a 'formal dress' day, that'd be neat.

PHAT
01-12-2005, 10:01 PM
Mate, you were wearing a Hawaiian shirt when I last saw you.... surely that can't qualify as dressy?

:evil: I have never owned a Hawian shirt in my life :hand:

I think, however, I know the made-to-measure screen printed silk shirt you recall ;)

four four two
02-12-2005, 12:56 AM
Matt,youre sprouting the kind of mass generalisations that wouldnt look out of place coming from someone like Jammo. :whistle:

What Im still trying to work out is,how can you have dirty nails and have a shiny backside at the same time? :lol:

Garvinator
02-12-2005, 01:01 AM
For 4+ day tourns they should have a 'formal dress' day, that'd be neat.
dont think that this is such an unlikely thing to happen ;) :cool:

Duff McKagan
02-12-2005, 01:30 AM
Ok I have a few comments:

There are many dodgy things to this site. The obvious one is the number of dupes created via proxy servers to influence the voting. Many nicknames are created, login for one day, vote and make a few comments and never return.
The organisers have their reasons for creating this site, probably more than just one. They didn't deliver on their claims that prizemoney would be given out on November 1st 2005. This is just bad management and it is probably due to the fact that they did not obtain a sponsor. One of the organisers (take an educated guess) is using the site to globetrot and scope out chicks. And other bloggers (not you Amiel) are saying things like: the girls who enter make claims that it is for the best interest of women's chess or they do it for women's chess.
While i think the site is not in the best interest of progressing women's chess, I think some people should not blame the contestants who do not claim that it does. They are just entering a beauty contest as a chess player. Don't blame them for raising their personal profile and trying to win prizemoney! Perhaps the site raises the awareness of women's chess but it hardly goes in the positive direction when it comes to improving the player's skill level.
And finally, the breach of contestant's personal information on this site has gone too far... you will see some changes soon. Enough of the madness!

Sorry to pervs. Save your photos fast now :D

Comrade

PHAT
04-12-2005, 04:59 PM
Why is journo from The Australian ringing me to get VR's number and a few quotes, and how did he get my number ?!?!?

Anyway, I have this to say:

There is no such thing as bad coverage. Press on chess for any reason is good.

(Dunno if the Reids are so sure now, but if it was my daughter in the middle (when older!) I would be fully supportive.)

Trent Parker
04-12-2005, 05:04 PM
Vaness Reid has been pulled out of the WCBC anyhow......

four four two
04-12-2005, 05:59 PM
She appears to still be the numero uno Trent. :hmm:

Garvinator
04-12-2005, 11:59 PM
She appears to still be the numero uno Trent. :hmm:
vaness is still listed as number one, but when you go to the list of participants, Vaness isnt there anymore.

I would imagine that this is because Vaness is under 18.

arosar
05-12-2005, 02:54 AM
vaness is still listed as number one, but when you go to the list of participants, Vaness isnt there anymore.

I would imagine that this is because Vaness is under 18.

Hello from HK!

VR asked her pics to be removed.

AR

four four two
05-12-2005, 12:11 PM
Looks a bit strange that they would remove her as a participant and still keep her photo listed as number one. I wouldnt be surprised if her photo stayed there for awhile,with the admins using phony accounts to slowly vote her out of the top ten. Because if she just suddenly disappears from the top ten after having been number 1 for 3 months it will look suspect to the regulars to that site.

I presume Vanessa's decision to distance herself from that site is due to the domestic media attention,can anyone confirm this? :hmm:

Garvinator
05-12-2005, 12:15 PM
I presume Vanessa's decision to distance herself from that site is due to the domestic media attention,can anyone confirm this? :hmm:
i cannot confirm or deny this ;) but what i can confirm is that Ms Reid's first name is Vaness, not Vanessa. There is no A on the end.

pax
05-12-2005, 01:12 PM
I presume Vanessa's decision to distance herself from that site is due to the domestic media attention,can anyone confirm this? :hmm:

Headlines such as "pawn or porn?" might have had something to do with it.

jenni
05-12-2005, 03:07 PM
I have received the impression that Vaness' parents didn't know she had put up the pictures. I didn't know about Shannon either until Matt let the cat out the bag at Doeberl and I went hunting.

I wan't happy with Shannon's decision to put them up, but as she is over 18, I respected her decision to do it. However if she had been 16 like Vaness, I probably would have asked her to get them removed.

Garvinator
05-12-2005, 03:10 PM
I probably would have asked her to get them removed.
asked :hmm: ;) :)

PHAT
05-12-2005, 03:27 PM
I didn't know about Shannon either until Matt let the cat out the bag at Doeberl and I went hunting

OMG - I'm dobbed in :uhoh:

four four two
05-12-2005, 03:52 PM
HaHa :lol:
It seems strange that Shannon would tell Mr Sweeney first and not you Jenni.

Rincewind
05-12-2005, 04:01 PM
HaHa :lol:
It seems strange that Shannon would tell Mr Sweeney first and not you Jenni.

I think you are reading more into Jenni's comments than what was there. Matt's knowledge of Shannon's pics doesn't mean Shannon told Matt.

four four two
05-12-2005, 04:05 PM
Thats possibly true Rincewind,which would mean that Matt was scouring that site for his own purposes. ;)
I will let Matt answer that one if he so wishes... :D :whistle:

jenni
05-12-2005, 05:42 PM
Shannon definitely didn't tell Matt :lol:

Garvinator
05-12-2005, 05:45 PM
I think it is quite likely that Matt and others found Shannon's pictures after Amiel started this thread.

jenni
05-12-2005, 05:47 PM
asked :hmm: ;) :)

Well yes - we always try to respect our children and not order them about. However my polite requests tend to escalate...

I always found the best way to win an arguement with Shannon when she was going through the terrible teens, was to give in.

i.e after many arguements on a subject, I would finally say "oh very well do what you like - I don't care, its your life.", would inevitably lead to her agreeing to do what I wanted. Not sure why - maybe because she secretly agreed with my arguements, but also needed to assert herself?

Garvinator
05-12-2005, 06:04 PM
Hello everyone-

Disclaimer- I am aware that this thread might be controversial and might be removed upon request, but I thought the Australian newspaper article should be reproduced here so people can judge for themselves.

Of course if I get a request from Vaness, I will remove it immediately.




Chess glamour girl rejects claims of soft pawn

Jonathan Porter
December 05, 2005

VANESS Reid is at 47,694th in the global rankings for chess, a game that has taken her to a dozen nations around the world.

More importantly, and much more controversially, the 16-year-old from Oak Flats in Shellharbour, south of Sydney, is about to be rated chess's No1 glamour girl.

For months she has been leading the World Chess Beauty Contest, the brainchild of a group of former grand masters including Nigel Short, formerly Britain's top player.

The contest website shows pictures of other entrants including bikini-clad Russian grand masters such as Maria Manakova, the fourth-ranked Russian woman player, who has posed nude for a Moscow magazine.

Reid said yesterday the contest was "important because it shows people chess is not just a game for intellectuals, the aged or nerdy people". "It's also for youthful people," said Reid, the daughter of an operator at the Lucas Heights nuclear reactor.


"If I win the competition it will give people someone to look up to in the chess world." Not surprisingly, the competition has attracted criticism, with its detractors labelling it "soft pawn".

The contest's founders argue that the game needs glamour to compete with a multi-million-dollar challenge from televised poker, which is believed to be drawing both players and sponsorship from the chess circuit. Yet several leading women players have complained they feel degraded by a contest that awards women a rating based on looks.

Jennifer Shahade, twice a US women's champion, said: "There is nothing wrong with making chess sexier by highlighting the hip players who participate. But I find the World Chess Beauty Contest misguided and juvenile."

Reid's mother Vivien yesterday said she would be "proud" if her daughter won the contest.

Reid said far from feeling degraded she felt empowered by the contest, which offers a prize of $US5000 ($6682). "It shows women have many talents."

Now I will start with my one thought for now.

This is now the second article I am aware of that uses a very poor choice as an example of a headline or feature point.

In the Inside sport article on the 2005 Lidums Australian Open- one of our juniors was referred to as 'looking like he belongs to the Khmer Rouge'.

Now we have the above mentioned headline :evil:

Alan Shore
05-12-2005, 07:26 PM
$US 5,000!??!?!

My goodness, you'd have to be daft to withdraw, it's only a photograph....!

Rincewind
05-12-2005, 07:46 PM
$US 5,000!??!?!

My goodness, you'd have to be daft to withdraw, it's only a photograph....!

There are more important things than money. For $10 I'll tell you what they are.
;)

Alan Shore
05-12-2005, 08:08 PM
There are more important things than money.

Yeah, but for $5,000... apparently I'm already on a 'cute guys in chess' list but I'd be willing to do more for that kind of cash, lol.


For $10 I'll tell you what they are.
;)

OK, $$$$$$$$$$.... what are they? ;)

PHAT
05-12-2005, 09:07 PM
I always found the best way to win an arguement with Shannon when she was going through the terrible teens, was to give in.
..."oh very well do what you like - I don't care, its your life."

It is called emotional blackmail where you assume the role of the disappointed parent and martyr ;)

PHAT
05-12-2005, 09:10 PM
Thats possibly true Rincewind,which would mean that Matt was scouring that site for his own purposes. ;)
I will let Matt answer that one if he so wishes... :D :whistle:

Ehem ehem. I had a good look through the site. I was trying to see if there was a stereo type. I didn't find one - which is a good sign!

Kevin Bonham
05-12-2005, 09:13 PM
Now I will start with my one thought for now.

This is now the second article I am aware of that uses a very poor choice as an example of a headline or feature point.

In the Inside sport article on the 2005 Lidums Australian Open- one of our juniors was referred to as 'looking like he belongs to the Khmer Rouge'.

Now we have the above mentioned headline :evil:

It's best not to use quote marks where you are actually paraphrasing. Yes there was a Khmer Rouge reference with the above meaning in Inside Sport but I'm pretty sure (without my copy in front of me) that those are not the exact words. The Inside Sport article was written in an over-the-top, politically incorrect and satirical style and had a lot of those sorts of stereotypes in it.

Given that the "soft pawn" cliche is as old as the hills (indeed over them) within the chess community, but would be relatively novel outside it, what is your objection to the heading of the article above? Seems to me that the heading accurately describes the contents of the article and the article, while about as shallow as the issue it covers, is nonetheless balanced in its coverage. I have seen much worse media practice in newspapers from people inside the chess community.

I have merged your thread into this one because I saw absolutely no reason to start a new thread.

jenni
05-12-2005, 09:25 PM
It is called emotional blackmail where you assume the role of the disappointed parent and martyr ;)

It works - I don't mind being manipulative.

Gareth says he hates it when I get "that voice" as he always feels he has to give in. I think I must have mastered a "martyred" voice.....

Candy-Cane
06-12-2005, 04:35 PM
Hello.

Yes Jenni my parents do know perfectly well that my pictures have been on the WCBC site. I infact told my mother when I was putting the pictures onto the site and she fully supports me as well as my father.

I believe Matt, that the Australian got your number from the NSW CA site as its on the clubs information and well they came to my house I saw they had the whole list printed out. Sorry that you have been harassed about this.

Yes I infact did ask for the pictures to be removed as being a little freaked out by all these emails and phone calls I have received. I did do an interview with channel 7, however, my parents asked them not to put it to air as the angle they were going to take it from would be rather bad we believed. I agreed to do an interview with the Australian though.

I have now emailed the WCBC site back to place the pictures up again. They did not take them down because I am under 18, you must be at least 16 to enter of which I am 16 of course.

Vaness H Reid.

Frank Walker
06-12-2005, 04:43 PM
Yes her mother talked to a newspaper.

Alan Shore
06-12-2005, 05:04 PM
Hello.

Yes Jenni my parents do know perfectly well that my pictures have been on the WCBC site. I infact told my mother when I was putting the pictures onto the site and she fully supports me as well as my father.

I believe Matt, that the Australian got your number from the NSW CA site as its on the clubs information and well they came to my house I saw they had the whole list printed out. Sorry that you have been harassed about this.

Yes I infact did ask for the pictures to be removed as being a little freaked out by all these emails and phone calls I have received. I did do an interview with channel 7, however, my parents asked them not to put it to air as the angle they were going to take it from would be rather bad we believed. I agreed to do an interview with the Australian though.

I have now emailed the WCBC site back to place the pictures up again. They did not take them down because I am under 18, you must be at least 16 to enter of which I am 16 of course.

Vaness H Reid.

Yeah, I can understand that. I can only imagine what the really big celebrities go through...

Anyway, glad you decided to stay in for your sake, best of luck in winning the $US 5K!

PHAT
06-12-2005, 05:05 PM
I believe Matt, that the Australian got your number from the NSW CA ... Sorry that you have been harassed about this.

Hello Vaness,

I am sorry that you have thought that I felt harrassed - I am not at all. I bath in the reflected glory ;) In any case, I am happy that you are having such a wild roller-coaster ride. I hope you are enjoying it. You go girl :D

Matt

jenni
06-12-2005, 10:19 PM
Hello.

Yes Jenni my parents do know perfectly well that my pictures have been on the WCBC site. I infact told my mother when I was putting the pictures onto the site and she fully supports me as well as my father.

.

Isn't that nice - knowing your Dad I am sure he would support you through all situations.

jenni
06-12-2005, 11:30 PM
Have thought about this a fair bit - I do agree with Matt that there is no such thing as bad publicity. There is no doubt that it will have raised the profile of chess in the same way as sports stars on calendars. If they can do it then why not chess girls?

However wearing my other hat. I think it sucks - why should our chess girls be lured with prize money (huge if you are young or coming from a poor country) into participating in something like this. I think I am a bit with Susan Polgar on this one...

Phil Bourke
07-12-2005, 01:15 PM
Now, now, in this age of political correctness, why don't us males get a mention too, couldn't it be a unisex calendar featuring both male and female chess players :)
As for the WCBC, no big deal for mine, Vaness made her decision with her parent's knowledge, and I suspect help. So long as she is comfortable with it, good for her. Admittedly having to deal with people who wish to portray it in a poorer light may not have been thought of before. but I think that all that has to be kept in mind is that it seemed a novel way of gaining some exposure for chess, a sport that is often dismissed and neglected by the media as a haven for nutcases, and pointing out the obvious, that millions of normal people are enjoying their chess. Then, again, good on Vaness and her parents for having the gumption to do it.

jenni
07-12-2005, 01:52 PM
Now, now, in this age of political correctness, why don't us males get a mention too, couldn't it be a unisex calendar featuring both male and female chess players :)

.

Actually I wouldn't mind if it WAS both men and women. Then I wouldn't feel it was exploitive of the females. Shannon still doesn't have a problem with it - I guess it is good that girls these days are so confident of themselves that they can partipate in something like this and not feel that they are just an object.

Why isn't there a male division to this competition - I would enjoy checking out the male talent - must be a few pinups among them?

Rincewind
07-12-2005, 01:57 PM
Why isn't there a male division to this competition - I would enjoy checking out the male talent - must be a few pinups among them?

You have been to senior chess tournaments, haven't you? :eh:

jenni
07-12-2005, 02:41 PM
You have been to senior chess tournaments, haven't you? :eh:

Actually there are a few pinups even in Australia, although I might be accused of cradle snatching. :eek:

Duff McKagan
07-12-2005, 02:59 PM
$US 5,000!??!?!

My goodness, you'd have to be daft to withdraw, it's only a photograph....!

Well Vaness is the winner according to the original claims on the website, so they should pay her this $5000. Would anyone like to enter a tournament and clearly win first prize having met all of the conditions, only for the organisers to turn around and say "we have extended the number of rounds and therefore first prize is not decided yet" ?

PHAT
07-12-2005, 03:21 PM
Well Vaness is the winner according to the original claims on the website, so they should pay her this $5000. Would anyone like to enter a tournament and clearly win first prize having met all of the conditions, only for the organisers to turn around and say "we have extended the number of rounds and therefore first prize is not decided yet" ?


These are big boys. With names. Have a lawyer issue Nigel Short withy a writ and an offer to settle out of court with an undisclosed settlement.

Garvinator
07-12-2005, 04:59 PM
Actually there are a few pinups even in Australia, although I might be accused of cradle snatching. :eek:
dont worry Jenni, there will be no accusations of cradle snatching, but at least you would be going against the normal chess trend of waiting until the very last minute, you would be getting in early ;)

Candy-Cane
07-12-2005, 08:48 PM
Isn't that nice - knowing your Dad I am sure he would support you through all situations.

Well at least my Dad knows what I get up to.....

jenni
08-12-2005, 08:39 AM
Well at least my Dad knows what I get up to.....
You are right - we didn't know about Shannon's photos - and probably lots of other things. :)

However she is 19 and has to make her own mistakes now.

She has had a very good grounding and although I know she has done some silly things over the last few years it is all a growing process. I think she made the decision to put the photos up, knowing we would disapprove of it as expoitive of females and decided to avoid my martyred voice.

Never mind Candy-Cane - it must be quite fun being the bad girl of Australian chess at the moment.

Dozy
08-12-2005, 09:42 AM
Never mind Candy-Cane - it must be quite fun being the bad girl of Australian chess at the moment.Jenni, you come across as a thoughtful, friendly person so I'm going to guess you weren't intentionally being offensive, but why on earth should Candy feel she's a "bad" anything because she doesn't subscribe to your particular hang-up about "exploitation"?

You're surely not suggesting that there was anything salacious or exploitative about the pics she sent in?

Goodonyer, Candy Cane! Go for it!

:clap: :clap:

Watto
08-12-2005, 09:49 AM
Jenni, you come across as a thoughtful, friendly person so I'm going to guess you weren't intentionally being offensive, but why on earth should Candy feel she's a "bad" anything because she doesn't subscribe to your particular hang-up about "exploitation"?

You're surely not suggesting that there was anything salacious or exploitative about the pics she sent in?

Goodonyer, Candy Cane! Go for it!

:clap: :clap:

Must agree. Although I’ve expressed my doubts about the site and Nigel Short’s comments really got on my nerves, getting voted into number one spot doesn’t make Vaness the bad girl of Australian chess by any stretch of the imagination! Hope you get the US$5000 Vaness. :)

jenni
08-12-2005, 10:11 AM
Must agree. Although Iíve expressed my doubts about the site and Nigel Shortís comments really got on my nerves, getting voted into number one spot doesnít make Vaness the bad girl of Australian chess by any stretch of the imagination! Hope you get the US$5000 Vaness. :)
Absolutely don't think there was anything bad about the pics - I actually disliked Shannon's more than Vaness'.

In fact I don't think the site makes anyone a "bad girl" - it is exploitive OF the girls and that is what I dislike about it.

Watto
08-12-2005, 10:58 AM
Absolutely don't think there was anything bad about the pics - I actually disliked Shannon's more than Vaness'.

In fact I don't think the site makes anyone a "bad girl" - it is exploitive OF the girls and that is what I dislike about it.
Hi Jenni. Yes, I agree with you more than disagree with you about the wcbc. By the way, have you got a link for the Susan Polgar comment?

I’ll leave it there- post count increasing at an alarming rate! :)
(Perhaps a brief post will only count as half a post ;) )

jenni
08-12-2005, 11:14 AM
Hi Jenni. Yes, I agree with you more than disagree with you about the wcbc. By the way, have you got a link for the Susan Polgar comment?



http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2005/11/controversial-topic-sex-and-chess.html




Iíll leave it there- post count increasing at an alarming rate! :)
(Perhaps a brief post will only count as half a post ;) )

Yes you are wise to exercise restraint - it is too easy to waste far too much time on here. :wall:

Watto
08-12-2005, 11:21 AM
http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2005/11/controversial-topic-sex-and-chess.html



Yes you are wise to exercise restraint - it is too easy to waste far too much time on here. :wall:

Thanks for the link!

Duff McKagan
31-01-2006, 05:01 AM
Good night to this site, it seems.

eclectic
31-01-2006, 05:50 AM
Good night to this site, it seems.

and it would seem a definite good night to candycane's prize too? :(

ps yes the status at www.whois.net is: lock

Garvinator
31-01-2006, 12:17 PM
and it would seem a definite good night to candycane's prize too? :(
you seem to think there was any real ability to pay any prizes:uhoh:

qpawn
31-01-2006, 09:01 PM
Anyone recall that woman player in the SA state championship who flashed her mammary glands in the playoff final to get a decisive advantage against a rather old, sexually repressed codger of a gentleman?

:D

Alan Shore
31-01-2006, 09:05 PM
Anyone recall that woman player in the SA state championship who flashed her mammary glands in the playoff final to get a decisive advantage against a rather old, sexually repressed codger of a gentleman?

:D

Yeah, it was Ngan Koshnitsky, I remember because it made the newspapers.

Kevin Bonham
31-01-2006, 09:32 PM
Yeah, it was Ngan Koshnitsky, I remember because it made the newspapers.

I may still have a copy of one of the articles about that somewhere. Total beatup in my view, but the last time I expressed that view, several cave trolls suggested that there must be something wrong with my masculinity and that if a young female wearing a vaguely low-cut dress (was there really any more to the issue than that?) were to play against them they would drop 1000 ratings points and turn into a puddle of sexually desperate drooling on the spot.

As for the WCBC, if it has indeed folded, what are the prospects of FIDE action against those (ir)responsible? It's one thing to argue whether it is exploitative to encourage women to enter a comp like this for money but if the money is promised and not paid then it is certainly exploitation.

Oops, I used the words "FIDE" and "action" next to each other. Forget I ever asked that. :rolleyes:

Oepty
01-02-2006, 01:47 PM
Anyone recall that woman player in the SA state championship who flashed her mammary glands in the playoff final to get a decisive advantage against a rather old, sexually repressed codger of a gentleman?

:D

This seems to Ngan Koshnitsky in a rather negative light which I am not sure is fair. Also it was the state championship, not the playoff, as I believe they were the only 2 entries. The same thing happened the next year when Sheldrick beat Freytag to become state champion. SA seems to find it hard to get enough strong enough players interested in playing the SA champs. I also the incident had some TV coverage as well.
Scott

arosar
01-02-2006, 01:53 PM
The same thing happened the next year when Sheldrick beat Freytag to become state champion.

So Sheldrick flashed Freytag? Wow!

AR

Oepty
01-02-2006, 01:59 PM
So Sheldrick flashed Freytag? Wow!

AR

F$$king shutup you ognorant bastard

arosar
01-02-2006, 02:03 PM
F$$king shutup you ognorant bastard

Mate, you're a laugh! First there was Bill answering 'a' (that was LOL funny) and now you chucking a spastic.

AR

Alan Shore
01-02-2006, 02:17 PM
Ooh, outburst from mild-mannered Freddy!

Don't worry, I reckon Kevin S. would find that comment pretty funny. :D

Duff McKagan
01-02-2006, 03:11 PM
you seem to think there was any real ability to pay any prizes:uhoh:

Short and the other pervs should pay up!

pballard
01-02-2006, 08:50 PM
Anyone recall that woman player in the SA state championship who flashed her mammary glands in the playoff final to get a decisive advantage against a rather old, sexually repressed codger of a gentleman?

:D

She didn't "flash". Her opponent (Bob Cowley) complained about being distracted by her low cut tops. Google for Cowley and Koshnitsky and you'll find the article. I haven't spoken to Bob about it but I don't doubt he was genuinely distracted; but he was silly to let it bother him, and crazy to complain about it (and downright insane if he talked to the press, which he apparently did).

I've no idea whether Sheldrick flashed Freytag but the comment gave me a laugh. Lighten up Scott. Knowing both players, I'm sure they would've laughed too.

Ayuna
01-02-2006, 10:51 PM
Girls can be distracted by nice looking man.

Alan Shore
01-02-2006, 11:02 PM
Girls can be distracted by nice looking man.

True.. maybe that was the reason that girl lost to me that time even though she was like 400 points higher than me.... :cool:

Ayuna
01-02-2006, 11:12 PM
No you just maybe better

eclectic
02-02-2006, 04:56 AM
well it's unlocked once more and yes sadly :( candycane has been dethroned ...

[you can all :boohoo: now]

(yes i do know she has withdrawn already)

PHAT
02-02-2006, 08:16 AM
Girls can be distracted by nice looking man.

Yes! My wife says I drive her to distraction.

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 10:01 AM
You look like Brad Pitt?

PHAT
02-02-2006, 10:17 AM
You look like Brad Pitt?
That is my picture bellow my name. Why? You wanna mix genes.:lol:

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 10:23 AM
You have wife? She married you looking like this? You could maybe put on clothes try to look more 'prilichniy'

eclectic
02-02-2006, 10:23 AM
so, matt, do you intend entering the world chess beastie contest once someone gets that scam up on the web?

:rolleyes: :cool: :uhoh: :whistle:

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 11:12 AM
Sweeney is not nice looking man
Maybe he good chess player

PHAT
02-02-2006, 11:23 AM
I look better than I play.

eclectic, I was thinking we should run a MALE chess beauty contest.

I nominate this bloke ....

http://www.**********.com/ASL-Pet_cone.jpg

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 11:30 AM
This man is not look like Brad Pitt

PHAT
02-02-2006, 11:49 AM
That was Brad Pitt's father. This is his mother:

http://www.**********.com/LOL-AlbinoGorrilla.jpg

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 11:57 AM
This woman look like person from former republic of Uzbekistan

Libby
02-02-2006, 03:03 PM
Girls can be distracted by nice looking man.

Must be why most are finding it very easy to focus on their chess ... :whistle:

firegoat7
02-02-2006, 03:36 PM
Libby,

What is happening with your avatar picture? Whats going on there?

cheers Fg7

jenni
02-02-2006, 03:50 PM
Slow isn't he. :lol:

Bill Gletsos
02-02-2006, 03:51 PM
Slow isn't he. :lol:No doubt he missed it as the thread it is mentioned in discusses those dreaded "juniors". ;)

Libby
02-02-2006, 04:27 PM
Slow isn't he. :lol:

Shouldn't be too hard to follow my (personality) clues. I thought it was time I matured from Angelica.

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 05:13 PM
I go back to Odessa in 3 months I play in Begonia and Doeberl tournament. Many man chessplayer here is not pretty not look like Alexei Shirov.

Rincewind
02-02-2006, 05:33 PM
I go back to Odessa in 3 months I play in Begonia and Doeberl tournament. Many man chessplayer here is not pretty not look like Alexei Shirov.

Yes, or Svidler.

Ayuna
02-02-2006, 05:44 PM
Svidler is not look like Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp

noswonky
03-02-2006, 10:55 AM
Svidler is not look like Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp

I'm the same age as Brad Pitt... if that's any help. :)

Oepty
03-02-2006, 03:54 PM
Mate, you're a laugh! First there was Bill answering 'a' (that was LOL funny) and now you chucking a spastic.

AR

It wasn't meant to be funny you stupid imbecile. Perhaps this time you will get it. I HATE YOU.
Scott

Oepty
03-02-2006, 03:55 PM
Ooh, outburst from mild-mannered Freddy!

Don't worry, I reckon Kevin S. would find that comment pretty funny. :D

I am not mild mannered, I have quite a temper. It also was not about whether the comment was funny, it was about the fact I absolutely despise Amiel.
Scott

arosar
03-02-2006, 03:59 PM
It wasn't meant to be funny you stupid imbecile. Perhaps this time you will get it. I HATE YOU.
Scott

Well, it was funny to everyone else and that's all that matters, isn't it?

Now, aren't you supposed to be a Christian or something?

AR

WhiteElephant
03-02-2006, 04:30 PM
It wasn't meant to be funny you stupid imbecile. Perhaps this time you will get it. I HATE YOU.
Scott

What has arosar ever done to you?

arosar
03-02-2006, 04:32 PM
What has arosar ever done to you?

Hey White, were you the bloke who asked me for a pic?

AR

WhiteElephant
03-02-2006, 04:36 PM
Hey White, were you the bloke who asked me for a pic?

AR

Yeah I've been waiting with baited breath but couldn't see it with your other Queenstown pics.

arosar
03-02-2006, 04:40 PM
Ahh...yes, I have to send to you privately. Can you PM me your email addy?

AR

WhiteElephant
03-02-2006, 04:47 PM
Ahh...yes, I have to send to you privately. Can you PM me your email addy?

AR

Done. Nice pics of Arianne by the way :)

Oepty
04-02-2006, 10:38 AM
What has arosar ever done to you?

Bulletin Board rules prevent me from stating the reason why I have been angry with Amiel in the past and was angry with him again this time.
Scott

Oepty
04-02-2006, 11:00 AM
Well, it was funny to everyone else and that's all that matters, isn't it?

Now, aren't you supposed to be a Christian or something?

AR

Amiel. I am sorry for my outburst towards you, it was a disgraceful lack of self control on my part. I don't not hate you, although you have made me quite angry in the past. I should though have put this behind me and forgotten about it not brought it up so long after the event. The fact I allowed it to affect my judgement at this time says alot more about my failings than it does about what you did back then. You are right to bring up the religous principles I claim to live by because I have failed to do so at this time.
Scott Colliver

Alan Shore
04-02-2006, 11:35 AM
It's a one-man soap opera here!

jenni
04-02-2006, 12:03 PM
All credit to Freddy for saying sorry. Particularly as Amiel deliberately tries to stir people and is very good at getting them to lose their cool. :)

Bill Gletsos
04-02-2006, 01:26 PM
All credit to Freddy for saying sorry. Particularly as Amiel deliberately tries to stir people and is very good at getting them to lose their cool. :)Say it aint so. Surely Amiel would never do that. ;)

Oepty
04-02-2006, 01:42 PM
The reason I lost my cool with Amiel has nothing to do with him stirring, but I cannot reveal the reason becuase of the rules of chess chat.
Scott

arosar
04-02-2006, 01:51 PM
The reason I lost my cool with Amiel has nothing to do with him stirring, but I cannot reveal the reason becuase of the rules of chess chat.
Scott


OK now I'm intrigued. Why don't you just PM me so I at least know what it is I'm supposed to have done to you? Is it a religious thing?

If I recall correctly, you and I spoke quite amicably in Brissy. So what's the problem now?

AR

Oepty
04-02-2006, 02:45 PM
OK now I'm intrigued. Why don't you just PM me so I at least know what it is I'm supposed to have done to you? Is it a religious thing?

If I recall correctly, you and I spoke quite amicably in Brissy. So what's the problem now?

AR

Amiel, you have done nothing to me for ages. To be totally honest I don't know why I lost my temper towards you at this stage over an issue that is over a year old, related to Mt Buller. I am sorry I did, but don't ask me to explain it. Lets just move on please, I am feeling like a real idiot and I certainly acted like one. I swore at you and I try never to swear in any part of my life although I do to myself but never publicly. I really don't know what came over me sorry Amiel.
Scott

Alan Shore
04-02-2006, 03:04 PM
Amiel, you have done nothing to me for ages. To be totally honest I don't know why I lost my temper towards you at this stage over an issue that is over a year old, related to Mt Buller. I am sorry I did, but don't ask me to explain it. Lets just move on please, I am feeling like a real idiot and I certainly acted like one. I swore at you and I try never to swear in any part of my life although I do to myself but never publicly. I really don't know what came over me sorry Amiel.
Scott

It's not healthy to keep issues bottled up like that. Because they can explode. I'm not surprised when you admitted to having a temper at times. I believe issues should be resolved quickly... amicably if possible but certainly not avoided. I'd suggest you either discussed this issue privately with Amiel if it still bothers you, or if you really have dismissed it as not important, convince yourself of this and move on. This is just friendly advice as a psychology graduate.

Oepty
04-02-2006, 03:18 PM
It's not healthy to keep issues bottled up like that. Because they can explode. I'm not surprised when you admitted to having a temper at times. I believe issues should be resolved quickly... amicably if possible but certainly not avoided. I'd suggest you either discussed this issue privately with Amiel if it still bothers you, or if you really have dismissed it as not important, convince yourself of this and move on. This is just friendly advice as a psychology graduate.

Dion. Thankyou for the advice, I really mean it Thankyou. Perhaps you could answer another question. Why was it that when I was angry with Amiel I could not even remember the conversation I had had with him in Brisbane but as soon as I realised what an idiiot I had been and decided I should apologise to him I remembered that I had spoken to him.
I thought I had put aside and really was no longer worried about things, that is why I am surprised that it just reappeared again with no warning.
Scott

Alan Shore
04-02-2006, 03:26 PM
Dion. Thankyou for the advice, I really mean it Thankyou. Perhaps you could answer another question. Why was it that when I was angry with Amiel I could not even remember the conversation I had had with him in Brisbane but as soon as I realised what an idiiot I had been and decided I should apologise to him I remembered that I had spoken to him.
I thought I had put aside and really was no longer worried about things, that is why I am surprised that it just reappeared again with no warning.
Scott

Because of the way memory operates, it is not always based upon a series of events stored as data - memory can also be procedural (knowing how to do certain things) and it can be emotional. Thus, you had in the past made a negative emotional association with Amiel, or likely his BB persona in this case as I am guessing the remarks were made on the BB. Because it was long unresolved, the stimulus of a comment you did not appreciate primed your previous emotional associations with (in this case Amiel), causing the outburst. You shouldn't feel too bad about it because it can happen to anyone but see it as a lesson for next time, that repressing things can have this kind of volcano effect - try to be more open in expressing your displeasure.. this doesn't have to constitute being openly rude or insulting, as often the other party may be largely unaware they've said something to hurt your feelings or otherwise.

Garvinator
16-04-2006, 09:10 AM
has anything been done about this?

antichrist
16-04-2006, 09:27 AM
Because of the way memory operates, it is not always based upon a series of events stored as data - memory can also be procedural (knowing how to do certain things) and it can be emotional. Thus, you had in the past made a negative emotional association with Amiel, or likely his BB persona in this case as I am guessing the remarks were made on the BB. Because it was long unresolved, the stimulus of a comment you did not appreciate primed your previous emotional associations with (in this case Amiel), causing the outburst. You shouldn't feel too bad about it because it can happen to anyone but see it as a lesson for next time, that repressing things can have this kind of volcano effect - try to be more open in expressing your displeasure.. this doesn't have to constitute being openly rude or insulting, as often the other party may be largely unaware they've said something to hurt your feelings or otherwise.

Dr Phil, you are worth more money. Do I have any problems that you can help with?

Duff McKagan
23-05-2006, 08:14 AM
Are they going to award the winner with her prizes? NO!

Bunch of pervs.