PDA

View Full Version : NSWCA Newsletter



arosar
11-04-2005, 07:33 PM
We can't have these Mexicans have all the fun.

Today, I received my first issue. Err, interesting. Page 2 had a profile of both Peter Parr and Brian Jones. Peter's profile had lots of numbers in it; while Brian's had lots of kids in it. But I'm sitting here wondering, what the hell was that about?

Page 1 had the usual first issue greeting + Paul Sike's reverse psychology on the biggest problem in chess. Page 3 has more Paul Sike. In fact it's all Paulie in there. While the last page has a little job by Trent + an events calendar. Overall, not too shabby.

What's also interesting is that the newsletter came with a survey consisting of 3 questions. The first question reads:

"Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?"

What's wrong with that question?

AR

Spiny Norman
11-04-2005, 07:37 PM
What's wrong with that question?

"Objection your honour, the prosecution is leading the witness!"

"Overruled" ;)

Lucena
11-04-2005, 10:32 PM
Yes it's not the most effective way of phrasing that question :naughty:

Garvinator
11-04-2005, 10:44 PM
"Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?"

What's wrong with that question?

AR
seems like Mr Sike wants to kill his own newsletter at the first question :owned:

arosar
11-04-2005, 10:55 PM
seems like Mr Sike wants to kill his own newsletter at the first question :owned:

gray, to be clear, I don't think it was me mate Mr Sike who designed the question.

AR

Paul S
12-04-2005, 12:15 AM
We can't have these Mexicans have all the fun.

Today, I received my first issue. Err, interesting. Page 2 had a profile of both Peter Parr and Brian Jones. Peter's profile had lots of numbers in it; while Brian's had lots of kids in it. But I'm sitting here wondering, what the hell was that about?

Page 1 had the usual first issue greeting + Paul Sike's reverse psychology on the biggest problem in chess. Page 3 has more Paul Sike. In fact it's all Paulie in there. While the last page has a little job by Trent + an events calendar. Overall, not too shabby.

Thanks for the feedback, Amiel.

I think the newsletter could have been a bit better, but all in all I think it went OK considering it was my first attempt (although being the main author its a bit hard to be objective! ;) )! Have to start somewhere!

Turned out to be more difficult than I imagined (and dealing with NSWCA Council was frustrating at times :rolleyes: , although things improved considerably with them from mid-February onwards).

All in all the content was pretty much what I had submitted (for all of pages 1 and 3, collating of information supplied by Peter Parr on page 2 and the tournament calendar on page 4). Looks like Brian's article on page 2 was as per his submission and likewise with Trent's January Weekender report on page 4.


What's also interesting is that the newsletter came with a survey consisting of 3 questions. The first question reads:

"Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?"

What's wrong with that question?

AR

I was quite annoyed when I read those 3 survey questions! :mad: It would appear that the majority of NSWCA Council don't want a NSWCA Newsletter for their members and are trying to word the so-called "opinion survey" to get the result they want! :evil: I'll have more to say on this later! :mad:

Paul S
12-04-2005, 12:18 AM
"Objection your honour, the prosecution is leading the witness!"

NSWCA members = witnesses!


"Overruled" ;)

Overruled by NSWCA Council, it would appear!


Yes it's not the most effective way of phrasing that question :naughty:

Indeed! :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

Paul S
12-04-2005, 12:21 AM
seems like Mr Sike wants to kill his own newsletter at the first question :owned:


gray, to be clear, I don't think it was me mate Mr Sike who designed the question.

AR

Thankyou, Amiel! Indeed, I had NOTHING to do with those 3 survey questions!

jase
12-04-2005, 12:55 AM
I think one of the primary reasons for the parlous state of chess in Sydney is the lack of communication, marketing, and publicity.

Therefore it's great to see you doing something about it Paul. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think it's reasonable to ask members if they think a newsletter is a value-added product to their membership; it is a shame the question is so appallingly written.

The_Wise_Man
12-04-2005, 01:13 AM
You got it out.... Congratulations on the first newsletter.

Points I wish to make in terms of value for money....
I feel that I am getting more value for my money as a NSWCA member via a newsletter...
I feel that my club being affiliated to the NSWCA is getting better value for money via a newsletter...

Many members have access to the internet/email, so a question of whether you would prefer that the newsletter be emailed to members instead of hard copy would have also been good... (and it saves on paper/money)
May not work for all members but a question worth asking.

Wise

arosar
12-04-2005, 06:42 AM
Many members have access to the internet/email, so a question of whether you would prefer that the newsletter be emailed to members instead of hard copy would have also been good... (and it saves on paper/money)

Most people these days have email or internet access. This is why I am opposed to the idea of this newsletter. I think it's a waste of resources. The funds could be better spent on an improved website or whatever.

AR

Libby
12-04-2005, 07:54 AM
ACTJCL produces a weekly email bulletin for members with results, upcoming events, general news etc.

They have some glutton-for-punishment author :hmm: who produces it with that frequency.

I can't really see the point of a "paper" version in this day and age. It can be very expensive to produce & distribute. Yes it looks nice and some people like to collect all their copies but most others will be on the bottom of the budgie cage by the end of the day.

Perhaps you could survey your membership to determine the demand for a paper version and the capacity for most members to access such an item online? We email the Bulletin to all members but link to photos or other items rather than reproduce them in the bulletin (including images etc sometimes leads to us being blocked by recipients or being too "big" for some mailboxes).

You could however, have your very nicely produced newsletter available on the website and advise everyone of the link by email once the issue is available. And produce a small number of print versions for those amongst your membership who are unable to access the online version.

Although, if you have the means to make production & distribution an inexpensive process I guess it's not an issue for you but you still might like to save a few trees.

Trent Parker
12-04-2005, 08:47 AM
"Objection your honour, the prosecution is leading the witness!"

"Overruled" ;)
There was some objection about the wording... and to tell the truth i didn't have the chance to read it until i received it in the mail...

auriga
12-04-2005, 09:00 AM
i got the newsletter yesterday.
well done! thought it was great.
serves a very useful purpose, summarising upcoming events, club news, etc.

pax
12-04-2005, 09:43 AM
"Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?"

What's wrong with that question?


Sir Humphrey Appleby would be proud!

rob
12-04-2005, 03:17 PM
Sir Humphrey Appleby would be proud!

I saw a young Nigel Hawthorne (Sir Humphrey Appleby) last night in 'Going Straight' - the sequence to Porridge starring Ronnie Barker. Also in 'Going Straight' (recently released on DVD) was young Nicholas Lyndhurst from No. 1 comedy Only Fools & Horses :)

rob
12-04-2005, 03:21 PM
You could however, have your very nicely produced newsletter available on the website and advise everyone of the link by email once the issue is available. And produce a small number of print versions for those amongst your membership who are unable to access the online version.

Although, if you have the means to make production & distribution an inexpensive process I guess it's not an issue for you but you still might like to save a few trees.
The CAWA is about to go down this path with its bi-monthly 16 page newsletter.

Lucena
12-04-2005, 05:52 PM
Was Tom Accola actually the author of said survey questions?

Bob1
12-04-2005, 07:13 PM
hi all
Not dead yet - but working on it!

Yes I read the newsletter - and it is now in the bin.
(and I am not even a financial member this year - Thanks for the consideration - and sorry - just haven't seen any of you this year)
Great effort producing something readable and getting it out.

Now that I have thrown it out - I can't find it on the NSWCA website to add quotes (do we now have two camps? - or am I missing the link)

I certainly can't justify the 50 cents to reply to the survey (I threw that out too) - but I think I've just voted.

arosar
12-04-2005, 07:21 PM
Bobbbb!! Where the hec have you been man??

AR

Bob1
12-04-2005, 07:47 PM
Bobbbb!! Where the hec have you been man??

AR
Well ....

I changed jobs ( a real one this time!)

And I took up darts - after my (second) last Fairfield Event - not sure you realised I played 2 hours of darts whils I was meant to be watching all the games (no-one complained I delegated the problem)
Darts is a much more social game - something I would like to see more of in chess - but it is a difficult proposition if you are a serious chess player (but no-one ever accused me of that)

I have been watching you all from afar!!

Paul S
12-04-2005, 11:45 PM
Was Tom Accola actually the author of said survey questions?

I doubt it was Tom. Bill Gletsos would be my bet. The following is from the bottom of post number 12 in the thread “NSWCA AGM (28/11/04)”. Also Bill continually rubbished the idea of a NSWCA newsletter elsewhere in that thread (and was the prime mover for having "satisfactory feedback from an opinion survey" as a condition for a NSWCA newsletter to continue after the first issue).


What would you see the benefit of a newsletter being given all the relevant news is covered in Brian's magazine, the newspapers, the ACF bulletin, the NSWCA web site, email and snailmail mailouts.

Here is the first question (thanks Amiel) of the Opinion Survey.


What's also interesting is that the newsletter came with a survey consisting of 3 questions. The first question reads:

"Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?"


Seems to be a bit of similarity!

Hey Starter, care to start up a betting market on the opinion survey author? :lol:

Paul S
13-04-2005, 12:01 AM
i got the newsletter yesterday.
well done! thought it was great.
serves a very useful purpose, summarising upcoming events, club news, etc.

Have had feedback on the Newsletter from a few NSWCA members at Canterbury (Monday night) and St George (Tuesday night). All have told me "well done" on the newsletter and thought it was a worthwhile read and that it was good that the NSWCA decided to do something like this.

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 12:10 AM
I doubt it was Tom. Bill Gletsos would be my bet.You would win money on that bet.
I drafted the questions and copied them to all Council members. Only one Council member commented on question 1 and another commented on question 3.

BTW you have until around mid June to produce the second newsletter. The Council would be planning on mailing it out in mid july in time to advertise the July Weekender.

The following is from the bottom of post number 12 in the thread “NSWCA AGM (28/11/04)”.I note that you never did satisfactorily answer that question from post #12.

Also Bill continually rubbished the idea of a NSWCA newsletter elsewhere in that thread (and was a prime mover for having "satisfactory feedback from an opinion survey" as a condition for a NSWCA newsletter to continue after the first issue).Actually that is totally incorrect.
Bob Sewell made that suggestion.
As per the AGM minutes Bob Sewell suggested that one newsletter be produced and seek members support for continuation.
and
Motion: That Paul Sike produce a newsletter in March 2005 and it be distributed with a questionnaire to members for opinions on continuation of publication. Moved Bob Sewell, seconded Matthew Sweeney) Carried.

Paul S
13-04-2005, 12:16 AM
Newsletter Questionnaire (Opinion Survey) Question 1
Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?

From the “WELCOME TO “NSWCA NEWSLETTER” section of the first page of the NSWCA Newsletter (which was approved and accepted by the NSWCA Council!!!), this question is basically answered as follows……………
The newsletter will aim to:
1) Focus on NSW specific chess information.
2) Add value to NSWCA membership.
3) Supplement existing chess media information.
4) Provide information on issues relevant to those NSWCA members with no (or limited) access to NSW chess information (eg those NSW chess players without internet access).

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 12:26 AM
Opinion Survey Question 1
Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?

From the “WELCOME TO “NSWCA NEWSLETTER” section of the first page of the NSWCA Newsletter (which was approved and accepted by the NSWCA Council!!!), this question is basically answered as follows……………
The newsletter will aim to:
1) Focus on NSW specific chess information.
2) Add value to NSWCA membership.
3) Supplement existing chess media information.
4) Provide information on issues relevant to those NSWCA members with no (or limited) access to NSW chess information (eg those NSW chess players without internet access).That doesnt answer the question at all. It simply states the aim of the newsletter.
If members feel there is sufficient NSW Chess information available from other sources then they may well see no need for a newsletter.

However as I pointed out above, you probably should start working on your draft for the next newsletter so that Council can finalise it at its June meeting.

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 12:28 AM
Have had feedback on the Newsletter from a few NSWCA members at Canterbury (Monday night) and St George (Tuesday night). All have told me "well done" on the newsletter and thought it was a worthwhile read and that it was good that the NSWCA decided to do something like this.In which case they will hopefully respond postivley to the questionaire.

Paul S
13-04-2005, 12:33 AM
You would win money on that bet.
I drafted the questions and copied them to all Council members. Only one Council member commented on question 1 and another commented on question 3.

No surprise to me! ;)


BTW you have until around mid June to produce the second newsletter. The Council would be planning on mailing it out in mid july in time to advertise the July Weekender.

So aren't you going to wait for the results from the "opinion survey with questions structured to get the result you want"? Why did you send it out the first place and waste NSWCA members time and cost of postage stamp (not to mention a few trees)?


I note that you never did satisfactorily answer that question from post #12.


I think the above post of mine answers this quite well.



Actually that is totally incorrect.
Bob Sewell made that suggestion.
As per the AGM minutes Bob Sewell suggested that one newsletter be produced and seek members support for continuation.
and
Motion: That Paul Sike produce a newsletter in March 2005 and it be distributed with a questionnaire to members for opinions on continuation of publication. Moved Bob Sewell, seconded Matthew Sweeney) Carried.

Only after you had done a lot of "ground work" at the meeting in this regard. BTW, I have no objection to an opinion survey for the newsletter per se. I do however have an objection to "opinion surveys" where the questions are deliberately skewed to get a particular result.

Actually, on the front page of the newsletter (in "Welcome to NSWCA Newsletter" section) I had included the following (see paragraph below) which more than adequately covered the aspect of feedback from members after first issue and mentioned this to you, but you were insistent that in addition to this the NSWCA Council would send out its own "opinion survey".

The NSWCA seeks the opinions of its members on the NSWCA newsletter. Should the NSWCA provide a Quarterly Newsletter to its members? What would you like to see in a NSWCA newsletter? Should it be totally devoted to NSW chess matters or would you like to see “extras” such as chess problems in it as well? Would you be prepared to accept a slight increase in 2006 membership fees for a Newsletter to continue in 2006? Also, due to the existing heavy “chess administration workload” of NSWCA Council and others involved with the compilation of this first newsletter, NSWCA is willing to consider any offers of assistance in the production of future issues. Interested parties should forward their ideas/opinions on any aspects of the Newsletter in writing to the NSWCA Secretary Tom Accola either by email to tomaccola@bigpond.com or post to Tom Accola c/- NSWCA GPO Box 2418 SYDNEY 2001.

Paul S
13-04-2005, 12:40 AM
In which case they will hopefully respond postivley to the questionaire.

Its a bit hard to respond positively to a questionnaire in which the questions are slanted to get a negative response!

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 12:57 AM
So aren't you going to wait for the results from the "opinion survey with questions structured to get the result you want"?The question is valid. There are already multiple sources for NSW chess information. However it would be silly to wait for responses before going ahead with issue 2 as this would make it extremely difficult to meet the June deadline.

Why did you send it out the first place and waste NSWCA members time and cost of postage stamp (not to mention a few trees)?Because we want to guage the reaction. After all the AGM motion was not binding on Council and if we really had no desire to try it out we could have decided so at our January Council meeting to not procedd with the newsletter.

I think the above post of mine answers this quite well.I disagree.

Only after you had done a lot of "ground work" at the meeting in this regard.Actually I didnt do any "ground work" with regards Bob's suggestion of a questionaire. What I did was voice the opinion expressed to me by Amiel and others who were opposed to the newsletter.
However after Bob made his suggestion I did support it.

BTW, I have no objection to an opinion survey for the newsletter per se. I do however have an objection to "opinion surveys" where the questions are deliberately skewed to get a particular result.The question isnt skewed. There are numerous sources for NSW chess information and the question reminds the members of this fact.

Actually, on the front page of the newsletter (in "Welcome to NSWCA Newsletter" section) I had included the following (see paragraph below) which more than adequately covered the aspect of feedback from members after first issue and mentioned this to you, but you were insistent that in addition to this the NSWCA Council would send out its own "opinion survey".The Council informed you that would it send a questionaire the members. We specifically wanted to know the answer to the three questions asked.

Paul S
13-04-2005, 12:57 AM
Most people these days have email or internet access. This is why I am opposed to the idea of this newsletter. I think it's a waste of resources. The funds could be better spent on an improved website or whatever.

AR

:hmm: Interesting. :hmm:

Amiel is opposed to the use of 4 x A4 pages (on two double-sided A4 pages for a newsletter), but is completely silent about the 6 x single-sided A4 pages that came out with the newsletter promoting upcoming NSWCA tournaments. He says nothing about the wastage of 2 x A4 pages (one for flyer and one for entry form) for May Weekender (and for that matter for 2005 NSW Open) which could easily fit onto a single page (or better still fit May Weekender flyer + entry form and NSW Open flyer + entry form onto one double-sided A4 page - instead of 4 x single A4 pages at present).

Amiel also says nothing about receiving previous NSWCA tournament flyer and entry form mailouts by snail mail that he has already received by email! Some parts of these mailouts were extremely wasteful of paper - for instance the January 2005 one had 1 x single sided A4 page for the NSW Open flyer (held in June 2005!!!) and one 1 x single sided A4 page for the NSW Open entry form.

:hmm: Why is this? :hmm:

:hmm: Why is Amiel opposed to a Newsletter for NSWCA members but silent on NSWCA tournament flyers? :hmm:

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 12:58 AM
Its a bit hard to respond positively to a questionnaire in which the questions are slanted to get a negative response!
NSW chess information appears in many areas.
As such Question 1 gives an actual statement of fact.

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 01:08 AM
:hmm: Interesting. :hmm:

Amiel is opposed to the use of 4 x A4 pages (on two double-sided A4 pages for a newsletter), but is completely silent about the 6 x single-sided A4 pages that came out with the newsletter promoting upcoming NSWCA tournaments. He says nothing about the wastage of 2 x A4 pages (one for flyer and one for entry form) for May Weekender (and for that matter for 2005 NSW Open) which could easily fit onto a single page (or better still fit May Weekender flyer + entry form and NSW Open flyer + entry form onto one double-sided A4 page - instead of 4 x single A4 pages at present).You cannot double side it with the May advert on one side and the SW Open on the other. If the player enters the May weekender and sends his entry form in, then if he decides closer to the NSW Open that he wants to enter it, he no longer has the entry form for th it as it was on the other side of the form he sent in for the may weekender.

As for fitting the adverts on a single page we dont want to use small fonts to achieve that. We want the adverts to be easily readable.

However you seem to fail to realise that the NSWCA is there to provide tournament chess opportunites for its members. As such advertising our tournaments both via snail mail and email is desirable.


Amiel also says nothing about receiving previous NSWCA tournament flyer and entry form mailouts by snail mail that he has already received by email! Some parts of these mailouts were extremely wasteful of paper - for instance the January 2005 one had 1 x single sided A4 page for the NSW Open flyer (held in June 2005!!!) and one 1 x single sided A4 page for the NSW Open entry form.

:hmm: Why is this? :hmm:Where did Amiel even once mention wasting paper. He referred to wasting resources and suggests the money could be better spent elsewhere instead of on a newsletter.

Paul S
13-04-2005, 01:17 AM
ACTJCL produces a weekly email bulletin for members with results, upcoming events, general news etc.

...........(snip)............

Perhaps you could survey your membership to determine the demand for a paper version and the capacity for most members to access such an item online? We email the Bulletin to all members but link to photos or other items rather than reproduce them in the bulletin (including images etc sometimes leads to us being blocked by recipients or being too "big" for some mailboxes).


Sounds like a reasonable idea. Take it up with Bill! ;)


You could however, have your very nicely produced newsletter available on the website and advise everyone of the link by email once the issue is available. And produce a small number of print versions for those amongst your membership who are unable to access the online version.


I think having it accessible to "all and sundry" defeats the purpose of having a newsletter for members.

However, I have no problem with (as has been suggested/implied by various people in this thread) that an electronic copy be emailed to those members with email addresses (although this does have a drawback in that some people's email address changes from time to time and some people have trouble receiving certain types of emails due to firewalls etc) with snail mail used only for those members who do not have email.


Although, if you have the means to make production & distribution an inexpensive process I guess it's not an issue for you but you still might like to save a few trees.

Like you, I don't like trees being wasted unneccessarily. I have no objection to newsletters (and tournament flyers) being sent by:
1) Email to those members who have email addresses (viz NO "snail mail" to them).
2) Post to those members who don't have email.

BTW, for the last year or more NSWCA members with email addresses have been sent tournament flyers by both email AND "snail mail".

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 01:22 AM
BTW, for the last year or more NSWCA members with email addresses have been sent tournament flyers by both email AND "snail mail".Actually what we have generally done is snail mail all members with the tournament flyers and then closer to the actual tournament date email all those members with email addresses with a copy of that tournaments flyer.

This years NSW Open was a special case as we wished to start advertising it from the start of the year as we see it as our major weekend event.

Paul S
13-04-2005, 01:47 AM
You cannot double side it with the May advert on one side and the SW Open on the other. If the player enters the May weekender and sends his entry form in, then if he decides closer to the NSW Open that he wants to enter it, he no longer has the entry form for th it as it was on the other side of the form he sent in for the may weekender.


Only a very small percentage of chess players actually use the entry form - most just pay on the day! The one or two who would be affected could just make a photocopy of one of the entry forms. Or else perhaps put the flyers (tournament information) for 2 (or more) tournaments on one double-sided A4 and say 3 entry forms on one single-sided A4 if this is such a concern?

Personally I can see no reason why the entry form cannot be dispensed with altogether and just state on the flyer something to the effect "for early entry discount ring XXXX or email YYYY before DD/MM/2005 and pay on the day" and leave it at that). BTW, the entry forms are still badly worded as to how to pre-register - in one part it seems to imply that you have to post a cheque to NSWCA PO Box in order to play but in another suggests using phone or email to pre-register (which has caused confusion for some chess players and hinders likelihood of tournament participation for those players who do not have cheque accounts).


As for fitting the adverts on a single page we dont want to use small fonts to achieve that. We want the adverts to be easily readable.

You can easily fit information for 2 tournaments onto 1 x A4 page by using better layout and by getting rid of superfluous information.


However you seem to fail to realise that the NSWCA is there to provide tournament chess opportunites for its members. As such advertising our tournaments both via snail mail and email is desirable.

Some people in this tread have suggested that it is wasteful (of trees) to send snail mail to those people who have already been sent the same information via email. Despite what you think, this is a valid argument!


Where did Amiel even once mention wasting paper. He referred to wasting resources and suggests the money could be better spent elsewhere instead of on a newsletter.

He implied it.

Bill Gletsos
13-04-2005, 02:02 AM
Only a very small percentage of chess players actually use the entry form - most just pay on the day! The one or two who would be affected could just make a photocopy of one of the entry forms. Or else perhaps put the flyers (tournament information) for 2 (or more) tournaments on one double-sided A4 and say 3 entry forms on one single-sided A4 if this is such a concern?Who said it was a concern. It isnt for the Council. You were the one complaining about the sheets.

Personally I can see no reason why the entry form cannot be dispensed with altogether and just state on the flyer something to the effect "for early entry discount ring XXXX or email YYYY before DD/MM/2005 and pay on the day" and leave it at that). BTW, the entry forms are still badly worded as to how to pre-register - in one part it seems to imply that you have to post a cheque to NSWCA PO Box in order to play but in another suggests using phone or email to pre-register (which has caused confusion for some chess players and hinders likelihood of tournament participation for those players who do not have cheque accounts).Not at all. The tournament advert makes it clear you only need to pre-register. It makes no mention of paying.
The entry form naturally tells people who cheques need to be made out to.

You can easily fit information for 2 tournaments onto 1 x A4 page by using better layout and by getting rid of superfluous information.What you may well see as superflous the Council does not. Can I ask how many tournament flyers you have actually ever designed.

Some people in this tread have suggested that it is wasteful (of trees) to send snail mail to those people who have already been sent the same information via email. Despite what you think, this is a valid argument!As i mentioned in another post the emails are sent well after the snail mailing of the flyers and closer to the actual tournament dates.
However the Council is trying to maximise participation. As such it will advertise how it sees fit to achieve this

He implied it.He didnt imply it at all.

arosar
13-04-2005, 06:34 AM
:hmm: Why is Amiel opposed to a Newsletter for NSWCA members but silent on NSWCA tournament flyers? :hmm:

Huh? I have already commented on this a long time ago. I think it's in the NSW Prez thread. Let me remind what I said to you a long time ago as well Paulie. I don't explain myself to you.

AR

arosar
13-04-2005, 07:11 AM
1) Email to those members who have email addresses (viz NO "snail mail" to them).
2) Post to those members who don't have email.

Whether you email or post the entry forms, at some point in the process, someone needs to print them. By sending out the entry forms to members, the NSWCA is doing them a favour - a service. You are correct in saying that most people just turn up and pay on the day. I am one of those people. This may be because entry forms are so badly designed - as you cited. In my case, I'm too damn busy to think about sending an early entry for a chess tournament.

There is a way in which entry forms could actually be made useful as a marketing tool and to drive up entries. For example, by encouraging early entries. Another way is to provide discounts based on number of tournaments entered. So if player X enters 5 tournaments, say, he gets 20% discount, say, on the total entry fees. Entry forms also record a transaction: (1) that money is exchanged and (2) by signing, the player agrees to abide by all conditions set for the tournament(s).

All in all, what I'm saying is this: while you can do away with your newsletter completely, it's not a good idea to do away with entry forms at all.

AR

Rincewind
13-04-2005, 09:43 AM
Amiel is opposed to the use of 4 x A4 pages (on two double-sided A4 pages for a newsletter), but is completely silent about the 6 x single-sided A4 pages that came out with the newsletter promoting upcoming NSWCA tournaments. He says nothing about the wastage of 2 x A4 pages (one for flyer and one for entry form) for May Weekender (and for that matter for 2005 NSW Open) which could easily fit onto a single page (or better still fit May Weekender flyer + entry form and NSW Open flyer + entry form onto one double-sided A4 page - instead of 4 x single A4 pages at present).

I need a lot of scrap paper and all single sided a4 sheets are re-used at my place (by writing on the back) before they are recycled. From my point of view, printing the newletter on single sided paper would have made it more useful. ;)

However, if the club news section grows then it would be a useful addition to the NSWCA's communications. Although to save cost I would prefer to receive my copy via email.

Spiny Norman
13-04-2005, 08:36 PM
Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?

Perhaps a "fairer" way of asking the question above might've been:

Q1. I support the production of a quarterly, printed newsletter, delivered by post, in addition to existing methods of communication such as websites, email and newspaper columns:

[ ] strongly agree
[ ] somewhat agree
[ ] neither agree nor disagree
[ ] somewhat disagree
[ ] strongly disagree

Why? __________________________________________________ ______

__________________________________________________ ___________

Making it "black and white" seems a rather narrow approach.

auriga
14-04-2005, 10:18 AM
with the nswca newsletter,
if the newsletter is a waster of resources (too expensive or requires too much man-power to produce)
then my question would be what else should the nswca do as part of it's marketing activities
to increase membership, club/tournament participation, activity, etc???

the website is maintained well by mal.
however, web as a medium is a pull technology (it relies on the user to navigate to the website and find the information that they want. this in itself can be a challenge to many!!)
whereas print or email is pushed to the user so they feel compelled to open and see whats inside!
a combination of email and print seems a good ideal to me as well as forwarded to the journalists
(peter parr column, acf newsletter, etc)

the nswca has to contact it's 500 or so members at least yearly right(?) so they can renew and send back the fees cheque.
so a newsletter in iteself is worthwhile doing at least yearly as the postage cost would not be there!
however, quarterly seems much better to summarise upcoming tournaments, having currently active player profiles, etc.

i reckon the nswca at the annual meeting should decide on a budget for the year for marketing (maybe this is the way they do already!?).
it maybe a percentage of the bank/bond interest from previous year.
as long as the newsletter, website and other marketing activities are done within this budget then its ok.

also, my gut feeling is that the public in general don't like (and don't respond) to questionnaires at all (i go down george st and always get hounded to do questionnaires :( if anything the questionnaire should be put into something that people have to fill out eg. the membership form each year?!
also, have some incentive ie. lucky dip form will be given free membership worth $25 or so.
otherwise i reckon no-one would reply to it.

having said that, if the newsletter was canned by comittee i wouldn't be too perturbed but it look like an ok idea to boost activity to me. :hmm:

Paul S
14-04-2005, 05:21 PM
I need a lot of scrap paper and all single sided a4 sheets are re-used at my place (by writing on the back) before they are recycled. From my point of view, printing the newletter on single sided paper would have made it more useful. ;)

Sounds like you should send an email to the NSWCA Council requesting that any future "NSWCA Newsletters" be printed on one side only! ;)

Paul S
14-04-2005, 05:30 PM
Huh? I have already commented on this a long time ago. I think it's in the NSW Prez thread.

Can't see anything in the "NSW Prez" thread. Can you show me the post(s) in question?

I just find it a bit odd that you have been somewhat critical of the "NSWCA Newsletter" (both now and in the past) but I cannot recall any posts where you have criticised the NSWCA tournament flyer mailouts, except for parts of post #39 in this thread (and if you have criticised them, then it has been nowhere near as much as your criticisms of the newsletter).


Let me remind what I said to you a long time ago as well Paulie. I don't explain myself to you.

I've noticed! :rolleyes:

Paul S
14-04-2005, 05:39 PM
Whether you email or post the entry forms, at some point in the process, someone needs to print them. By sending out the entry forms to members, the NSWCA is doing them a favour - a service. You are correct in saying that most people just turn up and pay on the day. I am one of those people. This may be because entry forms are so badly designed - as you cited. In my case, I'm too damn busy to think about sending an early entry for a chess tournament.

There is a way in which entry forms could actually be made useful as a marketing tool and to drive up entries. For example, by encouraging early entries. Another way is to provide discounts based on number of tournaments entered. So if player X enters 5 tournaments, say, he gets 20% discount, say, on the total entry fees. Entry forms also record a transaction: (1) that money is exchanged and (2) by signing, the player agrees to abide by all conditions set for the tournament(s).

I generally agree with what you say!


All in all, what I'm saying is this: while you can do away with your newsletter completely, it's not a good idea to do away with entry forms at all.

:hand: :naughty: You have got it the wrong way around! ;) :lol: Its the entry forms that should go, not the newsletter! ;) :lol:

arosar
14-04-2005, 06:04 PM
:hand: :naughty: You have got it the wrong way around! ;) :lol: Its the entry forms that should go, not the newsletter! ;) :lol:

The newsletter will go. I know this.

AR

Paul S
14-04-2005, 06:16 PM
Who said it was a concern. It isnt for the Council. You were the one complaining about the sheets.


Others earlier in this thread mentioned it as a concern.


Not at all. The tournament advert makes it clear you only need to pre-register. It makes no mention of paying. The entry form naturally tells people who cheques need to be made out to.


Try explaining that to chess players who have asked me whether or not they need to send a cheque to the NSWCA in order to play! You seem to forget that:
1) For 6 months in 2003 I was the chief contact person for tournament (and general) enquiries for the NSWCA.
2) I am one of the main organisers at two chess clubs (Canterbury and St George).
In both these capacities I regularly got/get asked in relation to NSWCA tournaments "do I need to send a cheque", "is it OK to pay by cash on the day as I don't have a cheque account" etc.


What you may well see as superflous the Council does not. Can I ask how many tournament flyers you have actually ever designed.


I have designed two tournament flyers in late 2003.

At the suggestion/request of Peter Cassetari I redesigned the flyer of the 2003 NSW Rapidplay (the one that was played at St George over 3 successive Wednesday nights). I believe (I could be wrong on this) that my redesigned flyer was copied via email to other NSWCA Council members. Unfortunately (due to Peter being overloaded with chess admin and other commitments) he sent out the usual standard clumsy NSWCA tournament flyer for this event (which contained more flaws than the usual clumsy NSWCA flyer). I complained to Peter afterwards and he apologised for not having used my flyer (which I had spent a fair bit of time working on). Peter said he was impressed by what I had done and said that it would be used as a shell for future NSWCA tournaments. However, for whatever reasons this never eventuated.

While my flyer was considerably superior to the usual clumsy NSWCA tournament flyer (IMHO just about anyone with half a brain could do a better job than the standard NSWCA tournament flyer), I readily acknowledge that others in the chess community can do better tournament flyers than me! Jason Lyons comes readily to mind (with his flyers for a couple of the Australia Day Weekend tournaments). Why the NSWCA don't use Jason's past work on tournament flyers as a shell for their tournaments has got me beat.

While redesinging the flyer for the NSWCA 2003 rapidplay and being "in the mood" I also redesigned (on my own initiative) the flyer for the 2003 Fairfield Summer Cup. I presented it to the then Fairfield Cup organiser (Bob Keast) who seemed quite pleased but from recollection Bob said something like it was "too late" as the ads had already been placed on NSWCA website and other places.


As i mentioned in another post the emails are sent well after the snail mailing of the flyers and closer to the actual tournament dates.
However the Council is trying to maximise participation. As such it will advertise how it sees fit to achieve this

:hmm: The NSWCA Council (or should I say the NSWCA President) always knows best?! :hmm: The NSWCA Council (or should I say the NSWCA President) is always right?! :hmm:


He didnt imply it at all.

Only in your opinion.

Paul S
14-04-2005, 06:18 PM
The newsletter will go. I know this.

AR

:hmm: Do you have some "inside information"? :hmm:

Paul S
14-04-2005, 06:20 PM
with the nswca newsletter,
if the newsletter is a waster of resources (too expensive or requires too much man-power to produce)
then my question would be what else should the nswca do as part of it's marketing activities
to increase membership, club/tournament participation, activity, etc???

the website is maintained well by mal.
however, web as a medium is a pull technology (it relies on the user to navigate to the website and find the information that they want. this in itself can be a challenge to many!!)
whereas print or email is pushed to the user so they feel compelled to open and see whats inside!
a combination of email and print seems a good ideal to me as well as forwarded to the journalists
(peter parr column, acf newsletter, etc)

the nswca has to contact it's 500 or so members at least yearly right(?) so they can renew and send back the fees cheque.
so a newsletter in iteself is worthwhile doing at least yearly as the postage cost would not be there!
however, quarterly seems much better to summarise upcoming tournaments, having currently active player profiles, etc.

i reckon the nswca at the annual meeting should decide on a budget for the year for marketing (maybe this is the way they do already!?).
it maybe a percentage of the bank/bond interest from previous year.
as long as the newsletter, website and other marketing activities are done within this budget then its ok.

also, my gut feeling is that the public in general don't like (and don't respond) to questionnaires at all (i go down george st and always get hounded to do questionnaires :( if anything the questionnaire should be put into something that people have to fill out eg. the membership form each year?!
also, have some incentive ie. lucky dip form will be given free membership worth $25 or so.
otherwise i reckon no-one would reply to it.

having said that, if the newsletter was canned by comittee i wouldn't be too perturbed but it look like an ok idea to boost activity to me. :hmm:

Good points raised by The Method Man ( :hmm: Nick Kordahi? :hmm: ).

:clap: :clap: :clap:

ursogr8
14-04-2005, 08:13 PM
Good points raised by The Method Man ( :hmm: Nick Kordahi? :hmm: ).

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Paul S

Even the Mexicans know who The method man is.

Here is a hint (actually a queue of clues)
> someone posted in the SHOUTBOX today, but you can't see him in the members list. In fact if he could get onto the members list he would be on his own, because The Method Man used to be the only one in that category until the name change.


starter

Bill Gletsos
14-04-2005, 08:25 PM
The newsletter will go. I know this.Actually I believe it will continue at least this year provided someone is prepared to do the work of putting it together.

Bill Gletsos
14-04-2005, 08:32 PM
Others earlier in this thread mentioned it as a concern.Who from NSW

:hmm: The NSWCA Council (or should I say the NSWCA President) always knows best?! :hmm: The NSWCA Council (or should I say the NSWCA President) is always right?! :hmm:Actually it is the Council Members who believe that the snail mailing of our tournament flyers leads to greater participation than just emailing alone. I just happen to agree with them.

Only in your opinion.Perhaps you can point to where AR explicitly agrees with you regarding the tournament flyers.

Rincewind
14-04-2005, 08:44 PM
Here is a hint (actually a queue of clues)
> someone posted in the SHOUTBOX today, but you can't see him in the members list. In fact if he could get onto the members list he would be on his own, because The Method Man used to be the only one in that category until the name change.

Starter, you should really learn to be more DISCRETE.

ursogr8
14-04-2005, 10:33 PM
But Baz

TMM has not made a secret of it.
Is that discrete enough?!


starter

Paul S
14-04-2005, 11:58 PM
Who from NSW

The Wise Man (refer post 10 - last paragraph).

Also it appears that Amiel does also (see post 11 - his reply to The Wise Man).


Actually it is the Council Members who believe that the snail mailing of our tournament flyers leads to greater participation than just emailing alone. I just happen to agree with them.

The NSWCA Council is entitled to do what it thinks is best. However, some NSWCA members would see it as an unneccessary duplication and cost (and cutting down of trees for paper) to send tournament flyers and newsletters etc by snail mail if they have already received them by email.


Perhaps you can point to where AR explicitly agrees with you regarding the tournament flyers.

Me and Amiel agree on some aspects. Refer posts 39 and 45 of this thread.

Bill Gletsos
15-04-2005, 12:03 AM
The Wise Man (refer post 10 - last paragraph).You seem to have forgotten what you were even talking about. My lack of concern message was in respoonse to your comments re entry forms and tournament flyers.
The wise man is talking about the newsletter being on paper. He makes no mention at all about the tournament flyers.

Also it appears that Amiel does also (see post 11 - his reply to The Wise Man).Amiel makes no mention at all about the tournament flyers.

As such posts #10 and #11 are irrelevant as they have nothing to do with tournament flyers.

The NSWCA Council is entitled to do what it thinks is best. However, some NSWCA members would see it as an unneccessary duplication and cost (and cutting down of trees for paper) to send tournament flyers and newsletters etc by snail mail if they have already received them by email.They havent already received them by email prior to the snail mail. The emails came after the snail mail, and in most cases well after the snail mail.


Me and Amiel agree on some aspects. Refer posts 39 and 45 of this thread.In those posts Amiel is in no way supporting your view that the entry forms/tournament flyers are a waste of paper.

Rincewind
15-04-2005, 12:14 AM
TMM has not made a secret of it.
Is that discrete enough?!

I said "discrete" not "discreet". There is a difference. ;)

Paul S
15-04-2005, 12:33 AM
You seem to have forgotten what you were even talking about.

It gets a bit confusing sometimes with all these "replies to replies"! :D


In those posts Amiel is in no way supporting your view that the entry forms/tournament flyers are a waste of paper.

I never explicitly said that the mailout of tournament flyers was a waste of paper (although I think the entry forms could be dispensed with for reasons in post 36).

However, I did suggest in post 31 that the "snail mailed" flyers could take up less space and both sides of an A4 page be printed on (instead of just one side) for the flyers. I also said in post 34 that I have no problem with snail mail (for newsletters, flyers etc) only being used for those members without email (like they appear to have in the ACT Juniors).

WhiteElephant
15-04-2005, 12:40 AM
If the Newsletter went out in email format, I'd be interested in receiving one here in Mexico. However, if only printed in hard copy, it would onviously not be cost effective to send all over Australia.
I am sure others outside NSW (chess administrators, those travelling around for tournaments, etc) would also be interested in receiving iit as an email.

W.E.

Paul S
15-04-2005, 12:40 AM
Paul S

Even the Mexicans know who The method man is.

Here is a hint (actually a queue of clues)
> someone posted in the SHOUTBOX today, but you can't see him in the members list. In fact if he could get onto the members list he would be on his own, because The Method Man used to be the only one in that category until the name change.


starter

Thanks Trevor. The Method Man would appear to be "the poster formerly known as Quanta".

Gets a bit confusing at times when posters change their user names!

arosar
15-04-2005, 06:36 AM
Me and Amiel agree on some aspects.

Look here Paulie, if you're going to edit this bloody newsletter - it's "Amiel and I". OK?

AR

ursogr8
15-04-2005, 09:00 AM
I said "discrete" not "discreet". There is a difference. ;)

hi Baz

Having made a 75% ass of myself by misreading as 'discreet', I think I will go for the hole whog and ask " now that I see you mean discrete...then what did you mean"? I actually don't get your post?

regards
starter

Rincewind
15-04-2005, 10:06 AM
Having made a 75% ass of myself by misreading as 'discreet', I think I will go for the hole whog and ask " now that I see you mean discrete...then what did you mean"? I actually don't get your post?

qua'nt|um n. (pl. ~a) (Phys.) discrete unit quantity of energy proportional to frequency of radiation; ~um mechanics, theory, etc., (making use of assumption that energy exists in this form).

Source: The Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary (1988)

Lucena
15-04-2005, 11:13 AM
Perhaps a "fairer" way of asking the question above might've been:

Q1. I support the production of a quarterly, printed newsletter, delivered by post, in addition to existing methods of communication such as websites, email and newspaper columns:

[ ] strongly agree
[ ] somewhat agree
[ ] neither agree nor disagree
[ ] somewhat disagree
[ ] strongly disagree

Why? __________________________________________________ ______

__________________________________________________ ___________



I agree. There is a protocol with writing survey questions that you do not ask them in such a way that appears to expect a particular answer and that protocol was clearly not followed in this case.

ursogr8
15-04-2005, 11:32 AM
qua'nt|um n. (pl. ~a) (Phys.) discrete unit quantity of energy proportional to frequency of radiation; ~um mechanics, theory, etc., (making use of assumption that energy exists in this form).

Source: The Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary (1988)

thanks Baz

I feel terribly embarrassed missing your connection.
Quite droll.

I think I was too involved in weaving my own web for Paul S.
Hope we don't have a norm title for denseness; I fear I may have earnt my first points. :doh: :uhoh:

starter

Rincewind
15-04-2005, 11:54 AM
I think I was too involved in weaving my own web for Paul S.
Hope we don't have a norm title for denseness; I fear I may have earnt my first points. :doh: :uhoh:

Don't worry. You can have them expunged from your record by attempting the rec. math puzzle ( http://chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=53482#post53482 ). The yellow jersey is still available.

Paul S
24-04-2005, 04:58 PM
If members feel there is sufficient NSW Chess information available from other sources then they may well see no need for a newsletter.

However as I pointed out above, you probably should start working on your draft for the next newsletter so that Council can finalise it at its June meeting.

I acknowledge recently receiving a PM from Bill regarding the newsletter and the slightly conciliatory tone of it. As such, I will not be as severe in my response as I was originally planning. Besides, I don’t want to criticise too much people (ie NSWCA Council) who volunteer considerable time for the benefit of NSW chess (and most of whom have a chess admin record well in excess of mine!). While I have my disagreements with some aspects of the way NSWCA Council do things, I am nonetheless appreciative of their voluntary chess admin efforts and their donating their time towards this cause.

After some thought over the last 2 weeks I have decided to resign from producing a newsletter for the NSWCA.

While I doubt that there will be enough respondents to the slanted opinion survey (questionnaire) to be statistically significant, I expect that there will be a majority of respondents against the continuation of the “NSWCA Newsletter” due to the bias in its questions towards a negative outcome which will justify (in the eyes of the majority of NSWCA Council) the closure of the NSWCA Newsletter. As such I see no point in expending time and effort producing a June issue only to see it close shortly afterward due to the results of the slanted “Opinion Survey”. Personally I believe that the 3 questions in the Questionnaire do not deserve a response and I would encourage NSWCA members to boycott this blatantly biased questionnaire, which is structured to elicit a negative response.

For the majority of NSWCA Council to approve of such a blatantly biased opinion survey (ie designed to give a negative response) to be sent to their members indicates to me that they do not want a newsletter to continue and are using this as an excuse to get rid of it.

I had gone to considerable effort in the Newsletter to avoid duplication with what already exists in the “Australian chess media”, so I am mystified as to why such a question about “duplication of existing Australian chess information” was included in the first place! The only bit of duplication of existing chess information that I can see is in the calendar – which is something the NSWCA Council (not me!) insisted on!

I have been disappointed with the lack of support from NSWCA Council for the Newsletter (although a couple of Council members were interested in the idea and expressed their support to me) such as waiting about 8 weeks for a response to questions about the Newsletter that I asked in early December (which made me come close to quitting the project before it had even started). However, I acknowledge that between approximately mid-February to mid-March things seemed to be going reasonably well between me and NSWCA Council as far as the Newsletter is concerned. An example of the lack of support was the refusal of NSWCA Council members to have profiles done of themselves (instead I was instructed to get profiles of other “chess identities” such as Peter Parr and Brian Jones).

As the main editor/collator of the newsletter I did not appreciate the lack of respect shown to me by NSWCA Council by not showing me (and seeking my opinion/approval on) the Newsletter Questionnaire before it was sent to members. I also do not see the need for such a questionnaire when an invitation for feedback was clearly made on the front page of the Newsletter.

So, if someone wants to take over, here is your chance, although ideally (for practical and other reasons) a NSWCA Council member should be doing the job of producing a “NSWCA Newsletter”.

Don_Harrison
24-04-2005, 07:00 PM
Paul S,

I have been observing the discussion about the newsletter and the questionaire. Having developed and conducted a few surveys, I would have to say that, in the format it was presented, it may not have passed the first scan by an ethics committee as the questions did not appear satisy any validation scale due to the apparant slant towards the negative.

I tend to agree that a printed version of an organisations activities is necessary for the simple reason that despite the increasing use of the internet, there is a danger that invalid assumptions will be made. For example, it is incorrect that all information is readily assesible to everyone via electronic media.

One should never assume that all people have access to the internet either at home or through public facilities or that they are confident in using it. There is a direct cost involved in that. In addition, I have had dealings with 90 yo's who teach others how to use a computer and with 20 yo's who cannot even use an ATM to access their funds in the bank. It would be foolhardy to assume that chess players are any different in that regard.

As a result, any organisation should cater for those who can use an elctronic format and those who cannot. It is not all that difficult to ask ALL members their prefered method of receiving information and then to cater for that prefrence. Heck, it can even be included on any membership application form. And then the organisation simply budgets for that prefence.

As for the inclusion of the question without refence to yourself, that is a matter for the editorial committee as opposed to the person who produces the newsletter but, again, I certainly appreciate your annoyance and frustration with the process.

I do hope that the matter is resolved amicallby else it will give the poor impression that some of those on high could not organise a tree-root in a bordello with a fistfull of $100 notes.

firegoat7
25-04-2005, 04:49 AM
I do hope that the matter is resolved amicallby else it will give the poor impression that some of those on high could not organise a tree-root in a bordello with a fistfull of $100 notes.

LOL.

Cheers Fg7

auriga
26-04-2005, 01:21 PM
After some thought over the last 2 weeks I have decided to resign from producing a newsletter for the NSWCA.


paul. aren't you going to wait for the results of the questionnaire to be tabulated first - i'd be interested to know the results first?!

i thought the questionnaire was fairly innoculous.
however, if the response is say less than 5% it wouldn't be too meaningful.

reading through this thread i still can't see the answer to the question:
if i was a nswca member but didn't have net access how would i find out about nswca events or results?!

btw, i thought you were going to do another issue just to tell arosar he wasn't right! :cool:

arosar
26-04-2005, 02:29 PM
btw, i thought you were going to do another issue just to tell arosar he wasn't right! :cool:

And Bill was actually planning to contribute an essay too. About ratings!

But I wish Paulie here would stop this martyrdom-syndrome.

AR

Bill Gletsos
26-04-2005, 02:36 PM
And Bill was actually planning to contribute an essay too. About ratings!Actually it was about the new FIDE rules that come into effect from 1st July.

arosar
26-04-2005, 02:40 PM
Oh yeah. I forgot!

AR

Trent Parker
26-04-2005, 03:07 PM
Actually it was about the new FIDE rules that come into effect from 1st July.

... and it still might...

If we cannot pursuade Mr Sike to continue....I shall (somewhat reluctantly) pick up the ball and run with it....

antichrist
26-04-2005, 04:13 PM
Paulie is definitely a One-Round-Wonder. After your turn TCN it is my turn, okay? I expect not to resign after one round but to be hounded out.

Paul, you should have adopted my strategy, keep producing it because you know they don't want it. You will never reach Anti-Christ status!

auriga
27-04-2005, 09:33 AM
After your turn TCN it is my turn, okay? I expect not to resign after one round but to be hounded out.

a/c, something to look forward to!
as long as you doing ruin it with your religious guff.

Paul S
03-05-2005, 10:35 PM
paul. aren't you going to wait for the results of the questionnaire to be tabulated first - i'd be interested to know the results first?!

Hi Method Man (Lee Jones, I think)

I didn't see a need to wait for the results, as the questions were slanted towards a negative response.

However, I have had a bit of private communication with Bill and Trent which appear to indicate that (somewhat to my surprise), the questionnaire response was favourable towards the newsletter (despite the skewed questions).


i thought the questionnaire was fairly innoculous.
however, if the response is say less than 5% it wouldn't be too meaningful.


You are entitled to your opinion; however most others in this thread saw the questionnaire the same way I did.

Don't know what the response rate was, but I agree with you that if it was less than 5% then it would be rather meaningless.


reading through this thread i still can't see the answer to the question:
if i was a nswca member but didn't have net access how would i find out about nswca events or results?!

Ask the NSWCA Council! ;) :lol: :cool:


btw, i thought you were going to do another issue just to tell arosar he wasn't right! :cool:

Amiel's opinions were not the issue (although the thought did cross my mind to keep going with another issue because of Amiel's criticisims) - the issues in post 67 in this thread were. Anyway, Amiel is OK in person (despite some of his BB posts) and he is entitled to his opinion.

I won't be doing the June issue (Trent Parker has agreed to do that), although there is a possibility that I will do (or partly do) the one after that (pending a satisfactory response from NSWCA Council to a recent email I sent them which was similar in content to post 67 in this thread).

Bill Gletsos
03-05-2005, 11:14 PM
I won't be doing the June issue (Trent Parker has agreed to do that), although there is a possibility that I will do (or partly do) the one after that (pending a satisfactory response from NSWCA Council to a recent email I sent them which was similar in content to post 67 in this thread).Actually your post #67 was pretty much your email to the Council.

I would have thought you should have informed the Council of your decision to resign as the newsltter editor before deciding to announce it on the BB.
Perhaps you feel this BB is somehow an official communications medium. It isnt.

The Council noted receipt of your email at its April Council meeting, and as a result appointed Trent as the new newletter editor.

Bill Gletsos
03-05-2005, 11:28 PM
reading through this thread i still can't see the answer to the question:
if i was a nswca member but didn't have net access how would i find out about nswca events or results?!All forthcoming events are advertised by snail mail. The newsletter is unrelated to that.

Duff McKagan
04-05-2005, 09:02 AM
All forthcoming events are advertised by snail mail. The newsletter is unrelated to that.

Shouldnt the newsletter go out with the ads in the same envelope? That would be sensible wouldnt it? That would mean that the total extra cost would be about 1 or 2 hundred bucks a year in photocopy out of a budget of about $7,000.

I dont see myself getting too uptight over 2% of my membership fee going into a newsletter. I suppose I am coming in a bit late on this debate but it seems pretty petty that anyone would do something to nobble it. :uhoh:

Cheers

Bill Gletsos
04-05-2005, 09:18 AM
Shouldnt the newsletter go out with the ads in the same envelope? That would be sensible wouldnt it? That would mean that the total extra cost would be about 1 or 2 hundred bucks a year in photocopy out of a budget of about $7,000.The adverts and the newsletter did go out in the same envelope. What I was getting at was that the newsletter was unrelated to the tournament adverts.

I dont see myself getting too uptight over 2% of my membership fee going into a newsletter. I suppose I am coming in a bit late on this debate but it seems pretty petty that anyone would do something to nobble it. :uhoh:Irrespective what Paul Sike thinks the questionaire was not designed to nobble it.

Duff McKagan
04-05-2005, 12:21 PM
Irrespective what Paul Sike thinks the questionaire was not designed to nobble it.

ok fair enough. Even if the questionaire was not deliberately designed that way it had that effect. Maybe you had someone in the council who has skills in questionaire design or maybe not. If not maybe the council should outsource work that it is not competent to undertake.

If the council wants help it never asks for expert help from its members. It would be no great problem to stick a list of small to medium jobs in with the tournie notices begging for help. Its not as if it doesn't need someone to find a venue for the Purdy or write and collate questionaires or suck more juniors into the opens etc. I guess there will be some requests for help in the next newsletter then :cool:

Bill Gletsos
04-05-2005, 01:15 PM
ok fair enough. Even if the questionaire was not deliberately designed that way it had that effect.Actually that is incorrect. The response was more positive than negative.

Maybe you had someone in the council who has skills in questionaire design or maybe not. If not maybe the council should outsource work that it is not competent to undertake.The questionaire asked the questions the Council was interested in.
Given that there is a lot of information available from other sources we specifically wanted to know if members would still support a newsletter.
After all if you just asked a general question like 'Do you support the NSWCA producing a newsletter for members" virtually everyone (even possibly Amiel ;))would say yes.

If the council wants help it never asks for expert help from its members. It would be no great problem to stick a list of small to medium jobs in with the tournie notices begging for help. Its not as if it doesn't need someone to find a venue for the Purdy or write and collate questionaires or suck more juniors into the opens etc. I guess there will be some requests for help in the next newsletter then :cool:As I said in another thread the NSWCA couldnt run the NSW Masters/Purdy event when and where it wanted and meet its aims and therefore cancelled it. However there were problems with the event last year also. Ralph's primary aim had always been to run the round robin FIDE rated NSW Masters event, with all other issues including running a supporting event secondary. As such perhaps that needs to be the sole focus for next year. Perhaps we could run the NSW Masters on weeknights one game per week over 7 rounds based at the participants home clubs or maybe just at different clubs.

With regards sucking more juniors in Open, some people would suggest we already have enough juniors playing in the Opens. ;)
Seriously though its my understanding from the NSWJCL that many of their juniors who play in their school holiday one-day/two day events would be unsuitable for NSWCA events.

Duff McKagan
04-05-2005, 01:41 PM
Actually that is incorrect. The response was more positive than negative. I read the questionaire and saw its bias. I had just read the rest of this thread and I am in good company. If the bias was not in the text the response would not have been *more* +ve than -ve it would like be *overwhelmingly more* +ve. Others have already made their points and I have finished making mine. We are both entitled to our opinions. :hand:


Also, could you please comment on what requests for help will be included in the newsletter.:cool:

Cheers

Brian_Jones
04-05-2005, 01:45 PM
Perhaps we could run the NSW Masters on weeknights one game per week over 7 rounds based at the participants home clubs or maybe just at different clubs. .

Going in the wrong direction Bill. I for one would love to play in the NSW Masters or Purdy memorial or whatever you call it. But not at one game per week and not in the Sydney CBD. To my mind a prestigious event has to be held at nice venue and using FIDE time limit over an extended long weekend.

Why does Sydney not host a Zonal style event of 9 rounds? Maybe find some sponsorship and then ask Jason or myself to organise?

Bill Gletsos
04-05-2005, 03:35 PM
I read the questionaire and saw its bias. I had just read the rest of this thread and I am in good company. If the bias was not in the text the response would not have been *more* +ve than -ve it would like be *overwhelmingly more* +ve.An unsupported assumption only.

Others have already made their points and I have finished making mine. We are both entitled to our opinions. :hand:That you are, just like others are entilted to have differing opinions to yours.

Also, could you please comment on what requests for help will be included in the newsletter.:cool:at this stage none that I am aware of.

Bill Gletsos
04-05-2005, 03:47 PM
Going in the wrong direction Bill. I for one would love to play in the NSW Masters or Purdy memorial or whatever you call it. But not at one game per week and not in the Sydney CBD.That may be true but that wasnt the aim of the NSW Masters when Ralph proposed it. According to feedback Ralph had received whilst investigating the event the prospective players wanted it in the Sydney CBD. Based on this Ralph suuggested it be run over 7 rounds over multiple weeks at the Bridge Centre. We tried to stick to that again this year but as said elsewhere we had problems with the venue.

To my mind a prestigious event has to be held at nice venue and using FIDE time limit over an extended long weekend.The existing long weekends are already taken care of.

Why does Sydney not host a Zonal style event of 9 rounds? Maybe find some sponsorship and then ask Jason or myself to organise?If someone wanted to make a proposal to the NSWCA to run/organise such an event them I'm sure we would look at it.

auriga
05-05-2005, 10:32 AM
I won't be doing the June issue (Trent Parker has agreed to do that), although there is a possibility that I will do (or partly do) the one after that (pending a satisfactory response from NSWCA Council to a recent email I sent them which was similar in content to post 67 in this thread).

no worries. this fills us in on the newsletter future.

...but don't get worked up about the questionnaire!
it wasn't that important IMO (and even less so now the response was +ve)
in relation to the issue of doing the newsletter itself.

i think issuing questionnaire to scientifically prove every decision made by the nswca is a very slow and inflexible system of leadership.
i would prefer the council to use their experience as players/organisers
even make some gut-feel decisions on different events/formats, etc.

Bill Gletsos
05-05-2005, 11:41 AM
i think issuing questionnaire to scientifically prove every decision made by the nswca is a very slow and inflexible system of leadership.Agreed. However the motion passed at the AGM regarding the newsletter specifically mentioned that members would be sent a questionairne for their opinion on its continuation.

i would prefer the council to use their experience as players/organisers
even make some gut-feel decisions on different events/formats, etc.The Council will be looking at making changes to next years tournament schedule/events. For starters the NSW Teams challenge will be run twice, probably April and July and there will be a new Over 40's event.

We got a good turnout at the Australia Day weekender and have followed that format (entry fees, prize money, number of rounds, time controls) for the upcoming May weekender. We are hoping for a similar turnout. It is currently planned to run the July weekender along the same lines.

The NSW Open remains an area of focus. Provided numbers are good for this years event (we hope for between 100-120) then prize money will increase for it again next year. The critical decision will be deciding when to go from Open/U1600 divisions to Open/U2000/U1600 divisions.

antichrist
03-06-2005, 05:19 PM
Yes, Bill has done (and still does do) an EXCELLENT job with the ratings!!!

While me and Bill have our disagreements from time to time, I consider that Australian chess is fortunate to have someone like Bill who devotes many VOLUNTARY hours of work to the Australian chess rating system!

Well done, Bill! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Shame he does not think the same about your newsletter!

Paul S
05-06-2005, 01:47 AM
Shame he does not think the same about your newsletter!

The newsletter is one of the things that me and Bill have had disagreements on, as can be seen in the thread on the newsletter.

As far as I am concerned I have said all I needed to say in the Newsletter thread. Myself and the NSWCA Council have moved on from the unfortunate way my NSWCA Newsletter involvement ended. Indeed in recent weeks I have met up with (or had email/PM communication with) most NSWCA Council members and the relationships have been friendly and cordial.

Peter, this is a thread about "ACF June 2005 Ratings" and not the NSWCA Newsletter. If you have something useful to say about the NSWCA Newsletter, why don't you post it in the relevant thread? Or are you just trolling and trying to antagonise people as per usual?

Bill Gletsos
05-06-2005, 01:49 AM
Or are you just trolling and trying to antagonise people as per usual?I think you got it in one. ;)

antichrist
05-06-2005, 01:08 PM
Bill, you are not pure, you have been misrepresenting the NSWCA constitution for years, along with your mate.

Bill Gletsos
05-06-2005, 02:31 PM
Bill, you are not pure, you have been misrepresenting the NSWCA constitution for years, along with your mate.The only person misrepresenting things for years is you A/C.

PHAT
10-08-2005, 02:28 PM
What's also interesting is that the newsletter came with a survey consisting of 3 questions. The first question reads:

"Given that Australian Chess information is readily available on the ACF, NSWCA and other websites, the weekly ACF email bulletins as well as weekly newspaper columns are you in favour of the NSWCA producing a quarterly newsletter?"

What's wrong with that question?

AR

This question needs to be asked again. Obviously the President doesn't want a newsletter, so just keep asking the question until the right answer is given. Surely it is time for the NSWCA to axe something that isn't making money that they will never spend.