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Feldgrau
06-01-2004, 11:42 AM
I notice that there are only 5 schools competing in the Primary division (open).

Anyone know what format will be run? 4 games over two days is too little and 8 games (double round robin) possibly too many, though this seems better than just the 4 rounds.

jenni
06-01-2004, 12:25 PM
I notice that there are only 5 schools competing in the Primary division (open).

Anyone know what format will be run? 4 games over two days is too little and 8 games (double round robin) possibly too many, though this seems better than just the 4 rounds.
Don't know - WA are playing it all pretty close to the chest!

In previous years the host state has put in 2 teams when there is an odd number, in order to avoid players having a bye. Whether WA are planning to do this, is unknown. Presumably a phonecall to Norbert would elicit this information.

It would nice if they let competing states know a bit more - I have tried and failed to get names of players in the teams published on the net as normal. I have spent days burrowing on the net and have used all my contacts and think I now know pretty much team compositions, but I feel in this advanced technologically age, it should be in the public domain - i.e on the competition website.

Feldgrau
06-01-2004, 01:03 PM
Yes that does seem puzzling that they wouldn't publish team lists. Especially if there was a conscious decision not to for some reason.

I just hope they keep parents and coaches well away from the games, a line around the boards/playing areas would be sufficient. There's nothing more annoying than the parent or coach who hangs around the board like a vulture putting pressure on the kids.

Not too fussed about the team lists other than it would be nice to know who is playing. The idea that specific individual preparation can be done based on team lists is very much overrated, most especially for the primary kids.

jenni
06-01-2004, 03:57 PM
Not too fussed about the team lists other than it would be nice to know who is playing. The idea that specific individual preparation can be done based on team lists is very much overrated, most especially for the primary kids.

Yes but not for the high schools - current board 1s (guessing a bit)

Kuan-Kuan Tian - 2038
Dusan Stojic - 1863
Gareth Oliver - 1844
Ben Lazarus - 1646
Anand Thiyagarajah - 1613
Dennis Holland - 1531

These are all serious players and I would think would want to be able to know who they are playing against. Prep is part of elite chess tournaments and when you have players at this level they should be able, and in fact encouraged, to do so. At the primary level I agree it all becomes a lot more debatable.

While there is an arguement for getting rid of all coaches and preparation at both the schools comp and Aus juniors and just letting the kids play off their own ability, it is not the way it works overseas and if we want to raise the standard of chess in Australia, we have to take all opportunities.

Feldgrau
07-01-2004, 01:47 AM
I remember reading this admirably loopy suggestion a few bulletin boards ago.

Coaches are very important for any standard of competitor, and I'm all for elite competition and excellence in young chess players. My point really was specific preparation for one game, of the like done the morning of a round is almost as likely to do harm as good to a primary player (the stronger the player the less this will apply of course). The real long term chess strength comes from proper training/homework done over months and years prior to the tourney, so GOOD coaches are critical. And reviewing a game as soon as it has been completed is another important task a coach can fulfill.

Circa 1997, one young player at an Aus junior preparing for the days round: After hours of painstaking work on this opening variation, getting the junior to play and replay the moves the coach was satisfied that the student would remember the moves (at least for the short term which is often just the case with crammed learning). Now his opponent obligingly walked straight into the preparation; lost a piece and the game. A rare direct hit for the coach and the player! The only concern was would his opponent repeat the same mistake later in the day when the tournament game was played? You see the junior had offered to play his opponent a few friendly lightning games (we were staying in the same hotel) whilst waiting for transport to the venue.... Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

Primary kids are just likely to do anything :) The will to win can be worth more than a queen I have observed.

jenni
07-01-2004, 05:55 AM
I agree - it is what makes Junior chess so much fun - coaches and parents really never know what is going to happen!

jenni
07-01-2004, 09:30 AM
I remember reading this admirably loopy suggestion a few bulletin boards ago.

Coaches are very important for any standard of competitor, and I'm all for elite competition and excellence in young chess players. My point really was specific preparation for one game, of the like done the morning of a round is almost as likely to do harm as good to a primary player (the stronger the player the less this will apply of course). The real long term chess strength comes from proper training/homework done over months and years prior to the tourney, so GOOD coaches are critical. And reviewing a game as soon as it has been completed is another important task a coach can fulfill.



I suppose I feel that kids need to get used to being prepard, so in the short term it may not work too well, but they need to get used to the technique. Someone like Raymond Song is already a Pro - he's been doing it for so long. It helps that he appears to have a photographic memory, so that prep is not wasted on him, but he can remember it and play it months later. I think the prep can also allow kids to learn something new, that they might really like and then they go away from the comp and work on it. Obviously work done prior to a comp is the most valuable.

I have a story about Shannon and prep - when she was quite young, she was getting prep for the first time before an aus juniors. She was very hastily given an opening to play and told to get all her pieces to certain positions. After the game, having lost horribly, the coach asked her why she had put her pieces in the terrible positions she had. She said "because you told me to". Somehow, the bit about "you only play these moves, if they play those moves" had been lost on her!

So yes I agree with primary aged kids, prep can be very 2 edged and probably is only beneficial to the really good players. However my point above, was mainly for the high school teams, where we do have strong players (even in the girls).

george
08-01-2004, 07:41 AM
Hi All,

The Australian Schools Team Championships will be decided as has been the case in previous ASTC's

A motion to decide the winners based on match points rather than game points was defeated at the ACF Conference.

Regards
George Howard
President ACF

rob
09-01-2004, 03:31 PM
Hi Jennie,

Further to your earlier post, I'd just like to point out that Dennis Holland (Midland Chess Club!) does not attend and so will not be playing for Applecross SHS.

I have been told by a very reliable source that one of the Applecross stronger players Andrew Buckley is away and so unable to play for them.

Bill Gletsos
09-01-2004, 03:45 PM
I would hazard a guess that holding the ASTC in January rather than December as has been the practice means that many kids are unavailable for their teams because they are away on holidays.

jenni
09-01-2004, 06:53 PM
Hi Jennie,

Further to your earlier post, I'd just like to point out that Dennis Holland (Midland Chess Club!) does not attend and so will not be playing for Applecross SHS.

I have been told by a very reliable source that one of the Applecross stronger players Andrew Buckley is away and so unable to play for them.

Thanks Rob - I did say it was a bit of a guess! WA does not put up a lot of info on their websites about kids playing in their schools comp. Qld I think is a shining example on information!

jenni
09-01-2004, 06:55 PM
I would hazard a guess that holding the ASTC in January rather than December as has been the practice means that many kids are unavailable for their teams because they are away on holidays.

Well I would haveto agree - it caused problems with a number of schools that I am aware with, with kids not being available. I think if it continues to be held in th Jan holidays it will kill the competition.

Also is NSWJCL going to be happy with the comp in Victoria - it was NSW's turn and I understood that the venue had already been booked for December!!

Bill Gletsos
09-01-2004, 06:59 PM
Since Charles Z was one of the NSW Delegates as was Kerry I assume they must have been.

Is it being held in december in Vic at Mt. Bulla?

arosar
16-01-2004, 03:55 PM
S'cuse me a bit you blokes - but wasn't there a thread where we talked about math points and board points? I think it had something to do with junior chess or something - I can't remember.

I'm just prompted by the latest issue of NIC where these scoring systems were mentioned. Apparently MP system isn't very fair. Can some1 please tell me how MP works?

Thanks!

AR

Bill Gletsos
16-01-2004, 04:34 PM
AR,

Take a Sydney grade match for example.

Team A beats team B 4-0 while Team C beats team D 3.5-1.5

Under match points team A get 2 and team C gets 2 and B and D get 0.

Like in foorball where one side can beat another 40-0 and another side win 12-11. They both only get 3 premiership points. The actual scores don't matter.