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arosar
01-04-2005, 03:07 PM
Have this mob gone bonkers?

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2297

They seem to have gone a wee bit too far. What say youse wise chesschatters?

AR

Rincewind
01-04-2005, 03:33 PM
I notice they have secured the services of Buster as the strong GM advisor. He may also be providing crowd control.

pax
01-04-2005, 03:51 PM
I'd say look at the date.

pballard
01-04-2005, 04:07 PM
Have this mob gone bonkers?

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2297

They seem to have gone a wee bit too far. What say youse wise chesschatters?

AR

It's not an April Fool's joke. I've seen it discussed earlier.

I think it's a great idea, although I don't like the details. Specifically, I don't like the idea of an arbiter determining if it's a draw or not. Also nothing about stalemate or the 50 move rule being draws. It looks like the rules were thrown together in a hurry.

Better to have no draw offers before a certain move (say 60). I believe GM Maurice Ashley organised a tournament like this a while ago, and the results were encouraging.

--
Peter

pax
02-04-2005, 03:08 PM
It seems it isn't a joke (TWIC mentioned it before today). Interesting idea. It will be great to see if it works.

ElevatorEscapee
02-04-2005, 05:58 PM
The participants have to play on until the arbiter says they can stop.

The following mental picture is brought to my mind: Two grandmasters are on their knees begging the arbiter to let them agree to a draw: "please let us call it a draw and go to bed... we have been playing this bishops of opposite colours ending for the past 5 hours!" "No!", demands the arbiter, "you must keep playing!" :eek:

Of course grandmasters could in effect "agree to draw" by deliberately repeating moves and claiming a draw by threefold repitition. One wonders if the threefold repetition rule would need to be modified to prevent such abuse.

Otherwise, if this takes off, tournament bulletins of the future could be filled with games such as: 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.Ng1 Ng8 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Ng1 whereby black could claim a draw by signalling his intention of playing 4... Ng8 thereby satisfying the requirements of the draw by threefold repetition rule. ;)

PS as a footnonte, I find it ironic that the tournament is sponsored by a mobile phone company. :lol:

pballard
02-04-2005, 09:33 PM
Of course grandmasters could in effect "agree to draw" by deliberately repeating moves and claiming a draw by threefold repitition. One wonders if the threefold repetition rule would need to be modified to prevent such abuse.


Maurice Ashley addresses this in his essay "The End of the Draw Offer?", which can be found at http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/ashley03.html
He writes:

"They could always create a game that ends in perpetual check or three move repetition. This is true, but I think the vast majority of players are more honorable than that. Almost all early draws are not due to prior agreement, but more out of convenience or fear of losing. If players were not allowed to have quick draws, they would simply erase this option from their minds and just play chess. "

I suspect he is right. Time will tell.

JGB
02-04-2005, 09:43 PM
I can just imagine players before the game agreeing to a draw anyway... "Ok same precedure as the Pirc last year... this time the Lopez draw"

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.c3 d6 9.h3 Re8 10.Ng5 Rf8 11.Nf3 Re8 12.Ng5 Rf8 13.Nf3 ... drawn by rep

Alan Shore
02-04-2005, 10:04 PM
How about playing that 12 (?) move stalemate? :)

Javier Gil
15-04-2005, 01:48 PM
1.c4 h5 2.h4 a5 3.Qa4 Ra6 4.Qxa5 Rah6 5.Qxc7 f6 6.Qxd7+ Kf7 7.Qxb7 Qd3 8.Qxb8 Qh7 9.Qxc8 Kg6 10.Qe6

This amazing game is a stalemate in 10 moves! It was posted on the rec.games.chess.misc newsgroup by David Barr, who asked: “Does anyone know the story behind this game? A stalemate in 10 moves. From the bizarre moves made by both players at the Swedish Junior Championship 1995, it looks like they had all of the moves planned beforehand.”

Now, these guys really worked hard for the draw!! :)

arosar
15-04-2005, 02:20 PM
Hey, senior Gil. Since you are reading here I will ask you here. Are you playing for a team in the NSW Teams Challenge?

We can discuss in the Spanish Club on Liverpool St. Jug of sangria is on me.

AR

Ian Rout
15-04-2005, 03:20 PM
This amazing game is a stalemate in 10 moves! It was posted on the rec.games.chess.misc newsgroup by David Barr, who asked: “Does anyone know the story behind this game? A stalemate in 10 moves. From the bizarre moves made by both players at the Swedish Junior Championship 1995, it looks like they had all of the moves planned beforehand.”

Now, these guys really worked hard for the draw!! :)
There is some other information on composed short stalemates at item 3679 of Edward Winter's Chess Notes:

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/#3679._Shortest_stalemate_games

auriga
15-04-2005, 04:30 PM
Hey, senior Gil. Since you are reading here I will ask you here. Are you playing for a team in the NSW Teams Challenge?

We can discuss in the Spanish Club on Liverpool St. Jug of sangria is on me.

AR

ar, will you be shouting drinks for the runners up if your team takes out the title?! it's only fair. :eh:

what is the proposed name for this super-team?

arosar
15-04-2005, 04:41 PM
ar, will you be shouting drinks for the runners up if your team takes out the title?! it's only fair. :eh:

what is the proposed name for this super-team?

Well, we can always consider this I suppose. Do you have a team or you play for Koala?

AR

auriga
15-04-2005, 05:01 PM
Well, we can always consider this I suppose. Do you have a team or you play for Koala?

AR

think brian will muster up a koala team...will be
a good runout for some emerging talent.
could be rooty hill team as well - not too sure. :confused:

Javier Gil
17-04-2005, 11:17 PM
Hey, senior Gil. Since you are reading here I will ask you here. Are you playing for a team in the NSW Teams Challenge?
We can discuss in the Spanish Club on Liverpool St. Jug of sangria is on me.
AR

Hello Senior Arosar :)

Thanks a lot for your message.
At present, I have certain ties which link me to another club in Sydney, and thus it would be difficult for me to play for another team. I'll probably be busy that day anyway.
Your kind offer deserves at least a sangria, so I'll do the shutting if we get to meet.

Regards, Javier.

FM_Bill
28-05-2005, 09:43 AM
i like chess without draw offers

use stalemate, 50 move rule, repetition and insufficient material
no adjudications

drawish positions start repeating quite quickly

to make draws easier i suggest triple repetition be changed
to double repetition

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~chess/double.html

Duff McKagan
28-05-2005, 10:09 AM
to make draws easier i suggest triple repetition be changed to double repetition


Cannot agree to two. It would remove the opportunity to physcologically challenge your opponent to risk playing on for the full point.

FM_Bill
05-10-2005, 11:47 PM
No draw offer games might be really good for (some) junior tournaments. It would help their endgames no end.