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pax
02-04-2005, 04:20 PM
Now that it seems GM Schmalz will be living in Australia for a couple of years, I wonder whether anyone has looked into the possibility of running a GM norm event?

It ought to be possible to put together a 10 player field of 2440 average or thereabouts, with GM norms for 6.5/9 and IM norms for 5/9. Money as always is the limiting factor, as the GMs would need to be paid.

Anyone know when the last GM norm event was held in Australia (has there ever been one)? (and I don't mean the monster swisses where norm fields are only ever a theoretical possibility)

I guess it is also debatable whether it is worth running a GM norm event when nobody is near the 2500 rating level.

antichrist
02-04-2005, 04:34 PM
Well whatever you do don't let GM Schmalz de-register his overseas associations as previously stated we need them from 3 different federations.

Then import a few more over with a GM title and away we go.

Thunderspirit
02-04-2005, 07:56 PM
The last GM norm event to be run in Australia was the Saintly Cup (which I think was in 2001) though that maybe off. It was run in Sydney by IA Jason Lyons. It was a great event, but the amount needed to run the event was massive, so sadly they are few and far between...

pax
02-04-2005, 08:31 PM
Well whatever you do don't let GM Schmalz de-register his overseas associations as previously stated we need them from 3 different federations.

Then import a few more over with a GM title and away we go.

You don't need GMs from 3 different feds. You need 3 GMs (e.g Rogers, Schmalz, Johansen) and players from 3 federations (e.g Schmalz, Bjelobrk and a bunch of Aussies).

jase
03-04-2005, 02:23 AM
Having a foreign GM living in Australia for the next couple of years will have many benefits, assuming he wishes to play chess while he's here.

Regarding GM norm tournaments:


You need 3 GMs (e.g Rogers, Schmalz, Johansen) and players from 3 federations (e.g Schmalz, Bjelobrk and a bunch of Aussies).
This is insufficient. A tournament requires at least 4 foreign players to satisfy the requirements for a title tournament.


Anyone know when the last GM norm event was held in Australia (has there ever been one)?
Ian and Cathy Rogers ran three excellent title tournaments in Sydney in the late 1980s/early 1990s. The last GM tournament in Australia was in 1999, which was my QVB Chess Festival mentioned by Liberaci. There were 5 foreign players [2 GMs, 3 IMs] plus 5 locals: Rogers, Johansen, Wohl, Solomon, West.

I've had another venture in the pipeline for some time now but it requires a lot of time and energy on my part to make it happen. I haven't been willing or able to make that investment, so the concepts lie dormant in my head, and in document form in my laptop. But that could change ...


I guess it is also debatable whether it is worth running a GM norm event when nobody is near the 2500 rating level.
Yep yep. It's a problem. But I do think we do have players with the ability to perform at 2600 against a field of IMs and GMs. Immediately coming to mind are Smerdon, Zhao, and Wallace. Now the first two are probably concentrating on university studies, while the 3rd is on a siesta from competitive chess. I don't think it's beyond Wohl or Lane either, but with such limited opportunities it's going to be tough to acquire a 3rd homegrown GM in the near future.

pax
03-04-2005, 08:24 AM
This is insufficient. A tournament requires at least 4 foreign players to satisfy the requirements for a title tournament.

Are you sure about that? All I could find in the FIDE handbook regarding federations was:

1.43 Federations of opponents.
At least two federations other than that of the title applicant must be included, except for 1.43a-1.43e.

shaun
03-04-2005, 08:30 AM
Are you sure about that? All I could find in the FIDE handbook regarding federations was:

1.43 Federations of opponents.
At least two federations other than that of the title applicant must be included, except for 1.43a-1.43e.

FIDE Title Regulations 8.5 require at least 1/3 of players shall not come from the same Federation of the candidate, and at least 4 opponents must be from federations other than his own. (exceptions are 8.8 and 8.9)

antichrist
03-04-2005, 08:37 AM
As no one showed interest in my previous posting shown below do you have any other alternatives, or do we just ignore the problem.

__________________________________________
Now is the first time I understand the system. If OZ players are serious we should sponser sufficient o/s players for e.g., GM's, sorry to say but from poor 3rd world countries so they may appreciate, and keep them them here for about 6 months so everyone who is interested can get sufficent games against them to earn their FIDE rating, or for at least so the top players to achieve their norms.

We need one generous sponcer or a large campaign OZ wide, who is interested?

This project would even entice me to seriously study chess for a year in preparation. Nothing else would!

pax
03-04-2005, 08:38 AM
FIDE Title Regulations 8.5 require at least 1/3 of players shall not come from the same Federation of the candidate, and at least 4 opponents must be from federations other than his own. (exceptions are 8.8 and 8.9)

Is that in the handbook on the FIDE website (the numbering seems to be different)?

I wish they would get their act together and publish a handbook that is not self-contradictory (there are several instances of contradiction on the website).

JGB
03-04-2005, 10:54 AM
1/3 from a different nation as the candidate? :eek: Holding our next GM Tournament seems tough now, let alone producing a GM.

antichrist
03-04-2005, 11:36 AM
looks like we ignore the problem

Ian Rout
03-04-2005, 12:03 PM
1/3 from a different nation as the candidate? :eek: Holding our next GM Tournament seems tough now, let alone producing a GM.
I would have thought getting a percentage of foreign players could be achieved by running a joint venture with NZ, who could send an IM or two.

Getting the number of countries would be harder. It would require taking advantage of a window where an overseas player was in Australia, or had just migrated and not yet changed nationality.

antichrist
03-04-2005, 12:23 PM
I would have thought getting a percentage of foreign players could be achieved by running a joint venture with NZ, who could send an IM or two.

Getting the number of countries would be harder. It would require taking advantage of a window where an overseas player was in Australia, or had just migrated and not yet changed nationality.

You are gradually coming around to my position. Philippines has lots of chess players as you can see from Sydney comps. Invite them over, we can billet them in Sydney. I would be prepared to donate heavily for this project though I would not directly benefit from it. Maybe many other people are also prepared to donate for something special like this.

pax
03-04-2005, 12:37 PM
I would have thought getting a percentage of foreign players could be achieved by running a joint venture with NZ, who could send an IM or two.

Getting the number of countries would be harder. It would require taking advantage of a window where an overseas player was in Australia, or had just migrated and not yet changed nationality.

The trouble with New Zealand is that any more than one or two players would pull the average rating down to the point that GM norms become very difficult.

Ian Rout
03-04-2005, 01:21 PM
The trouble with New Zealand is that any more than one or two players would pull the average rating down to the point that GM norms become very difficult.
Yes, it's a bit of a balancing act getting the point where the average goes down sufficiently that the norm clicks over to require an extra half-point.

The other side of the coin is that if a player is lower rated then in principle they are easier to win or draw against (which is why the norm requirement is higher) so the prospect of getting the norm doesn't necessarily lessen.

pax
03-04-2005, 02:58 PM
There is also the 'rating floor' rule, where a certain number of players (rated or not) can be considered to be 2250 for the purposes of the norm calculation. If you are interested in maximising your chances of generating norms, there's nothing stopping you from throwing a couple of total bunnies into the mix.

Of course it would otherwise detract from the tournament, and is pretty unethical in my opinion.

Bill Gletsos
03-04-2005, 08:20 PM
There is also the 'rating floor' rule, where a certain number of players (rated or not) can be considered to be 2250 for the purposes of the norm calculation. If you are interested in maximising your chances of generating norms, there's nothing stopping you from throwing a couple of total bunnies into the mix.

Of course it would otherwise detract from the tournament, and is pretty unethical in my opinion.The applicable floor varies depending on the norm.

The relevant FIDE Article is:
1.46 Rating of opponents.
For an example of percentage rounding see 1.44.
1.46a Maximum 22% of the opponents shall be unrated.
1.46b The Rating List in effect at the start of the tournament shall be used.
1.46c For the purposes of norms, the minimum rating (rating floor) for the opponents shall be as follows:
Grandmaster title - 2250
International Master title - 2100
Woman Grandmaster title - 2050
Woman International Master title - 1900

1.46c1 No more than two opponents shall have their rating raised to this rating floor. Where more than two opponents are below the floor, the rating of the lowest two opponents shall be raised.
1.46d Unrated opponents not covered by 1.46b shall be considered to be rated at the rating floor level.

pax
03-04-2005, 10:09 PM
Yep, that's the one.

Unfortunately, it's a rule that can be rather shockingly abused, say by including Matthew Sweeney and Jose Escribano in your ten player GM norm event :D

shaun
03-04-2005, 10:38 PM
Yep, that's the one.

Unfortunately, it's a rule that can be rather shockingly abused, say by including Matthew Sweeney and Jose Escribano in your ten player GM norm event :D

It is a rule that was probably designed for Swiss events (eg a weak first round oppponent could really blow your norm) but doesn't really suit RR events.
Of course FIDE had a rule that Unrated players who scored 0 were considered not have played in the event at all, and if that rule is in effect you better hope that Escribano v Sweeney is a peaceful draw. (Although it must be noted that Jose scored an 8 game FIDE rating block at Mt Buller and a 6 game block at the Doeberl, so he will be on the next FIDE rating list)

Oepty
05-04-2005, 02:22 PM
Jose Escribano is on the April FIDE list with a rating of 2057.

But back onto the main subject. With Schmaltz living here it does seem a great oppurtunity to have GM norm events in Australia. We also have Froehlich and Bjelobrk who make up 3 of the 4 foriegn players, assuming they could be persuaded to play. There are others who ratings might just be high enough to be the 4th player if we want a 6.5/9 point norm. This depend on how many the highest rated Australian players chose to play.
So the question is, How much would running a GM tournament in Australia cost providing we did not have to get anybody from overseas?

Scott

Rincewind
05-04-2005, 04:46 PM
Jose Escribano is on the April FIDE list with a rating of 2057.

Does this mean ACF will be adding 300 point to everyone's ratings to maintain parity with FIDE? :rolleyes:

Bill Gletsos
05-04-2005, 08:16 PM
Does this mean ACF will be adding 300 point to everyone's ratings to maintain parity with FIDE? :rolleyes:No. ;)

Denis_Jessop
05-04-2005, 09:00 PM
Now that it seems GM Schmalz will be living in Australia for a couple of years, I wonder whether anyone has looked into the possibility of running a GM norm event?

It ought to be possible to put together a 10 player field of 2440 average or thereabouts, with GM norms for 6.5/9 and IM norms for 5/9. Money as always is the limiting factor, as the GMs would need to be paid.

Anyone know when the last GM norm event was held in Australia (has there ever been one)? (and I don't mean the monster swisses where norm fields are only ever a theoretical possibility)

I guess it is also debatable whether it is worth running a GM norm event when nobody is near the 2500 rating level.

To go right back to the beginning, has anyone noticed the announcement in the 30 March ACF Newsletter that GMs Ftacnik, Chandler and probably Schmalz will be playing in the Aus Champ 2005/2006 in Brisbane and that the attaining of GM norms in that event is an aim?

DJ

Garvinator
05-04-2005, 09:36 PM
To go right back to the beginning, has anyone noticed the announcement in the 30 March ACF Newsletter that GMs Ftacnik, Chandler and probably Schmalz will be playing in the Aus Champ 2005/2006 in Brisbane and that the attaining of GM norms in that event is an aim?

DJ
yeah i did ;)

pax
05-04-2005, 10:28 PM
To go right back to the beginning, has anyone noticed the announcement in the 30 March ACF Newsletter that GMs Ftacnik, Chandler and probably Schmalz will be playing in the Aus Champ 2005/2006 in Brisbane and that the attaining of GM norms in that event is an aim?

DJ

I hadn't actually, that's great news ;)

Lets hope a couple of players manage to face a GM norm field at least!

HappyFriend
11-04-2005, 08:20 PM
Whatever anyone does DO NOT TAKE your GM friends to the Melbourne Chess Club. Look at what happened to GM Dejan Antic when he visited no-body talked to him, and when he asked one of the local patzers for a game the patzer refused to play the GM saying that he didn't play "beginners". Wanna know who this person was? I told Steph Taylor about it, he can tell you. If he doesn't I will.
I think the MCC has been keeping quite a lot from the chess world here. I wonder why.....hmmm.

Thunderspirit
11-04-2005, 09:45 PM
Jose's copped a bit crap over this. He played like great at Mt Buller with an 8 game 2100 block, plus with Doeberl he got his 2057 rating. Well done Jose!

Rincewind
11-04-2005, 11:09 PM
Jose's copped a bit crap over this. He played like great at Mt Buller with an 8 game 2100 block, plus with Doeberl he got his 2057 rating. Well done Jose!

Yess, well done. :clap: I just hope this doesn't discourage Jose from playing in FIDE rated events in the future.

Paul S
12-04-2005, 12:47 AM
Jose's copped a bit crap over this. He played like great at Mt Buller with an 8 game 2100 block, plus with Doeberl he got his 2057 rating. Well done Jose!

Thankyou for that, Lee. :clap:

I now don't feel so bad about losing to Jose in the St George Summer Open a few months ago. :lol:

BTW, its 1-1 with me and Jose.