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paulb
04-01-2004, 11:41 PM
I understand there was the customary hoohah on the board today.

please note that the section marked "australian chess" is moderated by Kevin Bonham and myself, and the usual rules apply. If you wish to post elsewhere, the stricter rules of the other moderators apply. So don't post there unless you're prepared to follow the rules. Simple.

I've moved the relevant boards into the one section.

Jeo will consult with me if there is any action contemplated against an ACF person.

In the meantime, please calm down a bit. It's all a bit childish and the hissy-fits are interfering with my Christmas suntan regime.

Cheers - PaulB

chesslover
04-01-2004, 11:50 PM
I understand there was the customary hoohah on the board today.

please note that the section marked "australian chess" is moderated by Kevin Bonham and myself, and the usual rules apply. If you wish to post elsewhere, the stricter rules of the other moderators apply. So don't post there unless you're prepared to follow the rules. Simple.

I've moved the relevant boards into the one section.

Jeo will consult with me if there is any action contemplated against an ACF person.

In the meantime, please calm down a bit. It's all a bit childish and the hissy-fits are interfering with my Christmas suntan regime.

Cheers - PaulB

1.I agree and accept this all. In fact throughout the threads, I have stated that the compromise brokered by Kevin and Jeo is very sensible, and having you and Kevin modertate teh 4 ACF forums, and be consulted on the suspension/explusion is the way to go

2. Are the other Chesskit Admins like Gandalf also going to follow the enlightened and sensible arrangement that Jeo has reached with us?

From my undertanding this was all going fine after the initial teething troubles, until Gandalf suspended matt. in direct vilation of what I thought was the agreed arangements

peanbrain
04-01-2004, 11:57 PM
Why are we always asked to calm down (and even hints to apologise) when all we did was reacting to some very nasty and questionable actions from the other party?

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 11:58 PM
Gandalf's powers are at rest for now, as are mine. The other two have just as much influence as admins, if not greater, though they do not have real admin features. I was about to give up, as you could detect from my posts, when one of them told me to give it another chance.

chesslover
05-01-2004, 12:09 AM
Why are we always asked to calm down (and even hints to apologise) when all we did was reacting to some very nasty and questionable actions from the other party?

to err is human...to forgive divine

every day is a new day with new beginnings

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 12:19 AM
I understand there was the customary hoohah on the board today.

please note that the section marked "australian chess" is moderated by Kevin Bonham and myself, and the usual rules apply. If you wish to post elsewhere, the stricter rules of the other moderators apply. So don't post there unless you're prepared to follow the rules. Simple.

I've moved the relevant boards into the one section.

Jeo will consult with me if there is any action contemplated against an ACF person.

In the meantime, please calm down a bit. It's all a bit childish and the hissy-fits are interfering with my Christmas suntan regime.

Cheers - PaulB

Understand this Paul.

YOU have a lot of unhappy BB users.

Suggesting we all calm down or suggesting they are hissy fits wont /dont help the situation.

paulb
05-01-2004, 12:40 AM
Many people have overreacted and will eventually realise this. The "problems" that people cite are better solved - in fact, easily solved - by polite discussion, rather than by chucking a mental and indulging in personal attacks, which seems to have been the norm over the past few days. New Year's Eve hangover perhaps?

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 01:01 AM
I see one of the problems as being your casual dismissal of all this.
People are complaining but you dont appear to be listening.

paulb
05-01-2004, 01:28 AM
I'm very interested to see if there are insoluble problems, as opposed to temporary hitches and glitches. SO far all I see are the latter.

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2004, 03:33 AM
I have long-term concerns about the private nature of this board, the mixed moderation standards in different parts of it, and the culture clashes between the different sources of posters on it. Potential negative impacts of these include sudden loss of posts, confusion and discouragement to new junior members from the Chess Kit side, banning of our members if they (eg drunkenly) say the wrong thing in the wrong section by mistake, among others.

It is too early to say these will be problems. It is also too early to say they will not be.

The portents have been less than brilliant so far, although absolute collapse has in each case been averted.

There have been overreactions on all sides (including the odd one from me here and there) and I'm hopeful it will all blow over. It may not, though. Happy to give this a go and see what happens, but I'm rather nervous about it.

I really think the optimum solution would be a BB with these features, but truly independent of this site or at least its other forums.

If that involved paying Jeo something for his efforts in setting it up I wouldn't be opposed to that.

After all, what's the good of having a best post BB prize to encourage good posting if the way the BB is going has the opposite effect?

I also think it should be recognised that while many people did engage in abuse over what is going on, some also expressed their points intelligently and thoughtfully. I don't mean me here - I'm talking about many others. It hasn't all been childish, there are plenty of legitimate concerns in there.

PHAT
05-01-2004, 08:20 AM
I am thinking of changing my handle here to "Nelson" as in Matthew Nelson Mandela Sweeney. It is entirely appropriate under the circumstances that everyone hold me in due reverence. This is the start of a beautiful new era where I say soothy sagey stuff and you all agree with a CL-esk fawning.

After yesterdays storm, I looked at the various attitudes of posters and saw that their reactions could not be characterised by just one parameter. Some of you may recall the "Political Compass". In the same way as thqat characterised peopl,e I propose that thier are two scale sat work here. They are the Go/Stay and the Kill-Them-All/SecondChance scales. For example.

Bill : Go/KTA
Gandalf: Stay/KTA
Jeo: Go/SC
Nelson a.k.a. Matthew: Stay/SC

Another facet of yesterday was the number of peolple calling others over-reactors and to chill. This is not the whole story. The so called over reactors are an important part of the mix because they counteract the numerically greater under-reactors!

Finally, a brilliant idea. Why can't Chesskit run two BBs on its site? - ACF and ChessKit. They could run cheek by jowl - the Adults Only and the Junior's. People could use posted URL links inside this new bicameral forum so that they remained linked but seperated by the neccessity of being a member of both BBs.

What say Karthic and Gandalf?
What say the ACF regulars?

ursogr8
05-01-2004, 08:46 AM
Finally, a brilliant idea. Why can't Chesskit run two BBs on its site? - ACF and ChessKit. They could run cheek by jowl - the Adults Only and the Junior's. People could use posted URL links inside this new bicameral forum so that they remained linked but seperated by the neccessity of being a member of both BBs.


What say the ACF regulars?

hi Matt and his new persona (which looks a lot like the old neanderthal, but looking to the right)

Two BBs defeats the purpose of CK asking the ACF to join; which apparently was to bring the intellegence of the experienced ACF posters to the juniors and uninitiated on the CK board.
CK need the wealth of experience developed by the ACF posters (even with their warts).

starter

Rincewind
05-01-2004, 08:49 AM
Free-ee-ee Matthew Sweeney
24 hours in captivity
he cannot post
while chess lover runs free

:D

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 09:54 AM
Finally, a brilliant idea. Why can't Chesskit run two BBs on its site? - ACF and ChessKit. They could run cheek by jowl - the Adults Only and the Junior's. People could use posted URL links inside this new bicameral forum so that they remained linked but seperated by the neccessity of being a member of both BBs.


What say the ACF regulars?

hi Matt and his new persona (which looks a lot like the old neanderthal, but looking to the right)

Two BBs defeats the purpose of CK asking the ACF to join; which apparently was to bring the intellegence of the experienced ACF posters to the juniors and uninitiated on the CK board.
CK need the wealth of experience developed by the ACF posters (even with their warts).

starter
starter,
It works both ways.
So chesskit wanted us to add experience.
Paul wanted new features.

Old old board was YAbb the new board is phpBB.
Perhaps as Kevin says there is another road.

1) Restore the old ACF BB.
2) Create a standard phpBB board run off the ACF site. If we need assistance in setting this us then the ACF could consider paying Jeo for his assistance.
3) So that we get the additional features like fen/pgn we pay Jeo for the use of those features that he has developed that we want.
4) His members that wanted to could join the new BB.

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 10:02 AM
I am thinking of changing my handle here to "Nelson" as in Matthew Nelson Mandela Sweeney. It is entirely appropriate under the circumstances that everyone hold me in due reverence. This is the start of a beautiful new era where I say soothy sagey stuff and you all agree with a CL-esk fawning.

After yesterdays storm, I looked at the various attitudes of posters and saw that their reactions could not be characterised by just one parameter. Some of you may recall the "Political Compass". In the same way as thqat characterised peopl,e I propose that thier are two scale sat work here. They are the Go/Stay and the Kill-Them-All/SecondChance scales. For example.

Bill : Go/KTA
Gandalf: Stay/KTA
Jeo: Go/SC
Nelson a.k.a. Matthew: Stay/SC

Another facet of yesterday was the number of peolple calling others over-reactors and to chill. This is not the whole story. The so called over reactors are an important part of the mix because they counteract the numerically greater under-reactors!

Finally, a brilliant idea. Why can't Chesskit run two BBs on its site? - ACF and ChessKit. They could run cheek by jowl - the Adults Only and the Junior's. People could use posted URL links inside this new bicameral forum so that they remained linked but seperated by the neccessity of being a member of both BBs.

What say Karthic and Gandalf?
What say the ACF regulars?

Dont kid yourself, Nelson.

Mandela was in prision for well over 20 years, you were gone for less than 24 hrs.

Also you have this tendency to try and pigeon hole people hence your new matrix.

Its not as simple as go/stay and KTA/SC.

There are some who are neither go/stay but are undecided because they are not sure the benfits outweigh the disadvantages.
Likewise there are others whose KTA/Sc is that they have major vconcerns that this same debacle wont re-occur.

Unfortunately Paul B does not seem to want to listen to those BB users who have asked that the old board be restored, but instead did his heels in.

Perhaps he is concerned that restoring the old board would been seen as a personal defeat on his part.

The fact is when you make a decision without consultation you always run such a risk.

PHAT
05-01-2004, 11:13 AM
Dont kid yourself, Nelson.

Also you have this tendency to try and pigeon hole people hence your new matrix.



See how easy it was to get people calling me Nelson

Who doesn't pigeon hole? The worlfd is a complex place. Simplifying by catagorisation is normal and useful. It fact is is so useful that the brains of all species do it. It is a universal attirubute of brains. An idea of mine is that one measure of intelect might be the size and number of dimentions of it's matrix

Rincewind
05-01-2004, 12:50 PM
Who doesn't pigeon hole? The worlfd is a complex place. Simplifying by catagorisation is normal and useful. It fact is is so useful that the brains of all species do it. It is a universal attirubute of brains. An idea of mine is that one measure of intelect might be the size and number of dimentions of it's matrix

This reminds me of the Neandertal thread. I think this is a not so universal attribute of some brains to make unsubstantiated sweeping generalisations. :D

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2004, 01:18 PM
Two BBs defeats the purpose of CK asking the ACF to join; which apparently was to bring the intellegence of the experienced ACF posters to the juniors and uninitiated on the CK board.

Two seperate BBs on the same site with strong links between them might not defeat that purpose. Matt's idea doesn't seem so bad to me - although you still have the private ownership problem, I think it would be less severe.

One of the reasons I thought having a lot of this debate on the old BB was a good idea is that you wouldn't have to worry about losing a BB to post on if the admins on this site decided they really couldn't put up with being criticised on their own site after all. With a smooth transition over time they probably wouldn't be being criticised at all. Even after the agreements over the first two censorship incidents had been made, last night was again a very close call. Hopefully it will be the last and it will all work fine now.

Also, in the interests of cliche avoidance, I reckon "chill" should be added to the banned words list. :P :P :P

chesslover
05-01-2004, 06:20 PM
After yesterdays storm, I looked at the various attitudes of posters and saw that their reactions could not be characterised by just one parameter. Some of you may recall the "Political Compass". In the same way as thqat characterised peopl,e I propose that thier are two scale sat work here. They are the Go/Stay and the Kill-Them-All/SecondChance scales. For example.

Bill : Go/KTA
Gandalf: Stay/KTA
Jeo: Go/SC
Nelson a.k.a. Matthew: Stay/SC



What about me? I thought I was in the Stay/ Second Chance political compass

PHAT
05-01-2004, 06:38 PM
[quote="Matthew Sweeney"]What about me? I thought I was in the Stay/ Second Chance political compass

Ummm errr weeeellllllll. That would put me in the same quadrant as you and I didn't want that to become known to the rest of the BB.

firegoat7
05-01-2004, 06:55 PM
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Laugh, I am absolutely cacking myself with the sudden turn of events. The irony of the situation is a scream. :D :D :D

Billy boy and Kevie baby start complaining because of POLICY.
Seems as if they cannot accept the shoe being on the other foot.

Ironically, has it actually clicked in your minds that the ALIENATION you are complaining about with the new BB is basically the same parameter that numerous posters like Matt and myself talk about regarding the ACF.

Is the lack of respect you are experiencing symptomatic of ALL ACF decisions including: GLICKO, Junior squads, Voting rights, Oz Championships etc etc.

P.S the secret administrator is also another obvious DISGRACE, but we do not here you bleating over that do we :?:

peanbrain
05-01-2004, 07:12 PM
P.S the secret administrator is also another obvious DISGRACE, but we do not here you bleating over that do we :?:

firegoat - good to see you've "chill' your bad temper and for once not calling someone a clown! Hope you not going soft just because of your old age ... \:D/

Anyway, I suspect poor Kevin ended up doing the thankless task because people like us sit on our butts and just criticise. Not to mention with your crazy posts who knows what sort of trouble you'll get the ACF into unless we have someone taking turns and sharing the burden.

PS - what weight division are you? I'll be happy to meet you for a boxing session the next time I visit MCC. :-''

chesslover
05-01-2004, 07:59 PM
P.S the secret administrator is also another obvious DISGRACE, but we do not here you bleating over that do we :?:

Anyway, I suspect poor Kevin ended up doing the thankless task because people like us sit on our butts and just criticise. Not to mention with your crazy posts who knows what sort of trouble you'll get the ACF into unless we have someone taking turns and sharing the burden.

PS - what weight division are you? I'll be happy to meet you for a boxing session the next time I visit MCC. :-''

I will not stand for you criticising the Grand Poobah :x :evil: :evil:

He is not a disgrace, but in fact has probably acted (with paul) with a great deal of common sense and maturity to head off an explosive situation - not once, but twice

As a result of his well articulated negotiation skills, we have come to a situation where the old ACF posters and the chess kit admins are in agreement - where the ACF sections of this BB are moderrated by Kevin and Paul, and the suspension of an ACF user is subject to their agreement.

Kevin has done a perfect job, and I am very thankful and appreciative of his efforts to obtain "win-win" outcomes to us all

There is no rude for you to be so rude to him :x :evil:

firegoat7
05-01-2004, 08:55 PM
I am stating the bleeding obvious to you again. Do you actually think that it is acceptable to have secret administrators?? Maybe you like the idea of secret police? Prehaps you also like to control people?

What I like is democracy. A situation where I can decide as an adult what I choose. Of course to make informed choices I need information.

Do you honestly find it acceptable as a grown adult that a fellow bulletin board member is a (Secret) administrator. Whatever happend to openness,honesty and informed decision making. Why didnt KB just tell us he was an administrator initially?

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 09:04 PM
When peahead and chessbugger open their eyes, they might realise that their rss kissing contribute nothing.
As opposed to your continual criticism no doubt. :rolleyes:

You and your mates at the MCC cant even be bothered turning up at CV AGM's. [-X

peanbrain
05-01-2004, 09:05 PM
What I like is democracy. A situation where I can decide as an adult what I choose. Of course to make informed choices I need information.


hahaha firegoat you crack me up mate. What would you know about democracy given your track record of preferring to use you fists?? =D>

I don't agree with you on anything you've raised on this board so far, as you've never offered any valid arguments like a grown up, but prefer to call people rude names just because things are not running the way you want them to run. Nevertheless, I do think you are an amazing character - I assume that you're obviously forced to use your fists to resolve problems because you have no thumbs. :-&

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2004, 09:09 PM
P.S the secret administrator is also another obvious DISGRACE, but we do not here you bleating over that do we :?:

:D :D :D

Oh, look who missed the picnic. :P

Obviously if I had been as big a DISGRACE as you pretend, I would have moderated you out of existence the second time you bleated the word "clown" in my direction. Instead, our moderation of you was really very, very light. Just think back over all the rubbish that you spouted in my direction, and all the time I could have simply pressed the delete button and it would be gone - and you didn't know that at the time. But I didn't do it. I doubt you would have had that strength of character in my position, but I guess I can live without finding that out. :D

And now we get an absolutely feeble counterattack from you about "policy". There's a small difference between our modes of operation here. I only complain about policy where I am certain that it is bad, and I can make a logical case that it is without feeling the need to spray biased gratuitous venom at all within range. That's why my complaints about this have been getting results whereas all your whining on the old BB acheived nothing at all.

:-({|=

PS I actually ate goat on New Year's Day. Never had it before but I thought it tasted a bit like a cross between sheep and bull. I think there's something in that for everyone. :rolleyes:

peanbrain
05-01-2004, 09:12 PM
What I like is democracy. A situation where I can decide as an adult what I choose. Of course to make informed choices I need information.

Bill - you are spot on! This idiot says he need information to make informed choice and he didn't even bothered to turn up at the CV AGM?! :shock:

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2004, 09:14 PM
Whatever happend to openness,honesty and informed decision making. Why didnt KB just tell us he was an administrator initially?

Whatever happened to reading the threads before posting questions that have already been answered?

There was a difficult situation between Matt and I that had been going on for some time when the BB started up early in 03. Paul wanted help with the moderation but we weren't sure what sort of terms Matt would be on with me, as on the old BBs we had been incommunicado for nearly a year. So Paul said I could use his account to moderate without my identity needing to be revealed. As I mentioned elsewhere, I only used that power in extreme cases - perhaps fifteen times all year.

firegoat7
05-01-2004, 09:34 PM
:D

Yeah I guess the new bulletin board is a real hoot with all these mature little emoticons.
:D :) :( :o :D 8) :? :shock: :x :P :oops: :( ;) :rolleyes: :twisted: :evil: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow:

Yeah interesting ideas. I admit they add aesthetic value, we all get a bit bored with the discussion around here. So here is my challenge to you.

I will leave the bulletin board, finally, hooray ;) and predict what will happen while I am away.

BG- will act conservative and reactionary against anything progressive-always argueing from a scientific instrumental position that dehumanises people.

KB- will march on with his presidential grandeurs of self importance, justifying his own self worth through demeaning any opposite ideal.

Starter- will take moralistic positions against people without any progression

Chesslover- will kiss rsss and never discover an original thought

Peanbrain- will kibitz

Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought

gg- will pontificate ideals of ACF nonsense worth nothing whilst building his chess business

jenni- will not rest until juniors take over the world

shaun- will implement his user pay system philosophy

BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

Arosar- will tell people to relax

PB- will tell you to chill, then get stressed over semites.

whilst Jase will try to be funny in a try hard way.

Have fun ;) ;) Im off to play in my band and resume studies. Cheers

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 09:38 PM
gg- will pontificate ideals of ACF nonsense worth nothing whilst building his chess business
I assume by this you think gg is Graeme Gardiner.
Its Garvin Gray.
As far as I know he does nor run a chess business.

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 09:41 PM
Have fun ;) ;) Im off to play in my band and resume studies. Cheers
Yes, back to the circus for you ya clown. :P

shaun
05-01-2004, 10:16 PM
shaun- will implement his user pay system philosophy

Gee, you had to fish around for this one. Even I don't understand what it means.

paulb
05-01-2004, 10:29 PM
PB- will tell you to chill, then get stressed over semites.

:shock:

PHAT
05-01-2004, 11:04 PM
:D

BG- will act conservative and reactionary against anything progressive-always argueing from a scientific instrumental position that dehumanises people.

KB- will march on with his presidential grandeurs of self importance, justifying his own self worth through demeaning any opposite ideal.

Starter- will take moralistic positions against people without any progression

Chesslover- will kiss rsss and never discover an original thought

Peanbrain- will kibitz

Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought

gg- will pontificate ideals of ACF nonsense worth nothing whilst building his chess business

jenni- will not rest until juniors take over the world

shaun- will implement his user pay system philosophy

BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

Arosar- will tell people to relax

PB- will tell you to chill, then get stressed over semites.

whilst Jase will try to be funny in a try hard way.



This is not too bad a character summary!! Not perfect, a couple of sus points, but overall, the info is close enough to give a new gladiator a fighting chance in the Colussium.

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 11:10 PM
:D

BG- will act conservative and reactionary against anything progressive-always argueing from a scientific instrumental position that dehumanises people.

KB- will march on with his presidential grandeurs of self importance, justifying his own self worth through demeaning any opposite ideal.

Starter- will take moralistic positions against people without any progression

Chesslover- will kiss rsss and never discover an original thought

Peanbrain- will kibitz

Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought

gg- will pontificate ideals of ACF nonsense worth nothing whilst building his chess business

jenni- will not rest until juniors take over the world

shaun- will implement his user pay system philosophy

BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

Arosar- will tell people to relax

PB- will tell you to chill, then get stressed over semites.

whilst Jase will try to be funny in a try hard way.



This is not too bad a character summary!! Not perfect, a couple of sus points, but overall, the info is close enough to give a new gladiator a fighting chance in the Colussium.
Now why doesnt it surprise me you would think that.
Ah yes firegoats glowing praise of you.

Well dont flatter yourself.

A more accurate decsription would have been:
Matt - Will make false accusations and false assumptions thru lack of study or understanding.

BG - Will argue on principle even if it means defending dipsticks, cretins, morons and clowns. Occasionaly wishes he hadnt bothered.

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2004, 11:26 PM
BG- will act conservative and reactionary against anything progressive-always argueing from a scientific instrumental position that dehumanises people.

Scientific instrumentalism is a term that gets used in a range of ways in different contexts.

In one sense (simply the sense of science being able to develop effective concepts and models) there is nothing dehumanising about it at all.

In another sense (science as a setter of goals as well as a method for measuring ways to get to them - in the most extreme form the isolation of values from policy) your attack on Bill is incorrect - his comments have usually been based around a values-based goal set for him by the ACF Council. The use of science in measurement is not incompatible with practical instrumentalism. In general, Bill's comments are consistent with the latter.

The funny thing is that you argue against conservatism, but this sort of cliched whingeing about scientific dehumanisation often ultimately implies an anti-rationalist retreat to conservatism, communitarianism (which is largely just conservatism in modernised clothes), or religious fundamentalism. It doesn't mesh well with a democratic position at all - because sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that people vote for politicians, who delegate their tasks to bureaucrats.


KB- will march on with his presidential grandeurs of self importance, justifying his own self worth through demeaning any opposite ideal.

Ah, what a delight it is to see our frothy farmyard friend forfeit another round with more gutless unqualified psychobabble. Sunshine, if I was that self-obsessed why would I spend my time on chess administration - it would make more sense to spend it training to be a better player, don't you think?

Now, you'd have it that I identify an opposing ideal and then demean it. No, that is what you do. I identify an ideal - or idea - that deserves demeaning and then oppose it. Of course, if I merely disagree, I don't oppose it nearly as forcefully. For instance, I have often opposed Paul's positions on off-topic issues while respecting them and I don't think either of us has been demeaning in the slightest. And anyway, why do you complain about me getting stuck into your positions when you end up abandoning them anyway? :rolleyes:


Starter- will take moralistic positions against people without any progression

Again, that would be you with your inane self-righteous jibbering about matters of political philosophy that you demonstrably know nothing about.


Chesslover- will kiss rsss and never discover an original thought

I reckon CL is actually less of a herd animal than you - not that it matters, because the real issue isn't "is the thought original", it's "does it actually have merit?"


Peanbrain- will kibitz

Rather more rationally and calmly than you based on his performance over the last few days - at least when he wants to.


Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought

While falling over in disbelief that he actually has his first sycophant.


jenni- will not rest until juniors take over the world

I hope they do, starting with your rating. Oops, has that already happened? :shock:


BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

Less conservative than the ultimate implications of your nonsense.


Im off to play in my band

Yeah. I left you that violin because I don't want you anywhere near rock, especially not if you're the lyricist.


and resume studies.

When you've done a real methodology course, do let us know.

PHAT
05-01-2004, 11:36 PM
A more accurate decsription would have been:
Matt - Will make false accusations and false assumptions thru lack of study or understanding.

BG - Will argue on principle even if it means defending dipsticks, cretins, morons and clowns. Occasionaly wishes he hadnt bothered.

You seem to think that I have as much ego invested in being right as you do. Well, I am telling you yet again, that I do not. Some things are important - I mean actually/truly important. The arguments here (BB) are trifling and mostly inconsequential. Getting it wrong with real money, real lives, real chess admin is of course something to be avoided. But here it doesn't matter. If I get it wrong ........ what happens? Nothing. If the NSWCA and the ACF continue to get it wrong in the real world, the important world, chess will not reach its potential. It will be because of the risk-averse and glacial nature of Australian chess admin in general.

Bill Gletsos
05-01-2004, 11:40 PM
A more accurate decsription would have been:
Matt - Will make false accusations and false assumptions thru lack of study or understanding.

BG - Will argue on principle even if it means defending dipsticks, cretins, morons and clowns. Occasionaly wishes he hadnt bothered.

You seem to think that I have as much ego invested in being right as you do. Well, I am telling you yet again, that I do not. Some things are important - I mean actually/truly important. The arguments here (BB) are trifling and mostly inconsequential. Getting it wrong with real money, real lives, real chess admin is of course something to be avoided. But here it doesn't matter. If I get it wrong ........ what happens? Nothing. If the NSWCA and the ACF continue to get it wrong in the real world, the important world, chess will not reach its potential. It will be because of the risk-averse and glacial nature of Australian chess admin in general.
As opposed to the Sweeney method of who cares if we lose money on some brain dead idea because after all its not my(Matt's) money anyway.

Kevin Bonham
05-01-2004, 11:48 PM
Getting it wrong with real money, real lives, real chess admin is of course something to be avoided.

But making silly bets is fine. :D

Garvinator
05-01-2004, 11:57 PM
gg- will pontificate ideals of ACF nonsense worth nothing whilst building his chess business
I assume by this you think gg is Graeme Gardiner.
Its Garvin Gray.
As far as I know he does nor run a chess business.

You are an idiot firegoat7, i hope you come back so you can get a taste of what i can actually be like in a debate with a goat like you. I dont have a conflict of interest now, so i can rip into you as much as i like. I would have thought with a name like ggrayggray and other posters referring to me as my first name of Garvin, i thought it was pretty obvious that im not Graeme Gardiner :rolleyes: .

Graeme and I only have a connection as I have played at his business a few times and have discussed a few matters of personal and business concerns.

You claim that others have their facts wrong most of the time, wouldnt this be an example of pot calling the kettle black :twisted:

Rincewind
05-01-2004, 11:59 PM
PS I actually ate goat on New Year's Day. Never had it before but I thought it tasted a bit like a cross between sheep and bull. I think there's something in that for everyone. :rolleyes:

I hope it was kid and not goat. The brisket of the kid is quiet popular in Italy, not so much here. I ate it in Italy and I didn't mind it but after the people I were dining with were raving about it, I was slightly disappointed.

But fresh bocconcini made from buffalo milk, now that is goooood! =P~

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 12:14 AM
I'm not sure. I go to the Taste of Tasmania just once every year and consider it a failure if I don't eat at least one animal I haven't eaten before. However I'm running out of options fast. This was goat cooked African style (not sure which part of Africa) with a strong spicy potato curry. The curry may have swamped it a little but it wasn't bad.

Rincewind
06-01-2004, 12:24 AM
I imagine you have already tried snails. Or has familiarity bred contempt. :D

PHAT
06-01-2004, 12:32 AM
The funny thing is that FG7 argue against conservatism, but this sort of cliched whingeing about scientific dehumanisation often ultimately implies an anti-rationalist retreat to conservatism, communitarianism (which is largely just conservatism in modernised clothes), or religious fundamentalism. It doesn't mesh well with a democratic position at all - because sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that people vote for politicians, who delegate their tasks to bureaucrats.

Pure rubbish. Not an iota of argument in it. Just a stream of cliche cobbled together to sound clever. Lazy work. Rework and submit it again


Ah, what a delight it is to see our frothy farmyard friend forfeit another round with more gutless unqualified psychobabble. Sunshine, if I was that self-obsessed why would I spend my time on chess administration - it would make more sense to spend it training to be a better player, don't you think?

You have no children by choice, ipso facto, you are self-obsessed.


Again, that would be FG7 with your inane self-righteous jibbering about matters of political philosophy that you demonstrably know nothing about.

Since when has it been manditary to have a degree in lieing to the masses to have an opinion on lieing to the masses. You realy are up yourself.


I reckon CL is actually less of a herd animal than [FG7] - not that it matters, because the real issue isn't "is the thought original", it's "does it actually have merit?"

FO, FG7 was slagging off a lack of "[orginal thought]". You cannot say that "[merrit]" is the real point. It is not your place in the discussion to move the goal posts and claim that FG7 missed them.


Peanbrain- will kibitz

Rather more rationally and calmly than you based on his performance over the last few days - at least when he wants to.

So, Pea still kibitzes - not recently - but I am sure he will enjoy a return to normal.


Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought


While falling over in disbelief that he actually has his first sycophant.

Overstating the case - afterall it is only one sentance among thousands.




jenni- will not rest until juniors take over the world
I hope they do, starting with your rating. Oops, has that already happened? :shock:

ad hominae .Yawn


BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

Less conservative than the ultimate implications of your nonsense.



Give-up Bonham. This is the weakest flame effort I have seen in weeks. If you cannot write something worth the electrons, just go to bed.

Overall mark : PASS TERMINATING

Bill Gletsos
06-01-2004, 12:46 AM
Overall mark : PASS TERMINATING
I seriously doubt anyone particularly cares about your opinion in these matters.

As for your attempt I give it a big F, for FAIL.

PHAT
06-01-2004, 12:58 AM
Overall mark : PASS TERMINATING
I seriously doubt anyone particularly cares about your opinion in these matters.

As for your attempt I give it a big F, for FAIL.

I didn't submit my critique to you for marking. So your F means FA to me.

Bill Gletsos
06-01-2004, 01:01 AM
Overall mark : PASS TERMINATING
I seriously doubt anyone particularly cares about your opinion in these matters.

As for your attempt I give it a big F, for FAIL.

I didn't submit my critique to you for marking. So your F means FA to me.
Since you were stupid enough to give Kevin's post a grading then you deserved one yourself.

Rincewind
06-01-2004, 01:06 AM
BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

I'm honoured to be classed with Australia's greatest living exponent of the game (obviously the classification is not based on chess ability). Not sure what was meant by the comment though.

If you mean to say that I'm risk adverse then I would say I'm adverse to taking risks that one does not need to take and adverse to gamble that which one cannot afford to lose. Is that not sensible? If that makes me a conservative in your books, then so be it.

But good luck with the band.

PHAT
06-01-2004, 01:11 AM
BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

I'm honoured to be classed with Australia's greatest living exponent of the game (obviously the classification is not based on chess ability).

I am not sure that Ian Rout is "Australia's greatest living exponent of the game" :D

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 01:16 AM
Pure rubbish. Not an iota of argument in it. Just a stream of cliche cobbled together to sound clever. Lazy work. Rework and submit it again

No evidence. Rework and submit to this smiley: =; Oh and do come back when you know what you're talking about.

Actually there was more argument in my reply (I think I actually even gave supporting evidence for maybe one whole point) than in firegoat's entire charade. I've pointed it out before - he doesn't argue well enough to be worth a rigorous debate. Nor do you, most of the time.


You have no children by choice, ipso facto, you are self-obsessed.

Incorrect - though self-interest plays some role in it. I have many reasons for not choosing to have children. What do you have to say about the phenomenon of people having children to look after them when they are older, or to vicariously live through them, by the way - not relevant but I'm curious? Want to take this up in the offtopic section?


Since when has it been manditary to have a degree in lieing to the masses to have an opinion on lieing to the masses.

It isn't necessary to have a degree to have an opinion on anything, silly.

Firegoat's opinions on pol-phil have been shown to be drivel repeatedly to the point where he modified his terms in response to my critiques.


FO, FG7 was slagging off a lack of "[orginal thought]". You cannot say that "[merrit]" is the real point. It is not your place in the discussion to move the goal posts and claim that FG7 missed them.

My point is that his criticisms of CL are not necessarily things to hold against a person without more evidence. Entirely relevant.


Overstating the case - afterall it is only one sentance among thousands.

*snorts*

You have defended firegoat and David Richards just to give you something to whine against Bill and I over on numerous occassions. It is not one sentence, it is a systematic tendency almost as pronounced as CL over-praising Bill.


ad hominae .Yawn

I don't see you flaming firegoat for those. Or yourself.


This is the weakest flame effort I have seen in weeks.

You must be posting with your eyes shut then.

Actually while being fairly boring I thought it had a few nice little touches on the side. The violin, surely, was at least acceptable. But even if it had been the worst thing I had ever written, it would still flog your lazy biased firegoat-sycophant reply - and I could point out how my creative energies had been sapped saving your sorry hide instead of leaving you to rot on g-minus-7 like the backwards pawn you are.

You owe Bill and I and also other regulars a large debt of gratitude for fishing you out of there. In my case, please repay it by continuing to make yourself look as silly as always. :P


Overall mark : PASS TERMINATING

Yeah right. Terminating your nonsense maybe. But you and firegoat are such easy prey that just knocking you both over isn't worth 15%.

Nice to be back to business as normal, aint it? :D

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 02:16 AM
I didn't submit my critique to you for marking. So your F means FA to me.

Good, cause that post earns you three more:

F for logic (rampant inconsistency).
F for English (can't comprehend self-irony).
F for geography (doesn't know own place in the classroom).

:rolleyes:

I can think of one thing I would ever submit to you for marking.

And even then I'd expect you to drop it. :shock:

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 03:06 AM
I imagine you have already tried snails. Or has familiarity bred contempt. :D

Actually only once, and very recently at that. Rather unremarkable I thought, more or less what I expected.

That's #2 on the snail FAQ by the way.

Rincewind
06-01-2004, 08:52 AM
BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

I'm honoured to be classed with Australia's greatest living exponent of the game (obviously the classification is not based on chess ability).

I am not sure that Ian Rout is "Australia's greatest living exponent of the game" :D

Hey, if the kid is going to use deliberate ambiguity, I'm going to take it any way I like. :D

Besides, Ian Rout may not be Australia's greatest living exponent of the game, but he might just be the greatest to emerge from Dapto. That's something, isn't it? ;)

Rincewind
06-01-2004, 09:05 AM
Actually only once, and very recently at that. Rather unremarkable I thought, more or less what I expected.

That's #2 on the snail FAQ by the way.

Sorry, not familiar with the FAQ. Have you tried them in a red sauce with spaghetti?

PHAT
06-01-2004, 09:12 AM
[quote="Matthew Sweeney"][quote="Barry Cox"][quote="firegoat7"]Besides, Ian Rout may not be Australia's greatest living exponent of the game, but he might just be the greatest to emerge from Dapto. That's something, isn't it? ;)

DAPTO!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :shock: I do not believe it. It is a case of the silk purse and the sow's ear.

Rincewind
06-01-2004, 09:29 AM
That's unkind. I think Wollongong etiquette is only people from Berkeley are allowed to hassle Dapto, and then only the occasional friendly jibe. ;)

Besides, many champions have been produced in Dapto. Admittedly, they have all been greyhounds, but hey, you can't be expected to dominate in all sports. :D

PHAT
06-01-2004, 10:18 AM
That's unkind. I think Wollongong etiquette is only people from Berkeley are allowed to hassle Dapto, and then only the occasional friendly jibe. ;)


If this is to be the June Daily-Watkins inspired pecking order, nobody is in a position to hassel Bellambians. (except maybe people from Caudaux Heights)


Soory dudes, in jokes - you have to know Bellambi to get it, but you can live without that experiance.

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 01:39 PM
Sorry, not familiar with the FAQ. Have you tried them in a red sauce with spaghetti?

No. That would be one for the NBAQ. :D

(The snail FAQ doesn't actually exist, but I often joke about creating it and carrying it around in my pocket to save time answering the same questions.)

chesslover
06-01-2004, 07:36 PM
I will leave the bulletin board, finally, hooray ;) and predict what will happen while I am away.

Chesslover- will kiss rsss and never discover an original thought

Have fun ;) ;) Im off to play in my band and resume studies. Cheers

1. I have had original thoughts and have not kissed rsses. When I think that a point is well made, I have stated that. Also I have voiced opinions in relation to the US presidential elections, President Bush's war on terror, Israel that have been at odds with most of the BB posters. Even in the NECG thread, I was attacked by most people in the ACF BB, for letting democracy prevail by publishing publically availiable info on NECG senior execuitives, to get around the undemocratic no appeal policy of the ACF

2. Why does "studies" and playing band, precluede from posting in this BB? They are not mutually exclusive :? Or can you only focus and do only one thing at a time :idea:

chesslover
06-01-2004, 07:44 PM
BG- will act conservative and reactionary against anything progressive-always argueing from a scientific instrumental position that dehumanises people.

Scientific instrumentalism is a term that gets used in a range of ways in different contexts.

In one sense (simply the sense of science being able to develop effective concepts and models) there is nothing dehumanising about it at all.

In another sense (science as a setter of goals as well as a method for measuring ways to get to them - in the most extreme form the isolation of values from policy) your attack on Bill is incorrect - his comments have usually been based around a values-based goal set for him by the ACF Council. The use of science in measurement is not incompatible with practical instrumentalism. In general, Bill's comments are consistent with the latter.

The funny thing is that you argue against conservatism, but this sort of cliched whingeing about scientific dehumanisation often ultimately implies an anti-rationalist retreat to conservatism, communitarianism (which is largely just conservatism in modernised clothes), or religious fundamentalism. It doesn't mesh well with a democratic position at all - because sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that people vote for politicians, who delegate their tasks to bureaucrats.


KB- will march on with his presidential grandeurs of self importance, justifying his own self worth through demeaning any opposite ideal.

Ah, what a delight it is to see our frothy farmyard friend forfeit another round with more gutless unqualified psychobabble. Sunshine, if I was that self-obsessed why would I spend my time on chess administration - it would make more sense to spend it training to be a better player, don't you think?

Now, you'd have it that I identify an opposing ideal and then demean it. No, that is what you do. I identify an ideal - or idea - that deserves demeaning and then oppose it. Of course, if I merely disagree, I don't oppose it nearly as forcefully. For instance, I have often opposed Paul's positions on off-topic issues while respecting them and I don't think either of us has been demeaning in the slightest. And anyway, why do you complain about me getting stuck into your positions when you end up abandoning them anyway? :rolleyes:


Starter- will take moralistic positions against people without any progression

Again, that would be you with your inane self-righteous jibbering about matters of political philosophy that you demonstrably know nothing about.


Chesslover- will kiss rsss and never discover an original thought

I reckon CL is actually less of a herd animal than you - not that it matters, because the real issue isn't "is the thought original", it's "does it actually have merit?"


Peanbrain- will kibitz

Rather more rationally and calmly than you based on his performance over the last few days - at least when he wants to.


Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought

While falling over in disbelief that he actually has his first sycophant.


jenni- will not rest until juniors take over the world

I hope they do, starting with your rating. Oops, has that already happened? :shock:


BC and IR- will talk sense from a conservative position.

Less conservative than the ultimate implications of your nonsense.


Im off to play in my band

Yeah. I left you that violin because I don't want you anywhere near rock, especially not if you're the lyricist.


and resume studies.

When you've done a real methodology course, do let us know.

My nominee for the best BB post

Very very witty indeed. I was laughing so hard at your wittiness :D :D

Maybe after his "studies" firegoat will be able to come back with an effective retort. Let us just hope that firegoat does not get expelled for fighting in class :D

chesslover
06-01-2004, 07:54 PM
The funny thing is that FG7 argue against conservatism, but this sort of cliched whingeing about scientific dehumanisation often ultimately implies an anti-rationalist retreat to conservatism, communitarianism (which is largely just conservatism in modernised clothes), or religious fundamentalism. It doesn't mesh well with a democratic position at all - because sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that people vote for politicians, who delegate their tasks to bureaucrats.

Pure rubbish. Not an iota of argument in it. Just a stream of cliche cobbled together to sound clever. Lazy work. Rework and submit it again


Ah, what a delight it is to see our frothy farmyard friend forfeit another round with more gutless unqualified psychobabble. Sunshine, if I was that self-obsessed why would I spend my time on chess administration - it would make more sense to spend it training to be a better player, don't you think?

You have no children by choice, ipso facto, you are self-obsessed.


I reckon CL is actually less of a herd animal than [FG7] - not that it matters, because the real issue isn't "is the thought original", it's "does it actually have merit?"

FO, FG7 was slagging off a lack of "[orginal thought]". You cannot say that "[merrit]" is the real point. It is not your place in the discussion to move the goal posts and claim that FG7 missed them.


Matt- will stir the pot mixing humor with thought

While falling over in disbelief that he actually has his first sycophant.

Overstating the case - afterall it is only one sentance among thousands.



Give-up Bonham. This is the weakest flame effort I have seen in weeks. If you cannot write something worth the electrons, just go to bed.

Overall mark : PASS TERMINATING[/quote]

You are the failure not Kevin. YOU give up, and maybe you should go back to "studies" with your only mate Firegoat. At least if you get into a fight, you will have someone experienced in the arts of fighting to stand besides you :D

1. I thought Kevin's response to firegoat's vicious attack on Bill was very clever. Kevin is truely very intellectual

2. You are really an IDIOT. What the hell has having no child got to do with it? Why is not having a child being self obsessed?

3. I have on a lot of occasions had original thoughts on this BB - the NECG no appeal policy, the grand slam concept, the war on terror, President Bush, the US elections, giving Jeo a fair go, staying in the one new board etc. On many of these topics a lot of people opposed me

4. You get so little praise that you treasure each and every word that praises you. I notice that you regulalrly postin support of firegoat and david richards, the only 2 who have ever sucked up to you. Coincidence? i dont think so...