PDA

View Full Version : C.O.M.M.O.N Man tourney and NSW Transfer championship.



ursogr8
29-03-2005, 08:21 PM
Copied from another place
_____________________________

NSW Transfer Chess Championship
---------------------------------------------------------------------
C.O.M.M.O.N.M.A.N
and
NSW Open Transfer Chess Championship

100% of all entry fees paid back in prizes!

Commonman Weekender entry $40 ($20 for Health Card holders). Prizes: 1st and 2nd will be the same in 3 to 5 equally sized rating divisions, and pro rata 2 equally sized junior rating divisions. Juniors eligible for junior prises only. Estimate 1st places $120, 2nd places $80.

NSW Open Transfer entry $20 per team. Outright 1st wins Trophy + all non-Junior entry fees collected. Best performed Junior team (1st) wins all junior entry fees collected + Trophy. (This Championship is not currently a NSWCA recognised title - we live in hope.)

Commonman Weekender: 25/26 June 2005. Entries from 10 am. Half point bye available by arrangement. Games 60 min followed by 10 sec/move. Saturday R1 10:30, Lunch 12:30, R2 1:00, R3 3:15 (Transfer Open starts Saturday 7 pm) Sunday R4 10:00, Lunch 12:00, R5 1:00, R6 3:15, and an early finish ~5:30 and Free Beer! (or other drink)

NSW Open Transfer: Saturday evening 25th June 2005. ***Entries can only be made in person between 10:00 and 10:30 am.*** 7 round Swiss, start 7 pm, finish 9 pm.

Venue: Wollongong Collegians Club, Princes Highway Wollongong 30 minute drive from Sutherland, or 2.5 hours from Canberra.
Accommodation less than $100 for 2 persons: Keiraview Accommodation 4229 9700, Downtown Motel 42298344, Sky Accommodation 4228 9320.

Info: Matthew Sweeney, 42299107, 0402407873, mhjs@bigpond.net.au, p098.*******.com/b**************




starter

Bill Gletsos
29-03-2005, 08:33 PM
As he notes his so called "NSW Open Transfer Chess Championship" is not recognised by the NSWCA and it is unlikely it will be.

For starters we would want any such event to be open to a far greater number of participants especially juniors and holding it in Wollongong at 7pm on a Saturday night does not meet that requirement.

If he or anyone else wanted to put a proposal to the NSWCA to run a NSW Transfer Championship in Sydney on a weekend during the day, I'm sure the NSWCA would seriously consider recognising such a title.

Alan Shore
29-03-2005, 08:39 PM
As he notes his so called "NSW Open Transfer Chess Championship" is not recognised by the NSWCA and it is unlikely it will be.

For starters we would want any such event to be open to a far greater number of participants especially juniors and holding it in Wollongong at 7pm on a Saturday night does not meet that requirement.

He he or anyone else wanted to put a proposal to the NSWCA to run a NSW Transfer Championship in Sydney on a weekend during the day, I'm sure the NSWCA would seriously consider recognising such a title.

Who cares? It's just for fun. We already know the best Transfer players in NSW are Justin Tan and Neil Wright (Ron Scott also is strong) so I'm sure in this case no one really cares what the NSWCA thinks about it.. after all, you aren't called the NSWTCA.....

Libby
29-03-2005, 08:48 PM
Who cares? It's just for fun. We already know the best Transfer players in NSW are Justin Tan and Neil Wright (Ron Scott also is strong) so I'm sure in this case no one really cares what the NSWCA thinks about it.. after all, you aren't called the NSWTCA.....

And you aren't running anything as an alternative ...

Anyway, we run a very successful fun transfer event in the ACT with ACTJCL. This year we've incorporated it into our "official" calendar as our end of year event. We allow adults to play in the event and have had a lot of success getting Dads to play with kids. Even if the Dads spend half the afternoon looking confused.

We thought transfer (incorporating many of the adults who work with us all year) made a great "break-up" event to end 2005 and plan to try an end of year presentation and informal "function" to follow with maybe some first-time annual awards etc. We always had such things in other sports I participated in. Seems a better place to look at awarding life memberships, clubman of the year and player of the year awards than at some AGM or low profile event.

Chess needs to be more social. Not that the games shouldn't be serious but I like the Adelaide Uni example of more "events" being built around our "events." I thought that was a big opportunity missed in Mt B (I know, I mentioned it again).

Bill Gletsos
29-03-2005, 08:54 PM
Who cares? It's just for fun.No one isnt saying it isnt for fun.
However surely one criteria is that the widest range of players can participate. Holding it in Wollongong at 7pm on a Saturday night misses the mark.

We already know the best Transfer players in NSW are Justin Tan and Neil Wright (Ron Scott also is strong)There is a big difference between knowing and proving. As such they need to prove it in actual competition.

so I'm sure in this case no one really cares what the NSWCA thinks about it.. after all, you aren't called the NSWTCA.....We arent called the NSWLCA or the NSWRCA for lightning or rapid chess respectively but we are still responsible for those titles.
Also the ACF now recognises the title of Australian Transfer Champion.
As such it is entirely reasonable that the State associations should be responsible for recognising their respective State titles.
After all we wouldnt want just anybody claiming to be a State or National champion just because someone used the states name or the word national in its title now would we. :whistle:

Bill Gletsos
29-03-2005, 08:58 PM
And you aren't running anything as an alternative ...That is not a valid reason why it cannot be criticised. Everyone knows that juniors love Transfer yet this event is being held at a time and a place that would seem to preclude the majority of them from participation.

Anyway, we run a very successful fun transfer event in the ACT with ACTJCL.Actually I'd like to see the NSWCA do a similar thing with the NSWJCL.

Chess needs to be more social. Not that the games shouldn't be serious but I like the Adelaide Uni example of more "events" being built around our "events." I thought that was a big opportunity missed in Mt B (I know, I mentioned it again).And dont think we didnt notice. ;)

Alan Shore
29-03-2005, 09:03 PM
Bill, it is knowing and proving... log onto FICS (easily the world's premier site for bughouse/transfer). You will see 'tantheman' is currently ranked #1 in the world. I think that satisfies your 'criteria'. ;)

Bill Gletsos
29-03-2005, 09:26 PM
Bill, it is knowing and proving... log onto FICS (easily the world's premier site for bughouse/transfer). You will see 'tantheman' is currently ranked #1 in the world. I think that satisfies your 'criteria'. ;)I had heard that previously. However just because he is #1 in the world on FICS doesnt mean he would be #1 in a NSW event on the day. :lol:
He may just have an off day. ;)
After all Kasparov has been rated world number 1 for nearly 20 years but he has lost tournaments to others during that time.

Garvinator
29-03-2005, 09:28 PM
I had heard that previously. However just because he is #1 in the world on FICS doesnt mean he would be #1 in a NSW event on the day. :lol:

also it is all well and good to be number 1 on fics, but are they number 1 on icc as well ;)

Alan Shore
29-03-2005, 10:01 PM
also it is all well and good to be number 1 on fics, but are they number 1 on icc as well ;)

Ahahaha....

ICC is rabbit country when it comes to transfer. Me and another decent partner crushed two GM's partnered. :cool:

Trent Parker
29-03-2005, 10:33 PM
For starters we would want any such event to be open to a far greater number of participants especially juniors and holding it in Wollongong...
Be careful Bill. We are the NSW chess association, Not the Sydney Chess association. Events should be made available for other places to hold.... not that i'm saying that this event should be recognised by the NSWCA as being official.


at 7pm on a Saturday night does not meet that requirement. agreed. This is probably not optimal but i notice that he has cut his "common man" tournament down from seven to six rounds. Perhaps he is trying to do this Transfer tournament in place of a seventh round, thus trying to add an additional carrot to possible entrants.


He he or anyone else wanted to put a proposal to the NSWCA to run a NSW Transfer Championship in Sydney on a weekend during the day, I'm sure the NSWCA would seriously consider recognising such a title.
Why does it have to be in Sydney?

To tell the truth i couln't really care about transfer. I suck at it! :lol:

Bill Gletsos
29-03-2005, 11:32 PM
Be careful Bill. We are the NSW chess association, Not the Sydney Chess association. Events should be made available for other places to hold.... not that i'm saying that this event should be recognised by the NSWCA as being official.True, thats why we hold the Country Championship outside Sydney.
However one consideration of holding a NSW ttile event is to do so in a place where you would have the greatest number of potential participants.

agreed. This is probably not optimal but i notice that he has cut his "common man" tournament down from seven to six rounds. Perhaps he is trying to do this Transfer tournament in place of a seventh round, thus trying to add an additional carrot to possible entrants. Who knows. He probably just thought a transfer event would be a good idea and decided to tack it on to his Common Man event.

Why does it have to be in Sydney?Because the majority of transfer players are juniors and the majority of juniors are in Sydney.

The point is if Matt really had wanted to run this with NSWCA recognition he should have approached the NSWCA first, not name his event then complain that the NSWCA doesnt recognise it.
No doubt he named it as such because he knew it would not be recognised and thus would have another excuse to attack the NSWCA.

Rincewind
29-03-2005, 11:42 PM
However one consideration of holding a NSW ttile event is to do so in a place where you would have the greatest number of potential participants.

One could suggest that the same argument could be made regarding the Australian Open. :rolleyes:


Who knows. He probably just thought a transfer event would be a good idea and decided to tack it on to his Common Man event.

Yes of course he is trying to encourage more players to the weekender. I doubt anyone would take it seriously and anyone who did would be laughed out of town by anyone with a clue.

I don't think it replacing a round in the CM though as I don't believe they have ever had evening rounds in that event. Matt must have secured a venue and was presented with the opportunity to run an evening round or a novelty event.

Some people travelling to and from the event from Sydney (and not staying locally) will probably opt out. Which makes me wonder how big the draw will be, since by making it a team event you are immediately cutting your number of entries in the draw by 2.

Bill Gletsos
29-03-2005, 11:52 PM
One could suggest that the same argument could be made regarding the Australian Open. :rolleyes:The circumstances there were different.


Yes of course he is trying to encourage more players to the weekender. I doubt anyone would take it seriously and anyone who did would be laughed out of town by anyone with a clue.Which is why his name wasnt the best choice. He could have called it the Common Man Transfer Championship.


I don't think it replacing a round in the CM though as I don't believe they have ever had evening rounds in that event. Matt must have secured a venue and was presented with the opportunity to run an evening round or a novelty event.

Some people travelling to and from the event from Sydney (and not staying locally) will probably opt out. Which makes me wonder how big the draw will be, since by making it a team event you are immediately cutting your number of entries in the draw by 2.Well the numbers at last years common man event was only 16 players, so I suppose anything that would help increase that has to be a positive.

However I think Libby and the ACTJCL have the right idea.
Running a weekend event that caters for juniors but allows adult participation would seem the way to go.

Thunderspirit
30-03-2005, 03:23 PM
Those who know me would agree when I say that I'm not usually politically correct, but the 'Common Man' doesn't encourage women and girls very much... :crazy:

Seeing this at women's chess is an important issue, you'd think Matt would have more sense.

On the event itself: Have a transfer tournament fine, but don't try and make it into something special...

Bill Gletsos
30-03-2005, 03:37 PM
Those who know me would agree when I say that I'm not usually politically correct, but the 'Common Man' doesn't encourage women and girls very much... :crazy:He probably sees most chess events as elitist because the higher prize money is paid to the higher rated players hence his "common man " approach.

Seeing this at women's chess is an important issue, you'd think Matt would have more sense.Dont hold your breath, as he hasnt shown he has in the past. ;)

On the event itself: Have a transfer tournament fine, but don't try and make it into something special...Agreed.

Libby
30-03-2005, 04:45 PM
The circumstances there were different.

Well, yes, the circumstances for Mt Buller were very different however haven't the Juniors also had to travel to Morwell, Hervey Bay etc. Not exactly thriving metropolitan hubs?

It's a bit of a time-waster as an argument because it isn't a recognised event but I wouldn't agree that holding it in Wollongong should prevent recognition. If a title is valued enough to stand alone, people will travel great distances for it.

However, if you want it to be (as our ACT event is) a fun afternoon of social chess, I wouldn't expect to attract the top NSW (FICS or ICC) exponents of the game.

I'd suggest the prestige, prizes and quality of the organisation are bigger issues than the distance required to travel. Wollongong isn't exactly Broken Hill. At Toukley, we ACT players thought a lot of Sydney-siders were wimps given how short a distance it actually is for you guys compared to us.

Rincewind
30-03-2005, 04:51 PM
I'd suggest the prestige, prizes and quality of the organisation are bigger issues than the distance required to travel. Wollongong isn't exactly Broken Hill. At Toukley, we ACT players thought a lot of Sydney-siders were wimps given how short a distance it actually is for you guys compared to us.

It is a question of degrees. But 1,000s of people commute daily from Wollongong to Sydney's CBD so, as you say, it isnt exactly Broken Hill. (Not even in the same timezone ;) ).

Bill Gletsos
30-03-2005, 05:07 PM
Well, yes, the circumstances for Mt Buller were very different however haven't the Juniors also had to travel to Morwell, Hervey Bay etc. Not exactly thriving metropolitan hubs?The situtaion is like chalk and cheese. Those events were officially sanctioned ACF events for Australian titles, not some attempt by someone to just name their event the Australian XXXX Championship and hope for the best.

It's a bit of a time-waster as an argument because it isn't a recognised event but I wouldn't agree that holding it in Wollongong should prevent recognition. If a title is valued enough to stand alone, people will travel great distances for it.True but I suggested the timing of 7pm at night. In fact the event seems to be tacked on as an after thought to the main tournament.
If Matt wanted to run a recognised NSW Transfer championship he should have approached the NSWCA or the NSWJCL prior to announcing his event and not just named his event and hope that it will be retrospectively recognised.
However if the NSWCA were to recognise such a title we would call for bids from interested parties, assuming we decided not to run it ourselves.

However, if you want it to be (as our ACT event is) a fun afternoon of social chess, I wouldn't expect to attract the top NSW (FICS or ICC) exponents of the game.I think we would wish to cater to the social and the serious transfer players.

I'd suggest the prestige, prizes and quality of the organisation are bigger issues than the distance required to travel.No doubt but tacking an event on as an after thought isnt the way to go.

Wollongong isn't exactly Broken Hill. At Toukley, we ACT players thought a lot of Sydney-siders were wimps given how short a distance it actually is for you guys compared to us.I guess we have a reasonable number of weekenders (either NSWCA or non NSWCA events) so NSW players can afford to be a little choosey.

ursogr8
30-03-2005, 05:15 PM
Those who know me would agree when I say that I'm not usually politically correct, but the 'Common Man' doesn't encourage women and girls very much... :crazy:

Seeing this at women's chess is an important issue, you'd think Matt would have more sense.

On the event itself: Have a transfer tournament fine, but don't try and make it into something special...

hi Libber

Looks to me that you have involved at least one of the fairer gender.
In particular, Dorothy Dixer.
Your post is an open invitation to xxxx to have another serve at this fledgling promoter.

What about we see some positive comments from senior NSW personnel at least wishing the promoter some success?


starter

Libby
30-03-2005, 05:46 PM
Hey Bill - I don't want you to start jumping about and recognising this event. That's not what I'm on about. Like I said, you'd want something well promoted, well run and well financed with a level of prestige for your big event.

Matt seems (obviously) to be provocative in his references to the "officialness" of the event but it is hard to get steamed up about it if there isn't an alternative, social or serious, on the calendar. It would be great to see people extend some credit to someone willing to run an event, even if you need to temper that by telling them to pull their head in when they have a dig at you. :D


The situtaion is like chalk and cheese. Those events were officially sanctioned ACF events for Australian titles, not some attempt by someone to just name their event the Australian XXXX Championship and hope for the best.


However one consideration of holding a NSW ttile event is to do so in a place where you would have the greatest number of potential participants.

I think the second quote there was the reason I "Had a Go." Let's apply similar criteria to Australian Title events and
run them where you would have the greatest number of potential participants


True but I suggested the timing of 7pm at night. In fact the event seems to be tacked on as an after thought to the main tournament.

It wouldn't suit me (or mine) who is an early to bed child :eek: However there were hordes of kids at the Doeberl Lightning.

Like I said, I think the prestige of the event is the big thing. If it is a title worth winning it won't matter where or when, people will go. If it is transfer "in the raw" with all the fun, bodgy rules the kids muck around with and that kind of atmosphere then it isn't a serious event, it's just a social one and sanctioned or otherwise, who cares?



I guess we have a reasonable number of weekenders (either NSWCA or non NSWCA events) so NSW players can afford to be a little choosey. That's where you guys are very lucky. I was just illustrating how far we ACT-ers will travel if that's what is required. ;)

Bill Gletsos
30-03-2005, 06:32 PM
Hey Bill - I don't want you to start jumping about and recognising this event. That's not what I'm on about. Like I said, you'd want something well promoted, well run and well financed with a level of prestige for your big event.True.

Matt seems (obviously) to be provocative in his references to the "officialness" of the event but it is hard to get steamed up about it if there isn't an alternative, social or serious, on the calendar.My point is he could easily have chosen another name. I see his choice as being deliberately chosen because he knew it would be provocative.

It would be great to see people extend some credit to someone willing to run an event, even if you need to temper that by telling them to pull their head in when they have a dig at you. :DIf he had called his event the "Common Man Transfer Championship" or some such thing them well and good. He chose not to do so.

I think the second quote there was the reason I "Had a Go." Let's apply similar criteria to Australian Title events and

It wouldn't suit me (or mine) who is an early to bed child :eek: However there were hordes of kids at the Doeberl Lightning.The Common Man is hardly equivalent to the Doeberl Cup.
The Doeberl Lightning had the 200+ Doeberl players to attract to it so equating participation in the Doeberl Lighting to a tacked on Transfer event at a weekender that last year attracted 16 players is not in my view valid.

Like I said, I think the prestige of the event is the big thing. If it is a title worth winning it won't matter where or when, people will go. If it is transfer "in the raw" with all the fun, bodgy rules the kids muck around with and that kind of atmosphere then it isn't a serious event, it's just a social one and sanctioned or otherwise, who cares?Thats fine but let him pick a name that could be misconstrued as a recognised title.

That's where you guys are very lucky. I was just illustrating how far we ACT-ers will travel if that's what is required. ;)Mind you a number of NSW players do normally travel to the ACT for the ANU Open, Vikings weekender and of course the Doeberl Cup. ;)

antichrist
30-03-2005, 06:38 PM
Of those 16 players were there any over 2000 rating? If not if was me would not run again.

Libby
30-03-2005, 07:08 PM
The Common Man is hardly equivalent to the Doeberl Cup.
The Doeberl Lightning had the 200+ Doeberl players to attract to it so equating participation in the Doeberl Lighting to a tacked on Transfer event at a weekender that last year attracted 16 players is not in my view valid.


Sigh. No, it's not. I was just saying that kids can play after 7pm if they really want to. That is, if the event has the prestige, prizemoney etc etc etc to give it validity.

It's not ideal. Wouldn't view Wollongong as ideal and I wouldn't view a 16 person tournament as ideal. I just wouldn't say that you can't ever hold such events in regional centres which aren't exactly the back-of-beyond. And that events run by a senior association couldn't be run as evening events. My child is no night owl and the ACTCA are running a North vs South teams event and an Adults vs Kids teams event at Belconnen Chess Club on Friday evenings starting at 7.30pm. It's not my preference but kids who play seriously play in the evenings all the time.

Bill Gletsos
30-03-2005, 07:12 PM
Of those 16 players were there any over 2000 rating? If not if was me would not run again.Actually the first round had 14 players including Matt who was the DOP and only Gareth Charles rated over 2000. There were 3 late starters who joined prior to round 2 (they all received half point byes for round 1) including Bolens so Matt dropped out leaving 16 players for rounds 2-7.
So it ended up with 2 players over 2000.

Bill Gletsos
30-03-2005, 07:15 PM
Sigh. No, it's not. I was just saying that kids can play after 7pm if they really want to. That is, if the event has the prestige, prizemoney etc etc etc to give it validity.Yes they can but surely they would already need to be in Wollongong as I doubt any juniors would just go down for the transfer at 7pm.


It's not ideal. Wouldn't view Wollongong as ideal and I wouldn't view a 16 person tournament as ideal. I just wouldn't say that you can't ever hold such events in regional centres which aren't exactly the back-of-beyond. And that events run by a senior association couldn't be run as evening events. My child is no night owl and the ACTCA are running a North vs South teams event and an Adults vs Kids teams event at Belconnen Chess Club on Friday evenings starting at 7.30pm. It's not my preference but kids who play seriously play in the evenings all the time.Thats true, but we are we not saying Transfer is a fun thing. As such holding it during daylight hours is surely preferable to in an evening.

Recherché
31-03-2005, 01:18 AM
Anyway, we run a very successful fun transfer event in the ACT with ACTJCL. This year we've incorporated it into our "official" calendar as our end of year event. We allow adults to play in the event and have had a lot of success getting Dads to play with kids. Even if the Dads spend half the afternoon looking confused.

What about the Mums?

Libby
31-03-2005, 07:14 AM
What about the Mums?

I'm far too busy organising :lol:

We have managed 1 mum in the past I think. In terms of success, it's been great getting Dads to play. And some Grandads, Uncles, Big Brothers & even Godfathers (without the horse head).

We have also had a smattering of senior players, serious transfer exponents from our older junior community, kids playing with their coach etc.

We have had things like trophies in rating groups, then also fun prizes for the best father/son, mother/daughter, biggest age difference in a team, youngest team, sibling team etc etc.

At this stage, it runs strictly as a fun event with a handful of serious types at the top so we're not anticipating a big prestigious title developing. However, there will be those who want to win it. I think we do have one regular BB poster whose team was seeded 1st in our first event but found the young whipper-snappers pretty tough going :)

Ian Rout
31-03-2005, 10:37 AM
The reason I'm not interested in transfer is that I still have plenty of room for improvement in "normal" chess so I'd rather work on that, and on a similar line of argument I think it would be more useful for chess administrators to concentrate on chess. If somebody is going to regulate transfer and award titles why isn't there a separate body, in the same way that correspondence chess has its own governing body. CC is at least played by recognisable chess rules. Of course a transfer association could affilite with and/or work with ACF/NSWCA, like CCLA.

At the moment we have NSWCA refusing to recognise bodgy titles in NSW, which is fair enough, but also not organising its own championship - a bit like Channel Nine buying the rights to the cricket and Wimbledon when they coincide, just to stop anyone else having them.

Of course Matthew is being a bit naughty implying that there is any significant chance of NSWCA recognising his title (and what happens if somebody else holds a "NSW Transfer Championship" with their tournament - we could end up with more NSW transfer champions than world chess champions).