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shaun
29-03-2005, 04:44 PM
Feel free to suggest improvements to next years Doeberl Cup. While there is no guarantee that all proposals will be seriously considered, it is still helpful when that ideas do get proposed. And of course "If you don't ask, you don't get"

I'll get the ball rolling with 2 suggestions made to me at the tournament

1) Start Rds 4 and 6 later (eg 3:30pm rather than 3pm)

2) Have a seniors tournament for over 55's or over 60's

Garvinator
29-03-2005, 05:02 PM
Hello Shaun,

Did you have problems with a 3pm start for rounds 4 and 6?
The Brisbane Open had a 10am and 3pm round start and it worked well. All games were over by 2:30pm at the extreme latest, I think only one round went into the 2pm to 2:30pm time frame.

I think I have said this before, but I think having 8 dgt boards transmitted live would be a great addition to the tournament. I see the question coming, how to pay to get Gary Bekker or myself to the tournament? would an extra $5 on the entry fee be such an imposition?

JGB
29-03-2005, 05:06 PM
2) Have a seniors tournament for over 55's or over 60's

Then why not have a junior tournament as well? There seem to be more children playing than seniors. Then you could just have Open, Senior and Junior divisons. Or is the minor mainly for Juniors anyway?

shaun
29-03-2005, 05:10 PM
Hello Shaun,

Did you have problems with a 3pm start for rounds 4 and 6?
The Brisbane Open had a 10am and 3pm round start and it worked well. All games were over by 2:30pm at the extreme latest, I think only one round went into the 2pm to 2:30pm time frame.

Even when games finished at 2:30 (which they did), the time it took to check the computer generated draw meant that afternoon pairings were not posted until 2:45 at the earliest, leaving very little time for preperation.



I think I have said this before, but I think having 8 dgt boards transmitted live would be a great addition to the tournament. Looking good.

I see the question coming, how to pay to get Gary Bekker looking better
or myself but you went that one step too far
to the tournament? would an extra $5 on the entry fee be such an imposition? No answer for you!

Garvinator
29-03-2005, 05:16 PM
but you went that one step too far. No answer for you!
in what way did i go one step too far?

Libby
29-03-2005, 07:09 PM
I think I have said this before, but I think having 8 dgt boards transmitted live would be a great addition to the tournament. I see the question coming, how to pay to get Gary Bekker or myself to the tournament? would an extra $5 on the entry fee be such an imposition?

I think I've wondered before why we would only want two people in Australia who know how to do this?

I know you hate to be reminded, but a third person who could just "boot it up" in the mornings could have seen 16 live games transmitted from Mt Buller for the juniors each day. Again, I don't know everything involved but chess does attract a number of technically-savvy people who (I would have thought) could be shown what to do? And If something drastic goes wrong, it's not like the games can no longer be played and the players get inconvenienced. Just the audience miss out. Not quite like someone unplugging SP mid-event Shaun ;)

I think live transmission at Doeberl is an excellent idea. But it might be better (even) to have a process to train a number of people to use the technology. :wall:

shaun
29-03-2005, 07:12 PM
Then why not have a junior tournament as well? There seem to be more children playing than seniors. Then you could just have Open, Senior and Junior divisons. Or is the minor mainly for Juniors anyway?

The case put to me for the Senior event was that having a seperate event would encourage older players who don't enjoy playing a succesion of juniors. Personally I am not convinced of the idea, not because I do not think it is without merit, but because the senior events currently organised get a very poor turnout. And even it it was held, just taking players from the existing events and putting them into a new event with extra prizes actually loses money overall.

Garvinator
29-03-2005, 07:20 PM
I think I've wondered before why we would only want two people in Australia who know how to do this?

I know you hate to be reminded, but a third person who could just "boot it up" in the mornings could have seen 16 live games transmitted from Mt Buller for the juniors each day. Again, I don't know everything involved but chess does attract a number of technically-savvy people who (I would have thought) could be shown what to do? And If something drastic goes wrong, it's not like the games can no longer be played and the players get inconvenienced. Just the audience miss out. Not quite like someone unplugging SP mid-event Shaun ;)

I think live transmission at Doeberl is an excellent idea. But it might be better (even) to have a process to train a number of people to use the technology. :wall:
i have mentioned this before and ill mention it again. It takes alot of cables to be connected correctly to transmit eight boards. Gary Bekker has the cabling required and I am in the process of getting the same cabling and connections.

Yes, other people can learn, that is not a problem, but the ppl who do know have to be asked to 'do the first transmission'. I keep saying it is more complicated that just turning on a switch or boot it up.

Cant teach if not invited and my impression from Shaun's response will be that I wont be invited next year.

If any other organisers ie Adelaide, want my services, please tell me.

arosar
29-03-2005, 07:30 PM
in what way did i go one step too far?

gray, maaate, you remind me of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Something about modesty. :lol:

I have suggestions:

(1) more jugs of water!
(2) ask the club bistro to open longer
(3) create a 5 metre border around the playing area; the chatter can be disturbing to many players
(4) make the premiere a 5-day norm qualification event. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me particularly since it's a strong event.
(5) the blitz starts too bloody late. Make it 5PM or 6PM. Then I can still go out and get my beauty sleep

Actually, I want to share some personal improvements: never travel with clingy companions who cant' go anywhere without me; never travel with whingers; and am definitely staying next door next year. Friggin walking around at night is too dangerous, what with those yobbos in Canberra. Me mates were saying, there's too many bloody rednecks down there. And they come out at night.

AR

EDIT: I meant "blitz", not rapid.

Libby
29-03-2005, 07:34 PM
Yes, other people can learn, that is not a problem, but the ppl who do know have to be asked to 'do the first transmission'. I keep saying it is more complicated that just turning on a switch or boot it up.

And that's fine, but that's why we should be teaching people (particularly those running our "big" weekenders pretty regularly) how to do it all.

And the Mt Buller example would have had all the cabling in place surely? Once the cabling is in place, why couldn't another take on "turning it on?"

A simple "troubleshooter's cheat sheet" will usually allow most half-competent people to handle technology until a larger, unusual problem comes along. Then you ring the help desk!

Alan Shore
29-03-2005, 07:42 PM
I thought the tournament was very well managed.. please keep the same number of rounds and same times for everything, with possibly starting round 2 a little earlier.

More to the point, we really really really need a transfer tournament, perhaps on the Sunday night. :)

Edit: With the real-deal rules plonk-mate.. anything else is for patzers!

P.S. Amiel, what do you mean 'more water'? There was that massive cooler on the side of the room, I drank a huge amount of water throughout all my games! I do however agree with the bar being open for longer ;)

JGB
29-03-2005, 07:45 PM
! I do however agree with the bar being open for longer ;)

You dont need to tell me that! ;)

jenni
29-03-2005, 07:51 PM
P.S. Amiel, what do you mean 'more water'? There was that massive cooler on the side of the room, I drank a huge amount of water throughout all my games! I do however agree with the bar being open for longer ;)

He might not have worked out where the water was. :) Shannon came racing over to me during one of her games and asked me to get her some water, I told her to get it herself and she said the jugs were all empty. I said what about the big metal cooler. Shannon Oh!! I thought that was an urn ....

arosar
29-03-2005, 07:57 PM
I thought that was an urn ....

That's what I thought too!!!

AR

Garvinator
29-03-2005, 07:58 PM
You dont need to tell me that! ;)
yes, some of us are aware of what you would give up to go to the bar :P

jenni
29-03-2005, 08:00 PM
That's what I thought too!!!

AR

I have to admit it is not intuitively obvious - maybe a sign next year.....

Garvinator
29-03-2005, 08:07 PM
I have to admit it is not intuitively obvious - maybe a sign next year.....
would ppl read the sign ;) :doh:

Libby
29-03-2005, 08:19 PM
:hmm: They are chessplayers ...

Ian Rout
29-03-2005, 09:16 PM
The case put to me for the Senior event was that having a seperate event would encourage older players who don't enjoy playing a succesion of juniors. Personally I am not convinced of the idea, not because I do not think it is without merit, but because the senior events currently organised get a very poor turnout.
I suspect that the same people would come up with some other excuse, such as that they don't like playing a succession of geriatrics.

Another idea that got a brief run a while back was a separate U/1200 event. This was generally not supported (rightly so, I would suggest).

However if there is an itch to have another section one option might be to have a Maiden (for want of a better name) for people who have never won a prize of any sort in any weekender, with low entry fee, low (or no) prize, possibly faster time limit and maybe five rounds, for people who would like to be involved but don't want to pay $80 for an event where they have no hope of winning anything and even find rabbits fearsome. This would include beginners and accompanying parents/siblings of players. Eligibility would largely be an honour system but if there were no significant prizes this need not be a problem.

Don_Harrison
29-03-2005, 09:26 PM
However if there is an itch to have another section one option might be to have a Maiden (for want of a better name) for people who have never won a prize of any sort ......for people who would like to be involved but don't want to pay $80 for an event where they have no hope of winning anything and even find rabbits fearsome.

The NZ Test Cricket team perhaps?

Denis_Jessop
29-03-2005, 09:37 PM
I would not see having a Seniors event for those who don't like playing juniors as a legitimate reason for such an event. I hope that was only a joke. There could be an argument for a seniors event with perhaps a reduced number of rounds as I think the only real reason for such an event is that older players may find the 7 rounds at 90/30 rather tiring and thus be disadvantaged vis-a-vis the younger players. In that case 55 is too young a starting point. But how many more players could we expect to see if there were a Seniors event? Probably not many.

DJ

Kaitlin
29-03-2005, 10:27 PM
However if there is an itch to have another section one option might be to have a Maiden (for want of a better name) for people who have never won a prize of any sort in any weekender, with low entry fee, low (or no) prize, possibly faster time limit and maybe five rounds, for people who would like to be involved but don't want to pay $80 for an event where they have no hope of winning anything and even find rabbits fearsome. This would include beginners and accompanying parents/siblings of players. Eligibility would largely be an honour system but if there were no significant prizes this need not be a problem.

That sounds like a kewl thing :classic:

1min_grandmaster
29-03-2005, 11:38 PM
Shaun,

1) Keep rounds 4 and 6 at the same time at 3pm. If you start round 4 late, then the lightning will start even later, which I'm sure you will agree is undesirable.

2) I agree with most of the comments regarding the unlikely success of a seniors tournament.

My suggestions:

1) Keep almost everything the same. The Doeberl with its current format is a proven success.

2) The Premier section was too cramped. For round 1, fair enough, since you dont really know how many players are going to be in that division yet, but after that, I dont understand why the tables (other than top 3 boards) were all stuck together. There was sufficient room to space out many of the other tables.

3) Personally, I would love to see the Premier become a 9 round event. And I would be willing to play 3 games in a day to see it happen, and travel back home on Monday night, but I also understand the arguments against this. There seems to be a lot of talk about this idea. Consider running a fair survey in next year's Doeberl asking if people would play in a 9 round event with norm possibilities in preparation for Doeberl 2007!

Keep up the good work, and congratulations to you and the rest of the team.

shaun
30-03-2005, 06:38 AM
Shaun,

1) Keep rounds 4 and 6 at the same time at 3pm. If you start round 4 late, then the lightning will start even later, which I'm sure you will agree is undesirable.

The alternative is to start Rds 3 and 5 earlier (eg 9:30) but I think that would also be unpopular



2) I agree with most of the comments regarding the unlikely success of a seniors tournament.

My suggestions:

1) Keep almost everything the same. The Doeberl with its current format is a proven success.

2) The Premier section was too cramped. For round 1, fair enough, since you dont really know how many players are going to be in that division yet, but after that, I dont understand why the tables (other than top 3 boards) were all stuck together. There was sufficient room to space out many of the other tables.

The layout in the Premier is always a problem, and each year we look at trying to fix it, without being able to find a good solution. In some years we have gaps between the tables but that usually results in some boards being pushed out into the main hall. This year we tried the arrangement of long rows, but this made spectating difficult and getting to from the boards (especially at the ends) a chore. We were able to remove some tables when we knew exactly how many were playing, but not enough to make the room completely comfortable. Of course there may be a simple solution to this problem that I just can't see!



3) Personally, I would love to see the Premier become a 9 round event. And I would be willing to play 3 games in a day to see it happen, and travel back home on Monday night, but I also understand the arguments against this. There seems to be a lot of talk about this idea. Consider running a fair survey in next year's Doeberl asking if people would play in a 9 round event with norm possibilities in preparation for Doeberl 2007!

As this has been mentioned on a number of occasions here are some of my thoughts (which have been discussed with the committee).
My idea for a 9 rounds schedule would involve starting the Premier a day early (Thursday) and having 2 rounds on the Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, with the single round on the Monday (ie 2,2,2,2,1). The schedules for all the tournaments wouldn't change except the players in the Premier having to turn up a day early. We would allow players to take half point byes on the first day if they still wished to play but couldn't make Thursday and didn't mind missing out on norms.
The major problem at this stage is that we don't have enough overseas players to allow players to score norms. While this year there was the strength (eg Rogers and Wohl both had 2600+ performances) there were not enough foreign players. Of course if we made it a norm tournament then the foreign players (from NZ, Phillipines, Indonesia etc) may be encouraged to come.
The other drawback is that we would probably have to tighten up the entry to the Premier a little further to reduce the "tail" and improve players chances of playing the required 3 IM's or 2 GM's.
However this is an idea under serious consideration.



Keep up the good work, and congratulations to you and the rest of the team.
Thanks.

Ian Rout
30-03-2005, 09:56 AM
I'm not fundamentally for or against nine rounds, but if the reasoning is norms then how feasible is it to get a norm in a nine-round Open (well half-open)?

shaun
30-03-2005, 10:15 AM
I'm not fundamentally for or against nine rounds, but if the reasoning is norms then how feasible is it to get a norm in a nine-round Open (well half-open)?
In Europe, not so hard. In Australia, almost impossible. I am pretty sure that no norms were achieved in the 2004 and 2000 Australian Opens, even with the large number of overseas players playing (and those events did not even have the 3 federation rule).
The major problem before the event starts is having enough foreign players as you require at least a third of the field to be from a different federation, and you have to play opponets from 3 different federations (including your own). Even if you managed to attract enough OS players to improve the chances of that condition being fullfiled (a minimum of 20% OS players I guess), then of course the vagaries of the Swiss draw may work against you.
So while I'm not saying it can't be done, the difficulty in doing it is a reflection of Australia's geographical isolation from the rest of the chess world.

antichrist
30-03-2005, 10:27 AM
In Europe, not so hard. In Australia, almost impossible. I am pretty sure that no norms were achieved in the 2004 and 2000 Australian Opens, even with the large number of overseas players playing.
The major problem before the event starts is having enough foreign players as you require at least a third of the field to be from a different federation, and you have to play opponets from 3 different federations (including your own). Even if you managed to attract enough OS players to improve the chances of that condition being fullfiled (a minimum of 20% OS players I guess), then of course the vagaries of the Swiss draw may work against you.
So while I'm not saying it can't be done, the difficulty in doing it is a reflection of Australia's geographical isolation from the rest of the chess world.

Now is the first time I understand the system. If OZ players are serious we should sponser sufficient o/s players for e.g., GM's, sorry to say but from poor 3rd world countries so they may appreciate, and keep them them here for about 6 months so everyone who is interested can get sufficent games against them to earn their FIDE rating, or for at least so the top players to achieve their norms.

We need one generous sponcer or a large campaign OZ wide, who is interested?

This project would even entice me to seriously study chess for a year in preparation. Nothing else would!

pax
30-03-2005, 01:27 PM
I second the recommendation for live coverage.

The expense of getting someone in to do it (DGT coverage) should be a once off. It would make sense for someone in Canberra to learn how to do it, and for the necessary cables to be purchased (perhaps by the ACF).

Also, sorry to say it Gray, but Bekker would be a better choice (from the organisers perspective), as he is also an IA an could join the arbiting team.

Garvinator
30-03-2005, 03:19 PM
These two quotes by Shaun at 5:10pm, then my reply was made at 5:16pm.

I still would like a reply from Shaun on the question I asked and also why dont I get an answer about the $5 extra fee?


but you went that one step too far


No answer for you!


in what way did i go one step too far?

Garvinator
30-03-2005, 03:21 PM
Also, sorry to say it Gray, but Bekker would be a better choice (from the organisers perspective), as he is also an IA an could join the arbiting team.
isnt part of the task to be getting MORE people involved, not less?

Seems to be a general trend I have again noticed in australian chess. Everyone talks about getting more people involved, until the organiser is personally affected and then they go with what or who they know and go against getting more and new people involved.

arosar
30-03-2005, 04:12 PM
isnt part of the task to be getting MORE people involved, not less?

Seems to be a general trend I have again noticed in australian chess. Everyone talks about getting more people involved, until the organiser is personally affected and then they go with what or who they know and go against getting more and new people involved.

gray....relax mate. Now you're acting like a drama queen. They're not going against getting more and new people involved. Just going with the guy with the proven track record.

Personally, I can't see what so bloody hard about it (DGT transmission). Gimme any electronic gadget and I'll break it apart and put it back together again with my eyes closed. Hec, even them sheilas could do it. So why you make it out like it's friggin brain surgery that only two drongos in the land know about, I have no idea!

AR

arosar
30-03-2005, 04:14 PM
I still would like a reply from Shaun on the question I asked and also why dont I get an answer about the $5 extra fee?

For your sake gray, I hope and pray Mr Press won't give you an answer.

Just let it pass mate.

AR

pax
30-03-2005, 04:42 PM
isnt part of the task to be getting MORE people involved, not less?

Seems to be a general trend I have again noticed in australian chess. Everyone talks about getting more people involved, until the organiser is personally affected and then they go with what or who they know and go against getting more and new people involved.

When involving more people involves flying people in at significant expense, of course you minimise the extra people. It's called running a tournament on a tight budget.

Garvinator
30-03-2005, 05:00 PM
When involving more people involves flying people in at significant expense, of course you minimise the extra people. It's called running a tournament on a tight budget.
how is less than $1 per person a significant expense?

Libby
30-03-2005, 05:54 PM
how is less than $1 per person a significant expense?

How is it more cost-effective than someone in each state having the capability to set it up for their major events locally? Maybe even that person teaching another?

Sorry Garvin, you're trying to make it sound like rocket science. It's hard to program the VCR the first time (and I'm still not that flash when it comes down to it ;) ) but if it's really so difficult then the best service you could do for Australian chess would be to write "DGT Boards for DUMMIES" so some of us "dummies" could manage it.

After all, wouldn't you have only set it up ONCE yourself in Mt Buller (or twice counting the schools) and then done whatever necessary each day? That's not a huge mine of experience to have developed the necessary expertise.

A monopoly on the game, the administration, or the functioning of these boards does no-one any good. In the end, don't we just want regular live transmissions of big Aussie events without that being a drain on your tournament resources?

ursogr8
30-03-2005, 06:05 PM
<snip>

A monopoly on the game, the administration, or the functioning of these boards does no-one any good. <snip>

Before this (above) becomes an urban myth..........I think last time around this loop we found that

GB
gg''
Phillip O'Connor
Firegoat (or one of his mates)

were 4 that can install and run.

Hardly a monopoly.

Libby
30-03-2005, 06:12 PM
Before this (above) becomes an urban myth..........I think last time around this loop we found that

GB
gg''
Phillip O'Connor
Firegoat (or one of his mates)

were 4 that can install and run.

Hardly a monopoly.

Would have been exciting to generate my own urban myth ;) Excuse me for thinking it sounds like all the wisdom is held close to a special few - if not quite a monopoly.

Is that because -

a) it really is so very, very difficult
b) nobody wants to learn
c) nobody has the time/inclination to pass on the information
d) or what?

Because the benefits seem pretty obvious. Maybe someone can post the drawbacks or issues for me so I can stop being a pest? :confused:

Garvinator
30-03-2005, 06:23 PM
Sorry Garvin, you're trying to make it sound like rocket science.
rocket science is over rated ;)


After all, wouldn't you have only set it up ONCE yourself in Mt Buller (or twice counting the schools) and then done whatever necessary each day? That's not a huge mine of experience to have developed the necessary expertise.
actually my learning experience was playing around with the software program(alot of hours), ringing Gary Bekker about software issues(quite a few calls), Gary showing me how to set up the cabling and software twice (schools and open).

It would require one of the experienced people there to set up and operate the equipment the first time.


A monopoly on the game, the administration, or the functioning of these boards does no-one any good. In the end, don't we just want regular live transmissions of big Aussie events without that being a drain on your tournament resources? important point, i dont have an answer.

Libby, I dont think i can answer your questions or points without showing you in person what is involved. That is all i can say. I have repeated myself to you about three times now. Not sure what i can say anymore.

I am trying to think of a top level tournament that both of us would be likely to be at so i can show you by setting up eight boards. Suggestions?

NSW Open isnt a possibility I dont think as the QLD Champs might be played over that weekend????

Libby
30-03-2005, 06:57 PM
Libby, I dont think i can answer your questions or points without showing you in person what is involved. That is all i can say. I have repeated myself to you about three times now. Not sure what i can say anymore.

I am trying to think of a top level tournament that both of us would be likely to be at so i can show you by setting up eight boards. Suggestions?

NSW Open isnt a possibility I dont think as the QLD Champs might be played over that weekend????

I'll let you know Garvin!

I'm sure I am falsely judging you. I was never good in the workplace with people who set out to teach me something and opened with their judgement on how immensely difficult the task was to master.

In my experience, a person who has built a body of knowledge is capable of identifying the main steps required for something to function in it's simplest form; then identify the most common "mistakes" or issues that arise and give the uninitiated the "cheat notes" to combat them; and finally be on the end of the line (either the phone line or just across the room by the power plug) in the event something more drastic comes along.

Familiarity breeds contempt. I was once in awe of Swiss Perfect. Now I can cope with any of the multitude of abnormalities children's events throw at you - I sat in the wrong seat, I played the wrong colours, I decided to go home and not tell you, I got left out of the draw, I don't know my rating, I got the score wrong in the first round, I tripped over the plug, my whole PC died etc etc. All this, if we're really lucky, and serving lunch, applying band-aids, finding a tamagotchi or cleaning up after the occasional "accident."

Am I playing the "parent" card if I just say us mother's are good at multi-skilling and we would rather talk less about it and just do it? With a little expert assistance to kick us along.

And I'm not screaming for the gig myself actually. Would just like to see a resource well used.

Recherché
30-03-2005, 07:01 PM
1) Start Rds 4 and 6 later (eg 3:30pm rather than 3pm)

Be aware that this may create problems for those relying on the ACT bus system to get back home or to their accommodation (such as myself at Doeberl this year).

The buses up there in canberra finish pretty early, and the only alternatives are taxis and the kindness of lift-givers.


I think I have said this before, but I think having 8 dgt boards transmitted live would be a great addition to the tournament. I see the question coming, how to pay to get Gary Bekker or myself to the tournament? would an extra $5 on the entry fee be such an imposition?

I didn't see that question coming. In fact I think paying someone to come and run that is a downright silly idea. It's not that hard, even if it isn't simple. As others have said, the more people that can do it (and have the necessary equipment and cabling), the better.

Instead of offering to fly around and run broadcasting for events, why don't you write a guide to help people (with a reasonable level of general technical knowledge) get things up and running quickly and smoothly, avoiding the major pitfalls you may have become aware of through your own experiences?


(1) more jugs of water!

This one would seem to suggest:

* Label the water urn much more effectively. In fact, just label it full stop. I only found it after I happened to notice someone tipping a bucket of ice into it, and even then I was a little leery of what might come flowing out of the tap when I first turned it on.

My only other suggestion would be to have a reasonably professionally designed official website, which would have tournament details (ala the very useful Ian-and-Jan page), as well as results and live games (if broadcast). I realise this is not simple to arrange, especially since hosting is required as well as a volunteer with the skills and inclination to create the site for you.

Garvinator
30-03-2005, 07:09 PM
I didn't see that question coming. In fact I think paying someone to come and run that is a downright silly idea. It's not that hard, even if it isn't simple. As others have said, the more people that can do it (and have the necessary equipment and cabling), the better.

Instead of offering to fly around and run broadcasting for events, why don't you write a guide to help people (with a reasonable level of general technical knowledge) get things up and running quickly and smoothly, avoiding the major pitfalls you may have become aware of through your own experiences?

I am not offering to fly around to every event :eek: just one or two to teach how to do it.

It still requires the teaching person to teach how to set up the equipment the first time and be there to run it during the first tournament of teaching.

That is what Gary did with me for the Australian Schools Teams Championships. He came up to Mt Buller the night before, showed me how to set it all up, including laying all the cabling etc and then stayed for the first round of the tournament to make sure I wasnt having any problems.

Then for the Australian Open, Gary came up the night before again and helped me set up again. I know I could set things up myself next time, that wouldnt be a problem.

This was after I had spent alot of hours of my own time learning how to set up all the equipment and software.

I am not saying it is difficult to learn, just needs the teaching person to be on site to teach all the finicky(technical word ;) ) stuff and problems that arise from time to time.

Recherché
30-03-2005, 07:16 PM
Is that because -

a) it really is so very, very difficult
b) nobody wants to learn
c) nobody has the time/inclination to pass on the information
d) or what?

The main problem is that there are very few DGT boards and associated equipment for broadcasting. Something like one or two per state. Nobody has enough to set up significant broadcasting without calling all the other boards in, and therefore nobody gets a chance to practise setting them up except just before a big event.

They are unfortunately very expensive.

As for needing somebody experienced to set it up first time round - did Gary Bekker help out at either Box Hill or Melbourne when they broadcast games for the Victorian Open and Australian Masters last year?

Recherché
30-03-2005, 07:20 PM
It still requires the teaching person to teach how to set up the equipment the first time and be there to run it during the first tournament of teaching.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy this. First major problem with this argument is "Who taught Gary Bekker?". Secondly, don't these things come with instruction manuals? I bet they do. Thirdly, the major difficulties here seem to be more with getting the network set up than with using the boards per se. As such anyone reasonably proficient with networks should be well on the way to setting up a broadcast.

Maybe if you've decided the first time you'll try to set them up is the night before then it's necessary to have somebody who already has it down pat to be there, but it seems to me with a bit of forward planning that it shouldn't be necessary at all.

Libby
30-03-2005, 07:23 PM
The main problem is that there are very few DGT boards and associated equipment for broadcasting. Something like one or two per state. Nobody has enough to set up significant broadcasting without calling all the other boards in, and therefore nobody gets a chance to practise setting them up except just before a big event.

They are unfortunately very expensive.

Yeah, I get this bit. Like i said, chess seems abit of a technically-savvy activity. I just would have thought many would have a clue on the networking/cabling side (not me I'm afraid :( )

Garvinator
30-03-2005, 07:25 PM
i will not be commenting any more on this issue. I have given my opinion and thoughts and cant add anymore.
Instead of organisers crying out for more help, organisers had someone willing to make their tournament better and it really isnt wanted. So you can stick my help.

It is clear that my opinion is not worth a pinch of salt, therefore I will say no more. I should probably take this attitude with everything to do with Australian chess.

Cya later everyone.

arosar
30-03-2005, 07:28 PM
See, how funny is that...this thread is no longer about the original question.

There's another problem with this idea that we gotta fly gray into Doeberl so he can teach them ignorant natives how to connect the cables. Blokes like Mr Press are techie people. I reckon they'll bloody figure it out in no time at all.

AR

arosar
30-03-2005, 07:38 PM
Instead of organisers crying out for more help, organisers had someone willing to make their tournament better and it really isnt wanted. So you can stick my help.

See mate, it's when you say things like that or express yourself so poorly that people get all upset or perhaps misunderstand you. You get what I'm saying? It's sounds like you make yourself out to be some messiah, bringer of hope to the ignorant natives. It's downright insulting almost. To make matters worse you throw a tantrum. What's with that? Just relax. Come play next year, make friends, and ease people into who you are. You can't just go barging in. You with me?

AR

The_Wise_Man
30-03-2005, 09:01 PM
For people that want to rib and insult their opponents whilst playing and argue about every minor point....

Should be in the spirit of the Bulletin Board....

Wise

antichrist
30-03-2005, 09:06 PM
For people that want to rib and insult their opponents whilst playing and argue about every minor point....

Should be in the spirit of the Bulletin Board....

Wise

You would have a Melbourne Cup field of deserved favourites!

Kerry Stead
30-03-2005, 09:16 PM
i will not be commenting any more on this issue. I have given my opinion and thoughts and cant add anymore.
Instead of organisers crying out for more help, organisers had someone willing to make their tournament better and it really isnt wanted. So you can stick my help.

It is clear that my opinion is not worth a pinch of salt, therefore I will say no more. I should probably take this attitude with everything to do with Australian chess.

Cya later everyone.
Garvin, have you been taking lessons from George??

klyall
30-03-2005, 10:42 PM
I thought the tournament was very well managed.. please keep the same number of rounds and same times for everything, with possibly starting round 2 a little earlier.

More to the point, we really really really need a transfer tournament, perhaps on the Sunday night. :)

Edit: With the real-deal rules plonk-mate.. anything else is for patzers!

P.S. Amiel, what do you mean 'more water'? There was that massive cooler on the side of the room, I drank a huge amount of water throughout all my games! I do however agree with the bar being open for longer ;)

Terrific tournament (problems with re-entering data during the lightning excepted )- exhausted mum by the end of the evening.

I agree with Belthasar - the juniors would love a transfer tournament :clap:

Perhaps I was blocking the view of the "urn" - I seemed to spend lots of my time turning off the tap - it seemed to be leaking. :doh:

The_Wise_Man
30-03-2005, 11:34 PM
:D maybe cheaper entry and more prize money :D

1min_grandmaster
30-03-2005, 11:45 PM
The layout in the Premier is always a problem, and each year we look at trying to fix it, without being able to find a good solution. In some years we have gaps between the tables but that usually results in some boards being pushed out into the main hall. This year we tried the arrangement of long rows, but this made spectating difficult and getting to from the boards (especially at the ends) a chore. We were able to remove some tables when we knew exactly how many were playing, but not enough to make the room completely comfortable. Of course there may be a simple solution to this problem that I just can't see!


Yes, the last few tables were removed after the first day, but the space that thye left behind was simply not used! I would have shifted over the bottom tables, allowing some other tables from the higher aisles to also shift, thus allowing for room between tables.



As this has been mentioned on a number of occasions here are some of my thoughts (which have been discussed with the committee).
My idea for a 9 rounds schedule would involve starting the Premier a day early (Thursday) and having 2 rounds on the Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, with the single round on the Monday (ie 2,2,2,2,1). The schedules for all the tournaments wouldn't change except the players in the Premier having to turn up a day early. We would allow players to take half point byes on the first day if they still wished to play but couldn't make Thursday and didn't mind missing out on norms.
The major problem at this stage is that we don't have enough overseas players to allow players to score norms. While this year there was the strength (eg Rogers and Wohl both had 2600+ performances) there were not enough foreign players. Of course if we made it a norm tournament then the foreign players (from NZ, Phillipines, Indonesia etc) may be encouraged to come.
The other drawback is that we would probably have to tighten up the entry to the Premier a little further to reduce the "tail" and improve players chances of playing the required 3 IM's or 2 GM's.
However this is an idea under serious consideration.


I would also be willing to play on Holy Thursday to get the extra 2 rounds. I also dont mind 3 rounds in one day but I think there is some regulation against that for FIDE rated tournaments (however, it was once done in the NSWCA Australia Day weekender in 2004 and it was still FIDE rated). The idea of allowing for 2 half-pt byes is also nice. However, if more overseas players are required for title norms, and they cannot be obtained, then making it 9 rounds becomes kind of pointless.

Bill Gletsos
31-03-2005, 12:54 AM
I would also be willing to play on Holy Thursday to get the extra 2 rounds. I also dont mind 3 rounds in one day but I think there is some regulation against that for FIDE rated tournaments (however, it was once done in the NSWCA Australia Day weekender in 2004 and it was still FIDE rated).FIDE allow 3 rounds in a day for rating purposes but only allow 2 rounds per day if you want to the event to be eligible for any title norms.

Recherché
31-03-2005, 01:00 AM
Yeah, I get this bit. Like i said, chess seems abit of a technically-savvy activity. I just would have thought many would have a clue on the networking/cabling side (not me I'm afraid :( )

I think there are actually quite a few who do - a bit trickier to find ones that are happy being on the "organiser" side of things rather than playing. Of course, if they were only required to get the DGTs set up they might still be able to play...


Instead of organisers crying out for more help, organisers had someone willing to make their tournament better and it really isnt wanted. So you can stick my help.

At least two people in this thread (myself being one of them) have suggested that writing a how-to document would be very useful to tournament organisers looking to set up game broadcasting in the future. How you translate that into "we don't want your help" is a little puzzling.

Or is "pay for me to fly over and help in person" the only kind of help you were willing to offer? Doesn't it seem self-evident that doing that sort of thing would be a last resort of tournament organisers, rather than the first? It is the most expensive solution, short of hiring some company to manage the IT side of things.


It is clear that my opinion is not worth a pinch of salt, therefore I will say no more. I should probably take this attitude with everything to do with Australian chess.

People disagree with you on one issue (the need to fly people around) and suddenly your opinion is worth nothing? Honestly Garvin, I think you're overreacting here. Nobody here has implied that at all. :)

Recherché
31-03-2005, 01:04 AM
I would also be willing to play on Holy Thursday...

Is that day really called Holy Thursday? It seems like a whole bunch of days have names I had no idea about.

I guess it's a bit like the way other specialized words have fallen into disuse as society has changed. We used to have all sorts of words for animals at different ages, but now they're hardly used, except in the occasional crossword (leveret, anyone?)...

antichrist
31-03-2005, 01:43 AM
Is that day really called Holy Thursday? It seems like a whole bunch of days have names I had no idea about.

I guess it's a bit like the way other specialized words have fallen into disuse as society has changed. We used to have all sorts of words for animals at different ages, but now they're hardly used, except in the occasional crossword (leveret, anyone?)...

I have it, Silver Thursday, after 30 peices of silver...

Rincewind
31-03-2005, 08:14 AM
Is that day really called Holy Thursday? It seems like a whole bunch of days have names I had no idea about.

Yes, I've always known it as Holy Thursday. It might be a catholic tradition though I suspect it is more widespread than that.


I guess it's a bit like the way other specialized words have fallen into disuse as society has changed. We used to have all sorts of words for animals at different ages, but now they're hardly used, except in the occasional crossword (leveret, anyone?)...

I suspect more people have heard of Holy Thursday than 'leveret' which is truly a hare-raising word. ;)

1min_grandmaster
31-03-2005, 09:05 AM
FIDE allow 3 rounds in a day for rating purposes but only allow 2 rounds per day if you want to the event to be eligible for any title norms.

I thought it was something like that. So then all we need are 3 things:

1) A want for the Premier to be a title-norm event
2) Players wanting to play in the event if it also ran on Thursday
3) Players from OS to play

The possibilities of byes on Thursday seems to solve problem 2. The hardest one I think is problem 3.

Ian Rout
31-03-2005, 10:23 AM
Is that day really called Holy Thursday?
It probably is, since I believe the entire week leading up to Sunday is called Holy Week. Thursday is more specifically known as Maundy Thursday.

skip to my lou
31-03-2005, 10:27 AM
Live games should definitely be part of such a large tournament. It's not hard to set up. The problem is getting someone who can be bothered to do it. Probably Shaun can do it very easily, but probably too busy.

jenni
31-03-2005, 10:33 AM
Live games should definitely be part of such a large tournament. It's not hard to set up. The problem is getting someone who can be bothered to do it. Probably Shaun can do it very easily, but probably too busy.

I have a vague memory of someone telling me they didn't have access to telephone lines?

jenni
31-03-2005, 10:38 AM
It probably is, since I believe the entire week leading up to Sunday is called Holy Week. Thursday is more specifically known as Maundy Thursday.

Both names are used widely. "maundy" comes from the Latin name for the day - "Dies Mandatum" i.e. the day of the command. This comes from our Lord saying "A new commandment I give to you, to love one another".

shaun
31-03-2005, 10:39 AM
I have a vague memory of someone telling me they didn't have access to telephone lines?
Yes that is correct.
In fact this year I did negotiate with someone to come to Canberra to be a combined DOP/DGT operator, and at a significantly cheaper rate than Garvin's $1000 a tournament. However once it became clear that the infrastructure at the venue wasn't up to it, live broadcasting became impossible. I even checked for wireless but that was not available either.
Might try and get something up for the ANU Open, again depending on the net access from the venue.

Garvinator
31-03-2005, 10:48 AM
Yes that is correct.
In fact this year I did negotiate with someone to come to Canberra to be a combined DOP/DGT operator, and at a significantly cheaper rate than Garvin's $1000 a tournament.
You are talking about the $5 per player, that was actually a way for you to put into the entry fee, not how much my cost would be. For me it would be $200, just the cost of the airfare. Interestingly you replied to Jenni, but didnt reply to my questions to you.

arosar
31-03-2005, 10:54 AM
You are talking about the $5 per player, that was actually a way for you to put into the entry fee, not how much my cost would be. For me it would be $200, just the cost of the airfare. Interestingly you replied to Jenni, but didnt reply to my questions to you.

Exccuuuuse me daahlings! I'm not paying an extra $5! No way. What with coffee so bloody expensive in Manuka. I mean, we get better coffee in Sydney and it's like less than $3. We're talking about connecting 2 friggin' ends of a cable. How hard is that?

AR

shaun
31-03-2005, 11:09 AM
You are talking about the $5 per player, that was actually a way for you to put into the entry fee, not how much my cost would be. For me it would be $200, just the cost of the airfare. Interestingly you replied to Jenni, but didnt reply to my questions to you.

Garvin, Pax and Rosario pretty much gave a politer answer to your question than I was inclined to give, right down to the coment "For your sake gray, I hope and pray Mr Press won't give you an answer."

Now I know you don't think us rubes down here in south aren't real smart on the counting and the reading of instructions and such, but you original suggestion was "I see the question coming, how to pay to get Gary Bekker or myself to the tournament? would an extra $5 on the entry fee be such an imposition?" Ignoring the phenomanal conceit that that quote contains, it still looks like a suggestion that your services would cost $5 x 200 players or if this new fangled counting machine on my desk is to be believed, $1000. No clarification, no suggestion that the money be used elsewhere. Just a request that we give you a job for $1000 dollars.
And the display of petulance at not being given a job that no one asked you to do in the first place does you no favours. If you want to keep going down that road I suggest you aim a lot higher than the Doeberl Cup and write a letter to the Queen asking to be made the next Governer-General (as you already have the initials for it). Of course telling her to "get stuffed" when she declines your request may have some unfortunate consequences.

Bill Gletsos
31-03-2005, 11:57 AM
Garvin, Pax and Rosario pretty much gave a politer answer to your question than I was inclined to give, right down to the coment "For your sake gray, I hope and pray Mr Press won't give you an answer."Yes sometimes it is wise to not really demand an answer and just sit back and be quiet. Sort of reminds me of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck. Daffy never did learn when to just sit back and be quiet.

Now I know you don't think us rubes down here in south aren't real smart on the counting and the reading of instructions and such, but you original suggestion was "I see the question coming, how to pay to get Gary Bekker or myself to the tournament? would an extra $5 on the entry fee be such an imposition?" Ignoring the phenomanal conceit that that quote contains, it still looks like a suggestion that your services would cost $5 x 200 players or if this new fangled counting machine on my desk is to be believed, $1000. No clarification, no suggestion that the money be used elsewhere. Just a request that we give you a job for $1000 dollars.
And the display of petulance at not being given a job that no one asked you to do in the first place does you no favours. If you want to keep going down that road I suggest you aim a lot higher than the Doeberl Cup and write a letter to the Queen asking to be made the next Governer-General (as you already have the initials for it). Of course telling her to "get stuffed" when she declines your request may have some unfortunate consequences. :lol: :lol:

Garvinator
31-03-2005, 12:29 PM
:lol: :lol:
laugh it up chuckles, you wont be laughing soon.

arosar
31-03-2005, 12:40 PM
Anyyyywaaayyyy . . . . I'm in such a good mood. Me pics got published by the ACF!

Back to the topic, I suppose it doesn't really matter if Doeberl remains much what it is. It's the quirkiness of it that makes it special I suppose: all the trials and tribulations, cords being pulled out, punch-ups, whatever. Everyone should go to this event no matter what.

And we shall make it our chesschat party. Even gray is invited.

AR

Mischa
31-03-2005, 12:42 PM
Maybe I'll make it next time too...if invited.

arosar
31-03-2005, 12:46 PM
Maybe I'll make it next time too...if invited.

I invite you then.

You know, after dinner on Sunday, we all had a biggg group hug. Are you comfy with that?

AR

Mischa
31-03-2005, 01:58 PM
Yeah of course, are you?

Mischa
31-03-2005, 01:59 PM
Anyone going to Adelaide?

Oepty
31-03-2005, 04:09 PM
i have mentioned this before and ill mention it again. It takes alot of cables to be connected correctly to transmit eight boards. Gary Bekker has the cabling required and I am in the process of getting the same cabling and connections.

Yes, other people can learn, that is not a problem, but the ppl who do know have to be asked to 'do the first transmission'. I keep saying it is more complicated that just turning on a switch or boot it up.

Cant teach if not invited and my impression from Shaun's response will be that I wont be invited next year.

If any other organisers ie Adelaide, want my services, please tell me.

Garvin. I think you have little chance, to put it mildly, of being asked to setup for the Adelaide Uni Open, mainly because on of the organisers, Robin Wedding knows how to do it. Please stop this business about only 2 people being able to do it. There are at least five, read it again, FIVE, FIVE, FIVE, FIVE people who know how to setup and run the DGT boards. These people are spread over 3 states. Having seen how it is done I would say that anyone with reasonable computer experience and a good set of instructions and the ability to ring Gary Bekkar could get the job done. They just need to put a couple of hours in beforehand. IT IS NOT VERY DIFFICULT.
Scott

skip to my lou
31-03-2005, 06:17 PM
I have a vague memory of someone telling me they didn't have access to telephone lines?

I was not aware of that. I'm not familiar with the venue so I don't know the structure. Are there lines available from nearby rooms?

adelandre
31-03-2005, 06:37 PM
Anyone going to Adelaide?

I'll be in Adelaide :)

Actually, we've already got Ron Scott's entry (DuffMcKagan), and a number of other BB'ers have expressed interest to me and Alex.

If you guys want a BB hookup dinner i'm sure AUCC or me could organise a decent tab on the bar (the unibar upstairs) to get you guys started. We've got our own buffet dinner we put on Sat. Night as well.

Cheers
Andrew

Mischa
31-03-2005, 08:24 PM
really actually need a lift..maybe. Finances a problem so any ideas re accommodation?

AES
01-04-2005, 12:12 AM
Look at www.unichess.org

We have some great, cheap accommodation options that are very close to the venue.

This Uni Open is going to big-bigger than ben hur, mate.

Denis_Jessop
01-04-2005, 12:48 AM
I have a vague memory of someone telling me they didn't have access to telephone lines?

That's at least one of the problems. This year the Italo Club couldn't even offer us a phone line for an ACF Council meeting where we needed to involve some who were not in Canberra in a phone conference.

DJ

Paul S
01-04-2005, 11:33 AM
I wouldn't change too much with the Doeberl - after all, it is easily Australia's largest senior chess tournament (some NSWJCL events attract more players), so that must mean there are plenty of things that are right with the way things are presently done!

The existing 3 division structure is fine with me (I don't think we need a "Seniors" and/or "Juniors" division/s). The problem with "underrated juniors" (in particular the ACT) is beyond the control of the Doeberl organisers and I recognise that juniors need to enter the mainstream system at some time. Besides, I didn't do too badly with 4.5/7 (coming 13-19 while being seeded 16-17 - although if Bill had rated these underrated Juniors correctly then I probably would have been seeded around 25 ;) ). :D So, keep the existing 3 divisions!

Present location (Italo-Australian club) is great (although the club itself is a bit bland compared to most Sydney Leagues clubs). Manuka is nearby, with heaps of places to choose from to eat, ranging in price/quality from McDonalds to a fancy French restaurant (Christophe's). National Art Gallery is nearby (when my Saturday game finished early I went there and spent an hour or so having a look at some of the paintings).

The timing of the start times of the rounds seems good to me - I wouldn't change anything in this regard. Also the way the prize money is split up seems about right to me - there is quite rightly a weighting towards the top players, but yeat at the same time there is "something in it for everyone" to strive for as far as prize money goes.

Some changes I would like to see for 2006 are:
1) Unless someone competent (eg Brian Jones, Norm Braybrooke etc) will be running the 2006 GP, I would have $10,500 in prizemoney and remove the Doeberl from the 2006 GP (instead of presently having $10,000 in prizemoney and $500 in GP fees).
2) The 20% reduction in prizemoney for players who do not turn up to the presentation seems a bit harsh. I think a figure of $20 reduction (not 20% !) is more appropriate here.

I read in Peter Parr's Monday SMH article that the Doeberl prizemoney has been the same ($10,000) since 1994. Something for the Doeberl committee to look into over the next few months would be to increase the prize fund to $12,000 for next year? I would be quite happy to pay an extra $15 or so in entry fee to pay for this. For an interstate player the extra $15 is a trivial amount compared to their other expenses during the Doeberl (travel, accommodation, eating etc) and I don't think this would affect interstate entries. However, it may affect ACT player participation, which is why I suggest that it be looked into first.

jenni
01-04-2005, 11:40 AM
However, it may affect ACT player participation, which is why I suggest that it be looked into first.

Not sure that it would. It is a pricey tournament for juniors, but I think most parents recognise it is a great opportunity for their kids to play without the expense of travelling interstate, so a few more dollars won't affect them. Not sure about the adults, but many of them travel interstate to play as well.

Recherché
01-04-2005, 11:46 AM
National Art Gallery is nearby (when my Saturday game finished early I went there and spent an hour or so having a look at some of the paintings).

Did you see the landscape of Mt Arapiles in the Australia section on the first floor? Magnificent!



2) The 20% reduction in prizemoney for players who do not turn up to the presentation seems a bit harsh. I think a figure of $20 reduction (not 20% !) is more appropriate here.

I believe there was a "without good cause" qualifier. In that context I believe it's justified. After all, if they'd failed to turn up to one of their games, the player would like have recieved a 100% reduction relative to the prize they ended up with. ;)


For an interstate player the extra $15 is a trivial amount compared to their other expenses during the Doeberl (travel, accommodation, eating etc) and I don't think this would affect interstate entries.

It would have affected my interstate entry, for what it's worth.

Paul S
01-04-2005, 11:48 AM
Not sure that it would. It is a pricey tournament for juniors, but I think most parents recognise it is a great opportunity for their kids to play without the expense of travelling interstate, so a few more dollars won't affect them. Not sure about the adults, but many of them travel interstate to play as well.

That is good news!

A $12,000 prize fund for Doeberl 2006 (with prize money to be spilt in the same percentage terms as is presently the case) sounds good to me! This will make the Doeberl bigger and better!

P.S. If another sponsor can be found to chip in $2000 then entry fees could even remain the same as at present and there would be $12,000 prize money!

shaun
01-04-2005, 11:53 AM
The major difference between the 1994 prize pool and now is that then we had a sponsor providing $4000 and now we do not. In fact we have absorbed a number of cost increases in that time, which means we are running on a pretty lean margin.
One of my suggestions is to increase the entry fee by $10 and use half the money to pay for the increased expenses and the other half to increase the prize pool by $1000. Of course that means entry fees will be around $100 for adults which I fear is pretty steep for some.

Paul S
01-04-2005, 12:02 PM
Did you see the landscape of Mt Arapiles in the Australia section on the first floor? Magnificent!

I only saw the ground floor (and sculpture garden).

Unless it was purchased recently, I almost certainly would have seen that Mt Arapiles painting on one of my previous Canberra visits (circa 2000 I spent a whole day in the National Gallery in which I think I went into every room where paintings were on display to the public). I can't recall that painting off hand, although I think its a painting by either Eugene von Gureard or John Glover.

Paul S
01-04-2005, 12:10 PM
The major difference between the 1994 prize pool and now is that then we had a sponsor providing $4000 and now we do not. In fact we have absorbed a number of cost increases in that time, which means we are running on a pretty lean margin.

Good point - I was unaware of this aspect when I made my post (I presume the sponsor was the late Erich Doeberl?).


One of my suggestions is to increase the entry fee by $10 and use half the money to pay for the increased expenses and the other half to increase the prize pool by $1000. Of course that means entry fees will be around $100 for adults which I fear is pretty steep for some.

I would have no problem with this and would be quite happy to pay an extra $10 in entry fee for these purposes. However (as you infer) it is possible that an extra $10 in entry fees may be "just that little bit too much" for some.

:hmm: Does anyone know of a kind hearted sponsor who would like to donate $4000 to the 2006 Doeberl? ;) :)

Recherché
01-04-2005, 12:15 PM
I think this work by Nicholas Chevalier is the one.

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/platebk/0/0/0/doc/pb000378.shtml

Unfortunately that's a very low quality image, which it makes it hard to be absolutely certain. Doesn't come close to doing the original justice, either.

Paul S
01-04-2005, 12:32 PM
I think this work by Nicholas Chevalier is the one.

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/platebk/0/0/0/doc/pb000378.shtml

Unfortunately that's a very low quality image, which it makes it hard to be absolutely certain. Doesn't come close to doing the original justice, either.

I've seen it a few years ago (and I agree with you that it is a great painting). I will have to make sure I see it during next year's Doeberl!

pax
01-04-2005, 12:38 PM
how is less than $1 per person a significant expense?

Your original suggestion was $5 a person. That *is* significant. Indeed any expense in the hundreds of dollars is significant.

antichrist
02-04-2005, 08:39 AM
Sorry to be me but I would change the venue of the Doeberl to Sydney, bet you would top 300 then. All those Mexicans and bureaucrats (Canberrians) could be billeted for free. You may even get 600 juniors to start off.

firegoat7
02-04-2005, 09:09 AM
Hello,

Opinions on the event,

a) put the under 2000 players in the major or minor.
b) introduce possibly 10 qualifying places from the major for the open and 10 minor qualifying places for the major.
c) Consult the top players by email- ask them if they prefer a 9 round extension.
d) Make dgt coverage a priority.
e) rope of the top section
f) Ensure that an ACF meeting is held at the event.
g) Release a book (like you did in the past) every year (much easier with DGTs).
h) Ditch the current gp series, go for a network with the premium top ten Australian events- (should be easy to get an air ticket to Linares sponsored as first prize).
i) If possible,have a simul running outside on all days of the event, if possible connect it with your street chess program.
j) Turn the event into an annual Australian Chess festivel and lobby for government/private sponsorship. IMO Doeberl is clearly capable of taking the step from being Australia's premium weekender to an International style festival. If this is possible (maybe it is maybe its not), then get the Australian Masters held there every year straight after the event (Make sure you invite Levi, cause the guy is a legend who deserves some kudos).

In regards to the DGT controversy,

GG mate,
In a perfect world you would be paid, but organisers realistically cannot afford to pay you any real fee (although DC always gets something out of CV).
However,I do believe that it is in the best interest of organisers to billet people like GG so that some appreciation is shown for anyone who takes the time to share knowledge.

That said, The DGT technology is not difficult- it is like most computer related stuff, slightly frustrating to a novice.

I do believe that Libbys idea of a run through sheet is an excellent idea with a support number from an expert like Becker for any technical problems.

Finally, I think GG has hit upon one point that a lot of people may have missed. Most people do not have the time or interest to read a manual on how to run technical equipment. I know that I find my VCR,DVD instruction manuals boring as bat shit. My normal experience is to not even look at the manual , I generally just turn the equipment on and start playing with it. There are DGT instruction booklets for the Software and Hardware, those that like that sort of thing may find them useful.

However, personally I enjoy somebody else showing me how to operate something,following up with practise run throughs by myself. Having read this thread I would suggest that GG is saying that its not a bad thing to have knowledge imparted personally. What organisers ought to ensure is that those learning teach others, and that those teaching, share with everyone.

I believe that GG has made an important observation. It seems in Australian Chess that we are only interested in the players not officials. Would it really be a bad idea for somebody from the ACF to say "Hey lets get all the arbiters in Canberra, throw in the ones visiting from Interstate, and show them how to organise a DGT display, swiss perfect, tournament pairing rules, etc etc?", once a year. Doeberl would be the logical choice for such an occassion, although its not the only one.

Who knows what would happen then? Maybe Australian Chess could be organised in a systematic and human orientated direction. Maybe the ACF could really be professional?

Cheers FG7

P.S Known fact-Did you know that almost all associations, clubs and officials have some experience with sponsorship and yet none of that experience is recorded/documented in an accesible way for the Australian chess community?

antichrist
02-04-2005, 10:59 AM
FG7
You don't think it would be too much chess for the master entrants if have already played Doeberl?

How would the qualifying work? Would they have to turn up earlier?

firegoat7
02-04-2005, 11:53 AM
FG7
You don't think it would be too much chess for the master entrants if have already played Doeberl?

AC,
They players pretty much have to take time of work for the event at the moment. At least with an International sponsored festival they might be payed an amount that is appropriate and fair compensation.




How would the qualifying work? Would they have to turn up earlier?

In relation to the Doeberl cup, base it on the previous year.

Cheers Fg7

BFG
02-04-2005, 12:20 PM
P.S Known fact-Did you know that almost all associations, clubs and officials have some experience with sponsorship and yet none of that experience is recorded/documented in an accesible way for the Australian chess community?Libby has provided a link in the past to an ACT Government Website that had information specifically for clubs, associations and volunteers. Sponsorship is one of the items mentioned. It won't have any specific Chess Sponsorship info but will have general information regarding that type of thing. I don't remember where it is on the BB but if you are interested, contact Libby and I'm sure she can point you in the right direction.

Davidflude
02-04-2005, 12:48 PM
Yes digital boards are a great idea.

However I remember from our experience in setting them up at Box Hill that this
was not a trivial matter. We had two very expericed people in Gary Bekker and
Phil O'Connor on the job and it took them some time and patience to get it right. Nevertheless we need more people in Australia who can do it, along with lots of user manuals etc.

arosar
02-04-2005, 08:57 PM
Well, here's an interesting one. Over at the Foxwoods Open, the title winner gets free room in the next edition. Of course, to make it work here you'd need a sponsoring hotel/motel.

AR