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View Full Version : Box Hill Chess Club needs revamp



DarkDevilKin
13-03-2005, 12:04 AM
It seems the good arbiter Gerrit Hartland has some issues. At least that better be the case. I have been spat in the face, people, because an arbiter is too lazy.

I sent an e-mail explaining that I could not play on the recent Friday night - on the Thursday (due to unforseen circumstances). I have never done this before, and all I requested was a postponed game.

Lo and behold, I called Gerrit to see what was going on with my game, and he has no idea what I'm talking about. Now I cannot compete for 1st place honours (which was $500), and a forfeit makes my credibility worsen. I believe a full refund of tournament entry fee, at the very least, is in order. Let us hope that this sort of thing doesn't spread, people.

-Honour the Kin-

Rincewind
13-03-2005, 12:22 AM
I sent an e-mail explaining that I could not play on the recent Friday night - on the Thursday (due to unforseen circumstances). I have never done this before, and all I requested was a postponed game.

Just one comment. E-mail is not the most reliable form of communication. If it meant that much to you a phone call to the DoP before time might have saved some grief.

Trent Parker
13-03-2005, 12:35 AM
Moved from chess Australia to Australian chess. This is not really a news item that is usually in the Chess Australia area...

eclectic
13-03-2005, 12:59 AM
Now I cannot compete for 1st place honours (which was $500), and a forfeit makes my credibility worsen. I believe a full refund of tournament entry fee, at the very least, is in order.

i'm weeping ...

:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

... for all the division B players who are "told" they're not allowed to win first prize at all!

:hand: :hand: :hand:

eclectic

Garvinator
13-03-2005, 01:47 AM
i'm weeping ...

:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

... for all the division B players who are "told" they're not allowed to win first prize at all!

:hand: :hand: :hand:

eclectic
i have wondered about this and I think i have asked before but forgotten the answer if it has been answered.

Can a player play up a division(s) if they want to, or are they forced to play in a particular division?

Alan Shore
13-03-2005, 03:52 AM
I'd obviously like to hear from others about their sides of the story but from what you say it is indeed disappointing, particularly if you were even willing to reschedule.

DarkDevilKin
13-03-2005, 08:48 AM
1. I did not have th DoP's phone number (I had to call a friend to get in contact with the DoP on the Friday night).

2. Why give out an e-mail address if you aren't going to use it?

By the way, I also don't agree that B-division players can't compete for 'A-division' prizes - they should be there for all to win.

Rincewind
13-03-2005, 09:52 AM
1. I did not have th DoP's phone number (I had to call a friend to get in contact with the DoP on the Friday night).

2. Why give out an e-mail address if you aren't going to use it?

I didn't say that Email isn't a extremely useful and convenient form of communication. However, a key part of the communication process is feedback to ensure the message has been received and understood. If I hadn't heard back from the email 24 hours before the schedule start time then it is definitely worth the effort to start follow up with a phone call.

Sending an email off into the ether and expecting that the DoP had received it and rescheduled the game without receiving a confirmation does not seem a wise strategy to me.

firegoat7
13-03-2005, 01:07 PM
It seems the good arbiter Gerrit Hartland has some issues. At least that better be the case. I have been spat in the face, people, because an arbiter is too lazy.

Whilst we do not know the full story, only your version DD, may I suggest some resolution for you.

1) It is difficult to remain calm when we have suffered some sort of injustice, or perceived misjustice. That said, it is important to take one step backwards when dealing with conflict issues. The risk is that if you don't you may box yourself into moral positions, which in hindisght seem spur of the moment and risk alienating yourself or GH from the chess community.


The first thing you need to do is accept that all people are humans, even arbiters. We all understand that both you and GH are reasonable people who normally would get along just fine. However mistakes are made, learn from them then move on.




I sent an e-mail explaining that I could not play on the recent Friday night - on the Thursday (due to unforseen circumstances). I have never done this before, and all I requested was a postponed game.

Lo and behold, I called Gerrit to see what was going on with my game, and he has no idea what I'm talking about. Now I cannot compete for 1st place honours (which was $500), and a forfeit makes my credibility worsen.



Ok. So there are some communication issues. What you probably need to do is to approach the Box Hill committee, to ensure that these problems do not occur in the future.

Now every tournament has a disputes committee. This is your proper channel for addressing tournament disputes. You need to write a letter, detailing your grievances about the incident. This letter should be handed to the committee. If there is no disputes committee, then you need to organise one from the tournament. Speak up and stand up for you rights, so that these sort of incidents don't happen to somebody else in the future.




I believe a full refund of tournament entry fee, at the very least, is in order. Let us hope that this sort of thing doesn't spread, people. Now this unfortunately is not realistic. You have already played a number of games and Box Hill will occur a CV rating fee for those games. Moreover it sets a bad precedent for future withdrawals. While you may have suffered an honest unfortunate incident, not all chess players are known for their moral character. Lets just say some will rort these loopholes if it is made available ( I have witnessed this with my own eyes).

Now I understand that chess is highly competitive and that often we all get highly strung when playing. My only advice is to take a few deep breaths and reflect on what it is you want to achieve. Choose re-conciliation over alienation, you will be better off for it.

cheers Fg7

Bill Gletsos
13-03-2005, 01:34 PM
By the way, I also don't agree that B-division players can't compete for 'A-division' prizes - they should be there for all to win.My understanding is that this is because of the way Box Hill structures its events with permanent acceleration applied to Div A players.
As such under those circumstances it is not fair that Div B players be eligible for the top prizes. If Box Hill ran their events as normal swisses or even normal accelerated swisses then this would not be the case and all players should/would be eligible for the top prizes.

Bill Gletsos
13-03-2005, 01:39 PM
Just one comment. E-mail is not the most reliable form of communication.Exactly. Among other things his ISP's mail server could go down, in which case he may not get the email in time.
Also if the email is important it is often worthwhile in the body of the message to request that the recipient actually acknowledge they have read it. That way if you havent had a response in what you deem is a reasonable amount of time then you need to try another means of communication.

FWIW Gerrit's phone number is listed on the Box Hill web site under committee.

Don_Harrison
13-03-2005, 05:22 PM
Sending an email off into the ether and expecting that the DoP had received it and rescheduled the game without receiving a confirmation
does not seem a wise strategy to me.

Did that in a work context once. Ranted and raved that the despicable dastard sat on his bum and did not bother to respond to reasonable requests. Pity that he died previous day.

klyall
15-03-2005, 08:39 PM
As assistant arbiter for the current tournament at the Box Hill Chess Club, I can assure darkDevilkin that Gerrit Hartland is NOT LAZY! I currently have my "L" plates on, learning all that is involved in being an arbiter. It is an enormous amount of work - particularly when a large number of players is involved. This includes organising the pairings (and people do unexpectedly need to postpone games - which means the draw has to be redone) supervising the games - especially monitoring mobile phone calls during games - which has been amply talked about on other threads, entering the game results and so on.

darkDevilkin might not be aware of the work that Gerrit undertakes for the Whitehorse Junior Chess - in organising and running the Rookies Cup.

In addition, Gerrit is organising the Victorian Junior Chess Championships on behalf of Chess Victoria.

As well as the above, Gerrit is trying to obtain a venue for the Chess Squad at a reasonable price.

Gerrit is doing a terrific job!

Mischa
15-03-2005, 08:40 PM
Go Kerry

Recherché
15-03-2005, 11:28 PM
I think it's clear to anyone who spends much time at the club that Gerrit is by no means lazy, and works very hard for Box Hill and related concerns.

What I'm wondering is:

a) Was the email eventually received?

and

b) If so, and it if is timestamped as having been sent prior to whatever the minimum postponement notification time was under the rules, does it count regardless of whether or not it was read by the arbiter prior to the start of that round of the tournament? If not, why not?

(and if there's no minimum notification time for postponements in the rules I'd suggest adding one, postponements are not uncommon and it's worth having something explicitly defined to point to when disputes arrive over the granting or denial of such postponements)

and

c) Why didn't the player notify the tournament organisers earlier, instead of dashing off an email the day before and hoping for the best?

I can't remember if there are specific rules about minimum notification times, but I do remember that the club makes a very strong and clear point of asking that players who need a postponement notify the club as soon as possible and not at the last minute.

(this one's for you, JN)



As for my personal take on the issue, on two or three occasions I've been forced to miss a round at (too) short notice due to unavoidable circumstances. On each of those occasions I've happily taken my zero point. For at least one of those I was in realistic prize contention (I think I still won the prize anyway, though). Hiccups in my personal arrangements/circumstances are not the responsibility of the arbiters of a chess tournament. I see postponements as a favour rather than an expected occurrance.

Garvinator
15-03-2005, 11:34 PM
As for my personal take on the issue, on two or three occasions I've been forced to miss a round at (too) short notice due to unavoidable circumstances. On each of those occasions I've happily taken my zero point. For at least one of those I was in realistic prize contention (I think I still won the prize anyway, though). Hiccups in my personal arrangements/circumstances are not the responsibility of the arbiters of a chess tournament. I see postponements as a favour rather than an expected occurrance.
why didnt you at least ask for a postponement and explained why you were asking for one? :hmm:

Bill Gletsos
15-03-2005, 11:39 PM
What I'm wondering is:

a) Was the email eventually received?

and

b) If so, and it if is timestamped as having been sent prior to whatever the minimum postponement notification time was under the rules, does it count regardless of whether or not it was read by the arbiter prior to the start of that round of the tournament? If not, why not?The onus is clearly on the player to ensure that the arbiter is aware of his desire for a postponement prior to the start of the round.
A player cannot just fire an email off into the ether and hope for the best.
If the arbiter doesnt get it in time thats the players problem and not the arbiters.

Recherché
16-03-2005, 08:56 AM
why didnt you at least ask for a postponement and explained why you were asking for one? :hmm:

On all the occasions so far I didn't know until the day of the game, so I just rang to let them know I wouldn't be there. I think I may have also played a postponed game once, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


The onus is clearly on the player to ensure that the arbiter is aware of his desire for a postponement prior to the start of the round.
A player cannot just fire an email off into the ether and hope for the best.
If the arbiter doesnt get it in time thats the players problem and not the arbiters.

Obviously it doesn't apply to this specific case, but does the arbiter also have a responsibility to be contactable? What about a situation in which the arbiter did not respond to emails or phone message, always had an answering machine picking up the phone, and so on?

Bill Gletsos
16-03-2005, 10:08 AM
Obviously it doesn't apply to this specific case, but does the arbiter also have a responsibility to be contactable?Obviously he does. However the onus is on the player to ensure the arbiter received the message.

What about a situation in which the arbiter did not respond to emails or phone message, always had an answering machine picking up the phone, and so on?Answering machines are different to email. There can be a reasonable expectation that if you leave a message dirrectly on the arbiters answering machine he will get it where as with email you have no clue if the email even reaches the arbiters isp mail server let alone if its delivered in time.

Even so as said previously it would be reasonable for the player asking for the postponement to request confirmation from the arbiter that he has indeed received it.

Ian Rout
16-03-2005, 10:19 AM
Aren't we turning the arbiter's position into a full-time job here? Of course an arbiter will generally attempt to help out people who can't make it, but players have signed up for a tournament played at a designated time. If a player can have "unforeseen circumstances" which prevent them from playing then an arbiter can equally have such circumstances which keep them from their e-mail or answering machine.

Recherché
16-03-2005, 10:20 AM
It seems that club/tournament rules as stated on the BHCC website actually require phone notification rather than email. Also, apparently the email in question still hasn't turned up.

pax
16-03-2005, 11:52 AM
I'd have thought if you are asking for a postponement with a day (or less) of notice, you are liable to be forfeited anyway (unless there is a specific policy to the contrary). Remember that a postponement inconveniences both the arbiter and your opponent, and there is no guarantee that the arbiter will be able to contact your opponent within the day to inform them.

pax
16-03-2005, 11:56 AM
From the BHCC website it looks as though postponements are strongly discouraged, and are only permitted with the agreement of both players. In this case, your opponent could quite rightly argue that a day or less is insufficient notice, and you would forfeit anyway.

ursogr8
17-03-2005, 07:40 AM
I'd obviously like to hear from others about their sides of the story but from what you say it is indeed disappointing, particularly if you were even willing to reschedule.

BD

The DOPs response can be read by you via this link. (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/e2005/captain.htm)

Also, did you see pax's remarks about re-schedules (posts #22 and 23)?


starter

Alan Shore
17-03-2005, 09:49 AM
BD

The DOPs response can be read by you via this link. (http://www.boxhillchess.org.au/e2005/captain.htm)

Also, did you see pax's remarks about re-schedules (posts #22 and 23)?


starter

Thanks starter.

I suppose all this is unfortunate but perhaps the one thing we can take away is the advice from E.T. to phone home! ;)