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paulb
02-01-2004, 12:09 PM
dear Aussie chessplayers

time for everyone to have a bex and good lie down, i think :D

The new board is essentially my decision. Jeo approached me and George Howard about his proposal to shift the board and a number of other contributions he was willing to make to the ACF site. George Howard asked me to consider the matter and make a decision about it, and I have decided to move the board. So it is an "ACF decision" in the sense that the ACF prez endorsed the ACF webmaster to make the call, which is entirely normal of course.

Bulletin Boards tend to be very excitable places, and different people have very different ideas about what's acceptable and so on. the old ACF board was about as liberal as they come, I think, and it's completely unsurprising that there will be differences of opinion about the management of a new board when it shifts. It'd be good if everyone just chills a bit while we sort things out.

A large part of the early problems with the transfer is due to the fact that I haven't had time to properly communicate with the relevant people about the changes. This is happening now.

In particular, people should note that the old admins (myself and two mystery others) are still admins on this board, and we will be running the show here. We will be controlling the "Australian Chess" topic. Jeo will control the rest of the board.

I should say that Jeo has done an enormous amount of work to help the ACF, and has proposed to do even more. He's a great asset and I know from my dealings with him that he's also a very nice bloke. He combines excellent technical ability with a very energetic approach, which is a rare and wonderful combination. Some of the attacks on him on this board recently were unfortunate, to say the least, I think, and people should consider apologising.

In particular, the fact that he administered the board in his usual fashion on the first day of the transfer - before the old ACF admins were brought fully up to speed on the changeover, and before Jeo and I had fully discussed ACF board policy - is not something he should be criticised for. He was simply behaving as a responsible admin. If you want to criticise someone, criticise me for my tardiness in informing people.

In general, people might want to count to 10 and take a deep breath and a good look around before they fly off the handle about things[/i]

skip to my lou
02-01-2004, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the kind words.

chesslover
02-01-2004, 08:54 PM
Fair enough Paul, and when explained like that who can argue with the decision?

The new BB is very quick and has so much fucntionality

I want to thank you for the work that you had put in to the old ACF BB< that started the whole online chess community here. Thank you and it is very much appreciated. :D :D :D :D

Also on reflection it was not Jeo's fault that he did not knbow of the liberal posting policy in the old ACF BB, and how many things that would not have been allowed in some BB's were let through by you and Kevin.

I was a little bit miffed at the way some of the posts and threads were moderated yesterday, and also had some unkind words to say to Jeo.

On reflection, I think Paul is correct, and I apologise to Jeo for any offense or hurt caused by any of my posts that were perhaps too critical of him yesterday.

Sorry Jeo.

paulb
03-01-2004, 05:39 PM
That's big of you, ChessLover, but I don't think you're the main culprit/worst offender in this case. I'd be interrested whether any of the others are as gracious as you have been.

Cheers - PaulB

ursogr8
04-01-2004, 07:13 AM
That's big of you, ChessLover, but I don't think you're the main culprit/worst offender in this case. I'd be interrested whether any of the others are as gracious as you have been.

Cheers - PaulB

PaulB
You have much goodwill in my account for your substantial work done on the bulletin and the old BB. And I have not been gracious in the movement to this new board. I thought it was best summed up in Barry's scorecard post.
I viewed it as a FAIL on transition strategy (planning and execution), and a FAIL on K's early attitude before he pulled his head in.

kind regards
starter

peanbrain
04-01-2004, 08:25 AM
I don't seee why any of us should be expected to apologise. And PaulB you must admit your lack of communication prior and after the changes contributed to what was a very heated debate.

Agree with starter 100% on this. We had disagreements earlier on - and as proven we were right hence changes was made. End of story. :-$

Bill Gletsos
04-01-2004, 11:40 AM
Paul,
I make no apologies for my reaction.

The moderation policy was heavy handed in the extreme.

Surely if someone was going to offer to host a BB for an exisiting group they would find out how that group was behaving on thier old board.

If he had no idea how the ACF BB posters behaved that surely was a fault on his part for not finding out or on you part for not pointing it out to him.

As it stands Gandalf's latest comments and attitude are a concern.

Gandalf
04-01-2004, 02:10 PM
Bill, I know who you are and don't care. When it comes to this board you are soundly ignorant of our goal. You commented that many of our members (which you have effectively scared off, thanks for nothing) were "juveniles without any life experience".

I say they were more innocent than most of the members on your old board. Now, they were probably inferior players of chess, but we specifically aimed to be a place where novices could learn from and ask questions of their more experienced peers. Their posts have been divinely civilised in content when compared to the sludge we've seen over the past few days.

As for my comments, I maintain that because of our encompassing goal they remain entirely justified. If you (collective) can't adjust your manner to accomodate youths then you really don't belong here. Your position on the old board is incomparable to your position here.

If nothing else, please try to be polite and helpful so youngsters may return and seek help. In this way we can develop a strong and useful community to better develop Australian Chess.

It needs us.

Bill Gletsos
04-01-2004, 03:49 PM
I hope Paul B will immediately restore the old ACF BB as soon as he can.

The debate can then take place on that board if the majority of the old boards members wish to migrate to this board.

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 03:50 PM
How about set up a poll on this board, so we can see some actual figures?

arosar
04-01-2004, 04:24 PM
As for my comments, I maintain that because of our encompassing goal they remain entirely justified.

Here's a simple question for you mate: who asked US to move us here?

Have the old BB restored NOW!!

AR

Bill Gletsos
04-01-2004, 04:26 PM
I am aware of people who simply refuse to post here after the New years day debacle.

Lets restore the old ACF BB and have the debate there.

ursogr8
04-01-2004, 04:42 PM
I hope Paul B will immediately restore the old ACF BB as soon as he can.

The debate can then take place on that board if the majority of the old boards members wish to migrate to this board.

I feel like the flip-flop man.
When the board was first transitioned I felt like astounded and considered a boycott of the new.
Then Kevin showed the power of the improved display by transferring the F_R thread with enhancement. And Bill dragged over the clowns text that was most recent. I was willing to reconsider.
Jeo pulled his head-in and moderation passed to others and I got over it.

Now G***ego-is-my-middle-name's attitude
has me agreeing with Bill to migrate back to the old board. I will hold off for a day or so and see if G**** learns to pull-back.

If G**** thinks that the junior chess community can learn from Bill, Barry, Matt, Kevin, and all other large posters then he is going to need them on his board. There are no others like them in Australia. If they migrate back to the other board then G****misses his objective, and there is no second replacement.

starter

shaun
04-01-2004, 06:23 PM
My concerns about the transition of the ACF BB have been communicated to Paul, along with what I think the problem is. If Paul wants to deflect blame from Jeo by falling on the grenade himself, all well and good. But this thread calls for public comment, so here goes.
Paul B and George Howard have made a bad, ill thought out decision. Seduced by the glitter of technology they accepted an offer that was made without any planning, without any consultation of people who would have been able to help avoid this fiasco.
As for apologising to Jeo, I agree with a number of previous posters in saying "What for?". I made a number of posts on the topic of the change over and Jeo deleted every single one. These posts laid out my opinions on the matter, and I had hoped they would have aided intelligent debate on the issue. Instead no one can read any of them, because Jeo decided to get rid of them all. There was not a single offensive or abusive term in any of them. Not a single "Shit", "****", or "I hope you get cancer". If anything Jeo should be apologising to me for his actions.
As for Jeo's suggestion that most people agree with his actions because they haven't complained, the banning of Matthew Sweeney shows what can happen to those who do complain.
But Jeo is right in saying that it is his board, and that we should follow his rules. Therefore I ask Paul B and the ACF President George Howard to move us to a board where Jeo's rules do not apply.

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 06:30 PM
Not anymore shaun, its ACF board, the ones that Kevin and Paul moderate.

Bill Gletsos
04-01-2004, 06:33 PM
At least until you change your mind again.

Or you discover you cannot legally disolve yourself from the situation.

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 06:33 PM
Also shaun, the reason George would have accepted this is not because of technological "glitter".

Bill Gletsos
04-01-2004, 06:35 PM
But Jeo is right in saying that it is his board, and that we should follow his rules. Therefore I ask Paul B and the ACF President George Howard to move us to a board where Jeo's rules do not apply.
I have already sent an email to Paul B , George and Kevin requesting/demanding the old board be restored.

Lets see how Paul responds

shaun
04-01-2004, 06:43 PM
Not anymore shaun, its ACF board, the ones that Kevin and Paul moderate.

But PaulB and Kevin cannot make my posts you deleted magically reappear, can they. And the above quote doesn't look like an apology to me.

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 06:46 PM
Im sorry I ever thought I could help ACF in any way.

arosar
04-01-2004, 06:48 PM
You're being very arrogant man.

AR

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 06:48 PM
so?

Bill Gletsos
04-01-2004, 06:55 PM
You're being very arrogant man.

AR
Remember I made that observation on day one.
I have seen nothing to make me change my opinion.

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 06:56 PM
And thats how I really feel. I feel sorry that I tried to help ACF, and will make no such attempt in the future.

Anyway my holidays are over now. Some holiday eh. I will be back in a week or so, probably next weekend.

chesslover
04-01-2004, 06:56 PM
cant we all just get along? :)

arosar
04-01-2004, 06:59 PM
And thats how I really feel. I feel sorry that I tried to help ACF, and will make no such attempt in the future.

We know that dude. It's just that this was a major decision that really needed proper consultation and analysis. These were never done. Don't let this discourage your constribution. I mean, how many times do I have to bang it into your head that I, at least, actually like the board, appreciate what you're trying to do; problem is, it ain't just gonna work because CK and us are like fire and water. Geddit man? You seem like an OK bloke. We got nothing against you OK?

AR

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 07:01 PM
No, I dont get it, I said I wouldn't moderate the board, and I didn't, and I still have not.

And if this ordeal has achieved anything, its made me realise that its really useless to try and prop up this game in Australia.

Oh well.

Shi.t happens, life goes on.

shaun
04-01-2004, 07:06 PM
And if this ordeal has achieved anything, its made me realise that its really useless to try and prop up this game in Australia.

Do want to ring every chessplayer in Australia and tell them to give up playing now that you're no longer contributing, or do you want me to do it?


Shi.t happens, life goes on.
Are you going to get banned from your own board?

arosar
04-01-2004, 07:08 PM
And if this ordeal has achieved anything, its made me realise that its really useless to try and prop up this game in Australia.

Oh well.

Shi.t happens, life goes on.

Don't be such a bloody sook! Stop being like that for crying out loud. Take it easy man. Listen, I like techie stuff meself and techie people. And we certainly need people like you. This whole controversy is one about 'culture', mainly, and the lack of adequate consultation/communication.

AR

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 07:10 PM
And if this ordeal has achieved anything, its made me realise that its really useless to try and prop up this game in Australia.

Do want to ring every chessplayer in Australia and tell them to give up playing now that you're no longer contributing, or do you want me to do it?


Shi.t happens, life goes on.
Are you going to get banned from your own board?

Heh, this post has made it realise even more. I dont give a sh.it who stops playing or who starts playing in Australia, I will continue to maintain Chess Kit so that people all around the world can learn from it or contribute to it.

I still have 6 offences to go, Shaun.

chesslover
04-01-2004, 07:13 PM
And if this ordeal has achieved anything, its made me realise that its really useless to try and prop up this game in Australia.

Do want to ring every chessplayer in Australia and tell them to give up playing now that you're no longer contributing, or do you want me to do it?


Shi.t happens, life goes on.
Are you going to get banned from your own board?

If the past is any guide, I would now expect your post to be deleted because it "bags" the admin, and kathick's post deleted for getting around the censor fucntion. And Kevin will be doing this both

Oh the irony of it :D

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 07:14 PM
Well Shit?

ursogr8
04-01-2004, 09:21 PM
Well Shit?

Is this a 1-count against you or your 'dog', Jeo? :rolleyes:

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 09:24 PM
no, its a count against me, but ive got another 8 to go? o_O until gandalf suspends me, then I get another 9 right? -_-

chesslover
04-01-2004, 10:22 PM
no, its a count against me, but ive got another 8 to go? o_O until gandalf suspends me, then I get another 9 right? -_-

No, but you said that you have a 3 offense poli. It is only Matt that has a 10 strike policy :P

SO how do you ban yourself? Can an Admin ban himself? ;)

skip to my lou
04-01-2004, 10:24 PM
Ive suspended myself for a week. Even though this is the ACF forum, I must set an example :P

See you in a week. :D :D

chesslover
04-01-2004, 10:35 PM
Ive suspended myself for a week. Even though this is the ACF forum, I must set an example :P

See you in a week. :D :D

very witty

bye Jeo. see you in a week

who will be the senior admin when you are not here? Gandalf?