PDA

View Full Version : Fisher Random Game - cont'd from old ACF BB



Kevin Bonham
01-01-2004, 06:34 PM
This is a consultation game between a mystery Victorian player with an ACF rating of around 2000 (White) and members of the old ACF BB (and I guess anyone from this board who may wish to join in) (Black), at the rate of a move whenever we feel like it. "starter" is relaying moves. Active players on the ACF BB were myself, Matthew Sweeney and Garvin Gray (ggrayggray).

Thanks to the nifty features of this board I can show everyone that the game started from this position:

nrqknrbb/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/NRQKNRBB w - - 1 1

and has now reached this position:

1r1k1rb1/p2pp2p/1p4p1/8/2pRPP2/6P1/PPP2RBP/6K1 b - - 1 16

Black has intact 0-0-0 rights which would involve moving the K to c8 and R to d8.

The former thread including discussion of why we are even doing this can be seen at http://www.chesskit.com/auschess/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=auschess;action=display;num=10612032 53

According to a variant of a line posted by Garvin on that board it has been proposed that Black now play ...e5 and I have asked for further comments from team members on this move.

Bill Gletsos
01-01-2004, 07:50 PM
I assume h1 is actually empty as it is illegal to have a pawn there.

PHAT
01-01-2004, 09:27 PM
Lost in the transit was my vote for b5. I am still too incenced over the thoughtless vadalism that has been done, that I cannot be bothered giving my longish set of reasons for the move :evil:

skip to my lou
01-01-2004, 09:28 PM
Get over it.

PHAT
01-01-2004, 09:40 PM
Get over it.

One day, yes. But for now, remember this; the old BB was commercial free. Now we have to look at stinking ads for stinking captialist pig products like Yahoo. :evil: I also see that threads are being locked, which is a BAD BAD BAD, VERY BAD start.

Kevin Bonham
01-01-2004, 09:41 PM
Jeo, this is an example of the problem. You deleted a thread before giving as your only reason that it had gone offtopic. Now, in response to a partly off-topic post by Matthew, you have made an entirely offtopic reply. Either you're being inconsistent or you're not explaining yourself very well.

Bill: yes, there is no pawn on h1, will edit it.

chesslover
01-01-2004, 09:48 PM
Get over it.

One day, yes. But for now, remember this; the old BB was commercial free. Now we have to look at stinking ads for stinking captialist pig products like Yahoo. :evil: I also see that threads are being locked, which is a BAD BAD BAD, VERY BAD start.

In teh old ACF BB, in the thousands and thousands of thread, that wereposted, only one thread in my memory was ever locked by the Forum Admin - and that was the one relating to the unwashed urine soaked hands. That too waslocked due to the complaints to the Forum Admin about the grossness of the topic, and the Forum Admin only too action after that. Paul did not initate the locking of threads.

I would think if the old ACF BB is any guide, there will be many threads and posts that will be off topic, that will criticise administrators etc. Do you plan on deleting all these threads or locking these threads as well?

:rolleyes:

skip to my lou
01-01-2004, 09:50 PM
If you are going to post about ME, then expect the post to be deleted. Thats all I can say.

Kevin Bonham
01-01-2004, 10:01 PM
If you are going to post about ME, then expect the post to be deleted. Thats all I can say.

That is absolutely unsatisfactory. You clearly do not have enough experience to moderate this group of posters. I suggest that you write to Paul right now and say that you would prefer not to have the ACF BB crowd transferred to this BB on account of the clashes between their openness and your moderation style.

I am endorsing Bill's call for a return to the old board until I see evidence that you are willing to accept criticism - either that or not moderate the ACF-related sections of the board.

skip to my lou
01-01-2004, 10:03 PM
I accept criticism, if you are going to be reasonable. If you start childish name calling, and start posting utter bullshit, it will be deleted.

Bill Gletsos
01-01-2004, 10:09 PM
No you dont accept criticism at all.]

This is evidenced by your wanton deleting of posts that criticised your moderation style.

Criticsim by Kevin, shaun and others. People with obviously far more experience than yourself.

I support Kevin's call.

You should inform Paul B that you cannot handle the ACF posters and suggest that he switches back to the old ACF BB.

chesslover
01-01-2004, 10:11 PM
I accept criticism, if you are going to be reasonable. If you start childish name calling, and start posting utter [censored], it will be deleted.

how do you define "start posting utter [censored]"which you state that you will delete?

What you may consider utter crap, may be a valid viewpoint for another person to have

PHAT
01-01-2004, 10:12 PM
No you dont accept criticism at all.]

This is evidenced by your wanton deleting of posts that criticised your moderation style.

Criticsim by Kevin, shaun and others. People with obviously far more experience than yourself.

I support Kevin's call.

You should inform Paul B that you cannot handle the ACF posters and suggest that he switches back to the old ACF BB.

Keep your shirt on Bill. Jeo has said he will loosen the reins, so lets just wait a bit longer - I can see some blue sky on the horizon.

Garvinator
01-01-2004, 10:17 PM
this is the usual moderation style used on the old bb, how is this relevant to fischer random games :shock:

chesslover
01-01-2004, 10:32 PM
this is the usual moderation style used on the old bb, how is this relevant to fischer random games :shock:

this is what is called "thread transposition"!! :D

Kevin Bonham
01-01-2004, 10:59 PM
Very wry, chesslover. You make me wish I'd never invented that concept now. :( Anyway there are plenty of other threads to discuss board transition issues, the thread transposition this time was mainly my fault, so please leave this one to us poor fischer-randomites.

Matt, re ...b5, a general principle of same-colour bishop endings is that it is undesirable to put pawns on the same colour squares as your bishop. They tend to restrict your bishop's own mobility as well as being more easily attacked by the opposing bishop. Sometimes there are exceptions to this rule and it may be that we end up playing ...b5 anyway, but when you're feeling more favourably disposed towards this board feel free to explain the reasons. :D

PHAT
01-01-2004, 11:27 PM
We block up the board as if we were going for a draw - our rooks sweeping rows 6,7,8, and our K in the centre, our bishop pretecting a couple of backward pawns.

We provoke/goad Mr 2000+ FRMaster into doing something rash. If he doesn't, he might accept a draw.

Kevin Bonham
02-01-2004, 12:47 AM
He won't be very provoked by that and in a CC setting is unlikely to do anything terribly rash at all. Good players don't panic when the other side starts blocking the board as it almost never fully works. Black can't block the q-side when White's pawns are so fluid and even if we could he would just play in the centre and on the open diagonal. What I really like about ...e5 is how much it messes up his pawn structure advantage, whether he takes it or not.

...b5 probably doesn't lose, but it keeps White with all his plusses intact. ...e5 seems roughly equal, although there is still the chance for someone to outplay the other in the endgame. He might not take it, but that's OK, that gives us a pawn island on e4/f4 to aim at on two half-open files.

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 07:18 AM
Get over it.

Jeo

I don't know your role on this board pal but on this particular thead we have been playing a game of chess under F_R rules. We have succeeded in staying on topic for 15+ pages over a couple of months.
Your comment is gratuituous and unhelpful. You have provoked usless thread divergence (including my post here). If you cannot behave on this particular thread then please stay away. This is a first and only warning for poor behaviour. A second offence will be reported to the board admin. to have your rights removed.

starter

skip to my lou
02-01-2004, 07:26 AM
Oh?!! Sorry, !!! Please dont get me banned!!!

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 07:28 AM
I accept criticism, if you are going to be reasonable. If you start childish name calling, and start posting utter [censored], it will be deleted.

Jeo

I notice that you have deleted my first post.
I did not indulge in name calling...your first criterion for deletion.
I did not post utter (censored)......your second criterion.

Can you please advise why my post was censored.

starter

skip to my lou
02-01-2004, 07:30 AM
I stopped moderating the ACF forums. Ask one of the moderators Kevin or Paul.

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 07:51 AM
I stopped moderating the ACF forums. Ask one of the moderators Kevin or Paul.

But Jeo

The censoring occurred while you were moderating. Only you know the criterion you used.
Please advise on what basis you censored my post.

starter

skip to my lou
02-01-2004, 08:00 AM
My dog did it when I was away from the computer.

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 08:16 AM
My dog did it when I was away from the computer.

Jeo

Thanks for disengaging.
And thanks for the refresher lesson on accountability for your actions.

starter

skip to my lou
02-01-2004, 08:38 AM
:rolleyes:

:D :D :D

PHAT
02-01-2004, 09:47 AM
He won't be very provoked by that and in a CC setting is unlikely to do anything terribly rash at all. Good players don't panic when the other side starts blocking the board as it almost never fully works. ...

What you are saying, then, is that we cannot stand our ground and force a draw. If this is the case, we should take the intiative and make white react to us. To this end:
...Kc7 (centralising the K isnearly always a good move when going into an endgame) then ...Rd8

We must be looking fairly equil with that:
4 opposing rooks on two semiopen files
whites pawns advanced a sum of 5 squares
black pawns advanced a sum of 5 squares
white has the longest diagonal
black K is one square closer to the centre

I vote ... Kc7

BTW, I concidered 0-0-0 then Kc7 which gives the same result.

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 09:54 AM
He won't be very provoked by that and in a CC setting is unlikely to do anything terribly rash at all. Good players don't panic when the other side starts blocking the board as it almost never fully works. ...


I vote ... Kc7

BTW, I concidered 0-0-0 then Kc7 which gives the same result.


Matt
Thanks for the analysis, and vote.
Kevin
I think you are firm on ... e5

ggray'
Are you voting on this new venue?

starter

PHAT
02-01-2004, 10:07 AM
Am I coc.ked up on this, but doesn't ...e6 lose us the pawn imediately by Rxc4 :?:

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 10:10 AM
Am I coc.ked up on this, but doesn't ...e6 lose us the pawn imediately by Rxc4 :?:

Matt
Kevin is proposing ...e5, not ...e6
starter

ps Was the full stop necessary?

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 10:27 AM
Am I coc.ked up on this, but doesn't ...e6 lose us the pawn imediately by Rxc4 :?:



ps Was the full stop necessary?


Dunno; let's test it



Well that got your post count up a bit. ((Till the next hack, or (censored) action by (censored))

Bill Gletsos
02-01-2004, 11:55 AM
Was that crap really necessary.

Just type the word properly.

If it comes up censored then you can always go back and edit the post and insert a .

Bill Gletsos
02-01-2004, 11:56 AM
Chess the clever sport.

I'm surprised how many times chessplayers go out of their way to show this to be a fallacy.

ursogr8
02-01-2004, 12:04 PM
Am I coc.ked up on this, but doesn't ...e6 lose us the pawn imediately by Rxc4 :?:

Matt
Kevin is proposing ...e5, not ...e6
starter


Matt
Are you re-considering ...e5.
?

starter

PHAT
02-01-2004, 12:26 PM
Am I coc.ked up on this, but doesn't ...e6 lose us the pawn imediately by Rxc4 :?:

Matt
Kevin is proposing ...e5, not ...e6
starter


Matt
Are you re-considering ...e5.
?

starter
No, I am voting for Kc7. You may have to flip a coin.

Kevin Bonham
02-01-2004, 12:57 PM
Give Garvin time to show up here, since ...e5 transposes into a line that was his idea I'm pretty sure he'll vote for it unless he comes up with something better. Matt, the idea of having a rook on a semi-open file is that you have the rook on the open side rather than sitting behind the pawn. :rolleyes: We have to be active here- with our K on c7 our P on c4 is an easy target for White's pieces as our rook would no longer be able to defend it. Our q-side would be easily undermined.

Matt, have you even looked through the ...e5 line Garvin posted to the end? You seem remarkably keen to vote against me, even picking moves that go against your normal inclination to do so.

PHAT
02-01-2004, 01:58 PM
Matt, have you even looked through the ...e5 line Garvin posted to the end? You seem remarkably keen to vote against me, even picking moves that go against your normal inclination to do so.
Actually I didn't have a "long hard look" at e5 because it looked to me like it is giving the f-file away for nothing. (...e5, fxe Rd8, white :?: Rxe5) is all I see making it an open file for white. If we go that way, then FFS lets walk our king up so that we can maybe fix and win white's e pawn.

Kevin Bonham
02-01-2004, 02:04 PM
It's not for nothing, it's for messing up their pawn structure, isolating their e-pawn (if they take), and stopping their B getting the big long diagonal. The f-file doesn't seem to matter very much in that line, they can't get in on f7 or f5, and R on f6 or f8+ generally don't do anything useful.

Garvinator
02-01-2004, 07:46 PM
sorry guys, i thought my vote as rather automatic since I was the one who proposed the line we are following #-o .

Yes i vote for e5.

Garvinator
02-01-2004, 07:48 PM
btw, who voted for a white win in this position [-X , if that was you starter tut tut :D

ursogr8
03-01-2004, 03:35 PM
btw, who voted for a white win in this position [-X , if that was you starter tut tut :D

I was just practicing, using a vote button, while waiting for you guys to get your act together ;)

White needs some think time because the mentor has the flu. Probably 1/2 day delay.

starter

Kevin Bonham
03-01-2004, 03:53 PM
Never any hurry. It's been an interesting game so far, though only a White win might prove anything in terms of the theory stuff we were talking about.

Can't lose really. If White beats us from here we'll get a great endgame lesson. :D

Garvinator
04-01-2004, 06:58 PM
when is the next move for white going up?

ursogr8
04-01-2004, 09:25 PM
when is the next move for white going up?

gg'y'y

The delay at this end is due to illness.
I will e-mail the troika when we can resume moves.

starter

Garvinator
04-01-2004, 09:31 PM
ok cool, can someone plz give me the game score again please? :(

ursogr8
05-01-2004, 07:08 AM
ok cool, can someone plz give me the game score again please? :(

g''''

See post 1 on page 1 of this thread created by Kevin.
Black has just played ...e5 subsequent to Kevin's diagram.

I will post the moves tonight.

starter

Garvinator
05-01-2004, 11:15 AM
its cool starter, I just wanted to check that the original position on the page 1 is still correct and that the only move to be added is e5 :D .

ursogr8
06-01-2004, 06:23 PM
ok cool, can someone plz give me the game score again please? :(

g''''

See post 1 on page 1 of this thread created by Kevin.
Black has just played ...e5 subsequent to Kevin's diagram.

I will post the moves tonight.

starter

hi troika

We are ready to resume play
White now plays 16. f x e5

starter

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 07:50 PM
It's actually move 17, isn't it.

...Re8 thanks. ...Rxf2 is too slow as White king gets to f4 and protects the e-pawns.

Garvinator
06-01-2004, 10:54 PM
Re8 thanks for me too.

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 11:01 PM
The black rook is currently on b8 not a8 as originally given in the diagram. I have just corrected this.

PHAT
06-01-2004, 11:26 PM
I vote with the othere ... Re8.

NOW, hear this. We are gonna walk our king to the centre double our rooks on the e file. We must take white's isolated e pawn.

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 11:38 PM
We'll get e5 back sooner or later no worries (if White is really obstructive we can get it back via ...R-c8-c5). Then indeed we want to see what pressure (if any) we can generate against e4. If White is not careful he may have issues with this pawn - especially if we can stop it moving further. I think it will move again though, and maybe get swapped for our d-pawn later on.

Garvinator
06-01-2004, 11:44 PM
so are we saying that decision time has arrived for white and then we shall react accordingly.

Kevin Bonham
06-01-2004, 11:56 PM
White has a few decisions to make soon. He may try to slow up our recapture of the pawn with Rfd2, he may try to bring his B out on h3, or he may just let us have the pawn without interference and set up pieces for what comes after. We might see 18.c3 next from White for instance. We have plenty of long term plans here - support or exchange off c4, get b-rook to more active square, shore up or move d7, get g6 and h7 onto dark squares to strengthen our bishop, and maybe work on their weakness on e4. We won't get all of those done, but these are things we can look at to consolidate this position.

ursogr8
07-01-2004, 09:13 AM
White has a few decisions to make soon. .

troika

I have passed your black ... Re8 onto the mentor's answering service.
Hoping for a response from him in a day or so.

I notice an additional vote on the poll at the front of the thread; directed towards Black. If you guys did indeed win :oops: you would need to start thinking of a proprietary name for the defence.

starter

ursogr8
07-01-2004, 11:04 AM
Get over it.

One day, yes. But for now, remember this; the old BB was commercial free. Now we have to look at stinking ads for stinking captialist pig products like Yahoo. :evil: .

Matt

Google is about to float some % of their stock. Have you got over your distaste for Yahoo?
And just why do you have a problem with advertising on the BB? Can't you just filter it out mentally?
This is a serious topic for those of us who have web-sites that are starting to attract significant traffic. Should we go commercial?

starter

PHAT
07-01-2004, 11:41 AM
Web site Advertising :

http://www.chesschat.org/viewtopic.php?p=2737#2737

ursogr8
08-01-2004, 05:05 PM
White has a few decisions to make soon. .

troika

I have passed your black ... 17. Re8 onto the mentor's answering service.
Hoping for a response from him in a day or so.

starter

Here we go, here we go, here go,
White plays
18. Bg2
and rejoices in the increase of the mobility coeffficient of his cleric.

Over to the voters.

starter

Kevin Bonham
08-01-2004, 05:24 PM
Makes sense.

18...Rxe5.

We could get Bh3 next, or Rf8+. Neither seems especially scary (d pawn is easy to defend) but we'll have to watch for any subtleties. Bf1 may be the idea as well.

PHAT
08-01-2004, 07:34 PM
No not ... Rxe5 because if 19. Bh3 we have to play 19. ... Rb7 then 20. Rfd2! It looks like we are battling.

Therefore, I implore that we castle. Thus, the rooks are connected and our King can start walking to the centre.

Garvinator
08-01-2004, 08:04 PM
I have a question related to this game, how on fritz 8 do i get to select this games starting position, what number is it? I get the 960 etc starting position,but cant find any way to be able to get this exact starting position.

If you go through position set up, then you lose fr castling rights.

Kevin Bonham
08-01-2004, 08:35 PM
No not ... Rxe5 because if 19. Bh3 we have to play 19. ... Rb7 then 20. Rfd2! It looks like we are battling. Therefore, I implore that we castle. Thus, the rooks are connected and our King can start walking to the centre.

Yes but after 0-0-0, 19.Bf1! is really serious trouble because our rooks can't defend on the c-file. 19...b5 20.a4! will eventually win a pawn on the q-side, and so will 19...c3 20.b3.

You're part-right though, 18...Rxe5 19.Bh3 Rb7 20.Rfd2! Re7 isn't going to be a walk in the park for us. What we'll need to do if they follow that line is play ...Be6 to try to get their B off the board, or at least off h3. If there are pins we'll probably need ...Ke8 to get that in.

White's last move was simple but strong - I feel like we're on the back foot again here.

Kevin Bonham
08-01-2004, 08:38 PM
I have a question related to this game, how on fritz 8 do i get to select this games starting position, what number is it? I get the 960 etc starting position,but cant find any way to be able to get this exact starting position.

Why do you want to? Keep track of the game, or for analysis? A computer on the team in this position would probably make things worse. :D

Garvinator
08-01-2004, 08:44 PM
I have a question related to this game, how on fritz 8 do i get to select this games starting position, what number is it? I get the 960 etc starting position,but cant find any way to be able to get this exact starting position.

Why do you want to? Keep track of the game, or for analysis? A computer on the team in this position would probably make things worse. :D
both lol, but also just to learn how to do new things. yes keeping track of the game helps too lol.

i wish someone would update the 1st page board to reflect the current game position :P

ursogr8
08-01-2004, 09:25 PM
[quote="ggrayggray"]
A computer on the team in this position would probably make things worse. :D

troika
Feel free to scale-up to a computer solution.
The mentor is just relying on Capa., Purdy, and Lasker principles; and they are probably out of date. ;)
starter

Kevin Bonham
08-01-2004, 09:43 PM
An ending like this is so murky, so strategic and so long-term - that's why it would be more like scaling down. It'll say a move's OK then five moves later it'll realise it can't save some pawn somewhere another five moves down the track. Don't know what F8 is like on endings though, haven't got it yet, but F6 would play this one at about 1600 strength.

Garvinator
08-01-2004, 10:07 PM
i dont think f8 is all that good on endings actually. i have had it in positions where you just sac bishop for pawn and the draw is a reality and it doesnt do it and doesnt see it.

i suspect that i may not have the ending tablebase properly installed or something because we are talking about basic ending stuff on my f8

ursogr8
09-01-2004, 07:20 AM
An ending like this is so murky, so strategic and so long-term - that's why it would be more like scaling down.
.

Uurh
I meant scale-up in the context that you would then have 4 votes instead of 3; and therefore must be better. ;) ;)
starter

ursogr8
09-01-2004, 07:25 AM
i dont think f8 is all that good on endings actually. i have had it in positions where you just sac bishop for pawn and the draw is a reality and it doesnt do it and doesnt see it.

i suspect that i may not have the ending tablebase properly installed or something because we are talking about basic ending stuff on my f8

'yg'
You have the casting vote at the moment if you select Matt's option, or if you select Kevin's option.
No hurry.
But the ball is in your court.
starter

PHAT
09-01-2004, 07:48 AM
Yes but after 0-0-0, 19.Bf1! is really serious trouble because our rooks can't defend on the c-file. 19...b5 20.a4! will eventually win a pawn on the q-side, and so will 19...c3 20.b3.


I cannot see how we lose a Q-side pawn. After ... b5, ... a6 ...Rxd5. Then we walk our king up to c6 and BAM BAM BAM with d5!!

We must have a seris of little plans to execute the big plan, which is to pinch a pawn while having our King centralised so that it can usher our extra pawn to promotion.

You know we need a plan.

Garvinator
09-01-2004, 12:36 PM
ok i just got nudged into giving my thoughts.

I am more in favour of Rxe5 but i see trouble ahead with both moves posted. I see in Rxe5 the potential of us going a pawn down in a SCB endgame.

that would leave white with three pawn islands to two and an isolated e pawn.

that being said, one defect in my opinion of 000 is that the rook cannot get to the c file easily if white plays Bf1 to attack the c pawn twice.

Therefore my vote is Rxe5

ursogr8
09-01-2004, 12:47 PM
ok i just got nudged into giving my thoughts.

I am more in favour of Rxe5 but i see trouble ahead with both moves posted. I see in Rxe5 the potential of us going a pawn down in a SCB endgame.

that would leave white with three pawn islands to two and an isolated e pawn.

that being said, one defect in my opinion of 000 is that the rook cannot get to the c file easily if white plays Bf1 to attack the c pawn twice.

Therefore my vote is Rxe5

Thanks troika

Matt,
They have reduced you on this move to ' "I told you so" rights'. Keep that torch alight though, there will be later moves.


I am off to the mentor with R x e5 for Black

starter

Kevin Bonham
09-01-2004, 02:26 PM
I cannot see how we lose a Q-side pawn. After ... b5, ... a6

White now plays 20.Rf6 attacking the a-pawn. Now if 20...Kb7, 21.Rdd6 overloads the a and d pawns. 20...Be6 leaves us a pawn down because the B obstructs ...Rxe5 long enough that White should be able to save e5 or else win one of the q-side pawns after taking on b5.


We must have a seris of little plans to execute the big plan, which is to pinch a pawn while having our King centralised so that it can usher our extra pawn to promotion.

You know we need a plan.

Yes, but the opponent is still allowed to move and if you go a pawn down in an SCB ending you are generally dead. (I once managed to get an SCB ending a pawn up where I was lost with best play but this sort of thing doesn't happen very often). We've got a bit of surviving to do first and our immediate plan has to be to neutralise this initiative White still has - we're not in a position to go hacking at their pawn at the moment, and won't be (if at all) for several moves.

I hope what gg says about us being likely to go a pawn down in an SCB anyway isn't true. If we do look like going a pawn down we must get the bishops off.

PHAT
09-01-2004, 03:49 PM
What is 'SCB'?

Garvinator
09-01-2004, 03:58 PM
same coloured bishop and ocb is opposite coloured bishop

ursogr8
12-01-2004, 09:42 AM
.Therefore my vote is Rxe5


I am off to the mentor with R x e5 for Black

starter

Troika
Back again with a peek-a-boo move for you.
White plays 19 Bh3.

What does it mean. Dunno; the mentor and I are corresponding by answering machine only at the moment.

Over to you.

starter

ursogr8
13-01-2004, 01:44 PM
.Therefore my vote is Rxe5


I am off to the mentor with R x e5 for Black

starter

Troika
White plays 19 Bh3.


Over to you.

starter

Troika, minus one.
Just nudging.
Or is that, j'adoube
starter

Kevin Bonham
13-01-2004, 03:16 PM
As expected. 19...Rb7 is forced as ...Re7 loses a pawn to Rf8+ followed by Rxb8.

Garvinator
13-01-2004, 06:44 PM
rb7

ursogr8
14-01-2004, 05:23 PM
As expected. 19...Rb7 is forced as ...Re7 loses a pawn to Rf8+ followed by Rxb8.

Troika (minus one)

The mentor has lodged a move on the answering service
White plays 20. Rfd2

Over to you two

starter

Kevin Bonham
14-01-2004, 05:38 PM
Garvin, what do you think of 20...c3 here? Looks quite strong to me because if 21.Rxd7+ Rxd7 22.Rxd7+ Ke8 White can't deal with Black's c-pawn while also avoiding ...Rh5 (hitting the B while it is guarding Rd7). Giving up the B for a pile of pawns won't work for White either- they're all isolated. If 21.bxc3 Be6 and after the B swap the doubled pawn is easily recovered.

If 20...c3 is no good we can play ...Re7.

Garvinator
15-01-2004, 01:03 AM
Garvin, what do you think of 20...c3 here? Looks quite strong to me because if 21.Rxd7+ Rxd7 22.Rxd7+ Ke8 White can't deal with Black's c-pawn while also avoiding ...Rh5 (hitting the B while it is guarding Rd7). Giving up the B for a pile of pawns won't work for White either- they're all isolated. If 21.bxc3 Be6 and after the B swap the doubled pawn is easily recovered.

If 20...c3 is no good we can play ...Re7.
agreed c3 for me too for reasons kevin has stated:)

Kevin Bonham
15-01-2004, 01:53 AM
Oh dear, it doesn't work after all.

20...c3??
21.Rxd7+ Rxd7
22.Rxd7 Ke8
23.b3! (of course) Rh5
24.Rxa7 Rxh3
25.Rb7 Rh5
26.Rxb6

which is actually quite an easy win for White - we can't stop him getting c3 and then he's got 3 connected passers for our bishop. Dammit, it was looking so good!

Garvin, I think we have to go back to 20...Re7. :(

Garvinator
15-01-2004, 02:03 AM
i hope to have something better than c3 lol by the middle of the day [-o<

Kevin Bonham
15-01-2004, 02:46 AM
...Re7 seems OK, it's just slow, we just have to go through a longwinded maneuver with ...Rc7 then ...Ke8 then ...Be6 before the pressure is released from our d-pawn. And there is still a bit of play left in the position after all that, but nothing that looks too scary.

Garvinator
15-01-2004, 03:19 AM
Oh dear, it doesn't work after all.

20...c3??
21.Rxd7+ Rxd7
22.Rxd7 Ke8
23.b3! (of course) Rh5
24.Rxa7 Rxh3
25.Rb7 Rh5
26.Rxb6

which is actually quite an easy win for White - we can't stop him getting c3 and then he's got 3 connected passers for our bishop. Dammit, it was looking so good!

Garvin, I think we have to go back to 20...Re7. :(

have a look at this as im not sure where to head with it though, after ke8
b3, what happens if we just snatch the e pawn with Rxe4?

Kevin Bonham
15-01-2004, 04:11 PM
I've looked at 23...Rxe4 in depth now - it's much less clear than I realised but I think white still wins -

After 23...Rxe4, this seems to be the main line -

24.Rxa7 and we're a pawn down so
24...Re1+
25.Bf1! (otherwise ...Rc1) Be6
26.Kf2 Rd1
27.Bd3 (27.Rxh7 is also interesting) Rd2+
28.Ke3 Rxh2
29.Rb7 Rg2 (best - otherwise White protects g-pawn with king)
30.Rxh7 and White is probably winning.

Garvinator
15-01-2004, 04:59 PM
I've looked at 23...Rxe4 in depth now - it's much less clear than I realised but I think white still wins -

After 23...Rxe4, this seems to be the main line -

24.Rxa7 and we're a pawn down so
24...Re1+
25.Bf1! (otherwise ...Rc1) Be6
26.Kf2 Rd1
27.Bd3 (27.Rxh7 is also interesting) Rd2+
28.Ke3 Rxh2
29.Rb7 Rg2 (best - otherwise White protects g-pawn with king)
30.Rxh7 and White is probably winning.

I agree with your assessment of this line as the c pawn is a goner i think.

but how about this line instead:

24... Re2
25. Ra8+ Kf7
26. Bf1 Rxc2
27. Bc4+ Ke7
28. Rxg8 Rg2+
29. Kxg2 c2
30. Rg7+ Kd6
31. Rb7 c1(q)
32. Rxb6+

Kevin Bonham
15-01-2004, 07:06 PM
Nice work Garvin!

I missed 24...Re2!

Also in that line look at 28...Rxa2! This draws, because while White is a whole bishop up, he can never move it without Black checking and queening, nor can he get his K off the back rank or the R off the c-file. :D So if it goes down that line we should have a safe draw in hand.

And 24.Rd3 and 24.Rc7 don't do much (we go get the a-pawn for the c-pawn in those) so it looks like 23....Rxe4 works.

So it now appears that 20...c3 is OK after all.

What do you think, should we give it a go?

Garvinator
15-01-2004, 07:13 PM
Nice work Garvin!

I missed 24...Re2!

Also in that line look at 28...Rxa2! This draws, because while White is a whole bishop up, he can never move it without Black checking and queening, nor can he get his K off the back rank or the R off the c-file. :D So if it goes down that line we should have a safe draw in hand.

And 24.Rd3 and 24.Rc7 don't do much (we go get the a-pawn for the c-pawn in those) so it looks like 23....Rxe4 works.

So it now appears that 20...c3 is OK after all.

What do you think, should we give it a go?

yes of course i think we should go down this line if we get that option, of course the end position of mine is not great,but i think it is a whole lot more unclear than the positions already discussed.

so yes my vote is for c3 unless you find a hole in the analysis soon.

Kevin Bonham
15-01-2004, 10:15 PM
starter, Garvin and I have also conferred about this by PM (as we think we may do more frequently while there are just two of us) and the previously rejected 20...c3 has received a clean bill of health, and is our move.

ursogr8
16-01-2004, 07:12 AM
starter, Garvin and I have also conferred about this by PM (as we think we may do more frequently while there are just two of us) and the previously rejected 20...c3 has received a clean bill of health, and is our move.

Thanks Kevin (and g'ag'y)

20. ...c3 it is, and I have referred it to the mentor.

Your analysis that has been appearing via the BB is not seen by the mentor as he is not computer-enabled. And my usual contact with him is just recorded phone moves. So, he is not seeing, nor hearing, your analysis.
I mention this for three reasons.
1 You can't 'lead' him astray by laying false trails; but given the troika is the most honourable aggregate threesome on the BB then this was unlikely anyway.
2 The rest of the patzers watching this are learning something, from your analysis, now that the position has reached NC. (And of course I have long argued that one can re-learn more NC opening principles by being presented with a F_R starting position).
3 Obviously this game and analysis will be published. (See much earlier post).
Therefore, we would like you to avoid PM as much as possible.

starter

Kevin Bonham
16-01-2004, 05:21 PM
I'll talk to Garvin about this - it was his idea to use PM, I'm really not fussy. Actually my PM inbox sometimes fills up very fast so there could be some risk of losing analysis if it was via PM.

We didn't add anything significant to what was already posted.

ursogr8
16-01-2004, 10:35 PM
starter, Garvin and I have also conferred about this by PM (as we think we may do more frequently while there are just two of us) and the previously rejected 20...c3 has received a clean bill of health, and is our move.

Ok, White is ready to move
21. b x c

It was a Club night tonight so the mentor discussed his thoughts with the lower ranks; One of whom irrverently remarked that white's 21 st reminded him of a song
"Get your pawns for nothing
And your chicks for free"
But I am too old to know which song it is?


starter

Chess Dad
16-01-2004, 10:45 PM
It was a Club night tonight so the mentor discussed his thoughts with the lower ranks; One of whom irrverently remarked that white's 21 st reminded him of a song
"Get your pawns for nothing
And your chicks for free"
But I am too old to know which song it is?

starter

Dire Straits- "Money for nothing"

Kevin Bonham
16-01-2004, 10:57 PM
One of whom irrverently remarked that white's 21 st reminded him of a song
"Get your pawns for nothing
And your chicks for free"

Ah yes, but Mr Knopfler now has a blister on his a-side pawn structure, and I don't think it will take us very long to pop it. A real shame not to get to use all our cool analysis of 21.Rxd7+, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Maybe your guy went and moved our refrigerators. :shock:

21...Be6 thanks. No guitar solos required. :-''

Garvinator
16-01-2004, 11:35 PM
damn kevin, all our novelties in Rxd7 just went down the toilet :( . oh well i agree Be6 thanks.

Kevin Bonham
17-01-2004, 01:04 AM
Must be about time for a position update.

3k4/pr1p3p/1p2b1p1/4r3/3RP3/2P3PB/P1PR3P/6K1 w - - 1 22

After 21...Be6.

This is now NC-equivalent as no castling rights remain.

ursogr8
17-01-2004, 07:23 AM
One of whom irrverently remarked that white's 21 st reminded him of a song
"Get your pawns for nothing
And your chicks for free"

Ah yes, but Mr Knopfler now has a blister on his a-side pawn structure, and I don't think it will take us very long to pop it. A real shame not to get to use all our cool analysis of 21.Rxd7+, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Maybe your guy went and moved our refrigerators. :shock:

21...Be6 thanks. No guitar solos required. :-''

Thanks guys
I must admit that I wouldn't have fractured the left-side pawns, nor would most of the by-standers last night watching the instruction.
BTW, the mentor's refrigerator is not computer-enabled, and I don't think he even has a colour TV.
Move to come later today.

Perhaps the observation of the by-stander re the line from the song was
"Get your porn for nothing , and your checks for free" :D

Hard to tell sometimes with accents.


starter

ursogr8
17-01-2004, 03:14 PM
damn kevin, all our novelties in Rxd7 just went down the toilet :( . oh well i agree Be6 thanks.

White plays 22. B x e6

Apparently now I have to go and read Purdy on end-games says the mentor.

starter

Garvinator
17-01-2004, 03:56 PM
damn kevin, all our novelties in Rxd7 just went down the toilet :( . oh well i agree Be6 thanks.

White plays 22. B x e6

Apparently now I have to go and read Purdy on end-games says the mentor.

starter

22. ... Rxe6 thanks

Kevin Bonham
17-01-2004, 05:02 PM
Same. Good to see those bishops off the board.

ursogr8
18-01-2004, 01:50 PM
Same. Good to see those bishops off the board.

Guys
White's 23 move follows the principle know from Gluzman junior coaching at Box Hill, viz "Improve the position of your worst-placed piece".

So we play
23. Kf2.

Over to you

starter

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2004, 07:51 PM
Along much the same lines I think we should play 23...Rc7. We need to put both rooks on the c-file so as to be ready to get our pawn back. White may just let it go or he may try to obstruct it for a while by playing R2d3 with the threat of Rxd7. But so long as we don't make any dumb pawn moves we will still get it back. Probably we will want to play ...Rc7, ....Rec6 and then ...Ke8 so that Rxd7 if it happens will not be check and therefore it should not be possible for White to set it up to win a pawn.

Garvinator
18-01-2004, 07:56 PM
Along much the same lines I think we should play 23...Rc7. We need to put both rooks on the c-file so as to be ready to get our pawn back. White may just let it go or he may try to obstruct it for a while by playing R2d3 with the threat of Rxd7. But so long as we don't make any dumb pawn moves we will still get it back. Probably we will want to play ...Rc7, ....Rec6 and then ...Ke8 so that Rxd7 if it happens will not be check and therefore it should not be possible for White to set it up to win a pawn.

to me the options are Rc7 or Ke7,but they end up in the same line anyways, so much so that maybe we could hurry this game along a bit in terms of the line :D .

I give ... Rc7, R2d3 Ke7, Ke3 and then we can talk some more about this during the next couple of days.

this move order can be played with Ke7 first.

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2004, 08:15 PM
In some lines we might want ...Ke8 instead of ...Ke7 because after ...Ke7, if we take the c-pawn, Rxd7 is check. For instance if it goes like this:

...Rc7
24.R2d3 Rec6
25.Ke3 Ke7
26.h3 (for instance) now we cannot take the pawn just yet.

In that position 25...Ke8 does allow us to take the pawn next time.

Looking at it though it is an open question whether we want to get the pawn back right away or centralise our king and wait. Some tricky decisions but we should be OK. Have to watch the pure-pawn endings very carefully as many of the pure pawn endings possible from here are wins for one side or other - but this can be avoided by keeping Rs on.

Garvinator
18-01-2004, 08:27 PM
well then we are in agreement for Rc7 and then we can 'argue' over Ke8 or Ke7 in the next couple of days :D

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2004, 10:32 PM
Yes, we'll sort something out depending on what they do in the meantime.

I'll be away Wednesday-Friday so may be a bit slow responding later in the week.

Garvinator
18-01-2004, 10:34 PM
Yes, we'll sort something out depending on what they do in the meantime.

I'll be away Wednesday-Friday so may be a bit slow responding later in the week.

ok understood, one question though, you seem to have your heart set on leaving the d pawn on d7, i have thoughts of advancing it to d6 at some stage. Of course d1 would be good too 8) :D

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2004, 10:44 PM
If we don't get to take White's c-pawn (I've looked at lines where White guards his c-pawns and we go for counterplay on the f-file) then it would be good to get that pawn up to d6. The other (more straightforward and hence drawish for both sides) alternative is swapoffs where we take both c-pawns and they take our d-pawn.

Are you thinking possibly ...Ke7 next without even playing ...Rec6 first?

Garvinator
18-01-2004, 10:49 PM
Are you thinking possibly ...Ke7 next without even playing ...Rec6 first?

yes i am, that is a possibility. that is why i was looking at Ke7 then d6 maybe, as i said see what mentor does first.

looking back maybe mentor didnt like b3 or saw Rxe5 and didnt like the fate that awaited him with Re2 :o ;)

Kevin Bonham
18-01-2004, 11:33 PM
There were a lot of complications in that line. With White you could not really be certain of not losing if you went down that road unless you had looked at it in enormous depth.

Yes ...Ke7 next is one idea. Need to see White's next move first, he has a lot of options here. Also we need to start thinking long-term about whether we can stand having a rook tied to the defence of a pawn.

ursogr8
19-01-2004, 06:21 PM
well then we are in agreement for Rc7 and then we can 'argue' over Ke8 or Ke7 in the next couple of days :D

White's 24th (I think that is the right number).

24. R2d3 and then we offer a draw.

Over to your think-time guys.

starter

Garvinator
19-01-2004, 06:27 PM
well then we are in agreement for Rc7 and then we can 'argue' over Ke8 or Ke7 in the next couple of days :D

White's 24th (I think that is the right number).

24. R2d3 and then we offer a draw.

Over to your think-time guys.

starter

right when Kevin is about to go away too lol

ursogr8
19-01-2004, 06:40 PM
well then we are in agreement for Rc7 and then we can 'argue' over Ke8 or Ke7 in the next couple of days :D

White's 24th (I think that is the right number).

24. R2d3 and then we offer a draw.

Over to your think-time guys.

starter

right when Kevin is about to go away too lol

Well, it is like this g'gray
> the protocol is that the draw can offered according to the following etiquette table
1 World champion
2 Previous Tournament champion
3 Pawn ahead
4 Others
And I think White qualifys.

>> timing is everything in chess said RJF.

No hurry. Take your time.

starter

Kevin Bonham
19-01-2004, 08:18 PM
Sure knows how to time a draw offer, doesn't he? :shock:

Oh well, see if we can come to a decision by tomorrow night.

Right back at the start of all this, White proposed 2.Nb3 and I said I didn't like it and that 2...b6 should neutralise it, which really started all this. A 24-move draw could be taken as a clear moral victory for Black on this score except that I feel both that White left sharper chances on the cutting room floor and also that we may have made some inaccuracies in the opening. Had Garvin not come along with ...e5 line, which we then discovered worked in a range of positions, I think we would have gone down the gurgler.

If we aim directly to recapture the pawn as quickly as we can, the most likely line is one reaching an endgame something like this: (White to move)

4k3/p6p/1p4p1/8/4P3/P2RK1PP/2r5/8 w - - 1 29

I'm no expert but this sort of thing looks drawn barring major errors.

If we decide to stay a pawn down, maybe trying to generate play on the f-file, it's hard to say what happens. I cannot see serious winning chances. Basically the only way to do it seems to be: push ...d6 and ...g5, play ...Rd7, ...Kd8, ...Kc7 and then the rook currently on c7 is free. But it's pointless, their king can hide easily (eg they can play Rd5 and put their king on d4). So I don't see any serious winning chances with that sort of idea either. If we sit around and do nothing we risk losing.

I'm inclined to take the draw, but let's have a bit more of a think first and see if we can come up with any kind of concrete plan with winning chances. Actually in an OTB game I would play on here with Black, but people make bigger mistakes in those.

Another thing: what should we do about our absent team-mate? Matt probably thinks draws are worth -2 points or should be, and will probably recommend 24...Rxc3 or something, but if we do decide to accept the draw should we at least give him a chance to talk us out of it? :D

ursogr8
19-01-2004, 09:35 PM
Sure knows how to time a draw offer, doesn't he? :shock:

Oh well, see if we can come to a decision by tomorrow night.

Right back at the start of all this, White proposed 2.Nb3 and I said I didn't like it and that 2...b6 should neutralise it, which really started all this. A 24-move draw could be taken as a clear moral victory for Black on this score


At BH (and I think it was coined by John Lavery), a moral victory is called the ‘Clayton’s victory’. You know > the victory you are having when you are not having a victory.





I'm inclined to take the draw, but let's have a bit more of a think first and see if we can come up with any kind of concrete plan with winning chances. Actually in an OTB game I would play on here with Black, but people make bigger mistakes in those.

Another thing: what should we do about our absent team-mate?



It is a tough world. He understands that. Just remember his quotes about disciplining kids.
So, out-vote him.
Or get Jeo to tell him to get over it.


Sure knows how to time a draw offer, doesn't he? :shock:

Matt probably thinks draws are worth -2 points or should be, and will probably recommend 24...Rxc3 or something, but if we do decide to accept the draw should we at least give him a chance to talk us out of it? :D


Tick, tick tick.



starter

Kevin Bonham
19-01-2004, 10:07 PM
At BH (and I think it was coined by John Lavery), a moral victory is called the ‘Clayton’s victory’. You know > the victory you are having when you are not having a victory.

Yes, and generally I'm as cynical about that as the above, or more so. I remember once beating someone from a position that was drawish but advantageous to him, and he said "I think I had a moral victory there, I could have offered you a draw but I thought I should play for a result." I just said "well, what are you complaining about? You got one." :D

However in NC opening theory it's assumed white has the FMA and therefore a reasonably rapid neutralisation for Black is considered a good result.

Waiting to see what Garvin has to say.

Garvinator
19-01-2004, 10:42 PM
Waiting to see what Garvin has to say.

I would like to play on. I agree that this would probably be drawn, but i dont think it is dead drawn yet and im just enjoying playing this.

So that being said, now for some analysis.

Im still a fan of Ke7

so ...Ke7

Ke3 d6
h4 h6
Ra4 Re5
a3 Rec5
Kd4 Ke6
c4 Rf7

I think one factor also is that for a while now we have had a small advantage in analysis.

Kevin Bonham
19-01-2004, 11:18 PM
Why would White play those moves though - by playing a3, Ra4, and c4 he has basically shut his rook out of the equation for no real purpose I can fathom, except holding a pawn he'd be better off giving away? Is the "small advantage" on computer - if so how much is it, anything less than 0.3 either way doesn't mean a thing as a general rule.

Garvinator
19-01-2004, 11:25 PM
well what are you suggesting then?

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2004, 12:49 AM
It's interesting actually, I'm starting to see the point of why White plays Ra4. Namely that if he doesn't Black can get ...Rc5-a5 in which gives White some bother. Need to look at this in a fair bit more detail to think about whether we should play on, there is a little bit of play for us on the a-side if we do the ...Ke7/...d6 thing. If we play on I agree that ...Ke7 is looking best.

Garvinator
20-01-2004, 12:52 AM
It's interesting actually, I'm starting to see the point of why White plays Ra4. Namely that if he doesn't Black can get ...Rc5-a5 in which gives White some bother. Need to look at this in a fair bit more detail to think about whether we should play on, there is a little bit of play for us on the a-side if we do the ...Ke7/...d6 thing. If we play on I agree that ...Ke7 is looking best.

interesting :D i was just starting to think about agreeing the draw. Do we really have hopes on winning this? I dont think so. So the best we can really do is a draw, so we might as well take it now, but just as i was thinking that, you raise the possibility of playing on 8).

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2004, 12:57 AM
I only want to have a look at it for a bit. There is an effort factor in these things, I'd only want to play on if there were serious chances. Usually when I get a draw offer over the board and I think I'm going to accept it, I then remember that I can accept any time I like, so I can afford to use up time thinking "are there really no serious winning chances here?"

I'm still in favour of accepting the draw, but I want to give it the final "so is White hiding anything" check over.

I reckon I'll vote in the evening sometime.

Garvinator
20-01-2004, 01:06 AM
what happens if one of us says take the draw and the other votes to play on :shock:

ursogr8
20-01-2004, 07:12 AM
what happens if one of us says take the draw and the other votes to play on :shock:

hi g'g'y'y

We had this discussion point earlier. It is a valid question.

Then, I asked if you wanted me (i.e white) to
a) manage how to make your decisions,or
b) make your decisions for you.
When I phrased the question that way, Black decided to look after himself.

starter

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2004, 08:21 PM
I'll consider playing on if Garvin really wants to, but I reckon take the draw. It's only a friendly game really and the present but very slim chance of winning doesn't really justify the effort of playing on.

Garvinator
20-01-2004, 08:24 PM
draw agreed

Kevin Bonham
20-01-2004, 08:52 PM
OK, starter it looks like Black's 24th is

24...Draw Agreed, and thank White for the game. :D

Let the post-mortem commence.

ursogr8
21-01-2004, 07:03 AM
OK, starter it looks like Black's 24th is

24...Draw Agreed, and thank White for the game. :D

Let the post-mortem commence.

Thanks Kevin, Matt, Garvin, aka troika.

=D> is about the only emoticon I could find that gets close to a handshake.

From our end we certainly enjoyed the contest.
I will work back through the old posts for a week to see what I can distill as a summary post. Then get your reaction. Finally, merge all thoughts into some article.
At a high summary level, the mentor and I gained a significant step forward on the primary objective; vis, what principles to follow when opening in F-R. So a big thanks for the adversary you provided; it made the mentor think and enjoy.

starter

Garvinator
26-01-2004, 10:14 PM
Thanks Kevin, Matt, Garvin, aka troika.

=D> is about the only emoticon I could find that gets close to a handshake.

From our end we certainly enjoyed the contest.
I will work back through the old posts for a week to see what I can distill as a summary post. Then get your reaction. Finally, merge all thoughts into some article.
At a high summary level, the mentor and I gained a significant step forward on the primary objective; vis, what principles to follow when opening in F-R. So a big thanks for the adversary you provided; it made the mentor think and enjoy.

starter
so what happened to the piles of post mortem analysis:(. I was hoping to here if he found our special prize during the game

ursogr8
27-01-2004, 07:19 AM
so what happened to the piles of post mortem analysis:(. I was hoping to here if he found our special prize during the game

ra'gg'y

I went elsewhere on the week-end. :cool:
Read
http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=5866#post5866

starter

Garvinator
27-01-2004, 11:18 AM
ra'gg'y

I went elsewhere on the week-end. :cool:
Read
http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?p=5866#post5866

starter
you were at mcc i already know from the other thread :cool:

ursogr8
11-02-2004, 12:10 PM
so what happened to the piles of post mortem analysis:(. I was hoping to here if he found our special prize during the game


gg''yy

I did not offer a post-mortem analysis of the game move-by-move.

What I did offer, and will deliver, is a summary of the principles of opening (that are applicable to normal chess) re-discovered and re-phrased as a result of playing a game from a F_R postion.
In fact, the white player had very little analysis to conduct in the rather short game that eventuated. I think Black's analysis was far deeper and intensive.

Since watching 'the mentor' explain the principles I have played in three rated games (normal chess). My rating has improved a net 10 points (using Barry's wonderful, super, glicko calculator at http://home.bcox.id.au/modules.php?name=Glicko_Calc).

Is this statistically significant? Could F_R principles do this for you?

starter

Kevin Bonham
11-02-2004, 05:14 PM
Is this statistically significant?

No.


Could F_R principles do this for you?


Possibly. Especially if the openings were not mainstream.

By the way, I'm probably going to write up the game for "The Poisoned Pawn" (a Hobart International CC newsletter that serves as a de-facto state chess newsletter) when it next comes out of hiding a few months down the track. Will post a draft here for comments if this goes ahead.

ursogr8
11-02-2004, 06:10 PM
Possibly. Especially if the openings were not mainstream.

By the way, I'm probably going to write up the game for "The Poisoned Pawn" (a Hobart International CC newsletter that serves as a de-facto state chess newsletter) when it next comes out of hiding a few months down the track. Will post a draft here for comments if this goes ahead.

Openings were
Leningrad Dutch (black)
Vienna (white)
Blackmar Diemer (black)

ursogr8
21-10-2004, 06:01 PM
A pleasant examination of the good parts and not-so-good parts of Fischer Random now available >

.
http://chesscafe.com/fromarchive/fromarchive.htm
.
.
.
.

starter

Garvinator
21-10-2004, 06:03 PM
A pleasant examination of the good parts and not-so-good parts of Fischer Random now available >

at Chess Cafe this week (http://)
.
.
.
.
.
i attempted to look at the chess cafe article and got url is not valid and cannot be loaded.

ursogr8
21-10-2004, 06:05 PM
^^
Got too cute it looks like.
So how about the amended one?

Bill Gletsos
21-10-2004, 06:06 PM
http://chesscafe.com/fromarchive/fromarchive.htm works fine.

ursogr8
21-10-2004, 06:08 PM
http://chesscafe.com/fromarchive/fromarchive.htm works fine.

Thanks Bill
And leads to a good read too. ;)
starter

Kevin Bonham
21-10-2004, 10:56 PM
By the way, I'm probably going to write up the game for "The Poisoned Pawn" (a Hobart International CC newsletter that serves as a de-facto state chess newsletter) when it next comes out of hiding a few months down the track. Will post a draft here for comments if this goes ahead.

Unfortunately said newsletter has been in a more prolonged hibernation so this has not occurred.

ursogr8
23-01-2005, 08:54 PM
The start of this thread contained a game played on this BB from a Fischer_Random position. Is anyone able to put it on a display board (on the bb) using K.'s functionality?

ursogr8
13-10-2005, 08:14 PM
The start of this thread contained a game played on this BB from a Fischer_Random position. Is anyone able to put it on a display board (on the bb) using K.'s functionality?

Bump ttt

ursogr8
24-10-2005, 07:25 AM
Some talk around the traps that a VIC Big Wheel is considering proposing a new Fischer_Random tournament next year (2006). The rumour I listened to contained musing as to whether it would fit best with Summer Interclub (resurrected) or just a straight new Victorian title event.
starter

ursogr8
19-01-2006, 03:46 PM
Received overnight

Hi starter,
Article on Fischer Random came up in The Scotsman overnight. You might be interested in reading it.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=83742006

Cheers,
Sleepy

Dozy
20-01-2006, 07:30 AM
Received overnight

Hi starter,
Article on Fischer Random came up in The Scotsman overnight. You might be interested in reading it.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=83742006

Cheers,
SleepyLOL :-)

Must admit, Starter, I was mystified by your PM until I saw this.

Actually it's kinda nice. "Dozy" has some pejorative connotations (much like the Japanese "mijikai ita ni mai" meaning "two short planks") whereas "Sleepy" is much kinder.

Maybe I should consider a name change...

ursogr8
11-06-2006, 03:06 PM
Star #1
From the purveyor of the recognised truth
"How could one just go cold turkey on chess?


Star #2
From our most esteemed reasonable poster >



I haven't been a real chess player for 5 years


well yeah.. I only ever played for fun


I didn't *love* the game enough to study it and improve


Star #3

You are on just about the best thread around.
Who needs to study when every F_R game starts from a new opening.



Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. :rolleyes:
Sometimes the stars are hidden by the tree canopy. :cool:





starter


ps.............Oh the excitement of something new.
When did the bb witness !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! appearing after a new second move, eh possums?

Arrogant-One
11-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Openings were
Leningrad Dutch (black)
Vienna (white)
Blackmar Diemer (black)

The Leningrad Dutch is such a brilliant opening. When I studied chess I knew this opening even better than some Grandmasters. Especially the 8.) ... Qe8 variation.

Its just beautiful.

four four two
11-06-2006, 04:48 PM
The Leningrad Dutch is such a brilliant opening. When I studied chess I knew this opening even better than some Grandmasters Especially the 8.) ... Qe8 variation.

Its just beautiful.

:lol: :rolleyes: :whistle:

ursogr8
11-06-2006, 07:58 PM
The stars are in alignment.


Star #1
From the purveyor of the recognised truth
"How could one just go cold turkey on chess?


Star #2
From our most esteemed reasonable poster >



I haven't been a real chess player for 5 years


well yeah.. I only ever played for fun


I didn't *love* the game enough to study it and improve


Star #3

You are on just about the best thread around.
Who needs to study when every F_R game starts from a new opening.



Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. :rolleyes:
Sometimes the stars are hidden by the tree canopy. :cool:





starter


ps.............Oh the excitement of something new.
When did the bb witness !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! appearing after a new second move, eh possums?

Just think...in F_R there would be a new opening named each week.