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jensenusn
04-01-2005, 01:01 PM
Hello,
My name is John and Im currently producing a short film involving a chess match between two Polish mafia leaders.
What I need is a diagram of a game that involves a standard opening with no captures untill there is significant field position by both players, first capture should be black knight x white pawn.
Middlegame should involve white knight or white bishop x black pawn, white castling, maybe a queen trade, black knight x white bishop, any piece x black knight.
The endgame is more important to the plot. The two opponents are not masters, they would probably just be considered "good" players. One of them (black), is a confident, aggressive player who believes from the begining that he is going to win. In the endgame, there is a shot of the board, and then a superimposed image of the pieces some 5-10 moves ahead (or whatever is realistic). What he sees is a position that he believes will mate his opponent shortly after. The end of the film is that through a move that black did not forsee, white actually wins the game with a mate, preferably involving his knight or king (with one knight still present). The game is not a complete bloodbath, there should still be several pawns and a few other power pieces still on the board.
The model game does not have to be perfect, as you will not see the whole game in the film. I just need a model so that when we shoot the shots that actually show the board, there should be a natural progression in the game.
The film is an independent project being produced through Colubia College Chicago film school and we have already completed principal photography, but I need your help to get it done.
As this is an independent project with no budget, all I can offer those who submit the model used is credit in the film, and a copy once its completed.
It's being shot on 16mm film and should turn out great; it will most likely be making its way around to festivals this spring.
Thankyou all for your help.
- John Jensen
Writer/Director/Producer

jensenusn
05-01-2005, 09:53 AM
Have I come to the wrong place for this advice? Maybe someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks.
- John

Ian Rout
05-01-2005, 10:31 AM
Did anybody have any thoughts? The first thing is to decide on an opening since the subsequent positions have to arise legally and plausibly from that opening.

The stipulation that the first capture is ...NxP limits the options since Black is not recapturing, and White shouldn't be blundering a pawn (he isn't a beginner). Hence Black is sacrificing a N, or White is sacrificing a pawn, or there is an indirect pawn swap.

First thoughts on each of these

- the French Tarrasch with f4 where Black sacrifices with ...Nxe5

- the Semi-Slav with 7.g4 Nxg4 (but is that too early in the game; on the other hand there is plenty of opportunity for jockeying/dialogue because it could be reached by transposition e.g. from an English or Reti.

- some sort of reverse Benoni with b4, Ncxb4 (Nf3xe5) - haven't quite thought that through

jensenusn
05-01-2005, 10:54 AM
Excellent suggestions. Unfortuneately Im a fairly inexperienced player (relative to this site or an average chess club), but I simply love the game. I would have to research to even know what those style openings imply or involve. Due to my inexperience Im also very slow to visualize the algebraic language of chess moves.
I think an indirect pawn swap would be plausible, but I think maybe a black recapture of the knight would be better (indirect knight swap?).
Ultimately I hope to have a plausible opening, middle, and endgame, complete with visual aids buy this Friday. It may be asking alot, but Im sure someone knows of a game that was played, maybe even one of there own, that would fit the needs of the script. I believe there are even programs that can convert the algebra to visual.
Once again, only brief moments of the game will be seen, but there should be a natural progression nonetheless, so I might as well model a real game; but it doesnt have to be complex.
Thanks for your help thus far Ian.
All are welcome to email me with any questions.

frogmogdog
05-01-2005, 01:31 PM
hi john
i just came up with a game with help from fritz.

i've got it as a .cbh file at present. got to go to work now but could email to you tonight if you're interested.

it starts
e4 e5
Nf3 Nc6
Bc4 Nf6
Nc3 Bb4
0-0 0-0
Nd5 Nxe4

i think everything more or less happens as you want but the endgame is a bit of a grind, 66 moves before white mates with knight.

jensenusn
05-01-2005, 02:56 PM
Awsome! I cant wait to see it. Im not familiar with the various game file types, do I need a program to convert to visual? I know there are some available, it would help alot on set to have the quick reference. Feel free to email me at goldbricker81@yahoo.com and we'll talk more. Thanks.

Ian Rout
05-01-2005, 04:54 PM
One difficulty that will arise in trying to have a spectacular finish which meets the requirement of including a Knight is trying to fit in all the requirements of the earlier stages; there are unlikely to be many or any real games with all those characteristics, or have prosaic ends. To get around this you could just not try Ė as proposed in the original note, after a time lapse the position has arisen, provided itís compatible with the previous positions.

I donít think it matters that it isnít known what the intervening moves were Ė if the film becomes a cult classic then chess players will spend hours making them up.

One way to make a film a chess cult classic is to include a position from a Tony Miles game so hereís one with a Knight:

White: Kg4, Qc8, Rb8, Nd5, Pe4,g3,h5

Black: Kg8, Qd6, Rf1, Nf8, Pb3,f7,g7,h6

Black has seen 1.Rb3 Qe5 and has also seen the moves actually played 1.Qxf8+ Qxf8 2.Ne7+ Kh7 3.Rxf8 b2.

What he has not seen is 4.Ng6!! when he has to resign as he loses his Rook or gets mated.

The winning position seen by Black could be either after Öb2 or at the start of the above sequence Ė the lead-up could be doctored so long as the correct finish is achieved.

Incidentally 3ÖRe1 is a better (probably inadequate) defence but thatís another story and not very good for a film.

Rincewind
05-01-2005, 05:49 PM
One way to make a film a chess cult classic is to include a position from a Tony Miles game...

...and avoid those of John Nunn? (see Blakes 7 thread).

frogmogdog
05-01-2005, 06:29 PM
haven't tried uploading pgn before but hopefully this will work.

i'm afraid there's nothing prosaic here, and it's not as good as Queeg vs Holly in red dwarf.

but i think it meets your requirements regarding captures at certain times and there's a king and knight mate.

if you don't mind fudging the final position you could always arrange black's pawns so one queens before the knight mates.

black could also have a mating fantasies at move 29 that white might play the more aggressive but dodgy Qb8+.

Event: ?
Site: ?
Date: 2005.01.05
Round: ?
White: w
Black: b
Result: 1-0
ECO: C55
PlyCount: 131
EventDate: 2005.01.05
SourceDate: 2005.01.05

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. O-O O-O 6. Nd5 Nxe4 7. d3 Nf6 8.
Nxb4 Nxb4 9. Nxe5 d6 10. Qd2 a5 11. a3 Nbd5 12. Nf3 Nb6 13. Ba2 Be6 14. Re1
Bxa2 15. Rxa2 Re8 16. Ra1 a4 17. Rxe8+ Qxe8 18. Qg5 Qe6 19. Be3 Nbd5 20. Re1 h6
21. Qh4 Nxe3 22. fxe3 c5 23. Qf4 d5 24. Qc7 Qc6 25. Qf4 b5 26. e4 dxe4 27. dxe4
Re8 28. c4 Rxe4 29. Rxe4 (29. Qb8+ Kh7 30. Qxb5 Rxe1+ 31. Nxe1 Qe4 32. Nf3 Ng4
33. Kf1 Qd3+ 34. Ke1 Qe3+ 35. Kd1 Nf2+ 36. Kc2 Qd3+ 37. Kc1 Qd1#) 29... Qxe4
30. Qxe4 Nxe4 31. cxb5 Nd6 32. b6 Kf8 33. Nd2 Ke8 34. Ne4 Nb7 35. Nc3 Kd7 36.
Nxa4 c4 37. Kf2 Kc6 38. Ke3 Na5 39. Kd4 h5 40. Nc3 Kxb6 41. Ne4 Kc6 42. a4 h4
43. Nd2 Kc7 44. Nxc4 Nb3+ 45. Kc3 Nc5 46. a5 Kc6 47. b4 Ne4+ 48. Kd3 Nf2+ 49.
Ke3 Ng4+ 50. Kd4 Nf6 51. Na3 Nh5 52. b5+ Kb7 53. Nc4 Nf4 54. Nd6+ Ka7 55. b6+
Ka6 56. b7 Ka7 57. a6 Ne6+ 58. Kc4 Kb8 59. Nb5 h3 60. g4 g6 61. Kd5 Nd8 62. Kc5
f5 63. Kb6 Nxb7 64. axb7 fxg4 65. Nd4 g3 66. Nc6# (66. hxg3 h2 67. g4 h1=Q) 1-0

Spiny Norman
05-01-2005, 07:48 PM
One way to make a film a chess cult classic is to include a position from a Tony Miles game so hereís one with a Knight:

For those like me that need the visuals:

1.Qxf8+ Qxf8 2.Ne7+ Kh7 3.Rxf8 b2 4.Ng6!!

Alan Shore
05-01-2005, 07:53 PM
i'm afraid there's nothing prosaic here, and it's not as good as Queeg vs Holly in red dwarf.

Do you have that game?

'Double check and mate, sucka!'

jensenusn
06-01-2005, 09:55 AM
Awsome work. Those games will work swell. I dig that Tony Miles ending too, I may use that. Anyone know of a good utility that can capture and print the PGN files?

arosar
06-01-2005, 10:04 AM
Notepad.

AR

jensenusn
13-01-2005, 11:31 AM
Ok guys, Im shooting the table top stuff tommorrow. The rest of the shoots have gone pretty well. What I meant in my previous post was a program that displays the pgn file as a visual (just like the viewer on this page), but would allow me to print out the picture, preferably several moves on each page. I wont need to print put a visual of every move, just a few. Anybody know of a (free) program like this?

Rincewind
13-01-2005, 11:35 AM
Ok guys, Im shooting the table top stuff tommorrow. The rest of the shoots have gone pretty well. What I meant in my previous post was a program that displays the pgn file as a visual (just like the viewer on this page), but would allow me to print out the picture, preferably several moves on each page. I wont need to print put a visual of every move, just a few. Anybody know of a (free) program like this?

I like SCID. You can check it out on http://scid.sourceforge.net/

jensenusn
13-01-2005, 05:08 PM
Can I cut and paste (or make BMPs and open in paintbrush) the image of the board positions so I can have a quick reference with SCID?

Rincewind
13-01-2005, 05:49 PM
Can I cut and paste (or make BMPs and open in paintbrush) the image of the board positions so I can have a quick reference with SCID?

You can do nicer things if you are familiar with LaTeX. But lets assume you are not. Then with SCID as the active window press Alt-Print Screen and go into Paint and press Ctrl-V. I think that is what you are after.

In SCID you change board colours and piece styles via the Options menu.

Hope this helps.